Guild Wars 2

Ricky.4706:

i play solo, but i’d rather be called a roamer, because I join up with anyone anywhere so I’m never really solo.

Thanks for your term “roamer”. A roamer is never lonely, and never demanding. Haha. Always ready to help a fallen roamer. Perfect social model for an mmorpg, imho.

Colin, the launch content of GW2 was the best ever for me as a player who began playing Gemstone 3 on GEnie ages ago. lol. My son, who is a few years younger than you, looks like a twin to you, except only 6 feet tall. So yes, you have a special place in my mind.

Reading your post quoted in this thread made me realize your passion in game development. I will look for any future project you may be involved in. GW2 was my dream mmorpg at launch. I haven’t played it lately due to what I see as a change in direction.

But I will follow you, and try any game you do in the future! Take care!

GW2 + Minecraft development tool for PvP, WvW, PvE + app monetization.

I’d be dancing so much I’ll end up falling into an ocean from a cliff.

Brother Grimm.5176:

I have actually speculated since Megaserver release that doing HARD mode zones was one of the MAIN reasons Megaserver was introduced (to reduce the number of active zones, so they could basically double the number actually being used and STILL potentially have less active zones than the pre-Megaserver system).

/like this speculation.

The original GW2 zones are beautiful, and too good to be only played once.

When HoT comes out, it may be interesting if the mega server system will provide a way to send level 80 players who have completed a zone to another version of the zone where their stats will be reduced, events will progress a bit into the future, and upon completing the new version, they are one step closer to a precursor.

In short, part of the mastery system.

Just a fleeting fantasy… I haven’t thought thru this at all. But your speculation is very interesting to me.

[Edit add: Forgot to say some level 80 players may complain they can no longer go to the same instance as their lower level friends. .. well more QA work lol.] Not a topic for this thread of course. Just fun to echo your speculation. Later!

Duke Blackrose.4981:

(Did you have a stroke while typing that last paragraph?)

Oh yeah, very true. Doh! Got too excited. I’ll be even more excited if Cantha came out as an expansion.

Very interesting to read everyone’s comments so far. I’m going to watch the video you linked, Conncept. TY.

From what I can see, many changes (such as mega server, NPE) are revenue risks due to mega server being hardship to some player community, NPE dismantling immersion.

Community and immersion were original GW2 visions. I believe those great visions should be kept up, rather than eroded.

One suggestion: Instead of mega server, NPE, GW2 may do better to develop a new race or 3 that will meet Chinese folklore themes. Such as 1) Chinese mythology, 2) middle age Chinese history, 3) Chinese martial arts and/or swordsman fantasy figures. New professions can be more kungfu/Chinese swordsman based.

Make those beautiful swordsmen. Lean and mean kungfu boxers, even (Japanese) ninja/assassin. No WoW kungfu panda. :P Oh ok cute panda race if you want. :P WoW panda toons look dumb though to me. Your mileage may vary!

Really, NPE is such a destructive move to GW2 that sometimes I have a fleeting fantasy it’s a mole working on bringing GW2 down; then I shake my head and say to myself, “No, can’t be.”

At the same time, I do feel time is of essence. If ANet doesn’t do anything about NPE and some other things, another dev team will come along— Ideas such as dynamic event will be done; beautiful zones can be done; a better economy system can be done; and NPE won’t be there to kill immersion. It can end up too late for GW2 to claim a throne in being the “Iphone” of mmorpgs.

Exp sharing among players who hit a mob is already copied by LOTRO.

EQ came out in 1999. WoW 5 years later, in 2004. Once a model is known, it’s a lot easier to do another version of it. GW2 has been out since 2012. Even though its ideas were at the forefront, it won’t be hard for another game to copy the good parts and create new territory. If that should happen, I will still think fondly of Anet, who pioneered the future.

I guess I was sort of in love with ANet for the manifesto. Unfortunately that seems to be gone, lost somewhere between NPE and grinding.

Somehow I’m not too hopeful NPE will be erased. So, take care everyone. We can always keep on dreaming. :p (ok, for the people who disagree, change that to I can always keep on dreaming. :p)

Thanks Shadow. I don’t really like to argue semantics, which Vayne seems to like to do.

Hopefully my post just prior to yours explains my view. To me, GW2 can be to mmorpgs what Iphone was to the cell phone industry.

NPE to me is just one of the things happening that is detrimental to the original Anet vision.

It’s not too late yet, but it will take a lot of work. Good luck to ANet.

Posts deleted. Never should have answered Vayne on this tangent. ;p

I’m actually playing this game to sightsee. Loots do present a hassle for me.

NPE was probably the result from NCSoft eyeing China release. Someone probably feverishly measured the minute of stay by new Chinese players, and decided NPE would help the Chinese players who are used to mmorpgs with reward pop-up windows.

But 4th quarter GW2 revenue actually dropped despite China release.

What actually happened in 4th quarter that caused the revenue to drop despite China release?

NPE was introduced near the start of the quarter.

Does NCSoft or ANet really have an idea why revenue dropped?

I was one of the players that was oblivious at the time. I was playing my high level characters while my bud was complaining bitterly about NPE. He then quit entirely.

Little did I know how I would change my mind once I actually experienced it. Yes, being treated like a 6-year-old, being told, “You can’t go to the park because you’re only 6-years old.”

From 4th quarter revenue data, do Chinese players seem to be impressed?

I’m actually playing new toons happily now. When life hands me a lemon, I tend to make lemon juice. As much as I hate NPE, I made a game out of the reward window, which used to get me angry. Now I’m actually happy looking at it as it pops.

Secret is: I now play new alts with a specific tiny challenge mode. I would not buy any gear nor craft any, simply using the reward window items as my only upgrade in gear.

I happily walk around, treating this NPE as a new challenge for me to level up while no longer buying any gear.

Whereas in the past I had dropped a lot of $ into gem exchange for gold to support farmers because I don’t have time to grind. To me, the business model of a FTP game is based on having both farmers and real players co-exist.

We who trade for gold with gems are supporting farmers. In fact I don’t mind at all to support farmers. To me, they played next to me in GW2 and I did not have to compete against them because all nodes were shared, etc., all excellent measures by ANet. I never held a grudge toward farmers at all. In fact, I encouraged my best bud to play as a farmer. He’s handicapped, has a ton of time to play and very little income.

But now?… more and more I see this game is heading toward financial failure. Even my bud, who has very little money, is no longer playing this game.

While NCSoft may be going over spreadsheets that showed potential earnings with their measures— what they did not measure is how much revenue they stood losing.

Players like me, who used to see it as my mission to support farmers in this game because 1) They are not all heartless. Many are nice people. 2) They can help populate the zones, and as we do dynamic events, etc, we couldn’t tell who were the farmers anyway.

Now though, I’m starting to see I was wrong, as I wander around, I can spot massive organized farmers who would not lift a finger to rez someone not in their organization. Oops so many stories to tell, and I don’t want to go off topic. So let me wrap this up:

NPE failed in its purpose of generating revenue. Instead, it potentially created a loss in revenue in 4th quarter.

Sorry to say, it’s making me see NCSoft in the same light I had always held. I would never buy its stocks. There are probably others out there like me. So, here is another failure in NCSoft’s attempt in attracting investors. Some of us are playing this game.

NPE, with its pop-up reward boxes making the game into one of “loot-happy” games that the market is filled with. (chuckles) I guess this is why some of us do not like it.

NPE was not what one would expect with the manifesto.

Just now though, it came to me that NPE is like the corrupted roots sent out by Mordremoth. I’ve been trying to evaluate the HoT expansion. Something about it just reminds me of the Mordremoth. (Can I help it when I keep seeing the videos?) It’s almost symbolic. This game, in the direction it is heading, is already showing signs of Mordremoth taking control.

lol. my analogy of the day. :P

The reason behind all this is marketing. Revenue demands. Idealism needs a strong implementation to keep up with revenue demands. NPE is not such a strong implementation. It’s a patch. It is instead detrimental in the long run to the vision.

BlueOcean.5380:

Ashendale.2165:

naiasonod.9265:

[sic]

After reading your post I had the urge to bawl while hugging you while stabbing these people in the eye with a mechanical pencil.

I feel like printing your post on a stone slab and bashing them in the head with it.

Can’t stop chuckling at this one, dude. Cute, man.

To Ashendale:

Ok I’m going to use the word “love”. I loved your statement, and that was why I kept chuckling in admiration of your courage in actually using the word “bawl”. That’s pretty brave for a guy. I had a hard time to even say “cute”. lol. You said well. You pointed out the grief I should be having, but I hadn’t even sensed it yet.

I just read all of your old posts in this thread, and remember clicking “like” on many of them. I realize now you have been wanting to play new alts, but can not stomach the NPE so you can’t do it. You had tried to get friends in to play under NPE, yet they all left after a short time. I can relate in that my old bud left this game upon NPE to play EQ2, which is probably going to shut down.

I watched the GW2 manifesto videos again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35BPhT-KI1E

Guess my first alarm came when devs made all world boss events on a timer. This was a deliberate choice.

NPE sent out even more warnings to us.

Whatever you do, please know I have the utmost respect for you. Take care.

Ashendale.2165:

naiasonod.9265:

[sic]

After reading your post I had the urge to bawl while hugging you while stabbing these people in the eye with a mechanical pencil.

I feel like printing your post on a stone slab and bashing them in the head with it.

Can’t stop chuckling at this one, dude. Cute, man.

You just made me realize something.

The whole thing that bothers me about this NPE is a sense that the game has changed direction that made me both sad and alarmed. It is a sign where the original GW2 vision statement is starting to fade, and monetization is rising.

In the last week or so I had been reading up on what happened to SoE as it was sold to an investment company that is reputed to be a shell-and-sell entity, and the looming demise to all SoE games.

I remembered the many years of EQ’s decline. A lot of it came from management’s monetization schemes. As it stands right now, I can see GW2’s monetization, and it is not nearly as bad as EQ’s, but…

It is just sad to see monetization is detrimental to the game’s original vision.

I think GW2 is under a lot of pressure to drive revenue up. It may very well succeed in its monetization. Time will tell. But I do feel there are many other ways to generate revenue as I evaluate this game today. Sadly those are not being taken. Oh well. Maybe the next game will have it.

I’m having fun in this game as a bit player, one that you see running around newbie zones. I am happy because players like me are no longer a targeted playerbase by this game.

In the past I used to feel a compulsion to donate to the game, like buying a ton of stuff that I don’t really need. Now I’m happily letting their target player base pay the bills. I’m sure NCSoft, in its many spreadsheets, already figured out their monetization to derive revenue from their targeted player base, and it is the one I am being forced to accept anyway.

Hope you have fun doing whatever that is fun for you.

After many years of EQ, in the end I found the smartest players there were the ones that belonged to a tiny RP guild that spent all their time in newbie zones. I was dumb, man! Was I dumb!

To Rashy and others in this thread: Of course I don’t mean to lump you in the same vein as the person above. Not all arcade crowd are like that. But I do feel there tend to be more. Hope you all have fun.

BrunoBRS.5178:

BlueOcean.5380:

BilboBaggins.5620:

Argue the finer details all you want, for me it’s as simple as this;

ArenaNet realized that underwater “endurance” was a bad idea and players didn’t like it so they removed it and we have aquabreathers. So what makes them think people are going to like this same antiquated mechanic up in the air?

It’s no different. You can’t get to places you’re not meant to get to, this is isolated to this map and any future maps they make to take advantage of flying. Updrafts and the mastery to use them could be used to gate aerial waypoints without using endurance. The current dodge mechanic could be used for aerial combat (if any) instead of endurance.

Antiquated, boring, frustrating, poor design.

I agree 100%. I’d rather see aerial combat with unlimited duration flights. Graphically it can be interesting seeing multiple fire elementals at various altitudes, and being able to fly in 3D in combat, just like underwater.

The ultimate fantasy for players in a flight game is to be like Superman. Who ever heard of Superman having endurance bar?

The gliding/flying in HoT appears to be another form of “jumping puzzle” in the form of “gliding puzzle”. It can get old fast when people need to go to champion fights.

yeah, you’re playing the wrong game. this isn’t a superman simulator, and gliding isn’t meant to be a combat tool (or a flying tool for that matter).

see, the problem is that people “would rather see” things that make no sense in GW2. ANet was like “wouldn’t it be cool if we could glide around?”, and people have reacted with “i never thought of that! yeah, i’d love to glide in GW2! you know what i’d love more? if you redid the whole game from scratch to enable 3D movement and aerial combat so i can live my medieval fantasy superman dream in an MMO without playing Aion!”.

i mean, where the hell did you even come from with that idea? were you playing GW2 for the past few years, annoyed that you couldn’t just fly everywhere and punch birds in mid air? what part of GW2 even hinted at air combat being the future? even gliding came so out of the left field it caught everyone by surprise, and the only thing it’ll be used for is moving from A to B, and yet people are freaking out as if they were betrayed because they can’t divebomb dragons.

BlueOcean.5380:

At this moment I feel it is too late for this expansion to change.

Unfortunately, this can kill another segment of the player base, who will no longer be here when aerial combat may be the future. Especially if they need to work through gliding puzzles in the HoT expansion to get there.

i also love the “hey ANet, listen to me, i’m not saying this for my own interest’s sake, i’m thinking about the best interests of the game and the company! PLAYERS WILL LEAVE IF YOU DON’T DO WHAT I SAY!” approach. it’s such a silly attempt at guilt tripping the company into siding with you. yeah, the nonexistent “bought GW2 because i like ace combat” player base will die. such a shame.

Wow, tirade mode. Actually I believe GW2’s intention is to support the arcade player base. Had written a nice post to you but decided to delete it because I didn’t feel like talking to someone like you. At this, I can see the type of player this game will be attracting, and frankly I’m happy to leave you to your dream. :p Have fun dude.

At this moment I feel it is too late for this expansion to change.

Unfortunately, this can kill another segment of the player base, who will no longer be here when aerial combat may be the future. Especially if they need to work through gliding puzzles in the HoT expansion to get there.

BilboBaggins.5620:

Argue the finer details all you want, for me it’s as simple as this;

ArenaNet realized that underwater “endurance” was a bad idea and players didn’t like it so they removed it and we have aquabreathers. So what makes them think people are going to like this same antiquated mechanic up in the air?

It’s no different. You can’t get to places you’re not meant to get to, this is isolated to this map and any future maps they make to take advantage of flying. Updrafts and the mastery to use them could be used to gate aerial waypoints without using endurance. The current dodge mechanic could be used for aerial combat (if any) instead of endurance.

Antiquated, boring, frustrating, poor design.

I agree 100%. I’d rather see aerial combat with unlimited duration flights. Graphically it can be interesting seeing multiple fire elementals at various altitudes, and being able to fly in 3D in combat, just like underwater.

The ultimate fantasy for players in a flight game is to be like Superman. Who ever heard of Superman having endurance bar?

The gliding/flying in HoT appears to be another form of “jumping puzzle” in the form of “gliding puzzle”. It can get old fast when people need to go to champion fights.

Wonder if GW2 will have flight improvement gear. Check out 4 tiers of armor for flight time, and another 4 tiers for speed improvement, plus jewelry, flight accessories, food, potion, scrolls, etc. as had been done in Aion.

We may never get another tier of armor above Ascended, but will we end up needing to switch ascended armor sets to fly and then to do combat?

http://gameguide.na.aiononline.com/aion/Improving+Flight

Hope devs will let us know prior to launch.

Rashy.4165:

Luckily for us, NCSoft doesn’t have anything to do with GW2’s development.

Seen these situations at work. Hierarchy matters when upper management drives revenue goals. I am not saying this is the case here. But I’m taking a watch and see stance for now.

If I see GW2 flying to be just like Aion’s, that will tell me something.

Rashy.4165:

It’s a Korean MMO which really didn’t have much place in North America. Takes WoW’s gear grind to the next level.

This is one of the features that was introduced in a recent expansion: only the top ranked PvP player (only one) could purchase the best possible PvP gear. The person who got that rank was usually fed PvP points (called Abyss points) from other players/guildies to get to that point.

I would place Aion as an example of what not to do, EVER, in an MMO.

^^ NCSoft developed Aion. This is why I’m concerned. Just going into watch mode for now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCSOFT

Kantos.1730:

I cheered when gliding was introduced. I groaned when I read about the attached endurance meter. Flying endurance is not fun. It never has been.

Where did you read this?

I had imagined hang gliding and flying will be similar to Aspects. Was looking forward to that. But if this is indeed Aion style…

Look at the difference between Aion flight simulatoon game vs. GW2 aspects:

http://gameguide.na.aiononline.com/aion/Flight

Not interested in flight simulation game.

I do wish you all fun for those who like it. But for those who don’t, like me, it will likely spell the end of GW2 for us.

I just saw this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NCSOFT

Also check out this if you are interested:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ArenaNet

The passionate debate on a forum means very little in the large scheme of things. As a devoted mmorpg fan, I’ve been through lots of ups and downs. (wry chuckle). Life goes on. I’m only going to play any game for the fun in however limited way I get out of it. In the end we are all just players in a very large market of “player base” companies seek. A few threads on a forum mean nada to the big companies. :p

Anyway, have fun when you all can. I just got the best reward the other day for helping a newbie. He sent me this in whisper as his farewell message:

Laugh your cares away.
Worry for another day.
Let the music play.

(It beats any gear to me. :p I have it on my desk and look at it, and smile each day.)
Take care you all, and have fun.

Zietlogik.6208:

I am trying to lead a few friends through the starter zones and I feel I might lose them from the game at the current rate.

My old bud left his alt at level 2 since NPE, and has not returned. His last comment was: “Where is the ranger pet control window?” I said “It’ll pop at level 5”. He never leveled his ranger up to level 3. He’s the type that just quits, without a single word. He drops in just to write in-game mail to tell me his family is doing fine, and he’s having fun in EQ2.

All these problems make me realize the future of GW2 may be in danger. This is the major reason I’m no longer investing in this game. I’m finishing up my last alt. But do not wish to spend more time, nor money until I see things improve. There is no point building up an alt army, nor a guild hall, if one day the game is going to nowhere.

(Sorry for yet another post. :P Later.)

Tachenon.5270:

After recently playing some new characters through the premiere NPE’d levels, here are some things

Excellent post. QA dream post!

On another note. The new player reward offerings seem to be from a designer grasping for straws to have enough reward items to fill those pop-up boxes.

For me as a player it was very unappetizing to see that at certain levels, whoa, (surprise, and not in a good way) suddenly I get 8 skill points. What did I do to suddenly deserve 8 skill points? It felt like a gamemaster with god-complex in a table top game who grins at his group of players and says, "NOW you get 8 skill points! Hhahah am I not generous?!?:

Other levels, whoa? My god-complex gamemaster decides I get trait points.

I much prefer the past when we got regular skill point, trait point. It felt like a cohesive system that rewarded players in a traditional sense of level-progression. It felt smooth, and I as a player could plan and daydream about how I was going to obtain my next big skill, that I wanted to get, or my next trait skill.

Now, I can’t even remember at what level I’ll be “granted” a flood of skill points. I’d need to check wiki to just figure it out. And the news is not good there. I need to wait a long long time. And, as some players have pointed out, my skill slot is already open, yet I can’t fill it with anything for another several levels due to the fact that my god-complex gm has not even granted him his bundle of skill points yet.

Wonderful… mutter mutter.

If this were a tabletop game, I wonder how many players will keep attending the sessions. I feel the award curve is uneven, and many things are put there just so the NPE change program can have something to fill the reward box.

Taking a deep breath.. so long for now. (Still playing the game, but sitting back on forum.)

I’m just glad these days I’m playing totally independently. I ignore the daily events. Wish there is a way I can get rid of that list from my UI. I play in off beat zones, having a grand time. I have 80, maybe more, alts, but the current alt is the last I’m leveling to 80. The other 67 or so will remain untouched. After that I plan to just goof and never buy gems again. I’m not sure if this will help the game’s revenue, but it’s not my choice to make. It’s the god-complex gm’s choice.

P.S. One thing I forgot to address is the New Dailies’s role in creating pain for new players in their NPE.

In the past players were free to roam to any racial zone to complete their daily events. This was healthy for the game because it naturally spread the player population out to support many zones in the game. It is a good mechanism when the game intends to keep all zones viable for entertainment.

Now, with a single, designated zone for the 4-event, whenever the event is in a newbie zone, it’s a sad day for all newbies. They get to watch veteran players dominate the zone.

When the event is in a level too high for newbies, they are forced to do fractal, PvP, or WvW when some of them may not enjoy those activities at all. Is this the NPE we want?

Things like these: 1) new daily events, 2) champ train nerf, 3) mega server, 4) trait change, etc. all have caused problems. They seem to be patches to fix something that is of concern to the company regarding a part of the game, of which we as players can’t be sure why. But without thinking through all the QA factors, and the impact on the original vision of the game, … one can find the game in trouble, losing all of its original elements that had made it an outstanding, revolutionary game.

Now the game actually makes me hurt to see we are sinking to the level of 100 other FTP games with pop-up reward window that comes out of nowhere, not nearly as meaningful as the first dynamic raid in which we all got a beautiful chest floating on the side.

Now new players are getting that pop-up box they need to drag and destroy many items, while feeling the power of all old players knocking them down at each forced-zone daily event. This turns the game into one where players dread daily events in their starting zone.

Deep structure cohesion takes careful maintenance. You can not do it just once via great design, then ignore them as if they will last forever.

Sorry if come across harsh. Due to my love for this game, I was actually in pain watching how this game is deteriorated by these careless measures.. Now I hope something will be done to address deep issues that stemmed from many careless moves.

Thank you, and I hope we will all see GW2 glow in the future. I certainly do!

Astral Projections.7320:

Maybe bring back the champs in the starter zones but only have them drop level 8-20, rare, account bound gear. Something that the people leveling would value but level 80s would have no use for. This should stop the high levels from farming the champs while encouraging the low levels to try to kill them.

Thanks for your idea. I know we are just throwing out ideas. There are many fine-tuning steps that need to be taken over details of any change. For example, what happens if we don’t have enough newbie players to fill a newbie server? We may have enough to fill 2 servers, but the 3rd may lack numbers.

If that should happen, we may wish we had veteran players to fill the gap.

Another idea is a change should still accommodate veteran players to fight side-by-side, perhaps via nerfing their current dps more as they join a newbie zone. They will then face as much danger as the rest of the newbies, and only can do as much damage as the rest of the newbies. But for that sacrifice, they will earn all level 75- 80 gear, be it white, blue, green, yellow, orange. Including dragonite ore.

If we did something like that, we won’t even need to worry about newbie servers. It’ll just be a standard server.

Part of me is not too thrilled at the idea of having my level 80 to still struggle in a newbie zone. I’m sure others may feel the same way about their veteran level 80 characters. Yet, there are times I feel I miss the old, hard champion fights. Every time I go to Harathi, I miss the 4 am champ fights we used to do at the champ events there. Back then we died left and right. Now I can’t believe how easy that fight has become. :P

Before people start casting stones at me for suggesting we should nerf level 80 characters and their ascended/exotic gear advantage in newbie zones, maybe I should go running and ducking.. :P

Cough, cough.

Without knowing the real internal reason on why GW2 has been going through champ train nerf, NPE, trait changes. mega server .. it’s been very puzzling to me. I have no idea what is really behind the scene to require all these changes.

All I can feel is: things do not look cohesive to me. It feels like there is a lack of QA. I also don’t like the idea of getting rewards that I have to drag and destroy. It breaks immersion, and is a sign of unpolished mechanism to me.

I don’t know what’s going on. So all I can say now is: please think QA, please think immersion. Best wishes. I do wish to still play GW2 10 years from now and be proud of this game as I was during beta.

If you build it they will come. Take care everyone.

I think ANet should first of all re-examine the way champs in newbie zones were nerfed out of existence. Was that really necessary to fix the champ train syndrome? What are the better alternatives to keep the Champ-quality Raid available for newbies, and yet prevent veteran players from dominating those newbie zone dynamic events?

One idea (I have not thought this through at all, so it can be a really bad idea!) comes to mind is make the champ event occurrence random, rather than time-based. Another idea is, perhaps in mega-event server algorithm, add something so that lower level characters can elect to be placed on the “newbie” mega server, away from high level characters intrusion. This "newbie’ mega server is not available to high level characters. It’s for NPE experience.

An existing account’s lowbie character, though, may choose this “newbie” mega server.

( I had posted in another thread to suggest “play style choice” such as “Light RP”, “Lore RP”, “Combat Academy”, in mega server selection. This is in the same vein of that “play style choice”.)

In case a new player has an old friend who is level 80 that wants to join him, then they will both be placed on normal server, where the friend can certainly help, but this won’t bother other new players.

I hope all newbies forever can have the NPE we beta players had.

[part 2 of long post]
Something went wrong. To me it started with the champ train. Initially the train seemed benign, especially for my weak messer. I was in Queensdale having a good time leveling up my alt messer on the train, when I heard new players asking what was the train? They never saw any of the champs because the champs died quickly. Some of us told them to go to certain waypoints to catch the train. (But you know what? I know their experience was not the same. There was no longer life and death struggles. They were just riding in a train where veteran players killed every champ, and they got credit. The fights were no longer life vs. death, fun team cooperation. Just a grind.)

Then there came a nerf to champ train so that there are most champs became vets in newbie zones. Part of me saw why the champ train was nerfed. Part of me missed the Queensdale witty chat from RP players. That fun social died with the train’s death. I didn’t really react much to the nerf. Even when a friend of mine was very upset at NPE, I told him it’s just a short stage we go through, and no biggie.

But now I realize something…

Now the new players don’t even get to see the floating chest as much. They don’t get to wander and be surprised by the champ event. They hear it announced on the map channel. 2 min till Maw! They think to themselves, “What Maw?” They follow instruction to get there. The NPE has less wonder to it, more “follow the veteran players”. They feel they are just a tiny newbie. In a big world, and the first impression of this big world is: “It’s not living, breathing, as much as be there at a certain hour and minute.” Then try to do enough dps to get credit.

They are at the receiving end of older players’ mercy when it comes to being rezzed. They don’t get to be a hero till much later.

I don’t think they get the same thrill as we beta player got: that this is a hugely fun dynamic event game where you will no longer deal with raiding guild politics. You can raid any time and have fun helping your fellow adventurers.

In beta days we players all worked as a team in PvE. That is another ANet vision. They want players to be happy to see other players. Not worry about node fights, loot fights.

That floating chest, shows newbie players they each have their own floating chest. They attend an impromptu raid and can have instant team cooperation for the thrill of fun, without DKP, forced online time, etc. What a revolutionary approach to the tired old raid system.

That, was my NPE experience, that got me so hyped I was spinning for days, and looked forward to GW2 launch with a fever.

Now my level 17 ranger, as he attempted daily events, felt sad when level 80s showed up. It meant he’ll likely have to find another event. The thing is, he’s in a level 1-15 zone. I can’t imagine what life is for a real newbie who may only be level 12. The event was around level 12.

Solution? I do have some vague ideas. But I just need to get this off my chest first. Pardon me for a long post here. Part 3 will be shorter.

I’ve been thinking of my own NPE way back on the day of the first beta session. It was the, best, day, of my life for a long long long time in Mmorpg gaming.

I remember the first time I got that shiny chest floating on the right-side of my screen. I was probably level 7. At 3 am me and around 45 other players cooperated and beat that champion troll in Queensdale. The fight was difficult. Many of us died, and we rezzed each other. There was one character named “I Am Your Grandpa”. When he died we all rushed to rez grandpa. lol lol. It was a blast when we finally killed the troll. Everyone stood around cheering for a min. Grandpa even thanked my character by name for rezzing him. I felt like we were at the start of a great community about to venture together into a future of shining chests after killing a huge, dangerous champion. I knew in my gut there would be a lot more champion fights. I couldn’t wait to do it more as the beta closed. Then I spent the next weeks going in a buzz, waiting for the next beta.

In each beta people cried when timer came up and it was time to log off. Dev came on once to announce we’d get an extra hour, and many cheered on the map channel for that announcement.

This, was our NPE. Those of us who were lucky to start in beta.

This, was ANet’s original vision. That tough troll champion fight where players were drawn together in a battle of life and death. Where we were rewarded by a floating chest that we could open after our cheers. Even if we were still busy rezzing grandpa.

lol. What a memorable night that was. Now I feel sad for the new players. Their NPE is no longer that caliber. They don’t have many champion fights in their newbie zone anymore. They have level 80 players in ascended gear killing dynamic event vet mobs in 2 seconds, and their puny damage ends with no credit. (I know this for a fact because I had sent my level 17 ranger to Metrica for a 4-event daily, and he could not get credit. As mobs ran forward, 4 at a time in one event, all the mobs were vaporized before he can do enough damage to get credit.)
[part 1 of long post]

Re: Post I made—

Suggestion to improve immersion in NPE:

Instead of the current pop-up window which knocks out immersion—

have a quaggan materialize next to the player with a gift box in hand in a magical light.

Quaggan introduces himself as a peaceful race from the sea that has been attacked often by Kraits, and is happy to see player advancing in skills. He indicates the gift box is from the quaggans for friends.

The Quaggan hopes to one day see the player again in the ocean.

At the same time, an in-game mail appears. Player can click on it and see the gift content. For e.g., a potion, or quaggan-tradtiional food, that will grant skill points, traits, in addition to weapons, armor, etc.

This way when the player finally sees quaggans at their homes, it will bring an arc to a completion. At that time the player may hand in old weapons, armors to any quaggan NPC.

The quaggan will reply: “Thank you for bringing this back. Perhaps we can help a bit more”. The reward for tuning in this armor/weapon can be an exp booster.

I can already think of one QA item that needs to be addressed: (likely more)

When will this quaggan show up? What if the player is in the middle of a combat? Will the quaggan end up talking while the player is busy fighting? Imho, there are multiple ways to handle it that will not break player immersion.

Our current “reward box” pops up frequently mid combat. In the middle of a heated battle with 3 evils, I get a “reward box” that blocks my view of the battle. Another immersion breaking problem.

I really liked the vanilla GW2 where the interface of a reward chest—a beautiful chest at that—floats at the right side of the screen, waiting if the player is busy, enticing the players eye. Whenever that chest comes up on the side, it gave me a feeling I in a beautiful world where riches abound. It made me smile.

That was ANet’s product, based on ANet’s vision.

These days, I do feel a lot of that vision is being dismantled. Care has not be taken with many changes in the game. Including mega-server, when people are having to taxi, when in the middle of wandering around we get a pop up telling us an option to move to another instance.

I’m frustrated at all the things that are making GW2 looking to be a lesser-grade product. The pop-up reward box, and pop-up server change option, are only 2 things that come to mind atm. There are more.

I sincerely hope the QA department will take a stronger inspection on all new changes, to ensure none of it intrudes on immersion.

Immersion is the #1 factor in giving players fun. We play to escape to another world.

Take care, and may the gods of Tyria bless you, ANet original devs. You have a wonderful vision. I’m sincerely impressed with GW2 (ANet vision.) It hurts me to watch it being eroded.

Please think QA, think immersion.

My favorite part of the announcement. It tells me the game is planning to hook us with fun.

Suggestion to improve immersion in NPE:

Instead of the current pop-up window which knocks out immersion—

have a quaggan materialize next to the player with a gift box in hand in a magical light.

Quaggan introduces himself as a peaceful race from the sea that has been attacked often by Kraits, and is happy to see player advancing in skills. He indicates the gift box is from the quaggans for friends.

The Quaggan hopes to one day see the player again in the ocean.

At the same time, an in-game mail appears. Player can click on it and see the gift content. For e.g., a potion, or quaggan-tradtiional food, that will grant skill points, traits, in addition to weapons, armor, etc.

This way when the player finally sees quaggans at their homes, it will bring an arc to a completion. At that time the player may hand in old weapons, armors to any quaggan NPC.

The quaggan will reply: “Thank you for bringing this back. Perhaps we can help a bit more”. The reward for tuning in this armor/weapon can be an exp booster.

Vayne.8563:

Yes, I think the word myopic applies here. How ironic.

You are entitled to your opinion, sir.

The reason I’d be firing that individual is A) He(she) has to be in a managerial position to approve this change. Not just a newly trained employee. I have no place in my company for myopic mangers. I don’t want to spend my time looking after their mistakes.

The best thing that can be done for the NPE is to hit a revert button, go back to the pristine version. Although I’m not sure if NCSoft has the balls to do so.

Nilkemia.8507:

The New Player Experience patch was a ruinous pile of level gating and scrambling of the late Personal Story chapters. The compass part is seemingly the only good part — every other part could’ve been removed. Between this and the trait patch that they bungled, early leveling isn’t fun at all now.

“Ruinous pile” is the best phrase I’ve seen on this forum to describe NPE.

Frankly if I were the CEO at NCsoft I’d be getting on the phone to find the person responsible, and canning the person who pulled this stunt

It reduced an elegant game to a genre dime-a-dozen FTP with childish “reward” window that looks cheap. Instead of coming into a game world of faraway fantasy, I’m bombarded with this psudo reward, feeling it’s like a “candy” treat to get me to even respond. Mmm, my goal in an RPG is to learn, to feel I’m challenged, to step into a world of wander. Not to be handed “candies”. In the starting days of GW2, under ANet’s vision, what I saw was a world of beauty and wonder. Now I feel I’m reading a cheap romance, starting on page one with some “enticement”. If I want dime store stuff, I’ll go to 100 other FTP games online.

On top of it, the rewards are full of items that are not salvageable, so players need to drag to destroy. So you give candy to players, then expect them to labor to get rid of it.

Ok… I’d be calling the QA dept. Shouldn’t the disposal of these items be a bit more interesting than that? Make the game a world people can sink into, not one of pop-ups?

Like, players may get a quest to turn in the reward to an army officer at his racial city and learn more about how his turning in his old sword can help younger recruits.

It was ANet’s goal to make this a world of living, breathing fantasy where people will always feel they are in-character. I see this NPE is full of “let’s get the player excited about pop up reward”, “let’s have them drag it to destroy it for our in-game economy.”

Meanwhile, ANet’s vision is utterly being torn apart.

Sigh. If you hope GW2 will become a unforgetable chapter in MMORPG history, as I felt it could be, then don’t do things like this to tear it down, to bring it down to the level of all the cheap FTP games out there.

I’m pretty furious right now. Yes, if I were the CEO I’d be canning people atm.

I truly wish NCSoft will stop meddling with ANet’s vision. Doing so will only result in NCSoft losing a good product, and it will have nobody to blame but itself.

There was a comment somewhere on this forum that NPE was due to some study based on the number of minutes a new player stayed in game prior to logging off. (chuckle)

Tell me one great literature was written with this idea to “keep a reader to read for 2 minutes longer”.

The vision of ANet is gone.

True that, Enoah. I had fun last night wandering around Dredgehaunt. These days I make sure to go to places that are NOT on daily achievements. Without yielding to “being told what to do”. I’m having a grand time.

To be completely honest, the posts I’ve written in this topic so far is when I wear my optimistic hat. I understand if OP chooses not to return. I myself am just trying to give this game a chance atm. There are signs I do not like in the newest direction of this game. Mostly it’s a whole lot of QA issues. When changes are made, it is pretty obvious the changes were driven by shallow management vision, likely from NCSoft. I feel sad for ANet at this point. Hoping they can salvage the negative turns. Enough said.

Well I did “invest” in GW2. Now I regret it. :P Holding further investment till I see better signs.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Welcome to NPE (New Player Experience). And if you hate it, know you’re not alone. There’s an army of us here.

^^^ What that guy said.

Many of us are wondering what is going on at Arenanet. It seems like the guy making the decisions doesn’t play the game or just doesn’t play MMO games in general.

What’s going on is: NCSoft mismangement. I saw it happen to Aion Online. During the first weeks of Aion launch I was up playing at 3 am and the map chat was full of happy people, and some said, “I never thought a game could be this fun!” And all of us agreed. What happened later was a sheer tragedy. Aion went from 25 servers down to 1 today.

I left during the 3rd month.. Unfortunately, these days I keep getting flashbacks. The days of GW2 launch when at 3 am there were about 45 people in Queensdale ganging up on the troll, and I thought to myself, “I never thought a game could be this fun!”

Now the lands are starting to feel empty. My old friend is choosing EQ2 over GW2 now. Very sad for me. SoE CEO is imho one of the worst. Yet now my best bud chose EQ2 since GW2 since the NPE. He’s not been back lately to GW2 at all.

A part of me is sad, another part is trying to be hopeful. Time will tell. All I got to say is I’m no longer going to sink $ into this game till I am shown some hope.

P.S. What bothers me about NCSoft is its lack of vision, innovation, sense of timing. They mean well, but I don’t think they cut it. I’m sad to see ANet under their ownership.

What I want to tell NCSoft is: Leave ANet to be in charge of development. Stop messing.

I watched what happened to Aion Online and decided I would never buy NCSoft stocks. Have not changed my mind, given so many things in the move to accommodate China opening for GW2 point to the same direction. I’m leery.

I’m playing this game as long as I have fun. Nothing is forever. :p Including the universe lol lol.

Only thing that will stay is Darwin theory.

To OP:

I love your idea of Quaggan news. If a bulletin board system is implemented, I hope I’ll be able to search the keyword “Quaggan News Network”, and attend a daily, or weekly meeting you may host, just so your followers can sit around and listen and comment on your news.

You will not need to endure the rude comments from non-believers. You will be surrounded by a bunch of us. Some of us will come in Quaggan form. We’ll have a party and legends to build.

I’m somewhat dyslexic btw. Excuse me for many mistyping.

More on “Combat Academy”. I had zero concept of “pulling” in EQ until one night a kind player took time to show me where to stand to pull in a tight spot, and why. Till this day I remember gazing at his slim dark elf in a dark robe. He was my hero! Man it still tears me up now to think of what happened to him later. (He left the game, a brilliant player who could not play the raid schedule. He grinded for months for a few augs then finally told me, “This is nothing but grind.” I miss him till this day.

Now, I can read all about the combat builds, etc. But being a visual person, somewhat dyslexic and scatterbrained, I have a hard time remembering words. Just now I got a vision of a kind guardian standing on a hill telling me, “This is how you use AE effect skill. Look, I’ll pull mobs here. Then cast staff skill #x.”

I’ll remember him forever. I am not a learner that function well by reading. It’s all a wall of text to me.

I know one of the new thing in GW2 is AE effect circles. The many newbies, including me, out there, still don’t know all the combos. Imagine if a small tutoring group where one to three vets get together and show a small group of newbies on how to do it. They may end up friends for life.

You actually see the real people, the real friends, demonstrating to you. That friendship is far deeper then reading on a forum.

I sincerely hope ANet will consider giving us a play style choice menu for mega server. By doing so, it can usher in a new age where:

New players that enter GW2 will be welcomed by all players as they click their preference. I can see a “Newbie welcome” on the menu where experienced players who feel like guiding a newbie for the session can choose to go to help all newbies.

I myself would love to visit a “Combat Academy” server to learn more about combat mechanics from some of the real pro players. Queensdale had that combat instructor that told me to “hold”, “hold”.. ok I had fun RPing a newbie, but when it came to reality, despite my years of learning mmorpg combat, the GW2 intricacies are still beyond me. Part of my fear in even trying SPvP is that I’ll go in and get dead in 0.5 seconds.

I would love to go to such a server type for an hour at a time and maybe will have a chance to talk to some pro players live, to learn. If there is such a server, I think some of the kind players would not mind gong there to be the real tutor of the day. It can be a good newbie recruiting ground where they will at least find newbies who thirst to learn.

I was interested in WvW but the first night I went it was midnight and my server had 3 of us guarding our home when enemies came 10 or 12 at a time. I was a total noob and died gallantly trying to rez another noob. lol that was the end. I felt very inept. Later all I read was how imbalanced WvW. When I did visit it WvW again it was with a EoTM train. It felt rather pointless to me, just a zerg. My fun in the very occasional train is just the thrill of being with a large crowd. But I am still hoping one day I’ll be able to be a soldier following commanders and actually understand what is going on. That to me is a high learning curve because I’ve never done it before.

I’m hoping on a server type named "WvW Home Front I can hear, live, on map chat about WvW stories, whatever. Or be drafted into an on-going WvW session to aid one of the factions. (taxi anyone?)

SPvP? Friendly contest can be a great concept in my dream. Yet a dream beyond me as I watch the pro tournament. My head spinning in excitement for 15 minutes because “Yay NA is winning!” But all I see is people dashing madly. I can’t even read the combat icons flashing to figure out what is going on. “Oh I wish I know what is going on” went on in my head.

Sorry, and this is when I was in EQ it took me 3 days of reading forums to understand even the basics of combat of my class, then 6 months of playing, reading hardcore to figure out my own combat plans. Eventually I got compliments, yet when I joined a top raiding guild 2 of the officers gave me more tips. I’m sorry to say, some of us just need a lot of tutoring. :P I keep hoping to learn builds, etc. GW2 has a very different system that has a lot of interesting concept to it.

I think if as a newbie, many players will get the choice to go to a Newbie Combat Tutor server type where some seasoned players may just feel like be there and guide newbies for a session, we cadets would be grateful, and may eventually be able to contribute to the play style in GW2.

GW2 will develop a whole auto tutoring session this way. With volunteer tutors that don’t cost NCSoft revenue a dime. On top of it, this will facilitate community relationships among newbies and seasoned players who may wish to recruit for their guilds.

Hey, some guilds can host events and name a time, place to tutor “How to play a guardian” on the bulletin board. When time comes, airship will take all players who are interested to the spot.

Anyway, I hope we will all become friends on a true mega server, and will be able to choose our play style of the hour. One day we can look back at the current state as “in the old days.. we walked to school both ways up the hill in snow…”.

Then, we will all become one. One server in the spirit of GW2. Brothers and sisters in a universe that is full of friends.

Oops, re: Bulletin board suggestion of mine. Just dawnd on me…. How are people going to be taxied to the RP event on the correct mega server? Taxiing again? Nah. So OOC! Time wasting and breaking immersion.

Maybe we’d need to invent a name for an airship that will ship people to the mega server where the guild is on, for event “Xxxx”, matching the guild name.

The airship will have a menu of stops for events active at any moment.

Back when the RP community strongly argued against mega server I was very happy, feeling confident it would be helped. So confident that I did not even bother to help. After all, I was just an average RPer, with medium skill in RP at best. But as time went on it is obvious the community is facing an ice wall coming ahead.

I see RP in the Grove, too, probably due to my server being TC. But over time in mid-level zones RP is beginning to be less, and less. As new players arrive I think old servers will eventually disappear to the point if I said to a new player, “I’m from TC.” he will ask, “What’s that?”

I hope ANet will brainstorm and come up with a structure to shape the future of Mega Servers.

One thing I’d like to add: In the case I mentioned above on “race wars”, in case there is a large inequity among race population, it can be solved in an RP lore by having one of the deities of each race granting its race a small MF to encourage players to bring in their “minority race”. It is an indirect way to reward the players for facing more challenge. That bonus can shift based on new population balance so as to prevent abuse. (On that note: I forgot to mention my vision is to have much shorter WvW duration for each round. At most 2 hours, so no power-shifting abuse by players either.)

And, achievements can be granted for winning WvW as an Asura underdog, etc. (Sorry I’m major scatter brain when it comes to brainstorming.)

Another idea to promote RP community: Have bulletin board in side each major city where RP guilds can post their activities so a player can go to check the board and read an announcement on “Activity, time, place, by guild name” format to prevent abuse. I’d love to read and plan on joining some of the activities.

[Just want to thank OP for titling this thread: State of Roleplaying. Hope I’m still on topic on how to help this state.]