Guild Wars 2

Lorelei.3918:

IF you have a spammable aoe and IF you have a good idea where they are. What are Wars, Guardians and Rangers going to do? Swing their sword around till they hit something? Completely alter their build so they have AoE at the expense of everything else?

you do realise that unless they are running full on gas and no armor, yes, do it because if they don’t they might as well be as squishy and thiefs. BUT OH YEAH they aren’t, we are. deal with it, either get AOE or GTFO, we already need to manage everything on our class, and you want to spam save yourselfs and staff on your guardian and 2 on your warrior?

As i read along the Thief forums, i barely see anyone asking for advice, how to do this or that, rather, i see rantings on how thief’s should be nerfed due to their permanent stealth, their “insane burst” and so on.

This is a guide to people that have NO insight on how a thief works, and as much as it pains you, this is how it is.

Our Stealth

Our stealth Is ONE of the cornerstones of being a thief. Face it, “THIEF”, you don’t see assassins, rogues, thiefs, muggers, anything like that walking around with white-bright clothes singing along “IM A insert profession here AND I’M GONNA MUG YOU”. No.

You “see” us in every dark corner trying to slip away from everyone’s eye-sight to drop under dead-eye and strike you in the back.

That’s how it is.

Now, technically speaking, we have 4 main stealths. C&D, shadow refuge, Blinding Powder and last but not least smoke screen (not counting with that D/P trick, i think Anet nerfed that).

C&D cost us 6 initiative out of 12 initiative (15 if you’re specced), meaning 2, 3 attacks maximum. Even with init. recovery, we sacrifice burst/damage and condition. That equals in 6 or 9 second invisibility in every 15 second interval with a 3 second revealed debuff on. Unless we just want to kitten you off, we will not kill you by concentrating only on stealth this way since the rest of our skills are also driven by init. So we go to the other skills

Blinding powder: no init cost, 60 sec cooldown, 3 second stealth and a blind. Seriously? is it dangerous? no. Its great to run from a dangerous opponent or if you need some quick health regeneration (AND that is if you are specced for it).

Shadow refuge: more annoying, also a 60 sec CD but it has a dangerous “but if”. “The skill is great BUT IF you get knocked down/forced to move off it, you lose the stealth, wasted IT and a slot.”.

Smoke screen: great for blocking ranged attacks and with a SB and spam 2 you can stealth for a brief brief BRIEF moment and that is if you don’t have anyone in melee range. Because if you do, you get revealed because you accidentally hit him/her.

So… Stealth is OP? we get a few extra skills while in stealth: Backstab was nerfed, immobilize for 2 seconds, pistols get a decent unload and 5 bleeds (actually pretty good, but not for burst, only for condition) and sword gets a nice skill also.

In sum: it isn’t op, its actually quite good as it is.

PLUS a known BUG (yes, it should be a bug if it isn’t and it should be corrected) is when you stealth, if a player is casting something against you, the player will keep following you, targeting you and hitting you. So that is enough of a deal breaker, you still want stealth nerfed?! That just shows how 99% of the player base does not know how to play.

Next we got MOBILITY

This game has a different system, Power, precision, etc.. But in other games, you have Agility. And you have agility for a reason, and all rogues/hunters/,wtvr the kind of the class is, are driven by it. Because RPG-wise they are mobile, fast, all that kind of things.

So it’s normal we are agile and quick.

And finally, our BURST

We had backstab, but now it has been nerfed. In order to do any damage (pvp wise) that isn’t a choice, you cant kill that fast anymore. Players have too much of a window of opportunity to kill us due to our low defenses.

Basically: burst means you kill as fast as you’re killed and a player with minimum defensive capabilities will kill us.

TL:DR

We have fun perks to play with, but in no way we are the deadly kind of class now. Your rants made us kittens in the middle of warriors, guardians and so on.

And if we decide to take burst into account, we will die fast, even with simple aoe from 1 person (take into account i play a full burst specc and i know this for a fact: i dont kill fast enough for my amount of defense)

if we don’t, we will only serve as a group distraction/gain time, since there are no defensive traits in the power/precision tree and the ones on the condition tree are not that good and the offensive gains in the defensive kind of trees are not good enough to cut it.

*Stop ranting, our class is bad enough as it is. *

And i would like, though i doubt, a Dev to read this, and tell me WHY did they choose what they chose on the thief’s build/play style.

I chose it because i knew pre-hand we died fast, we are fragile, though we could pack a lethal if-you-aren’t-careful-you-WILL-die punch. Instead, now i work as a distraction in my sPvP group since i don’t have burst to defend and if i work with a defensive build, i dont have the damage/resources to deal with them. (just saying the same over and over now, but thats how bad it is).

On EVERY MMO the rogues/assassins/wtvr have perma stealth (1 button perma stealth) and they can stun lock you and obliterate you in a matter of seconds. Be grateful that in this game stealth is actually temporary, and under 10 seconds with 60 second cooldowns (on the exception of C&D).

If you got a problem with stealth, learn to play. Thats all i have to say. And before ranting, I am STILL a backstab build thief (DC about the nerfs, i actually like that build though its completely nerfed now) and i get my kitten handed to my in a silver platter if i am unfortunate to find a player that actually know’s hot to play and isn’t a 10 y/o glass cannon warrior that cries when he can’t stun lock, haste and spam hundred blades.

GW1 pros: incredible story-driven game-play
GW1 cons: not such an appealing game-play, per say

GW2 pros: Incredible game-play
GW2 cons: not as near as epic as GW1

IMO just slap GW2 right on to GW1. But that’s just me.

I want to know, stealthing while an enemy player/mob is channeling and said stealth not breaking the channel, is a bug or intended? I hope its a bug, because in the event that it isn’t, it completely renders stealth useless, both in pve and pvp.

This sounds more like a rant from people that can’t stealth. Being able to continue casting once stealthed completely obliterates our very diminished as it is survive-ability.

I constantly get pummeled by staff guardians and warriors, i don’t need a ranger showing off where i go when i stealth to those guys. That is just a plain moronic way to balance out stealth, it takes the surprise chance for us against our targets. OH YEAH i forgot, kids don’t like to get hit by surprise.

To me, this should be changed, that would force other classes to have to get some survival skills to survive and actually get a chance. Why do other classes get to have “super-powers” and still rant on our 1 advantage(stealth)?

simply put:

the game community will die if that is put. It will simply be 5 people joining you, and leaving without saying a word. If you have some some actual trouble finding people, you would actually make a human connection through the game (as Anet intends)

Wasabee.5031:

I totally agreed. Someone needs to learn their profession more before QQ. I play as a S/D thief, GS/S/F mesmer and I have no problem beating down the jumping monkey BS, HS spammer.
I give 1 simple solution: stack toughness and learn how to dodge/move at the right time (if you stand still or just wiggle around doing nothing when seeing thief went into stealth mode, you’re dead.) If your toughness is around 2.7k, you will survive the burst and watch the jumping monkey BS, HS down on the ground when you still have 1/4 of your health.

And yet the nerf is on its way due to “walk back while he vanished before my eyes since i couldnt remember to evade or put a stun breaker/stun locker into my utility skills because im also a glass cannon” players

Daendur.2357:

EasymodeX.4062:

Everyone is complaining about the 8/9k dmg backstab has. It isn’t that much.

Actually I’m more concerned about the 15k Backstabs.

Actually I’m more concerned about the 20k 100blades aoe.

finally someone that agrees with me.

gamefreak.5673:

Draven.9521:

BlackDeath.8106:

gamefreak.5673:

We are all wrong, your words of wisdom has shown me i am just a horrible player and backstab perma stealth thieves are balanced.

I am a newbie here, tell me how you can be a perma stealth backstab thief. i just rerolled to a thief.
Whenever, i cast CnD and then a backstab, i cannot get a second backstab straight away and after the first backstab i am out of stealth.
I even tried CnD—>backstab—> CnD (does not let me stealth) and thus couldnt backstab. Since i am a noob here, tell me how you do it? I so wanna own them people with that perma stealth backstab thief build i read about in forum.

you cant. its impossible, unless you exploit. Once you backstab you get a debuff for 3/4 seconds (cant recall) that keeps you from stealthing. Thats why there is no eprma-stealth BS thiefs.

OK i worded that wrong i am just so sick and tired of thieves trying to defend backstab.

because backstab is fun to play with and already on the edge because of glass cannons crying over being killed easily.

BlackDeath.8106:

gamefreak.5673:

We are all wrong, your words of wisdom has shown me i am just a horrible player and backstab perma stealth thieves are balanced.

I am a newbie here, tell me how you can be a perma stealth backstab thief. i just rerolled to a thief.
Whenever, i cast CnD and then a backstab, i cannot get a second backstab straight away and after the first backstab i am out of stealth.
I even tried CnD—>backstab—> CnD (does not let me stealth) and thus couldnt backstab. Since i am a noob here, tell me how you do it? I so wanna own them people with that perma stealth backstab thief build i read about in forum.

you cant. its impossible, unless you exploit. Once you backstab you get a debuff for 3/4 seconds (cant recall) that keeps you from stealthing. Thats why there is no eprma-stealth BS thiefs.

gamefreak.5673:

We are all wrong, your words of wisdom has shown me i am just a horrible player and backstab perma stealth thieves are balanced.

As a thief, i do not understand where is the perma-stealth.

Vilar.2680:

1) sure, when build that direction mesmers are impossible to locate… but, unless the the mesmer is facing the thief and they have a healthy gap between them, the thief will kill the mesmer before he can start (i’m talking about equally skilled players).

2) Warriors bursts are waaaaay easier to avoid then thieves.

3)Engs KD is what you would expect of a point holder… by the he pay the price of that KD by sacrificing his damage.

4) D/D are impossible to kill? If you can’t kill him with a 9k burst folowed by the 5k of steal… reroll.

5)Necros lich form is an elite skill with long cd, that leaves you without your utilities and heal, if the guy stay in melee range most hits will miss and the more important point : many ways to counter it (moa, corrupt boon comes to mind, but many others do the trick)

I am talking about these particular classes because i have a friend that has them all 5 in sPvP and he kicks my kitten easily. Warrior burst is easier to avoid than a thiefs burst?

I will walk you through the following strategy, exclusive to thiefs: sneak from the back and attack, get spotted and get killed. A warrior can charge head on.

Im sick and tired of these dilemas, and nerf BS and thief becomes useless (once again, imo, a good pve thief also relies on BS even if he is not specced for it. after all, D/D has cripple and C&D, even though we also have 3).

THIS IS WHAT I LIKE AND I THINK ABOUT A THIEF IN BOTH, PVE AND PVP:

There are 2 kinds of thiefs, 1 is predominant, which is the glass cannon BS thief. This ellusive creature has 1 goal in mind: catch a target alone, sneak and kill. Why do you hate him? because probably 89% of you dont know how to play. Either you’re a glass cannon too and you’re like cheese to us, or you actually have balanced stats and defensive/stun breakers and kill us, since if you survive our burst we’re little kitties to be stomped by a tiranaussoraus rex or you know how to play and kill us. Every non-glass cannon is a reason for me to run away.

and you have the defensive BS thief, which is a very low minority that has fun to appear and disappear in front of 1 target. This is the kind of thief that will reroll if you nerf. they will deliver too much of low hits if anything gets nerfed and will get annoyed not killing anything and having to run away most of the time.

My advice to you all? Learn to play. Dont be glass cannons if you dont want to die from a burst.
Stop crying and blaming everything else, just look for solutions in yourself because every class has more than 1 window open to kill a thief.

(and a side note, i’m NOT a glass cannon, i have balanced my spec for optimal defense and burst. I spent 3 days devoloping my playstyle and i have alot of fun. When i used to be a glass cannon i delivered a 10k blow + finishing hits to down, but i got killed from the rangers barrage. I was that weak of a target. As such, i levelled everything, not i backstab to 4k plus a few hits, still kills fast, 5 seconds or so, but ppl have more than a couple of windows of opportunity to turn the tables)

I am here reading alot of rage over the “instakills” on the BS build. Well, as a thief, let me explain it to you, what it consists of:

a 6 skill rotation in less than 3 seconds for us and a slap in the face (no offence intended) to distracted “im a wannabe defending guardian with save yourselfs (or others)”.

Everyone is complaining about the 8/9k dmg backstab has. It isn’t that much. I’ve played enough tournaments to know that the BS build is a good 1v1 that is based on a 45 second CD (as in, 45 seconds in between doing decent dmg and getting the proverbial behind kicked) but it isn’t anything compared to a player that knows how to play.

I’ve met in the battlefield mesmers, spamming 2 warriors (yes, warriors.), condition damage thiefs, well necros, guardians, KB engeneers that killed me with ease. Know how to play your class and the BS thiefs won’t be much of a threat.

But while we’re on the rage train: mesmers are impossible to spot once they start multiplying, warriors spam 2 with the greatsword, engeneers have too many knockdowns and slows, D/D elementalists are impossible to kill to any melee class, necros lich form is a pain on 1v1 (not to mention the second health bar on shroud).

see what i did there? i ranted on other classes. Every class has its strong point. Ours is the periodical burst (45S CD) on that specific build. Take that away and we’re basically easy targets that do no dmg what-so-ever that die quickly. (imo, even tough/vit builded thiefs are an easy grind compared to other classes)

The good PvPer’s i’ve encountered have all survived my backstabs. Instead, i died. All this nerf talk is for the QQer’s (imo, ofc) that go for the glass cannon strategy with no survivability skills.

If we do get a nerf on our BS build, i hope we also get a huge survivability boost, because stealth, does not cut it.