Guild Wars 2

what I need is a active guild EU time, where always find someone to follow and play with, really don t know what to do ingame. login, feel alone and logoff since I bought hot.
someone to tell me what to do, party, do dungeons/fract/events…use constructively the little time I can give to the game
My goal atm is gold/mats farming…rly want to craft ascended.
so want to learn meta pve: build gears event chains.
need a teacher

I’m in EU zone…Gandara server atm

Just came back after quitting for months, have ele/ranger/revenant 80…
My guild is inactive, I feel confused and abandoned, don’t know what to do, where, etc.
Need the basic notions about HoT, how to do masteries and spec, and everything else.

Add me as friend, or even invite me in a guild (need high population and casual/pve tolerant) and play together.
A mmo alone, to me, is meaningless.

see you in game, add me!

I’m totally new to HoT, played and 80ed 3char in gwvanilla, but feel totally alone as my old guild is not active and find nobody to play with.
My chars are on Gandara.

need a guild or honest/goodhearted players to have patience to teach me how to do meta and optimize my chars.

ty

nope. you re confusing grind, which actually is here, with gear treadmill…that is putting new items and trash what previously called the BiS gear.

the grind in gw2 exists and is a heavy one. for cosmetics. for ascended. titles. legendaries. masteries.

the issue casual players address is not “challenge”. it s repetitiveness, grind and boredom.
if something is so difficult that probably just 1 in 100players will succeed i’m ok to be that average 99%…maybe i would t even try it.

what i dislike is that here is not “challenge” to have bis..but just too long.
legendaries? i can tolerate it, it s more of a status symbol and QoL improvement.

but I absolutely can t accept that grind to ascended.
don t want to craft. nor grind gold to buy it. nor materials.
I want the bis gear to be given free or almost free to me, then start the true endgame being competitive with the others in any sector of the game, wvw or raids….just a matter of my players skill not my char stats or unlocked masteries.

this is why i bought gw2 in the beginning. easy exo, then just learn to play. and that s why i won t play it ever again.
no, ascended are not “not needed”. everything that has even +0.01 stat is BETTER. then it s required,

the term mmorpg is incompatibile with esport.
a game where someone is better than another because of better stats (coming from gear, farm, grind, gold, etc) is not competition.

the best thing to do do was to delete manifesto and forget about it..but still devs keep it online and occasionally quote it.
really really bad move :/

HoT is nothing similar to the vanilla, it aims to a different slice of players’ population.
and obviously, i just didn t buy it and ragequit.
There is no post that will make anet go back, manifestos or philosophy.. there is no useful discussion with who asked for and like things this way, will clearly defend it.
ragequit, as soon and as long as the game is not what we like, is the only tool we have.
it s just marketing and selling copies/gems. they think it s the best for their finances.

I don t think that the game will ever go back to what we liked at the beginning. but now gw2 is nothing so different from other mmo….old fans playerbase gone…even wow losing players because of boredom..
hard times are coming. they’ll try to bring back a part of casuals.
but “betrayed” customers like me won t come back

agree with most of the posts.
gw2 simply changed the audience it caters to.
I don’t know if it ll manage to fight with wow as mmorpg or with other mmos as an e-sport..but it is no more a casual friendly game.
not as it was at launch.

what really irritate me is it’s still presented by both players and anet as a “different” game.

I can’t go back to wow neither to gw2 because they’re both “mindless walkthrough to unlock everything”. Or any other mmo.

This is what MMORGP is about: grind, grind and I forgot to mention of course GRIND !

You’re right, that’s exactly the reason.
And gw2 nothing different.

They’ll do what can make them earn more money…so will try to entertain both factions.
still pretend to keep it no-grind no-treadmill game in appearance, while creating mastery-level gates…and all the other raid/craft/pvp+pve stuff we already know.

Reasonable choice, but not enough to make everyone happy, especially gw2vanilla original population

MrH.2591:

There’s a good Reddit post about this here: http://www.reddit.com/r/guildwars2/comments/3q0d0e/_/

They’ve definitely moved away from the casual friendly philosophy with HoT and that’s a shame, it’s what I and I assume many others found so appealing when compared to other MMOs. I played WoW like a job for 5.5 years and I didn’t want that again, but I missed the genre and GW2 was perfect but not so much any more. Even the story is gated behind masteries.

I’m sure that, when they’ll realize that if people wanted to play another wow clone, wow is still online… and players will just come back to it, so HoT will end losing both gw veterans AND wow-ers, we’ll see a manifesto 2.0 and another 180degrees change of direction.

And I won’t buy HoT or play gw2 until that moment

“Grinding is a term used in video gaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive tasks.”
even if one enjoys repeting things, it’s still grind.
even if there are many ways to achieve something (not the case of legs, as you re forced to do many things for long hours, even if you don t like it. nor ascended, as you re forced to craft it, drop is largely infficient, almost impossible) but grind is MUCH more time-convenient so that simply playing as you like will give the same result but in unreasonable time, that is still grind.

the truth, imho?
very few people enjoy grind.
simply they know is it the only way that allows people to “win” just wasting more time than the others who can’t afford it/ can do it but spread ingame hours in more time/ absolutely don t want to grind especially for bis.
a competition about time, instead of skill.
and just try to defend their statusquo.

gw used to be a game where what made the difference between me with 15h/week and another 50hrs/week was skins and titles – ingame skill doesn t need stats. and if it s true that there is a time/learning/performance curve, needs much less time.
or it can take forever if one simply is not good at something. that s how things go.
but grind..grind is just grind. and anybody (but only them) who agree and can afford to login these long hours will have his reward.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Sirendor.1394:

GrapeGatsby.6937:

I don’t get these types of post aren’t all MMORPGs inherently built so that the players will grind for something? If there was no grind and everything was given to players, what exactly would you do in this type of game for end game content aside from PvP? Also what do you define as a “satisfying feeling of achievement”?

No… there’s games where players are allowed to PLAY the content they like without having to grind x then craft y etc. to then finally do the things they like. Sadly those games are rare because they’re not as lucrative as a massive grindmill that keeps players working their kitten off.

Yep. They’re rare because people don’t stick with them. They play for a while, get their stuff early then go to the forums where they complain about nothing to do and leave.

So that leaves games with grind. Don’t blame the game for giving people what they really want, not what they say they want. Devs see what holds people year after year versus what loses people quickly and they know what to put in their game.

Sounds more addiction than fun

fireflyry.7023:

maddoctor.2738:

. Unique rewards were always supposed to be skins anyway and never more powerful items.

^This.

I don’t mind “grind” or long term reward mechanics. It really is an inevitable consequence of the genre in that you have to cater to this type of player as much as those that choose to not play this way. I respect that even if game play wise I personally abhor it and choose not to take part in work simulation in a video game.

To each their own.

My biggest issue is rewarding players that choose to take part with more in-game power and statistical gear based advantage than those that choose not to, or even simply don’t have the option or luxury of such timesink.

It’s my biggest bone to pick and why I’m holding off on purchase of HoT till the dust settles. Have your flashy skin or title showing your “uber-awesomeness!!!”…could not care less. Be more powerful in-game because you have the luxury of playing for 30+ hours a week while I might be lucky to squeeze in 10 due to outside commitments.

No thanks.

Guild Wars was the game you played if that wasn’t your thing.

Yes, agree…especially with the “Guild Wars was the game you played if that wasn’t your thing”
It used to be, but it is no more.

Wow is that since the launch. You knew it when bought each of dozens expansions.
Gw2, i knew at first: no grind for bis.
then it’s grind for bis but you don’t need it.
now it’s you might need it but hey, just play other content and not raids.

Ascended is a massive effort, although not a “continuous effort”.
Legendaries are going to be even worse.
we still do not know if there will be treadmill or not.
Infusions are there for that very specific purpose: increasing numbers, like ascended vs exo. not cosmetic.
“makes no difference” has no meaning when talking about mmos.

again. less grind doesn’t mean no grind at all.

ps: I played wow wotlk and cata and had “preparatory gear”: not so boring and slow as ascendeds…even if steps of a treadmill.

Tirien.1326:

I just came from WoW after playing it for around 1 month, i usually play it 1-2 months every other year, and every time after trying to complete as much AP as i can and try as much different things as i can, i always come to the realisation that.. “Why… Why am i doing this? Do i get Achievements in real life by doing them here, no, do i get anything from it, no, is it worth all that hundreds upon hundreds of hours to complete, no”
………………….

Not just gearing up (Which i agree should take time, not like in Gw2) Building up your character should take time.

But every little part of WoW is a huge grind, every little small thing is a grind….
That Gw2 has some grindy parts is okay, same goes for WoW, but it shouldn’t end up taking ALL your time for doing anything, if a game is that grindy, it lacks on several other aspects.

So for me, legendary should stay legendary, and that SHOULD be a grindy part of the game… If i one day get one, most ppl would have one, that takes away the legendary status to a common one. I wouldn’t want that xD

English is not my native language.

Well, i agree with the first philosophical part.
The latter part: there is already as much grind as you wish.
Full ascended is not shorter than preparatory raiding gear..and legendaries won’t be shorter to get than full raid-reward gear.

there is no evident direct correlation between between the 2 parts, though.

Don’t care if it’s the least grindy in the market, if it generates income or not.
I chose gw2 and not other mmos for a reason.
Each customer has his preferences: no grind to have bis…and ascended is a huge grind for my playstyle.
At the beginning it was enjoyable, but the launch of ascended made me quit. This latter development of raids convinces me that it’s not what i desire to play, so coherently won’t buy neither gw2 nor other mmos.
maybe I’m the only one? or there are other people like me who bought gw2 thinking it would have been just cosmetic grind?
it’s the same. my conditions are the same.

edit: once again, no problem with grinding skins. i did it and enjoyed it.
i don t want to grind bis for weeks or months..and don t want to craft anything.
as it used to be at the beginning when i chose to play it.
the latter evolution caused me and other guildmates and friends to quit too.

Same stats as ascended, I think.
if ascended were readily available, legendaries would be beautiful skins and nice QoL improvement..but nothing more. So more cosmetic than necessary grind.
IMHO, obviously.

i don’t care of grind for status symbols titles skins and so on.
what I can’t stand in gw2 is to be numerically disadvantaged, even just that 5% (or much more in agony res) so a part of game is precluded…such as masteries.
but masteries is still good, just play as you want and unlock everything, maybe slowly.
Fractals and ar..and now the elitism that is going to start with raids is what absolutely dislike..and that caused my ragequit/ no buy expansion.

good alternatives? what the game promised at the launch.
cosmetic grind, no grind for the BiS, just story, living story and events.

just make ascended tradeable, much more common as drops…and leave legendaries as is it now, no matter as it’s a skin.
This is the only thing I would accept.
Until that moment..no gw2 nor any other mmo.

Harper.4173:

Ohoni.6057:

i’m not going to sit here and advocate gw2 as a grind-free game, but to label it grindy? did you just start playing mmos this year? gw2 is a vacation on a beach compared to silkroad

The measure is not of how it compared to the competition, but rather in how it compares to the ideal. Other games might do things worse, that does not mean that GW2 always does it as well as it could.

This here is your problem – you’re idealistic – ideals don’t really matter – what matters is the competition because ultimately people will play your game or other games.
You must make a game better than other games – not an ideal game – because the ideal game doesn’t exist – it doesn’t compete with your for customers.
As long as you’re better than other games you’ll have the customers – regardless of whether your game is ideal, good or even bad.

You just have to be the best alternative. Doesn’t matter if that alternative is still good or bad as long as people need your product and yours is the best.

It’s not simply idealistic.
If gw2 manages to keep people ingame being at the same time non-grindy non-BiS non wow-clone , it’s all in devs/anet/money interest.
Indeed, it’s the only reason the game sold at the very beginning: DIFFERENT.
And it sold MANY, MANY copies.

probably they don’t want to take the risk to cater to a potentially smaller population of users, as another consistent part of players just will play the traditional mmo?

maybe why those people who bought the game initially, then quitted for boredom?

As astralporing said, I’m sure that many players quitting after launch is a natural process, independent from grind-nongrind-long term goals.
Independently from launch of ascended to “rescue” some users back.
and lost many other because of ascended, not for its absence.
Shifting to BiS elitism is not mandatory. Sure we don’t know all the numbers and statistics, obviously anet did the best for their finances.
The only thing hurting me is that gw2 pretended and STILL pretends to be different, while it isn’t.
“don’t kitten on my leg and tell me its raining” .
and no, it’s not the necessary way. It is the easiest, though.

Timiok.1048:

Ascended is such an insignificant boost to your stats (About 5%) that I actually wonder if it would really cripple your team to use exotic armor. If we were talking about FoTM then I’d understand, since they have infusions, but I don’t see how it will be much better unless they plan on making ascended better in some way.

Wait for the first patches/ updates to be launched, then decide if and how ascended will be “required”; not just “mechanical” feasibility of the raid, but also guilds and parties’ attitudes towards your gear.
No more promises or manifestos or tweets, just watchful wait.

“Just having the additional masteries makes it EASIER since you’ll be able to exploit the benefits around the boss raid.”

Again, vertical progression.
Not mandatory (additional masteries, not a certain minimum level which is necessary), but gives advantage in some way.

Well, masteries can both be vertical and horizontal progression.
Horizontal as it unlocks regions, poi or something else…“cosmetic” ones.
Vertical as it makes your char able to reach and “win” endgame content – raids,
just as if it was AR or any other numeric parameter.

Bingo. 3yrs ago people chose a game that appealed their preferences.
Then came those who wanted another wow grindy game.
the rest of the story, you know.

It’s how things go, probably anet decided that it was convenient to satisfy the latter audience, losing the other.
Obviously who don’t feel ok about it will BOTH quit – AND ask for a change of direction.
And when feel it’s enough or it’ll be (even) more evident that this shift is not reversibile, THEN leave the forum too. Exactly when he means to

Cdoto.4920:

Substance E.4852:

If Anet is going to shoot their own kitten off and try to lock instanced content behind grind barriers and not through genuinely harder content, people will just leave for games that do a much better job of it.

Raiding has the possibility of being a genuinely good way to bring in people not satisfied with what GW2 has to offer right now. If Anet decides to instead make it a pale imitation of what other games do, those people are likely to stay right where they are.

This is true, and why everyone should care about the grindy gearing-up process.

From the start, this game’s been about doing something different, and doing it well. Guild Wars 2 has some really neat combat systems, and when the encounters are more about dealing with interesting mechanics than performing optimal might stacking, they can be really fun! The more hoops they make you jump through before you get to do stuff, though, the more they move away from their emphasis on fun, active gameplay and toward the usual MMO time-sink-as-a-fun-substitute that many of us came here to get away from.

If you want to grind for more powerful gear, there are much better games for that, and there are always going to be.

nope, because many of these people already in gw2 need this grind. As it has already happened with ascended and as now ascended finally found their usage outside fractals (and now fractals are the necessaary step to be prepared for raids. people didn t do fractals? now they have to)

Ok, so nothing new.
Raids I wouldn’t do (and sorry but I don’t believe that a raids will be a convenient way of acquiring a full set with desirable stats..it should be a very high droprate and i really don t think il will happen. anet created new Legendaries and ascended with a precise purpose of time goldsink.) and ascended still to be crafted with hundreds of gold.
I’ll wait till anet decides to change again his projects for gw2.

and as once they totally changed direction, they could do it again.

what part of the expansion features am i missing that ascended would become easier to obtain? O.o

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3obl9x/gw2_raids_endgame_casualpro/

My opinion is that there is no dialogue, and anet can’t cater both kinds of players, casual and raid-fans.
This whole thread and the similar others just prove it, it’s a cycle of the same reasons..

I think that with raids devs have already chosen the latter.

grindind for BiS? nope. I just want it without insane effort.
It would be fine to have full ascended without grinding for months (and acquire without crafting, also).

grind for a legendary skin? fair to me, it was the same since the beginning.

grind for masteries? if few hours and nice events, fine. if slow and repetitive, no.

tough raids? good, assumed that i ve got the same gear and masteries the others have, so no “handicaps”.

until/if these things happens, i won’login again.
that’all. see you in some months.

Coulter.2315:

Avster.1935:

Ascended gear would be a real pain for those who like multi-classing…

You gain +20 Primary Stat and +16 Secondary Stats from Ascended Armour – just skip it… It is EXTREMELY unlikely to be the difference between win and loss.

You will not need Ascended Armour.

So if not important, anet should just make ascended gear just a skin.
And let infuse and use AR also on exotics. Nobody would complain, right?
Why those who whined to have a progression beyond exo (and so bought a game as it was,then complained asking it to become something it wasn’t) should be more logical and reasonable than who didn’t want it (and bought because of it, exactly because there WASN’T nor raids nor hard-to-acquire BiS)?

But if there is no difference, why did they bother to implement it and kitten off a part of users..?

Miellyn.6847:

people will cry, their problem isn’t ascended gear, there are more than sources for it
the problems are the boss specific skins and and legendary armor which you can only get through raids

Well, to me the issue is exactly ascended:
A long long grind, that force you to max crafting and spend a lot of gold and time.
Yes, legendary may be a QoL and aesthetic improvement, but as long as they’re “equivalent” to ascended in stats and slots and AR, I can deal with it.
But giving me a chance to acquire in another way the ascended i need and give me the opportunity to test my skills in raids and high level fractalss without being excluded because of gear would be a nice idea…probably sufficient to make me buy the expansion.

Uhm, another “gate”. I’m even more perplexed..
Good that it can be traded, but buy something is not the best kind of an “alternative way”

Explain in what kind of “misguidance” am I falling that AR has already excluded me from pve endgame in fotm?

Arlee.7038:

Kevan.8912:

If ascended has a reason to exist, enough for someone to spend time and resources to craft it and to anet to receive a lot of whines and go against what previously stated, it’s true also the opposite, that someone may dislike it so much for the same reason: because it’ BiS and gives a small but existent increase in stats.

and again, agony res is not negligible.
and again, it’s a long, long grind that you cannot avoid, just as agony, as you have to craft it and cannot drop it or obtain in other ways.

Umm, actually you can get ascended gear and weapons as drops in fractals and from world bosses.

A negligible droprate of a random piece. Never dropped one in many, many months of world bosses and 10-15lvl fract. Not so efficient to do a full ascended set with desired stats.

If ascended has a reason to exist, enough for someone to spend time and resources to craft it and to anet to receive a lot of whines and go against what previously stated, it’s true also the opposite, that someone may dislike it so much for the same reason: because it’ BiS and gives a small but existent increase in stats.

and again, agony res is not negligible.
and again, it’s a long, long grind that you cannot avoid, just as agony, as you have to craft it and cannot drop it or obtain in other ways.

Fotm is more a gearcheck on agony resistance than “skill”.
If challenging content was just a test about skills and knowledge of game mechanics, it would be ok for me.
but there is just a time/gold sink with a passive attribute on a unavoidable damage.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Kevan.8912:

All true. And "You have to be “this” tall to enter." is exactly where the problem is.

I contradicted myself there. It should be: You have to be “this” tall to win.

Traditional endgame trap: get the endgame xxx (change xxx with mastery, stat, exp, gear, attunement, paragon, EGO..) to access exclusive content. of course access to something is meaningless if you can’ t win it in ANY CASE, just because it’s calibrated to be done with that gear, whether you re a good player or not.
Once again, AR and stats are just timesinks. please do not use “gear” and skills in the same post.

Don’t care if 1% content or 10%…just a matter of %, but typical timesink and “make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun”. definitely.
And ascended is a HUGE, unpleasant, time and life consuming gate, even worse than the worst of a f2p game.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Didn’t log into the forums for a day, and I walk into this…

Anyways, let’s go over some of the discussion that’s been going on in this thread. I’ll take the arguments apart one by one to make it easier to digest:

Raids should have different levels of difficulty like FotM

No. Raids are hardcore end-game challenges. What’s the point in saying “I beat the first Raid Wing” when someone can say the same thing with an easy button engaged? There should not be the opportunity for everyone to beat a Raid. Either your team is good enough to beat it, or they’re not. Simple as that.

Raids with lower difficulty levels won’t reward as good

It’s not just about the loot. It’s about the accomplishment of actually beating the content. If Anet were to implement easy Raids and hard Raids, you basically kill the content.

I can’t do Raids. I’ll quit the game.

Raids are just one single challenge in an entire game full of Casual friendly content. Just because you can’t complete this 1% of the game, doesn’t mean the other 99% ceases to exist. No one will quit the game just because of Raids.

Designing Raids means Devs have no time for other content

There are multiple teams working on multiple projects at any given time. Once HoT goes live, the team goes right back to designing Cantha making other content. I wouldn’t be surprised if Colin already has people working on the next expansion.

Raids are an MMO trap the Colin promised there wouldn’t be any

No, Raids are just one more type of game play. Don’t like Raids? There are still Dungeons and FotM for you and your party to run.

I’m a Casual gamer, so I can’t play Raids

Not true. Raids are open for anyone to try. It’s not locked away from you. The part that will prove to be difficult is beating the end boss. But failures should encourage you to become a better player, and a better team.

Raids require me to have good gear

Yes. Yes it does. And that’s not a problem at all, since this is end-game Elite level content. If you’re not geared to walk into the hardest content available, then you’re not prepared to win. There’s a Gear Gate, Skill Gate, and a Mastery Gate. Later wings require all three, and then some. Think of it like that sign at the Disneyland rides: You have to be “this” tall to enter.

All true. And "You have to be “this” tall to enter." is exactly where the problem is.

mmorpg is actually more a genre about character’s growth than skill.
People want to feel that they are growing…also if that it’s just a feeling, as mobs upscale with dps, armor, etc. on an endless hamster wheel.

What makes me smile is that the same people who want to make their chars grow with BiS (and perhaps would leave the game without a long term goal which cause an increase in a parameter, as ascended) are often the same vocal people who ask casuals to give up and go somewhere else, because their “lack of skills”.

simply because they know that just playing more time than the others provide them the sufficient advantage to win (or at least, as reward, the access to specific contents who lead to even more evident performance improvement, which is not for everyone)…a psychological trick to demonstrate themselves that they are actually better than who simply has not enough time to achieve the best gear available.

Coulter.2315:

Kevan.8912:

Coulter.2315:

you cannot design a game that will grant the same experience to 12-90 yr olds in all professions in all desired focuses of life.

Exactly, but the problem about it is that they designed and sold the game to someone…and after a while, totally changed direction.

Erm.. They announced Challenging Group Content as soon as HoT was spoken about – you were sold CGC and Raids, if you bought HoT you’re getting what they advertised. HoT was sold on the inclusion of raids (dsignated CGC initially but raids have been spoken about for a long time now), you cannot buy it and complain you were mislead somehow…

I mean if compared to what game was like at launch (can call it vanilla now?). I have not bought and I won’t buy HoT.

Coulter.2315:

you cannot design a game that will grant the same experience to 12-90 yr olds in all professions in all desired focuses of life.

Exactly, but the problem about it is that they designed and sold the game to someone…and after a while, totally changed direction.

well…arpg like poe or d3 have a really little rpg component. It’s just..a grindfest, exp and gear oriented.

gw2 core content as massive+sp ? yes…at launch. But as soon as I knew that a part of it was gated by AR and crafting, it became just another mmo with non-cosmetic timesinks.
And now, even more typical: raid-oriented.

Tregarde.6031:

GW2 is already one of the most friendly MMO’s to casual players. I’ve been able to level several characters to 80, gear them up with Exotics, and most of it solo over the past 3 years.

Well, one of the most friendly mmos doesn’t mean it’s actually casual friendly, but just that it used to be less elitist/raid oriented. (it used to be: I think it has already changed)

OP, you’re not alone.
But to me , MMOs are just like a “massive sp rpg” (i would add online to your definition, as there are definitely massive sp rpg, but online and coop component is quite bad, when present -see dragon age, witcher, fallout) but with other people, far from toxicity, discrimination and competition, just to enjoy playing together.

Unfortunately, mmo in general and mmos are the wrong place to non competitive, non elitist players.

If you have any idea about where to find this content-massive, massively online single-player-like rpg, let me know
It s long years I wait for it

Astralporing.1957:

PopeUrban.2578:

and there’s no telling what other acquisiton methods they may or may not have added to HoT.

If those hypothetical new acquisition methods change the situation that much to have a serious positive impact on difficulty of obtaining ascended, i may change my opinion, but so far we haven’t heard even a hint that anything like that is planned. Besides, based on past experience, any method with such a big impact would get nerfed into the ground within hours anyway.

Probably, it’s the only condition that may convince me to buy HoT
Acquisition of ascended much easier than now (and without crafting, if possibile)
I’m 1000% sure it won’t happen.

Ayrilana.1396:

La Goanna.8142:

Ayrilana.1396:

Here’s s perfect solution.

Anet makes there be two modes for raids: normal mode and hard mode.

The hard mode will be what is currently intended for raids.

Normal mode will exist solely for those players that want to experience the story within the raids. The enemies and bosses have minimal mechanics and can be killed like how current bosses are killed (i.e. Just auto attack until they die). They will also not get any rewards as that’s reserved for hard mode only.

Everyone wins.

What about the ones who don’t want to grind for ludicrously expensive gear, but still want a greater challenge other than pressing 1?

Also, good luck getting casuals interested if there’s zero rewards of any sort involved; that’s not good for the long term. I’ll feel bad for new players who want to try out the raids but can’t because the LFG panel is constantly empty, sans for core elitists who’ll kick those out who’re aren’t in full ascended everything.

Ok. Drop rates are 10% of whatever the levels are in hard mode and subjected to the same weekly lockout. If ascended chests have a 10% drop rate in hard mode then they’ll have a 1% drop rate in normal.

So that who is already decently geared, only gets better gear..while the others get..nothing. A very good example of skill-oriented game.

And what if: everyone drop ascended..but only in hardmode raid you can get legendary skins?
It seems more fair play to me.

PopeUrban.2578:

GW2 basically already future proofed against the “hardcore doomsday” scenario be ensuring that when they release content, the vast majority of it is accessible to the widest portion of the player base.

exactly. vast majority and widest portion is not 100% users.
thats the reason of all this flames and whines.

GW2 was born as the no raid no grind no BiS game.
It was sold with this specs, to people like me who desired to do open world events, living story, cosmetic grind.

To me and to this people, the implementation of FOTM AR and ascended had already been a kick in the teeth. So much that many of I knew quitted immediately, while others continued to login and enjoy the other contents, that are enough for a while.

However, now everything about raids, gear requirements to do it sound again like a betrayal. I don’t care if it’s 5% of the total contents of the expansion, still there it is.
Don’t care if anet was forced to do it to keep logged that part of players who require hardcore endgame content and a long, slow progression towards better performance.
It’s something some of us can’t stand at all.

I understand that devs must cover a huge range of users’ desires, but they made unsatisfied exactly those players they sold the game to at the very beginning.

I know: “it was 3years ago” “things change” “they found that people got bored of no progression after few weeks” “you can just skip raids or ascended” “probably you can close a raid naked if you’re very skilled” “there is enough other content to play many hours”.

I don’t care if someone thinks that “casuals don’t deserve endgame” “casuals shoudn’t worry about endgame because even if properly geared, they certaily would lack skills” (I’m not sure of that, indeed. maybe that a “pro” just fears it, that without that shiny weapon, their skill is exactly the same of that dirty noob?) “casuals would whine also if properly geared they’re melted by raid boss” (maybe, but i prefer to blame myself knowing that it’s my fault, and not my gear’s)

Simply, don’t want to feel behind anyone because of gear. Don’t want to work towards a long term objective, if that objective represents a gate to anything.
I chose this game and not any other game because of it.

The bad, bad, bad thing is that is exactly that part they now exclude from endgame who they had addressed with their launch advertising.

If GW2 had been like this from the beginning, me and many other filthy casuals would never have been here whining about what had been promised to them and would have skipped it as any other MMO I skipped in the past, knowing time and grind they need to be played properly.
And yes, gw2 is a bit different, but not enough.
(too tough for me to arrange this thought in words, i apologize for my grammar, I’m not english.)

Just make greens, exotics, ascended and legendary the same stats, and balance it all at once.
Leave the difference just in appearance, animations, skins.
Make raids so difficult for anyone that only the most skilled players can finish it..and reward them with rare skins.

So, THIS is no grind for BiS.
Pros have their reward, casuals can’t blame anyone than theirselves and lack of knowledge of game mechanics.
Problem solved.

Any other trick such as BiS/ grind is just a timesink.

Ice.5162:

Do people even know what “grinding” means? Gosh people got so kittening spoiled with this game…

If they provide you with MULTIPLE ways to gain MEANINGFUL progress, IT IS NOT GRINDING.

The kitten do you want, for them to change how the game works every week? OF COURSE there will be repetition, repetition is INEVITABLE

Seriously, from the old WoW days killing mobs in a certain area over and over and over again for mats, was considered grinding, today? Apparently everything you do is grinding. Jesus

Well, as it’s an mmo and people expect to play it for thousands hours, some repetition is justifiable.
What I don’t like is the reason for that repetitivity: if it’s just for skins, or other cosmetic, it’s ok.
when it’s required to do something in order to unlock something else, it’s bad.
Legendaries is ok to grind, because it’s mostly about skin. Agony resistance or masteries is less ok, because prevent me from doing a part of the game.
Especially if you consider that you have to craft ascended and you cannot earn it by drop or gold, as it’s very inefficient.

however, it’s also a matter of how much repetition is required: if it’s a pleasant, short one is welcome. If it’s long, boring, brainless and mandatory…it becomes a grind.

Enough time to close a raid or not, I think it’s better to have choice and decide on the spot if he wants to keep logged a few additional hours a week , instead of being forced to skip raids because of no required/sufficient/peoplewillkickhimfromparty ascended or masteries…and being forced to waste that hours or much more on grinding mats/gold to be properly geared for months.

And again, you’ll answer that casuals shouldn’t desire to do raids because they don’t “deserve” it…he/me/anybody else will say that they want to because at the beginning they expected so…up to a treadmill of arguments.

well, the issue is still here, because gw2 tried to make very different audiences play the same stuff (well, it was just apparently: as in fact they tried to split them in pro-raiders-fractals and casuals-unskilled zerg and farm open world events. exactly what i don’t like), but in fact they have totally opposite desires.
Well, it CAN’T work. you cannot sell a game as one" for everybody" “different than other mmos as it doesn’t drain your time”, then start to lock FOTM with AR, raids with masteries and ascend…and legendaries with raids and ..and expect nobody to leave the game/whine.
I’m the "casual/unskilled extremist ", that one of “don’t want to wait a second to enter endgame, at all”…except the necessary time to learn how to do it (and then being kicked in the teeth by champion mobs, but it is alright, i wouldn’t whine about my missing skill. what I hate is numbers, stats, determinism, being bound to lose because i’ve not grinded enough. i just want to play, try, explore. not grind ..and then, but only then, lose because of my lack of experience as a player.)..not “working” towards it" .

There is no solution, except than choose one of the two “extremes” and follow it.
they knew it, of course they had to do a choice…and they did it. they considered the old population they sold the game to at the beginning…as expendable.
In fact I won’t buy HoT, as they expceted to happen but tried to sell the espansion the same. nice try..
But if you look at the expansion, to me it’s evident that even thinking of create a raid, the true core of pro-gaming tradition, it’s a new manifesto and underlines very well what audience they want to satisfy.

I understand, it’s how things go. people change. games change. i’m sure that many will enjoy it…but not me.
good luck and have fun!