Guild Wars 2

holy god not
this is madness!

they shall not pass…ehm no, shall not have a single $

Raf.1078:

If you aren’t having fun, go play or do something else.

every time the same words.

my opinion: no. for now, it’s more disappointment for recent changes than fun. so yes…no gw2 on my ssd until a miracle occurs.

don t know a kitten about economy.
i won t even try to talk about it but…my 2 cents
i think that it s not a handful of complainers.
of the 15friends i bought gw2 with, i m the only one who logged in until the second half of 2013, and the only who’s here wasting his time with complaints. yes, it s a very limited experience.
but just because someone just ragequitted without whining here, doesn t mean that complainers are a little part of the whole gw2 owners

VOLKON.1290:

There’s one thing GW2 doesn’t and probably never will need is a level cap increase. It simply doesn’t make sense to do so.

i think that soon there’ll be bad news for you
but for now, it’s just an opinion.

BeoErgon.9107:

During the CDI for vertical progression I asked many and many times for that question: will level cap increase?
Never got an answer.
I said each time that without that information, all the CDI on vertical progression was void and null. It’s an essential information to talk about progression and they never ever dared to answer.
Real great ideas in the vertical progression thread… but they are all void if they increase the level cap (which has been said elsewhere that they will do).
It is what baffles me about the CDI. It is supposed to be a conversation but they answered none of the questions players made. A conversation is supposed to be both ways.
I suppose that they had strict instructions not to talk about was going to be done, but anyways. Talking about vertical progression without that key information is useless.

of course they are forced not to talk about the future of the game…
it could be the end of gw2
also, it would be so much hype for nothing, as we already learnt from the manifesto “case report”, so anything they could state would not be so trustworthy

about ascended. yes, it’s unlikely you’ll throw them away very soon.
but I think that it won’t be the last tier. and of course not the last and definitive BiS.
they’ve already taken that path months ago.

1 – social. meeting other people, talk and coop in quests and events and dungeons. idem the forum.

2 – explore, plot, setting: feel part of world portrayed

3 – feel free and on a par with other players, without any “need” to log to do daily money, tokens, karma (because if i wear a worse gear i am behind the others and ruins my gaming experience)

4…until i decide a good skin or miniature to make my avatar look better. and then work for it. even long hours. but in total freedom

VOLKON.1290:

They addressed a need some people have and did so brilliantly.

well, did so brilliant that people who asked for a treadmill feel that ascended are too much grind for nothing, and people who asked for horizontaly-only progression feel betrayed because of a new BiS.
yeah. really a brilliant move

Magnus Steelgrave.6580:

yep people are gonna cry about it and anet isn’t going to do anything about it. And you know why? Because the petulant people throwing a fit over ascended armor, once removed, in about 30 seconds will start crying over something else… so what’s the point in fixing something if all the complainers are going to do is find something else to complain about?

i don’t think so.
the ascended/gear progression/ grind is not just “something else to complain about”.
it’s the main gold and time-sink in mmos. (as before someone gently said)
one of the main features anet advertised in the past. (ops, they advertised there wouldn’t be that)
and the main hot “complaint” topic in the forum.

yours is just another try to ridiculize others’ opinion to silence anything that could affect the game you already like.
a childish way though.

i think you shouldn’t worry about it.
the reason anet won’t “fix” gw2 is money, and people who love to grind, and a lot of other reasons they obviously look from making us aware of. (money)

Sarrs.4831:

Wild and crazy theory incoming: maybe people say that it gives people an advantage because it gives people an advantage. It’s right there in the tooltip, it has bigger numbers than Exotic gear. While second-guessing people’s motives is fun, I think you might be setting yourself up a little by second-guessing people’s motives when they’re using basic arithmetic.

+1.
demonstrating or not that this stat increase make the difference…is not crucial.
it’s just an opinion if it’s mandatory or not.or if it’s substantial or not.
what matters for ppl is that this difference in stats exist.

Keiel.7489:

People will continue to complain regardless. Doesn’t matter if they know others to be greatly successful with only exotics to their name. Best way is to follow what Anet stance on this, stay silent and let them cry about Anet not responding to their cries. In reality no matter your reasoning, it just comes down to what they don’t want to do.

and yes again.
i’m sure that anet won’t ever stop gear progression because of our cry.
it would only happen because of decrease of server population.
(that is what we’re hoping in)

An Siorai Tharian.4516:

Kevan.8912:

still, maths is the same. and say there s a difference.

Okay. That’s it. Why does everyone I see on the Internet use the term Maths when referring to Mathematics… instead of the singular term Math? Why does Math need to be plural all the time? It is darned frustrating! Even Math Teachers are confused by it.

my fault. as in sign, problems with grammar
still, the meaning of the post is obvious.

Name in use already.7294:

Ascended gear is NOT stat progression, the stat change is neglidgable. It exists to give the ILLUSION of stat progression. ANET had a dilemma, on 1 hand they had promised a non grindy game, on the other hand a large portion of their playerbase WANTED a long term grind for gear. What they did was actually very clever, they added a new tier of gear to satisfy the demand, but made the improvement so minimal that unless 2 identical classes using identical builds dodging identical attacks fought, it would not be better than ascended.

Tl;dr The only vertical progression on ascended gear is the infusion slots, look at the stats and see for yourself.

the problem is not why anet did it.
the problem is they did it.
and definitely yes…we don t want to do anything to get ascended

if the stats progression is negligible, it s your opinion. and respect it.
still, maths is the same. and say there s a difference.

people want ascended right now because they bought this game on the purpose of having thst BiS soon after 80. (comparing to “grindy games” anet doesnt do)
and because they didn t even know of their existence at that moment.

yeah. only ascended gear can be infused. and the most likely the progression will be in infusions.

hall of monuments is totally different. i feel a bit disappointed at it, since i never tried gw1.
but as there wasnt even the slightest improvement in stats, except for titles and skins, it’s just a locked cosmetic content.

ascended? totally different
even 1point in any gear stat, is a progression, and strongly recommended.
if you care or not about that progression, or if for now it isn t so evident in combat except for fotm, is a personal decision.
but still what i wear on my chars isn t BiS, the fundamental “target” of any mmo player. a target supposed to be acquired few hours after hitting 80 when bought the game

Thedenofsin.7340:

Kevan.8912:

@tobias: never intended to insult nobody here. and..“seriously” i can’t find a single line where i insulted anybody. maybe rude or gruff is a proper definition. sorry if you felt insulted by anything.
really really hope that what we write has an influence on the sancta sanctorum, but reason says there is no way of changing the way things go. it’s just a time for bitterness.

TooBz.3065:

Vayne,

There was something in between exotics and legendaries.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Forge/Equipment

People just weren’t satisfied with purely cosmetic progression.

i loved that skins T.T i worked for it. really enjoyed it. because it was a “free choice”.
the feeling that doing it or just ignoring that event/skin/etc doesn’t give any little impact on combat.

Thedenofsin.7340:

If you want to get that really cool skin, or be the best in Fractals or dominate WvW, then you’re going to have to grind for it. However, that’s not what the manifesto is saying. The manifesto is saying that you don’t have to grind to have fun; you don’t have to grind to experience any of the game content……..

However, that is palpably different than content that is simply unavailable to you unless you grind.

true…part of it.
still, the “dominate WvW or be best in fractals” part is, for me and many others, a “game content”.

The problem isn’t in the manifesto then – the problem is that you have misinterpreted it.
The manifesto is referring playing WvW and running Fractals, not being the #1 in Gold Leage WvW or running level 50 Fractals.

the problem is that is not only me who misunderstood the manifesto.
we’re a relevant number.

though…let’s ignore for a moment the manifesto.
it a waste of time arguing on it. no way out. no real discussion.
do you feel satisfied about ascend. and also asked for it? good for you
do you feel neutral about, no difference? good for you

do us feel angry about them?
this is the main theme of this and many other threads.
that’s our crusade. a hopeless one, as 99,9% anet has already taken the path of the infusion treadmill….or even worse.

don’t care if it was a good interpretation or not. the fact that many bought the game for a misinterpretation (if we assume there is, and is not false advertisement) relies also on bad communication on their part.

at this moment, manifesto or not, many feel unsatisfied.
because wanted everything and soon. BiS in a few hours. no new BiS at all.
it’s against any mmo rule? who cares.
we’ll keep asking for it!
as before of us someone did for ascended.

till that moment, if there will ever be, the solution is to put time and money in better investments than gw2.
hope it will change one day

@tobias: never intended to insult nobody here. and..“seriously” i can’t find a single line where i insulted anybody. maybe rude or gruff is a proper definition. sorry if you felt insulted by anything.
really really hope that what we write has an influence on the sancta sanctorum, but reason says there is no way of changing the way things go. it’s just a time for bitterness.

TooBz.3065:

Vayne,

There was something in between exotics and legendaries.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mystic_Forge/Equipment

People just weren’t satisfied with purely cosmetic progression.

i loved that skins T.T i worked for it. really enjoyed it. because it was a “free choice”.
the feeling that doing it or just ignoring that event/skin/etc doesn’t give any little impact on combat.

Thedenofsin.7340:

If you want to get that really cool skin, or be the best in Fractals or dominate WvW, then you’re going to have to grind for it. However, that’s not what the manifesto is saying. The manifesto is saying that you don’t have to grind to have fun; you don’t have to grind to experience any of the game content……..

However, that is palpably different than content that is simply unavailable to you unless you grind.

true…part of it.
still, the “dominate WvW or be best in fractals” part is, for me and many others, a “game content”.

“communication”…well.
if i knew it, i would never have bought this game.
and i think many others with me.

i think that anet generated what you name a “bad communication” on a purpose.
they sold it on that advertisement.
or it’s just n00b’s (including me) fault to misunderstand it?
in the end, the result is the same: many casual gamers will leave the game.
for us…it’s too late.
we already spent that money. but they won’t see other.
however, still wait for any change of direction.
but it’s a fool’s hope.

OT: and…there is no hatred left in my words.
only sadness. what a pity. i really used to love it as it was in the very beginning.

+1 graphics are a piece of art.
really dreamy…

well…i think it didn’t intend to be the middle ground
but just a better investment (than actual just cosmetic legrndaries) for money/time/grind, with an incentive in stats for who needs it.

this post is indeed a provocation, without any real possibility of discussion.

am i the only one to think that my post didn’t infringe any forum rules? (and got locked).

about exotics easy or not: i’m sure anet knew that they were readily available at level 80. they wanted them to be like that.
and after a while, they changed their minds as knew that ascended would be so much grind.
it’s not incidental.

Silvercyclone.1462:

I have 6 lvl 80 and have not grinded once. I can see you are the kind of person who likes to be handed things with the least ammount of work possible. The game would have died its 2nd week if everyone was handed the best gear. I am personally glad you uninstalled the game because its people like you who do not see the positive parts of a game that make it bad for everyone else.

it’s already a lot of work in real life.
don’t need to get another work in my spare time, to get what i want.

yes, i prefer the easy way to get the best gear.
i wanted to enjoy gw2 just to obtain everything easy.
enjoy what the game has become, if you like it.
still, think and do and play what you like.
nobody’s hurting you.
i can say the same that people as you are making MY game worse.
it’s a matter of opinion.

and don’t judge who disagrees with you.

peace and love bro

Vol.7601:

“i wanted a game without grinding AT ALL”

Then mmos are not for you. There is no such thing as a lack of grinding in an MMO. Your fault for actually believing the manifesto.

i don’t asked if it’s anet’s or my fault.
i just said i don’t like it, and why.
stop moralizing.

i just expressed my opinion. respect the others’ opinions.
and wanted to know if there is any other like me who hates this same things i hate in the recent evolution of gw2.

you’re off topic.

uhm. no it’s not duplicate i think.
as i didn’t mention the main theme of the other existing threads, which were manifesto’s adherence and excess of grind.
i just ask people who no longer play gw2, why they did it and if it was for the same reasons i feel.

i just expressed my feeling about it, and address directly to those who think the same about.

so…as someone like to underline that “manifesto” is no longer valid or etc etc etc (no talking about it here plz)

just about facts.
i think, as in the title, that the direction the game is evolving in is no longer what i’ve bought the game for.
i wanted a game without grinding AT ALL. and BiS to be acquired in a short time after lvl 80, and then just think about having fun.
(oh, it reminds me of something, but it’s difficult to understand what.)

is there some of you who wanted gw2 for these same reasons?
and now struggle to login again.
i uninstalled it for this reason.
i’d like to know about people who feel the same.

Nike.2631:

And yes, anyone can overcome that whole “forced” part by abandoning their goals… which is pretty much the exact moment any sane person moves on to a new game.

yes, it is the right solution.
i’ll take the advice. many will, actually.

chemiclord.3978:

Will that placate both sides of their player base?

i think that on one hand, casuals feel betrayed by the “misinterpreted manifesto” (as many of you think), and on the other, real pro-core-nolife players feel that it’s too much grind for a “non mandatory” equipment (not according mho).
both of them seem to be unsatisfied.

all this posts mean that a lot of people still love this game.
but don’t know what % will play in a few months. but i fear not so much.
i hope not so much. because only a massive desertion may rise anet attention.
of course not our little flame wars on the forum, ignored by mods and devs.

Wasbunny.6531:

Being “forced by a psychological desire” is closer to the definition of mental illness than it is to ‘grind’.

im’m sure this is far closer to a “mental illness”:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_addiction
http://www.dsm5.org/Documents/Internet%20Gaming%20Disorder%20Fact%20Sheet.pdf

spending the hours required for getting all the mats and gold required to fully equip one or more characters in little time (maybe i’m wrong, but threshold was about 24hrs a week) probably is a major criterion to diagnose it.
one criterion is not enough to diagnose it though, but it’s one of many.

@Tobias.
BiS = need it. no escape from it.
if ascended doesn’t count at all, why to introduce it?
stats are relevant also outside the fractals.
so, please, if you don’t feel that you need to use them, fine.
but don’t try to teach ppl how to feel about it.
its purpose is to be a need and the way to convince ppl to grind for them is exactly that increase of stats you consider subtle.
it is demonstrated by the fact that only cosmetic upgrade ( if we trust all supporters’ words) would not be enough for making people login, spend time and money on them.
only a gear stats progression could do it.
so, how can it be important only for those who are supposed to care about it (and asked for it), and be unnecessary for those who don’t like them (and are now flaming against it)?

choose one faction.
ascended are worthless, or ascended are worth.
or: just admit that it depends on one’s needs, and so it’s a waste of time, and incoherent, trying to convince ppl who hate them to ignore their existence

i think it’s quite obvious.

Vayne.8563:

You’re doing what I’m accusing others of doing to the manifesto…taking one bit of what I said while ignoring the context. The context here is simple.
I think people have misintepreted the manifesto, by taking stuff out of context. They take one line, they ignore the previous and following line and then have the audacity to say that Anet advertised the game falsely.

manifesto is there, where anyone can read it.
can you provide this “previous and following line” ppl ignore?
without any personal inferring. just the text.
where anet corrects the previous advertisement, so that everybody can understand the real hidden meaning of it.
as you say, this infos should be aged some months BEFORE the launch.

i think it unlikely that so many of us misunderstood it.
IMHO we understood it right. it’s anet that decided just to ignore it.

i think that the most elegant solution to this post would be:
“hi. i’m a dev. we used to think what you read on this kitten manifesto, but after some months from the launch we’ve changed our minds. this is our new line of conduct. grind is good. progression is good. we apologize for it but we think it’s better for us and the game because all we previously said is fail.” period

obviously, it will never happen.

Majic.4801:

Manifest Destiny

The Manifesto is alive and well and lives on in our hearts — and, I sincerely believe, in the hearts of most ArenaNet employees. I don’t think anyone in the video was lying, nor have I ever seen any evidence that anyone at ArenaNet even remotely resembles the “monsters from the id” too many players accuse them of being.

Like any creed, opinions on how the Manifesto should be interpreted, how it should be applied, how strictly it should be applied or when it should not be applied will vary, and disagreement naturally ensues. That is just as true within ArenaNet as it is in these forums, so any pretense of a One True Interpretation of the Manifesto is no more credible than any other claims of inspired revelation.

As eloquent as the Manifesto may be, it’s not perfect and never was. It’s probably not possible to actually publish a game which would conform to the Manifesto perfectly, and even if that somehow happened, players would nonetheless argue over whether it actually did, because opinions inevitably vary.

Rather, I think it is best to consider the Manifesto a statement of principles and ideals to draw upon and work toward, recognize that not everyone will agree on the best way to do that, and endeavor as a community to help shape the extraordinary vision ArenaNet has laid out for us.

Granted, that’s not always easy, we naturally tend to get emotional about things we care about, and I could certainly stand to better practice what I preach, myself.

But as long as we keep our eyes on the prize, (politely) hold ArenaNet to that vision and respect the fact that our fellow players can disagree (without necessarily being wrong), we won’t lose sight of what we care about most.

And that’s a goal worthy of us all.

+1

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Lots of people here are deluding themselves into thinking that “Ascended will be it — the last bit of stuff to grind and then we’ll start getting quality content.” But there’s no way that’s true. As I said, infusion slot stat grind will almost certainly come next.

That’s not what my “delusion” is. My “delusion” is they understand exactly how badly they pushed things with Ascended and aren’t in a rush to do any further pushing.

But “never” is a long time, and “will come eventually” is almost a sucker’s bet against. All of eternity is a long time for things to not change, and all it takes is one step telegraphed any number of months/years in the future to get “SEE WE WERE RIGHT! GEAR TREADMILL!” to be plastered everywhere.

So really? I think my attitude is best for this. If it’s not fun, avoid it. Nobody is going to CARE if you don’t play anymore or why . . . especially if you think ANet is out to get you or betray your trust. I mean, if you assume that, why do you care if they know your opinions?

why do i care if they know my opinions?
i want anet and other players to know my opinion. period.
isnt it a good reason for writing on a game’s forum?
i think you are writing to make others know your opinion. it’s the first purpose of communication.

“Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned. Nor hell a fury like a gamer scorned.”

definitely yes. many of us loved gw2. waited years for it.
it’s hatred and scorn. not only against anet, but also against people who try to silence you or to prove your feelings wrong.
don’t care if anet ignores our opinions. don’t care if it’s probabily a waste of time because nothing will change.
“don’t like it? don’t play it” is redundant. already done.
the same for all of you: like the game? keep playing without trying to convince the others that you like it.

this post has become pure semantics
with someone trying to justify anet decisions at any cost….others just getting angry about ascended…

as anet introduced it, and made it so hard to acquire, it’s obvious that an advantage had to exist. if not, why bother to create it and not only skins?
some say that it’s not worth grinding so many hours for a little gain.
but still there’s a progress. period.

it’s a waste of time convincing fanboys about it.
they’ll go on and on saying “not mandatory”. “don’t make difference” “only for fractals”
we’re speaking different languages.

manifesto is dead. and anet will do anything will find economically convenient.
the well-known grind and well-known gear progression (because some purists could argue about the meaning of treadmill. the idea behind is the same.)

if don’t like that, the only solution is…another game. maybe not mmo.

but:
to Anet: please change manifesto, or create a new one. and apologize for it.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Sic transit gloria mundi, I guess.

still don’t understand if you like this grind or not.

and it’s always us, the same people, to post and reply on the forum.
maybe all the others are ok with the game…or already quitted ;D

Kevan.8912:

….but anet is still trying to keep a foot in both camps.

i think they will finally lose at least one of the camps xD
at least one, because while for casuals it’s too much grind, for pros it’s too much grind for nothing so useful.
atm, gw2….is king of nothing.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Kevan.8912:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Kevan.8912:

+1
i think that if anet does really want to be different in the mmo market should rely on these 2 themes:
roleplaying (more players’ involvement in world events, not just an infinite chain of grind. making the player count in tyria. housing, ambient changes) and customization. (more skills, more weapons, more skins, mounts, etc)
but seems it’s already too late.
the usual farming-grinding is here

Never too late until the servers shut down.

Although I don’t expect some of your “roleplaying” list of improvements – notably “housing” – to make it. The last game I played which actually had housing matter also had serious problems with limited space.

Though the “customization” list seems to be in their minds, given how they tried to put in healing skills. Weapon and armor skins . . . really hope we get more, and almost a given we will.

Mounts? Probably staying right out and won’t be showing up. I honestly don’t know why people keep asking for them.

well, It’s all down to personal taste. i’d love mounts.

and, obviously…
if, and only if, ascended is really the last tier….and the last BiS…and if anet creates more interesting (and viable) ways to craft them, could be interesting to come back into the game.
xD

Don’t think they will revamp the crafting methods, and I think Ascended is the best we will see for now. Unless the next set of areas permanently added to the game are incredibly more difficult, I expect we won’t see anything at all.

If they do “Legendary Armor” it’ll probably be through existing armor being back-worked into “Precursors”. I’d suspect using the named exotic pieces would be that, and the method requiring things crafted at skill 450+ along with some other “Gift” item to transform them. It’ll have the same stats as Ascended but be flexibly able to be changed, as per the weapons.

And the gods willing, it won’t be ugly.

Dont’ forget infusion slots. There is an opportunity for Anet to insert grind there by raising the max possible stats for each infusion slot — and they’ll likely do it.

As for Ascended armor precursors, it won’t be the existing named armors:

1. People who just have them in their inventory get a huge advantage. People will be upset.
2. A lot of those are floating around. Not grindy enough. The whole point of Legendary gear is to make you grind so you stay with the game longer.

preventively, i won’t log again until anet defines its new targets and modus operandi.
i started playing because of manifesto. continued to play because i hoped they would still keep their word.
for now, nothing ensures me they will. no more trust. only facts.

let’s wait and see. more grind? more infusions instead of (or) new armours (that’s the same: new BiS and grind again)? casual players like me will easily find another game.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Kevan.8912:

+1
i think that if anet does really want to be different in the mmo market should rely on these 2 themes:
roleplaying (more players’ involvement in world events, not just an infinite chain of grind. making the player count in tyria. housing, ambient changes) and customization. (more skills, more weapons, more skins, mounts, etc)
but seems it’s already too late.
the usual farming-grinding is here

Never too late until the servers shut down.

Although I don’t expect some of your “roleplaying” list of improvements – notably “housing” – to make it. The last game I played which actually had housing matter also had serious problems with limited space.

Though the “customization” list seems to be in their minds, given how they tried to put in healing skills. Weapon and armor skins . . . really hope we get more, and almost a given we will.

Mounts? Probably staying right out and won’t be showing up. I honestly don’t know why people keep asking for them.

well, It’s all down to personal taste. i’d love mounts.

and, obviously…
if, and only if, ascended is really the last tier….and the last BiS…and if anet creates more interesting (and viable) ways to craft them, could be interesting to come back into the game.
xD

ArchonWing.9480:

Lindbur.2537:

fishball.7204:

Prower

I share pretty much the same feelings as you do haha. The only reason I really play now is because of my guild/friends.

This. It’s always the people that keep me going – without a bunch of friends and a guild to spam to, I probably would have quit this game before completing my Sunrise. It’s my friends that motivate me and keep me going in between new content patches, and they’ve done so sufficiently for me to begin working for Eternity.

Trust me, after over 3000 hours you’re sure to tire of the content and begin playing to chat more than to be productive.

Guilds sure do help. I admit, I may not be around if it weren’t which is why I understand those that can’t find a good guild to have an inferior playing experience.

But I’d like to put something in perspective. I know 3000 hours is an arbitrary number but…

It’s been 498 days since Gw2 came out. 3000/498 = a little more than 6 hours. I’m not sure how one could possibly not exhaust an activity that has 25% of their entire existence devoted to.

I just don’t think it’s a problem that can be solved because at the rate of content consumption, the requirements would be massive and even if people who played more than this had those needs satisfied, then a lot of the more casual gamers would feel left behind.

The only hope is in user created content, like pvp and wvw. But for those that aren’t into that, the only chance is to add things to enhance the player’s ability to express creativity. More skins, colors, and some form of roleplay. (Like housing; my heroes have earned so much slaying evil, and they’re still homeless beyond that lame instance? I should be able to buy another house!) And confining any intresting look to the gem store is not adequate. And even considering them, it’s really so little variety. Why does Medium armor have only a handful of non-trenchcoats?

So basically, the focus needs to change. No more of this 2 week release thing. It just doesn’t work and only fulfills a temporary need to grind. True horizontal progression >> Shallow Vertical Progression.

+1
i think that if anet does really want to be different in the mmo market should rely on these 2 themes:
roleplaying (more players’ involvement in world events, not just an infinite chain of grind. making the player count in tyria. housing, ambient changes) and customization. (more skills, more weapons, more skins, mounts, etc)
but seems it’s already too late.
the usual farming-grinding is here

VOLKON.1290:

….and your old BIS armor simply isn’t capable of getting the job done now.

it’s a treadmill also if your old armor is sufficient, but not the BiS…especially if you got it after hundred hours of farming/grinding…and if it happens more times than once.
still think that this is not a treadmill right now?
ok, it’s just 2nd step.
let’s wait for the next tier…just a matter of time.
we do know there will be a new cap level, and of course more new equipment.
this is the path this game is going to walk.
right interpretation or not, manifesto or not.

the important thing for us, just “casuals”, is the knowledge of it.
there will be gear progression again? yes or not.
but anet is still trying to keep a foot in both camps.
they won’t reveal nothing until patch/expansion/etc is already up.

lordkrall.7241:

But if people only listen to a single video and then ignore all those articles and stuff clarifying things during the YEARS between Manifesto release and game release it IS the players fault.

i didn’t find any other article about gw2 designing guidelines.

and…i think that a direct anet post in the thread or an official new thread could be very interesting.
as “manifesto is not valid because it’s too old”, i’d like to know what they think.
not their explicits projects. just what they think NOW about grind and so on.
i’m afraid i already know what they want to do…and i’m afraid also they won’t say a single word about it, before it’s too late for player to oppose.

Behellagh.1468:

mergi.1407:

An accountant, a game dev and a manifesto are shipwrecked on an island.

The manifesto goes “GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill;”

The accountant coughs and at the same time mumbles under his breath “Gem Shop!”

The game dev points to a ship on the horizon and say “Look! We are saved here comes the Titanic!”

Gem Shop isn’t a “trap”, it’s an income model. There was a time when nearly all MMOs were monthly subscriptions. So if not subscription or cash shop what do you suggest? Tip jar?

everyone agrees that a mmo game, as provides new content and servers up, needs money.
ok with pets, minis, powerups, skins and other funny stuff. there’s no real impact on the gameplay.
however, earning because the game frustrates the casual player, forcing them to buy gold and slots, is despicable.

about manifesto: i’m sure it’s online ALSO because it’s still valid.
simply, anet preferred to “ignore” it because of money. that’s economy

and many players are going to “ignore” gw2 because it’s no longer what they wanted to play to. that’s economy as well.
The customer is king.

Vayne.8563:

If you look at the number of times in the “advertising” words like vertical progression were mentioned, you’d find that the game was advertised on dynamic events, personal story, and active combat.

The other stuff was side bar stuff that if it was important to an individual they focused on it to the exclusion of all else. But it wasn’t what the game was advertised on.

side stuff? no grind and no vertical progression?
uhm. https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto/
to me, it seems a main feature they advertised.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/ArenaNet's_MMO_Manifesto_trailer

totally disagree with you Vayne.
it’s not players fault to stick to anet’s word.
it’s anet’s, as they revealed unreliable.

Lynne.8416:

The manifesto was released in like 2010 right? The game wasn’t even released until 2012. The game went through changes between beta and release, and the game has made significant changes since release. Therefore, the manifesto is no longer applicable to the game. The manifesto was their intention for the game in 2010. We are now in 2014 and I expect more changes to come. 2 years from now the game could be totally different from today’s version.

mmmmh, no.
alpha/beta changes…is more about technical issues of a game, servers, or new maps, or little (not that little, but not substantial) changes, like timers cooldowns interface AI etc

manifesto is more than it: it’s the “philosophy” behind a game. it’s also about the players’ subpopulation it is advertised for.
it a “hey, we don’t know exactly how many races there will be, or if asura will be uglier than now, but be sure we have these ideas in mind. if you think the same way, follow us”
in fact, they didn’t talk of “concrete” features of the game.
it’s the “guidelines” that are before programming.

so, this is why the "betrayal " they committed is so solemn.
it’s not just a number in a new item. or just a few more hours of game.
it’s both the introduction of heavy grind and gear progression in the same time.
and for me and many others, these (absence of) 2ideals were the only (or nearly it) reasons to buy it instead of a bunch of other mmos.
they did their initial sells just because they guaranteed no grind and no treadmill.

so, there is no excuse. at all

azizul.8469:

ascended was designed to keep the fractal grinding players busy, and to cover up anet’s mistake in estimating how quick players can get their hands on the exotics….

ascended was designed when anet realized that could earn more money make some people login long hours grinding, as ingame time increases probability of selling gems and stuff.
carrot of the very long stick just as any other mmo, instead of creating contents.

and, as the casual audience they aimed before (the manifesto is online) was too little, they also tried to extend gamers’ population to standard mmo grinders from wow or others.

however, i think they should discuss about the fact that now:
altough they made some people play more hours, on the other hand gw2 has lost its specific initial advantage over other mmo: casual friendly.
casuals like me will leave, and it’s likely that also pro-grinders now or soon will understand that, if you want to grind and get good rewards, there are better games on the market.

the risk is that to make more money from different kinds of players, all of them feel unsatisfied of it.

lordkrall.7241:

mesme.5028:

I guess infusion was only a matter of time, as the game opens up and we get closer to the ring of fire and perhaps the Mursaat, peeps who are not infused with ar wont be able to do that content even if its dynamic events, it’s not so much ascended i dislike more the way we obtain it by tedious and expensive time gated crafting, i don’t want or need better stats as such (Thou i need ar for high lvl fracts), we may find in time all will need infusions with agony resist, when and if this happens it may not be a choice as such for peeps to leave, just the last straw.

It is extremely unlikely that we will ever be forced to get AR for open-world encounters.

but it’s very likely there will be infusion progression, and instanced necessity for BiS items and AR.
and it’s enough for some more people to leave, especially if don’t already like ascended at this moment.

edit: and especially for ones who initially bought the game because anet made them think there wouldn’t be nothing like that

gear progression is easier than creating innovative new content, obviously.
both for devs and for players.
grinding for it is still the easy way to keep people logged in and busy…and earn money from gems and other stuff.

yes. both are progression. but guessing which one is better is not difficult.
as players, i think we should ask for the best anet can deliver, not just obey to their economic decisions.
because it’s our time and our money.

@tobias: ehm, again other games….
our perception of grind and gear progression (and if it happens, treadmill) still remains.
i hope anet got the message, if some of the people here didn’t catch it.
there is no real discussion.
some of you are okay with game atm. the ones flaming against ascend are not.
:)
all of us explained why.

now it’s anets duty to decide which part of players will leave gw2.

and that magic moment when you try to dodge but a macro-lag puts you a meter backwards…

uhm…progression….
for many players just mean a shining new tier of equipment with 2more zeros to stats every 6month…and of course a long long grindy way to obtain it.

that’s what people here are trying to make anet aware: many don’t like it xD

hate: look at 1thousand posts before yours
like: everything until fractals.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Kevan.8912:

vincecontix.1264:

Belenwyn.8674:

The infusions are the risk we cannot judge at the moment. Will Arenanet continue the vertical progression via infusions? What will be the “high level” infusions that were mentioned by Linsay Murdock in the blog post dealing fractals and ascended items?

If we see a vertical progression via infusions beyond AR then ascended items will be highly demanded for several aspects of the game.

We will cross that bridge when we come to it.

it s just the beginning of the treadmill.
and i think everyone of us knows it

You can’t know it, because it hasn’t happened yet. You merely fear it is so, and what’s more if it never happens it won’t be because they didn’t intend for it. It’ll be because “we complained so much they decided to reverse course”.

i really hope that anet still cares of its customers
of “all kinds of customers”, especially that casual kind their efforts seemed to be aimed to.
until then…

vincecontix.1264:

Belenwyn.8674:

The infusions are the risk we cannot judge at the moment. Will Arenanet continue the vertical progression via infusions? What will be the “high level” infusions that were mentioned by Linsay Murdock in the blog post dealing fractals and ascended items?

If we see a vertical progression via infusions beyond AR then ascended items will be highly demanded for several aspects of the game.

We will cross that bridge when we come to it.

it s just the beginning of the treadmill.
and i think everyone of us knows it

for grind, i thint it means doing repetitive tasks again and again and again to achieve a goal.
so the fact you had fan is obviously a good thing, still it’s grind!

however, although these events could be a little more interesting, don’t find them that bad.
on the other hand, anet didn’t keep its word so good
there nothing new in gw2 if compared to standard mmo.

so, imho, they failed.

well….it’s should more sound like "ascended things are “Better is Slot”.
while everything else (whole game experience) gets worse xD

there s bunch of threads about why ascended are “evil”…

not much difference may be correct. no difference is incorrect.