(edited by Fosio.8217)
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I think there’s plenty of build diversity, but one must define ‘viable’ and ‘optimal’ first. I personally use meta builds during dungeons and fractals, and a fun, personalized one when I roam in PvE doing map completion. It’s nowhere near optimal, but it’s viable as all get out.
I agree that the new specializations are far superior to their old counterparts. They promised us horizontal progression with HoT, and then they stepped back a bit with the specializations.
Exactly as you said above.
The current formula for builds since HoT was released has always been centered around Elite Specialization and the synergies between it and the vanilla traits are normally 1 based on the desired stat (Power or Condition Damage and in some cases supportive stats like boon durations and/or healing).
The issue with the absence of play style diversity and being limited to 1 build per stat/Elite Spec, is not only the limited synergies between traits but also the core system of combining 3 set of traits. The current situation concerning builds is the bi-product of these 2 which clearly as they are now are not being successful. Either lose the core system and think of a different way to set masteries (am thinking Path of Exile skills and talents window) or rework/add new effects for vanilla traits.
I’d like to see the Vampiric / Life Steal play style return to Necro. Whether that be through a strengthening of the blood line or an elite spec that compliments that style, I don’t particularly care. Right now the life steal from blood is hilariously pathetic. Blood based necros where once a force to be reckoned with, and its really not an option in the GW2 counterpart.
Quoted for speaking the truth.
Seperate the esport and raising mentality from the rest of the game. Players don’t need simple easily recognized small esports ready builds or narrow one trick/task raid builds being the driving forces for the game it just makes for a toxic community.
We should make a banner or a permanent sticky out of it and every poster should include this paragraph before their intended message. At least until ArenaNet hears us out and stops making changes to the game, for everybody, because of esports catering.
Many of us who have been here since day one, know how the trait/mastery system has devolved into the mess that it is today.
As O.P. said, before the rework and because these were the main focus of your character’s specialization – in the absence of elite specialization- traits were way more impactful on your character. Also, they offered better synergies between them and thus there were far more combination than there are now with Elite Specializations.
HoT did nothing but to reduce the build combinations and even ruin some options for playing differently than the intended purpose of Druid, Chronomancer, etc.
I hope ArenaNet seriously focuses on a new system that is way more versatile before shipping out a new expansion. If not they must add more synergies between the vanilla Masteries and ideally rework some of them. Regardless the 3 lines of Masteries with 2 other combinations for each, needs to go ASAP! It offers too little choice especially considering most of them are already limited as they are in terms of utility and effects.
I think it’s just to encourage the play of the particular region it’s found in and to give that area a long-term presence of players. Not to mention the HoT story takes place after the original story, so players are expected to go there after they’ve done everything else, atleast in my opinion.
Hey Tom, thanks for contributing with such a great argument.
I see your point entirely and I do hope that’s the logic they plan to follow, in fact I hope that there will be an emphasis on the stat combinations and map connections, as you correctly stated, based on the story and its evolution.
In the latest map for example, Ember Bay, there is a clearer(even if weak) picture of the topic and the logic at hand. The map has a thematic line around Burning, so what I’m looking at is Burning Immunity for foes, as an offset for Condition Damage builds based on Burning as a main damage source. Since Burning is the highest damage dealing condition it makes sense for one to specialize around it and to have maps being created with foes that try to counter you – thus immunity to Burning. I like this logic and I hope we’ll see more maps created with foes having a wider array of affixes to counter Boons, Condition Damage, Healing(Poison and better), Direct Damage (armor affixes and better), Mobility(Slow, Exhaust and CC outside of field) etc.
As I recall it was the same thematic thinking that created some classes and abilities (see Necromancers and their feasting on conditions or Mesmers and their boon-stealing). However if we go back to July this year (2016) and the release of Bloodstone Fen – there is no theme there in regards to stat combinations. Now if we go even more back in time, and talk about the Heart of Maguuma maps that came with the expansions we’ll just return to my O.P. point about generalizing Trailblazer and Minstrel across 4 maps with no specific map themes or logic.
Think of the Minstrel as a build and what that translates in-game, do the same for the Trailblazer set and then try to find counters in foes across Heart of Maguuma. The first one is a Healer/Boons supporter that finds no counter affixes from enemies in said maps and the second one is a damage in time build with great defenses as well – which doesn’t even care about raptors, mushrooms and rabid chihuahuas.
The purpose of this thread is to make us all reflect on the decision made by ArenaNet to have us perform tasks in end-game to acquire not gear because that exact gear has a special, specific appearance, that would be a sought out understandable goal, but on the contrary we’re playing at max level doing a lot of grinding to acquire stats in certain combinations.
Now what you all should ask yourself is why? How is this even a feature? What’s the point of having for example Minstrel (Toughness, Healing, Vitality and Concentration in their specific ratio) in such a combination? Is this a winning combination? Isn’t acquiring stats something inherent to classes?
These are some of the questions that I invite you all to think through.
This is what this thread is about and how unlocking certain stat combinations not only do not warrant you anything other than playing a character in a specific way, like unlocking a specific class/role but they should also never be a game feature to begin with.
Q:Why are they not a condition for end-game features Fosio and how is this crazy in your humble point of view?
Well, Fred, it’s simple actually.
A player that has reached maxed level is not playing the way he/she wants to be playing but is on a long journey to unlocking these other stats. And so, for a long amount of time they will grind and do the same things they’ll be doing even when they’ve acquired the full stats they want in their desired combination.
Which is a ridiculous contradiction.
Not only you’re spending your time playing the way you’re not wanting to play, with your desired stats, but also you’re doing the same things you’ll be doing when you’ve unlocked that chased after stat combination.
Then we can shift the discussion to why we even have professions to begin with and how lately they’re all playing the same and soon every profession will have even the same amount of F1-to F5 mechanics.
To remain on topic, let’s reflect upon why we are sent on the chase for Trailblazer and Minstrel? Correlated to this, when the sets of stats are exlusively craftable, why are the Maguuma Lily and the Freshwater Pearl so rare?
You were close to understanding my point but I never said anything about “freely selectable stats like in PvP” – so your arguments that follow do not really go in my way.
There are similar stat sets widely available in core content. Most (if not all) of the game’s content can be played with those core stat sets that are easy to get. The newer, more specialized (and in some builds more powerful) stat sets were added to keep the min-maxing part of the population busy. If you want to go for the optimum, go grind your expansion stats. If “almost as good” is good enough for you, take what the base game offers.
At least that’s my guess on the topic .
You missed the point entirely, and the point is specifically about HoT gear stat sets, name Minstrel and Trailblazer, and tied to the rarity of the crafting mats. It’s about the concept of making gear stats a meta, a goal towards which end-game develops, instead of them being part of your free player character customization, in regards to gameplay choices.
P.S.: It’s minstrel’s, not minister’s .
All right, better than your initial comment, at least this one hits the topic …somewhat.
I’ve edited the O.P.
Hope I won’t be stoned to death because of a typo. Mercy please mister :P
I just need to comment on this issue because I can’t find any reasonable form of validation for it, from any perspective, aside from it being just bad design.
So, hopefully someone from ArenaNet will help with clarifying this one for me.
With the HoT expansion some of the stats combinations were newly introduced to the game and were implemented behind certain tasks to be performed in-game in order to unlock them. Also they are exclusively craftable; Viper, Trailblazer and Minstrel**** in particular, the requirements are so far behind with limitations that it’s ridiculously difficult to acquire a full set of at least 1 of these new combinations.
Think of the rarity of fresh water pearls, or the water lilies.
Why are Trailblazer and Minister (left on purpose to tease Rasimir :P) so badly hindered? Are they like end-game gear and we’re saying that these type of stats are a powerful goal to reach?
To the latter question isn’t limiting an certain set of stats the same as limiting, for th absurdity of it all and just as an example, the warrior profession because it’s so strong that it should be considered as an end-game feature?
Why can’t we all have easy access to how and what we want to play and then once we’ve customized our character in terms of stats we can actually do the “content” of the game and play “Map X, Map Y. event X, event Y or do whatever X, Y instance”?
Just to defuse a possible counter-argument that unlocking these kind of gears, would also unlock a specific skin, well no, they have not an exclusive visual or unlock you an exclusive skin once say you’ve crafted a Minister (guess I was focused on the topic and not the terminology – funny though) coat.
So, why ArenaNet did you do this? Why are stats in certain combinations implemented as a game feature ?
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I think that they are repeating past, core mistakes that were conceptualized along with the profiling of “elite specs” introduced with Heart of Thorns.
Certain elite specs were created to be support oriented, others exclusively damage oriented and others again permit only certain stats.
I’m talking about exclusivity, limitations to only a couple of combinations between traits of the elite spec and the legacy traits( Wind-Arcane Tempest or Fire/Earth Tempest but not Water-Fire Tempest or Water-Earth or any other combinations) and therefore the lack of synergies or options to vary our gameplay – they went exactly the wrong way, instead of opening up more ways for us to play our characters.
And while we’re at it, remember when this game was about weapon swapping ? What HoT did with elite spec weapons was to remove this almost completely. Again because of exclusivity and limitations.
Hopefully before they base another expansion on the very same weak system that’s the source of all our issues (TRAITS), we will see a new and complete system implemented that will allow us to define our play-style with less limitations.
As a suggestion ArenaNet needs to introduce a new window of traits with interactions between them similarly to Path of Exile (ideally)
Example : Your node choice is surrounded by 6 (? imagine it’s in the middle of your progression of choices) other different options you will have choices whether to go towards damage, sustain, defense, utility, etc.
Reading through all your suggestions and still hoping that after 4 years I’ll finally be able to play my Mesmer using Staff as a main damage oriented weapon.
While some of you have mentioned Staff in this thread, you still name it as an utility weapon or secondary one at least, but then if we go through each ability of the Staff set of skills we’ll soon see that in terms of viability compared to Druids, Revenants or even Engineers, Mesmer supportive utilities on Staff fall short.
Staff brings boons and CC in terms of utility, but if you notice their base duration or their procs being randomized (for boons) and the long cooldown on C.Storm, there’s nothing really there to support with.
I appreciate the recent changes for the Power scaling, that ArenaNet did, for the Illusionary Warlock but it is still not enough to be viable as a main weapon. Especially if we take into consideration the still slow Chaos Winds projectile – the first impact is my nemesis and I usually start it in melee range then use Phase Retreat to have the clone placed closer to the target for faster impacts. Still even with all my planning and careful setup, it is just not enough, it is not competitive with other weapons or professions and we end up playing what performs best…so another weapon.
As for Condition damage output for Staff, I won’t even bother to comment on that, until they remove the randomized proc on Chaos Winds and until the projectile speed again is not tuned in accordance. What good is a condition damage effect on your skills (Chaos Winds) if it is not even able to stack up to not say high stacks tier, but at least medium tier? And the time to reach the stacks is ridiculous.
If I need a good Condition damage output character I’ll player my traps ranger. No gripes with impacts and projectile speed or the randomized condition, but instant slaps of stacks.
I hope that the next balance patch will open up more options in terms of play-styles and surely less limitations that favor nobody, but force us all to play the same way.
They should probably replace vulnerability with poison or torment (plz no more confusion) for more consistent damage since vulnerability is pretty much a dps loss for a condition build. Other than that winds of chaos is fine.
I agree on vulnerability being a dps loss for condition build.
On a 17 to 20 proc’ing base, vulnerability rates are around 50-50 with Burning, but Burning deals good damage instantly, so the more Vulnerability procs, the less damage you’ll do. (i guess its a condition that refers to the dual nature of Staff, being also supportive)
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Tested. Time Warp has 11 ticks, the first happening at 0 seconds. Hence 11 ticks in 10 seconds. Just went online to re-test it before I reply again.
Yes, that’s true. The first pulse is instantly given, so the second pulse is what is being counted at second 1 of the Duration of the skill. Did you try it out in massive fights, i.e. zergs or with more than 5 players around you? Did it happen to you to be left out and not receiving the Quickness proc., yet others around you would?
No, you can not do 25 Bleeding stacks on a normal monster. It would die before you could even reach 15. The 25 stacks you’re referring to, is probably from champion fighting or legendary monsters. And in this case Bleeding that is displayed is not all yours and you can not see how many stacks you’ve applied, but you can only guess from the damage output ticks. (Put your cursor over the conditions displayed and you’ll see a different name than yours).
“i prefer burning as is around 7 bleed stacs”
It depends on how many times Bleeding failed to stack, because of the RANDOM effect
Best we as a community can tell, Staff procs its effects evenly. Sorry. Your limited testing can ofc return highly biased results, since well, it was limited in scope.
11 ticks 1 second apart fit exactly into 10 seconds. At 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 seconds from the cast. 11 ticks.
The first tick also always affects the Mesmer. I don’t want to commit to saying anything about later ticks without re-testing but I believe they don’t have to target you yourself, yes. Why would they?
II. “We” ? Either you represent an organization or you speak for yourself. Furthermore you have no information to decide upon, how far or extensively i’ve tested it.
I. Counting starts with one, i thought you knew that. It’s shocking to see i have to tell you what the first number is.
Also no, as i previously stated, using Time Warp doesn’t always affect the caster. Go to a largely populated area, a zerg event or world boss event and try it. When you’re done, come with valid arguments and post here in an intelligent manner. Thank you.
Rather than so called balance changes, i’d welcome new weapons that will allow us players to have more choices over our gameplay style.
So as to give a few examples:
- bows or crossbows for mesmers firing signature arrows or bolts (similar to a burning arrow)
- polearms, pikes and spears for warriors (typical charge in and slam skills)
- Necros could get a transformation kit , to become one or several undead creatures
- Elementalists could get some combined powers (fire+ earth = magma powers or element A + element B = [insert crazy name here])
- Rangers could get a crossbow or throwing daggers kit
- Assassins could get claws (Wolverine will not be lonely anymore)
- Guardians could fight only using a huge shield to ram into monsters and wreck havok.
Etc. and so forth!
I would just like to leave here a discussion point for two specific skills for the mesmer profession : Time Warp and Winds of Chaos.
I. Time Warp is surely the most used and actually iconic Mesmer elite skill.
Quickness (1s) : Skills and actions are 50% faster.
Number of targets: 5
Duration : 10 seconds
-2 things to notice right away: one is related to the A]Quickness proc and the other is the B]Targets selected randomly. So the Quickness proc seems to last 1 second, but we get 11 pulses in 10 seconds, which means either 1 proc never happens or we actually get this proc every 0.91 seconds (approximated).
So, ArenaNet, i’m just wondering is the tooltip incorrect or is this this skill over-performing due to safe margins? As for the Targets selected for the Quickness buff, I would like to confirm that in many cases, especially large scale battles, the caster is left out and thus will not receive the Quickness buff. Isn’t it rather silly to have skills that may benefit only others? What do you guys think? __________________________________________________________
II. Winds of Chaos (first Staff skill): Bounce and orb of energy between foes and allies that applies random boons to allies and random boons to foes.
Boons: Fury and Might (1 randomly)
Conditions: Bleeding, Burning and Vulnerability (1 randomly)
Now, aside from the projectile speed which is way too low considering it will deliver random effects, the whole random proc’ing rates seem to favor certain conditions. Take a share of say, 20 mobs and follow the procs for conditions. In my case, it’s almost exclusively Burning or Vulnerability and rarely Bleeding (of course i had Illusionary Elasticity on). This forces Condition Damage Staff to be so low in damage output and thus avoided by many players.
I realize what your thread is about but I still feel the same way … why do players insist they need to know about what’s coming down the pipeline? How does knowing that impact any players’ interaction with the CURRENT game version on live?
Games are founded on the backbone of veterans and those that actually dedicate time, effort and resources (real currency). This being said, you need to be open and transparent about your intentions, as a publisher or a direct DEV, so as to build a fair amount of loyal fans in order for the game to live and produce revenue. This is also a reason why new content needs to be added and while Guild Wars 2 is on the path of it’s third anniversary, not many things were added, not many things were fixed or changed.
It also seems that the additions to the game, i’m talking about Living Story, are what ArenaNet is focussing upon, but many players would prefer different content.
At this point, players that really are interested in spending their time and money here, rather than in other games or whatever else leisure activity they prefer, need to know what is programmed for GW2 (other than Living Story).
People can only say the living world isn’t content if they’re dismissing new zones as well. And new enemies with new mechanics. And new dynamic events.
A few months ago, everyone was saying new zones, new skills, new weapons, new classes, new races.
We’ve gotten two new zones, but everyone says the Living Story is a couple of hours.
If that’s all the play you can get from a new zone, no MMO is the world is going to be able to provide enough content.
1. Living World (entire world is subject to change) is one thing and Living Story(quests affected by lore that follow a certain continuity) is another. One refers to locations while another to quests.
2. “new enemies with new mechanics” well, thank God? or are you implying something along the lines of it’s not all a zerg. Besides i think you’re talking about boss/monster tactics in order to kill them, game mechanics refers to something else, like for example dodging or jumping (in-game actions or inactions that allow you to interact with the game)
3. “A few months ago everyone was saying new zones, new skills, new weapons, new classes, new races.” I’m sorry but what are you trying to say here? They never added any new skills or weapons, classes or races.
Note: Added maps: Southsun Cove, Dry Top and The Silverwastes
It has been a sad read, but i went through all the thread for the sake of making some sense out of all this.
OP is asking about what is to come in terms of features, game mechanics and additional systems to improve the game and diversify that which has not been changed in 2 years now.
Yet, Gaile Gray replies about Living Story. (twice even)
Without being impolite or disrespectful, i would like to say that Living Story episdoes may seem significant from a DEV’s point of view (i imagine there’s lots of work to be done each 2 weeks), but in terms of gameplay, we go through said episode in a couple of hours. Then what? Is this really content? Is this really what you want us to stick around for? Are there no other innovative and impactful features to try out in GW2 ?
As many before me have stated, in this thread and in other occasions as well, “i do not care for Living Story” (again not trying to be rude, just wanting to point out a preference of mine or in this case a dislike). If this Living Story is what you guys at Arena Net think of focusing upon, just let us know and we can easily quit this game or better yet, i for one, in such a case would willingly give away my account to someone who would enjoy your Living Story additions.
One of the things that has been bothering me for a long time now is the Music composition theme versus map activity and what actually happens on the screen.
Think of the tempo of each music loop.
For the most part of the audio themes in Kryta, Ascalon, Shiverpeak Mountains or even Maguuma, the tunes are relaxing and soothing and i guess they would match the start of an epic journey where the elements of both story-telling and action are just starting to unfold.
But, for endless battle scenarios, like the highest tier maps; infested by dragon minions, despair and on-going action, to still hear the same soothing sounds and relaxing (almost to the point of boredom) tunes, is just taking away of half of the game-experience.
For example, the music in Orr: i do understand the need for “the lament of Orr”, but come on now, we all kill Zhaitan as part of our lvl 80 Story, shouldn’t we now have the morale boost to jump into fights, roaring while full of adrenaline, slashing left and right of what’s left of his minions? Don’t we maybe need a second tune at least, of a more vivace tempo and perhaps more uplifting?
I would gladly welcome more diversity in Guild Wars 2 music and maybe the option to choose which loops to play. We all could use some inspiring tunes while farming.
Yeah man, what is up with achievement chests after 5000 that give ridiculous rewards?
The 5k AP was a great milestone but after that, seeing what the others hold i kind of gave up on achievements. I still do them but i just don’t care anymore, there’s nothing to look forward to anyway.
Achievement chests sure need love. They could be a nice feature of the game to chase, if it was worth it.
I don’t regret deleting all my characters and starting over in 2 different realms (now in my third), because i couldnt get WvW map completion with the previous 2.
I regret spending hundreds of gold experimenting with builds and still having a blank (no equips) Mesmer. Because i enjoy the staff skills but they scale terribly with both Power and Condition damage.
I don’t regret not ever playing Asura.
I found Toilet Paper in-game and it was a happy day.
Orr maps are my favorite but i regret not seeing more undead Asuras there.
Hooded capes are what i’d love in GW2.
A long hooded, overcoat even if it comes as an outfit (overlapping armor). I would only need that on my char, i swear i will not even have him wear any underwear!
I’m serious …about the no underwear part :P
I too am experiencing this issue.
I have had 4 consecutive disconnects while in Lion’s Arch and trying to Waypoint out of the map. I also noticed a decrease in fps prior to the disconnects, so my guess is the servers are experiencing issues at the moment as i can use my internet connection just fine.
EDIT: I was able to login, Waypoint out and back to Lion’s Arch, then after a couple of minutes i got disconnected.
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People pay $40 for a console game, then consider it descent if they get 40 hours of gameplay out of it.
People pay $40 for Guild Wars 2, and after spending thousands of hours in the game, they complain about lack of content.
I don’t even.
It’s like putting together a jack(male donkey) with a stallion, having them race each other and be impressed with the result.
I don’t even.
I won’t explain how wrong your example is. You go on and think about M.M.O.R.P.G.s and console games.
There is no reason to boycott anything. If you don’t like it, don’t play it. Simple as that. The rest of us will still be thankful we can get this good of an mmo without a sub fee.
This is the exact ArenaNet attitude.
It’s the very same one that has been around since GW2 was released.
As a player you should be concerned about making your voice heard and devs. should take your opinion and thoughts into consideration. You do know this is a specially dedicated place to Discussing GW2….hence the name Discussion Forum.
There is no take it or leave it philosophy when you have a forum up for discussing stuff.
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