Guild Wars 2

Sandrox.9524:

1st.I belive that Justin Bieber is a girl,dosnt mean its true.
2nd.Revenant is a new class which stuff already overlaped with it,Rev is not related.
3rd.they “leaked” sword on ele’s,and eventually it was warhorn.

Glint is the last spec which has yet to be revealed and considering that every class has five specs plus one elite spec makes it more than likely, i understand nothing is set in stone, but this whole thread is about speculation so it fits right in.

I have no idea what your second point is, sorry.

The ‘leak’ on ele sword was nothing but the concept of some changed dagger skills, not even half finished and taken out of the game weeks before the announcment. The artwork and the weapon skins (which can already already be previewed in game) are a stronger indication than that.

We will have to wait and see, but as of now i stand by my point that staff is the most likely and possibly rifle due to the clear lack of solid (long) ranged options.

To all of you saying they wouldn’t give the same weapon to more than one specilaization. I believe the revenant shield spec (glint) will be the revenants elite spec. Meaning it would share the same elite spec with Mesmer.

In addition to that, there will be more elite spec in the future and at some point weapons WILL overlap so its a moot point in the long run. Take that with the already leaked evidence of staff models and the backdrop in thief colors and you can say fairly certainly that its gonna be staff. Also noteworthy is that with the introduction of melee staff on revenant they already got some new animations which they might reuse for thief skills.

neptunechild.4831:

I am the mesmer in your video. Here’s what I know -

You were pretty focused on your target – the BG mesmer. I was at your blindspot (behind you). Knowing that you didn’t notice me, I walked up to you (no stealth, no blink) and did my burst. And my MoD didn’t interrupt you. I run full zerker and I probably had around 2900 power judging by the buffs I had.

I agree mesmer is over the top post-patch and I am all for balance of the OP traits, namely PU, CS, and Blind on shatter. However, I don’t think these overpowerful traits have anything to do with your case.

I agree Mesmer burst hits hard but it has been like that since pre-patch. Not to mention you ate a full burst that most of the hits crit. If you knew I was coming for you, it would be a different story.

I agree with the traits, just want to point out you are revealed so you must have stealthed at some point… I also think its redundant since we know there is the possibility of a stealth engage on mesmer, even if it didn’t really happen here.

We should keep in mind that the game is mostly balanced around PvP and there are a lot of extra factors in wvw; food, guard stacks, ascended gear… I’m not saying to that to justify that burst just to remind everyone to seperate balance complains.

Having said that, i used to main Mesmer in the old days, mainly in WvW. You could def oneshot the occasinal squishy, but if what OP says is true and he had a few knight pieces+ toughness food, the burst we see in the vid wouldn’t have been possible.

There seem to be 2 major points of discussion in this thread.

1. Reaction Time (L2Dodge).
The burst is kinda split, first OP goes down to about 300 health in less than 0.5 sec and then gets finished a tad later, overall in the span of a bit more than 1 sec.

I will argue that most players would be able to dodge it if they knew it was comming and the OP should have had better awarness of his surroundings. Having said that tho, i think most players would not be able to dodge it without aticipating it. The mesmer could also have easily thrown in a stun to seal the deal.

2. “Damage is high across the board, other classes could have done the same.”
Damage is too high and it does show, especially in WvW, i think we can agree on that.
Hopefully there will be some adjustments soon.

Conscerning the second part, there are only 2, maybe 3 other classes that could do the same.
A killshot warrior could have maybe 1shot the ranger too, but it would require might stacks and in most cases its very unlikely that they can get anywhere close to you without noticing. So while yes, it is possible, the situations where its possible are fewer. In addition killshot is more of a 1 trick pony. It has a lot of weaknesses.

Burn guard. This build has a crazy condi burst potential and can also almost instagib players. It will however take longer to apply the appropriate amount of stacks, it also takes longer to kill and it also has a lot harder time to approach unnoticed.

Backstab thief. As seen by my signature i main thief these days. I roam quite a bit in wvw with the meta d/p build, full ascended gear, food and guard buffs. I have landed up to 13k crits with backstabs on squishies (zerker necros, mesmer and eles) which amouts to around 15-16k with mug and sigil proccs in extreme cases. There is however no way that it would be possible on a ranger without additional might. Especially if said ranger is running some knights pieces. My best guess is that a backstab would have hit for up to 10-11k, 13k with mug and sigils.

Conclusion.
Mesmers where in a weak spot before the patch and needed some good buffs. The baseline changes were really welcome and well picked. I do howver also think that a few traits are in need of shaving, it is not suprising that while they buffed one of the weakest classes they might have underestimated the impact of all those changes at the same time.

tl;dr mesmer finally good, maybe a tad too strong

Bountiful Theft baseline would indeed help a lot of builds… It makes Trickery way less mandatory. Also trickster baseline might help to bring back some trait diversity but would force everyone to run withdrawal which is already considered best in slot. Much better if you can choose trickster and maybe add a pistol enhancing trait to trickery!

Curunen.8729:

Baseline iElasticity means 5 strikes (ah the word filter doesn’t like “hits” after the number “5”…) – so optimally 3 on the enemy, 2 on the mesmser providing it doesn’t fly off to a second target.

There’s nothing wrong in that screenshot – that’s exactly how it worked pre patch also.

Increased stat damage issues are not Mesmer specific. As far as I’m aware, nothing has been changed with the damage of mirror blade.

Ehm its not quite like prepatch, the extra bounce trait was made baseline.

Edit: nvm didn’t read the comment properly.

Tarkan.5609:

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

But then if you ran only deceptions, you could recharge them on 20 sec cd. Might be too strong.

I would only make it recharge one skill, but one on your skill bar thats on CD. Would be nicer imo.
Like this it can be a game changer or (at least this effect of the trait) totally useless.

Kinda like this idea, but it would make it broken. Keep in mind that this would be a free recharge every 20secs, easily abusable for long CD utilities by waiting out the low CD utilities in stealth…

As for builds, I’m on mobile so I won’t link any, but generally mug, panic strike and improv or exec for DA, Thrill, BT and Sleigh of Hand for Trickery. If you go CS make sure to pick no quarter and if you go SA take the health/ini gain in stealth.

Runes are usually pack, occasionally you see some scholar or others. Whatever works for you.

Sigils on d/p should be fire/air for higher burst, energy and air/fire on SB is what I run, but generosity or leech works fine too.

Panncakez.1290:

Stratos.9375:

None. Thief is not viable WvW anymore.
Coming from a main Thief player, the latest rebalance patch just destroyed us.

Any examples/explanations? Never dug deep into theives, so I don’t know what changed. :|

Some people just want to complain…

On the topic, I think you choose the right trait lines for a beginner and don’t be upset about getting beaten by guards. DPS/condi guard has always countered thieves, especially d/p and d/d.

If you feel like you are getting screwed by immobs, take withdraw as a heal, even with a SA build, it will save your life.

Other than that, realize that thief has a fairly high skill cap and to win a lot of matchups you have to play either really aggressively (if you are DA, CS and Trickery) or reset a lot and regen (DA/CS, SA and Trickery).

Learn how to use the backstab steal comb (precast backstab and steal before it finishes) and practise dodging in SR.

Hope some of this helps

Thanks for the input guys, i think i agree that bountiful theft is prolly still stronger overall. I wonder how trickster will feel once they fix the heal amount on withdraw, the haste cd and make (not sure its gonna happen) improvisation reset flanking strike (note: the cd is on the utility (haste) which should reset with an improv procc).

I also want to point out that i strongly agree with those saying Improv is worth it for the extra steal and you don’t rely on the reset (although it can potentially be huge). giving up the dmg of executioner is excuseable if you go DA,CS and Trickery imho but i can see how some people prefer the extra dmg, works well with +1 fights with bunkers and pressuring them down quicker.

On a seperated note, i have had a lot of fun trying this build and its variations with s/d. you run with a lot less dodges (sometimes with a second signet instead of shadow step), but the pressure is pretty strong. Plays a bit more like the classic d/p in a sense that you go in and out more often and higher pressure than the classic s/d.

Do you guys think SA has a place in the current meta? I personally feel like the nerf to SE makes it not worth pickung up since you loose a lot of pressure and normal stealth duration is usually enough.

Hey guys, since the patch has been our for a couple of weeks now and im stuck studying (in other words bored to death) i wanted make this topic to keep me entertained over the next few days.

I think most of us will agree that d/p seems to be the way to go currently and i want to talk about specific trait choices and hear your input on what you prefer.

There are imo 3 trait choices that are not a 100% obvious.

1. Improvisation vs. Executioner
I think Improvisation wins this one, the added utility makes fights a lot smoother and enables a more versatile playstyle. In addtion to that, the reset can be a clutch lifesaver or turn the tide of the battle. However, missing executioner becomes quite annoying when fighting tanky builds and you are unable to increase the pressure after the intial burst.

2. Thrill of Crime vs. Flanking Strikes
Now this one is kinda tricky. Usually the 60sec cd on flanking strike(aka haste) makes it seem much less desirable than a 60% uptime on fury and swiftness for potentially 5 teammates (courtyard anyone?). If combined with trickster however the cd becomes 48 (currently bugged to 36) seconds and it removes a condition when it proccs. The condi removal is somewhat neglectable since its nearly impossible to time it correctly, does on occasion help however. Imo its only worth it, if combined with trickster, which brings us to the third trait choice.

3. Trickster vs. Bountiful Theft
Oh boy, bountiful theft is kinda the holy grail of trickery combined with Sleigh of Hands, taking out this trait is surely not an easy decision. the boon removal is so valuabe since it makes your steal an almost guranteed interrupt, the vigor it provides is imo neglectable post patch but still worth noting. Trickster on the other hand seems to only benefit withdraw at first (which is btw. also still bugged and doesn’t provide the promised 10% increased healing). It reduces the cd to below 15sec and adds a condi cleanse. As mentioned above, it also benefits the trait flanking strike by reducding the cd and provinding another (albeit unreliable) condi cleanse. I do feel like that the current meta with an even bigger emphasis on burst and changed stability makes bountiful theft less desirable than it used to be. In addition Trickster adds some condi cleanse which was lost with the old 60206 build.

What do you guys think?
Is flanking strike+trickster worth it? would you just run flanking strike? would you still run it if they fix the cd reduction?

finally, the build i’m currently using:
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=Vh3RV;1Vwk0-7-FOFd0;9;4IJM;0147146147;4INl6h;1IBl3IBl3a0;9;9;9;9-cYDucYDuy

Here is my take in it, and mesmer balance in general. I have a lot of hours in this game and a good chunk of it on mesmer (used to main). These days I prefer to play a thief.

To answer your question, mesmer has always been hated for two reasons. Stealth and Clones.
Since its hard to counter stealth in this game people tend to dislike classes using it. It requires a lot of awareness and experience to anticipate stealth openings and not panic when getting bursted out of nowhere.
Clones have the same issue, you need to check the buff bars or look for specific movement to tell who the player is. Not really an issue for experienced players, but a nightmare for beginners.

Prepatch mesmer was surely one of the weaker classes, only a few top tier players were able to play it competitively and for most fights felt like an uphill battle. IMO the biggest issue was no reliable cleanse+somewhat weak sustain (assuming the prepatch shatter meta builds).
The class was in need of some buffs and I’m glad they got it. The best part is the increased build diversity from lockdown to bunker.

Mesmer postpatch feels a bit over the top, I want to say it almost doesn’t matter what build you run, you can make it work. Ofc some builds are still not viable or haven’t been tested properly yet. I do think however that since a few weeks have passed it is time to evaluate the currently developing meta builds.
Most people agree that while producing a pretty absurd stealth uptime, PU doesn’t bring enough to be top tier in PvP. With the overall higher DMG, it does seem to be pretty strong in WvW however and I’d argue that it needs adjustment there. What does need adjustment in PvP IMO is the stun on daze, having a range instant stun on demand feels to powerful with the other tools a mesmer has (range&stealth burst). The shatter DMG doesn’t seem to be too strong and I feel like the meta needs to develop further to judge it properly.

On a last note, I wish people could have serious discussions on the balance on classes here and not just either defend their classes and tell everyone how often they get nerfed/how long they were weak and use that as a justification for a class being too strong now, or on the other hand cry for over the top nerfs. A good balance will ultimately benefit all and make the game more enjoyable.

Its more or less the same build i use. sword damage is so strong now its whats carrying this build imho…. I also think Improv and SR over second signet is better^^

Interestingly enough it works just as well with d/p with the obvious diffrent playstyle..

I believe the trait is bugged in another regard too, the tooltip reads it as a proccing the trick ultilty, but if you pick Improvisation and get a reset on tricks it doesn’t reset flanking strike. Considering it is affected by the cd reduction(even if the values are off) it should also be affected by the utility reset from flanking strike right?

Here is my support for the male side, had a female for a long time too tho….
http://i.imgur.com/VEltrff.png

I just now had the chance to read the whole thread, and the main thing that stood out to me is what a great comedian iiMulch.2138 is.
Whining about everything, but still manages to show his utter arrogance, thanks for making this whole thread entertaining!

P.S. You shoud take Vero as an example of how not to be a prick.

Paradox.5498:

Siphaed.9235:

However, what you’re looking for is Asura tech. The T3 staff costs 69,000 Karma and it glows purple with a purple mist coming off it.

Are there any alternatives for non-Asura?

Cultural Weapons have no race restriction!