Yes as I said here and in other thread, thief does need buffs on defensive department. Like someone else said that revealed training should give protection on reveal, but otherwise active defense. You know “in and out” style defense that thief has been for me(mainly S/D player) which the DD seems to be bringing.
Now it does make me a bit mad and sad that loads of thieves seem to think(or lie in hopes of some OP buff? Or just lie to themselves) that they have been bottom profession for the entirety of the game. And most of these kind of posts start with that kind of story instead of actual good pointers for devs and the community.
Really? Cause i remember mesmers especially being just toys for thieves to do whatever they wanted to before trait revamp. If you had problems with mesmers before patch you have no place to say anything about balance. Now that said I’m aware that thief is in a bad spot right now and needs abit of love on their defenses. But I see lot of thief QQ posts ppl make without even realizing how strong you were and blabbering about being patient for 3 years about how “weak” thief was.
You guys do realize that thief was current mesmer level strong before trait revamp and even stronger before…and you have been patient…What?
I don’t ever recall a time where the Thief was stronger than a Mesmer. What you are saying is that before trait “revamp”, the Thief was the strongest profession in the game. Are you sure about that claim? Because we both know this is complete nonsense.
Thief as a top 5 of profession? I would agree with you but to say the Thief was stronger than the Mesmer, PvE, PvP and WvW taken into account? You must be joking.
To some extent, you do prove the point that Thief WAS in fact in a better position than it is now. Therefore, something has to be done, and it’s not about balance.
I dont know what game you are playing but before trait revamp mesmers(and to a less extent other zerk professions) were free food for thief. No thief has never been number one profession never said that. But thief was as strong before the trait revamp as the current mesmer now is. Only the celestial trio could give thieves problems pre revamp.
Yes, having people just sit in stealth is boring gameplay. Having both active offense AND defense is what this game needs and for me active “in and out” style of gameplay defines the profession “thief”.
For some reason every thief seems to think they are revealed 100% of the time. I agree that revealed training should give protection like somebody mentioned already on this post, 200 power is nothing. Also revealed is counterplay, even though engi gets to do it abit too easily. And what is this violating class mechanics bs? Every profession can completely deny everything the other can do by outplaying. Afraid of engi revealing you? Well dont go try to stealth near a one or like lot of ppl here like to say: understand how it works and exploit it.
Would you please stop whining about people having serious responses when you said yourself that this is serious. If people respond appropriately then don’t just call them angry.
Ok, Let me rephrase it: Semi joke but serious observation. good for you? or maybe you would like special services only mesm…erm thieves are entitled to?
I also play a mesmer(better than anyone else) and the forums really have swapped place in terms of whats written in there. So this post was just joking about that
- Every thief will tell you that it’s the most “skillful” profession.
- Every thief is also a very very good above the rest player.
- Every thief thinks any change in the game is a direct nerf to them.
- Every thief is convinced that they take the most effort as a player.
- Every thief thinks that people who play other professions are bad and need to L2P
- Every thief thinks that nobody else can play thief like he/she does.
- Every thief player blames the game balance when they make a mistake
Note: This is a semi joke but also a serious one, this forum has become what mesmer forum used to be and vice versa. This is mostly due to thieves being as powerful as mesmer’s are now before the trait revamp.
Yes, stealth attacks are unique thief “core” mechanic. However other professions have loads of access to stealth thus making it just a game mechanic not a thief only mechanic.
Most thieves just got used to being as strong as mesmers are now pre-trait patch thus this QQ. Also everyday I see very able thieves so we all know these QQ threads are mostly over exaggerated.
Conditions are strong on EVERY profession but only mesmer got nerfed, thats what people here are kittened about.And shatters are VERY easy to dodge, just cause less capable players cant cope with them shouldnt mean nerf. And now there is no point on using shatters on condi mesmer anymore as camping in PU stealth and letting clones swing around does much more dmg.
So it is ok for other professions to reach 8k burns but its not ok for mesmer to do 3k torment?(you can literally stack over 2k burns from just autoattacks on certain spec) OK BRO. now why should condition mesmer ever shatter now? For dat 3 second of confusion? NO there is now absolutely 0 reason to shatter your clones, 0. If some less capable player cant dodge shatter every now and then its his fault he is taking dmg from them.
This argument isn’t over whether SA is op, or stealth is op, or any of that. There’s already plenty of soft counters to stealth. A long time ago Anet said they wanted to stay away from hard class counters, as they should. A step in the right direction would be to make this skill show thieves to the engi using “glitter” as someone mentioned earlier. I personally feel theres enough soft counters to stealth already for it to not be a problem, but since the majority can’t seem to grasp it I’m fine with adding another (the glitter thing)
Soft counters to stealth already
-Can’t cap/decap while stealthed
-Stealth is always counterable by a logical player
—Examples: black powder+hs – rupt the HS
—-cnd – blind/block/dodge the cnd
—-Hide in shadows- long cast time/easy to rupt
—-shadow refuge – automatic aoe bomb target/aoe knockback in the SR
—- channeled skills track through stealth
—-Thieves are not immune to damage… aka condis/aoes etc
I’m not going to defend and try to say stealth is perfectly balanced, but there are plenty of ways to play around it. If you insist on hard counters like the ones in game already IE stealth traps/sic em/analyze, make it NOT PASSIVE and make it require an investment. That is all i must add here
This post I like and agree. Now only if they would remove the passive bonuses thieves and mesmers get(if traited) while in stealth these kind of hard counters wouldnt be even needed and the game would be much better. There is nothing wrong with the current panic strike thief meta stealth, but fighting full shadow arts thief or PU mesmer is just not fun.
I’m still not sure why some thieves are acting like they are nerfed… Overall you will get stronger, sure one extra profession can reveal you if you dont know what you are doing.
idk if he simply doesn’t understand, my english isn’t good enough or….
nobody says thieves got nerfed it is just the fact that lock on is too good and too easy to use and was given class that already destroys thieves…
Many people here are crying that thief is nerfed etc. Pressing buttons is indeed easy.
I’m still not sure why some thieves are acting like they are nerfed… Overall you will get stronger, sure one extra profession can reveal you if you dont know what you are doing.
Basilisk Venom+Choking Gas for that heal stop. Also thieves can still use their heal while revealed, do very good dmg and can use most of their skills too (all actually, except the stealth ones don’t stealth while being revealed).
you really don’t understand the issue do you?
lock on denies team support (not like thief got a lot from it)
lock on denies entire trait line
lock on encourages evade build and discourages use of backstab (that is already worthless most of the time vs engis)
lock on is lazy and brainless….
Shadow Arts is lazy and brainless.
Yes, lock on will prevent stealth resses but wont affect stealth rotations.(other “ress utilities” like shadow refuge are easily interruptible)
Shadow Arts denies entire professions as you can just not fight(obv this wont affect conquest were you must be active)
Even with lock on thief will continue to be on top in conquest(now along with mesmer, which also has traits, most of their survivability and ability to burst tied to stealth)
Did I mention that Shadow Arts is lazy and brainless…
Basilisk Venom+Choking Gas for that heal stop. Also thieves can still use their heal while revealed, do very good dmg and can use most of their skills too (all actually, except the stealth ones don’t stealth while being revealed).
That’s the whole point of counterplay. Like if you destroy mesmer clones, the shatters wont come as strong or are almost useless and so forth. Also stop treating stealth as thief profession mechanic because it’s not. you get bonuses to it from traits sure, but so do others. Crying about this change is like crying that thief can steal the boons that PU gives.
1v1 Thief vs Mesmer was not a hard counter. Only in team play when thief focuses mesmer was it a counter.
The actual counter was never as hard as guardian vs thief or now engi vs thief.
No, it’s the thief whines that are getting old. And now that being said, both thief and mesmer will just have to adjust vs engi. Also both mesmer and thief will be the top dogs come the patch so neither class has any reason to whine.
I have to disagree.
You have to see it this way: Basicly one (MASTER) trait (not even grandmaster trait), hard counters/ destroys an entirely traitline with most of its benefits (except 3 traits) including 2 grandmaster traits + stealth based weaponsets such as d/p.
Maybe thieves will now understand what all the mesmers were qq’ing about thief
ignoring grandmaster trait by just being a thief.
but also a serious one,
