To the TC who fought us long and hard last night, well done, it was great fun. A special thanks to the asura thief from TC who tried to join our guild (MGWC) least we think that’s what he was trying to do, as he continually came up to us no matter where we were or what we were doing and gave us badges and loot! Cheers little dude, but we don’t recruit unless we know you….
Thieves can’t carry up to three other weapons along with their pistol, and swap between them all with no cooldown.
Thieves can’t chain-swap through kits to the extent that they rarely have to their pistol 1 ability at all.
Thieves don’t have a pistol 2 that stacks heavy poison on one or more targets, a pistol 3 that stacks blind and confusion across up to four targets, and pistol 4 that applies burning to any opponent in front of them, or a pistol 5 that immobilizes/cripples opponents in a solid area.
Thieves can’t swap out their pistol 4+5 for a ranged reflect+aoe knockback, or a block+ranged daze.
Thieves can’t decide to use a different auto-attack, but still be able to instantly swap over and use their pistol skills when needed/they’re off CD.
If thieves could do all those things, then yes, I would agree that our pistol auto-attack needs a buff. But engineers are a completely different class from rogues, with separate strengths and weaknesses, so I don’t see how a comparison between the Thief and Engi pistol 1 abilities proves anything, one way or the other.
LOL really? A thief complaining about the tools they have? The top 20% thieves I’ve come across hit like a truck, move across maps and through zergs at will, and can reset any fight that’s not in there favour.
Just remember the frozen bird thawing out in the cow patty and kitten.
In the original OP’s defence, poison shot misses how many times? If it didn’t assume that suddenly we shoot like drunken monkeys on horse back then yah sure…. And while we’re at it, your all busy singing the praise of static shot? Confusion is pretty much ignored since the nerf ( my other toon being a Mesmer formally using a confusion-shatter hybrid build 15 ish stacks gets you 1500 damage as opposed to the 3k it use to )
Sooo
pistol
1) meh
2) good, great if it wasn’t kitten stupid rng aimed
3) mediocre even with a pry bar conf bomb chaser
So I get his point, having said that I think it’s a case where the whole is greater than the sum, and any adjustment to pistols would want to be small.
Make 1 a little more forgiving, 2 hit where you aim, 3 increase conf dmg 25% but remove glamour conf traits, sure you killed glam Mesmer 100% dead, but conf bomber engies who risked hammers of death in point blank range shouldn’t have been killed too.
You had a 50/50 chance of it even going right. If you had pulled tornado on elixir X instead of rampaged you would have knocked players clear of the blast radius, giving you an effective blast of ZERO!
What is it with some engineers? Find obscure ways of doing half decent damage that are difficult to pull off and harder again to replicate/maintain. Then come screaming to own forums to nerf yourself. Does this big noting yourselves warrant sucking the fun out of these games? I hope you get kill shoted, shattered, C&D bs hs hs hs, 100 bladed to the face all day long. That way you can justify your Munchhausen by proxy attitude. Or better yet find yourself a different class to suck the soul out off.
Ive been wondering this exact same question. I keep having ppl tell me they are crap for engineers, but I cant help but wonder as the jack of all trades if these spread stat items doesn’t play to our strengths?
So does having a bit of extra vit/tough/+heals/etc etc make up for the overall loss in pure dps stats your after.
Or is it simply better to have 1x power and 1x cond to try and futureproof nerfing.
As Anet has been trying to not be like everyone else, I think this should be right up their alley.
sure in beta it seemed that way, but then they hired Mr Homoginised. After so many years of MMO you see the same patterns repeating in game companies. I really hope they fire Mr Homogonised game play style.
Just roll a warrior, get a rifle and One shot engies from range with 19k kill shots. Or roll a thief and string together CnD / BS / Heart seeker and hit for a total of 17-20k, or roll an engie and wait for some fanboy to tell you how good grenades are or that the 2-3k you just did with the FT is overpowered.. lol or better yet, use a Pistol at point blank range and troll yourself with poisen shot. Seriously they would be better just giving us the bottle the poisen comes in.
Don’t get me wrong, engineers are still fun. Just no where near as much fun as they were. And on my shatter Mesmer or Thief.. as an engineer you will be a great source of free badges.
Confusion/Realiation made the bomberman build viable, in an effort to thwart endless glam build mesmers they took out one of our few decent builds.
On occasion I ran the Asura racial Pain Inverter given its confusion/retal, they pretty much threw it in the trash can. Any chance of reworking pain inverter.
As a member of a small guild who does 99.9% wvw activites, we would like to thank Arena Net for giving us a reason to try and defend towers/keeps/forts. As previous DaoC players we appreciate what Epic wvw battles can be, and watching zergballs take keeps in under a minute is NOT it. Im sure there will be a vocal minority desperate for wvw exp who can only think of how they are inconvenienced by having to think, or use counter siege. But on behalf of the silent majority, I would like to say…. suck it up princess.
I would like to see the carts damage become immune on a keep door however as it seems silly that AC’s should take place of rams.
I saw this Engie who died to a Thief bs under a second, but then the thief tripped on the engies corpse, stubbed his toe and ended up with a toenail infection….. And DIED! 3 weeks later.
Nerf Engie conditions more please.
When you were downed, and a thief was downed, when they start throwing hasted knives at you, Confusion mattered. I found myself in that exact situation post nerf and to state the obvious…… Confusion was half as effective, It was over well before rogue phant could be used. The same could be said if they were downed and you are not. You have every thing on CD, try using sceptre and see how far that gets you.
End of the day, some of the mesmers defining nature was removed.
If glamour Mesmer Zerg busting was the issue, then removing or adjusting those traits would have sufficed. Instead like every other mmo I’ve ever played, it’s getting dumbed down over time to cater for the lowest common denominator. Why learn your class when you can have a text box constantly telling you what to do.
Let me pose this question, how many of my fellow mesmers insta died (think thief bs time frame) to another Mesmer? How many of you we’re stupid enough that after letting confusion stacks get 15+, you then spammed yourself to a downed state?
Only an idiot caters to an idiot. Surely a wise man teaches him how to fish / cleanse / use of tactics
what are you crying about? 1v1 down state the mesmer only loses to rangers.
downed state #2 is still the best second only to elementalist for interrupting stomps.
if you fail to rally as a mesmer in a fight, then you sure as hell wouldn’t rally as any other class, aside from ele mistforming into keeps.
WAS! go try it in wvw now, then post a timestamped YouTube link with how it’s still so awesome. Then go grow some roses on top of your post, they do well in horse kitten. Unless of course the thousands of hours I’ve played my Mesmer and mmo’s since 99, I’ve somehow become a newb.
kittenitten sake it’s obviously half as effective as it was by simple confusion nerf maths.
OP & the dev fanboy club, I’m on Sea of Sorrows. Prove it. Prove its not that bad, I play in a skirmish sized group ‘3 players’ after a full nights testing I’ve got a lot of releases and a repair bill that says otherwise. Shatter spec is business as usual, confusion = I am waisting my, my groups, and even my enemy’s time.
Previously a thief would tread lightly with a confusion Mesmer, now I’m just free badges waiting to happen.
My goodness… That’s a long explaination that could simply be summed up by saying: for any Mesmer reflection build, just trait Warden’s Feedback and use a Focus weapon.
Agree, Ive used this for months as my alt build to confusion. Why on earth do we need people telling (guiding) us every step of every build. Play 1-80, learn your class and share tips with other players.
Is it possible to get the Mesmer downed state to change number 1 from adding stacks of confusion to adding honor badge shards instead?
So each time you attack you add 1/4 a badge,shard to your opponents inventory after four successful attacks you award them a bonus badge and automatically release.
With the current confusion nerf (a kitteny clusterfkitten) I fail to see the point in trying to rally. And while we’re at it can confusion mesmers have a badge vendor that anemy thieves can access anytime?
Infract me, I care less every day, why? I played engineer/Mesmer since beta and you’ve sucked the fun out a little bit more each patch.
So, if it’s an issue of finding the real one, everyone should learn to turn off everything but player nameplates, real mesmer always visible unless a clone is almost directly in the middle of your screen. Done.
Having played eng since beta I’ve seen this class become less fun with each and every patch.
Going to play my Mesmer as a main (on whom I just look at engies as free badges)
Turrets, tried rifle turret on the mobs near zone in to start building bloodlust stacks.
Hit consistently for 300dmg with its slow rate of fire in full zerker gear. Combined with the ft det change I’m about done with engies.,
Apart from the glaring error of not putting backdraft back in, flame thrower has now been fixed back to broken status.
Previously a double detonation would pressure an invader and allow my little grp to use strategies to live and with luck succeed, ie the opposing thief insta jibbing everyone would have to think twice about his approach. Now Detonation is hitting for 2k crits in full zerker gear.
No food buffs mind you but yah, thanks for nothing. For the love of god, open a test server or go and play wvw with your fixed tweaks before giving us all a big cup of fail.
I played the Engineer all through beta, FT5 was awesome, sorry Anet, but when you changed it you made the Engineer just that bit less fun. I still remember the video of one of your devs playing an eng and having a heap of fun in the battle of Khylo. Ask him how he feels the loss of a great skill with the replacement of a lackluster one.
All I and our guild do is WvW, mind you thats only 3 of us these days the rest have left due to a lack of variety of maps, scale/scope none of us particuarly enjoy pve and having played daoc back in the day we love small scale single grp skirmish’s as the zerge feels so mindless.
Since beta we havent clocked up any games in Spvp and if we use the mists as a waystation or for testing, its deserted.
Wish they would bring out bigger/more maps with more interesting terrain/encounters. As technically theres only 2 maps. Spvp has what? 5? or 6?
Your going to get alot of denial here, the fanboys run pretty thick and frankly Anet could give us whiffle bats and you would get replys of oh its not too bad
Balance is important, but are we forgetting the Anet mantra? All classes are able to do the same job equally but in different ways. I remember seeing that time and time again when watching vids before beta came out.
The change to membrane destroyed bunkering in one hit. Im sure some fanboy will try to convince me that 3 seconds of boons once every 30-35 seconds makes it just fine another will try to point out how they tank champs/vets… with little undersanding that what they actually do is KITE.
If I dont see the thief coming then I am dead in under 3 seconds, sure I can use the now cookie cutter shatter spec plenty of good mesmers post bug fix still use this but losing legion build? losing synergy? Just another bite out of the apple that makes this game special to me.
I dont expect to be able to insta jib ppl but I do expect to be able to enjoy the feel of the class I put my time and effort into. Take that away and your playing quake 3… interestingly one of spvp’s map seems to be inspired by.
At heart Im an optimist, if Anet is creative enough to come up with this game.. then I can only hope they retain that sense of fun and keep it ….. fun, in all respects.
Are we seriously going to say that engis are weak in 1v1s now? I win, literally, statistically, 95%+ of the 1v1s I do. .
I have a lvl 80 eng my first true love but meh, on my mesmer as an eng your just free badges. Im on Sea of Sorrows and would gladly hand you a lesson in the short falls of eng. To be fair I did get killed in a 1v1 by a cond eng a month or two ago. I love engies and in larger scale skirmishs if I ignore (some) of them then I am hitting the release button. Other than that.. your shield.. your tool kit shield.. your invis when your still standing right there.. its just stuff till you die anyway.
Do you give a fat patient candy (give) for doing burpees (take)? That’s what you’re expecting.
Infact allowing someone a small amount of freedom in a healthy eating plan allows them a much higher % chance of intergrating that plan into normal healthy habbits.
So if you give me a week of great exercise and YOU desperatly want to reward yourself with a mars bar candy then I would be an IDIOT to say NO. Western world morbid obeisity levels are still on the increase, I dont need to argue the value of the tried and tested carrot and stick pschycology method.
Ive been playing MMO’s since EQ hit Australian shores and understand full well the importance of class balance. Having said that you would be a fool to think that developers (like you or me) are beyond question and make the right descision every time. Ive seen fanboys and trolls screw a class into the ground and on the other hand help lift a class into a fun and usefull experience through feedback on forums. I give Anet alot of credit in most respects for using data analysis in conjunction with player feedback.
If you want a healthy player base you need more than one eyed fanboys harking, you need your base of players HAPPY. And just to be clear… when you TAKE (a perception of a balance with a negative outcome) then its more palatable to GIVE ( a percetion of balance with a positive outcome)….. ie; carrot and stick… bait and switch.
How much give/take and to what degree? Thats the job of Devs.
However I would be interested in what you would Give up in order to Recieve.
Oh and the false advertising is an obvious Pizz take. Sure I’d love to see them in, but meh Id like to win a million dollars too.
As a trainer for 25 years I learnt long ago that giving someone a favourite exercise at the end of a session can help them forget the push ups from hell I tortured them with earlier.
I would gladly have had portal restricted to party only or max 5-10 (take) but have its original CD moved from 60 to 40-45 (give) or even a pretend give of 60 seconds, less portal bomb abuse in wvw.
Taking might stacks from 3 down to 1 (take) a loss in offence, I would restore illusion army membrane to its original and useful version (give) a gain in defence.
I would give mesmers Fans as off hand focus so as to prevent claims of false advertising!
Or I would simply fire the genius that forgot to include it in the art texture pack. And then put it in.
PS, as far as I’m concerned this is daoc 2, I could care less about pve/spvp he’ll if I want to play sport ill get some fresh air and health benefits by getting off my butt. Please don’t let this turn into a wow gear treadmill. Ie; do I have to do fractals to remain on an even footing in wvw? A place where finally skill not ground hours into gear is the difference of a win or a loss? Or am I getting fractal gear all wrong? And it’s no better stat wise than exotic.
Run through a team mates speed buff, throw grenade at escaping thief/any class, add throw time, add hang time, add Australian ping = grenade range 300-500. I’m sure when they add weapon stats to kits we will be given a new skill.
Catchers mitt, for catching ones own grenades. But don’t worry they won’t do enough damage to kill you.
It’s one thing for you to say, yet in wvw I still kill many an eng or thief with confusion.
Actually on thievesit’s usually confusion to 25-30% then curtain them out of srefuge and bfrenzy or shatter to finish.
I’ve a 80 eng, Mesmer and a 50+ thief. I’ve never once lost to an eng 1v1.
How to beat him as a Mesmer?
I’ve never been one to try 4x shatters and blow them up, it’s much more fun to distortion their burst then use confusion and watch them kill themselves.
Aussie here so latency isnt as good as native server users. IF you dont see them coming your first second is realising you are underattack, attempt to decoy/distort. But lets say they are venom. 2 extra seconds is more than enough with that damage. Anyway your missing the kitten loven obvious, RISK VS REWARD. Im a glass cannon just like they are, give me 18k worth of crits in 2.5 seconds and the ability to multi stealth away.
Least a warrior / ele goes down in a blaze of glory
Not the point, I beat about 50% of the thieves I see first. The rest just skip off with numerous escape mechanics.
I beat NONE of the thieves that see me first 1v1. We are talking 2-2.5 seconds. If im lucky distortion-decoy buys me time but that steal often eats 30% of my health, and from then its an up hill struggle..
Anyway the point is, Huge damage should equal Huge risk. I see very little risk. And rather than whinge about it, ill simply play my mesmer till my eyes roll then skip to my alt and kill anyone I want at very little risk.
18k in a couple of seconds with zero risk. You are kidding me.
Sure im running all berserkers or rampagers, but im lucky if I crit for 4k. And I would need a miracle for someone to stand next to my warden long enough for it to crit up to 6k, assuming the wind didnt change and blow him away.
Also got hit by warriors kill shot for 11.6k today.
Ive had enough, ill level up my alt thief till this game becomes thief wars 2.
Just got hit by a thief for 7.9k on heart seeker. Had been hit for multiple 4-5k’s before but boy did I go down quickly.
How hard are you hitting? I have lots of power/precision/cond and my +crit dmg isnt that bad. But I find im lucky to hit someone for 2kmax on one of my abilities. Whats your high hits and how do you do it? Im getting a tad zzzzzz with having to wear ppl down when they just tear me a new one.
Ive got a thief alt and frankly im ][ close to making it a main.
Really? does no one at Anet have a stopwatch. I hate the nerf that adds 30 seconds to the reuse, as I use this as one of my get away from the murderous Thief thats taken 90% of your health in under 3 seconds tool.
Sure I have to accept it, but to nerf it before you even fix the exit to 20 seconds instead of the 10 seconds it currently lasts… Well come over to my house and slap me in the face, pretty much the same effect.
Oh and thievs? Nerfed? what a joke, I wont complain Ill just do what the rest of OP of the month have done on my server.. if you cant beat em, make one.
lol rangers near disappeared only to be replaced by thieves.
I am sick to death of getting an isp hiccup and being discon only to end up back in a que. The other night I passed 6 bots in the lake in one of the borderlands just attacking Krait.. Yet I get a discon and am able to reconnect under a few mins but have to wait in line behind things like that.. Come on please just a little bit of grace would be appreciated.
and another QQ thieves are op thread. i guess the weekly nerf is just not enough…
dude it’s bug abusing, name me any Rogue class in history of MMO who is able to kill you while stealth-ed…come on…name it..
Oh wait you cant.
It’s not about nerfing it’s about fixing a mechanic which is being abused by lame players, there is no space for opinions regarding this issue, it is a must fix, sooner than later.
