Guild Wars 2

tom.7468:

got to 97% world completion been trough all dungeons and pvp maps and most random events i feel like its Game over. you have only like 5 sets of weapon skills and you don’t need friends for anything but dungeons and I’m starting to realize that loosing the holy trinity was a horrible idea guild chat is just a chat room everyone just roam around the map without troubles. they are to busy to join you in dungeons most of the time. just my opinion.

Well, you ran through the game and didn’t experience any of the content. Of course the game is gonna feel over when you’ve burned yourself out in two months. Besides that, this game is WvWvW and PvP focused at endgame. Just like it’s predecessor GW1.. Which only had 20 levels! Should have done a little research before coming here and expecting a cookie cutter MMO. LoTRO should fulfill your undying need to consume content faster than the speed of light.

The MMO’s with the best communities have sandbox elements that require players to help one another in order to get a full understanding of the game. They also have deep and intricate crafting that contributes to a player driven economy (I’m not even a fan of crafting, but I recognize how important it is to community). You’ll also find player housing in most MMO’s with an exceptional community. That’s what I have noticed, and I’m not saying that Guild Wars 2 necessarily needs these things as I think they already have a good start and the framework is already fairly stable.

I think WvWvW should remain a public queue as it is now. Making it SPvP or campaign style would take away from the server community and pride. Aside from that though, I think a lot of what is being discussed here is important for ANet to consider. A lot of major problems that need fixed. These aren’t combat balance issues, they’re mechanics, engine and logistical issues that can really ruin things for the playerbase.

I’ll probably get flamed for this..

TBH, I don’t care about Joe Schmo playing.. He will just end up being a targeting dummy for the opposition and probably won’t offer a whole lot of help. His idea of fun isn’t being competitive.. It’s winning with little to no effort.

The problem isn’t even that Joe Schmo is a coward and doesn’t play. The problem is in the shortcomings of the system itself. Better design would account for unbalanced populations. It’s an inevitability and it was a huge oversight if they honestly thought they would have the perfect population numbers for every tier. There are elements missing or that could be improved upon to alleviate a lot of the numbers problems.

Anyone that knows anything about war, knows that many wars are often won by a single battle or event. The value of an undermanned server taking a keep is as huge a victory as the overpopulated server taking half a map. The relative value is a big problem.

Its not the first time an MMO has been encountered with the issue of unbalanced populations. It’s just the first time an MMO has done it on a server level. (this might even be innacurate)

There are TONS of options that could be used to help nurse this system into shape. It has all the potential it just needs some tweaks. I honestly don’t believe the problem would be alleviated or even helped a whole lot by the points system being removed. Perhaps more emphasis on World Points earned, even for the losers. Perhaps points themselves would count for something.. So simply gaining points for your world offered incentive. Winning the whole enchilada might provide a bigger reward, but all world’s would have an incentive to earn points.

Lot of rambling in this post. Sorry.

No more debates. Just Guuuuuuuma Love.

Your logic is flawed Mell. DPS does not account for burst damage. Burst is the warrior mechanic, and 100 Blades is one of the biggest burst skills. DPS is a CONSTANT average.. Using a combination of constant DPS and Burst will provide you better results. Hands down. Everytime. In the downtime that your 100 Blades is Cooling down.. You are doing damage with auto attack.

To add.. DPS is an average. It doesn’t account for spike damage.

It’s not all about DAMAGE PER SECOND. It’s about the burst damage that 100 Blades gives you. You can smack someone for an hour with your auto attack, and over the course of the hour you could potentially do more damage than you could using 100 Blades with cooldowns over an hour. The difference is a player can survive steady and sustained damage.. The burst damage is what takes players down. They simply cannot keep up with 8-10k damage in a few seconds as opposed to 8-10k damage over twenty seconds. Try beating a skelk with health regeneration with ONLY your auto attack. It will take longer to kill it and you’ll technically do MORE damage to it than you would with 100 Blades. The 100 Blades Skill will kill it in a shorter time and technically do less “total” damage.

It’s efficiency factor. Quality not quantity

griffdog.3927:

Kendu,

You’re preaching to the choir brother. I’ve played competitive sports from the time I could walk. I’m a competitor to the core. Like I said above, I’m not talking about my personal desires, I’m talking about what’s best for the game.

I fought vs Yak’s Bend when it was 695 / 0 / 0. And rallied 10 of us (Yes there were only 10 of us in the entire BL) and went on to take 3 supply camps. I have no fear, never back down and never give up, much like a majority on this board.

But we are not why I’m advocating removing the score. See what I mean?

I do.

I think a lot of the suggestions here are valid, and I also think to utilize the three world mechanic that some implementation of a diplomacy mechanic would be helpful as well. To what extent is another question, but I think the ability for two realms to lay down their weapons between one another would allow for these numbers to even out more. It would also even populations in my opinion because it would become common practice for the top team in the tier to be conspired against and probably worn out enough that the lower ranked servers could compete once the alliance was broke. It would add an interesting mechanic, that would also provide a new set of tactics and play-styles to be utilized.

There are probably faults within that suggestion, but I think it is valid.

I feel the same way. That’s why I look forward to playing this for a looong time. No pressure, no mindless grind. Skill beats gear. It’s a good place to be.

Cheers!

I’m on Maguuma, and really only recently got involved in WvWvW… I don’t know if this makes any difference to the conversation, but when I log in and see we are getting totally destroyed (similar numbers to those being tossed around in here), it gets me more fired up to join and try and make a difference. There comes a point when you know the war may be lost, but that doesn’t mean you can’t lose with pride.. I’d rather die trying than not try at all. You’re still gonna get individual points either way and at the very least you’re giving the server a more accurate read on scoring. If people simply don’t join WvWvW because they don’t want to lose.. Then they don’t deserve to join WvWvW at all. The fact is, a lot of people who are serious about WvWvW will play win or lose.

If you were ever involved in sports did you give up because the opponent had a big lead? No. A true competitor fights to the end. If someone can be demoralized by looking at numbers like that.. They’ll never be a winner anyhow. The casuals are just sheep. They’ll follow the herd. The people winning the battles are the ones out there win or lose. Zergs CAN be effective, but I’ve seen HUGE numbers fall or be denied entrance to a keep by a small but effective force. Someone will always be outnumbered and two worlds will always lose.

VOLKON.1290:

Kendu Kuzal.3985:

Or just don’t allow people who transfer to a server to participate in that weeks matchup..

The point of server transfers isn’t to cater to all the hardcore WvWvW and PvP guilds to always be on a winning server. The point is to balance populations and get well rounded time profiles for all users on a server and allow people to find their “home”.

The transfer system is being exploited.. Easy solution. Don’t let freshly transferred players participate in that weeks WvWvW. It will prevent people from switching week to week and it will give them more incentive to stay on a single server. Won’t be as much “band wagoning” and it will help to reduce queue times because people will be staying on servers and not causing massive influx in population.

I’m not crazy about prioritizing a queue, because of factors involving new characters, transfers out of necessity (guild or friends moving, lag, etc.). Why should people be punished for things out of their control? It’s a permanent penalization to all players. It would be prioritizing people based on character/account age which just isn’t right.

I don’t think you fully grasped the proposal. New characters wouldn’t be affected, it’s tied to accounts. New accounts wouldn’t be punished… your “birth server” priority would prevent that. It’s specifically transfers to servers with queues that would be most affected. The longer you reside on the new server the less the chance of you getting “out-prioritized”.

Not letting new transfers participate for that week wouldn’t help anything at all. Let’s face it… that’s not the week they’re looking at anyhow. They’re leaving a “losing” server to be on a “winning” server for the next couple weeks. However, if you increase the “you can’t participate” time to be multiple weeks, that’s excessive. At least with a prioritization system you would still be allowed to join even if you face a longer queue to do so.

I’m completely grasping it, the newer players WILL be at a disadvantage in the queue with the proposed idea. Even if you don’t think so, the necessary algorithms would be giving priority to those characters/accounts with seniority on the server. You stated ‘The longer you reside on the new server the less the chance of you getting “out-prioritized”’. So even still, the players that transferred day one because they found out that’s where their guild was out of miscommunication are at a disadvantage to the players who “birthed” on the server. In the same instance, how do you handle an account that creates a character on the server a day after someone else transfers? Which of the two accounts has priority? If you say the person who transferred, then you are going on age within the server, which distinctly puts older accounts at an advantage. If you say the newly created account then how could you say they have server priority over a transferred account that has been there longer, even if it is a day? Where do you draw the boundaries?

This also doesn’t address issues out of a players control, such as a guild moving for reasons outside of WvW or PvP and they have to follow if they want to remain with friends. Server connection speed based on location or any of the intangibles.

The idea is good in theory, but it won’t be beneficial to all parties in several scenarios. Forgive me for disagreeing, but it’s my nature and a large part of my profession to analyze these sort of things.

I’m a low level (41) WvWvW participant on Maguuma. I had my first real taste of how it’s done on my home server last night and I can say I’m totally proud, and excited about what lies ahead for me and the rest of my Maguuma brethren. I haven’t felt that sense of community in a long while in any game. The tactics were great, and communication was flowing. It probably left a bigger impression on me being as it’s my first time doing WvWvW in GW2, but I was a big time DAoC and WAR player as well.

I can attest (even though this has always been my home server), that coming to Maguuma wouldn’t be a mistake for anyone. Great sense of community, great and friendly people, more pride than you can shake a stick at and a determined group that I’d pit against anyone. We have FUN too! No matter what!

Or just don’t allow people who transfer to a server to participate in that weeks matchup..

The point of server transfers isn’t to cater to all the hardcore WvWvW and PvP guilds to always be on a winning server. The point is to balance populations and get well rounded time profiles for all users on a server and allow people to find their “home”.

The transfer system is being exploited.. Easy solution. Don’t let freshly transferred players participate in that weeks WvWvW. It will prevent people from switching week to week and it will give them more incentive to stay on a single server. Won’t be as much “band wagoning” and it will help to reduce queue times because people will be staying on servers and not causing massive influx in population.

I’m not crazy about prioritizing a queue, because of factors involving new characters, transfers out of necessity (guild or friends moving, lag, etc.). Why should people be punished for things out of their control? It’s a permanent penalization to all players. It would be prioritizing people based on character/account age which just isn’t right.

I’d go Charr Necro and Human Ranger. Aesthetically I think you’ll be happier with that decision. At least I would. Charr light cultural looks pretty awesome too. Humans look the best in the medium armor selections.

Well I had my first go at WvWvW tonight alongside my Maguuma brethren. It was a lot of fun!

I’m still picking up on all the shorthand and location names but I really felt like I contributed with my shouts and even had a few solo kills. (I’m only level 41 so I feel somewhat good about it )

Didn’t really encounter any Dragonbrand players but a LOT of SoS players. Some really good battles though

Look forward to more of it the rest of the week!

rogueprocess.2614:

36 and I’m in love with the game! Best MMO since vanilla WoW or maybe pre-cu SWG! I’m not comparing them as games, only as a timeline.

Pre-cu SWG was the bees knees as they say…

Turning 25 on saturday, been playing MMORPG’s since UO. I love GW2 and mostly because it produces nostalgic feelings that I had when playing SWG-Pre CU and UO.

I honestly believe the difference is the older players understand the nature of MMORPG progression and development. We’ve been around, we’re more patient and we enjoy it for what it is. When I played UO I was undeniably young compared to the majority of the playerbase and I could say the same for SWG. MMORPG’s really used to have a steep learning curve that didn’t lend themselves to young players. WoW changed a lot of that and set a precedent for mainstream MMO’s that I simply cannot stand.. That’s what younger gamers expect now and most people aren’t willing to accept change.

I feel as though the general population isn’t really groomed for playing a real, deep and sandbox style MMO. Most people like to be spoon fed, as you can tell by our societal structure and complacency IRL. I like the GW2 does give us more depth as far as theorycrafting, and they made progression a lot more free-form and not level dependent. Reminds me of the UO days when you could smack skeletons in the Graveyard north of Britain and gain weaponry and combat skills. Had to rely on other players to give you and idea of what to do. Same with SWG, it was all player driven content minus the “story” themeparks. The community was beautiful in that game.

Mastermind.3169:

I feel it is good that there is no sure way to make lots of ingame currency, but the waypoint-moneysink should be re-thought about a bit, always ending up in the minus for doing stuff does not feel good.

Adding mounts at a moderate initial price could be a great way to counter this. Make mounts cost 10 or 15 gp. I say that’s a fair price for something that will allow you to never spend any currency on travel again. Could probably even ask more. (Ready for angry comments about how that would be too much)

Xia.3485:

Kendu Kuzal.3985:

I’m not really sure how you disagree.

I only disagree with the part where you “have to work hard” to make money. In GW2 you don’t really need to work at it. No one has to grind gold for repairs or trait manuals unless they have a serious case of spindrift.

And yes, like you say, gear is so easy to acquire. Even at end-game imho, you don’t need to spend. I did spend though, because I lack patience and there’s nothing else of real important to spend that gold on anyway.

I suppose “working hard” is a bad way to describe the effort involved in GW2 to obtain gold. I think the term “dedication” works a little better. You just have to be dedicated to utilizing what the game offers instead of taking the dangling carrot (Trading Post Items). Patience is my weakness too, and I think that ANet knows a lot of people have that weakness. I think the balance is plenty fair though, I’ve found no problems saving ample funds.

Katostrophe.3274:

Loot always helps a game.

Just look at the Diablo/Torchlight/and Borderlands series. Those games are literally BUILT around loot drops and are insanely successful. There is just something to players about finding useful items all the time that is so fun.

I really think the rate of exotic and rare drops increasing would do wonders for this game

It would also put a chokepoint on gem sales and the like… which translates to less money for ANet, and less ongoing development for us. I agree that boss drops/dungeon drops could be improved but the rest is plenty fine. This isn’t Diablo or anything close to it. The infrastructure behind this game blows all three of those titles out of the water, and the servers and hardware required to keep this game alive dwarf those titles (aside from maybe Diablo). There is a reason that most titles in this genre (MMO-MMORPG) have monthly subscription fees, and that is because these games require a constant cashflow to keep the game worlds running. There has to be some incentive for time contributed to the game. If you make everything more available and easier to obtain, then people will complain EVEN MORE that their is no endgame or that it fades too quickly.

Most people can’t see the forest through the trees.

Xia.3485:

Kendu Kuzal.3985:

I know it isn’t real life, but how many of you are sitting on absurd masses of money for little work and time contributed? Probably nobody, unless they inherited it or have a very wealthy relative. If you want to be “rich” then you gotta work hard, and devote your time and dedication to it. That’s how it should be. Otherwise, gamble and have your chance of striking it big.

I disagree.

To be “rich” in GW2 you simply have to curb your spending (something you can’t do IRL due to taxes and rent/morgage). There isn’t really anything you need to spend on. There aren’t any obligatory gold sinks (other than manuals). Even changing traits at level 80 only costs 3 silver.

Repairs scale with your level, teleport fees scale with your level (and WvWvW gives you a free port to lions arch and every major city from there). Gear can be crafted with a little farming OR is acquired easily from dungeon running (be sociable). Runes also can be acquired from dungeons.. and dungeons yield a lot of silver in return (don’t wipe). So essentially you can gear up without spending gold or karma.

Most of my friends were surprised how easily they acquired the gold they needed for the training manuals; they din’t even have to try. There isn’t any reason to buy items off the TP really.. heck I leveled to 80 when the TP was “down for maintenance”.

As for WvW.. siege can be found in the jumping puzzle (although I hear its disabled now) or bought for badges. Gold isn’t really required for anything except repairs.

I’m not really sure how you disagree. That’s exactly what I’m saying. They make their money by dedicating themselves to it whether it seems that way or not. They aren’t spending all their money on stuff off the TP every level and they are resourceful in using all of the games systems to their advantage. People like the OP are the ones who spend spend spend and expect their cashflow to keep up for no additional work. I made the point earlier that I’ve had no problems saving up 5gp at level 39 and it’s because I don’t go buy stuff all the time and I don’t even see a need to. There are expenses in real life that are constant, and there are expenses in game that are constant. Repairs/travel etc. You don’t have to use instant travel all the time. You could play smarter and die less. You could get gear from questing/completion/loot.

I was making the point that an economy where all the money is freely and easily available is not much of an economy at all. Working for the currency gives it a value. If the gold was easily available, would there be a point in saving it? No. Because having a large mass of it wouldn’t have much value anyhow. People just like to see a big number next to some yellow pixels in their inventory.

This economy and monetary progression makes the user more conscious of what they do with it. A lot of players aren’t used to that.

I agree with what you’re saying, but you have to realize that a large part of the playerbase doesn’t think like we do. They aren’t used to getting useable gear supplied to them through content. They’re used to grinding gold, going to the Auction House, and buying something every 2 levels to stay viable. In GW2 not only do you get useable gear CONSTANTLY, you also don’t even need to have new gear every couple levels to remain viable at your level. At endgame its a different scenario, but in the leveling phases it’s not nearly as important.

Soulwatcher.2604:

Xia.3485:

Soulwatcher.2604:

Not making up facts let me log in and get the name so you don’t accuse me of trolling.

Its dubious when you remember prices but not what was being sold.

Heavy Moldy bag, 2 weeks after release I was selling them for 2 silver and some copper and I just sold the last one for 68 copper.

P.S. I never said I didn’t remember your putting words in my mouth. I said I wanted to get the name right!

First Lesson: Supply and Demand

That’s a prime example of supply and demand and a newly born economy. Two weeks into the game the TP was just barely getting on its feet, it didn’t even work for the most part during the first week. People had very few of those Moldy Bags in comparison to now. A fair market price hadn’t been established and people could sell things higher since there was less of them. There are more players, more of those bags being collected and circulated now meaning the price is going to drop and balance out.

The economy is a free market for the most part. The biggest setback to that is the inability to buy items below vendor price, but that doesn’t eliminate the free market from existing above that price. You can make a killing off people who do not know a fair price for items or materials. The economy here operates very differently from other games and a large part of it has to do with the real money revenue that ANet has to produce since they are not a sub-game. It also makes for a much more realistic economy as opposed to a game like WoW where it takes little effort to be “rich”. I know it isn’t real life, but how many of you are sitting on absurd masses of money for little work and time contributed? Probably nobody, unless they inherited it or have a very wealthy relative. If you want to be “rich” then you gotta work hard, and devote your time and dedication to it. That’s how it should be. Otherwise, gamble and have your chance of striking it big.

If you learn the basic laws of economics, you can make a serious piece of gold. If you collect materials for 6 months and stockpile them, you could potentially manipulate the market by sheer volume ON YOUR OWN (may not be realistic). Now think about manipulating the market with an entire guild or several guilds working together. Flooding the market with massive amounts of mats can have an impact across the board. This will create a dip or spike that will require time to re-balance. Etc.

Maybe I’m not worthy of being a part of this conversation since I don’t have a max level character, but I have over 5 gold pieces at level 39, with no problems equipping myself with gear. I play the Trading Post, and I always use it to sell items that are in demand. Materials are my money ticket. Salvaging and harvesting nodes anytime I see them has built up my bank faster than anything. I don’t even do constant node harvesting. I’m doing map completion, which provides me with gear, coin and experience. I have tons of karma to spend on gear as well. I have found very little need to even spend gold at this point, so I’m just going to save it up til endgame when I do need it. I also do not have a crafting profession currently. Simply adventuring, completing and saving has done the trick so far.

http://www.guildwars2riches.com/2012/09/guildwars2tradingpostcalculator.html

That should help you understand how it works a little bit better.

GreenZap.1352:

Kendu Kuzal.3985:

.

The problem is that what you say about GW 2 isn’t the reality. It’s the potential that GW 2 might become one day but atm it’s nowhere close to “deep character customization”.
Champions Online and City of Heroes (R.I.P) have that, GW 2 doesn’t because while it feels like the game is deep ArenaNet lost it touch with the skill system that many loved in the first games.

This is almost more of a console-action game then a “real” MMORPG make no mistake there is indeed MMO to GW2 but the RPG part is pretty non-existant in terms of actual character development.

I think you’re mistaken if you think the RPG part is non-existent. In comparison to GW1 and especially the first release of GW1, the RPG element in GW2 blows it away. This is the only mainstream (big name) MMORPG that offers this type of customization. You aren’t forced to go down any path, and you can literally play your character however you see fit. There is a huge variety of builds. There are no set roles, as in the holy triumvirate (tank, heals, dps). It’s far more open than most of what is available and it has the audience that could truly be opened up to the sandbox style that true MMORPG’s presented in the past. I know this isn’t a sandbox style game, and it never will be.. But it has the elements there that give players accustomed to the WoW style of “dumb” MMO’s a taste of what they haven’t been exposed to.

I think the problem you are having is grasping their attempt to meld the WoW style linear development with a open skill point development. It’s not perfect, but at least someone has been brave enough to stray away from the WoW clone mentality. I also think people are silly to try and compare games like WoW or even other sub games to this. It’s not a sub game and it does things that subbed games don’t. They are different animals with a common ancestor. The original RPG.

Doesn’t really bother me. I’m not a Min/Max player or someone that is so competitive it bothers me if someone kills me or I can’t kill them.

Bugs that change gameplay bother me. I like it when they fix those. As long as I’m aware of what’s going on I’m usually pretty “meh” about change. I’m adaptable, and if it’s major they’ll fix it.

I’ve noticed in my many years of MMO’s that the people that ruin the game are the constant whiners and people asking to “nerf” or “buff” things. Usually the devs are forced into catering to them because they threaten to leave en mass. The good thing about GW2 is that it isn’t a monthly sub, so those whiners don’t have the same pull

I think Algreg summed up the majority of it. Once balancing is better, and we have the elements above, GW2 will have the necessary ingredients. All the basics are there, it just needs the polishing and actual framework for ladders and GvG.

I don’t really consider GW1 as comparable to GW2 as some people would like to think though. The basic elements are the same but it isn’t anywhere near the scale or complexity of GW2. I don’t even really consider GW1 and MMORPG. It was much more linear, shorter and drove you into PvP almost exclusively.

I would call GW1 a Competitive Multiplayer Online Game with RPG elements and I would call GW2 a Massively Multiplayer Online Roleplay Game with competitive elements.

Similar, but you can see the slight difference. I think GW1 was more E-sport oriented from the start.

Just to clarify, I think GW2 has the POTENTIAL to be an E-Sport type of game.. I don’t believe it is ready NOW though.

I didn’t say anything about A-net handling their games like Hi-Rez and Tribes: Ascend offers some of the most competitive, balanced and cheat free E-Sport tournaments ANYWHERE. Public games may not be the same boat, but I’ve played a lot of them and never encountered a cheater. Tribes: Ascend also has NOT been abandoned by any means. Their resources are thinner at Hi-Rez so some development may have been pulled back, but they still release very good patches and updates. They’ve been releasing new maps and testing new maps, balancing weapons, etc. quite frequently

The reason GW2 has potential is because of its sPvP focused balancing. E-Sport wouldn’t happen in WvWvW as it’s open to anyone. sPvP and tournaments offer an avenue to provide E-Sport because the environments are contained. There is a lot of player skill involved in the PvP of this game as opposed to several other games within the “MMORPG” genre. Dodge offers a twitch/user interaction element that is essential in battle. That aspect lets the user have more of a role in the outcomes of their battles, which makes it more skill based. There is also a lot of class building that is not present in other MMORPGs. One class can fit SEVERAL roles, and be played to fit a niche within a group that has its own tactic. This is not the case in most MMORPGs, as the roles are pretty much defined.

Real E-Sport happens in Tribes: Ascend
Hi-Rez is also working on Smite, which looks like it’ll be an E-Sport staple as well.

GW2 has a ton of potential to be that sort of game.

I still have the first MMO feeling when I play an MMO with a lot of potential or when they’ve done things like the old days. UO was my first, I also played EQ, DAoC, AO, SWG, AoC, WoW, EQ2, LoTRO, WAR, GW1 and countless smaller names. The only three I ever played for more than a couple months were UO, SWG, and WAR. I played GW1 for awhile, but I don’t consider it the same caliber as the other three.. It’s more of an MMOG than MMORPG. I briefly tried the others in between but none of them gave me that sense of wonderment.

What do the MMO’s that I’ve enjoyed the most have in common? Minus WAR, which I loved for the realm vs realm and the lore, all of my other favorites offered FREEDOM with character customization. The two MMO’s I judge all others by are UO, and SWG pre-cu-nge. The skill systems and sandbox style of character progression offered a much better roleplaying game experience. I really felt like I could be who I wanted. Guild Wars 2 doesn’t give you that same flexibility, but it does a hell of a lot better than EVERYTHING else out now. The crafting and e-commerce side is lacking for a truer sandbox experience, and the leveling system (which is almost pointless in GW2) dumbs it down a little. I’ve probably played, and tested more MMO’s than most people have ever seen or knew existed and I know two things are for certain. Sandbox elements create a much better community and a much more immersive game.. GW2 has some of those elements and it really has the potential to turn this game into the standard for all MMOs.

I’m tired of hearing people talk about WoW as if it was forward-revolutionary to the game genre itself. It really wasn’t the pinnacle of MMO’s at the time. Blizzard just took a genre that was inaccessible because of a steep learning curve and a variety of goals and dumbed it down into a cookie cutter, system driven character builder. There is hardly ANY character customization in WoW vanilla, and you have very little freedom in character development. It takes you along the same path for every character, from start to end game. DAoC and SWG were leaps and bounds ahead of WoW in terms of revolutionary work and the same year WoW released so did EQII. The difference is, Blizzard already had a huge fan-base, most MMO’s at that time were from independent developers or smaller industry names. Blizzard was revolutionary for the INDUSTRY, not for the progress of the Genre itself. They turned MMO’s into a cash-cow and created a model that would get people hooked on content they had to continuously buy. They made the Genre more accessible, and that’s about the extent of anything revolutionary or evolutionary that they did for it.

GW2 is slowly opening the door for the casual and “dumbed” down gamers into the deeper aspects of MMORPG’s. The aspects that we haven’t had for awhile. Customization, TRUE theorycrafting and freedom to create the character that you wish to be. Roleplaying is what this genre was derived from and a big part of that is being your own character.

I’ve had no problems reflecting.. Usually the ones that speak as though they know best.. Don’t.

Sorry runeblade, maybe you’re just doing it wrong.

I think the build I posted works great, and I think a lot of other people will agree if they try it out. You’re not gonna be mowing down enemies like you can with 100 Blades, but you’ll be killing them, and taking almost no damage. Then you also have survival in WvWvW that you can’t get with most builds, and also make yourself more desirable in parties because of your revive, heals, and crowd controls.

I’d say it has a lot of the bases covered. It isn’t the best, but I think it’s a great start.

Yeah I’ve been checking that out as well. Looks like my best bet will be beginning of next week. Gonna try and bring 2 good friends with me as well.

Like 6-7AM EST ?

Phaeris, the mace, hammer and shield are all team oriented as well. They all provide control or weakness that ultimately effects teammates if being attacked or pursued.

Wish I could transfer to TC, been trying but it’s had a Full pop for 2 days. Can’t get on during the day since I’m at work. Ugh. Hopefully I’ll see an opening on Monday or Tues.

Yeah I was saying that the armor from Karma has the name pit fighter, but it doesn’t look quite the same. It’s open chested with a skirt type of legging and a single chunky shoulder pad. It’s not the same, just shares the same name.

Warriors for the most part are glass cannons. Do you not see all the survivability threads within the Warrior forum? Everyone is happy with the damage, but damage doesn’t matter if you can’t get a swing/shot off. Warrior kind of falls middle of the road for nerfs/boosts IMO. Not in as bad of shape as Necros or Eles, similar to guardian and maybe ranger or engineer, and behind thief and mesmer. I would say Necros need help and probably ele. Thief and Mesmer need some balancing adjustments. Guardians, Rangers, Eng, Warrior are all kind of hovering around alright. I think it would be a mistake to give Warriors more survivability without decreasing damage somehow.

Please explain how the warrior needs nerfed.

I agree with the OP as well. Not that I know any better than the developers, but the current system is very similar to the SWG system minus the ability to multi-class spec. The trait points offer you the ability to truly make your own build that is unique.

For those of you that didn’t play SWG (pre-NGE, aka “the golden years”). It was a sandbox style MMO that had the most incredible community and player driven content. They implemented a Skill tree system in which you built up a pool of experience. Your experience could be put into a specified skill within a class tree. Each class tree contained 4 core levels, a novice level, and a mastery level. It would work as follows:

Everyone had 255 spendable skillpoints but they could only be spent when enough experience was gained for a skill box.

You’d become a novice of a specified base profession at the cost of no experience and something like 15 skill points. The novice skill box would give you some base stats and weapon certifications- For Guild Wars sake, you wouldn’t pick your profession and spend points, it would just be the class you chose from the start.

Based on the weapon type you used (or crafting type you performed) you would gain experience in that specific weapon. Once you built up enough experience you could use it to purchase another box in your skill tree for that specified weapon. It would also spend a minimal amount of skill points, say maybe 2, since this is one of your first tier boxes. So now you’ve used 17 of 255 skillpoints. As you gain more experience you could use it for additional skillboxes. You’d have 4 total for each weapon type or specialization for a grand total of 16 boxes within a profession before mastery. So each of the 4 tiers of boxes would cost progressively more experience and skillpoints.

Once you reached 4th tier in a set of boxes, you might be able to progress into a mastery level profession. Some master level professions had several pre-requisites. Other master level professions didn’t.

I could see a similar system implemented with the trait system we use now, as it uses a similar principle. Instead of 255 skill points we currently get 40 trait points. You could easily bump that up to 80 points to properly mesh with all of the in game items.

Next you break the professions down by what we’d call “build types”. Lets use warriors.

Warriors would gain access to all weapons, or maybe one handed mainhand weapons from the start. As they used each weapon, they’d gain experience and could unlock traitpoints within related trees. Say, mace and hammers are linked to experience that would build defense and tactics skills. Two handers would build primarily precision with secondary power. Swords and axes would build power and condition, etc.
Once you got so many trait points within, you’d unlock the next rarity set of weapons or maybe just open up a better crop of them. (ie first tier grey-blue, second tier green-yellow). Perhaps the same would go for armor. May also tie your skills into it, or utilities into it.

So you are progressively getting better based on your experience, and gaining new masteries and skills/stats based on the boxes YOU choose. It eliminates skills associated with weapons you don’t use, and allows you to fine tune your spec even more. No levels necessary.

Obviously this is rough and would require a lot more thought, but I will say, the first thing the trait system freedom reminded me of was SWG. By my standards, the original SWG was the best MMO I had ever played simply because of the freedom and community it promoted. Also reminds me of UO to an extent as well, just more in depth. This is the first MMO I have played since the old days that I have really enjoyed progressing in. I’m glad A-net used the system it did, as it’s introducing a lot of casual or new MMORPG players to what made this genre so great in the first place. Freedom.

I didn’t know that Tarnished Coast was the unofficial roleplay server until today.. I really want to be there but I saw that it was full as well when I tried to transfer today.

AlexanderFaust.4518:

Kendu Kuzal.3985:

Too long to quote, due to character limit

uh… WOW.. I’m not really sure where to begin with that =/

No disrespect intended but why should people “create an alt and explore the rest of the content” or even bother getting 100% on their main, IF they don’t enjoy what they’ve already experienced in GW2?

The main reason I quit was due to an inability to find anyone ta do anything with.. and I’ve got 2 lv80’s ~ a Necro and Elementalist ~ 6 crafting professions at lv400.. and yet like the screenshot I’ve attached to this, you can see that I’ve not gotten past lv26 on my personal stories nor any more than 44% on world completion.

I’ve been to Orr, I’ve fought dragons and I’ve died in dungeon..

Long story short, not even server hoping or guild prostituting helped me find anyone that wanted to actually “experience” the game.. despite server hoping to more “populated” servers for a few weeks.

Most of them just wanted to “farm” or exploit a dungeon… and if you didn’t know “how” then they weren’t interested in you tagging along.

Thus turning GW2 into a single player game.. with occasional “co-op”.

Anywho, I created a topic to help people better understand what’s wrong with GW2 and the mentality behind “good suggestions”.

Feel free to check it out.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/links/Rewarding-Gear-Treadmill

Also, since you were talking about people “learning game design” and “appreciating the time spent” ~ why not take some time ta learn yourself?

Can check out my tutorials on 3D/Animation/Game Design via youtube ~ User = Requiemsvoid.

I’m not sure what servers you played, but I have had no problems finding people to play through and experience the game with on Maguuma. It’s not even an RP server and plenty of people are around to quest and explore with.

As for game design. I’m a Software Programmer by trade. I build mobile games and I do art for 2-d interfaces on the side. I’m well versed in 3dsm, Maya and I started to get into Zbrush on personal time. I’m no stranger to game development or MMO’s for that matter.

The mechanics and fluidity and GW2 are incredible in comparison to most of the garbage out there. They gave a lot of freedom to the player which is hard to do in such a massive game. I wouldn’t say it’s sandbox, but it does give the player quite a bit to play with as well.

The leveling phases of this game really do not lend themselves as well to co-operative play.. But the PvP and WvWvW do. Those two elements are a major portion of this game in the first place. They are the reason there is such a deep customization within classes. That being said, I still think there is a plethora of other players that would love to experience the game and enjoy it all the way through. I know.. I’ve met them and I am one.

This game has some problems, but it’s a totally different animal than WoW or SWTOR. The first Guild Wars was nothing like other MMORPG’s that were out either. Sure this game shares some elements with modern MMORPGs but it is by no means the same. This game is already doing many things better than other games, and you have to remember this ISN’T other games. What worked in those won’t necessarily work with these game mechanics or even the story. A lot of the comments I read have no factual basis and really are nothing more than unsubstantiated opinion.

GreenZap.1352:

Kendu Kuzal.3985:

I think something a lot of people are missing is the fact that this is called Guild WARS.

If you would have played hte first games you might not have been this hateful against people. The fact is that with GW2 ArenaNet pretty much butchered everything that made their games and their world into the marvelous being that GW1 was with dual-classing awesome skill trees etc etc.
GW1 was about playing around with skill builds, that was the endgame. GW2 has the WoW kinda endgame, grind grind grind for gear urghh…

So coming from GW1 (Proph, Factions, Night and Eye) GW2 is a little dissapointing ATM because it’s shallow and not deep at all. I hope they can evolve the game with some expansion packs because ATM the game is pretty meh…

Ofc I knew that the game wouldn’t be like the first games but I didn’t think it would be this eazy mode meh game either

First of all, I did play GW1 and I think GW2 has used several of the same elements. There is tons of theorycrafting going on in every profession thread. The same exact suggestions and whines were happening in GW1 as they are now. It’s inescapable. GW1 was FAR MORE shallow than this upon its initial release. Are you kidding? It was far more linear and far more restricted. There was even far less to do! It took time to get GW1 to be the game that so many love. In the same breath, a lot of people enjoy GW2 just as much if not more. Do you not remember doing the same grindy kitten to obtain stuff like Obsidian armor in GW1? It’s an MMO, that element will always exist. It isn’t new with GW2.

I can understand frustrations, but this game hasn’t even been out 3 months. It’s gonna take a good 6 months to a year before it’s even starting to be polished. That’s the life of an MMO.

I think something a lot of people are missing is the fact that this is called Guild WARS. A lot of complaints is the game stagnates at 80. It really doesn’t at all. Anyone who is level 80 right now probably hasn’t done 100% of everything there is to do or complete. If they are complaining there isn’t more to do.. They probably aren’t taking place in WvWvW or PvP. Those are two of the MAJOR assets to this game. What happens in an FPS after you play through the story? You start playing online competitively, playing countless matches until the sequel comes out. Because this is an RPG, you expect it to last forever and for new unending stories to be unraveled at the same pace you complete them? You’re nuts.

A HUGE part of this game lies in the WARS part of it. Battling opposing players and guilds. It’s E-sport. The game is designed for competitive play at end-game. PvE content will eventually run out in even the most perfectly designed RPG. The beauty of End-Game in Guild Wars, and other RPG’s that are pvp centric,is that they never truly end. You reach max level and collect your gear and get yourself to the most viable point for combat. When you’re decked out, thats when the REAL game begins and you become competitive at the highest level. Battling for your world’s stake and bragging rights.

You guys are taking a GAME, and expecting LIFE. This game is so huge in comparison to the games you probably watch on television everyday, like Football, Baseball, Hockey, Golf etc. The part that keeps those players playing is the competitiveness and dynamic style that every event/game is different.

The people who built this game have put in thousands of hours of work, and continue to everyday just to please us.. The player base. They are doing an outstanding job in comparison to other MMORPG’s.. And any other MMO built to this scale would undoubtedly have a monthly fee.

I’ve been playing since BETA’s, had early start access and I’m just now hitting level 40 on my main. I’ve completed a LOT and I still have a ton I can do in all the other 1-40 zones. I play pub. pvp games to break it up on occassion and I’m starting to throw myself into WvWvW. I’m in no hurry to hit max level. A game is meant to be enjoyed. You ruin it for yourself when you hit max level in a week. Did you really enjoy any of it? Did you really do everything there is to do? Are you really any further ahead?

The reason games get ruined or destroyed is because of Whiners constantly asking for changes and demanding change to a system that is still being refined. They are fixing bugs as we speak, and they know that things might not be perfectly balanced in some areas. When you play Skyrim do you have the urge to call the developers and tell them to fix the things you didn’t like? No, you just play it and enjoy it for what it is.

I’m not saying we need to just accept the games faults, but so many of you whine about what ISN’T fun or necessarily conducive to YOUR fun. That’s all well and good until it starts affecting the fun of others.

My advice. Start a new character, and take your time. Experience the game for real. Give the writers and developers your courtesy of appreciating all the solid work they’ve put into this masterpiece. For those of you who think you could do better.. I challenge you to learn a few programming languages, build 3-d models, create textures and create a story that more than just YOU would want to experience. Then put up with a bunch of whining kitten who think they know better.

In the perfect world, we’d all get we want. We all know that a perfect world doesn’t and will never exist for that very reason. What I want may stop you from getting what you want.. This game isn’t catered to your individual needs. I’ve probably played and test more MMO’s than most people can shake a stick at.. Sure I’ve found bugs or things that I wasn’t crazy about, but I knew those features I didn’t like.. someone else probably loved. It wasn’t my place to ruin it for them.

TLDR; I hate to say it.. but L2P. Learn to ENJOY a GAME. You’re making it worse for yourself. There are plenty of people loving it. Take the time to appreciate all the effort put into this. You’re only experiencing the minutia, if you’re level 80 and complaining.. you’re doing it wrong.

For what it’s worth, I really intend to get involved and lead. I may not go for the commander title just because I don’t see myself being on as frequently as many others but I do have every intention of doing what I can to increase morale and make us as effective as I can within my own ability. I literally haven’t heard a single person on our server say that we have good numbers in WvWvW, but I have heard that we have fun, and we have plenty of potential to do well and when we can get a decent group we do great. I’d much rather be the underdog, it takes TRUE skill, and TRUE tactics to overcome an enemy in that situation.

So look for me in the future, I’ll be doing my best to push Maguuma to the top

In game name: Azder

Well, all of this tells me one thing. I need to familiarize myself with WvWvW more and get to a point were I can command like I did in WAR. Sounds like we have a lack of dedicated commanders or leaders on Maguuma. Could be wrong, but sometimes a little direction goes a long way.

There is also Pit Fighter armor from the Fields of Ruin Karma Rewards. It doesn’t look the same but very similar. At lower levels in the snowy areas of Gendarren Fields and Lornar’s pass there is a set of armor that looks identical to the “pit fighter” armor from Fields of Ruin, but it doesn’t have the same name. It’s also a karma reward set.

Maybe if we do have the server numbers, we don’t have them in WvWvW.. I dunno. Just what I’ve heard/read/been told.

Or sponge damage and provide boons, condition removal and heals to those around you?

Actually, Maguuma does have pretty low pop compared to other worlds. I’m not into WvWvW yet so I can’t comment on our performance there. A lot of people have said the pop seems lower on Maguuma, people have even left for other worlds strictly because of that.

I’ve also been told by a lot of people that we have excellent talent, but we don’t have the numbers to effectively play the map. We can’t be everywhere attacking and at the same time defending what we do have. Better to fortify and build out then spread yourself too thin and lose all grip.