again, using the word ‘by’ in the context of gaming 2 other definitions of the word make more sense for an MMO game.
Again, the definition of “by” you want to insist on is not valid in the context here. Not valid. Period.
Wow. Can’t believe we’re even discussing something this stupid and obvious. I’m done responding to your trolls.
Also, just so new visitors to the thread don’t miss it…
Eurogamer: How are you handling endgame loot – will we be farming bosses?
Colin Johanson: Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base. The rare stuff becomes the really awesome looking armours. It’s all about collecting the unique looking stuff and collecting all the other rare collectable items in the game: armour pieces, potentially different potions – a lot of that is still up in the air and we’ll finalise a lot of those reward systems as we get closer to release. And those come off of things like the bosses at the end of dungeons – the raids.
(edited by DocHolliday.5921)
um, nope, not wrong. But keep on being insulting, just proves that you have nothing to refute a valid point.
Yes, wrong. One hundred percent wrong. You have zero valid points in this entire thread. Not one.
So essentially gw2=virtue of justice while standing behind 2 hunters with windserpent pets, in karazan while corner tanking the final boss.
Lol! Brilliant post. Thanks!
sorry getting a little nostalgic here, OP talks about his gw1 experience and it reminded me of the impact the original game had on me – i remember the first time i got to yaks bend in gw1, it was probably in 2006-2007, looking back i loved how the change of environment suited the storyline progression, i remember getting this sense of having traveled a great distance and arriving at a refuge in the snow, i remember that big pig on the spit in the center of the outpost and just going and sitting by the fire, that was one thing the original nailed that the sequel didn’t – merging the change in landscape to the story progression to really give the player that sense of moving forward and making progress, and that success came from not over thinking what works but just doing what was fun, and imo thats how they need to start thinking again.
No need to apologize, that’s a very nice post.
I agree with and support OP 100%. I really miss those elements from WoW and CoH.
You must not have played World of Warcraft
That was TBC, my favorite part of WoW. That particular screenie is from BT, which I never managed to do. Now I’m sad. :-(
i just spam my skills and collect the bags!
Sounds legit.
Anets justification is that they made a slip with exotics. They never intended exotics to be so easy to obtain. Hence, ascended gear was implemented.
Actually, exotic gear is harder to obtain than they intended. Well, that is if you go by what they said when they were trying to sell us the game.
Eurogamer: How are you handling endgame loot – will we be farming bosses?
Colin Johanson: Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base. The rare stuff becomes the really awesome looking armours. It’s all about collecting the unique looking stuff and collecting all the other rare collectable items in the game: armour pieces, potentially different potions – a lot of that is still up in the air and we’ll finalise a lot of those reward systems as we get closer to release. And those come off of things like the bosses at the end of dungeons – the raids.
There are literally dozens of bugs that I still encounter that I reported in the beta. I’m not saying your problem from three whole patches ago isn’t real, I’m saying this team isn’t very good at fixing anything. Don’t hold your breath waiting.
That seems like a cleverly disguised attack on Anet staff.
Not very well disguised. There are probably countless more bugs that have been fixed that this dude doesn’t even know were there in the first place.
The fact that the game launched with that many bugs and problems and has operated under the condition of them for over year is disgraceful.
Here’s hoping EQN isn’t as big a letdown as this game has been, because I need a new MMORPG fix that’s worth my time.
I think my previous post was deleted, or at least I can’t see it….. yeah the Consulate Docks are it, but it is also a the mission that takes you to the main land.
Yeah, that’s quite odd. I can’t imagine why it would be deleted unless you accidentally did it yourself.
Maybe my memory on GW1 is fuzzy, but I recall halfway through the story I was level 20 (max level) and immediately able to purchase a full set of the best gear from a vendor. Mind you I did a “proper” play though in that game, not rushing.
Can anyone else confirm this?In Prophecies, you could have someone run you through Lornar’s Pass down to Droknar’s Forge for a nominal fee (I used to do that with my Warrior actually, before they made it overly difficult for Warriors) where you could pick up a full set of top statistical gear for the equivalent of about 5G in GW2. This would have been when you were around level 8-12.
In Nightfall, you could create a new character, take about 15-30 minutes to get to Kamadan, then pay someone an even smaller fee to take you to the small area nearby (forget what it was called) where you could buy top statistical gear for again, the equivalent of about 5G in GW2. This wold have been around level 2-3.
Yes, thank you.
Mind you, I’m talking about a typical player who starts GW1 from scratch and no knowledge of the shortcut (they wouldn’t have the money to purchase it, anyway).
But what I was trying to say was that by the time you did hit level 20, you had already enough money to buy the best gear straight away. And that’s the typical/“casual” expected way to play.
That’s something that is definitely not true in GW2, and is indeed inconsistent with Colin’s statement.
If that statement was in the context of GW1, and level 80 -> level 20, I would not think of it twice since it would hold true (again, that’s assuming my memories of that game is correct).
Your memories appear to be correct.
Maybe my memory on GW1 is fuzzy, but I recall halfway through the story I was level 20 (max level) and immediately able to purchase a full set of the best gear from a vendor. Mind you I did a “proper” play though in that game, not rushing.
Can anyone else confirm this?In Prophecies, you could have someone run you through Lornar’s Pass down to Droknar’s Forge for a nominal fee where you could pick up a full set of top statistical gear for the equivalent of about 5G in GW2. This would have been when you were around level 8-12.
In Nightfall, you could create a new character, take about 15-30 minutes to get to Kamadan, then pay someone an even smaller fee to take you to the small area nearby (forget what it was called) where you could buy top statistical gear for again, the equivalent of about 5G in GW2. This wold have been around level 2-3.
Consulate Dock runs…. those were the days.
Ah yes, thank you. I often kept a character at the right place in the story chain just for that run. Easy money.
Maybe my memory on GW1 is fuzzy, but I recall halfway through the story I was level 20 (max level) and immediately able to purchase a full set of the best gear from a vendor. Mind you I did a “proper” play though in that game, not rushing.
Can anyone else confirm this?
In Prophecies, you could have someone run you through Lornar’s Pass down to Droknar’s Forge for a nominal fee (I used to do that with my Warrior actually, before they made it overly difficult for Warriors) where you could pick up a full set of top statistical gear for the equivalent of about 5G in GW2. This would have been when you were around level 8-12.
In Nightfall, you could create a new character, take about 15-30 minutes to get to Kamadan, then pay someone an even smaller fee to take you to the small area nearby (forget what it was called) where you could buy top statistical gear for again, the equivalent of about 5G in GW2. This wold have been around level 2-3.
the word ‘by’ means next to or close to, also means upto and beyond. Close to, well that is going to be a matter of opinion, getting ascended is beyond hitting level 80.
OK you did answer it, this thread is moving to quickly. Even by that definition (which is hardly common usage) they have gone back on their original goals.
No he didn’t. Don’t let his BS fool you. There is no level beyond level 80, so “by level 80” means exactly what it sounds like: “by the time you reach level 80”. Currently, exotic and ascended gear is “the best statistical gear in the game”. Therefore, that statement currently means that they intend for players to have the best exotic & ascended gear by the time they hit level 80. There literally is no other legitimate way to read this. (Obviously they reneged on that though, which is the whole reason we’re discussing this at all.)
Story & Characters
This specific content is missing a lot of depth and emotion. The voice acting is great, yet every other aspect feels dull in comparison. The current form of delivery for our story is just simple NPCs standing around, cool voice acting and some random emotes we’ve seen a million times. It’s hardly enough to make one feel like they should care in the first place.On the flip side, there were recent attempts that did a magnificent job at driving character and story. I’m, of course, referring to the gorgeous artistic-type cutscenes:
http://youtu.be/nRSN6Xm2MYw
http://youtu.be/g9SXF27LFyYThose both had some great development and you can actually begin to relate to the characters involved. Why is that? One thing to consider is the level of acting. There’s much more emotion being expressed, versus some NPC standing around doing nothing and an obnoxious camera flying around like a Michael Bay film.
And this is doubly unfortunate for GW2, because even GW1 did significantly better in this department. They didn’t even just stick with the same formula, which would have been bad enough; no, they found a way to make it worse.
Oh BTW OP, I think the word you were looking for in your title was “constructive” rather than “constructure”.
(edited by DocHolliday.5921)
Because this is relevant to this issue as well, here’s an article about ArenaNet’s original intentions for the game. I’m quoting the especially pertinent part.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-27-guild-wars-2-preview
Eurogamer: How are you handling endgame loot – will we be farming bosses?
Colin Johanson: Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base. The rare stuff becomes the really awesome looking armours. It’s all about collecting the unique looking stuff and collecting all the other rare collectable items in the game: armour pieces, potentially different potions – a lot of that is still up in the air and we’ll finalise a lot of those reward systems as we get closer to release. And those come off of things like the bosses at the end of dungeons – the raids.
So there you have it folks, straight from ArenaNet. Ascended gear with increased stats has no business being in the game at all, and nevermind WvW.
If they actually wanted to do what they said, at this point they either need to roll back stats on exotic and ascended gear to match that of rare gear, or they need to start selling exotic/ascended gear sets for a typical amount of gold that a casual player will have accumulated by level 80.
lol, yet nobody complained that they didn’t get free exotics the moment they hit level 80 in their mail box, or at a vendor. Perhaps because people didn’t really take that quote meaning that you would not have to earn the best statistical loot, and didn’t mean you would have the best gear right when you hit 80.
the word ‘by’ means next to or close to, also means upto and beyond. Close to, well that is going to be a matter of opinion, getting ascended is beyond hitting level 80.
I guess people didn’t complain about it because they hadn’t seen this statement, straight from ArenaNet. Here, I’ll post it again, just so we can both have the pleasure of reading it again.
Eurogamer: How are you handling endgame loot – will we be farming bosses?
Colin Johanson: Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base. The rare stuff becomes the really awesome looking armours. It’s all about collecting the unique looking stuff and collecting all the other rare collectable items in the game <snip>
permAlready commented on that, and it doesn’t mean what you think it means.
Frankly, I don’t give a kitten what you think it means. I know exactly what it means.
Amongst other things, it also means that every single thing you posted in this entire thread is wrong. Not arguably wrong, just straight up wrong. Have fun being wrong!
(edited by DocHolliday.5921)
lol, yet nobody complained that they didn’t get free exotics the moment they hit level 80 in their mail box, or at a vendor. Perhaps because people didn’t really take that quote meaning that you would not have to earn the best statistical loot, and didn’t mean you would have the best gear right when you hit 80.
the word ‘by’ means next to or close to, also means upto and beyond. Close to, well that is going to be a matter of opinion, getting ascended is beyond hitting level 80.
I guess people didn’t complain about it because they hadn’t seen this statement, straight from ArenaNet. Here, I’ll post it again, just so we can both have the pleasure of reading it again.
Eurogamer: How are you handling endgame loot – will we be farming bosses?
Colin Johanson: Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base. The rare stuff becomes the really awesome looking armours. It’s all about collecting the unique looking stuff and collecting all the other rare collectable items in the game <snip>
perm
I always did think exotic gear was way too grindy and not in the spirit of GW, and guess what, I was right! It’s also not in the spirit of GW2! So forget about ascended gear, even exotic gear isn’t supposed to have better stats.
(edited by DocHolliday.5921)
Very false. They did advertise this game as a horizontal end game. They did so for years. They discussed and commented on this while it was still in the very early alpha stages of what they called “Guild Wars: Utopia”. I waited years for this game to come out and kept up with every bit of news as I possibly could. It was advertised as a skill based game with the end game focusing on a visual grind not stat grind.
Feel free to prove this.
It’s already been proven. Now the burden is on you to prove they didn’t.
Provide proof of them saying they were not going to introduce any new tiers after the start of the game.
I would, but I can’t, because they removed the content after the ascended gear fiasco to hide the fact that they broke their word.
But here’s the link for you, enjoy!
http://web.archive.org/web/20120709210637/http://www.arena.net/blog/the-golden-rules-of-guild-wars-2
There you go, and now point to me where in that article they stated there would be no new tier of gear when the game starts? Cause I read it, and it does not say that at all, doesn’t even talk about gear at all.
Ok sure, they never explicitly stated “WE WILL NOT PUT IN NEW TIERS OF GEAR”. But they were constantly saying “there will be no gear grind!” That was deliberately misleading, and GW1 fans were obviously expected that to interpret that as “no new gear tiers”. They certainly made sure we can never trust them again about not putting things in the game we don’t want.
Enjoy this thread about what people initially thought about ascended gear. Lots of people felt betrayed. It’s clear they got their “no gear grind” message across. It’s equally clear it was a straight-up lie.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Thoughts-on-Ascended-Gear-Merged-threads/first
I’ll put a few good examples here.
Less than three months in, and the power creep begins. WTK*, guys? I though the end game was suppose to be about having fun and chasing cosmetics, not grinding out gear upgrades.
*what the kitten
And the gear grind starts… Time to find another game it seems
Yea I read that and was like “oh… no… no no no no for kitten’s sake no”.
I don’t know why would they do that but… I don’t know. It makes no sense, they basically driven all the people that wanted the gear treadmill away from GW2, and IMHO it’s a good thing. And now that? Seems kinda weird.
Well I guess we’ll have to wait and see… But I’m watching you aNet. Please, don’t go off and brake my heart.(We all know how that turned out. Heart broken.)
Did they lie, or is it simply a difference of opinion of what a gear grind is? What a grind is absolutely going to be a matter of opinion. Yours and others opinion differ than Anets and others opinion.
Kill these same meta bosses over and over again to collect 500 of this. Run these same dungeons over and over again to collect 500 of that. Run the champ train for a while to collect 500 of those. Now you either farm gold to buy the wood and metals or go scour the countryside to farm nodes over and over again to get a bunch of everything else. Remember to craft some pieces everyday cause you can only craft 1 a day and in 5 (if you have no life) days you will get 1 ascended weapon. Lather, rinse, repeat as needed. Nope, doesn’t sound like a grind at all.
Considering that at minimum you can get 339-445 Dragonite ores by doing each boss/activity that gives them as rewards 1 time each. That is not a grind at all. Getting the other 500 each of the others are easy to get as well, you’ll get the majority of them by just doing what gives them 1 time each.
Considering that no casual player ever is going to have 339-445 Dragonite ores by level 80 your argument is complete and utter bullkitten.
I’m just going to post this here again, because it’s impossible to post this too often.
Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game.
It was never advertised as a horizontal progression game.
Sure it was.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-27-guild-wars-2-preview
Eurogamer: How are you handling endgame loot – will we be farming bosses?
Colin Johanson: Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base. The rare stuff becomes the really awesome looking armours. It’s all about collecting the unique looking stuff and collecting all the other rare collectable items in the game <snip>
perm
/thread. That is all. Debate over. ArenaNet, where’s my free ascended gear I was supposed to have by 80 as a casual player?
This is not whining due to how to earn the gear. It is the principle of the matter. When a game is advertised as a horizontal progression game like it predecessor you don’t add a vertical jump in the game 3 months after lunch and try to claim it was on the table to begin with.
I don’t ever remember then advertising it as a Horizontal progression game with no vertical progression. In the article that another posted above from the Eurogamer, they even stated they never said there would be no vertical progression. Looks like to me people made assumptions and somehow they turned into “facts”
Very false. They did advertise this game as a horizontal end game. They did so for years. They discussed and commented on this while it was still in the very early alpha stages of what they called “Guild Wars: Utopia”. I waited years for this game to come out and kept up with every bit of news as I possibly could. It was advertised as a skill based game with the end game focusing on a visual grind not stat grind.
Then 3 months into the game (note this is the time a vast majority of the pro player base has left ~aka the old super leet Guild Wars 1 guilds~) they completely gave up with what they had touted for 2 years plus and just started doing whatever would make the most money.
Tada temporary bs living story crap. Made just to add more things to the gem store to get you to buy them. You can not even being to say that the living story updates are even remotely decent in terms of game play and lore. They are nothing more than short zerg fests from here to there. The only update that had any remotely decent things in it was the Pavilion and even then, it was horribly done.
Lets end with the biggest pile that this game has, BUGS. Bugs from the early stages of BETA that have not been fixed. I don’t know about you guys, but I would be severely embarrassed if I made a game and just left it completely in beta/alpha stage. Just to name a few that have not been fixed since the launch of the game.
-Warrior Fast Hands Bug: When dropping banners via weapon switching, your weapon swap will go on cool down without actually swapping your weapons.
-Rush: Does not track correctly. Can not hit a target that simply moves left to right.
(oh, they updated it to make it smoother? yeah didn’t fix the problem. Words are different from actions.)-Eathshaker: Does not hit targets who are slightly higher than player character. As in 0.001 units higher on the hill.
etc..The list goes on and on for multiple classes for multiple different things. Lets not forget that slayer potions didn’t actually work for a couple of months and instead of giving you the 10% bonus to your damage, you got a +10% bonus to taking damage, yay!
Stop trying to white knight this game. There are huge problems even if you care to realize them or not.
Sadly, I can’t give this post all the +1s it deserves. So I’ll just quote it so people have the chance to read it again.
I never said it should be removed, I’m just saying that it really does make a difference for a lot of people. There have been many times when my party pushed off a group twice our size (only 1 or 2 up levels) by the skin of our teeth because we were more organized and better players. If they had ascended gear and we didn’t we would not have succeeded. If you take a look at WvW as a whole, the majority of the worlds are underpopulated cause the top 3 stole all the WvW guilds. Ascended affects more people than you think.
At this point, it’s safe to say that we’re both right. Zerg vs Zerg fights take number of players over strength of gear. 1 vs 1 takes skill and gear in account.
Since we can continue to argue both our points, and both be correct, I say we call this a draw, and leave the game as it is.
You really are unbelievable. And that’s all I’m going to say, because the response your post deserves should never show up on any forums, ever.
The only numbers that matter are the amount of opponents you face on the battlefield.
In terms of the weekly matchup, this is true. This is NOT true for individual skirmishes. Even zerg vs zerg where the initial burst matters. Having ascended gives you higher burst on contact or more vit/toughness to survive the enemy burst.
Ascended gear has better stats than Exotic gear, but there’s no advantage to the player who wears Ascended gear.
This is just…uh…I don’t even know how someone can think this way. Higher stats is an advantage. How is it not? You may argue there are more important things that stats, but that does not negate the fact that higher stats is an advantage.
At this point, I’m convinced those people are just pathological liars. Nothing else really explains it any more.
Provide proof of them saying they were not going to introduce any new tiers after the start of the game.
I would, but I can’t, because they removed the content after the ascended gear fiasco to hide the fact that they broke their word.
But here’s the link for you, enjoy!
http://web.archive.org/web/20120709210637/http://www.arena.net/blog/the-golden-rules-of-guild-wars-2
There you go, and now point to me where in that article they stated there would be no new tier of gear when the game starts? Cause I read it, and it does not say that at all, doesn’t even talk about gear at all.
Ok sure, they never explicitly stated “WE WILL NOT PUT IN NEW TIERS OF GEAR”. But they were constantly saying “there will be no gear grind!” That was deliberately misleading, and GW1 fans were obviously expected that to interpret that as “no new gear tiers”. They certainly made sure we can never trust them again about not putting things in the game we don’t want.
Enjoy this thread about what people initially thought about ascended gear. Lots of people felt betrayed. It’s clear they got their “no gear grind” message across. It’s equally clear it was a straight-up lie.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Thoughts-on-Ascended-Gear-Merged-threads/first
I’ll put a few good examples here.
Less than three months in, and the power creep begins. WTK*, guys? I though the end game was suppose to be about having fun and chasing cosmetics, not grinding out gear upgrades.
*what the kitten
And the gear grind starts… Time to find another game it seems
Yea I read that and was like “oh… no… no no no no for kitten’s sake no”.
I don’t know why would they do that but… I don’t know. It makes no sense, they basically driven all the people that wanted the gear treadmill away from GW2, and IMHO it’s a good thing. And now that? Seems kinda weird.
Well I guess we’ll have to wait and see… But I’m watching you aNet. Please, don’t go off and brake my heart.
(We all know how that turned out. Heart broken.)
The point you’re missing is that there is no real advantage in WvW.
No, you’re ignoring the fact that there is. You have no point.
So back to the topic. Ascended gear has better stats than Exotic gear, but there’s no advantage to the player who wears Ascended gear. The only numbers that matter are the amount of opponents you face on the battlefield.
That has been factually proven false. Over. And over. And over. STOP LYING.
It was never advertised as a horizontal progression game. All they said was that you dont need to grind, which is still true because as far as unaware if, apart from very high level fractals, there’s no gear-checks in game.
Wow. Just wow. Even in that article I just linked, they’re still advertising it as a horizontal progression game.
We do intend to focus on horizontal
Did you miss that part? The double-talk in that article is just fantastic.
Again, did you miss the part where they said they never said there would be no vertical progression? You going to take out one phrase out of the whole article and ignore the rest and still say they are advertising it as a Horizontal progression game, despite the article didn’t say that at all? Now I know where your so called “facts” come from, gross misrepresentation of what was actually said.
I won’t dignify that with a response.
Provide proof of them saying they were not going to introduce any new tiers after the start of the game.
I would, but I can’t, because they removed the content after the ascended gear fiasco to hide the fact that they broke their word.
But here’s the link for you, enjoy!
(edited by DocHolliday.5921)
It was never advertised as a horizontal progression game. All they said was that you dont need to grind, which is still true because as far as unaware if, apart from very high level fractals, there’s no gear-checks in game.
Wow. Just wow. Even in that article I just linked, they’re still advertising it as a horizontal progression game.
We do intend to focus on horizontal
Did you miss that part? The double-talk in that article is just fantastic. This is the kind of trouble you get yourself in when you try to advertise two conflicting features. It’s truly disappointing coming from them though, because they’re the one developer that actually got it right the first time. But instead of following on their own success and learning from others’ mistakes, they instead decided to repeat those mistakes. It’s just amazing.
(edited by DocHolliday.5921)
1) You missed out a very important sentence in that article which stated ‘we have no plans to introduce another tier if rarity like Ascended’.
No, I didn’t. They also said they weren’t going to introduce any new tiers after the start of the game. Then they put in Ascended. Earlier this year (after the article I linked) they said they had no plans to introduce more new tiers this year. That part I can believe. The new tiers are, in fact, not coming this year. But they are coming. If you truly believe otherwise, you are a fool.
2) it depends on how you use it. What happened here is that since there was no statistical progression for doing dungeons, JPs, or anything at all really after 80 since you would’ve got enough money to buy a set of exotics, people didn’t even bother doing them and just said tgere’s nothing to do.
What? That’s not even coherent.
Did Ascended gear make dungeons obselete? I got enough emp stars to make 4 Ascended weapons and I’m still doing them, and I don’t think I’m alone. Having vertical progression doesn’t make content obsolete if you implemented it right.
Even WoW didn’t make anything obsolete in the first 14 months. When you can get a full set of ascended gear, yes, you will have no need for exotic gear and all those instances will be obsoleted. That’s coming some time next year.
4) what worked for GW1 doesn’t nessecarily work for GW2.
Wow, what a vague and pointless statement.
Like I pointed out, people were leaving after 80. Did they all get their Legendaries and 350-lode skins at 80? No.
Again, what a vague and pointless statement. Were you trying to go somewhere with this babble?
It will, once they introduce the next tier of gear.
You got absolutely nothing to base this prediction off of. They introduced a new tier, and yet the content is still balanced around fine (Blue) gear, they haven’t introduced any content that is gated by having higher stats than fine gear.
Then why introduce the gear if it isn’t needed?
Because many people like to get higher numbers, they find that enjoyable.
And just as many find it annoying, while many others just couldn’t care less. Meanwhile, the players who DO want “higher numbers” are a lot more likely to quit sooner and be less profitable for the developer, as I already explained above.
What you call grind, I call being rewarded for playing the game the same way I have been playing it since level 1.
You were running fractals from level 1? Really?
I hate grinding, which is why I wont go for Legendary unless by happen chance, but ascended is far from a grind when I can get it through normal game play with no grinding needed. But when we have a lot of people who consider leveling up as grinding, it is no surprise that something that will take more than a few days to get would also be considered as grinding. /shrug
You never played GW1, did you? Even most exotic gear is a grind. Only the crafted stuff isn’t. With ascended, even the crafted stuff is a grind – and time-gated to boot.
Played Guild Wars 1 for many years, since the day it launched, was even a part of their beta events. Again, what you call grind, I don’t.
Really? You don’t consider doing the same mind-numbing thing over and over a grind? Please, tell us how you define “grind”. Pretty sure your definition is 100% unique.
Also, you still didn’t tell me how you were running fractals from level 1. I want to hear about that as well.
The problem is not about killng people with crazy regen .
It’s about PvP being a borefest when you fight bunkers
Only . I don’t wanna waste 2 minutes on 1 person if i know
Im better than him and only his regen prevents me
To stomp him in 5 secs .
Yeah, that’s kinda the point of bunker builds. Doh?
It will, once they introduce the next tier of gear.
You got absolutely nothing to base this prediction off of.
Did you read the article I linked, or even the part I quoted? No? Didn’t think so.
They introduced a new tier, and yet the content is still balanced around fine (Blue) gear, they haven’t introduced any content that is gated by having higher stats than fine gear.
Fractals are balanced around blue gear? Seriously? Got any more “factoids” to pull from that posterior orifice?
The amount of heals is ridiculous and it should be fixed.
Funny thing, the amount of heals is dismissed as useless in PvE.
It’s too bad we can’t go back in time and introduce ‘a t s e.96.14’ to PvP resto druids during TBC. That would be hilarious.
Or warriors and rogues with their mace stun procs. It goes both ways.
Oh god. Thanks for that horrible memory.
What you call grind, I call being rewarded for playing the game the same way I have been playing it since level 1.
You were running fractals from level 1? Really?
I hate grinding, which is why I wont go for Legendary unless by happen chance, but ascended is far from a grind when I can get it through normal game play with no grinding needed. But when we have a lot of people who consider leveling up as grinding, it is no surprise that something that will take more than a few days to get would also be considered as grinding. /shrug
You never played GW1, did you? Even most exotic gear is a grind. Only the crafted stuff isn’t. With ascended, even the crafted stuff is a grind – and time-gated to boot.
I don’t quite see how this make it a treadmill. Its vertical progression, but it doesn’t make it a treadmill until they keep adding tiers, which they seem to be quite against.
They will keep adding tiers.
Here’s an interesting article from almost a year ago on the topic.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-11-27-arenanet-holds-frank-reddit-debate-on-guild-wars-2-loot-grind
They toss around a lot of mumbo-jumbo to obfuscate exactly what their plans are, but they do finally make it pretty clear in these paragraphs:
On the general topic of vertical progression – i.e. going upwards in power rather than sideways or horizontal: being as powerful but different – Whiteside said Guild Wars 2 has it and “we do intend to keep moving forward with this philosophy”.
“We have never said there would be no vertical progression,” he wrote. "We do intend to focus on horizontal but we will have vertical progression moving forward with the focus on zero grind and a very low power curve.
Thanks to the ascended mess, we know exactly what they mean by “zero grind” and “very low power curve”.
No, they never came right out and told us there would be no vertical progression, but they sure wanted us to believe it. That’s what got all the GW1 fans hooked and started the ball rolling. It’s a lot easier to get more players to join a game that already has a bunch of players.
Vertical progression isn’t necessarily a bad thing because people like progression.
Actually it is, and I’ll explain why.
1. Supplying vertical progression is always a losing battle. Always. The players that want it can never be supplied enough progression fast enough and will always quit as soon as they burn through whatever content you have available, which is very quickly because these players are almost across the board power-gamers of some sort. Providing progression for them keeps them around another month or two at best. Even slower, average players can easily play through vertical progression content far more quickly than developers can produce it.
2. Vertical progression always creates power creep and balancing nightmares.
3. Vertical progression means you have to create new content far faster than if you didn’t have it, because it obsoletes old content. A player in GW1 who started when Nightfall was released could still go back and find all the endgame content in Prophecies and Factions 100% useful and relevant. WoW, on the other hand, is one of the best-designed examples of vertical progression ever, and it has dozens of instances that almost no one ever visits any more because there’s no point.
Not having Ascended gear doesn’t bar you from content. I don’t see the point of going into the WvW argument.
It will, once they introduce the next tier of gear.
Ascended gear was beneficial to the game for other reasons regarding making content not dead as well. Did you ever actually see people doing Temples before it was added?
And it would have been just as effective at that if it had been merely cosmetic. GW1 proved that over and over.
(edited by DocHolliday.5921)
The point you’re missing is that there is no real advantage in WvW.
No, you’re ignoring the fact that there is. You have no point.
Mind my use of the word adding. Trinklets were in game before all this fuss started.
No, that’s a cop-out. This thread is about ALL ascended gear, not just some arbitrary pieces that got added after some arbitrary point in time. You can’t now try to claim that your “5%” figure is only for “everything but trinkets”. Go peddle that BS somewhere else. Again, epic fail.
Now without commenting on how aggressive you seem to be, I would like to point out that by your logic, we need to strip out WvW ranks in in its entirety. Because thats a bigger grind than anything else apart from Legendaries in the game and offers very significant benefits.
I won’t say that we shouldn’t, but if we did that, would people be happy about it?
Yes, after how many pages of people posting the same pointless irrelevant arguments I finally got aggressive. Sue me.
And yes, I personally would be perfectly fine with stripping out WvW ranks. Would other people be happy about it? Some would, some wouldn’t. I have no idea where the divide would be. I’m not arguing for it. But that’s also irrelevant to this discussion. The main reason WvW players have an issue with ascended gear in the game mode is because some of the pieces can only be obtained from specific PvE content. Your ranks question is a different issue altogether, best suited for another thread.
The point you’re missing is that there is no real advantage in WvW.
No, you’re ignoring the fact that there is. You have no point.
Mind my use of the word adding. Trinklets were in game before all this fuss started.
No, that’s a cop-out. This thread is about ALL ascended gear, not just some arbitrary pieces that got added after some arbitrary point in time. You can’t now try to claim that your “5%” figure is only for “everything but trinkets”. Go peddle that BS somewhere else. Again, epic fail.
The fact is that no matter how you look at it, the guy wearing ascended has a statistical advantage over the the guy that is wearing exotic. Math does not lie! Sure there are many variables when it comes to WvW battles and there are player skill levels to take into account but an increase in stats always has an effect on the outcome of the battle. It might not be easily measurable among all the other imbalances in WvW but it does have an effect. Cause the math does not lie. To those of you saying that you get tons of kills from playing with an up leveled toon, good for you. I have never been beaten by an up level, EVER!! If you are lvl 80 wearing yellows I will crush you unless you are a very very good player. Makes we wonder what kind of baddies you are playing against. However, I don’t think Ascended should be removed from WvW, I think it should have never been added to the game to begin with but that is another topic all together.
I tend to think that there’s a limit to how imbalanced anything can be before adding any more imbalance won’t make much of a difference. WvW already has WvW ranks, food, zerg sizes, presence of organised WvW-centtric guilds, availability of siege, etc etc to screw over balance, adding 5% stat differences won’t change much.
This, right after a post detailing that the stat difference is 10.3%, not 5%. Epic fail.
So in closing, THE OVERALL DAMAGE INCREASE FROM EXOTIC TO CURRENTLY AVAILABLE ASCENDED GEAR IS ROUGHLY 10.3%.
TL:DR Damage gain is around 10.3%
And that’s before ascended armor. So much for no gear treadmill.
Good info, thanks.
Edit: out of curiosity, could you also do a comparison using only gear that is available in both exotic and ascended? That might give us some idea what kind of increase we will see once we have full ascended.
The amount of heals is ridiculous and it should be fixed.
Funny thing, the amount of heals is dismissed as useless in PvE.
It’s too bad we can’t go back in time and introduce ‘a t s e.96.14’ to PvP resto druids during TBC. That would be hilarious.
You actually can’t place important story in some dungeons. Imagine if the conclusion to a long arc of plot involves having to beat a hardcore dungeon which only about 5% of players manage, wouldn’t that suck?
Same with the new TA dungeon. That path is almost definitely the hardest dungeon path in the game bar maybe Arah P4, and I’m willing to bet that probably most players havn’t completed it.
Regarding the ‘collossal’ mistake of leaving out a lot of GW1’s mechanics. Its very subjective which areas they place in, for example, a lot of people would absolutely hate it if they ever brought heroes and henchmen back because that wrecked PUGing and grouplay in PvE in general, whilst we’ve also got a ton of people asking for its return.
Giving variety is good, but you often end up sacrificing balance for it, simply because it becomes very hard to balance things. Then balance becomes constantly changing the meta instead of trying to balance all builds.
Agree more or less with most of your points, but gotta disagree with the premise of your last paragraph. If I understand correctly, you’re implying that it’s therefore better to leave out the variety, and I disagree. It’s impossible to balance different builds, period. The only way you can ever really balance things is by making everything identical. This is why in any kind of PvP game with different skills and such, the balancing is never done. So if you can’t actually balance it anyway, why not give variety? I never saw more complaints about balance in GW than any other game. As far as I can tell, that system worked just as well or better balance-wise as any system I’ve ever seen in any MMORPG for PvP.
I’m not saying to leave out variety, I’m saying that for what they wanted the game to become, GW1’s system would not work for PvP.
The reason why GW2 removed some of the variety in favor for balance was because it wanted to go eSports, which heavily scrutinizes balance. Whether that decision was good or bad, who knows?
PS: frankly I think they should give up the idea of eSports altogether, because in my opinion, becoming an eSport and turning your game into a competition removes most of the fun factor and adds in a ton of red tape.
So I simply misunderstood you. Thanks for clarifying.
They exist lol.
For example: Necro can do that like crazy and mesmer also have some tools for that.I am almost 100% sure that the user you quoted was using sarcasm.
I think the response you were looking for was
“Whoosh!”
Then you should consider playing SPvP.
I have no interest in SPvP.
Open world PvP (as in WvW) is quite fun, even though it’ll never be truly balanced. That’s because you can’t control how many players from the other server will play at any given time. Even if you balance the gear in WvW, that balance gets flushed down the toilet as soon as you notice you’re outnumbered 2 to 1.
And it could be even more fun. We’ve already gone over this. It’s no more relevant now than it was five pages back. None of this is any kind of argument against removing ascended gear advantage from WvW.
You actually can’t place important story in some dungeons. Imagine if the conclusion to a long arc of plot involves having to beat a hardcore dungeon which only about 5% of players manage, wouldn’t that suck?
Same with the new TA dungeon. That path is almost definitely the hardest dungeon path in the game bar maybe Arah P4, and I’m willing to bet that probably most players havn’t completed it.
Regarding the ‘collossal’ mistake of leaving out a lot of GW1’s mechanics. Its very subjective which areas they place in, for example, a lot of people would absolutely hate it if they ever brought heroes and henchmen back because that wrecked PUGing and grouplay in PvE in general, whilst we’ve also got a ton of people asking for its return.
Giving variety is good, but you often end up sacrificing balance for it, simply because it becomes very hard to balance things. Then balance becomes constantly changing the meta instead of trying to balance all builds.
Agree more or less with most of your points, but gotta disagree with the premise of your last paragraph. If I understand correctly, you’re implying that it’s therefore better to leave out the variety, and I disagree. It’s impossible to balance different builds, period. The only way you can ever really balance things is by making everything identical. This is why in any kind of PvP game with different skills and such, the balancing is never done. So if you can’t actually balance it anyway, why not give variety? I never saw more complaints about balance in GW than any other game. As far as I can tell, that system worked just as well or better balance-wise as any system I’ve ever seen in any MMORPG for PvP.
But back on topic. WvW is open world PvP. There is no forced gear balance as in SPvP. So you can walk in with any type of gear your character has, and start playing. If you run around fully stacked with Ascended, you have no more chance to take Stone Mist, than your teammate wearing all Masterwork gear.
No one cares if it’s “open world” PvP or not. GW1 proved that having balanced gear makes PvP better, not worse, no matter what kind of PvP it is.
Why do people keep drawing comparisons to GW1? I’m pretty sure Anet never said that with GW2 they were setting out to make GW1 only in an open world.
So I really don’t get why people keep saying stuff like “but in gw1 it was this specific way”. Doesn’t make sense to me. If you want GW1 go play that game.
Because GW2 was heavily marketed as being “GW1 only better”. It’s not.
So your solution is to go play a game that has had zero content updates in 6 years? Actually, that’s probably not a bad solution, because despite having no new content in that timespan it STILL offers more fun than GW2. Five years of work, and compared to an 8-year-old game that has had no updates in 6 years, this one still loses. That’s just sad. I’d probably still be playing GW1 if my account hadn’t got hacked back in ’09.
Actually, Anet admitted that they underestimated the player base’s dedication to the game. Exotics were the final tier, until a majority of the players maxed out within months of the game’s release.
I don’t see a problem with this.
So they added the next, and supposedly last tier, which is Ascended. So it wasn’t because of the vocal minority of the game that triggered it, it was a vast majority of active players.
They assumed that since a “majority” of players had exotics that we wanted another full tier of gear? Oh wait, they said it was going to be added from the start but didn’t tell anyone and are implementing it horribly. A player’s actions now does not tell you what they would like to see happen in the future.
And seeing as you have access to anet’s metrics, please let me know the number of full and non-full exotic players in October. If you can’t, then you can’t say kitten about anything being a majority.
Considering that Exotics are pretty common and cheap, that’s enough evidence to back Anet’s position on the matter.
And considering their track record of never once adding any new, stronger gear in gw1 I don’t see why they’d think everyone getting max gear quickly was a problem.
Unless of course they thought they needed to add ascended to keep the locusts here.
Which it didn’t anyway.
This, exactly. Putting in vertical progression to keep the people happy who demand it is always a losing battle. You can’t possibly keep the progression going fast enough to keep them busy, and they’ll just stick around another month or two, until they’ve burned through the new stuff. Even WoW couldn’t keep them around.
Actually, Anet admitted that they underestimated the player base’s dedication to the game. Exotics were the final tier, until a majority of the players maxed out within months of the game’s release.
I don’t see a problem with this.
So they added the next, and supposedly last tier, which is Ascended. So it wasn’t because of the vocal minority of the game that triggered it, it was a vast majority of active players.
They assumed that since a “majority” of players had exotics that we wanted another full tier of gear? Oh wait, they said it was going to be added from the start but didn’t tell anyone and are implementing it horribly. A player’s actions now does not tell you what they would like to see happen in the future.
And seeing as you have access to anet’s metrics, please let me know the number of full and non-full exotic players in October. If you can’t, then you can’t say kitten about anything being a majority.
And to add to this, players who were complaining about having done the endgame content already wanted more content not more vertical progression. That’s what players have always wanted. Vertical progression is far more of a stick than a carrot for most players.