Guild Wars 2

Fantastic, excellent initiative OP and friends. I love it when players create content like this.
And to those of you annoyed about this… You must have a stroke at the mere mention of Eve Online. I personally am too lazy to farm gold, but some people find becoming a tycoon incredible fun (I can see the appeal), and being able to hire mercs to work for you is also winning at a game.

Tried the ‘lite’ version of this build last night on my tiny level 32 elementalist, absolutely thundered through a couple levels of widescale devastation.
This build, even at low levels is a riot. Happened to have Power/healing gear, worked great.
Went with Heal Signet/Hammer/Arcane Power/Fire Signet/elemental summon for my 6-10. I found Arcane Power for the on demand crits realy nice. I like to play my elementalist aggressively and mobile, and used D/D whenever I couldn’t have a hammer out.
Oh, I was 4/10/0/10/0 by the end of the night. (10 in lightening and water, putting points into fire, in case I forgot the order of trait lines.) For most of my test I was grouped with a guildie necro dishing out vulnerability. Vulnerabilty on crits will help me be alot less dependant when I unlock the next teir of traits.

Sorry for format and spelling. Posted from my phone.

Numpad for movement.
8-forward
2-backward
4/6-rotate
7/9-strafe
0-JUMP
div-toggle walk
multiply-autorun
numplus-dodge

rest of the keyboard is for my left hand using skills with EveryThing hotkeyed. Right hand moves to mouse to do dialog, and ground targeting. If i am going to be using alot of ground targeting I take out my Nostromo for the left hand so I can move with thumbpad while moving left hand to the mouse.

Thanks for the posts folks, I definitely know there is gratification to performing with your class exceptionally. I’ve had the opportunity to experience that.

And it is nice to see how you guys have learned to really enjoy that and make the game from it.

I think for now I will have to take a couple folks advice and just not try to find a ‘one-stop-shop’ game for now and play something else concurrently with GW2, and just enjoy it for what it is, and hopefully either my tastes will change, or they will incorporate more of what I’m looking for in the future (unlikely, I know)!

Kaiwen.1520:

But these roles are not required. A massive DPS group can win. A more support oriented group can win. A mix can win. It all comes down to the talent of the individual players.

Yep! And that’s exactly what I found out I love, and miss. I like feeling like my class is indispensable to the task at hand. You explained it very well there, and went on to explain strong reasons for why there are plenty of Pros for the way this game is instead, great post.

Thanks for the tip about FFXIV (Holy cow, that many?) I stopped paying attention to them around VII, haha. Will check it out.

- edit

Oh, just as a note, you have jerks that polluted the experience in trinity games in any game you play, be it FPS, RTS, And even here, in a Trinity-free environment and they can still do damage.

zacharias.5437:

So, what I am asking is whether you would feel the same way if waypoints were not available in dungeons?

Excellent question.

Raising the stakes, and making a significant penalty for failure, like dungeon failure, might actually change things in my favor. Several things, probably – like running past trash whenever possible (pet peeve), and making players take a slower more methodical approach, possibly having more defined roles.

But I don’t think just removing way points by itself would make a significant difference, other than causing more groups to break apart if they met too much resistance and wiped.

Thz.7569:

…into a bit of a rant; …

No problem, and great post! Perfectly understandable, the subject material is on a tiny island with rantable material on all sides! Haha.

Also, kudos and +1 to you for a classy recovery! Well done, sir. I was worried this was just going to degenerate further.

To your point, that is probably alot of my issue, I didn’t transition into Guild Wars 2. I tinkered with GW1 probably for a total of like 10 hours, and never got into, or any grouping besides a couple friends that were trying to get me into it.

So I have gone from 100 typical MMOs, to Guild Wars2. I am encouraged that you understand where I’m coming from, and hopefully my tastes will evolve to appreciate what we have here.

I’ve only heard about CU, not looked into – will do that now!

Again, thanks for your input!

Leo G.4501:

I’m just hoping the devs see a need to make more variation in build options…and by options, not talking about damage since everyone can spec into damage and do well as it is. They could improve how healing power scales or vary the different things it can affect or add more traits aimed at support specs.

That’s a great point, it would make my day if the game were headed in that direction.

And as far as starting a trend, I’m working on it! ;)

Last night ran some dungeons with another guardian specced similarly to mine, it was fun stacking our abilities.

I really like your idea of changing the way healing scales, that and maybe making the way aggro works a little more aggressive, and making it a little more effective to keep aggression by stating for toughness would be a great way to incorporate some kind of tanking for someone who wants aggro.

Don’t even need to change enemy damage, but enabling someone to reliably hold agro, would allow others to further focus on DPS by avoiding toughness, which would make a stronger healing type position favorable for the game.

Mmm, great thought, Leo.

Good news Lucas! Most people that play games (studies have shown) don’t pay attention to internet stuff related to it. And learn via in game experience.

It’s the same thing I did, leveling up each class to unlock the traits window, and getting a taste for how they play before narrowing down the playing field and then further experimenting with some classes.

Thz.7569:

I just get kitten at things like this because people are too dense to figure kitten out and instead are quick to complain. If one likes to spend 80% of their time staring at health bars, then they shouldn’t be playing this game.

Actually, you’re missing the point. Does your team depend on you for that?

That’s the discussion here.

Furthermore, this game has intentionally been designed very simply. When you boil it down, your ‘too dense to figure it out’ is really just selecting 7 traits, reading the weapon skills, and then itemizing your gear to match. Calling someone too dense to do that is presumptuous and insulting.

And beside that, blatantly wrong, and a sidetrack from the conversation.

Go away, or partake of the discussion without insulting me and others.

-edit
Btw, I do still appreciate your recommendation to try tpvp, that was helpful. And I will look into it some more to see if it’s viable for me. I’ve only dabbled in the PvP of this particular game so far.

Nephitis.8201:

Kimeni.2509:

-edit for clarification:
That was from the following perspective, if your team mates depend on your less, or don’t depend on you at all, then you naturally have less responsibility. If your team is doomed when you fail, then you have greater responsibility.

I think you are mixing it up, it’s not that you have more responsibility in trinity MMOs, it’s just that the weight of your responsibility is bigger and more fatal to your team. Since your team need you to fulfill all 3 roles in GW2, you actually have more responsibility, but it’s just less detrimental if you fail at it.

In other games when I’m playing as tank, the only responsibility i have, is to taunt and keep aggro on me. People are not expecting more then this from me, same as healer, all I have to do is watch the health bar and keep it filled. I don’t call this more responsibility, but the one responsibility I have is just more detrimental to my team.

I appreciate your perspective, and can see that. For me, the weight of consequence determines the volume of the responsibility.

Actually, It just means you have nothing further to add to the conversation.

I am interested in others that have had similar feelings and what they have done to get something out of the game.
I’m am interested in others opinion.
I am interested in suggestions of other games that perhaps I just don’t know about.
I am interested in hearing from someone that’s a part of a group that has purposely built all their characters to have more classic teamplay.

The only thing I’m not really interested in is someone calling me dumb because I don’t enjoy games for the same reason they do.

Close minded? I guess.

Let’s keep it civil, please.

Thz.7569:

Kimeni.2509:

Red Falcon.8257:

Even though a Guardian can protect you it’s not as brain-dead as not having to deal with damage at all, you still have to dodge, heal and pop defensive CDs.

Right, and all those dodges, heals, and defensive cooldowns will protect you whether or not there is a Guardian in the group.

And… your comments about wanting to pass off responsibility and/or challenge are silly and unnecessary, I’ve explained already that is apart of what I’m MISSING in GW2, it has less responsibility – not more.

I’m not sure about where you’re coming form when mentioning individuals having less responsibility; .

That was simply a comment regarding Red Falcon’s statement. No need to call me feeble minded, I appreciate this this has remained friendly, and have enjoyed the conversation so far.

-edit for clarification:
That was from the following perspective, if your team mates depend on your less, or don’t depend on you at all, then you naturally have less responsibility. If your team is doomed when you fail, then you have greater responsibility.

I’ve already explained that I’ve learned that GW2 doesn’t offer what I love with detail in the first post. I accept that I can’t find it here, and I’m interested in hearing what it is that various people find rewarding about the dungeon experience in GW2, or if they felt the same way and then how they developed around it. Or if they still feel the same way, but have just decided to deal with it to enjoy an amazing game.

I can assure you, I’m not feeble minded, or deluded. It’s a game – a game that doesn’t offer the same sort of reward that traditional MMOs offer, but I didn’t realize how much I would miss until I didn’t have it here, and that’s why I’m talking about it.

Interestingly, the game Dungeons and Dragons Online has some parallels, almost every class can fill any role, or be built to solo any content, but team play is still encouraged because it’s facilitated by class abilities, and dungeon mechanics, mob mechanics and AI.

If only it wern’t being run into the ground by it’s developer.

Red Falcon.8257:

Even though a Guardian can protect you it’s not as brain-dead as not having to deal with damage at all, you still have to dodge, heal and pop defensive CDs.

Right, and all those dodges, heals, and defensive cooldowns will protect you whether or not there is a Guardian in the group.

And… your comments about wanting to pass off responsibility and/or challenge are silly and unnecessary, I’ve explained already that is apart of what I’m MISSING in GW2, it has less responsibility – not more.

Rising Dusk.2408:

You’d be surprised how easy it is to specialize, though!

I sense a trend! I purposely have not posted this until after I’ve learned and become well versed in the game. I’ve reserved any kind of decision or judgement until I had a chance to participate in all types of PvE, I’m familar and quite comfortable in my knowledge of what each class can bring to the table.

So, no, I won’t be/wasn’t/am not surprised. I’ve already experimented with several options with my guardian – and they’ve worked well, for what they are.

See, the group you’re talking about with the might stacks, and the healing that you provided… they still complete the content when you arn’t there. You increased their speed, or improved the margin of error, but you havn’t enabled them to do something they couldn’t without you (and your class). They could have done the dungeon by dropping you and picking up a Thief, or a Warrior, or… an afk Elementalist. because each class is self sufficient, and can handle everything, it just get’s easier the more people you stack together doing damage and not dying.

Maybe the answer is finding a new group of people to run with that are interested in creating our own teamplay.

Thanks for your help, Rising Dusk.

And thanks for the tip on Wildstar, I’ll keep an eye on it, though it doesn’t look like it’s up my alley.

Rising Dusk.2408:

It’s not so cut-and-dry as other MMOs, which is why you feel like you’re contributing less even though that’s not actually true. Your role is more diverse, and your contributions more varied. For me, that’s more satisfying than being a dedicated healer or dedicated tank.

Good point, and I’m glad that you love it!

You can do those things on any class, and therefore, anyone that is prepared and able to manage it that’s in your group can do it too. Which… is great, I suppose. I just don’t like feeling like a generalist rather than a specialist. Or not being critical to the task at hand, (selfish, I know :P)

Rising Dusk.2408:

I feel important every single time I do a run of anything because I know I am contributing significantly to my team and the team would fail without me…(cut)

Great post, thanks!

Most of those things you listed, are things everyone in the group can bring, no mater their class. Or at least that’s how I feel right now.

And your group probably won’t fail just because you’re not there, or doing what you do, unless they’ve designed their characters to rely on you. Which I mentioned earlier, artificial reliance that creates a minor simulacrum of dependency, but doesn’t have a corresponding increase in over all effectiveness.

I havn’t given up yet, and I’m still trying to find what I want.

@Thz

I was waffling on that. I havn’t competitively done PVP in any game for about 3 years now, perhaps that is where I should go.

Thanks for the tip.

I appreciate everyone’s input, at the very least, it makes me feel a little less like a cranky old curmudgeon that’s just stuck in my ways.

I’d want to make it perfectly clear, I am NOT disparaging Guild Wars 2, As I said, this game has so many things going for it, and I want to love it, and the fact that so many other mechanics and choices the developers made are so perfect is apart of what is making this realization so difficult for me, but it taught me something about myself I wasn’t aware of previously, that interclass dependency based teamwork is what makes an MMO for me.

I agree, I’ll probably have to move on to another game. I was already in the process of leveling a Mesmer, but I don’t think I’m going to find what I’m looking for.

Btw, I’m fairly skeptical of TESO’s ability to not flop (I’ll still try it later). Any other recommendations?

Beyondthelol.9504:

Honestly, you sound like quite a casual player so im asuming you havent look into meta builds, trait synergy, rune effects so much (no offence intended), but if you do you will see that there certainly are roles to be played

I sincerely appreciate your input, but I’m afraid you inferred incorrectly. I described my play style pretty well in my first post.

edit:
@Kozai

Thanks, I do see, and recognize that there is teamwork, and that bringing your abilities to bear can effect your teams efficiency, as I said, I’ve currently got a geared and pretty great setup Guardian.

The issue for me is, Guardian isn’t needed, Warrior isn’t needed, Mesmer isn’t needed, Elementalist isn’t needed, 5 engineers can walk into a dungeon and complete it as long as they all can roll when needed.

Sure, throwing in a guardian or an elementalist helps the group complete content faster or with a greater margin for error, but it doesn’t actually enable them to do something they couldn’t do before.

Nothing wrong with that, selling point of the game for many, just educational for me and what I enjoy about gaming. I guess I just like being a needed part of my team, and if I go down, then a critical part of my teams function goes down with me, and we’re going to fail.

In GW2, if I fail, or anyone else in my group, meh, oh well, we’ll revive if we can, or raise them after the fight if we can’t. Everyone will still be dodging, kiting, strafing, watching their own health, and DPSing the enemy as they can – And that’s all that’s needed.

In summary, No one is necessary. I personally don’t like that. Revelation to me.

@generalraccoon

Yeah, I am one that takes a studied approach to things. The main I ended up selecting was Guardian, for just that reason, I realized that I would be able to offer ample group support (relatively, for this game), and keep most enemies attention, freeing my group to do their thing in relative safety.

But I’m coming to the realization that it just doesn’t matter. I could go pure DPS, ignore everyone else, stay alive and attack the enemy, and we’d still win. Making me unnecessary.

There are times, like I said, where I do have a slight feeling of contribution, usually against trash, or something where my healing matters, and allows my team to focus on killing things and not running around kiting, and yada yada suchforth. But there is no real dependency on others. Which I understand is also one of the selling points for GW2, and something I was intrigued about, but now I see that I need it to really enjoy team play.

Shortly after my first terrible experience a month ago, I came to the conclusion I better join a guild, which I did, great folks. It helped a little, voice communication I think makes a bigger difference here than it does in most other MMOs, allowing you to coordinate. But again, and dependency you do have with a regular team is artificial, you have to create it, even then it’s partial, and doesn’t really enable you to do something you couldn’t before. (So far in my experience)

@Kumakichi

Actually, in GW2, you DON’T rely on your group members as much, which is what I explained above.

Also, I agree, Variety is a good thing – which is why the lack of class roles is so painful for me, we have less variety, instead we have several classes all geared and specced to be identical. They all take/avoid damage, they all self buff, self heal, and do damage.
That is less variety, not more.

Which by the way, isn’t a bad thing, I’ve just discovered it’s not my thing.
I just wish I knew of a modern, and fresh MMO that matched GW2’s polish.

So, I’ve been playing for a little over two months now I think. I come from a background of gaming, many years playing MMOs. And I don’t mean that to say that to qualify myself as great, just as able.

When I first started, I rolled up one of every class, played them all to about 15, read through traitlines, researched through the forums, and tried to get a feel for them. Out of all classes, I ended up leveling 3 into the 30s before settling on my first main.

About one month ago, I settled down on a long weekend I had off, and got ready to dive into my first dungeons. I was about 65 at that time. (Man, it’s easy leveling in this game). And, I will admit, my first experience with dungeons was pretty painful. Spent the better part of a day failing miserably in PuGs in AC. I managed to complete two paths in that day, out of several different groups, and many wipes.

It was a little daunting. But chalking it up to inexperience, and just the result of mostly new players, or impatient vets trying to force newbies into speed runs. Which I’m not new to, happens in all MMOs.

Anyways, I decided to post pone further dungeon diving until I hit 80, and got rares, and preferably exotics. I’ve done that, and have tried it again. Quite a bit less fail (more experienced PuGs I think and frankly, easier dungeons once past AC), but honestly, dungeon running left me wanting.

So, “Why?” I asked myself. I love so much of the game, so many things are right in GW2, the open world experience, the events, encounters, the dialog, crafting, even the micro-transaction store is well done, and that’s still a pet peeve of mine I still havn’t accepted in this modern era of gaming.

Anyways, the answer is, I love dungeon roles. It’s a necessary part of my gaming enjoyment.

I love being the tank, managing aggression, keeping everyone on me, prioritizing kill orders, using my class abilities to minimize my health loss, and keep everyone else safe. I like the satisfaction of standing at the middle of a pile of bodies, and everyone else in my party knowing I just did my job really well, and we’re moving on because I’m a competent tank.

I love being the healer, keeping everyone alive by having crunched numbers, properly utilized my resources, prioritized my healing targets, and cycled my class abilities right, so that at the end of an encounter, everyone else in my party knows that they are still standing and just defeated our enemy because I keep everyone up, and I’m a competent healer.

I love being DPS, min/maxing every facet of my gear and abilities/traits/talents to eek even the slightest increase from my output, managing my threat and making sure I am not pulling aggression, and making sure I am attacking the right enemies at the right time, so that at the end of the encounter, the healer still has mana, and I’m standing across a pile of dead bodies from the smiling tank because I killed things fast, making me a competent DPS.

I love being crowd control, forcing my self to focus intently in the thick of the action, to juggle and keep my team from getting swamped by adds, debuffing enemies, and throwing buffs out to my comrades, and most importantly breaking the fight up into bite sized chunks, so that at the end of the encounter, my tank knows that I was responsible for there always a manageable number of enemies on him at once, my healer knows that I was the reason that mean guy with a sword was suddenly sapped/deep sleeped/force lifted/blinded/charmed right before running him through.

I get only a slight bit, if any of that selfish and gratifying satisfaction playing Guild Wars 2. Instead, at the end of a fight, there is a breath, “Yay! We beat the boss… because… we all individually just managed to live by the skin of our teeth…”

I’m still here, because I’m determined to give the game a fair shake, and I’m also pretty desperately looking around for a new MMO home, and friends to call family.

But each day, I grow a little more disenchanted, because Guild Wars 2 taught me I’m selfish, and like feeling like I am important, and I can’t find it here.

TL;DR
I learned that class roles are a big deal for me, and most of my gaming enjoyment.
Sad day.

First, I love the voice of my female norn.
Secondly, I’m surprised – the voice acting did not strike me as too boring or flat. I t sounds a little dismissive, unimpressed, and loaded with dry humor. Which was exactly the attitude I was looking for!
Frankly, If you’re 8-9 feet tall, used to surviving in a harsh environ, and able to lift the equivalent of small cars, and carry a 7 foot long 60lb peice of sharpened metal… what is worth getting excited about, really?