Yes, I can go throw snowballs at other players. Yes I can build snowmen out of magic snow. I can open presents and follow a dolyak carrying presents as many times as my heart desires.
The problem is that everything that we can do this year we could do last year. We have the same annoying JP, the same game ringing the bells, everything is the same.
The biggest disappointment of all. Because I did the “get the ornaments back for the orphans” event last year there is nothing new for me to do this year. I find it really sad that Anet couldn’t come up with something new for those of us that already have the tree. After all, think about it, we are long time loyal players but this is what we get for Wintersday?
Thank you Anet for ruining Wintersday for me by just recycling the same thing we had last year.
It gets even better. Unlike last year when we actually still got AP for the single daily completed items, this year, Anet even kittened up the wintersday dailies as well by taking away any achievement points for completing single dailies. Two chests instead of just one is little compensation for kittening this up too Anet. It is still you saying “play it how we think you should” instead of letting the players decide for themselves. Had we still been able to get some achievement points for the daily items that WE decide to complete, it would have worked. If I could +100 to OP’s thoughts as well, that would have still only been a part of my disappointment with Wintersday offerings this year.
Thanks for continuing to chip away at any of the remaining decent stuff about the game. They are apparently too busy figuring out how to take previous rewards away from the people they should be trying to support, their existing player base.
It seems to be happening more often since HoT release, but there are times when there are excessiely long login times, or it times out, and people are unable to login at all. Don’t know if it has anything to do with the reported server maintenance, but it happened before during reported times, and now, there was recently reported maintenance, which is supposedly done, but after game day reset, I have been having issues trying to sign in to the game client.
So the 2 recent years and the latest half a year with extensive daily options introduced after many threads and which made people happy do not count as an argument anymore?
There were no “extensive daily options”. It was rather the opposite.
…
Now we’re at version 3. The laurels, the one required currency, have been moved out of the daily quests, fixing that issue. At the same time the dailies themselves have been rolled back to a system like, but more so, version 1, being very specific and very random, wanting you to go out of your way to do stuff.
Only unlike version 1, the critical flaw of being a requirement no longer exists so players who don’t want a system to do that can simply ignore it safely at no cost to themselves.That’s what happened.
The past implementation (which ran for ~1 years btw, if memory serves – not 2,5 years :P ) didn’t work. It fixed one issue of version 1, but also removed the entire point of why we got dailies in the first place. Now version 3 brings that point back into the game while also alleviating the issue the first version had.And even the AP hunters cannot complain. Why?
Because while getting the daily meta was nearly automatic in version 2, getting 10-12 AP was quite the grind. You didn’t get that just from picking your nose in LA at all. It cost a lot of time.
While the new dailies are awfully specific, they’re also very small. Getting 3 of a type is a matter of 10-20 minutes, even if you go for the WvW ones. That’s a lot less time than getting 10 AP in the old system took.
Yes, some AP “hunters” CAN complain, but I will get to that. My main complaint with the new dailies, above and beyond Anet trying to ’’encourage’’ the players to other parts of the game is when they change things they usually take away some small thing that adversely affects how I choose to play, and others, judging by some of the comments I have seen in map chat. My wondering what the hell Anet was doing goes back to an issue I saw before I even started playing GW2, back when I was trying to do the downloads of the game files.
I don’t know about anyone else, but to me, if you are only allowed to have one progress bar because of physical screen space, unless all the files will always be the exact same size every time you download files that use that bar, what F-ing good is it? Have it show the total file size if anything, something actually useful, so you can tell if you have X Kbps download speed average, then it will take Y number of minutes or hours to complete.
And to those who will say “well just go to site X” to see what the download is going to be. Here is a wild idea, why not just use the EXISTING SYSTEM THAT IS ALREADY THERE to see what it is? What if someone downloads a part of the files, and then for whatever reason gets interrupted, and has to do it again? Is that web site going to be able to tell the user what specific files THEIR computer already downloaded and still needs? Not very likely.
Next problem. When the forced transmute exchange was implemented, this screwed over people who wanted to transmute their gear as they leveled their characters. Is having all skins available across all chars a good thing? Yes. Did some players still get kittened? Yes. The new system, by way of the forced exchange, treats every single item as if it were a level 80 piece of gear, and it only does not even half of what the old system did. Now, you can just change skins. Before, you could change the stats and the runes/sigils from either of the 2 items to the new one. Now, all you are doing is changing the skin.
Now on to the “improved” dailies. Apparently enough people complained about how difficult and what a pain in the kitten it was to get every single little AP you could, so Anet kittened up that part of the dailies as well. Was it an improvement? For some people, yes. Did some players still get kittened? Yes. Not everybody gave a kitten about getting every single little AP they possibly could every day. Some of us were happy doing whatever dailies we felt like doing, and were happy getting the 1 or 2 achievement points that doing that resulted in. NOW, those people who do not feel the need to traipse all over the maps get kittened out of those achievement points they would otherwise have gotten from the single daily items.
Now for the f2p system. I do not claim to speak for anybody else on this, but I think that if people stopped to think about it, they would see this as a problem as well. With this system now, it seems that Anet is flipping off (giving the middle finger in the U.S.) all the players off who previously to now were loyal in the point where they bought the game originally by offering the free players every part of the game (the first part AND HoT) if they buy HoT, and kittening over the original people by making them pay again for HoT. Yes, the f2p players are restricted use in the original part of the game, but doesn’t them buying HoT unlock those restrictions here? Let’s use simple math (example numbers only) and say the original game cost $50, and the HoT expansion costs $50. So for $100 the original players get the exact same capability as the people who only paid $50 for the HoT expansion. Why do more people not see this as a “kitten you”?
I had a similar problem today (was able to get to the forum however), when starting up the game client, the program did the original splash screen download, and then kept going into “connection error detected” type of problem. It finally self resolved after restarting enough, or else the issue was fixed while I was restarting.
Well, I have been away from the game (and the forum) for quite a while because of changes Anet made a while back that I felt were unnecessarily and intentionally screwing over some of their regular players in a misguided attempt to force people into playing other parts of the game that they may or may not chosen to do otherwise.
I already know that not all players share this feeling, and that is fine, not saying you should. However, I feel that Anet needs to be aware of the situation, my proposed solution for it, and why I am disappointed that they still have not done anything about it.
Now, if you want to receive ANY achievement points for doing any daily items at all, you need to fully complete the entire quota for the achievement. The problem is that previously to the “improvement” when this happened, if you did some daily and/or monthly achievements, but it wasn’t enough to get the reward for that particular full reward, you at least got SOME achievement points for what you DID decide to do. I do not care to try to see if the monthly is this way still or not, due to the daily achievement still being messed up. Now, for you to get ANY achievement points for the daily (I presume the monthly is the same, I cannot be bothered to try to find out that is screwed over as well) , you have to complete the entire thing.
You want to say, well you have to do less now. OK, fair enough, but you still HAVE to do all of it to get ANY points at all. You can no longer choose to do one or two things because you want to and get any achievement points at all. And THAT is what is F-ing over many players who for whatever reason, CHOOSE to not do all of the dailies needed to get the full achievement.
I am fine not getting every single achievement point I can every day, but at least I was able to get something before. Now, even that is not a choice that I made, but a choice that was made for me by Anet, who it seems wants to decide for me how I should want to play.
My recommended solution at the time, and still now is to allow some points for the people who only do some of the dailies. Let THEM decide if they want to do them all or not without getting F-ed over because they didn’t want to do all of them. It doesn’t screw over the people who do all of them, and more importantly, it doesn’t screw over the people who don’t. Let them get 1 achievement point for each item they do, and for any once they complete the daily achievement. You can still award the 10 for 3, and have the ones that are done apply towards the 10.
I am not going to rage quit totally as I have spent money to purchase this game. However, I did not waste my money on the latest thorn update, and it does not look likely I will ever do so, because of how Anet handled this situation. Even if they do actually fix this problem at some point in the future, my attitude towards Anet has probably been permanently soured because of this.
As someone who wants to someday max out my daily AP, I find that the new dailies give me a ton more choice. Because it’s incredibly easy to complete 3 in under 10 mins. I can then use the rest of my gaming time doing whatever I want, rather than spending 1-2 hours ticking off boxes.
Now, you may say that it’s my choice to want to max out AP, and if I didn’t want to… I could’ve just done whatever I liked and got my daily anyway. Perhaps… except, the new system takes that into account too. All your former daily rewards are now log-in rewards… the only thing you get from completing 3 dailies is the 10 AP. So really, if you’re not interested in AP, you are now completely free from ever having to do dailies ever again. Which gives you more choice.
The problem is not the new system. The problem is that all the players have gotten into the habit of having to do dailies, and can’t get themselves out of that habit. The choice to do whatever you want in game is there. You just have to make it, rather than blindly doing dailies.
Okay, so… as I’ve tried to explain, repeatedly, I’m protesting the culling of the number of dailies available for my game mode. Having more options to complete those three dailies for those ten points would NOT affect you in any way, would it? Can someone help me phrase this better? I feel like I must be spewing gibberish, at this point.
You are expressing it fine, the problem is that some people either refuse to see what is in front of their face, or their brain is seeing it as “this entire system sucks change it back” when you post anything even close to saying it isn’t perfect as is.
As someone who wants to someday max out my daily AP, I find that the new dailies give me a ton more choice. Because it’s incredibly easy to complete 3 in under 10 mins. I can then use the rest of my gaming time doing whatever I want, rather than spending 1-2 hours ticking off boxes.
Now, you may say that it’s my choice to want to max out AP, and if I didn’t want to… I could’ve just done whatever I liked and got my daily anyway. Perhaps… except, the new system takes that into account too. All your former daily rewards are now log-in rewards… the only thing you get from completing 3 dailies is the 10 AP. So really, if you’re not interested in AP, you are now completely free from ever having to do dailies ever again. Which gives you more choice.
The problem is not the new system. The problem is that all the players have gotten into the habit of having to do dailies, and can’t get themselves out of that habit. The choice to do whatever you want in game is there. You just have to make it, rather than blindly doing dailies.
The problem, is in fact, the lack of choice for the players. And as far as “having” to do the dailies, I had no problem with that, if I chose to do more dailies, I received more of an award than other times, as more people who chose to do more dailies than I did received more of an award in APs than I did. I am fine with that, that should be how it works. They put themselves into that habit, not Anet. That was their choice to make. This all or nothing approach with the dailies takes just one more choice away from the player. And yes, limiting available options is removing choice.
IMO, the new dailies suck for several reasons:
1) Newbies cannot do them. There is generally only one daily that can be done by a newbie without resorting to PvP/WvW, and characters below level 18 and 22 will not be able to see the PvP/WvW icons or know to go to Lion’s Arch.
2) What was previously a system that encouraged to enjoy parts of the game you normally wouldn’t, is now a grind, because you have to do certain things in certain places. To put this more simply, watching ten vistas anywhere would’ve been more fun than watching one vista in a specific map. At the moment, it feels like nothing more than a sink for a bit of silver from waypointing around.
3) They have added yet more psuedo-loot – rewards that were already part of the game but were changed from automatic to now requiring you to click things. Just what we needed, more junk on our already overflowing characters and banks. In theory, this lets us use the experience and other rewards on any character, but in reality the boost that it gives is way too low to matter.
I personally used dailies as a form of map completion incentive. I would go where I wanted to go and do what I wanted to do, while completing them.
Overall, I see the new daily system as just like every other system Anet has implemted: Very good idea on paper and very poor implementation. Just like everything else, such as megaserver and world boss timers, they seem to’ve stopped development on the feature about halfway through and released an unfinished product that did not have the thought and polish of a proper QA team or any actual players.
Please stop making “paper” changes. It is hurting the game’s presentation because we keep ending up with these complex interlocking systems that don’t quite want to snap into place and become an actual thing.
Newbies get different dailies than we do. For example, when the daily was Iron Marches events, my wife’s new account got Queensdale events.
That is another reason to un"improve" the dailies back to how they were before. You can no longer work on the same dailies, then while you may be able to help others with them, you can no longer get them at the same time in those situations.
I too am primarily a PvE player.
I too find the trait changes to be a concern when it comes to player choice, variety, and so on.
I find the new daily system to be better for one, myself at least, desiring more choice in how I spend most of my play time. A system that allows me to complete the dailies more quickly leaves me with more choice in how to spend the majority of my play time while still pursuing daily rewards.
I would not argue that any of the changes are to, “force,” anything as, quite simply, there is no force involved. Offering a completely optional, non gameplay affecting, reward for doing something is in no way a means of forcing people to do that something.
Technically speaking, force may not be the most accurate term to use. However, what would you call it when the supposed “encouragement” is nothing more than strangling the available options?
1) Newbies cannot do them. There is generally only one daily that can be done by a newbie without resorting to PvP/WvW, and characters below level 18 and 22 will not be able to see the PvP/WvW icons or know to go to Lion’s Arch.
From the Patch notes -
The number of available achievements per day is based on the highest-level character on an account:
Levels 1–10: 1 achievement per category
Levels 11–30: 3 achievements per category
Levels 31–80: 4 achievements per category
Be that as it may, less choice is not better than more choice. Fewer choices where you go to to complete the dailies, fewer choices on what you gather when that is one of the dailies, fewer choices all around. If fewer choices is the problem, fewer choices is not the solution, no matter how many different ways you try to present it.
The choice issue actually has a lot to do with whether or not you’re actually an achievement hunter. Before I could get ten points a day through achievements, but I had to jump through many hoops to do it. It was a project.
Now, I can do just three achievements and I get ten points, every day. So far, nothing has been particularly onerous to me.
This gives me the freedom to do what I want the rest of the time. This change frees me up. Again, because of my emphasis on achievements, I sometimes didn’t have time to do everything I wanted. I have more time to do everything I want now.
Thank you. This is the kind of discussion from the opposite point of view that I’m looking for.
I’m not arguing that the new system is bad, but you’d still be just as free to do what you want if there were 8 options per mode, and you still only had to complete 3 to get the points.
I’m not at all against more options per mode. I’m quite happy to see people happy with the game.
What I think Anet was trying to do was stop everyone from just doing the absolute easiest daily in the absolute easiest way.
For example in the old dailies, if you got Shiverpeakes killer, Wayfarer foothills was packed. If you got vet slayer, tons of people went to Wayfarer as well, to the dolyaks and spiders in the North East corner.
It trivialized dailies. Now they are a bit more involved…but just a bit.
And the rewards you got for doing the easy old ones you get anyway…all except for the achievement points.
I know that people are used to and enjoy achievement points being given out for sneezing, but I don’t mind going a bit out of the way for an achievement…and so far, that’s all I’ve had to do.
The point is that it was up to the players to complete their dailies, if they wanted to, how they wanted to.
And your other points are invalidated by the latest improvements. Now, because of some of the dailies, certain map zones are flooded while others are proverbial ghost towns, an issue you claim was a problem before, which is more of one now.
And the achievement points is an issue with the new system, with this all or nothing approach, is to make it even harder for some people to get any achievement points. And some of them were ridiculous, but it is even more ridiculous to expect players with limited resources, be it computer and/or internet capabilities, and new players, to be able to tackle a world boss where your completion is based on damage done. If you cannot move because of slow comp/internet, you cannot even do enough damage to get event credit. End result (speaking from experience) is just frustration for time wasted when you could have been doing something useful, and completing events that actually would help progress for the dailies in the older system. With the massive limits on the percentage of dailies needed to complete, this type of an event shouldn’t be anywhere near the daily list, nor should fractals. If there were lots of choices to pick from, then that would again be up to the player if they did that or not. And with achievement points tied to each item, they could do the ones they were able to do and still get something. So you AP hunters don’t feel left out, and Anet feels the need to keep at least a part of this kittened up system, let it be 3 APs for each item up to the cap, and if they do the 3 required, let that one net them 4 APs to get the 10 total.
The choice issue actually has a lot to do with whether or not you’re actually an achievement hunter. Before I could get ten points a day through achievements, but I had to jump through many hoops to do it. It was a project.
Now, I can do just three achievements and I get ten points, every day. So far, nothing has been particularly onerous to me.
This gives me the freedom to do what I want the rest of the time. This change frees me up. Again, because of my emphasis on achievements, I sometimes didn’t have time to do everything I wanted. I have more time to do everything I want now.
The problem is that while that was what you chose to do, that was what YOU chose. Some of us are fine with not getting every single little achievement point every day by only doing the dailies and/or monthlies that we felt like. Now, due to the hassle of having to go all over the place to get them, instead of them happening naturally with how we were playing the game, some of us are now getting nothing for achievement points because of the all or nothing attitude that stinks with the skill point acquisition and even more so with the APs. You choosing to do more effort to get more achievement points is how it should work. You do more effort you get more reward for that effort. Now, it is just a hassle, and a pain in the kitten more than anything. It takes away enjoyment of the game for me and many others, because we are now being treated as if we are second class because we didn’t care about getting as many achievement points as some others.
Technically, before, you could only unlock your traits to use by paying gold to the trainer. Now, you can unlock them by either paying gold/SP or doing a task that costs you nothing but time.
So, technically, you have more choice now than before, as far as unlocking traits goes.
As well, there were 12 dailies to choose from before, and 12 dailies to choose from now. Same amount of choice on what dailies to do. As well, one can choose to get their 10 AP by never leaving PVP or WVW, while before they couldn’t always choose to do so.
There’s a difference between “less choice” and “making different choices”.
Unfortunately, this has been one of the typical, and incorrect, responses to everything about the dailies as well. I did the math before, from the actual options available and what you had to complete to get the chosen daily achievement, in regards to PvE which is what I play.
At the daily system before the one before this latest one, you had lets say 14 daily choice items to pick from 1 section, just PvE, just WvW, etc. , and had to do 5. I do not remember the exact total choices. But that ratio works out to approximately 35%. With the update before this one, you have the total choices available reduced to 10 within the chosen section, an increase in percentage of the total to 50%. With this last one, yes you only have to do 3, which most would say is less than 5. That is correct. But when you compare it to the available options of 4, some of which are not even reachable by some people on some of the days, the new percentage is 75%. So while it looks like you now have to do less, you have to actually complete a larger percentage of the available choices.
To those that are just saying, go to WvW or PvP, uhm, no. Just no. For whatever reason, that is not a choice to some of us. And many of you don’t even see that fighting for more choices applies to your part of the game as well, and would also benefit you, not hurt you. If the problem is limited choices in WvW and PvP, increase the available choices. Let the players decide what they want to do, and hold to the “play how you want to” idea.
This is going on since the release of the LS. They dont want to give us a choice because they either think we are way too stupid for this and/or its simply more efficient. More choices means more programing. And more programing means more costs for them. GW2 is a game now in which profit means more than anything to the publisher. And if they have to dumb the game down to achieve the maximum profit they will do so without second thought.
This might be a valid point, except for the fact that this programming was already in place as far as PvE goes. There were already lots of choices available within the daily and monthly system, before the first attempted forcing of players into other parts of the game (the update before this one to the dailies).
But as for the rest of it, I agree with the profit thing. However, driving players away is not the way to bring in more profit, but less. Because people that otherwise might have been willing to support a game they enjoyed will be driven away or else less enjoyment, which results in less encouragement to support it. End result, less income, the opposite of what I presume they are trying to achieve. New players aren’t the only source of income for a game like this, and they would do well to remember the players that are already here.
It all depends on your point of view.
For a player who is settled in their ways and activities, it’s less choice. The changes eliminated same things that I’ve been doing every night for the past year or more.
From ANet’s point of view, there is a much larger game world out there and types of play than the very focused, limited way some may be playing. To “encourage” those players to move out of their comfort zone, they may actually discover more of the game to have fun in than running paths, strip mining zones and boarding the boss train (toot-toot). They see it as showing players a greater range of options to play than so in their eyes it’s increasing choices a player is exposed too.
Problem with the second approach is that it assumes that players hadn’t tried those other activities and made an informed decision to do the ones they had been doing for the last year as the lesser of evils.
That is a part of my problem with their chosen method of encouragement. To me, they say “encourage”, but to me it seems more like an attempted forcing, by making the available “choices” so limited. Despite the result of their attempts, there are people who have tried other parts of the game and do not like them, and/or have zero interest in any other parts of the game, and this applies to the PvP and WvW group as well.
I have presented a reasonable solution to this that can actually be seen as actual encouragement, instead of the stick they seem to want to present. Cap the points achievable within a certain section, at 10, or whatever they decide. Then, if the player decides to try another section, allow them to again get up to that point limit from items within that new section. Open the limits back up on what we can do and where to what it was before the last “improvement” to the dailies, leave it more open ended as to what we do and where we do it. Even keep the region specific events and/or enemy mobs in there. Keep the 1 point per item instead of the all or nothing deal they have now. Let the people who do more earn more, even within just their chosen area of the game. Un"improve" the skill point and leveling system enough so that it is not the same way, only getting skill points in groups at certain levels, un"improve" the leveling system more by letting people learn the game in the starting area, not by removing and/or messing with almost everything there.
If the issue was not enough choices in WvW or PvP, then don’t strangle the choices in PvE to make it “fair”. That is what many people are already trying to do IRL with other stuff, to the detriment of everybody.
That seems to be their mindset across the board, not just with the festival dailies. You can play the way you want, as long as it is within the limits they are putting on you (as in play how they think you should.
The same issue has happened with the regular dailies. They have limited them as well, I am guessing in an attempt in their minds to encourage (I am reading it as force) people into trying other parts of the game. They have done this by choking the available options down to bare nothing.
As far as the bell thing goes, if you have any lag at all, which seems to be rampant again, not sure the reason, but you cannot even survive to the end of one song. While it might be easy for you, it is not the same for everybody. And the easy songs work that way as well. Get enough notes wrong, easy or hard song, and you are done, 1 more failed attempt at the daily. Sorry, 1 more frustrating failed attempt.
(edited by Lyssan.3768)
I feel like I should put it out there that if you feel as though you are being forced to do dailies, you may want to seek professional medical help as that is a sign of addiction, and that can ruin your life.
I want to be able to continue to play this game with you, and that can’t happen if your life spirals into the disease that is addiction.
I don’t feel that I am being forced to do dailies. In fact, given this last adjustment to them, I feel I am being strongly encouraged to NOT do them, at least not until they become reasonable again. What I DO feel forced to do is try other parts of the game that I have no interest in. I play a game for enjoyment, because I like to do it or not, as I choose, not to have the makers of the game try to tell me, well, you should go here, you should go there, and to (sorry, I still can’t even type this with a straight face) encourage you to do so, they take away more and more options from you.
I’m just going to sum up the ridiculous opposition here:
1. We don’t care that we’re getting rewarded more. That’s not the point.
2. We don’t care that it takes less time to get those greater rewards. That’s not the point.
3. We don’t care long-time marginalized groups benefit greatly from the changes (AP Hunters, PvPers, to a slightly lesser extent, WvWers). That’s not the point.So what’s the point?
1. We want to never be pushed outside our comfort zones. That’s the point.
2. We want to expend absolutely no additional effort in order to attain any daily achievements. They should come as a natural byproduct of what we happened to be doing anyway. That’s the point.
The point is that Anet gave us “Go to ‘insert map’ and do 4 events.” “Go to ‘insert map’ and view a vista.”
So tell me what’s wrong with the previous system? Why cant I do events at my current location. Why can’t I view that vista that’s just down the road.
My view on this new daily system is this:
Login rewards: Great, very nice.
3 dailies for 10 AP: Again, that’s great
Making me go to specific areas: Not so great.Honestly though, after thinking about it, it’s not that big of deal. Assuming Anet doesnt tweak (which is a VERY MINOR, simple tweak) the system in the future, we’ll all just simply adapt to it.
Your main qualm about the new system is that you maybe have to take a WP or an Asura gate or two…
Yea I’m just going to quote myself.
“2. We want to expend absolutely no additional effort in order to attain any daily achievements. They should come as a natural byproduct of what we happened to be doing anyway. That’s the point.”
Your godkitten right that’s my qualm. You ignored this though.
“So tell me what’s wrong with the previous system? Why cant I do events at my current location. Why can’t I view that vista that’s just down the road.”
That’s easy. The goal of the daily achievement system to expose players to different parts of the game. I imagine that’s the reason why they separated the laurels from it too, so that stubborn, whiny people who dislike anything new, different, or challenging would not find themselves terribly disadvantaged by more aggressive positioning of dailies.
There is an old adage that covers your reasoning fine here. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Or something like that, you get the concept, I hope.
You can encourage people to try other parts of the game with more options, not by choking out the available ones and by default, forcing them into other areas. This update is fail (for so many reasons besides this) for this reason alone.
forces them to do things that are out of the way
But this is where the whole “New dailies are stupid!”-idea falls apart:
The rewards are given just from logging in now.You are even less forced to do anything you don’t want to do than you were before. You got your rewards, now play whatever mode you enjoy. Or, if you fall into the target category of what daily quests are for, do things you normally didn’t do for the dailies (that’s the whole point, get people to play more varied).
I agree ANet usually does the 1-step-forward-2-back, but this feels like 3-forward. It even fixes the issue the previous system had after they made it so that the same achievements came up most days, in that there was 0 variety and hence 0 point caring.
Except for those of us who were not hardcore but still achievement point seekers before, and IMO, this is 3-5 steps back and only half a step forwards. As far as getting people to try other things, there are better ways to do it. Cap the area (PvE, WvW, PvP) daily points at X, and award more if they go to another area and do more daily items from that pile. More choices, FOR EVERYBODY, and less bullkitten specific daily items from all parts of the game.
People see me as a PvE player which is fine, I am. But my points apply to every part of the game. Some people are only PvP players, and I am fine with that. You can still encourage people to try other parts of the game without choking the hell out of their choices in their chosen area, basically what amounts to punishing them for only wanting to play their chosen part.
I personally was using the dailies for my alts exp.
Now logging in every day for 28 days gets you 10 levels worth of tomes. I suspect you can pick even more tomes with the 28th day bonus.
I have my issues with this change, but experience for your alts should be the least of your worries.
If you take the tomes you lose laurels compared to before.
Also I was using the XP for low level alts/keyfarming, where 1 daily achievement gave more than on high level.
And concerning the AP, as you already stated 5 are better than none.
On the other sides laurels are easier to get now and also additional rewards from the new dailies.
In the end the change has also downsides for me and I ask myself if that dev-time wouldn´t have been better spent on something else.
Doing the achievements still gives the same amount of exp (5%) but now in a consumable form which is account bound. You can just save these, give ’em to your lowbie and level up like that.
And here lies the one mildly useful thing about this entire fiasco, but if that is the price to pay for having to live with the rest of it, I don’t want it. The cost to get that is just too high.
what i dislike?well maybe dislike is a wrong word to say but i believe that the previous system was working fine.you could easily complete it really fast just by playing either pvp pve or wvw.
I thought the first daily system was okay after getting Karma Jugs appended to it. I was clearly mentally handicapped, because it kept getting tinkered with for the good of the players and I kept going “what the . . . why? It’s working . . .”
Can this be the last time the system gets overhauled? Pretty please?
Hopefully no, they need one more overhaul, and that is to put it back to how it worked before the kitten up just before this one. Where you got AP for ea daily item you completed, and if you completed more, you earned more.
I am sure it was like that for some but Underwater kills, kill variety, laurel vendor visiting, event mentoring, reviving, and others were all things I stopped doing what I wanted in order to complete.
And if we kept the old dailys and simply gave everyone 10 AP for completing 5 of them, I suspect most of the QQ in this thread would be gone.
I would still have an issue with it as it devalues earned items and things doing stuff like this, but I would be a kittenload less vocal about it. Nerfing (as it is called) something too much is not good either, as it takes away the feeling of accomplishment others who already earned it got from it. Specific case in point, various titles in GW1.
I’m just going to sum up the ridiculous opposition here:
1. We don’t care that we’re getting rewarded more. That’s not the point.
2. We don’t care that it takes less time to get those greater rewards. That’s not the point.
3. We don’t care long-time marginalized groups benefit greatly from the changes (AP Hunters, PvPers, to a slightly lesser extent, WvWers). That’s not the point.So what’s the point?
1. We want to never be pushed outside our comfort zones. That’s the point.
2. We want to expend absolutely no additional effort in order to attain any daily achievements. They should come as a natural byproduct of what we happened to be doing anyway. That’s the point.
The point is that Anet gave us “Go to ‘insert map’ and do 4 events.” “Go to ‘insert map’ and view a vista.”
So tell me what’s wrong with the previous system? Why cant I do events at my current location. Why can’t I view that vista that’s just down the road.
My view on this new daily system is this:
Login rewards: Great, very nice.
3 dailies for 10 AP: Again, that’s great
Making me go to specific areas: Not so great.Honestly though, after thinking about it, it’s not that big of deal. Assuming Anet doesnt tweak (which is a VERY MINOR, simple tweak) the system in the future, we’ll all just simply adapt to it.
Your main qualm about the new system is that you maybe have to take a WP or an Asura gate or two…
Yea I’m just going to quote myself.
“2. We want to expend absolutely no additional effort in order to attain any daily achievements. They should come as a natural byproduct of what we happened to be doing anyway. That’s the point.”
Your godkitten right that’s my qualm. You ignored this though.
“So tell me what’s wrong with the previous system? Why cant I do events at my current location. Why can’t I view that vista that’s just down the road.”
That’s easy. The goal of the daily achievement system to expose players to different parts of the game. I imagine that’s the reason why they separated the laurels from it too, so that stubborn, whiny people who dislike anything new, different, or challenging would not find themselves terribly disadvantaged by more aggressive positioning of dailies.
That’s your answer? So you imagined? Everyone that is doing world completion is already going around different parts of the world. By default, we’re exposing ourselves to different areas just by playing the game.
Try again.
“So tell me what’s wrong with the previous system? Why cant I do events at my current location. Why can’t I view that vista that’s just down the road.”
It’s not the same thing. When you make an area a daily, you draw a population of players into that area. Caledon Forest, for example, is not the same experience when there’s numerous people running about, as compared to you being the only person you’ve seen in the last 10 minutes. By making the dailies, “Go here,” they’re able to create a more community active experience. This is especially true for the “Do X events in Y Area” achievements, where you’ll actually find people interacting, calling out in map chat when they’ve found an event.
Which they had as a part of the more options before this kittenup. Shiverpeaks events, Maguuma veteran kills, etc. They were already a part of the rotation, just not every day.
Just look at the outrage that’s going on in this thread, and they actually made dailies -easier-.
I think that’s why people are miffed. ANet went and made the things annoying and specifically trivial so the whole activity feels like a grind. Combined with the NPE, it just makes it look like the game is going in a backwards direction.
The dailies were never particularly challenging. They were always trivial, and far more grindy than they are now. If anything, they just took the grind out of it.
Uhm, I am going to have to go ahead and disagree with you on the whole grindy issue here. (Office Space flashbacks anyone?) Get the achievements that I got just from playing the game sounds a whole lot less grindy than galevant all over the map to do specific dailies. The people who chose to do more of them made the grindy part happen, or not, on their own choice. So now somehow forcing everyone into less choice is supposed to be seen as better.
1. We want to never be pushed outside our comfort zones. That’s the point.
2. We want to expend absolutely no additional effort in order to attain any daily achievements. They should come as a natural byproduct of what we happened to be doing anyway. That’s the point.
You know what would push us outside of our comfort zones?
- Win an Arena match in PvP
- Capture a keep in WvW
- Successfully defend 4 objectives times in WvW
- Fully complete a map (home cities and LA excluded)
- Obtain a Pristine Fractal Relic
- Obtain 100 dungeon tokens
- Successfully complete a Breach event in the Silverwastes
- Defeat the Skritt Queen in Dry Top
- Defeat Tequatl or the Great Jungle Wurm (even Karka Queen if enough QQ)
- Complete a personal story arc
- Craft an exotic or ascended quality armor, weapon, or trinket
This is how you push players out of their comfort zones. Not “Come to this specific area and collect your special snowflake medal for showing up”.
I wouldn’t mind any of these. I wouldn’t necessarily do all of them, but I would not mind if this is what the dailies consisted of. I doubt A.Net could pull that off though, especially the more time consuming ones. Just look at the outrage that’s going on in this thread, and they actually made dailies -easier-.
More hassle going to specific areas and/or gathering specific event completions and/or materials, when you could complete the dailies just by playing how you chose to play, but that is easier. Uhm…no.
I would like to join in the “don’t like it” crowd. It’s too specific, too confining, having to do 3/4 options that are each very specific. No. For this new system to be functional, they need to either:
A. Vastly increase the amount of available achievements, instead of needing 3/4 it should be more like 3/6 or even 3/9 of these new options, giving you some flexibility to ignore more of the ones you might have zero interest in doing.
OR
B. Greatly expand the flexibility of each achievement. Instead of “Kill the Jungle Wurm,” make it “kill any World Boss.” Instead of “Harvest 4 plants in Maguuma Jungle,” make it “Harvest 20 things, anywhere you like.”
You have a choice.It is 3 out of 12.Before PvE had 6 PvP and WvW x2 each.Which was unbalanced.Now each category as x4 so it is much more equal.Now there are a lot more choices than before.Yes PvE dailies are changed a bit but the WvW and PvP are improved a lot.
Before i had to do 5 dailies for full reward and if you were a complitonist you had to do all the dailies.Now i have to do only 3 achievements for full 10AP.That is alot more than the previous daily AP reward.
Also by spliting the daily on 2(one reward for loging and another for the dailies is great),removing the 1AP per daily is a good decision.Because i don’t feel forced to farm to much.
Actually, before they had ones you are labeling as part of the PvE that could be completed in WvW and PvP, and this coming directly from Anet, so that you could complete your dailies in your chosen area. I do not remember the specific article, but I remember reading it one of the few times I read the release notes.
As far as the 1AP per daily, that left it up to you how many you felt like farming. The more work you put in, the more points you got.
Never saw so many selfish and self centered people in one place like there are in this “discussion” – on both sides.
For all of you attacking people whose “world is broken” because of daily system change, one day Anet will change part of game you like in manner it will be broken for you in same manner this change broke part of game these people like and there won’t be anyone to sympathize with you because they were all “chased away” by other “negative changes” done by Anet or by your highly toxic responds to their more or less valid thoughts about this or other changes.
Same can be applied to people who attack those who like this change, don’t attack them for liking this change even if their posts are highly toxic, just don’t do it, there is report button for a reason – use it if they were toxic/offensive but don’t abuse it.
You should be all ashamed, this is game and we are supposed to have fun here, not to use it to build up our own insecure egos by attacking others just because their opinions differ from ours, leave that out of this place, we should be able to take a break from such things here, thank you.
I don’t attack the person, I attack the logic (mostly the total lack of it).
Keep in mind everyone, that one of the WvW dailies doesn’t require you to fight players at all. Most achievement hunters have some badges of honor hanging around.
Go into WvW, you’re perfectly safe in your base, and spend a few laurels. Takes a minutes. Then you only need 2 dailies.
Except those people who (for whatever reason) choose to not do WvW, and are not less of a person or player than anybody else for not wanting to.
All except newer players should have some Badges of Honor unless you spent them all. The AP chests have Badges of Honor in them.
Doesn’t require any real playing of WvW to do so.
Not talking about any real playing, talking about not even going there at all, which even if they did get some WvW badges from PvE rewards still negates having to go to WvW to spend them, unless there is another way I am not aware of.
Then I honestly have no sympathy for you if you’re not willing to hop over to WvW to buy something worth 25 badges of honor and instead choose to do the daily option which you knew beforehand would take you a few hours to do. What else are you going to spend them on? You obviously don’t do fractals often so the Ascended gear you can with them is useless as you likely have what you need for the levels you do (you’ve obviously done them 11 times at least given what I heard in chat in game). I highly doubt dungeons as well so you wouldn’t get the boost there to add to your DPS contribution. So I don’t see why the aversion to spending the Badges of Honor and then deleting the thing you bought or consuming it if it’s a consumable.
It requires absolutely 0 amount of actually doing WvW. And I can see why you wouldn’t want to do the others as they involve actually playing. WvW isn’t everyone’s cup of tea. But spending Badges of Honor you’d otherwise never spend isn’t something that can be excused with the same excuse.
You chose to not do the quick ones and put yourself into the situation where it took you 3 hours to do the Daily.
It still requires someone to go to WvW, which is more WvW than some people care to do. And your reasoning is the same lame argument as before, basically amounts to “shut up and do it” and that somehow people who choose the parts of the game they want to play should be made to feel like less of a player because it is different than you.
And thank you for making our point for us, it was their choice to make for themselves. If they did the quick ones that took 10 seconds or 2 hours, it was THEIR CHOICE.
Also, can we please stop with the “LOLNEWPLAYERTRYINGTOGETTOSILVERWASTE” argument? You don’t need to go to Silverwaste to complete the daily for a newplayer, because a newplayer only needs to complete 1 of the achievements to get credit. That could be looking at a vista, or gathering some wood.
Of the two achieves that you could possibly do as a low level character, each was set in a specific map that many lowbies might not have and might not even be feasible for them to get to if they’re just starting out. Having only four very specific tasks for PvE dailies is incredibly restricting any way you look at it. Yeah, you can supplement with PvP or WvW, but why build a system that forces players into content? They should discover and experience those aspects of the game at their own pace. It seems like a lot of the adventure and discovery of the game has disappeared, only to be replaced with ANet’s heavy handed attempts to shepherd us through areas of the game that they feel need more traffic.
And honestly, that’s what bugs me the most: that I’m being coerced into something. I can even ignore the dailies, to be honest, but its the login rewards that have me eyeing the uninstall option. I mean, getting former daily rewards, that required actual effort… just for logging in? It just feels like a ploy to boost logins, and I really don’t want to be a part of it.
…What are you talking about? A level 1 player can both gather wood in Kryta (Queensdale) and look at a Vista in Ascalon (Plains of Ashford, or even Black Citadel). And a new, level 1 player, only needs to complete 1 item from the entire list to receive the 10AP.
If they’re human or charr… or figure out to use the gate system in their home city.
There’s always google, or the wiki, but I’d recommend you do a little experiment instead. Stand in any starter zone or town, and type in mapchat, “I’m new, how do I get to Kryta?” Then tell us how long it takes for someone to tell you, or even show you the way.
If I have to leave the game to search the web, or another player has to lead me through content to show me how it works, then that aspect of your game has failed. And here ANet has failed.
It completely breaks immersion. Not only that, but expecting low level characters to schlep all the way across Tyria to gather wood for a daily just seems ridiculously awkward. Talk about not playing how you want. Why can’t I gather materials in the area I’m progressing through now?
Asking for assistance from other players in a multiplayer game “breaks immersion?” Do you play this game like it’s a single player game?
Googling as per your adviced, alt-tab out, does break immersion. Asking for help from other players ingame, does not.
Sure, but the point is you shouldn’t need extra direction just to complete a daily. And it still doesn’t address the inconvenience. I would add that having to jump to a different starter zone would break immersion as well for some players.
You’re stretching there and you know it. I didn’t even know the dailies existed until I was well into the 20s and 30s on my first character, but had I known about it, I would not feel bad about having someone give me a tour of Tyria starter zones to get it, and I doubt many new players would either.
And yet, you probably still completed at least 1 or 2 daily items, and maybe even as much as an entire days worth to get the achievements without even knowing in, in spite of yourself. Some players prefer to find things out for themselves. I know it is a wild concept, but not everyone is exactly like you. Different people have different views of things.
Bluntly, more options benefits more people. A system that rewards more effort with more points is better, not worse. This is now not either one of those.
I’m just going to sum up the ridiculous opposition here:
And I in return will once again refute your actually ridiculous points (where applicable).
1. We don’t care that we’re getting rewarded more. That’s not the point.
Actually, that is one of my points. Less effort to earn those points means those points have less value now than before. You do more effort you get more points under the old system. I have not looked into the new system that deeply as I have chosen to spend more time posting here than I have doing restrictive dailies that I have lost almost any desire to do now.
2. We don’t care that it takes less time to get those greater rewards. That’s not the point.
Slightly off on this one as well. Some yes and some no. It is not my main argument, never has been. If it takes more or less time than before is up for debate as this mostly depends on the play style of the person doing them. There have been days where I was able to get 8 or so daily items (on the old system) done on my three accounts within an hour, if I chose to put the effort in to do so. The time spent, if being based only on people who have the areas already would most likely be less if they knew where to go already from playing the game.
3. We don’t care long-time marginalized groups benefit greatly from the changes (AP Hunters, PvPers, to a slightly lesser extent, WvWers). That’s not the point.
I have never had an issue with people benefiting, unless it was at the expense of others, which is the case here. And technically AP hunters both benefit and suffer from this. See my above note about reduced value of rewards.
So what’s the point?
The point, before, now, and still is leave the choice of what to do up to the player.
1. We want to never be pushed outside our comfort zones. That’s the point.
That is up to the person to decide for themselves. Less options takes that choice away from the person, which is my point. Me personally, I have no interest in certain parts of the game. And for me, I play a game because I enjoy it. If I stop enjoying something that I do for recreation, then I will stop doing that event, or in this case, game. Life is for being pushed out of your comfort zone or not, not a game, unless it is the choice of the person.
Nice desperation reach trying to use this point, by the way.
2. We want to expend absolutely no additional effort in order to attain any daily achievements. They should come as a natural byproduct of what we happened to be doing anyway. That’s the point.
That is why it is a reward for playing the game. Those people who put in the extra effort to earn more points by doing more effort deserve more reward than those that put less effort in. That is what ties the reward level to the effort being put into it. I (and here is the operative word) earn less AP points than some people because I do less than they do, BUT I STILL EARN AP POINTS, because I was doing things that awarded me those points for the things I did.
Guess the ball is back in your court again.
I for one do not appreciate the efforts Anet has made to try to force me and others into other parts of the game, starting with, I believe, requiring the WvW maps to be done for 100% map completion.
Anet has made not one single effort to force you into anything. Ever.
Requiring the WvW maps as part of the world map completion, removing choices (twice now) from the dailies list. They call it encouraging people to try other parts of the game, I call it by the name it should be called by, attempted forcing. But technically you are correct, they are also not forcing me to play a game that I used to enjoy more, but less so now because they are repeatedly removing more and more choices.
And you also lose the laurels you would have otherwise earned by choosing to get those tomes
And I assure you, over the course of many months (where you can mix up your choice of tomes and laurels), you’ll get at least the same amount of both. Additionally, not getting achievements for gathering, events, etc, does not prevent you from doing so and getting the experience anyways.
Seriously, why are you arguing with me when it should be crystal clear what my general opinion of these changes are?
I simply pointed out that mathematically the guy is not losing exp by not being able to do the full daily on his alt, and in fact may even gain more in the long run.
Wasn’t arguing, was stating a point of view. But apparently people who have different points of view are automatically “arguing”. And my post was meant as a support to your side as it seems to be the same as mine on many of the points.
Also, can we please stop with the “LOLNEWPLAYERTRYINGTOGETTOSILVERWASTE” argument? You don’t need to go to Silverwaste to complete the daily for a newplayer, because a newplayer only needs to complete 1 of the achievements to get credit. That could be looking at a vista, or gathering some wood.
Of the two achieves that you could possibly do as a low level character, each was set in a specific map that many lowbies might not have and might not even be feasible for them to get to if they’re just starting out. Having only four very specific tasks for PvE dailies is incredibly restricting any way you look at it. Yeah, you can supplement with PvP or WvW, but why build a system that forces players into content? They should discover and experience those aspects of the game at their own pace. It seems like a lot of the adventure and discovery of the game has disappeared, only to be replaced with ANet’s heavy handed attempts to shepherd us through areas of the game that they feel need more traffic.
And honestly, that’s what bugs me the most: that I’m being coerced into something. I can even ignore the dailies, to be honest, but its the login rewards that have me eyeing the uninstall option. I mean, getting former daily rewards, that required actual effort… just for logging in? It just feels like a ploy to boost logins, and I really don’t want to be a part of it.
…What are you talking about? A level 1 player can both gather wood in Kryta (Queensdale) and look at a Vista in Ascalon (Plains of Ashford, or even Black Citadel). And a new, level 1 player, only needs to complete 1 item from the entire list to receive the 10AP.
If they’re human or charr… or figure out to use the gate system in their home city.
There’s always google, or the wiki, but I’d recommend you do a little experiment instead. Stand in any starter zone or town, and type in mapchat, “I’m new, how do I get to Kryta?” Then tell us how long it takes for someone to tell you, or even show you the way.
If I have to leave the game to search the web, or another player has to lead me through content to show me how it works, then that aspect of your game has failed. And here ANet has failed.
It completely breaks immersion. Not only that, but expecting low level characters to schlep all the way across Tyria to gather wood for a daily just seems ridiculously awkward. Talk about not playing how you want. Why can’t I gather materials in the area I’m progressing through now?
Not to mention that Anet has had the wonderful idea of removing ALL of the gathering nodes from the starter/low level area of all of the races’ starter maps.
For those of you arguing that the new system is more restrictive, why do you feel compelled to do the dailies at all? This is a serious question by the way. You’re obviously not AP hunters, as AP hunters have been begging for a change like this for years. Why can you not simply forgo the daily achievements?
Because it’s fun to have a target when playing game, AP is one of them. Hence, i want to have fun while hunting for AP.
The problem with new system is: it is restrictive, which suck the fun out of it.So… you want to “Hunt AP” while doing absolutely nothing outside of your norm? That’s not hunting, that’s being spoonfed.
What are you smoking? On the contrary, this new system actually more synonymous with your “spoonfed” term. Log in do nothing for rewards, do less, more restriction for more rewards.
You have to do and can do more things while hunting for AP on old system. You can choose where and how to complete them. Dungeons, WvW, spvp, fractals, roaming world event. It certainly not spoonfed and more flexible.
Do I really need to go back and quote how many times you and Lyssan said it takes you 0 minutes of effort because you’re just doing your own thing and happen to get the AP under the old system?
I never said that it takes 0 effort, and I have seen others actually say it takes 0 extra effort because they were doing them already, but somehow you getting more points for doing less work (playing the game even as we choose to DOES count as effort and actually earning the points we get) instead of just getting them, how was it you worded it elsewhere? Oh yes “spoonfed” to you.
Wow people are really defending this change… I didn’t realize the game had sunk so low that something like this is actually defensible….
Same could be said about those against the change.
Yea, except I think the common sense view says that taking away options (which Anet has now done twice to the daily achievements) is usually less desirable than adding more options, or in some cases leaving the available options alone. So the “same thing could be said about those against the change” part really doesn’t hold up.
Oh, that and the fact that people are in here spending so much time complaining about the kittenup Anet did to the dailies instead of working on those dailies, because they now suck, should tell you something. And yes I did try the new dailies system.
The only part about the opposition to the new system that I agree with is that it took away options. However, I believe that the 10 AP by doing just 3 achievements, and that they’re quicker to do, more than make up for it.
People complain for various reasons. Many people have complained without even trying it. Other people complain just to complain. Just because people complain doesn’t mean that it’s inherently a bad update. People are more likely to complain than praise.
Quicker to do, like getting to level 80 to get to be able to survive Silverwastes? That’s quicker how again?
I am not complaining just to complain, I am complaining with specific points listed, and just because some people are defending this doesn’t automatically make it a good update either.
Also, as far as the less likely to praise, as I posted elsewhere, if you see something wrong and don’t say anything, that mus mean that you are OK with it. If I see something worthy of praise, I will do so, and have done here and in map chat. Some of the improvements they have done were actual improvements. Wardrobe skins and acct wide dyes are a portion, though even things with that need to still be fixed.
I’m not talking about new players. Only a small percentage of the player base doesn’t have at least one level 80.
More options benefits more players, period. Doesn’t matter what level chars they have or how many or how long they have been playing.
Doing less work to get more rewards (all 10 AP at once like it is with the new system) devalues those rewards despite many repeated (and failed) attempts by the people who are OK with this system to say otherwise.
Those are my two basic and main complaints with this latest kittenup of the daily system. It is more of the all-or-nothing type of argument that many of you are using to support your views of this.
For those of you arguing that the new system is more restrictive, why do you feel compelled to do the dailies at all? This is a serious question by the way. You’re obviously not AP hunters, as AP hunters have been begging for a change like this for years. Why can you not simply forgo the daily achievements?
Because it’s fun to have a target when playing game, AP is one of them. Hence, i want to have fun while hunting for AP.
The problem with new system is: it is restrictive, which suck the fun out of it.So… you want to “Hunt AP” while doing absolutely nothing outside of your norm? That’s not hunting, that’s being spoonfed.
And only doing 3 things to get 10 points isn’t when you had to do 10 things to get those points before. Stop trying to use that to justify your view of it, because it just has no value. In fact, it kind of helps the side of the discussion we are on. I take it back, keep using it and helping to hurt your side.
I guess you missed where I posted that I was doing the dailies for the exp on my alts, you know, not level 80 yet. Due to the NPE grind. And that I absolutely detest PvP. And prior to this fiasco, it didn’t matter what level you character was at, you could complete the PvE dailies.
Isn’t the exp gained from dailies more or less negligible? Login rewards give 10 free levels via Tomes of Knowledge on the 27th login. Not a bad trade-off, imo.
Which I could have gotten more than that before from doing dailies, and exploring in the area if I didn’t have it yet and the daily called for it, and events, and running around with guildies who were also working on a new char, and didn’t have all the areas yet. So yea, getting less instead of more IS a bad trade off.
- Exploring an area
- Events
-Running around with guildiesWhich of these are you no longer able to do?
The easier possibility of getting achievement points while doing those, which you conveniently left out of that list.
I definitely agree that the choices feel restrictive, hopefully they tweak them a bit for future dailies. Overall I think players will be satisfied, as this change is exactly what a lot of us asked for.
I sure as kitten didn’t ask for this change. And I was too busy playing the game to lurk on the forums everyday to even see if they asked us. Because I would have been thoroughly against this change.
I think some of you are missing the forest for the trees, so to speak. At worst, if one absolutely does not want to complete the dailies, they’ll lose out on 10 AP. Not a big whoop either way.
On the other hand, we’re getting loads of amazing stuff just for showing up!
Seriously, you just log in and collect stuff. How are you guys not psyched about this?
Uhm, because it devalues the actually earned items that people actually did work to earn? It is like you scrimping and saving and spending your hard earned money on a kick kitten one of a kind car you special ordered, then 2 days later, your next door neighbor has the exact same car and they only paid like $100 for it.
At worst before, if people actively tried to achieve the dailies before or not, they earned probably 1-2 to maybe as many as enough for the daily achievement by doing nothing other than what they were going to do anyway. Where as now, they would be missing out, as you said, on the entire 10 AP. IDK about you, but me personally, I am perfectly fine with getting 1-2 achievement points over none at all.
To me, more options in this game is a better idea than less, and I for one do not appreciate the efforts Anet has made to try to force me and others into other parts of the game, starting with, I believe, requiring the WvW maps to be done for 100% map completion.
Correction: If you were only getting 1-2 AP before, then you’re ahead now, because while you’re not getting 1-2 AP anymore, you’re getting laurels, as well as the other stuff in the track.
So I should be happy with getting basically kittened out of the 1-2 achievement points I got from doing stuff I enjoyed from the dailies before, because now I can go through all this hassle and bullkitten to get even more? Oh great, why couldn’t we have had all this wonderful not fun way of doing things earlier?
Also, can we please stop with the “LOLNEWPLAYERTRYINGTOGETTOSILVERWASTE” argument? You don’t need to go to Silverwaste to complete the daily for a newplayer, because a newplayer only needs to complete 1 of the achievements to get credit. That could be looking at a vista, or gathering some wood.
Fair enough, but given the style of the restrictions (both geo and item) that seem to be the case on the PvE dailies, I am reasonably sure that sooner or later they will have a situation where to be able to complete even that one thing, they will not be able to do it. Isn’t it much better to not even have a chance of that happening over the very real possibility that it could occur? There are no guarantees that these dailies will every single day have that as the only options.
The point before, as now, still stands. More options benefits more players. And I am not just talking about expanding the choices for just one aspect of the game, I mean all of them, PvP and WvW included.
Just gonna repeat this:
@Lyssan
What purpose do you believe daily achievements should serve, if any?
1. rewards
2. get players to playThe problem is not with 1 but with 2.
Sure it’s quicker. More rewards for more restriction and less fun.
It’s awful.Given that aside from AP, you actually get more rewards now just for showing up (laurels, and everything else in the 28 day track), without needing to complete any of the dailies, you could play EXACTLY the way you would have pre-patch and still be as well off if not better off than you were prepatch?
Perhaps you couldn’t read or something, like many said, it’ not about the reward. It’a bout how you get that reward. Being forced to certain area to complete dailies to get more ap ==> less fun, even if it’s quicker.
Perhaps you couldn’t read or something, my point is that even if you just showed up every day and did the things you liked, ignored the things you didn’t, sometimes get the daily, sometimes not, because of the more generous rewards that you get just for showing up, you are still coming out ahead compared to where you would be under the old system playing exactly the same way.
Lol keep drinking the koolaid. You are the one who can’t read. You still insisting and talking about rewards. It’s not about coming out ahead on rewards comparing to previous system.
It’s about CHOICES and HOW YOU GET THAT REWARDS.
It is certainly more restrictive and less fun now albeit far quicker and more rewards.If it’s not about the rewards, why can’t you ignore the rewards and play the way you like while still passively receiving them anyway?
That is the point, you DON’T just passively receive the same as before. Before, passively by your incorrect definition, I received varying number of achievement points just by playing how I wanted to. Now, because of the all or nothing approach using the stick of severely restricting both the quantity available and the conditions (location, item, etc) required to get those same rewards that before I just got from playing the game before how I chose to.
This argument is not as simple as the all or nothing approach Anet took with the dailies, and it is not all just about the rewards or all just about the ease (by a limited number of people) of getting the dailies done.
For those of you arguing that the new system is more restrictive, why do you feel compelled to do the dailies at all? This is a serious question by the way. You’re obviously not AP hunters, as AP hunters have been begging for a change like this for years. Why can you not simply forgo the daily achievements?
Because apparently the people who were doing the dailies by default for their less than 10 or 12 or whatever the daily cap was apparently don’t count, and the fact that they might have been interested in getting achievement points, although at a slower pace than some others apparently doesn’t mean kitten. Guess what, even though I might not be an AP hunter by your definition, I DID get achievement points for the daily items I completed, the monthlies I completed, and the specificaly(sp?) named ACHIEVEMENT POINTS. So to me, and to others I am sure, getting some achievement points is obviously better than getting none.
How about this change just for the PvE-only players that want to opt to the older system.
You get 10 achievements that award 1 AP each. All of the instant completion achievements are removed such as the karma and laurel ones.
I was okay up to this point.
Those really aren’t PvE anyway since you just talk to an NPC. If you do all 10 of these achievements through your normal play then okay but if not, you’re SOL.
…annnnnnd now you’re back at it again with your black-and-white, all-or-nothing BS.
Why should you get the same benefits as those willing to try other areas of the game? What you’re getting is exactly the old system. The only things you’re not getting is the completion for doing 5 daily achievements which were moved to the login reward system.
Besides, in the old system there was only 8 PvE achievements so you’re actually benefiting with the additional 2 PvE achievements.
IDK about how anyone else feels on this, but I already covered this. I am aware that there are people who WILL go ahead and do more of the dailies, to achieve that max possible for the day. Let me say it again in another way, I AM FINE WITH PEOPLE WHO DO MORE THAN I DO GETTING MORE REWARD FOR THEIR MORE EFFORT. I never said I wanted the same benefits as them, but now somehow you want the same max level as someone else who was doing more work for them with less work, and yet we are the ones who are wrong with this.
“What we are getting is the old system?” No chance in hell, this is nothing like the old system. If they kept the choice for the player to do what they wanted to for their “daily achievement” even if they made it less total quantity that would be closer, but it still wouldn’t be the old system. Do you think this would be anywhere near as much of an issue if the players had choice and didn’t have Anet constantly kittening with stuff to encourage people to try other parts of the game?
There are still 12 choices… not choosing something is not the same thing as no choice.
The old system had 2 PvP, 2WvW and 6 PvE ones.Now it’s 4 of each.
PvE players had a lot of choices… People in PvP and WvW had none.Now it’s 4 of each which brings the different mode on more equal footing.The new system gives you 10AP for 3, plus additional rewards, plus a reward for just logging on. There is 4 PvE related dailys that are slighly more specific, you don’t have to step out of PvE to get your daily and you get more rewards.
12 choices from PvE to 4 choices from PvE IS less choice, no matter how you try to work it to make sense, just as 12 choices from PvP to 4 choices from PvP is less choice. A more generic “gather any 20 things (obviously mats here)” to “gather 5 wood” is less choice as well.
Just gonna repeat this:
@Lyssan
What purpose do you believe daily achievements should serve, if any?
1. rewards
2. get players to playThe problem is not with 1 but with 2.
Sure it’s quicker. More rewards for more restriction and less fun.
It’s awful.Given that aside from AP, you actually get more rewards now just for showing up (laurels, and everything else in the 28 day track), without needing to complete any of the dailies, you could play EXACTLY the way you would have pre-patch and still be as well off if not better off than you were pre-patch.
So the people who, like me, used the daily items to help with leveling alt chars should now be happy that they have less choices on doing that, less total line items that they would get experience from, so I am not seeing the “well off if not better off” side you claim is there.
Just gonna repeat this:
@Lyssan
What purpose do you believe daily achievements should serve, if any?
You apparently asked again before I had a chance to respond to the first one I guess. Read my post answering your question the first time.
Exactly what would you lose if you did not do the daily achievement period? It takes much less time to get 10 AP than it did before the update. AP is the only reward now for doing the 3 dailies as the laurels and random gem store items got moved to the daily login reward system. If you did not go out of your way before to get all of the AP prior to the update, it’s reasonable safe to assume that AP is not really that important to you. Especially that it seems a lot of people liked to casually play the game doing their own thing and get the AP as they played rather than do tasks that directly rewarded the AP.
If don’t care about the AP you get from doing the daily, why are you doing it? If you do care about the AP from the daily, why didn’t you farm them all before the update?
Doing the daily before the update would reward 5 AP as you did 5 achievements that awarded 1 AP each. Now, you can do 3 achievements and get 10 AP. You do a fraction of the achievements that you had to do before and quite a number of those achievements are actually easier and quicker to do than they were before.
That’s some pretty ridiculous black-and-white strawman you’ve got.
He got 5-8 with his “normal play”, and now that same normal play gets him 0. Are you really trying to tell him he has no right to complain about grind since he didn’t grind beyond his normal play before?
Before: 10 achievements = 10 AP
Now: 3 achievements = 10 APWhich one is better? Hmmm….
The achievements take 10 minutes at most to do enough for your daily. The only reward now for doing the daily is AP. If you didn’t care enough to go out of your way (even just a little) to get the other AP before the update, then why does the AP even matter now?
Before, I didn’t care if I didn’t get 10 AP, so STILL using that as an argument STILL has no validity.
Before = getting how ever many achievement points from playing how I wanted to, be it zero, one, two, or whatever
Now = I get none because of the hassle of dealing with overly restrictive and specific daily items, because it is now an all or nothing deal.
The reason it matters now is because I AM NOT GETTING ANY AP, WHEN BEFORE I WAS. Why is it you have so much trouble seeing this?
Which one is better? Hmmm….
Getting a choice of what dailies I do, if I choose to do them from playing how I like to play and possibly getting less achievement points in the process than the entire 10. Some is better than none.
@Lyssan
What purpose do you believe daily achievements should serve, if any?
Edit: Also, new players only need to complete one achievement for the daily. That’s literally walking into Queensdale and chopping down a few trees.
This time around, and if that is actually the case that they only need to do 1 to get the daily achievement, then they really are kittening up the earned value.
I believe that dailies should be an added benefit to game play, that the 1 point per daily item was fine. If people choose to earn more than others, that is their choice to make, and they should be rewarded appropriately. Just as in most jobs, if you work more hours, you get a bigger paycheck at the end of the week.
I do feel that this all or nothing attitude about them is not good, that the artificially limiting restrictions that Anet is putting on both the quantity available to select from, and the specifics of the individual items is ridiculous. A map boss item like fire ele or shadow behemoth has no place on the list ever. Making a high level area such a large percentage of the available options should not ever be done as well, specifically the Silverwastes on today’s.
Region of Orr has been on there before, true. However, there were more than enough available to be done elsewhere that that never became an issue for new players. Anet can, and should (if they feel the need), cap the earnable achievement points per calendar period, be it day or month, but open up both the quantity of options available, and the specific items themselves more, and let the players decide what it is they want to do.
If they want to encourage people to play other parts of the game, allow them to earn more past that cap if it is from a different area of the game. Just for numbers let’s say 8 total daily points from PvE, but if they go to WvW, then they could earn possibly up to another 8 points, and so on.
But I do think that the easier earning of achievement points and the restrictions on how many and what specifics have to be done in PvE, and possibly the other ones too, I don’t play them, need to be removed.
Exactly what would you lose if you did not do the daily achievement period? It takes much less time to get 10 AP than it did before the update. AP is the only reward now for doing the 3 dailies as the laurels and random gem store items got moved to the daily login reward system. If you did not go out of your way before to get all of the AP prior to the update, it’s reasonable safe to assume that AP is not really that important to you. Especially that it seems a lot of people liked to casually play the game doing their own thing and get the AP as they played rather than do tasks that directly rewarded the AP.
If don’t care about the AP you get from doing the daily, why are you doing it? If you do care about the AP from the daily, why didn’t you farm them all before the update?
Doing the daily before the update would reward 5 AP as you did 5 achievements that awarded 1 AP each. Now, you can do 3 achievements and get 10 AP. You do a fraction of the achievements that you had to do before and quite a number of those achievements are actually easier and quicker to do than they were before.
That’s some pretty ridiculous black-and-white strawman you’ve got.
He got 5-8 with his “normal play”, and now that same normal play gets him 0. Are you really trying to tell him he has no right to complain about grind since he didn’t grind beyond his normal play before?
I think their complaint is basically “why don’t you see things the same way I do?” and “you are stupid for not seeing it my way”. I do not have anything against how they want to play, it is fine for them, not for me is all.
Oh. I just did the daily (3 achievements) and finished it in 2.5 minutes. Such a grind and out of my way.
I did:
- Ascalon Vista
- Krytan Gatherer
- Badge of Honor Spender
I’m sure there may have been quicker ones. The PvP point capturer one would probably have been quicker than the lumber/gather one.
Good for you. Some people do not do WvW or PvP, so now they are supposed to feel like less of a player than you because they don’t want to do those areas? New players can get to (and survive) in Silverwastes to get the PvE daily for that to make their 3? No come back? Oh wait, that’s right, they don’t count because they have a different view than you do.
That, and new players might not have all of the areas explored where they can get to all the needed areas or even know how to get to the needed areas for that, while before, just doing the personal story stuff, or exploring the starter map their char is on now, they could have done the 5 dailies before without even knowing about it.
Why confine yourself to one area simply because they’re labeled as PvE achievements? You want more options when the other modes of the game have plenty. The focal point of the daily system was to get people to try new things. Many non-PvE achievements actually require less effort and time than the PvE achievements. If you want to pigeon-hole yourself to just PvE achievements then that’s your own prerogative but you can’t blame anyone else but yourself for being stubborn and not trying out the other achievements.
I have no interest in the other areas of the game, and I know that limits my choices, but that is my choice to make for myself. Once again, trying to force someone into another area of the game they do not want to play is not “more options” when taking away the options they did have in their chosen area of play is being done, it is still less options. I am not blaming anyone else but me for me not choosing to try other areas of the game I have no interest in, I am blaming Anet for totally kittening up what was the available options before in an effort to force people into other areas of the game.