Guild Wars 2

Bump for good idea on night time events. Would love a sort of a keep-the-fire-burning or similar event. And indeed, at the moment it feels safer to stay at an abandoned place during night (or early evening light-wise :P )

it is a nice, plausible, idea, however it would require that wvw becomes a battlefield first. Right now it’s a zerg field, nothing much to say or see there

Ideally, this naval battle would be a sort of ‘continuation map’ stemming from eternal battlegrounds. It could even be that each of the borderlands gets their own map (finally) and one of them is a far shore with an ocean (note, ‘ocean’) that needs to be crossed with ships before entering EB.

I can see ships being ‘produced’ or ‘built’ like moving towers and the docks being the keeps. Camps are the supply boats, that’s easy. Then players can order carrier boats to launch assaults on enemy ships, while each carrier would be able to carry up to 10 players (numbers adjustable, 8 or 12 could work as well). Up to 3 carriers could lay siege to a single battleship (tower) at any given time, and you’d need 3 battleships at least to be able to get close to the enemies’ docks.

Battleships (towers) could be designed to hold up to 20-25 players each, with no more than 4 battleships present per side at any given moment. They could have cannons/catapults/ballistas (no arrow carts or trebuchets) they could be navigated either by a commander and two squad members or a party of five (to make sure that trolling would be kept to a minimum)

Supply boats could be the smallest-sized vessels that would move back and forth between the front lines and the docks. They would serve a double purpose: 1) carrying supplies ala dolyak style to the battleships and 2) carrying up to 20 players around the battlefield, ferry style. Next stop, Gnashblade Battleship, etc. They would go through all available stops before heading back to port. 2 routes available so that you can reach either end of your battle line easily, middle more frail resource-wise more powerful attack wise.

Players could jump in the water to ‘swim’ back where they could actually bypass enemy defenses and head to a proper ‘water gate’ of the enemy docks, except it’s the heaviest line of defense instead of the lightest (as it stands now). Also would need to use underwater weapons to fight there, meaning even a 50 man zerg would need to have some sort of synergy to break through instead of mindless zerging.

Supply costs (assuming we’re using the current pricing model) would be as such:
Battleship: 500 supply, up to 4= 2000 supply overall (equivalent to a fully upgraded keep more or less)

Carrier: 10-20-30-40-50-60-70-80-90-100
Depending on how much supply spent increases boarding capacity, 10 supplies per person.

Supply Ships: A flat 50 supply to set sail, with each player boarding adding 5 supply at the cost, with a maximum of 300. This supply would then be distributed even amongst the battleships, eg. if you have 150 supply invested in the supply ship and 3 battleships, each battleship would get 50 supply per stop.

However if people carrying supply left the ship then the overall supply would be reduced. In our previous example, say the 150 supply ship reaches battleship 1/3 where 20 people disembark to defend/upgrade/assault nearby battleships. Supply is reduced by 50 due to stop AND by 10 due to people leaving, thus the remaining 90 supply is divided again equally between the rest of the ships, 45 and 45.
This would lead to some interesting tactics and supply management, where WvW is lacking heavily (treb cows with mastery are a toddler step in the right direction)

On the idea of docks, it would pretty much work as keeps do now, except they would be generating supply from safe internal camps (these would be sitting behind walls etc) at a normal rate and would get double the resources for capturing supply camps in nearby caves/forests/hills etc. Therefore it would make sense to send a small team to try and cap/defend these objectives while not overcommiting manpower(wvw wxp train I’m looking at you)

Also, all ships would have health pools, similar to walls, that could be damaged by enemy cannons/catapults and eventually sunk.

A sufficient number of ship parts would need to be destroyed for it to sink, depending on ship type: Battleship is comprised of 10 parts while 5 need to be destroyed to sink it, Carrier by 3 while 1 is required to be destroyed to sink it and supply ship by 5 while 3 are required to be destroyed to sink it, losing 10 supply per part lost.

The idea that the ships are npc controlled could lead to some interesting situations as well imo, as well as the ‘big kraken’ (I can imagine bosses from The Deep from gw 1 playing the kraken there).

It’s a very nice idea, and I really hope that sometime we might see this in game, but who knows?

What’s everyone’s thoughts?

If you’re talking about spvp, mesmers are practically one of the two moast ‘OP’ professions to play as, the other being the thief. Reason behind this is their ability to confuse. Add to that the heavy burst damage a mesmer can dish out in a short amount of time and you got a very strong build.

However I play full power phantasm kittenmesmer in spvp and I don’t ‘feel dirty’
When someone loses to a mesmer (if he’s good enough to not get stomped that is, which is the case of the people you’ve described) it’s mainly because he’s fuddled up at some point. A well-played thief/ele/necro/guard will almost always force a mesmer to retreat (if not kill kim)

But-and this is a huge but- mesmers have developed a fame for themselves as being ‘hard to kill’ and ‘OP’, therefore people usually expect to lose the moment they face a mesmer. This causes a lot of mistakes, esp when they are facing a phantasm mesmer.

The only class I feel bad/avoid killing in spvp is the warrior, mainly because they can usually do next to nothing about it.

KarlaGrey.5903:

No, ronger. I do not acknowledge such a class design worthy of being called by its normal name.

Please, give us the ranger then. Anytime.

KarlaGrey.5903:

People defending this class to such an extent make me turn away in disgust.
Just like for BM ronger, or any ronger for that matter.
Horrid class designs are horrid, and players riding on that wave of overperformance are sad.

First, r*a*nger

Horrid class designs? A bit late to whine about that aren’t you? Or do you mean horrid class designs that kill me only?

GankSinatra.2653:

Dest.7410:

This thread has moved from a rational conversation to an all out attack at the mesmer profession.

Beautifully done. Let this hate guide you a bit more.

Perhaps you might be able to beat mesmers, drown them in a sea of tears and qq.

Carry on

Shouldnt you make some kind of illusion to hide the sadness? That post didnt cut it.

As did yours. But you have obviously so much to add to the conversation.

This thread has moved from a rational conversation to an all out attack at the mesmer profession.

Beautifully done. Let this hate guide you a bit more.

Perhaps you might be able to beat mesmers, drown them in a sea of tears and qq.

Carry on

XII.9401:

I wholeheartedly support that the mesmer class be left alone as is. As well as the thief and guardian.

That guarantees that more of the remaining pvpers will be leaving the game for ESO with me.

Have fun dueling your own mesmer/thief class in arenas.

Very constructive, well though of and to the point. You must be proud of your thinking process. Oh, and by the way, I was impressed as well by bold characters when I found out how to do it. Impressive isn’t it?

Now, on a more serious note, I am all eyes for your suggestions. You seem to have so much to say.

Blackhat.4016:

Here is short idea which came to my mind:

Instead of nerfing/buffing there should be a rework.

Imo the skill is based on terrible skill design. A spammable invulnerability skill with damage on top of it. It’s pretty obvious a lot of players will complain about that.

On the other hand Mesmers don’t want a good skill to be nerfed which is understandable.

Instead of relying on melee combat and invulnerability the skill should be ranged. There would be no need for invulnerability anymore and the Mesmer would still be able to deal damage without dying.

Problem solved.

I actually like the fundamentals of this idea. Can even rework the skill to make melee without invuln viable. That would be exceptional by me. Upvoting the idea, maybe make a separate thread?

+ The sword as it is now does not feel like a ‘duelist’ sword, which was the intention behind the design. So I am definitively positive for a rework of sword in general.

Med.6150:

Your suggestion is a good one. No mesmer is going to be arguing for it, however, as they are very much aware of the fact that they never engage in melee anyway and that they’d rather have a 2 second invul every 8 seconds to cover their bad positioning.

Your rage still going on? Boy, do you have temper issues.

Mesmers that use sword for damage source have quite a good knowledge on positioning. Better than yours, from what I gather.

Mash Hog.5672:

Dest.7410:

Funny how PvE leveling curve is (almost) the exact opposite

But being maxed level is nearly required to enjoy the “end-game” such as fractals and dungeons.
Having a high rank in PvP doesn’t allow you to do more things.

I think it’s good; it gives /rank a method of showing off because these ranks are not easily gained.

Agreed

Funny how PvE leveling curve is (almost) the exact opposite

sorrow.2364:

Dest.7410:

Please tell me those two buttons to win in a class that needs to use 80% of its cooldowns to even harm someone?

I don’t know which button you have binded, but I think they are F1 and 2.

You mean shatters that require 3 clones/phantasms up + the combo to be quite neatly set up? Please tell me how I can shatter without clones (which use the other cds) and also please do tell me that I am expected to sit in place while I am killed, not use any defensive capabilities at all.

You are being idiotic and rather biased

sorrow.2364:

But yeah, probably people fear the nerf because they fear the balance… Who is capable to really compete with other people when you are used to press two buttons and win?

Please tell me those two buttons to win in a class that needs to use 80% of its cooldowns to even harm someone?

And now, it’s you who misinterprets and assumes way too much. I never claimed that mesmer is the worst class, or is at a bad state. I actually gave this ‘badge’ to warriors, if you read my earlier posts, a class that is quite kitten overall pvp wise as it stands now.

I have been trying to keep a cool head since the beginning of this thread, tried to reason with the flaming. But, guess what? Even more shouts of OP OP OP OP came back, some without understanding, some without caring.

Varonth.5830:

If these nerfs were so uncalled for, and all of them are class destroying nerfs, then mesmer should be in an unplayable state, with damage numbers like other classes using steady weapons, and incoming damage of naked necros.

Funny thing, they do have the lowest damage output from all other scholar classes (nevermind soldier/adventurers)

Funny thing is, they die easier than eles/necros.

Funny thing is, 2 of the nerfs we got was a buff cancelation, one of it was an across the board nerf. The rest did kitten the class, you don’t see mesmer tanks anymore… wonder why?

And one of our 2 hardest-hitting phantasms is blatantly malfunctioning for 5 months, since it was ‘fixed’

Oh, and the number of mesmers has dropped to 1/5 of what it was in tournaments (since that is apparently all that you care)

And excuse me for whining after receiving only nerfs thus far. At least I am doing it in a way that does not destroy other classes.

Med.6150:

What’s the reasoning for buffing something else, if the skill is being adjusted, because it is overperforming?

The reasoning is that it is not overperforming. But you refuse to see that, just because it has become, like another user said, the whine of the month.

Mesmers have more ways to avoid being killed outright, maybe, but guardians will always be better at them at soaking damage, period. And please, don’t talk about elementalist survivability in burst builds, at least not when we are talking about the same skill level with exceptional mesmers.

My whole point in trying to avert nerfs is that I have found out, after 8 months of constant nerfing, that they never stop. They cry about more and more abilities until there is none that can escape and be ‘good’ I do not particularly care about Blurred Frenzy as I have stopped using sword a long time ago. But I can absolutely say that these+ 5 secs can and WILL lead to even more nerfs. So no, for the first time in my 8 month silence, I cannot just say ’it’s ok’ because it is not.

Varonth.5830:

No class can oneshot a clone with autoattack.
Most classes cannot twoshot them, even with zerger.

cough staff guardians cough longbow warriors cough shortbow thieves cough grenade engis cough etc….

Varonth.5830:

Are you talking about weaponskills other then #1? If so, think about what the clone just accomplished. He put a cooldown on an enemies ability. That is still a gain for the mesmer.

Wasting 2-3 cds for one enemy cd? seems fair enough

Varonth.5830:

Even if they die in AoE, for example when you send them on a point, there is a high chance, that they tanked some AoE damage that could have harmed a player or damaging AI, like pets, or Elementals, because they count as one Entity towards the limit of 5 entities hit with AoE. Perhaps they even got AoE retaliation from blast finishers etc. Then they also deal back damage as they die.

Aoe ret would affect the attacker whether they faced clones or not. It is perhaps the only group defence ability except for IoL and feedback that mesmers can bring to the table in an aoe fight.

Varonth.5830:

Mesmers defense is that they can stay out of the fight better than other classes.
Stuff like phase retreat, and blink, clones absorbing projectiles etc. are enough defense.
It probably is still too much defense after a potentional Blurred Frenzy nerf. They should have to take defensive utilities for themself like any other class does if they want to survive, and so should zerger amulett hit them just as hard as other classes in terms of survivability.

Mesmers and Thieves are the masters of controlled combat, it even says so in class descriptions… want that changed?
And I’m quite sure that zerker guardian hit me harder than that thief/engi or even necro. Don’t even get started on eles.

Varonth.5830:

The reason people see warrior as cannonfodder is because like 90% of the warriors run the same build which isn’t working. When they die they complain about this build not working. I mean, why do they believe, that a warrior should be allowed to bring just their heal, dodgerolls and shieldblock as defensive, and go full offensive on the rest. Of course they are going to die fast.
Warrior have to get defensive just as much as other classes.
Yes it can work, if you are good, and/or the enemy is bad, but it shouldn’t be easymode.

Agreed. Loving warrior currently just because of this.

Varonth.5830:

Basically that is where Mesmer, and every other class going full offensive should be in terms of suvivability. Mesmer isn’t close to this. They can still take quite a while to take down.

And that’s usually because of misdirection of attacks, which is the main idea behind mesmers

Varonth.5830:

And saying that Med wants Mesmers to be easier to deal with. I guess he doesn’t have alot of problems with them, as he is #34 on the european leaderboards.

Oh, please, the #1 has been inactive for weeks. Leaderboards are a joke as of now. And just because he is a high-ranked player doesn’t mean he doesn’t have a hard time against certain classes.

Med.6150:

So basically you want people to move into range of homing shatters and swing at one of the 3 clones twice. You realize they’d blow up in your face, before you could kill them, unless you had some form of power based range damage and nothing else going on on top of that.

And there’s a reason every single class in game has access to aoe ranged abilities. use them? Or maybe that would force you to actually face the mesmer without gimping him first?

Med.6150:

Trying? My mesmer will Blurred Frenzy any class that tries to burst me. Around these parts people call that balanced risk vs. reward.

Yes, tell me how your mesmer uses blurred frenzy to escape warrior 100b for example (which is still considered one of the weakest classes in pvp). Oh right, you don’t

Med.6150:

In all fairness, you’ve yet to have anything going for you at all. You have no argument whatsoever, except the “we need to be invul while we burst, else we’d be warriors”.

Never said that

Med.6150:

Nowhere in that silly argument do you touch upon the fact that mesmers do not require melee range like warriors in the first place. You’re essentially a medium range class, that, if they happen to get caught by a melee, they’ll be able to invul up while doing damage to their pursuer.

And that means that gasp I would manage to survive 2 secs if chased by a melee class? That’s so op, destroy it. I’d rather argue that a good mesmer does not use sword at all for his defense, mainly because having a 2 sec invuln =/= a whole new skillset which is quite more useful. Swords are being used because our other main hand, the scepter, is the worst main hand currently in game, period.

Med.6150:

Again, you are not in melee range, unless somebody is catching up to you. You’re playing a 100% glass cannon (no idea if you do, I am stating this from the perspective of the general shatter meta build), you have a 4 second invul on a <47 second cool down, you have access to protection by whielding a staff, you have shadow steps, a full stun breaker and a semi-stun breaker on your weapon set. You have a 75+% uptime on vigor and you have multiple CC options on top of passive damage from any phantasms

And yet, you still see mesmers dropping like kitten on the first indication of serious burst.
Guess why?

Med.6150:

No other glass cannon has so much defense. Yet you argue you also need a 25% uptime invul on your weapon skill bar. I don’t even care if mesmers are op or not, I am just handing you a much needed reality check.

25% uptime invuln would mean that I am crit specced and staying in sword pretty much 100% of the time, which is by the way, certain death.

Oh, and glass cannon mesmers are long dead. They were burried in might nerfs, and still have a buggy iZerker dancing on their grave.

Thank you for your reality check, but please bring something else apart from your reality in it.

Med.6150:

Take another class and use your burst out of range of the target. See how that goes.

Sigh… just in case you haven’t noticed, these ‘homing burst’ clones/phantasms can be destroyed with 1 (maybe 2) hits

Try hitting another class while they’re using their burst ability and see how that goes.

In all fairness, you are hiding behind a reasonable facade while all you want is mesmer to be ‘easier to deal with’

Med.6150:

No, Blurred Frenzy is a crutch you’ve come to rely upon.

No, Blurred Frenzy is 100% the reason you don’t see mesmers and go ‘Yum, lunch’ (pretty much as everyone views warriors now)

Please do inform me for mesmer sources of perma prot? Oh right, whiners got that nerfed, even if the mesmer needed 2+phantasm in 100% uptime to achieve that.

Oh, and please, oh please, do tell me how iLeap works reliably. Or how every other class has damaging abilities that might do the damage stated.

Oh, and of course, disregard the implications a nerf might have to any and all other aspects of the game…..

To use your own words

Med.6150:

That’s kind distorted, don’t you think?

Varonth.5830:

Nerfing is a valid, and much better strategy. Nobody is asking for a Smiters Boon kind of nerf (in case you don’t know what this means: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Smiter%27s_Boon_%28PvP%29), but to bring it down to reasonable levels.

Played monk before it was cool.

You are talking about ‘buffing too much’ and ‘not nerfing too much’, might I ask to reverse it?

Going to say this again, the nerfs never stop.

This month Blurred Frenzy is ‘the’ ‘OP’ ability just because people have nothing else to complain about?

Stop and I mean STOP crying for nerfs, cry for bufs instead to make a difference!

That mesmer is killing you because of Blurred Frenzy? What would you need in your class to make you be on par with that?

But, please, by all means, avoid creative thinking. Carry on destroying skills one by one until your favourite skill is hit next. And then you’ll be a miserable player amongst miserable players….

Don’t like that? Maybe use constructive criticism.

Don’t destroy, create and improve! Is that too much to ask?

Psychogene.6780:

I agree with you about buffing the other weapons that are lacking.

So the mesmers best protection is to actually not be in melee in my opinion. If they had more options at melee range, there wouldn’t be a doubt they would be more OP then they are currently perceived. In regards to their armor and health, it has nothing to do with this argument since it varies with personal preference.

Buffs can be not specific to mesmers. As it stands now, warriors are in serious need of a buff in PvP while being quite OP in PvE. Almost the reverse can be said for mesmer and thief.

Instead of nerfing their good points, just buff their weaknesses. Blurred Frenzy in mesmers is a good skill? What do other classes have to be on par with it? That’s the mentality I want from a balancing team. It can be anything, from a warrior shout that ends invulnerability, a necro curse that is unblockable, an engineer elixir that allows them to copy the status of their oponent (making them invuln every time the mesmer is)

Why not improve other classes but destroy one?

And mesmer melee is mostly for PvE situations, unless of course it is one of the scenarios you described.

Psychogene.6780:

Wow, the over-reaction of some people …

I’ve only read some of the posts, but from what I gather no-one is asking for a full blown nerf to blurred frenzy.

The ‘Over-reaction’ ,as you have called it, come from being at the receiving end of nerfs since release. I was one of the first people to say ‘ok people, we knew it was broken’ to the izerker ‘fix’ (which utterly broke it), I was one of the first to write the ‘calm down’ messages to raging people during our might nerf, hell, I was one of the people that really tried to bring reason to people ranting about quickness nerf.

Oh, and I am against nerfing overall, I like buffing the lacking better than destroying the exceptional.

Before all the aforementioned nerfs, blurred frenzy was fine(!)

I wonder what has changed between then and now….

Blackhat.4016:

“you are noobs and have no clue how to balance the game”

Please do tell me about the balancing you have done. I am eager to hear about it.

Already made a post about that, people have been crying way too much for way too many mesmer abilities. If you are dying to a mesmer because of 2 secs invulnerability, even if he were to stay at sword at all times (which is suicidal btw), it means that you. are. doing. something. very. wrong.

Also, while at it, remove clones/phantasms from the game, because they are hard to deal with. Oh and make sure they remove shatters as well. Oh and please please please, make sure that mesmers get their health reduced to 12-15k max, they are far too hard to kill now apparently. Oh remove blink as well.

This train of thought will go on and on as long as there are people that believe that if something is too good, it should be removed by that class and not added to other classes. Oh wait, what’s that? Perma stealth thieves? Bunker eles? regen rangers? fearbomb/deathshroud necros? pretty much every class has things other classes do not, stop crying about it. Have you ever seen a mesmer ask for nerfs at Ele aoe? Or a mesmer crying because a thief got away, healed up, then killed them? Or when a pet revives the downed ranger and he stomps the mesmer?

Or, dare I say, when half of their abilities are still either bugged/working incorrectly or simply lackluster overall?

Mesmers have seen 8 and a half months of only nerfs (even the buffs we once got were removed pronto). The number of people playing mesmer has decreased up to a point that you rarely find them in PvE at all, in WvW they are portal monkeys and in Spvp they are, oh what? portal monkeys/swiftness providers.

This is the enjoyable class you wonderful whiners have created, little by little. And apparently you won’t rest until mesmer is only an NPC profession, or is erased entirely from the game.

I do actually enjoy phantasm build immensely, and I run a phantasmal regeneration + mantras build. You already assume too much. And yes, mesmers, the masters of misdirection and deceit can misdirect and are deceitful! Who would have guessed!

Really hoping this will get old fast… except there are always going to be noobs, and mesmers will always be there to rip them to shreds.

Oh, and there are many many people that are hiding behind mesmer chars believing to be op, only to be killed by the next average player.

Sad, sad, sad

And, yes I am talking about mesmers. People have been complaining about portal=nerfed, people have been complaining about might on shatters=nerfed, people have been complaining about quickness=nerf, people cried their eyes out about confusion in PvE=nerf

However.

Most (if not all) of these ‘changes’ were done on real numbers and facts, and even if they were not done in the most elegant way, the nerfs themselves were reasonable up to an extend.

For whoever’s sake you believe at, don’t and I mean DON’T think that crying about a certain skill/combo/trait etc. will bring about a nerf. It does not work that way, just makes people frustrated.

So, since I am talking about mesmers…. leave our blurred frenzy alone. You don’t see bazillions of mesmers running a sword build, guess why? Because even for the ‘OP’ blurred frenzy, it still lacks in many areas compared to, say, staff. AND it requires a good amount of skill to be used correctly. What, surprised that mesmers are actually a class that requires skill to kill you? More so than some other classes might I add.

Oh, and please can you notice the ‘great number’ of mesmer players in high-end pvp? In hotjoin, of course there are going to be many of them, just because the place is full of people that are not as good in pvp, so they get destroyed. But once you up the scale a little, the number of mesmers drops dramatically, just because it is not an OP class, as was expected by many.

In the recent months mesmer population has been decreasing nerf after nerf. If this carries on, you will have a mesmer-free game. Appealing? Let me rephrase it…. You will have a game that will be filled with other classes that you have to deal with! And some of them will be equally or more annoying than a mesmer.

But of course, any class that requires you to use your brains to fight it is OP…. I do have bad news for you.

Yes, this is a whine thread, and yes I play mesmer ankittenired of waiting for the patch notes to see what part of the profession got destroyed.

Just be reasonable at what you ask. There is always going to be a ‘strongest’ mesmer ability, be it a shatter, a fury-buffed phantasm, a team buff giving field or an invulnerability that also does damage (if the stars align that is)

And guess what? After that it’s going to be things like Phase retreat which do a whole grand of 0 damage and allows a clothie to escape. Who would have thought such an ability is needed?

Stop crying. It is useless.

Just remove clones and phantasms then. In the meantime remove ele attunements, thief stealth, guardian virtues, ranger and necro pets, engi turrets/toolbelts… of course don’t forget the essentail increase of damage to hundred blades!

Sarcasm aside, people are not meant to be able to revive themselves without help when under attack. Try to go down closer to your teammates perhaps?

Would give the ’You’ve been served’ Abbadon moment make so much more sense