Guild Wars 2

I really want to make the thief work though : /

Ever since the merging of free and tournament play (and the fact I returned a few weeks ago) I’ve started doing some TPvP matches. The problem is I cannot find a build where I feel useful enough to justify my slot on the team.

Burst spec? Sometimes useful, but only if my team is well coordinated and the enemy team is not paying attention.

P/D or S/D spec? I never feel like I’m helping enough during team skirmishes, although the 1v1 does help for node control. Still feels weak.

I’m at a loss for finding a good niche role for thieves right now, and it makes me feel I should roll ele/ranger/mesmer/guardian to really pull my weight. What are you guys doing for TPvP and how successful do you think a thief can be in that environment?

One of my favorite builds is the stealth “dancing” S/D build. It’s generally low damage, but huge longevity and lots of AoE means it’s perfect for 1vX in WvW.

General traits:
0/30/30/10/0
For crit: +7% crit from sides/behind, +5% vit from precision, and 20% more damage under 50% on target
For shadow: -2 initiative on a stealth move, remove condition every 3 seconds in stealth, and the grandmaster heal in stealth trait
10 in acro for +might on dodge

Armor/runes: even mix of zerker, valkrye, and PVT – mix and match as you see fit. Runes of Strength for improved might duration and stacking, and +5% when might is active (the idea is, with constant +2 might on every stealth, you can easily hit ~11-13 might stacks solo and sustainably). Main hand I use a fire sigil, offhand a +stun duration sigil in WvW, +damage in SPvP.

Secondary weapon should be SB, because Anet made it way too good.

Utilities: these are up to you, but my favorite combo is Shadow Step, Blinding Power, and Shadow Signet (I’m addicted to 25% speed…). I usually run thieves guild for ultimate.

The basic strat to this is making the combo CnD → tac strike → #1 combo (all 3 hits) → CnD, repeat. Infiltrators strike is godly for condition removal and positioning. Kinda boring in the sense than all your damage is from auto-attack, but you can nearly daze lock any build while healing ~15-20% of your HP per stealth with good AoE.

Currently I’m running the newby-lolz burst spec for TPvP since that’s our only real good one for 5v5’s, but this sword spec is probably my favorite for WvW/PvE/Hotjoin, and it’s extremely underrated.

Updated look: Sylvari cowboy. Really a fan of the lionsguard dagger skins as well.

Reasoning was to focus the two weapon’s damage types more. Removing the bleed, but allowing to stack vulnerability (via new #4 effect) would allow for some large single hits and still adds utility in the form of increasing group damage over reduced healing on target. More of a flavor change than anything. Same goes for removing the poison damage from #4 in the first place- changes the focus of the set while still replacing some of the utility to better combo with the other skills. My main thoughts were on changes to P/P, and this was a way to differentiate the focus on damage sources. I’d be perfectly fine with shortbow remaining as is, and P/P being changed on it’s own instead.

The knockback might be too powerful if AoE, could be made single target or something else, the main change here was to make it a player based blast finisher to allow combo-ing with smoke fields and giving P/P a method to stealth.

Once again, these are ideas, and many iterations and balancing would have to be done before being viable. Just throwing these ideas out there to be dissected and discussed.

Quick thoughts on how to improve P/P:

First: focus P/P as a condition spec and shortbow as direct damage set

Changes for bow:

- Remove bleed stacking from clusterbomb.
- Change poison cloud to cause weakness OR vulnerability instead of poison.

Changes for P/P:

- Add short burning component per hit on unload
- Increase fire rate on vital shot
- Redesign Body shot to the following:

4 initiative cost
PBAoE blast finisher
1/2 second cast time
Knocks back up to 5 enemies within 5 yards of yourself, applies burn or bleed.

Could be used to stealth in smoke cloud, may require a cooldown or other changes to prevent it from being TOO strong versus melee.

Thoughts?

I’ve been S/D since almost day one, then took a few days trying out D/D after the nasty S/D nerfs last week, but missed S/D too much and came back to it, nerfs be kitten

My build and thoughts:

I run 10/30/30/0/0 with a mix of zerker/valk/toughness gear (full zerker in SPvP).

Shadow arts includes -2 initiative on stealthing abilities, remove condition in stealth, and regen in stealth

Critical damage traits include +7% crit from behind, +5% vitality from precision, and +20% damage on enemies <50% HP. Mug from Deadly arts of course.

Utility skills: shadow step, shadow refuge, and either shadow signet or blinding powder depending on WvW/ SPvP situtations. Elite is usually Daggerstorm.

Playstyle: Mostly stealth dance with tactical strike in a 1v1, with lots of teleporting in and out of combat for group skirmishes. Rely on stealth for condition removal and health recovery, and chaining CnD’s can be an effective way to delay combat and regen until the fight is more favorable. Also, shadowstep is the ultimate anti-glass cannon ability – anytime a thief or warrior tries to instagib me I can get the hell out of dodge.

Damage from auto-attack is still pretty good, and boon stripping on #3 is great against bunkers. Overall, it’s an amazing duelist spec, and in large scale combat can do all sorts of damage with AoE. It starts to lose value in high level TPvP since those matches are usually all bunker or glasscannon or go home, but in WvW / SPvP and low level tournies it’s an amazing spec.

I’d agree, except many different (on their own) reasonable nerfs all hitting the S/D weapon set at the same time make it much weaker relative to other weapon sets, even more so than before, whereas other weapon sets have a smaller number of nerfs hitting them.

Turbolence.3842:

So ArenaNet has destroyed a build that I loved s / d…daze was the only thing that made this build competitive .. someone has checked how long now daze with sigil of paralyzation or ruin of mesmer?

In SPvP? Neither sigil nor runes have any effect, so it’s a set 1.5 seconds.

In WvW/PvE, it’s the same as before (2.67 seconds with Sigil).

Unfortunately, this has led to me using different builds for SPvP and WvW, since abilities are extremely different now between the two settings, which I finds very strange.

To all of those magauumanites in the jumping puzzle ~ 12:30 pst this night:

Awesome fight, can’t believe me and my TAC buddy were able to keep you backed up for so long :P

Long live the OP thieves!

That’s ridiculous… it should at least apply to the first target. Also, it definitely HAS applied to the first target occasionally, but it’s ridiculously unreliable. I’m really enjoying this shortbow spec I have now, and getting B venom to work when I need it too would actually make it work… I hope this is an oversight on Anet’s part.

In the meantime I’ll try to use 3 skill to apply as a bandaid fix.

I’ve noticed the issue with appearing visible while actually invisible, but in these cases I did not even have the stealth buff and my enemies could clearly see me.

I’m also still quite interested in why B Venom doesn’t work with the bow most the time, since the build I’ve been working on relies on that combo for a few things.

The reason this seems to hit S/D the hardest:

1.) 2.67 second daze is now 1.5 seconds – nearly half the original (nerf needed, but this is a bit much)
2.) CnD made up about 30-40% of a “daze lock” build damage combo, as opposed to ~20% of a 1 shot wonder BS build combo
3.) Dancing Dagger was used quite a bit by tankier S/D builds for small skirmish damage, whereas 1shot dagger builds only used it on ressers.

Good news is that the S/D build just got stronger for WvW (where it was already shining well). I’m trying out a few pure shortbow spec’s in SPvP so far and am liking it alot, so it’s not the end of the world, just an annoying wing clip for S/D in S/TPvP

I’ve had alot of issues with this combo. Many times I’ll apply bas venom and hit my target with nothing around it, and the venom doesn’t apply. It seems to be completely random whether or not it works or not.

Similarly, I’ve had quite a few issues with blinding powder not working post patch as well – animation plays, cooldown is triggered, yet I’m not invisible.

Anyone else notice these issues?

Sylvari thief with pirate sword and dagger skins:

I’m personally frustrated since my favorite weapon combo, S/D, was the one hit hardest by this nerf, despite being one of the least used weapon sets, while D/D burst was left slightly nerfed.

Secondly, I’m annoyed that P/P continues to be sub-par.

The one good thing is that almost nothing changed in WvW, since that doesn’t count as a PvP zone. I’ll just have to run seperate builds for WvW and SPvP now…

Are you sure mesmer runes are having an impact? I cannot see any difference using them in the mists

Yea, the high toughness S/D build I was running is the hardest hit by this, whereas D/D burst is still attractive. Go figure.

Still looks like tac strike daze is unaffected by runes or sigils, would love it is someone could verify or show that they do ><

Update: Runes of Mesmer and Sigil of Paralyzation do not seem to have any effect on Tactical Strike daze. I hope this is unintended… can someone else verify?

ROFL – I just logged in, I have to relearn CnD now! That nerf should have been documented :P

Eduardo.4675:

Cufflink.3985:

The overall damage for a S/D stealth dancing thief isn’t down too much (+10% tact, -33% on CnD, #1 combo no change), and the daze time reduction was probably needed – you’re right in saying that people hadn’t figured this out yet or the whining would have been epic. The DD nerf is more of a buff for rangers than anything else, and now is more of a gap closer skill instead of a damage one.

Question I still have on tact strike – do Sigil of Paralyzation (15% stun duration) and Runes of the Mesmer (33% daze duration) stack? I’ve had a hard time figuring this out in the mists.

No, they dont stack; before this patch, both were giving tactical strike 3 secs duration,now i believe they will make daze last for 2 secs.

Looks like I’ll have to go test the new tact strike with these combo’d and individual, to see if anything has changed there. Would be cheeky of them to nerf the duration, only to allow both of these to stack now.

The overall damage for a S/D stealth dancing thief isn’t down too much (+10% tact, -33% on CnD, #1 combo no change), and the daze time reduction was probably needed – you’re right in saying that people hadn’t figured this out yet or the whining would have been epic. The DD nerf is more of a buff for rangers than anything else, and now is more of a gap closer skill instead of a damage one.

Question I still have on tact strike – do Sigil of Paralyzation (15% stun duration) and Runes of the Mesmer (33% daze duration) stack? I’ve had a hard time figuring this out in the mists.

To the ET killing the champ spirit: Sorry about that, I was trying to help and had no relation to the group that swept in to ruin the fun ><

1.) I’d expect anyone to accept a heartfelt complement, regardless of which “class” it came from. Hell, if it came from such an “OP class” wouldn’t that mean more?

2.) I’m playing as a high toughness S/D thief, which is completely different than the oft hated FOTM dagger thieves.

3.) Why the hell should I be hated on because I picked a class style I liked weeks before anyone had any idea of the meta-game?

4.) Why the hell should any of this matter when it comes to being decent humans to one another?

I swear, every game is the same these days….

I tried to congratulate a Mag mesmer for playing well and killing me in a 1 v2 I had versus him an a thief, but all he did was respond about how I sucked and thieves are all pussies.

I am now disillusioned with the GW2 community, I thought we were better than this.

Some of the most fun I’ve had yet is getting into hopelessly outnumber fights 1vX, and seeing how many I can down or even stomp before going down myself. Few times I’ve gotten quite a few of you, sometimes I go down immediately – just a fun way of playing with the outmanned buff!

Heh the caltrops trick is a nasty killing machine from our condition thieves. I’m usually solo or in a duo (S/D + D/D burst combo is disgustingly strong!) running around capping supplies/yaks/NPC camps, which has led to some spectacular small scale skirmishes. I somewhat wish we would move back to Mag since I didn’t really want to leave in the first place (voting happened at some point?) but no matter what fun fighting out there!

I really am disappointed in Ebay this week… last week we had lots of people out with multiple commanders per map.

This week, we have outmanned buff at primetime in EB.

To make it worse, I x’fered from Mag (where I had been since day 1) to EBay since TAC wanted to move over

To be fair, the “culling” issue is more of a non-issue. A good S/D or stealth dancing D/D or P/D spec will still be able to jump in and out of stealth with good timing. When I pull off a chain CnD, I can time it so I’m out of stealth on my screen for less than half a second, and if I do a normal #1 combo, there’s a ~.25 second window between daze dropping off and CnD hitting again.

This might be too powerful a combo, but “culling” is not a real issue when using them correctly.

John Lucier.5486:

Jamaz.9837:

Actually, that might be Killingfrenzy from [PURG] since it seemed like he was aiming for that outfit; he’s pretty good too. The one I’m talking about is a female thief with some awkward 1950’s hairstyle. We normally group up for an attack, and we usually hear “I’m already downing them. I’m downed.” while we’re still 10 seconds out.

Nah it was def male, and Im pretty sure a condition thief. Looked straight out of Assassins creed. Not sure about tags, coulda been TAC or SM

If it was from TAC it was probably Knyx, since he has the exact assassins creed lookalike set and runs condition.

As a member of TAC, we are finally starting to get our groups/numbers together, so yes you will likely see squads of 2-8 thieves doing behind lines raids and what not. Not all of us are burst builds, for instance I’m a tanky S/D build and we have lots of condition thieves.

I do have to say, I had some epic fights near Rogues Quarry and at the southeast camp in Mag’s borderland last night. Both times it was two of us versus a steady stream of defenders, and were eventually overwhelmed, but 15 minutes straight of action is intense

Although one thing that has been bugging me: after a tough or close fight, I always /salute or /bow to my opponent… however, I’ve seen the most /laughing, /dancing, or /sitting from enemies this match than ever before…

Definitely worth joining, lots of good thief discussion and we own with our triple group thief WvW squad!

I’m an 80 thief who is already of Maguuma and would love to join – character’s name is Cufflink. Already did some ganking with a pair of [TAC] members in EB, was tons of fun!

Etheron Hill defense was awesome fun, one of the more hectic siege battles I’ve been a part of.

What Zastari said – I’ve been messaged quite a few times by players from other servers using this method.

Held Mendons for nearly 2 hours, that was some epic fighting for a while there! Totally worth all the siege and upgrades we dumped into it, and it all started with just 2 players ^^

Two of my guild (both with the word “Cuff” in our names) just took speldon then Mendon tower as a duo. Come attack it, we’ve built up a welcoming party for ya’ll!

I love it when people are accused of exploiting things beyond there control, especially when they have no idea whether or not the perceived exploit is even happening (how to tell that they can’t see you due to culling issues?).

It’s happening to all of us, be patient and it will be fixed. In the mean time, stop using it as an excuse.

To all the NSP players at the hill east of Anza, trying to set up that treb w/ arrowcarts?

Thanks for the fun! Still can’t believe I killed that treb in the middle of your group, let alone stomp those handful I did! (you guys did kill me several times in my quest to take it down, to be fair though :P)

Best WvW week yet, imho!

Hmm regardless of petty inter-server tactics whining, I’ve had a ton of fun this week.

Earlier today when all servers were fairly low-pop’d I made quite a few badges just sitting on the outside of the NSP zerg attacking the northwest corner of SM and the DH zerg, and fighting whoever decided to come attack me. If you fought me and got the /salute, you were a tough opponent (I was the sword/dagger Maguuma thief standing just south of the bridge between Anza and SM)!

And before my server whines at me for not working as a team, it was rather disorganized at that time period with no clear objectives : /

Maguuma does have some very good players, which helps counter our severe lack of off-prime time numbers.

And we have some kittens like me, who will get a group of several guildies and spread misery and let slip the dogs of war, just for the lulz. Just make sure you like irreverent humor if you come here!

Edit: If you know what sort of havoc a pure shortbow thief can wreck, PLEASE COME! We need some more of these fine (and totally balanced, I swear!) players to join us!

How about that. Small world (vs world).

Also, I understand the frustration from our world right now, but I don’t think we need to argue about what’s fair or smart or who’s zerging. The basic issue is we don’t have the large numbers to compete with a server who can keep up a 24/7 presence – that’s how WvW works. I do have to say I’ve played with some veerrry good players on Maguuma, so I do think we punch slightly above our weight class in that regard.

One of the most fun incidents happened earlier today in our (Maguuma) borderlands. I was headed to the east supply camp to try and take something (not many were in and there was no official organization at the moment) when I run into a group of 3 SoS players slowly walking (auto-run off, in formation) up the road. I stopped and stared at them for a good 20 seconds while they slowly pimp-walked at me, trying to figure out what was going on. Once I figured they were players I figure what-the-kitten and attacked.

Long story short, I did manage to down 2 of them before dying (mostly from them being surprised I actually attacked). One of them messaged me later and we bantered a bit about the incident – very friendly and good natured. I have to give props to SoS for that, certainly made for a memorable occasion in a rather bleak period of WvW

We’re up, 480 to 350ish.

Auto balance pops up.

Counts down 2… 1… (score is now 498 – 350ish)

Swaps me teams, re-zone into the losing team game over scoreboard. After leading the winning (previous) team on captures and kills.

Oh well.

Now, on my third attempt, I can’t even interact with the shrines. This entire quest is extremely buggy and preventing my personal story from continuing

Twice now I’ve been knocked under the level with no way out – I have to redo the entire thing to try again. It happens in the third orb room – one of the risen used a knockback that sends me through the floor. This is incredibly frustrating and preventing me from continuing my personal story.

When I was thinking of block, I was thematically envisioning it as a parry/riposte and follow through, which would fit a swashbuckling rogue/thief archetype fairly well. A pure block like a warriors would feel a bit odd, that is true.

I would also like the #1 attack to be sped up, even at the cost of reduced damage per hit. Feels lethargic compared to the other weapons.

I did cross link this into the suggestions forum a little while ago If nothing else, hopefully helps them think of ways to make FS or a replacement to work well.

Yea, how dare those thieves disagree with my blatantly uninformed and anecdotal statement that they are too hard for me to deal with.

How dare they.

-.-