Guild Wars 2

Orion.7264:

Lt Latency.7415:

Ballistic.4531:

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Ballistic.4531:

Lt Latency.7415:

kKagari.6804:

Lt Latency.7415:

Ferguson.2157:

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Ballistic.4531:

Lt Latency.7415:

Forum posters are the minority not the majority.

How do you know this? I would love if people actually were backing up their claims with some kind of evidence. Not even hard evidence. Anything would suffice, just as long it’s not completely made up.
We don’t know if forum people are a minority or a majority.
So please stop quoting this as a hard fact.

This thread has about 100k posts. GW2 sold over 2 million copies.

Even if every single post was a unique person which it’s not even close to being. We need ALOT more posts.

More like 10304 with your post.

I’m against this ascended move, but there is no reason to lie or exagerate.

My bad, typo,

People didn’t believe that forum posters are a minority and wanted some hard proof, Had nothing to do with ascended gear.

You have equally as little proof that the happy players are the majority. I am in a guild full of dissatisfied players; and over half of them have filed for refunds. They don’t post on forums here simply because they don’t have time to burn.

I don’t even know what were are talking about now??

I am not talking about happy or sad. Just how many people post vs how many people play which you seem to agree with.

Saying our last line talks about how most of your guild doesn’t post on the forums

And again you don’t know that for a fact. You don’t know how many left in pre-ascended time, how many left because ascended were introduced, how many left because of this new one-time-huge-thing-event and how many aren’t posting at all.
So again. We don’t know who’s in minority or in majority. There are no facts on this. Only plain speculations.
Edit: I’m not saying I’m in majority here, I’m saying we don’t know.

Yes we do.

2 million vs 10 thousand if every posters was unique (which it’s not)
keep cutting it in 1/2
1 million
500k
250k
125k
62.5k
32.25k

You have to cut the population in 1/2 7 times to even get close to 10k being the majority. If things are this bad in 2 months, Your DAM right then better start making major changes.

It’s funny how you make up math that means nothing. You are so stubborn in saying you know exactly who’s who without any valid fact or proof except for made-up numbers you throw out. Sorry but that’s not proof from my point of view.

Look at this thread. 10k posts.

For that to be the majority. That means this game went from 2 million users which is a number of units sold that this game reached to less then 20k users in 2 months.

If that is the case they should just turn the servers off because this game is done.

Please refer to my post involving the statistical accuracy of the microcosm presented by forums and other such phenomena.

The problem is official video game forums are were people come to complain.

If you go the BF3 forums you will see tons of people with 1000 hours of play time telling you how it’s the worst FPS ever made. (just stop playing)

If you went to the the WoW forums every single expansion is going to be the one that ruins the game forever.

Yes, forums bring up lots of good points. But it’s hard to tell the difference between a troll and someone who actual knows what they are talking about.

This is why MOST games use in game metrics to base alot of what they do on. Not Posts.

Like Say I was talking about PvP balance. I have only played a Messmer and Eng so really I shouldn’t be talking about balance because i haven’t even tried most of the classes. I can just say how things go from my limited experience.

Anything i say would always be biased toward the 2 classes I play

Ballistic.4531:

Lt Latency.7415:

Ballistic.4531:

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Ballistic.4531:

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kKagari.6804:

Lt Latency.7415:

Ferguson.2157:

Lt Latency.7415:

Ballistic.4531:

Lt Latency.7415:

Forum posters are the minority not the majority.

How do you know this? I would love if people actually were backing up their claims with some kind of evidence. Not even hard evidence. Anything would suffice, just as long it’s not completely made up.
We don’t know if forum people are a minority or a majority.
So please stop quoting this as a hard fact.

This thread has about 100k posts. GW2 sold over 2 million copies.

Even if every single post was a unique person which it’s not even close to being. We need ALOT more posts.

More like 10304 with your post.

I’m against this ascended move, but there is no reason to lie or exagerate.

My bad, typo,

People didn’t believe that forum posters are a minority and wanted some hard proof, Had nothing to do with ascended gear.

You have equally as little proof that the happy players are the majority. I am in a guild full of dissatisfied players; and over half of them have filed for refunds. They don’t post on forums here simply because they don’t have time to burn.

I don’t even know what were are talking about now??

I am not talking about happy or sad. Just how many people post vs how many people play which you seem to agree with.

Saying our last line talks about how most of your guild doesn’t post on the forums

And again you don’t know that for a fact. You don’t know how many left in pre-ascended time, how many left because ascended were introduced, how many left because of this new one-time-huge-thing-event and how many aren’t posting at all.
So again. We don’t know who’s in minority or in majority. There are no facts on this. Only plain speculations.
Edit: I’m not saying I’m in majority here, I’m saying we don’t know.

Yes we do.

2 million vs 10 thousand if every posters was unique (which it’s not)
keep cutting it in 1/2
1 million
500k
250k
125k
62.5k
32.25k

You have to cut the population in 1/2 7 times to even get close to 10k being the majority. If things are this bad in 2 months, Your DAM right then better start making major changes.

It’s funny how you make up math that means nothing. You are so stubborn in saying you know exactly who’s who without any valid fact or proof except for made-up numbers you throw out. Sorry but that’s not proof from my point of view.

WoW, That is just sad.

Look at this thread. 10k posts.

For that to be the majority. That means this game went from 2 million users which is a number of units sold that this game reached to less then 20k users in 2 months.

If that is the case they should just turn the servers off because this game is done.

I can make up numbers as well. Here we go…
- What if 80% of the current GW2 population (the active ones) isn’t commenting at all on the forums. For those 80% you have absolutely no clue how they feel. Whether they are for or against the new changes or just don’t care.
- 20% would be on the forums (including you and me).
- Now, 70% of the forum posters (those 20%) are against these game changes.
So how can you tell how’s minority from reading the forum, when you absolutely got no clue how those 80% feel towards the question at hand?

Disclaimer: These numbers are completely made up just to prove that making numbers up mean nothing.

Because even your fake numbers have 80% of the population not posting on the forums. Which still makes forum posters the minority.

It has nothing to do with who is happy or sad, We were never talking about that.

Ballistic.4531:

Lt Latency.7415:

Ballistic.4531:

Lt Latency.7415:

kKagari.6804:

Lt Latency.7415:

Ferguson.2157:

Lt Latency.7415:

Ballistic.4531:

Lt Latency.7415:

Forum posters are the minority not the majority.

How do you know this? I would love if people actually were backing up their claims with some kind of evidence. Not even hard evidence. Anything would suffice, just as long it’s not completely made up.
We don’t know if forum people are a minority or a majority.
So please stop quoting this as a hard fact.

This thread has about 100k posts. GW2 sold over 2 million copies.

Even if every single post was a unique person which it’s not even close to being. We need ALOT more posts.

More like 10304 with your post.

I’m against this ascended move, but there is no reason to lie or exagerate.

My bad, typo,

People didn’t believe that forum posters are a minority and wanted some hard proof, Had nothing to do with ascended gear.

You have equally as little proof that the happy players are the majority. I am in a guild full of dissatisfied players; and over half of them have filed for refunds. They don’t post on forums here simply because they don’t have time to burn.

I don’t even know what were are talking about now??

I am not talking about happy or sad. Just how many people post vs how many people play which you seem to agree with.

Saying our last line talks about how most of your guild doesn’t post on the forums

And again you don’t know that for a fact. You don’t know how many left in pre-ascended time, how many left because ascended were introduced, how many left because of this new one-time-huge-thing-event and how many aren’t posting at all.
So again. We don’t know who’s in minority or in majority. There are no facts on this. Only plain speculations.
Edit: I’m not saying I’m in majority here, I’m saying we don’t know.

Yes we do.

2 million vs 10 thousand if every posters was unique (which it’s not)
keep cutting it in 1/2
1 million
500k
250k
125k
62.5k
32.25k

You have to cut the population in 1/2 7 times to even get close to 10k being the majority. If things are this bad in 2 months, Your DAM right then better start making major changes.

It’s funny how you make up math that means nothing. You are so stubborn in saying you know exactly who’s who without any valid fact or proof except for made-up numbers you throw out. Sorry but that’s not proof from my point of view.

Look at this thread. 10k posts.

For that to be the majority. That means this game went from 2 million users which is a number of units sold that this game reached to less then 20k users in 2 months.

If that is the case they should just turn the servers off because this game is done.

Ballistic.4531:

Lt Latency.7415:

kKagari.6804:

Lt Latency.7415:

Ferguson.2157:

Lt Latency.7415:

Ballistic.4531:

Lt Latency.7415:

Forum posters are the minority not the majority.

How do you know this? I would love if people actually were backing up their claims with some kind of evidence. Not even hard evidence. Anything would suffice, just as long it’s not completely made up.
We don’t know if forum people are a minority or a majority.
So please stop quoting this as a hard fact.

This thread has about 100k posts. GW2 sold over 2 million copies.

Even if every single post was a unique person which it’s not even close to being. We need ALOT more posts.

More like 10304 with your post.

I’m against this ascended move, but there is no reason to lie or exagerate.

My bad, typo,

People didn’t believe that forum posters are a minority and wanted some hard proof, Had nothing to do with ascended gear.

You have equally as little proof that the happy players are the majority. I am in a guild full of dissatisfied players; and over half of them have filed for refunds. They don’t post on forums here simply because they don’t have time to burn.

I don’t even know what were are talking about now??

I am not talking about happy or sad. Just how many people post vs how many people play which you seem to agree with.

Saying our last line talks about how most of your guild doesn’t post on the forums

And again you don’t know that for a fact. You don’t know how many left in pre-ascended time, how many left because ascended were introduced, how many left because of this new one-time-huge-thing-event and how many aren’t posting at all.
So again. We don’t know who’s in minority or in majority. There are no facts on this. Only plain speculations.
Edit: I’m not saying I’m in majority here, I’m saying we don’t know.

Yes we do.

2 million vs 10 thousand if every posters was unique (which it’s not)
keep cutting it in 1/2
1 million
500k
250k
125k
62.5k
32.25k

You have to cut the population in 1/2 7 times to even get close to 10k being the majority. If things are this bad in 2 months, Your DAM right then better start making major changes.

kKagari.6804:

Lt Latency.7415:

Ferguson.2157:

Lt Latency.7415:

Ballistic.4531:

Lt Latency.7415:

Forum posters are the minority not the majority.

How do you know this? I would love if people actually were backing up their claims with some kind of evidence. Not even hard evidence. Anything would suffice, just as long it’s not completely made up.
We don’t know if forum people are a minority or a majority.
So please stop quoting this as a hard fact.

This thread has about 100k posts. GW2 sold over 2 million copies.

Even if every single post was a unique person which it’s not even close to being. We need ALOT more posts.

More like 10304 with your post.

I’m against this ascended move, but there is no reason to lie or exagerate.

My bad, typo,

People didn’t believe that forum posters are a minority and wanted some hard proof, Had nothing to do with ascended gear.

You have equally as little proof that the happy players are the majority. I am in a guild full of dissatisfied players; and over half of them have filed for refunds. They don’t post on forums here simply because they don’t have time to burn.

I don’t even know what were are talking about now??

I am not talking about happy or sad. Just how many people post vs how many people play which you seem to agree with.

Saying our last line talks about how most of your guild doesn’t post on the forums

Ferguson.2157:

Lt Latency.7415:

Ballistic.4531:

Lt Latency.7415:

Forum posters are the minority not the majority.

How do you know this? I would love if people actually were backing up their claims with some kind of evidence. Not even hard evidence. Anything would suffice, just as long it’s not completely made up.
We don’t know if forum people are a minority or a majority.
So please stop quoting this as a hard fact.

This thread has about 100k posts. GW2 sold over 2 million copies.

Even if every single post was a unique person which it’s not even close to being. We need ALOT more posts.

More like 10304 with your post.

I’m against this ascended move, but there is no reason to lie or exagerate.

My bad, typo,

People didn’t believe that forum posters are a minority and wanted some hard proof, Had nothing to do with ascended gear.

Ballistic.4531:

Lt Latency.7415:

Forum posters are the minority not the majority.

How do you know this? I would love if people actually were backing up their claims with some kind of evidence. Not even hard evidence. Anything would suffice, just as long it’s not completely made up.
We don’t know if forum people are a minority or a majority.
So please stop quoting this as a hard fact.

This thread has about 100k posts. GW2 sold over 2 million copies.

Even if every single post was a unique person which it’s not even close to being. We need ALOT more posts.

Haishao.6851:

Lt Latency.7415:

All those complaints are good complaints but are not something you can fix in a patch or 2. It will take at least one expansion to start filling in those holes so were looking at a year or 2.

In the mean time the need something and that is the problem

Gear grinding is also the fastest way to keep players busy while they work on other things. They are also the easiest players to keep happy.

Sure makes people happy, Look at this thread for example.
This is the most lazy and stupid decision i’ve seen arenanet take since 2004.

There’s thousand of thing they could have done to keep people happy and playing without adding this stupid gear progression. Take Fractal dungeon for example. This dungeon by itself without ascended crap seems to be fun enough to keep people busy for a few months.

They also adjusted drop for lower maps and raised reward in dungeons. Those are two things people have been asking that also add some longevity without the need to add a kitten gear treadmill.

They added new skins, but decided to put them in those kitten Nexon RNG boxes. To make sure that there are more angry people than happy.

GW2 need to sell expansion to survive, they certainly wont sell one to me with these stupid decisions.

I’m not a huge fan of it either, but sometimes i comes down to not enough people thinking like that to make it viable.

If I wanted a gear tread mill I would play WoW. The reason I tried this game was the said it would be less grindy.

I am will to wait and see, Because getting the exotic level gear was SSSSSOOOO easy. I’m not at arms with something a little harder say 10-20 hours, Any more then that would be too much for me though

Negativity on forums don’t matter for how people see the game.

Show me a official video game forum and we show you a river of endless tears. Forums is where people come to complain and vent.

What is P2W here??

Exotic was the best level gear and was easy to get.

Now it’s ascended and that is from instances

Astralporing.1957:

Lt Latency.7415:

They are also the easiest players to keep happy.

Gear grinders are impossible to keep happy. They either haven’t yet completed their shiny new tier eq set, or have completed it, and are screaming they have nothing to do. You propably meant keep engaged and interested (which is not the same thing). No, it’s not that easy, as all the WoW clones failures have already shown. On the other hand, gear grind is one of the easiest ways to make casuals unhappy. That unhapiness can already be seend, and it’s going to grow still, because lot of people are not reading boards and blogs, and are yet unaware of the consequences of late changes. That is going to change soon, though.

Correct, By happy, I mean busy playing something doing something. I don’t think they have really set a bar yet that casuals can’t do.

My friend only plays 2 hours at a time every few days and even he said, kitten I finished everything really fast

Ganzo.5079:

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Because it’s not based on forum QQ, it’s based on what the players are doing in game.

Forum posters are the minority not the majority.

I think im done with you, you have 0 arguments so you only can reply with this.
I prefer to have a smart discussion with someone that can prove something and ignore this.
Oh and… you are a part of the minority too… you are a minority, in the minority

I know, I am part of a minority.

Your right, if you think most gamers are forum posters we shouldn’t be talking.

You just said, that Arena net didn’t focus on what was mainly posted here. Why do you think that is? Because they just want to piss everyone off There are like wow this is what the majority of our player base is talking about. Let not do that just to make them angry.

They do things off in game metrics and what there player bases is ACTUALLY doing.

dalendria.3762:

These type of signals and more do work. Look at what happened to Bioware. The refund request uptick was so high during the ME3 fiasco, that Amazon published that they would give “no fault” refunds on the game. I have never seen Amazon do that before. Other retailers followed suit. In the end, Bioware semi-changed one of the biggest complaints about the game. However, by then, it was too late. Their brand and reputation were already tarnished.

And look where that got us, Everyone of meaning in Bioware is now gone, Included the 2 people that started the company who quit the gaming industry.

All there games where not perfect but we not better off with bioware dead.

Ganzo.5079:

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Ganzo.5079:

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Zenith.1234:

I see a lot of uninformed people saying Anet was probably doing this because of the population drop….population drop, that explains why from someone who played since lauch saw nothing but a dramatic increase in population since then.

Also the server population is determined from who is actually logged in playing and after the patch instead of more than 2/3rds of the servers that were full status have dropped to high which tells me a lot of people quit playing. Also this is during prime time.

On sites like xfire, GW2 had like 60% of market play time. At worst it was around 17% with the new patch it’s around 23%.

invi…cof…tational…

Its ok if you want analise numbers… but consider all the variables before!

It’s just pure play time.

Yeah there is allot going on there mainly WoW expansions. But it a pretty big drop in total play time.

So you think that the ascendet move is done by a drop of the players? i dont think so…

If you take this forum as feedback…a lot of player was pissed about:

Lack of content (not gear progression)
Lack of skins (mainly on the cash shop)
Lack of PVP modes (GVG mainly)
Lack of class balance, or strange class nerf
Lack of Pve immersion (worlds bosses are not rewarding, and not a real challenge)
Unbalanced dungeons
Bugs that persist since beta…

and i think im missing something on this list…
But the fact is, that if youy take your time to read to forum, you can see all this things repeated.
Now tell me… how many ppl have asked stats progression on the forum on how many thread?.

Because it’s not based on forum QQ, it’s based on what the players are doing in game.

Forum posters are the minority not the majority.

All those complaints are good complaints but are not something you can fix in a patch or 2. It will take at least one expansion to start filling in those holes so were looking at a year or 2.

In the mean time the need something and that is the problem

Gear grinding is also the fastest way to keep players busy while they work on other things. They are also the easiest players to keep happy.

Ganzo.5079:

Lt Latency.7415:

Zenith.1234:

I see a lot of uninformed people saying Anet was probably doing this because of the population drop….population drop, that explains why from someone who played since lauch saw nothing but a dramatic increase in population since then.

Also the server population is determined from who is actually logged in playing and after the patch instead of more than 2/3rds of the servers that were full status have dropped to high which tells me a lot of people quit playing. Also this is during prime time.

On sites like xfire, GW2 had like 60% of market play time. At worst it was around 17% with the new patch it’s around 23%.

invi…cof…tational…

Its ok if you want analise numbers… but consider all the variables before!

It’s just pure play time when compared to other games from the MMO genere.

Yeah there is allot going on there mainly WoW expansions. But it a pretty big drop in total play time for that group of players.

Zenith.1234:

I see a lot of uninformed people saying Anet was probably doing this because of the population drop….population drop, that explains why from someone who played since lauch saw nothing but a dramatic increase in population since then.

Also the server population is determined from who is actually logged in playing and after the patch instead of more than 2/3rds of the servers that were full status have dropped to high which tells me a lot of people quit playing. Also this is during prime time.

Just watch trends.

On sites like xfire, GW2 had like 60% of market play time. At worst it was around 17% with the new patch it’s around 23%.

So in about 2 months they went from 60% to 17%. That must have worried them

These are not hard numbers, But shows what a sample group is doing.

Both WoW and GW2 are down because SW:ToR has gone up about from 3% to 10% after going free to play a few days ago

John Lucier.5486:

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Waffler.1257:

I don’t understand these arguments against people seeking refunds saying they got their moneys worth. We know that some people have successfully received refunds for the game, so if you don’t plan on playing the game anymore because you don’t approve of the direction what is wrong with trying to get your money back?

Just like if a bank extends a loan to a company and the company goes bankrupt. The bank could say, well I knew there was a chance of default when I made the loan so I will accept the entire loss. But I can guarantee the smart banks will send over every lawyer they have to recover as much as possible before the company’s other creditors do.

They reason for the change is player retention. People play time is WAY WAY down for this game. If people were still playing like crazy this wouldn’t even be a issue but it’s not the case.

Yes, they did make a change, But that is because people aren’t staying.

When you buy a game that tries new things, the company is taking a risk and so are you when you support them. If you choose not to support companies while they try new things, They WON’T try new things.

Yes sometimes, you will get burned when that new thing doesn’t work, but if we want companies to take risks we have to take them as well.

Logic is a little flawed here, people leaving the game before the ascended gear were a part of one of the following groups:

A. Never really paid attention to what the game was supposed to be about, or the philosophy behind it, just mainly bought into the new thing, then realized later it wasn’t their thing. These people would have left anyway and most aren’t coming back for this treadmill because other games do it better.

B. Avid fans of the genre, and knew what they were buying in to. Bought the game for the no treadmill, no grind manifesto. However, due to bugs, lack of S/T PVP features, or what they perceived as class/build imbalances left the game. This group is HUGE compared to group A. Simply having a Patch Test Server from the start, and listening to the community when they nerf the wrong things, as well as fixing bugs before injecting content/nerfing would have kept many from this group around.

Most of the people I know, knew what they were doing and stopped because we have done everything. Even if they didn’t know what there were getting they still want people to stay

Avid fans of the genre should know by now nothing is ever balanced, Sometimes you are the best some times you are the worst. That is just the way it goes.
It has been that way since EQ and it will never change because balance is hard when you have 400 skills 10 stats blah blah blah

Waffler.1257:

I don’t understand these arguments against people seeking refunds saying they got their moneys worth. We know that some people have successfully received refunds for the game, so if you don’t plan on playing the game anymore because you don’t approve of the direction what is wrong with trying to get your money back?

Just like if a bank extends a loan to a company and the company goes bankrupt. The bank could say, well I knew there was a chance of default when I made the loan so I will accept the entire loss. But I can guarantee the smart banks will send over every lawyer they have to recover as much as possible before the company’s other creditors do.

They reason for the change is player retention. People play time is WAY WAY down for this game. If people were still playing like crazy this wouldn’t even be a issue but it’s not the case.

Yes, they did make a change, But that is because people aren’t staying.

When you buy a game that tries new things, the company is taking a risk and so are you when you support them. If you choose not to support companies while they try new things, They WON’T try new things.

Yes sometimes, you will get burned when that new thing doesn’t work, but if we want companies to take risks we have to take them as well.

Enikuo.9205:

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Enikuo.9205:

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Nerth.3940:

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xtorma.1283:

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What else would you do that give you that kind of value for your money??

I went to see the new bond movie and the add was nothing like what I thought the movie was going to be.

That cost me alot more then 10 cents an hour.

But when you went to see the bond movie , it didnt turn into twilight half way through.

Actually it sort of did.

I thought i was going to see a movie about bond a super spy and gadgets like normal but he was a worthless bum who couldn’t pass his training and had no spy tools.

But bond is not the actual point.

What is it then? I bought a product because it was advertised in a certain way. I don’t play games with gear grind (WoW, Rift, SW:TOR, …). I don’t have the time anymore. So, they advertised that this is going to be different, whole game is end-game, play how you want to play, we respect our players, yadda, yadda, yadda. What happens? they do a 180 on us after we bought the game and spent a considerable amount in the gem store.

Oh, just to be clear, I can’t get a refund because I was one of those fools who pre-purchased on the same day it was available to show my support for their so called “manifesto”. I even planned to buy at least 20€ worth of gems every month, just like a subscription to show my support for their efforts.

Makes sense?

Yeah, You paid and played for one style and if they change to something you don’t like you stop.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Paying for 600 hours+ and saying your didn’t get your monies worth not so much. I don’t even think I have played a game for 600 hours, Well maybe counter strike but that is because it’s like 10+ years old.

600 hours that ANet wasted of that player’s time. They can say they didn’t get their money’s worth, because it’s their money. It’s their time. Not yours. That’s the point.

Where they not playing for fun that 600 hours? What were they doing if it was a wasted 600 hours

Some people have more money than time. They don’t value the experience in the same way that you do. Those 600 hours are more valuable to them than the 10 cents. And, those people are often attracted to horizontal progression over vertical progression, which is the main point of contention in this patch. But, they can’t get their time back, just money.

I’m not personally seeking a refund. I’m still hoping that ANet changes their mind. But, I can’t fault others for doing so.

And again, If there was no carrot to chace before the must have been playing for fun.
So how are those 600 hours wasted??

It’s not like they grinded for 600 hours to buy a set of gear then found out that set of gear was no longer good. That would be a waste of 600 hours.

Right now, You play things for fun because there is nothing to grind

Fozzik.1742:

The time played doesn’t matter. ArenaNet has provided no method of effective communication. No discussion with the devs, no polls, no nothing. They didn’t ask about this change. They just went ahead and changed the fundamental design philosophy and said, “if you like it, play…if you don’t like it, quit”. That’s their message to their players.

They don’t care a bit what is said on these forums. They are watching the metrics on their servers. If people play, they are implying they are fine with these changes. If players stop playing, they are voting no. Since that’s how ArenaNet wants to handle things, players have to accept it.

The players are responding using the only method ArenaNet provided. They are sending a message that ArenaNet will hear. They are stopping play, stopping gem purchases, and some are asking for a refund.

With a change this big, asking for your money back may actually be the ONLY message that might be heard.

So, as I said, it’s not a discussion of value or played time. It’s a matter of ArenaNet only providing one method of effective communication, and players wanting to be heard.

Personally, I love the game, and wish I could still play it. I played every day from head start until this past Thursday. Now, I can’t play anymore. If I do, I will be sending the message that I accept these changes. So, they’ve put me in a position where the only way I can express my disgust effectively is to give up a game I love. It also makes sense to stop now, since playing and watching the gear treadmill and power creep slowly destroy my fun would just be depressing.

Personally, I won’t ask for a refund of my purchase price or the gems I bought to support the game. Instead, I will simply move on. I will never log in again unless these changes are put right, and / or ArenaNet provides a better method of communication. ArenaNet has forced me to vote with my feet, and I vote no.

Actually I think they only way is to keep playing and just not chase the carrot. Which is hard because it’s not fun to do world PvP in crappy gear.

But if the only people left are all on the treadmill, This is no reason to not turn it up even faster

They can’t answer, Cause if something changes from the answer. People think they can ask for refunds.

So they have to say nothing and what ever happens happens.

Enikuo.9205:

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Nerth.3940:

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xtorma.1283:

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What else would you do that give you that kind of value for your money??

I went to see the new bond movie and the add was nothing like what I thought the movie was going to be.

That cost me alot more then 10 cents an hour.

But when you went to see the bond movie , it didnt turn into twilight half way through.

Actually it sort of did.

I thought i was going to see a movie about bond a super spy and gadgets like normal but he was a worthless bum who couldn’t pass his training and had no spy tools.

But bond is not the actual point.

What is it then? I bought a product because it was advertised in a certain way. I don’t play games with gear grind (WoW, Rift, SW:TOR, …). I don’t have the time anymore. So, they advertised that this is going to be different, whole game is end-game, play how you want to play, we respect our players, yadda, yadda, yadda. What happens? they do a 180 on us after we bought the game and spent a considerable amount in the gem store.

Oh, just to be clear, I can’t get a refund because I was one of those fools who pre-purchased on the same day it was available to show my support for their so called “manifesto”. I even planned to buy at least 20€ worth of gems every month, just like a subscription to show my support for their efforts.

Makes sense?

Yeah, You paid and played for one style and if they change to something you don’t like you stop.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Paying for 600 hours+ and saying your didn’t get your monies worth not so much. I don’t even think I have played a game for 600 hours, Well maybe counter strike but that is because it’s like 10+ years old.

600 hours that ANet wasted of that player’s time. They can say they didn’t get their money’s worth, because it’s their money. It’s their time. Not yours. That’s the point.

Where they not playing for fun that 600 hours? What were they doing if it was a wasted 600 hours

Nerth.3940:

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xtorma.1283:

Lt Latency.7415:

What else would you do that give you that kind of value for your money??

I went to see the new bond movie and the add was nothing like what I thought the movie was going to be.

That cost me alot more then 10 cents an hour.

But when you went to see the bond movie , it didnt turn into twilight half way through.

Actually it sort of did.

I thought i was going to see a movie about bond a super spy and gadgets like normal but he was a worthless bum who couldn’t pass his training and had no spy tools.

But bond is not the actual point.

What is it then? I bought a product because it was advertised in a certain way. I don’t play games with gear grind (WoW, Rift, SW:TOR, …). I don’t have the time anymore. So, they advertised that this is going to be different, whole game is end-game, play how you want to play, we respect our players, yadda, yadda, yadda. What happens? they do a 180 on us after we bought the game and spent a considerable amount in the gem store.

Oh, just to be clear, I can’t get a refund because I was one of those fools who pre-purchased on the same day it was available to show my support for their so called “manifesto”. I even planned to buy at least 20€ worth of gems every month, just like a subscription to show my support for their efforts.

Makes sense?

Yeah, You paid and played for one style and if they change to something you don’t like you stop.

Yeah, that makes sense.

Paying for 600 hours+ and saying your didn’t get your monies worth not so much. I don’t even think I have played a game for 600 hours, Well maybe counter strike but that is because it’s like 10+ years old.

xtorma.1283:

Lt Latency.7415:

What else would you do that give you that kind of value for your money??

I went to see the new bond movie and the add was nothing like what I thought the movie was going to be.

That cost me alot more then 10 cents an hour.

But when you went to see the bond movie , it didnt turn into twilight half way through.

Actually it sort of did.

I thought i was going to see a movie about bond a super spy and gadgets like normal but he was a worthless bum who couldn’t pass his training and had no spy tools.

But bond is not the actual point.

The point is the list of things you can do for 10 cents a hour is small

What else would you do that give you that kind of value for your money??

I went to see the new bond movie and the add was nothing like what I thought the movie was going to be.

That cost me alot more then 10 cents an hour.

Enikuo.9205:

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Wow People with 600 hours played after paying 60 bucks.

What joke.

You got your monies worth.

Now you want to unpay for it for what they gave you. If you don’t like stop playing and stop spending money. But if you played for 600 hours, They gave you enough.

I would say that ANet both failed to deliver the product they advertised and wasted 600 hours of that player’s time, so they’re doubly wrong.

I don’t think it’s appropriate to tell someone that they got their money’s worth, especially in this circumstance.

That works out to 10 cents an hour.

As there was no grind so far, You were playing for fun. It’s pretty hard to get fun for 10 cents an hour.

xtorma.1283:

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Ballistic.4531:

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You know What I would do if I was a dev company. I would never tell anyone any thing about future plans EVER!!!!!

If the second something small changed a bunch of people can roll around kicking a scream after playing 600 hours to get their money back. It’s too risky.

This is why game companies lock everything in the vault and don’t tell people what they are working on.

The ONLY thing you do is hurt the industry as a whole. It a HUGE risk for companies to build and try new things cause some times they don’t work and they still need to make a profit.

GW2 tried to be more then a WoW clone, For that at least they deserve 60 bucks.

Why the rage?
And it’s not small change. It’s a huge change. In game’s philosophy. They did try to be different than WoW-clones, for 2.5 months. The moment they started to turn their back on this ideology, that’s when people have started asking for refunds.

No rage,

I’m just saying you people are not fighting the man or improving anything. You are just making thing worse.

GW2 launched a game that tried to be different. Maybe it will work, Maybe it won’t.

But we got our monies worth for that. If you deiced the new changes are not to your liking, Stop playing, Stop spending money.

Then they see, Hey we made money with this idea, Then lost money with this idea.

The holy crap I want my money back because you tried something and want to test something new to see if can boost player count and the amount of to nothing usefull.

If I want to make a game that tries something new, Now I am at a huge risk.

1) My new risk might not work.
2) If I change to try and make it work, People can take the money back even though they played for 60 bucks.

You now what the people who right the checks to pay for games will say. Don’t do something new. Make a clone cause it’s easy profit.

1. that is why it’s called a risk
2. They never came out and said it wasn’t working. They just did it. Look at the cash shop. It’s a barren wasteland. It should be packed full of skins to sell. The first new dungeon they created went directly for a gear increase, they didn’t even try to see if new awsome skins would be just as desireable. It’s like they didnt even try to make thier model work. they just abandoned it.

Personally, i will never ask for a refund, but that is only because I care about the poor guy who works in the basement at anet, has three kids and a wife, and drives an old beat up volvo.

And I like wvw :p

Right and if too risky for companies to spend 200 million trying something new. They won’t.

They will just make CoD once a year and roll around in a huge pile of money. While companies that at least tried get crapped on.

don ring.2793:

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xtorma.1283:

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Wow People with 600 hours played after paying 60 bucks.

What joke.

You got your monies worth.

Now you want to unpay for it for what they gave you. If you don’t like stop playing and stop spending money. But if you played for 600 hours, They gave you enough.

Personal opinion.

You know What I would do if I was a dev company. I would never tell anyone any thing about future plans EVER!!!!!

If the second something small changed a bunch of people can roll around kicking a scream after playing 600 hours to get their money back. It’s too risky.

This is why game companies lock everything in the vault and don’t tell people what they are working on.

The ONLY thing you do is hurt the industry as a whole. It a HUGE risk for companies to build and try new things cause some times they don’t work and they still need to make a profit.

GW2 tried to be more then a WoW clone, For that at least they deserve 60 bucks.

Maybe if devs shared their ideas with us (without spoiling future content ofc) and truly paid attention to what the players wanted, they wouldn’t be at risk of losing their player base and profits. I promise you that if a couple of months ago they had asked the players if they wanted a new tier of equipment that was slightly superior, they would have never made that update in the first place due to the 10k+ rants that they are receiving now. And that’s just the people that decided to speak up. Who knows how many people just quit the moment they saw the update or simply don’t look at the forums.

Becuase you don’t know what players want.

When GW2 launched it play time was WAY above WoWs. It dropped WAY below WoWs in less then 2 months.

That is what they are trying to fix.

There is way worse things they could have done.

P2W or charge a sub fee, Which they did not do.

Just don’t chase the carrot and show them you are not interested in that.

Ballistic.4531:

Lt Latency.7415:

You know What I would do if I was a dev company. I would never tell anyone any thing about future plans EVER!!!!!

If the second something small changed a bunch of people can roll around kicking a scream after playing 600 hours to get their money back. It’s too risky.

This is why game companies lock everything in the vault and don’t tell people what they are working on.

The ONLY thing you do is hurt the industry as a whole. It a HUGE risk for companies to build and try new things cause some times they don’t work and they still need to make a profit.

GW2 tried to be more then a WoW clone, For that at least they deserve 60 bucks.

Why the rage?
And it’s not small change. It’s a huge change. In game’s philosophy. They did try to be different than WoW-clones, for 2.5 months. The moment they started to turn their back on this ideology, that’s when people have started asking for refunds.

No rage,

I’m just saying you people are not fighting the man or improving anything. You are just making thing worse.

GW2 launched a game that tried to be different. Maybe it will work, Maybe it won’t.

But we got our monies worth for that. If you deiced the new changes are not to your liking, Stop playing, Stop spending money.

Then they see, Hey we made money with this idea, Then lost money with this idea.

The holy crap I want my money back because you tried something and want to test something new to see if can boost player count and the amount of to nothing usefull.

If I want to make a game that tries something new, Now I am at a huge risk.

1) My new idea might not work.
2) If I change to try and make it work, People can take the money back even though they played for 600 hours.

You now what the people who right the checks to pay for games will say. Don’t do something new. Make a clone cause it’s easy profit.

xtorma.1283:

Lt Latency.7415:

Wow People with 600 hours played after paying 60 bucks.

What joke.

You got your monies worth.

Now you want to unpay for it for what they gave you. If you don’t like stop playing and stop spending money. But if you played for 600 hours, They gave you enough.

Personal opinion.

You know What I would do if I was a dev company. I would never tell anyone any thing about future plans EVER!!!!!

If the second something small changed a bunch of people can roll around kicking a scream after playing 600 hours to get their money back. It’s too risky.

This is why game companies lock everything in the vault and don’t tell people what they are working on.

The ONLY thing you do is hurt the industry as a whole. It a HUGE risk for companies to build and try new things cause some times they don’t work and they still need to make a profit.

GW2 tried to be more then a WoW clone, For that at least they deserve 60 bucks.

Wow People with 600 hours played after paying 60 bucks.

What joke.

You got your monies worth.

Now you want to unpay for it for what they gave you. If you don’t like stop playing and stop spending money. But if you played for 600 hours, They gave you enough.

I really don’t believe people are getting refunds.

There is no Proof there is anything past Ascended so you can’t prove that there is even a gear treadmill yet and balancing no game is balacned. So you could get your money back for every game ever made for that.

They got got a refund in 6 hours?? That pretty fast processing if it said a few days from when he asked got one maybe

I don’t think it has anything to do with money and more to do trying to quickly fill the content gap it has with games like WoW.

I don’t see how adding this new stuff is going to make people buy more gems.

There are making the same mistake ALL NEW MMOs make, The launch with alot of people and then they start leaving because they have finished most of the content. The reaction to this is ALWAYS, Holy crap we need to be more like WoW.

But the closer you become to WoW the more your lack of content compared to WoW sticks out like a sore thumb.

They should stick to there guns and over time launch lots of new fun content. IMO. While still trying to be GW.

Xpiher.5209:

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I agree.

Let us get gear in the Play style we like This includes SPvP. Forcing us to go to a play style will don’t want to grind is frustrating..

Just because a grind makes you play more doesn’t make the game better.

Adding a grind just to try to get people to play longer is such a crutch, Make people play longer because you are adding fun new content.

Everyone is given max armor at sPvP. Why would a person who does only sPvP even care about this update?

Because I while I mainly do SPvP.

I also send a bit of time doing WPvP.

So when I go to this content I like, Even thought I spend huge amounts of time playing. I have the WORST gear here because I get nothing doing what I like.

Xpiher.5209:

Lt Latency.7415:

I agree.

Let us get gear in the Play style we like This includes SPvP. Forcing us to go to a play style will don’t want to grind is frustrating..

Just because a grind makes you play more doesn’t make the game better.

Adding a grind just to try to get people to play longer is such a crutch, Make people play longer because you are adding fun new content.

Everyone is given max armor at sPvP. Why would a person who does only sPvP even care about this update?

Because I while I mainly do SPvP. I also send a bit of time doing WPvP. So when I go to this content I like, Even thought I spend huge amounts of time playing. I have the WORST gear here because I get nothing doing what I like.

I am sick of having to grind out Play styles I don’t like.

I like SPvP the most then a little world PvP.

To get my world PvP gear I grinded out PvE hard for a long time, Because I thought I would never have to do it again.

Now, Boom they are sending me to dugouns this time to do the grind again.

I’m out. Right now my play time is 80% doing stuff I don’t like 20% doing stuff I do like.

If there must be a grind because that is the only way they can keep people playing. LET US GET IT FROM ANY PLAY STYLE. I want to do the this I enjoy not do the things I hate because I need shinnies.

I agree.

Let us get gear in the Play style we like This includes SPvP. Forcing us to go to a play style will don’t want to grind is frustrating..

Just because a grind makes you play more doesn’t make the game better.

Adding a grind just to try to get people to play longer is such a crutch, Make people play longer because you are adding fun new content.

The problem is MMO lean on the gear tread mill like a crutch. I play way way more hours on FPS games, Because they are FUN.

MMOs seems to go……OH NO people are leaving. Give them a huge grind to do something over and over again. The reason this works is you can keep lieing to your self that the game will get better if I just get those 2 more pieces of gear. Not because it makes the game better.

I left WoW to get off the gear treadmill.

If they are going to add the gear treadmill to this game….might as well get back on WoWs.

No, there is no way they should add the trinity back in.

You just turn into WoW with less content. Which has ended badly for every game that has tried.

Stick to your guns and try to be different. If you copy WoW you will fail like everyone else because they have a 7 year head start on being WoW.

Flimzy.1837:

The problem is that people WILL demand 1v1 balance, which would require changing up the entire game.
The mesmer for example is a duelist by definition. They basically never lose 1 on 1 battles in sPvP. If dueling was introduced, people would complain, and we would have quite the mess on our hands.

Arenanet choose to balance for a group PvP game, so that’s what we get.

it’s the same with WoW. You can duel there so that is not the best reason IMO.

It really bothered me in Swtor and it bothers me in this game as well. For some reason an easy feature like /duel is being taken out of MMOs.

I can’t get into PvP in these games because this is how I learned to fight other classes. In WoW you could go out and fight the same person over and over again and figure out how to get better at fight each class.

Now when you join a game and are fighting 4 or 5 people at the same time. I have no idea what any of the classes are doing or how to fight any of them which makes the learning curve much steeper and alot more frustrating IMO.

The PvP achievements only give you stuff for PvP.

So it doesn’t matter if you don’t do them

How about some easy staples like Capture the flag, I was sort of pumped that there was a new one.

Until i saw it was the same as the other 3

I think it works,

If you know you are about to take focus fire, This gives ever class a way to delay the focus burst and give team mates time to help.

It more for PvP.

They can easily make it so you have stuff to dodge in PvP.

The combat system is set up so everyone is responsible for keeping themselves alive instead of making it the work of just the tank and healer.

I do think they have some work to do to though, Namely setting up harder battler for massive zergs. Right now if the zerg is big enough you can go to sleep at the wheel and know the boss is going down.

But that is true for any zerg in most game

It’s always been like this.

You can’t use SPvP rewards in World PvP.

SPvP is totally separate from the rest of the game. I think it sucks but it;’s always been this way.

Just clear it and if something pop up start adding them again

Ned Stark.9356:

lorazcyk.8927:

but if i POST on forums its because i like the game.

I post because I hope ANet will listen and improve the game so I can finally get my 60 dollar’s worth. Hopefully before the world ends. Unless ANet gives me a refund, I don’t have money to spend on another game so I need to hope they will make the game worth playing.

They can only make so much content at one time people burn threw it and then need something new to do.

Wish people would stop saying that, I didn’t burn through content at all, there is so much I haven’t done. I play games with 30 or so hours of content and I repeat them over and over and over and over for more than 15 years now, having the time of my life each time. Lack of “new content” is not an issue to me. I feel no need to ask for more content.
I didn’t burn through GW2 content at all, I still only have one Lv 80 and it took me so long to get her there. By the time I did my friends already had 2 or 3 Lv 80s and had done map completion, wooooooooow!

I agree with this guy but won’t hold my breath. apparently Anets answer to all of our problems is “…….” until they come out with the next game killing patch and then rinse and repeat. And from the lack of responses from the Anet Dev team it seems more like they’re not even going to attempt to even fix the current bugs that are plaguing the game but will instead implement an entire new batch to try and make us forget the old ones.

Best thing for them to do now is either stop ALL current development projects and have the ENTIRE team focused on fixing the issues that have been around since launch (or even before launch), fire their current staff which seems incapable of doing anything and hire some decent ones, or as a last resort turn the game and all rights to it over to a company that can actually make it a decent game worth the 60 bucks since they apparently can’t even do that.

Anyone who even THINKS about using these words “well it’s only been out for a few months” or “give them more time” and my personal favorite “they have a different team for each category” should stow it. These excuses are like butts. Everyone has one and they all stink.

they only can do so much with there bugget??

You think this game didn’t have 60 dollars worth of effort put into it for what you got out of the box??

Because there are alot of options now,

They can only make so much content at one time people burn threw it and then need something new to do.

It’s not like the old days where you only had WoW or EQ and stuck with it because there was nothing else to play.

That is pretty common in the older style MMOs.

It was general called pull to a camp. The camp site being where the players would sit all day. The puller was the one bring the mobs to the camp.

This sort of went out of style because it involved staying in the same place for long long periods of time.

Even though this game has alot of people farmming the same spots in Orr.

I think they still need to work on how loot drops to make going for bigger things like what are talking about worth it. Right now the hard enemies are alot of work for less and worse loot.