Showing Posts For Maliss.1248:
Five out of seven days are spent karma training where the zergs try to avoid each other and take undefended objectives. The other two days you get to sit in queue for hours on end hoping to get in before the commander you want to follow logs off. If you do manage to actually get in and a big fight starts up you get to deal with skill lag.
If none of what I said bothers you WvW might be for you.
Why are players rewarded for NOT fighting each other in WvW? (topic title had to be truncated to fit the 45 character restriction)
I haven’t been able to find a good fight the past few days because people want to “karma train” rather than engage the enemy. Commanders are giving orders not to defend or do anything that might provoke the enemy. Two weeks ago I joined the karma train and gained more than 80 ranks in a day so I understand why players are eager to do it, since that is far more than I can gain in 2 weeks of actually fighting the enemy.
The vast majority of this game is PvE where players have no option to fight each other, can’t we get a reward structure in WvW that encourages players fighting each other rather than avoiding each other?
Problem was, if you had been playing several characters, you had bonus chests rotting on those toons, until you leveled them enough to get all your bonus chests. I’m hoping, this change means, all your bonus chests on all your toons still outstanding get pooled and whatever character next scores a WXP level gets in a bonus level chest.
At least, this would be nice…
Correct just make sure to log in all your alts with WvW chests pending to add them to the “pool”.
WvW bonus chests are now account bound rather than character specific. This is totally immersion breaking my Warrior did not earn an additional 80 bonus chests and ruins any sort of progression I was feeling.
/sarcasm off
Disgusted by this response. Currently with over 1100 world ability points it would take someone that plays an hour a day you over 3 years before the treadmill ends for one profession. If you wanted to play all the professions it will take over 4 years if you farmed WvW 8 hours a day.
I also think that the trait points should have a massive account pool, that you can put into seperate characters to trait them in different and various ways.
Although I now see the problem of having very few points to distribute if you play say 5 or 6 chars instead of 2 or 3, however i guess that is your choice, but I think this would be a fair tradeoff for having the WvW rank account bound.
I’d prefer it if the WvW abilities were account wide (when you unlock it, it applies to all of your characters). If the points were in a pool that you doled out to your characters as you saw fit I’d still feel forced to play one character as I would give my main character all the points and running an alt would be like running around without my armor on, yes I can contribute, but I’m far from optimal.
Don’t like the idea of a cap I’ve played too many games where my friends disappear after hitting some artificial cap. I prefer the account bound option instead. Although a low cap is better than the current situation.
I’ve always enjoyed World PvP since my first exposure to it in Asheron’s Call. I play GW2 to WvW. Since the introduction of WXP I find it harder and harder to log in and enjoy myself in game.
Why? I have 8 level 80 characters, one of each profession, that I used to like playing in WvW. Now with the new never ending progression system I feel like I can only play one of them in WvW and any time spent on an alt is time wasted. Since I’m currently tired of playing my main and it would take me several months to catch an alt up to where my main is so I can start “making progress again”, I feel very little desire to log in my alts and thus when I’m bored of my main I don’t play.
I know they are speeding up the rate of WXP in the next patch, so it may only take weeks instead of months to catch another character up to my main but that doesn’t really solve the underlying problem.
lol hmm pvt gear no food and no damage increase utilities and pulling off 20k hb and 16k killshots. unlikely unless the ppl you were attacking were lvl 1’s.
PVT armor, not gear. I was running full ruby trinkets and divinity runes. Rifle was PVT but Great Sword was zerker.
I have no idea what level they were but I was consistently getting those numbers on Keep lords as well as players. Should note this was all in a zerg so I’m sure I was getting buffs and my targets were getting debuffed.
Banner of Discipline gives 170 precision and 15% crit damage, 25+ blast finishers along with permanent swiftness and fury for a group.
I hope you realize how preposterous you make that comparison.
Why because I used facts?
Because Banner =/= 25 blast finishers under any viable circumstances nor is it permanent swiftness and fury.
Do you know that anyone can pick up the banner and use the buffs and the cooldowns are tied to the individual and not the banner? Meaning a group of 5 can pass it around to use the blast finishers and buffs since they are all on 10-15 second cooldowns. Fury from Banner of Discipline is 8 second duration with a 10 second cool down as soon as you involve a second person in the buff cycle you have permanent Fury even if both people have 0 boon duration. Similarly Swiftness is 10 seconds on a 15 second cooldown. And blast finishers are on a 10 second cooldown. In a group of 5 that works out to about 45 potential blast finishers per banner dropped 25 is a conservative number. If you don’t want to involve other people 60% boon duration will give one person the capability to buff a group with permanent swiftness and fury.
Why give Warrior’s such treatment? Why can’t I have +HP for my phantasms while recharging all my shatters without losing the HP benefit? Forget that I can use Illusionary Persona, mash all my shatters to heal, recharge them and do it again, then still throw down an army of illusions with modified HP…I want it because Elementalist has it and Warriors are begging for it to so I should have it.
Because mesmers are in a good place in terms of survivability and DPS depending on the build. Warriors are weak in terms of defense and bunkering and need a buff in that area. Your argument has nothing to do with game balance.
And also because it works against what I hope the devs are aiming for: more powerful active effects for Warrior Signets. Currently, they are in a position for it primarily because they don’t have strong mechanics that would make such a change overpowered.
Stronger actives could make Glass Cannon builds that much stronger. Warrior DPS isn’t in need of upward tweaks. I ran my warrior in WvW the other week in PVT armor but an otherwise glassy build (20/30/0/0/20) without consumables and was dropping 20k 100B’s and 16k Killshots. If I had run zerker armor, consumables, and DPS oriented utilities I’m sure those numbers would have been much higher.
Banner of Discipline gives 170 precision and 15% crit damage, 25+ blast finishers along with permanent swiftness and fury for a group.
I hope you realize how preposterous you make that comparison.
Why because I used facts?
As for what signet effect makes the idea not viable, it’s the general design of them all. Elementalist gets Written in Stone because their active effects amount to extra attacks that can be blocked or dodged and not modifiers of the class itself.
The active effects of warriors are not modifiers of the class itself. You get a heal, stability, adrenalin, a condition cleanse, 3 unblockable attacks, might, fury, and swiftness. However warriors can already get all that. Not at the same time of course because that’s 4 utilities for 3 utility slots.
What they are gaining are the passive effects while those abilities are on cooldown for a 30 point trait investment in Defense. The passives amount to 200 HPS, 180 Precision, 180 Toughness, 180 Power, 1 extra dodge every 30 seconds, and 1 extra adrenalin bar every 90 seconds.
The power and precision is a net loss because you’d get far more offense by investing those 30 trait points into Strength Arms or Discipline.
The HPS and toughness are strong additions to a bunker build which most people agree is a huge warrior weakness (the inability to bunker a point due to lack of sustain). Shoudl also note that while I listed it as a 200 HPS gain above in reality it’s only ~60 HPS gain over using healing Surge at full adrenalin.
The Extra dodge and Adrenalin come at such a slow pace (30 and 90 seconds respectively) that it’s of very little use to glass cannons. Their fights should generally be decided one way or the other long before 30 or 90 seconds have elapsed. For a bunker builds these are beneficial but there are far easier ways to achieve more effective results like traiting embrace the pain or running sigils of energy.
I don’t think it’s a good use of time or energy to fixate on how classes were designed but rather to look at where they are now and need help. Comparing Ele skills and traits as a direct correlation to warrior ones is a futile exercise you need to look at the class as a whole and determine if it needs adjustment up or down. So the question shouldn’t be are warrior and elementalist signets equivalent but rather, Can they both make effective bunkers? When viewed through that lens we can start to think about what adjustments need to be made to bring the professions into balance.
TLDR I don’t think a grandmaster trait in defense that allows signets to maintain their passive effects after activation adds anything to a DPS glass cannon build that couldn’t be done more effectively already. A bunker build would gain some HPS and mitigation which it sorely needs but it comes at the cost of bring less to a team fight than a banner build.
Signet of Fury: gives 180 precision to yourself. Banner of Discipline gives 170 precision and 15% crit damage, 25+ blast finishers along with permanent swiftness and fury for a group. An additional full bar of Adrenalin every 30 seconds is hardly OP considering several builds don’t even spend their adrenalin.
That’s like saying that Bull’s Charge is a kittenty utility because it has a 40s cooldown.
Signet of Fury allows you to punch out two max adrenaline bursts in a quick succession. Flurry>Eviscerate, Skull Crack>Eviscerate, Kill Shot>Eviscerate to name a few.
Also, the comparison with the banner isn’t really valid, considering that the banner has an uptime of 80% and requires that you stay within the 600 radius range.
Signet of Might: This one is probably the strongest in an offensive build 180 power + 3 unblockable attacks every 25 seconds. However this new trait would most likely belong deep in tactics or defense making offensive synergy with a true glass cannon build a stretch. Also as with Signet of Fury you could provide 170 power and condition damage to a group with banner of strength instead of just providing 180 power to yourself.
Not sure why you seem to think that non-glass cannon Warriors cannot dish out big numbers. It doesn’t take a 30/30/0/0/10 spec to get big numbers.
The change I propose doesn’t change what Signet of Fury already does (i.e. allow 2 back to back burst skills). What it does is allow you to keep 180 Precision while you do the second one. If the trait is deep in the defense tree you are giving up more than 180 trait points that could be used for power, crit damage, or precision to pick it up. So I see it giving defensive builds a little more punch but offensive builds will see a net loss in DPS if they try to pick it up.
Banners have a 900 radius and 95% up time when traited for inspiring banners. While I understand they have issues in certain scenarios they are also very strong in others because they can effect 5 people and any ally can pick them up to activate their buffs and blast finishers. Even in a solo scenario they can provide far more offense than a signet passive as long as you can stay within the radius.
Big numbers are relative anything you can do in terms of DPS without 30 trait points I can do better with those additional 30 trait points invested into DPS traits.
As for Bull’s Charge it’s one of my favorite utilities a gap closer, gap creator, and CC on one button with no trait investment required.
A trait that would allow you to use signets and keep their passive effect would be another and it would make signet builds more viable.
I didn’t follow up on this last comment mainly because I didn’t feel like it but partly because it’s just obvious. Warrior Signets aren’t balanced to keep their passive effects always.
That’s why it would require a trait investment. I don’t see a single passive or active Warrior Signet ability that is extremely powerful if combined let alone overpowered (OP). If you look at signets and compare them to similar abilities you’ll notice that the passive and active portions are generally weaker than than the non signet versions. The advantage of these diluted signet abilities is that you have flexibility in using them for the active or passive.
Healing Signet: Closest candidate to being OP, as it would turn the weakest warrior heal into the strongest with about 390 HPS w- no healing power and the reduced cooldown trait. That’s very similar to the Ele version w- traits except the Ele version scales better (if you assume 1 cast per second which is fairly conservative for a D/D spec). However I’d actually suggest adding 10 seconds to the cooldown if this change went through dropping it to 330 HPS (after cooldown trait) so it’s not quite as strong.
Dolyak Signet: The active is worse than Balanced Stance with a longer cooldown and no stun break and no extended duration from stance mastery. The 180 toughness is a nice increase that would have a strong place in bunker builds. Since warriors are the only profession with no class access to protection I have a hard time calling this OP.
Signet of Fury: gives 180 precision to yourself. Banner of Discipline gives 170 precision and 15% crit damage, 25+ blast finishers along with permanent swiftness and fury for a group. An additional full bar of Adrenalin every 30 seconds is hardly OP considering several builds don’t even spend their adrenalin.
Signet of Might: This one is probably the strongest in an offensive build 180 power + 3 unblockable attacks every 25 seconds. However this new trait would most likely belong deep in tactics or defense making offensive synergy with a true glass cannon build a stretch. Also as with Signet of Fury you could provide 170 power and condition damage to a group with banner of strength instead of just providing 180 power to yourself.
Signet of Stamina: 33% endurance refill. This effectively adds one additional dodge every 30 seconds. I don’t think many people run this for the passive it’s just a nice perk until you use the active. Note that this endurance regen doesn’t stack with vigor nor do warriors have any defensive on dodge abilities like the guardians Selfless Daring or rangers Companion’s Defense. The condition clear is nice and several builds use it for the active.
Signet of Rage: Taken primarily for it’s active (swiftness, fury, might). Personally the only time I have this off coodown is when I’m waiting for the right time to use the active. The passive is 1 strike of adrenalin every 3 seconds or 1 full bar every 90 seconds (3 times worse at adrenalin generation than Signet of Fury).
While I agree this could be a nice buff to warriors you would be giving up several utility slots and a grand master trait to get it. Signets are selfish in nature, banners and shouts would bring more to a group setting than a signet warrior could hope to.
A warrior with a little extra adrenalin to spend or an extra dodge 30 seconds after he used his condition clear doesn’t strike fear into the pit of my stomach. So which signets specifically do you think will be problematic to game balance?
Healing signet scales horribly bad with healing power and that should be changed. But if you don’t invest any points in healing power, I think healing signet shouldn’t become significantly better. Small buff is okay.
Healing signet scaling falls into the norm for other #6 heals scaling wise. The passive is .033 HPS where as Healing Surge is .032 HPS. The active portion of Healing Signet when traited for 20% cool down reduction is .029 HPS. Compare that to Guardians Shelter which is .022 or Signet of Resolve which is .03.
I have already suggested many months ago that healing power should have more effect for any profession besides guardian (which currently benefits the most from healing power e.g. via altruistic healing).
Altruistic Healing (AH) scales very poorly with Healing Power .01 per boon applied the max healing power possible is roughly 2000 meaning that with max healing power Altruistic Healing is healing for 20 more health per application on top of it’s base 69 for a total of 89 Health per boon applied. Which is roughly a 29% increase from Healing Power. At the end of the day you are much better off trying to apply more boons than trying to boost Healing Power in an AH build which is why most of them don’t run cleric’s gear. As a point of comparison Warrior Shouts in a max healing build will increase by 134% (1192 + 1600) compared to AH’s 29% increase using the same Healing Power setup.
Should note I much prefer to talk about healing in terms of HPS but AH builds present a problem in that there are numerous variables to account for primarily dealing with the numbers of boons you expect to apply in a given time frame and the number of people you plan to apply them to.
I don’t think the actual scaling values are the problem but the lack of options for classes to stack heals from multiple sources like Guardians and Elementalists can. Scaling Adrenal Health is one good option for warriors. A trait that would allow you to convert adrenalin gained or spent to health would be another good option for Warrior healing and encourge the use of F1 skills. A trait that would allow you to use signets and keep their passive effect would be another and it would make signet builds more viable.
Personally I rather see warriors get a healing option that scales fairly well with healing power so that it opens up more build options rather than just give everyone in zerker armor a great heal.
Exactly!
If you go full zerker, don’t expect great healing either, you are a glass cannon. But those who invest in healing power should be rewarded better than they do now.
What about those who invest in Soldier or Sentinel gear, they arn’t allowed good healing either? How about you improve the Passive Significantly and the healing slightly so ALL gear gets a chance to shine?
I don’t want forced into Shout Warrior Builds more then I already am. Don’t tell me I don’t know.
No. Neither are they allowed the condition damage of someone who gears for it or the burst damage of someone who gears for it. Sentinel and Soldier gear has it’s own niche which is surviving a spike better than any other set of gear. Cleric’s gear (or any other variant focusing on Healing Power) on the other hand should be better at sustaining in long drawn out fights.
When looking at investing in healing gear you want to evaluate for the break even point where Healing begins to surpass Vitality. So if you look at warriors, Mending is the best scaling Heal in terms of HPS (1/26) at ~.04. Shouts scale about the same .8/20 to .8/30 for values between .027 and .04. So you get roughly .16 HPS for every point of Healing Power if you run Mending and a 3 shout build. Since 1 vitality = 10 Health and 1 Healing Power equates to ~.16 HPS it takes just over 60 (10/.16) seconds for healing power to outperform vitality.
When I ran these numbers for the typical D/D Ele bunker (30 water 30 arcane) pre nerf I came up with .55 HPS per point of healing. Meaning that the typical Ele bunker was ~3.5 times more effective at converting Healing Power to heals than a shout warrior. To put it another way an Elementalist has to last 18 seconds for Healing Power to start paying dividends (over Vitality) a Warrior needs to last over 60 seconds to see that same benefit.
Note on these numbers it’s ballpark math. The warrior build is not optimized for max healing, since their isn’t a standard warrior bunker build that I know of, (you could run things like dogged march or dwayna runes to add regen into the mix for the warrior which would boost the HPS somewhat). Also this only looks at scaling difference and doesn’t even attempt to compare the base line heals of Elementalist vs Warrior.
If you look at bunker builds like Guardian or Elementalist you’ll see that they have several ways of healing and avoiding damage. It’s when they stack these abilities from traits, utilities, weapons and gear that a bunker is made. Asking to turn Healing Signet by itself into the only thing a bunker warrior needs would break the class and the game.
@ Leo G
Could be right, although this is also on a skill that doesn’t refill adrenaline or have any other effects. Could lower the active to about equal Healing Surge then. Such a skill would have the comparative drawbacks of needing 10sec for the same effect and scaling much worse than other active heals.
It is providing passive healing until you activate it which is it’s other effect. As for scaling .05 x10 heals every 17.25 seconds works out to .029 HPS Healing Surge is .032 HPS very similar numbers differing only by ~3 HPS for every 1000 Healing power.
Personally I rather see warriors get a healing option that scales fairly well with healing power so that it opens up more build options rather than just give everyone in zerker armor a great heal.
That comes with a whole other set of balance issues. You can’t compare Elementalist signets and traits to Warrior’s. For instance a condition removed every 10 sec/3sec chill vs a full cleanse/33% Endurance regen…they are not equivalent.
I never attempted to compare Elementalist traits and signets with the Warrior counterparts, I just pointed out that Arenanet has already implemented maintaining the passive effect of signets after activating it for one profession already.
Signet heavy builds for warriors are frowned upon in most formats (WvW, sPvP, PvE) if a Healing Signet fix can provide some love for all signets and signet builds thus diversifying build options I think that’s a good thing for both the class and the game.
@ Serbent
“Notice how little the warrior has to invest compared to the Ranger. That means the warrior can make that hp/sec even better by getting more toughness, can be more offensive with more of other stats, etc while maintaining the same (or better) hp/sec as the Ranger.”
Not sure how you are defining little. The ranger doesn’t give up his 6 slot heal to get his passive regen. This means they get the 6 heal in addition to all that passive regen this equates to about an additional 400 HPS over the regen numbers listed. The warrior doesn’t have that luxury. This also means the ranger is free to use his 6 heal to proc Rune sets like Lyssa, Centaur, or Dwayna.
In addition to that for a warrior to have a high dependable uptime on regen from warrior abilities he really only has 1 option. Invest 30 points in tactics and carry a banner around. Rangers running heavy regen build take Dwayna runes to augment their regen. This is somewhat counterproductive on the warrior as it removes the passive 200+ HPS from the Healing Signet where the ranger doesn’t lose any regen from activating his 6 heal to gain regen.
@ Leo G
“So how about that?
Healing Signet Passive: 200(x0.1 Healing)
Healing Signet Active: 856 (same as Troll Unguent) every second for 10 seconds (x0.05 Healing which is half the scaling of TU)”
That’s way too strong. It works out to ~496HPS with 0 healing power if you take the signet cooldown trait. That’s almost twice the healing of healing surge at full adrenalin.
I’d actually suggest a new trait that allows you to maintain the passive effect of signets after they are activated (Eles have that as an Earth Grandmaster trait). That would yield about ~390 HPS w- no healing power and ~500 HPS w- 2,000 healing power. Compare that to Healing Surge with Full Adrenalin with no trait investment at ~272 HPS with 0 Healing Power and ~337 with 2000 Healing Power.
@ Tammuz.7361
“ok my actual numbers with 150 heal power are healing signet is either a passive 215 hps OR a 3470 heal per 16 sec (216.875 heal/sec)”
The passive scales at .033
Therefore 150 Healing Power will only increase the passive heal by 4.95 giving you 204.95 HPS not 215. In game displays as 205 per tick.
The active portion scales at .5 and has a base value of 3275 so with 150 Healing Power it would scale to 3350 which yields 209.375 HPS not 216.875 by your methodology. The tooltip is wrong in game it shows both a higher base value and incorrect scaling as described in the wiki.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_Signet
If you add in the cast time which is a more accurate method of getting HPS you’ll see this impacts Healing Signet more than Mending or Healing Surge since it has a longer cast that ALSO needs to be applied more frequently.
Just wanted to note that I tested my values in the mist just prior to posting this by putting 15 points into defense (to gain 150 Healing Power) and then jumping into the fire to check heal values to verify that nothing had changed in a recent patch.
I think the passive might need to come up in non-healing builds. If I run a clerics tactics build this signet can hold its weight, but it currently has NO place in a berserker build. Not sure it should be as viable in a seeker build, but it needs to see some play in soldiers, and certainly Valk and Shaman builds. Really signets are still going to have a hard time without a stun breaker (particularly in PvP and WvW). Obviously Dolyak signet is the most likely candidate here. Our next balance patch will absolutely be looking at stun breakers and spreading them out on all professions to make more categories of utilities viable. I’ll probably post this in general later as well but this was a larger balance pass and we will likely let this meta sit a bit longer than previous ones while we work towards taking time to push more less effective builds towards viable status.
Jon
Can you go into how it holds it’s own weight? Looking at the numbers Healing Signet provides less HPS (Health Per Second) than Mending or Healing Surge (used with at least 2 bars of adrenalin).
The active is incredibly weak in terms of HPS gained and has the worst scaling of all warrior healing abilities when normalized for HPS @ .025.
The passive has a lower base healing value than either of the alternatives and scales about the same as surge (.033) and worse than mending (.04) when normalized for HPS.
Since the signet has both a lower base value and the same or worse scaling than any of the alternatives it will always return less HPS than any of the alternatives in any given time frame.
Advantages of the signet
1) It starts healing the second you take damage. The other heals require you to activate them before you start seeing any HPS this means under ideal circumstances you want to wait until your health defecit is large enough that when you activate you’re heal there won’t be any over healing. This favors the signet initially but given the amount of damage in most fights this is only adding a few seconds of effective HPS per fight.
2) It can’t be interrupted by enemy players
3) Doesn’t require any player action or thought to maximize healing.
Personally I can’t justify the loss of HPS and side benefits of the other heals (condition removal, adrenalin gain) to justify using the signet. The only use I have for Healing Signet is in WvW when activating healing skills is tricky in a lag fest (i.e. 3 way at Stonemist).
No. Movement speed bonuses only uses the highest value active. In your above example the Signet of Air at 25% would take precedence. The only benefit having Rune of the Traveler would provide is if you use the active ability of Signet of Air then you will be moving 5% faster instead of at the default rate.