Guild Wars 2

There are hordes of players who have been crying for progression. They’ve been told repeatedly by fanboys that this game isn’t about progression. So they went back to where they can find that. MoP has loads of endgame content. Those players will most likely be back to check out content patches, and Anet will have another chance to capture their attention (provide some meaningful progression).

A large percentage of the MMO crowd lives and breathes progression-based play. If it didn’t, WoW would not be the top MMO in the world.

The funny thing is, even some of those who say they hate it end up missing it when its gone.

ConterK.3972:

right now i have around 450+ hrs played in 1 single character and i havent even seen all the maps in the world, lol
i dont understand how people can get bored of this game this quick

What are you, a tourist? Not everyone who plays MMOs is the explorer type who finds it interesting just to wander around through zones. Maybe if there were some spectacular story-telling that accompanied it, but there really isn’t.

notebene.3190:

I presume your response was with respect to the second question. My question was ‘why’? Are you producing the information with the intention of being a Good Samaritan and helping us make good choices for ourselves?

I’m confused. Exactly what kind of choice are you trying to make?

When you hit level 62 and realize every zone has the same gimmick and no real story.

ShRNA.4376:

You do realize that GW2 players simply had to click a button on the buy.guildwars2.com site to get a key and download the thing? Why on earth would they order it from Amazon?

Hey that’s a good point. However, not all new players knew to buy GW2 from Arenanet directly (for instance, I bought mine via box from New Egg for a discount), but ALL Wow players know how to get their Xpacs via Blizzard.

But this conversation has nothing to do with current population, which was the subject of the OP.

ShRNA.4376:

The game is merely #2 best seller. I mean, 1 months after release and it can not stay as #1? Even MOP is hanging around #7 right now. You know, the game is surly dying.

You do realize that MoP players simply had to click a button on the Battle.net site to upgrade? The expansion was already patched in. Why on earth would they order it from Amazon?

notebene.3190:

If you enjoy the game and look forward to playing, what would you care whether or not someone says it’s failing, short of getting an email or notification like, say, the folks who play City of Heroes received letting them know their game is being sun-setted?

If you do not enjoy the game and have decided to leave, are leaving for other reasons (peer pressure to play another game, personal commitments, work obligation, etc), why is it necessary to make a comment that would indicate a game has failed or is failing, whether based on factual information or pure conjecture?

I’m bored. And I bought the game, just like you. That gives me the right to comment whether I’m an active player or not. Remember, no subs?

When I logged on for the last time (last week), several more servers were set to “Full”. So I do think the population is dwindling. =/

Porky.5021:

Hi. I want a burger. I’m tired of Burger Barn, so I’m going to go to Wong’s House Of Super Chinese Food. Then I’m going to tell Wong how great burgers are and how burgers are essential to running a restaurant.

Let me fix your analogy:

Hi. I want a burger. I’m tired of lettuce, tomatoes, and pickles with my patty, so I’m going to try onions and mushrooms instead. Then I’m going to stop eating onions and mushrooms because it turns out I like lettuce, tomatoes, and pickles the best after all.
However, I wouldn’t mind trying avocados and swiss cheese on it also, so when I find a menu that offers those options, I’ll probably give that a try too.

I don’t know if its “needed”, but it sure is more fun than combat w/out it. As an 8 year MMO healer, I sure do miss having a role I enjoy playing. To me, DPS is just boring.

Its just a difference of opinion on what’s fun & challenging.

Mounts are fun, especially when there’s a large variety of them that you can collect.

gurugeorge.9857:

Again, this is such an inept analogy it’s laughable.

People have been calling “socialism” because superficially it looks like “everybody’s equal” (i.e. everyone ends up with equal gear). But that’s just an extraordinarily shallow way of looking at it.

When you have a “level playing field” in a game (like Chess, where both sides are PERFECTLY BALANCED in terms of the “numbers game”), this means that ONLY PLAYER SKILL DECIDES THE OUTCOME.

This is actually a perfectly pure competitive environment in which those who shine do so solely by their own merits and skill as players, and not because they’ve paid more subcription time to developers than other players so they have an illusory progression through better gear.

“Illlusory” because the outcome of a contest between people of unequal gear level is UNCLEAR. Suppose both players are of equal skill, then the one with better gear will win. But also, a player with good gear and poor skill may squeak through and beat a player with better skill (especially where gear differential counts for a lot in the game’s numbers).

IOW, equalizing everyone’s gear makes the game more competitive and better able to accurately represent player skill and progression (in terms of bettering their actual skill at playing the game), precisely as a result of getting rid of illusory progression based on gear.

Jeez.

I agree with what you’re saying, in terms of player vs. player situations.

But you are making one huge assumption that is incorrect: That players in MMOs only “Compete” when they are participating in PvP.

That assumption is not true. Players compete for better gear, compete to complete content first (whether it be zones, levels, gaining mounts, pets, anything they can show off), and compete to accomplish a multitude of achievements.

GW2 is very limited in what it offers players to compete for, and how you display those “wins” or accomplishments. As many have said here, even the cosmetic gear you can gain isn’t really “prettier” than the lower gear. So what’s the point?

Its all about finding what motivates a large variety of players and then working that into the game, hopefully not at the cost of other players and what they enjoy. I just think GW2 has some gaps they need to fill.

Anishor.6921:

YUnlike themeparks where you go to Tatooine, finish Tatooine, and never return to Tatooine.

Really? What about the Outlaw’s Den on Tatooine? Spent alot of time there.
If GW2 were a Virtual World you wouldn’t need to to load every zone separately. It sorta takes away from the “immersion” that sandbox games typically provide.

It doesn’t matter what his story is. Kicking mid-fight should not be possible. If you end up with a group member who is griefing, kick them after the fight and then attempt again. No biggie. The potential for griefing is far greater with the ability TO kick mid-fight, than to NOT be able to kick until the fight is over.

Should never be able to boot someone from a dungeon group during a boss fight. That’s just terrible. lol

bojangles.6912:

WoW for more than a year too. WoW was a great game. They hit 13 mil subs which no mmo will ever do again. Even those who left the game still kept accounts active. Yes a lot of people had multiple subs, but hey it is still a sub nevertheless.

Basically the next best mmo will need to do what WoW did. Take things/ideas from others games but make them 100000000 x’s better. What you need is a huge lore/story. For how many copies of Warcraft 1-3 sold, people knew the lore which helped sell WoW. I really think Blizzard should have taken Diablo and made it World of Diablo and make it scary and hellish. Make it like Vanilla WoW but obviously in the Diablo world. How awesome would it be to walk through Tristam like Stormwind? Or even a World of Starcraft where it can have ground and air pvp and 3 factions. There is a lot of lore there too.

But yeah games tried like The Secret World but just seems like they get old fast.

You are right. It requires a ton of lore/story for a game to have that “Epic” feel to it. And on top of that it needs to have stellar game design and activities that are engrossing over a long period of time, as well as rock-solid coding mechanics. In addition, it must please both the casual and powergamer. Not an easy feat.

Titan is coming.

CoffeeShtoun.6528:

Thats a good idea, not that I was poking fun at women its just as a general bias most guys dont know many girls who are MMO pros

There may be more of us than you think.

My best advice: leave her alone until she’s comfortable with the basic controls of the game. Then you can start hurrying her along. But if you pressure her and make her all nervous she probably will just give up.

How is it any different teaching a girl to play than a guy? Whatever!

I’m a casual ex-powergamer and I got bored at lvl 62.

Wow, those who are criticizing the original poster need to read again.

Having all of your friends leave a game is a real problem. Those players who have established groups they play MMOs with aren’t going to run around solo. I have a guild of 80 players. 4 were online last night.

One of the major points he made regarding WvW is that server transfers are killing it, and he’s absolutely right. All of the major WvW guilds on my server left for one of the big three a week ago. WvW has sucked ever since. The server transfers need to stop. Maybe one transfer per week would be better.

Dungeons are over-tuned, and imo, just aren’t fun. But that’s another issue.

The token bugs are a huge problem and need to be fixed asap. They are driving players away.

I can’t believe some of you fanboys dismissing a reasonable, sensible post like the OPs Shame on you. If you drive everyone off you will be living on a ghost town. Have fun with dynamic events and WvW when there’s no one around.

Other +1 Skills should be awarded for WvW/sPvP ranks.

Do you feel like you took an arrow to the knee?

If they were better implemented, more people would use them. If the majority of players are ignorant, that’s the fault of the game for not explaining itself well enough.

For those who don’t “get” the socialism analogy – Socialism is basically the opposite of Competition. Socialism in an MMO environment philosophically-speaking, is a situation in which you assume players are going to continue to enjoy content for which they can’t compete to make their hero better than the average joe’s, simply because they “enjoy” it.

In a Competitive environment, the one in which the rewards-based player gains the most enjoyment, the player is continually striving to become stronger, better than the average joe. Its what drives you to keep playing. You may agree or disagree with this type of philosophy depending on what type of player you are, but for many MMOers, this is how it works.

I like the concept of combo fields, but they are difficult to identify in game.

I think it would be cool if you saw some text spam when one goes off, like a huge “(Insert name of Combo) Success” or something on your screen. This would help players identify when they are hitting combos and aren’t even aware of it. Plus it makes you feel like you did something uber cool when you see the spam.

Just an idea!

deriver.5381:

As so mine. Because today people can’t stand a month without a constant flow of rewards.

The size of the MMO market has grown drastically since the DAoC days, and players have many options as to which flavor of MMO they choose, so yes. They are more demanding because the market allows them to be.

deriver.5381:

When the game launched, RRs were only for titles shown to enemies. There were no realm skills… They were introduced almost a year after launch.

Yeah, so one year out of the many years that players populated the lands of Camelot, there were no RRs. My point still stands.

For those of you who think Anet isn’t interested in gobbling up as much of the MMO market as possible, you are very wrong. GW2 is a different animal than GW1. GW2 was marketed as an MMO. GW1 was not an MMO. Part of the business model and revenue forecasts for the game involve ONGOING purchases from the cash shop. These purchases are what fund your content updates, and eventually your expansion. If you want a dead in the water game, fine. Continue to push away players who are trying to let Anet know what will keep them playing. But in the long run, its going to hurt most of all the people who love this game and think “its fine” just as it is now. Because eventually, you are going to get bored. And the more money Anet makes from ongoing revenue streams, the more resources they have to pour into keeping you around long-term.

There is no reason the game can’t cater to two different types of players. They just need to add in some additional incentives for end game content. It doesn’t have to be gear progression. It can be other things that players care about. Titles, mounts, pets, whatever. They just need to be creative and think up incentives that don’t contradict their basic premises about requiring players to grind content to compete. I’m sure they can do it. They clearly have a talented crew working for them.

deriver.5381:

Thousands of players RvR’d on DAoC for years without ANY reward at all, other than the sheer satisfaction of seeing their realm beating their enemies. It was when they introduced rewards that affected the pvp gameplay that everything started to fall.

Wrong. DAoC offered Realm Points, Realm Ranks, Realm abilities as motivation for RvR. Nothing more fun than striving for the next RR. Players enjoyed this type of gameplay for many years. So don’t act like there wasn’t a reward because there was, and it was huge.

Apakal.5718:

Blizzard doesn’t even know how to do it (unless it got better since I stopped playing). Phasing in and around ICC ended up being a terrible thing. It was cool from the story aspect, but when it permanently affected your game world and separated your group into what are basically separate instances, with no obvious indication of who was phased, who wasn’t, or what other players had to do to get out of one phase and into another, it was just annoying.

Agree. It was improved in Cata, but not perfected. It still needs work. But that’s how development in MMOs happens. One step at a time. I hope they keep perfecting it and when Titan comes out, maybe we will have a truly revolutionary MMO.

The everything is endgame in GW2 claim is like taking lipstick and putting it on a pig. Its still a pig. How stupid do you think the playerbase is?

P.S. SWTOR is a richer, more immersive environment than GW2 imo. I’d forgotten how great it is, so I resubbed and am now using the LFG tool to experience all the endgame dungeons I missed the first time around, and the best part is, I actually get to HEAL. Yay! I love my sorc.

Doesn’t WoW already do this with zone phasing? Once you complete a certain part of the story, the zone “changes” for that character forever. It can change multiple times, depending on how many layers are built in. So yeah, it can be done. Its just nobody but Blizzard knows how to do it.

I quit for the most part. Resubbed to SWTOR because there’s a lot of endgame content I haven’t seen there yet, and now they have the LFG tool, so I’ll be spending my time there for now. Just got tired of monotonous zones and activities, and the trinity-less combat doesn’t appeal to me much, as a healer.

Reinstalled SWTOR and the game is much smoother than it used to be. I hopped in a random hardmode and got 2 drops on the first run, and got to see new content at the same time.

Have fun in GW2!

Hickeroar.9734:

Attitude is everything, and yours sucks. You refuse to have fun, and therefore you don’t.

You really think people buy the game and then refuse to enjoy it? Please. lol
Is it possible some people just enjoy something different from what the game has to offer? Players have a myriad of expectations for endgame, as you can see from the many posts & threads on this topic. Some will like what GW2 has to offer, but others won’t. Don’t be so judgmental.

sandwitch.6159:

“More meaningful” = still completely pointless loss of time.

I don’t know about you, but I play games to have some fun. If I want to do something meaningful, I don’t play games.

More meaningful for some players = more fun.

Vladia.2731:

FarFarAway.6579:

But well-designed raids are actually Fun.

Go play WoW then. Raids serve no purpose in the Guild Wars universe.

K.

Kana.6793:

You do know that raiding means doing the same instances over and over for several months until a new tier is released, right?

But well-designed raids are actually Fun.

mechasauce.1309:

What happened to the OP….got school…yeh thought so….

Some people work during business hours.

Gauradan.8361:

@deriver No MMO I have ever played has a cap on farming materials.

That’s what the kids around here call “revolutionary”.

Maybe true MMO addicts are simply gluttons for punishment. Maybe we are more the marathon type runners than the sprinters. Its true that in some games leveling is slow, and some people see that as a downside. When I first started playing GW2 I thought the leveling experience was great. You get XP for everything! You don’t have to do quests. You don’t have to sit in one camp and grind for hours on end.

And then I realized there was nothing really epic to look forward to. There’s just something missing from endgame. You can argue that doing more hearts, exploring more zones, and finding more vistas is what this game is all about, and if that’s true, I guess its just not the game for me. Its too easy, and every zone is the same setup, even if the landscape looks different. That stuff is kiddie fun for leveling, but its definitely not a main course for endgame.

So anyway, I’m still waiting for my runner’s high, but its just not coming. I’m looking for some depth in the world and not finding it. At least half my guild has dispersed already thanks to server hopping, so that doesn’t help much. Its ironic that this game has the word “guild” in the title since it doesn’t really cater to fostering strong guilds. Being able to hop servers and joining multiple guilds at the same time undermines their strength.

Server hopping is also killing WvW. My server started out as a strong WvW community, but now all the WvW guilds left to join the most competitive hub.

People keep talking about how just having “Fun” isn’t enough for some MMO players who need a “carrot on a stick”, but what they’re confused about is what we consider to be fun. Everyone has their own definition for what is fun. Endless exploration and watered down group combat is fun for some people, but for others its simply not.

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

Guess what? Lots of MMO’s have tried to comply with this narrow vision and give the WoW kiddies what they want. Where are those MMO’s now? Dead and buried or F2P. GW2 has a different vision and it just isn’t for everyone. Sorry.

Like which MMO? Every single recent MMO that has come out failed on Endgame (even if there are other failures as well). Except maybe Rift. They caught on quick and cranked out content as fast as they could, and extended their life somewhat.

But for the most part, the biggest titles have flopped in the post-leveling department, and GW2 is headed swiftly down the same path.

darkwombat.3695:

Using your argument he can’t tell us there is nothing left for him to do and you can’t tell me I am wrong, for feeling the way I feel!

So you think MMOs should have content that just goes on forever?

Yes. If managed properly, they certainly will. I’ve played two MMOs for years each, and I know of other MMOs that have kept players around for years as well.

Lmao. I had no idea what kittens meant either. I thought it was some newfangled middle school terminology the kids were using.

Haha. Unfair pvp for the emo crowd? “He hurt me! Waaaaa.”

Phy.2913:

Hey now, My tauren deathknight was badkitten looking.

Anyway, we don’t need gating, there’s nothing to gate.

Exactly. There is nothing to gate.

Lande.5782:

300+ hours played so far. Still have plenty to do.

I seriously don’t understand the mindset of people who need a gear treadmill just to play an MMO. Rather sad, honestly.

Where in his post did he say he wanted a gear treadmill? The dude is bored and he’s asking for suggestions. Way to not be helpful.

But don’t you want level 90? You know you do.

Nothing is “necessary”, due to the way combat mechanics were designed in this game. Unfortunately, there are no true healers.

SpectacularYak.6518:

We need Darkness Falls to make it as good as DAoC’s RvR.

Fingers crossed.

At the very least we need realm ranks.

There will be an announcement sometime between the 23-25th. Its what any decent marketing department would do.