It’s a time issue more than a pleasue issue.
As you said people could like or not a similar thing, but if implemente would mean the normal work x9 instead x1.That’s why i really doubt they are going to give a “different walkthrough” to every single class.
Yeah, but if the story were actually deep and nuanced, players might actually appreciate the story team’s work more.
If ANet decided to slow down progression and implement a system that helped integrate character progression, specifically with the elite spec, in a fashion that helped build immersion and made sense with the story, it would be awesome. Imagine going through PoF as a Spellbreaker and having a noticably (but not totally) different experience than a Soulbeast, because the story missions were class specific and unlocked new abilities. They could even do small instances and have NPCs that guided you along the way. For the RPG part of the game, and storytelling purposes, it would be a big step up for the game.
But it’s inconvenient for players that don’t care about the story, so ANet probably won’t do that.
Playerbase: Give tanky stats a place in PvE! The game is too easy, even with squishy stats!
ANet: makes mobs hit harder, have faster attacks, and push out more condition damage
Playerbase: This game is ridiculous, XPac is a joke, mobs hit too hard, I quit GG.
On a serious note, though, having a place for boon stripping and enemy condition cleansing is a nice idea, and it seems that PoF will be leaning more in that direction. Apparently there are some enemy types that will be quite boon heavy, for example. I suppose we’ll have to see.
As for having a variety of damage-oriented abilities… it won’t change anything. People will just come up with new “meta” builds and run those. There are situations where building tanky/healy is important, particularly in Raids and, on occasion, high-end fractals, but the game could use more of that. I’d honestly like to see the fractal team stop working on fractals and go re-visit dungeons. I’m sure they could improve the experience quite a bit.
So you think that Scourge will have the tools to be viable as a power spec within the traits themselves?
I’m not sure I see that, given the obvious pull towards stacking condition damage built into the traits themselves.
And nothing I’ve said prevents the reaper from specializing for conditions any less than the scourge can specialize towards power. In fact, if you look at my proposed modifications, the reaper will probably be applying chill and cripple MORE frequently than it already does, assuming you spec for it. I just think it’s a great way to give the reaper a power option without forcing a redesign of the rest of necromancer.
Again, it still does chill and cripple, and tons of it. I just advocated for options granting stability (very useful in melee) and the option of using Power instead of feeling forced into condition damage.
What it does, despite being power-centric, is give the reaver MORE options, not less, by making the purpose of the reaper, from a build perspective, clear, while still allowing for creativity on the part of the player.
Honestly, I think you are wrong, reaper is a melee spec not a power or a condi spec. This is a spec that was designed to take a grab at your foe and then force it to stick to you while you try to slaughter it. As for Scourge, it’s not a condition spec, it’s an area denial spec.
It’s to short sighted to put these spec into the a power folder or a condi folder. These spec are designed around a gameplay not a specific kind of damage. If reaper had been a power spec, we might have had something like the wever have, some direct damage increase on adept, master and grandmaster trait position.
The designs are the following :
However, there is none, instead reaper focus on chill and try hard to stay close to it’s foes, taking advantage of the tools that have been given to him : a greatsword, shouts and a melee shroud. The reaper is slow and cold murderer that take you into it’s chilling embrace to deliver the death blow.
Similarly, the scourge focus on the ability to controle conditions and boons in the battlefield : the sand shard, the punishment skills and the range torch skills. The scourge controle areas where they decide who will stand strong and who will wither.
Necromancer has enough tools in the base class to fill the condition-inflicting role, and the proposed changes still allow a character to make use of the indomitable, melee bruiser abilities. Add to that the natural synergy between condition-inflicting shroud traits and the reaper, and you still have the ability to be focused on condition damage if you choose to.
What the changes I suggested do is allow a power-based reaper to do power-based things. The greatsword having no damaging conditions on it should be evidence that, on some practical level, the reaper ought to have power-oriented traits, and even if the reaper lost the chill->bleed trait, it would still work with the other trait lines by using the cleaving reaper’s shroud abilities to inflict lots of conditions.
I’m talking about giving the elite spec a purity of purpose to make it distinct, rather than forcing it to have lackluster power. Looking at it as a whole, you could put classify the reaper as a self-sustaining, hard-hitting, unrelenting juggernaut, and all I’m advocating for is the ability for it to do those things, and it shouldn’t need condition damage, the base necromancer’s strongest trait, to do it.
With the newest line of Elite Specializations, it seems that ANet has really zero’d in on the trend of having each line of a specialization be focused around a specific theme, and for the most part they have created powerful abilities that are thematic and fun.
But reaper still has its place as a condition specialization where it isn’t supposed to be, and fixing that, in theory, should be fairly feasible. Currently, the reaper lines are centered around three ideas:
The top line (Augury of Death, Soul Eater, Blighter’s Boon) is based around shouts and self sustain, the middle line (Chilling Nova, Chilling Victory, Deathly Chill) is based around the Chill condition, and dealing damage with it, and the bottom line (Relentless Pursuit, Decimate Defenses, Reaper’s Onslaught) is about… something. I’m going to guess its chasing foes down and hitting them harder.
So, here’s my suggestion: Purify the trait lines, making them very distinct in their function, and remove all hints of condition damage from the reaper itself while still providing a unique playstyle for the necro.
Top Line: Probably the best line of the bunch. It does the “self sustain” thing well, but doesn’t apply enough boons for it to be worth it. The change? Roll the Chilling Victory trait into the grandmaster trait, Blighter’s Boon. Now it’s self-sufficient, still relies on the Greatsword and Shouts as part of its sustain, and most importantly, keeps the central theme of chill-matters while putting the support element of it in the support line.
Middle Line: This line works… but not in a way that is thematic with the specialization. Power isn’t rewarded enough, and might generation is nice, but mostly unnecessary, particularly in PvE. To aid in this regard, we change a few things: 1) Chilling Nova’s internal cooldown gets reduced. As-is the trait is nice, but doesn’t do much. By reducing the cooldown to 4 or 5 seconds, it procs more consistently, but not often enough to maintain permanent chill on its own. 2) Chilling Victory is changed. It now uses the effect of Decimate Defenses, which has natural synergy with Chilling Nova’s critical-based effect. 3) The biggest change here is the change to Deathly Chill. Conditions may be easier to balance around, but Reaper shouldn’t be a condition specialization. Instead, we change the effect of Deathly Chill to work in a way that is similar to pulmonary impact on the daredevil: Whenever you chill an opponent, that opponent gains a stack of Deathly Chill. After X period of time (say, 1 second or so), the Deathly Chill deals direct damage. Importantly, however, this damage CAN critically hit (and consequently, should likely be relatively low at its base). This trait could also grant increased Ferocity against chilled foes, and take that portion of Reaper’s Onslaught for itself. This IS the damage trait, after all.
Bottom Line: The bottom traitline synergizes around catching your target, removing movement impairment, increased movement abilities, and resisting CC. To that end, we do the following: 1) We have a new major master trait: Unrelenting Reaper. This trait has two effects. First, it pulses stability and swiftness to the necromancer while in Reaper’s shroud. Secondly, it causes the reaper’s Death’s Charge and Soul Spiral to Cripple and Chill foes it strikes. 2) Reaper’s Onslaught is a nice trait, but its damage dealing functionality makes little sense. We remove the ferocity, put with the actual crit-oriented DPS line, and add the following functionality: Striking a Crippled or Chilled foe reduces the cooldown of reaper abilities. It would likely be a small reduction, with a short internal cooldown to prevent abuse (say, 1-2 seconds), but would do what the line really wants to do, which is camp reaper’s shroud and be unstoppable via movement.
Sure, it isn’t perfect, but I think it is much more thematic, capitalizes on different uses in different game modes, and overall makes the elite spec more cohesive. I’m sure some things would need to be tweaked, but overall I think it could work.
It isn’t viable at all. You’ll get dunked by any other condi class and the power damage is sub par. Base s/f is a better pvp spec and that isn’t even viable in top tier play.
I never said anything about PvP. Even then, once the XPac hits, the meta will jump into a big state of flux, things will change, and even if Weaver doesn’t find a place in the meta, it’s not that big of a deal.
Then they need to add this to the traits’ descriptions.
P.S. What “totems”?? Do you mean the shades?
That’s what I meant. And, as far as I can tell, your shades will be the focus of the rez on Shroud 4, which is GREAT.
I love it. I feel like it fills the specific bruiser-y feel while still allowing other builds to shine. It doesn’t feel overpowered, but feels perfectly viable, even if it isn’t optimal, which I think makes it darn near perfect.
Actually they do work, and in really interesting ways. Traits that modify the Shroud 1 proc whenever your totems Damage enemies, usually in response to using your “shroud” skills. It’s really, REALLY interesting interactions that I was eager to test out, and I love the way they’ve been resolved.
You’re about 2 years late for the kind of care to have that discussion anymore, and truth be told, I have zero desire to repeat what others before me already said, since for the most part, they said it better then I could.
I am sure the Topics are still round here someplace, maybe in the HoT sub forums, feel free to peruse them, I am sure there might be still be a dozen or so left that only got locked and not deleted.
So… basically, instead of answering my questions, you claim that I don’t really care? I mean, you can have your opinion about whether or not I’m in a position to care about it, but that doesn’t invalidate the questions themselves. If casual players’ needs aren’t being met, those needs first need to be stated. That’s what I’m saying.
Additionally, we can all go back and talk about things we didn’t like at launch, but the game is very different from what it was back then. Similarly, it doesn’t matter what HoT was like when it launched, because it is actually quite different from what it was when it launched, and my comments are meant to reflect the current state of the game.
So, for someone coming into the game now, or recently returning, what are the kinds of content that casual players are looking for, and does the current game fail to provide this content? If so, how?
It shouldn’t be a terribly difficult question to answer if people are clearly upset about it.
(edited by Manijin.3428)
I think Guardian already fits the Paragon pretty well as-is. Shouts could use a bit of a buff (maybe… shouts apply barrier? >_>) to make it ideal, but it works pretty well. The new outfit does wonders for the concept, too. :P
To answer the original question: Yes, ANet has remembered the casuals.
I didn’t see any evidence of this with HoT. The LS3 maps were more friendly, but those were already in production when HoT came out so are not necessarily in response to the problems people had with HoT. I will wait to see what PoF is like before coming to any conclusions about whether Anet still cares about all the casual players that made GW2 a success at launch.
How? Each map has soloable content, the story has very few steps (arguably too few, but that’s another matter), the mobs all have fairly simple mechanics, and if your goal is simply sitting down to play for a little bit, the HoT maps are just as serviceable as most core maps, with the sole exception of Dragon’s Stand, which is more of a zerg map than anything else.
Getting mastery points isn’t terribly difficult, many hero points have multiple people working on them anyways, and there are lots that don’t require more than a button press, just like in core Tyria.
So what do you count as evidence that casual player’s needs are being met? Let’s get rid of the definition of the word “casual”, and just focus on the practical elements of the word. What content meets the satisfaction of casual play, and what content is lacking from HoT that would facilitate casual play?
I’m having the same issues where I just feel really weak and cannot move around on my own and have to stick into groups. The content seems to favor ranged combat and AoE but that’s just my opinion from playing the game as if you get near any mob they just knock you back or down and then proceed to get wiped across the floor like nothing.
I’m thinking of switching to a ranged class in the game and see if it feels any better then playing melee but I will have to level it from scratch which will be a pain but I will survive.
Point 1: Well, warrior has Longbow. It’s a solid ranged weapon: in fact, it’s my favorite by far in the game.
Point 2: I play almost exclusively melee. Random dodging and a few short-cooldown stunbreaks/stability pretty much solve open world entirely.
To answer the original question: Yes, ANet has remembered the casuals. The issue is that ANet is also attempting to develop a game with broad appeal, and so they create content that, at least in theory, appeals to a wide group of gamers.
Part of the problem with Heart of Thorns is that many players (myself included) went into the expansion with no idea of how to really play the game. I don’t mean play as an experienced player, either: I mean play the game as it is built. I remember the first time I went to the jungle and fought Pocket Raptors. I thought: “Huh. I died FAST. Better put on some tankier gear and use more AoE-heavy weapons”. But that was largely because I’ve been playing GW2 since launch, and I remember running dungeons at launch, with level-appropriate characters and gear, and learning the hard way that dying is just what you’re supposed to do in the game, and if you want to NOT die you need to learn how to interact with the game.
But players that never had that experience, that really only ran dungeons when they were level 80 Zerker speed runs, didn’t or don’t PvP, or Raid, or tackle any of the challenging content in the game, don’t have anything in the core maps that teach them this. Yes, enemies in HoT use a LOT of burst and CC… at least, compared to core Tyria mobs. It’s not hard to deal with, but the game hasn’t taught the players HOW to deal with it. It’s amazing how swapping out a single trait line or utility skill can DRASTICALLY change your experience with HoT, and at times the new LW maps.
And that’s where the disconnect is: The difficulty jumps up in the expansion content, but the game itself doesn’t prepare you for this in a way that helps. This isn’t merely, “Git gud, scrub”; it’s the game not teaching casual players how to deal with content using skills they’ve likely never needed and traits that may at first seem pointless.
Hopefully PoF will solve this issue by having its first map act as a “tutorial” map, encouraging players to learn to tackle specific enemy and attack types, and preparing them for the types of encounters they’ll face in a way that supports skill growth.
hope no, the those like press buttons race, theres the engineer. With tons of weapons and buttons to press. ask the engineers how the fell about that..
Anyone else have some fun day dream ideas they’d like for the warrior?
Woulbe amazing use Greatsword/Melee on PVP, Pve and WvW. A viable melee warrior is what’s missing in this game.
I do not care that they creates specialization that turns the warrior into a flying butterfly that shoots rainbow rays. since at least they make the basic warrior viable.
Viable and optimal are not the same thing.
And how is the loss of all those attributes that exist on the pet, even for 1 second, elite?
Elite specs are not upgrades, they’re a variation of the base class, the part of soulbeast that’s “elite” is being able to fuse with your pet and use some of their abilities at your own whim, as well as gaining access to MH dagger and stances.
I just logged in to say what the kitten?
Of course Elite Specs are meant to be upgrades to the main profession, their entire point is to be an upgrade to the main profession. I mean, the Druid isn’t and that is the entire reason why it sucks, but for any other profession the elite spec is clearly an upgrade.
I can vividly remember the rage of some people complaining about the elite specs being superior in PvP and you see almost noone not using an elite spec at level 80. How anyone could seriously suggest that the elite specs are not meant to be upgrades is beyond me.
Actually, he’s right. The fact that ANet was TERRIBLE at balancing this until more recently and made them too powerful doesn’t change the fact that they were originally intended to simply be options that further specialized your character in a particular niche. They’ve started reigning in some of the specs recently, and it’s a good idea.
Maybe, in spite of all the points against them, mounts will just… be fun? I enjoyed riding on the raptor, even if I never felt like I needed to, and I think that’s really the point. Sure, Waypoints are better for covering distance in a timely fashion, and are established in the world… but jumping on a raptor is a method of movement that’s fun. I like fun things, even if they aren’t necessary for 99% of the content.
Honestly, I don’t really know why Spirit Weapons never got the full “minion” treatment. They do different things than minions do, balancing them shouldn’t be terribly difficult, and sustained hits with some burst abilities is basically what minions already do anyways. Necros would still be the best minion-mancers, but at least there would be options for people who like the play style. Might even attract more of the GW1 Ritualist crowd.
I’d like a true Arcane Warrior archetype. Hopefully Spellbreaker isn’t going to be the closest we get. We could get scepter main-hand as a melee weapon, using it for elementally-imbued attacks, and get Arcane skills as the utilities, but that fulfill a different role than Elementalist arcane skills, doing things like condi conversion, large amounts of retaliation, and a blinks/teleports. I just like the idea of Scepter/Shield Warrior blinking into combat followed up by a big, elemental strike, with stance support and buttloads of retal. It feels right to me.
I think if ANet kept the change, but made a few alterations to the way the staff functions, it could be useful. Turn that short range into a combo attack, add heal/boon support to allies in the affected area (even if it’s small), and reduce the attack time just a bit, and it’d go a long way towards staff being the decent support weapon it’s supposed to be.
Of course, it would also need to have a few other skills retuned, but with the staff 4 update (pulsing heals instead of just boons + end heal), it seems like it’s headed in the right direction.
Reaper is being steered away from condi-damage because it was always supposed to be a tanky, melee-oriented power elite
Nope, nothing like that happen. Reaper hasn’t change a bit except for one trait that gave him a different kind of sustain from GS. The only thing they did was nerfing the shroud as a whole and make some room for corruption by stripping core necro signet from their corruption.
Power reaper is still in it’s awkward state where you have to play condi to reach a descent amount of damage where high damage are valued and the power build are still threatening for players due to gravedigger however power spec didn’t improved at all and condi spec barely lose any damage. That’s the reality.
On personal not, I never got the quack for berserker and I liked to play axe. Let’s be honest, My build gained more damage and 5% more attack speed. I don’t feel nerfed at all personally.
And that’s part of the issue at the moment. I’ve also heard that the base game is going to be getting more updates before the expansion, specifically rearranging skills to add Barrier, an entirely new mechanic, to the base classes. This could also affect elite specs, depending on how it’s handled.
Overall, I get that people are upset, and I’m not defending ANet nerfing things without reasonable cause. But we also expected Barrier to be hitting the base game on the 8/8 patch, and it didn’t, which tells me we probably have more big patches, likely before next weekend’s Open Playtest, before everything is in place pre-expansion.
Really, I’m just expecting that, over the next month or so, the state of the game is going to be really rocky because I don’t think they want to roll out all their changes at once. I’m just reserving judgment until we see patches and class changes stabilize across the board.
I think I can.
With the new slew of Elite Specs coming out, people are worried that ANet is just power creeping the new specs, and nerfing the older specs is part of some devious plan to incentivize the newer ones.
While a tiny portion of this fear is legitimate, there’s a more realistic expectation: You see, GW2 was never supposed to be about elite specs being a straight upgrade, but rather a different option for your character to have in a given situation. Berserker, for example, provides lots of stun breaks, decent CC, and some condi-damage support previously lacking on Warrior. Until now, with the way the class worked, Berserker was a 100% upgrade over base Warrior. Now, on the other hand, that is being changed, and you see this across the board: Elementalist’s Tempest elite spec is being driven more towards its support theme, Reaper is being steered away from condi-damage because it was always supposed to be a tanky, melee-oriented power elite, etc.
Basically, what’s happening is that elite specs are being turned into OPTIONS for characters, rather than straight upgrades. Even Spellbreaker is limited to TWO adrenaline bars, which means it STILL won’t have the sustain of three bar bursts. It’s a good direction for the game to take, even if it has immediate consequences that are difficult to predict.
I LIKE IT. Make the firebrand the guardian tank/off-tank people have been waiting for. With their regular access to protection, aegis, and spot heals, it could be a really fun playstyle.
You’re probably too offensively spec’d. If you don’t grab things like the Defense trait line , blocks/evades, or defensive gear, you’re probably going to die pretty quickly, particularly in HoT/more recent Living World maps. A lot of people complained about the same thing when HoT launched, when really all that needed to happen was building a bit more defense into characters through gear and builds.
Also, regarding Ascended Trinkets: Would you rather have slightly higher DPS, or be alive?
We also need to know more about your current build. What are your weapon sets? Trait Lines? Utilities? These are all important components.
(edited by Manijin.3428)
The thing is, people still look at classes in GW2 the way they look at them in other games:
Warrior = Tank
Guardian = Off-tank/Healer
Elementalist = Ranged DPS/Healer
Ranger = Ranged DPS
etc.GW2 isn’t structured like this. GW2 says “Here are classes. Classes have tools that make them fill a variety of roles in different ways. If you want to be tanky, build a class tanky and see what makes it different.” As to how well they’ve accomplished giving each class tanky/damage/support options, that’s a topic for another day, but fundamentally each class is designed around tools and playstyle, not a given role.
What’s contested is more the fact that tanking is owned by a fashionista class instead of either one of the heavy armor classes. This is absolute nonsense, counter-intuitive and misleading. And frankly as one of the classes that has the cool armors it’s disappointing to be incompetent as a tank, especially when the guy that tanks well wears a dress.
I don’t think warriors would object tanking belonging to guardians or revenants, as long as you get at least one valid tank option for one of the heavy armor class.
atleast guardians have guard in their name, ridiculous that warriors and guardians do not live up to the kitten namesake
Warriors are suppose to be good at fighting, not supporting
guardians are suppose to be good at guarding and light healing sure.Its ass backwards when heavy armour cant do heavy armour things too. Why even bother.
So, warriors are good at fighting, and guardians are good at guarding and light healing.
I actually see arguments like these in table-top gaming. People feel like your class should define your capabilities rather than the way you build/play your character. Again, if warrior has problems tanking, I’d like to see the devs address the issue. It doesn’t, however, matter if warriors aren’t the BEST tanks.
Same goes for Guardian. If guardian literally cannot tank any encounters, regardless of gear or build, that’s a problem for the devs to sort out. If, however, they can, they just don’t offer different benefits that other classes do, that’s not a problem. The reason Chronomancer is chosen to tank is because the alacrity/quickness uptime is seen as a major boost to the group. It is not, from what I’ve been led to believe, necessary to complete content.
That doesn’t mean that tanking should be relegated SOLELY to the heavy armor classes. I’d like to see Earth Elementalist tanks, ranger tanks combining Bears with Taunts with Evasion, Rogue Evasion tanks that support by spreading poisons, and yeah, Warrior endurance tanks with a crap-ton of sustain that has to carefully time block and evade frames. All of these are great for the game… far better, in fact, than just making heavy armor classes the best tanks.
It’s all a matter of viability, not optimization.
The thing is, people still look at classes in GW2 the way they look at them in other games:
Warrior = Tank
Guardian = Off-tank/Healer
Elementalist = Ranged DPS/Healer
Ranger = Ranged DPS
etc.
GW2 isn’t structured like this. GW2 says “Here are classes. Classes have tools that make them fill a variety of roles in different ways. If you want to be tanky, build a class tanky and see what makes it different.” As to how well they’ve accomplished giving each class tanky/damage/support options, that’s a topic for another day, but fundamentally each class is designed around tools and playstyle, not a given role.
I see a lot of people speculating about the idea of what type of weapon ele’s will be getting for the expansion, but I don’t really see this thought come up:
What about the Class Mechanic? The team has stated that they wanted to alter the class mechanics of those characters that select an elite specialization. This works for many classes on a relatively simple level. Necros get new, melee-oriented skills, Mesmers get a new shatter, guardians get a few active ability changes… but what about elementalists?
Elementalists are tied to their current class mechanic in a way that basically no other class is, in that their class mechanic fundamentally governs the skills to which they have access. Any change to this mechanic would drastically alter the way elementalists play, to the point that, even if they didn’t get a single new weapon, something as simple as changing the elemental attunements, or somehow adding to them, would create a huge spread of new skills and strategies.
I’m not sure something that drastic would occur, but it’s something to think about.
HoT Price Feedback + Base game included [merged]
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Manijin.3428
I don’t mind new players getting a free copy of the game. However, the content that ANet has shown to us simply does not justify $50. When we bought GW2, the promise was that we were buying a complete game to play, and what they have shown us simply does not look like a complete game, or at least that much worth of content. We’ve shown, as a community, that we’re willing to spend money on continuous updates and new skins and conveniences, and have done our job supporting our devs.
I’ll be happy to pay $50 for the XPac, as long as ANet proves I’m getting $50 in value. Tell me how much story I’m getting. Tell me how much new world I’ll get to explore. Tell me SOMETHING more than “You get way less than GW2, for the same price.”
We got to kill 1/6 elder dragons and are given 2/3 of the 2nd, then oh would you look at that we need to pay to finish the game.
Again, I don’t really care. I enjoyed the content of GW2, and even if the Living World stuff (which was bonus content) didn’t complete before the expansion, it was always bonus content. GW2 gave you dungeons, a fun leveling experience, lots of different zones, multiple different personal stories (even if they all ended up kinda the same), and had you take down Zhaitan. That’s fine. The base game had lots of content, especially given its price.
The whole thing about the living world finishing in the expansion is… well, irrelevant. You got free content. You don’t get to complain about free content. That’s like buying a pizza, and then getting a couple of free slices, then getting mad because you have to buy the rest of the second pizza.
Convince me that the content is going to be of the quality and quantity of the base game at that price, and I’ll buy it. Otherwise, drop the price, because I can’t justify spending that much money on as little content as they’ve told us. The content they’ve shown looks fun, and like a good start, but I’m gonna need a heck of a lot more than that if I’m gonna spend that much money on it.
HoT Price Feedback + Base game included [merged]
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Manijin.3428
I don’t mind new players getting a free copy of the game. However, the content that ANet has shown to us simply does not justify $50. When we bought GW2, the promise was that we were buying a complete game to play, and what they have shown us simply does not look like a complete game, or at least that much worth of content. We’ve shown, as a community, that we’re willing to spend money on continuous updates and new skins and conveniences, and have done our job supporting our devs.
I’ll be happy to pay $50 for the XPac, as long as ANet proves I’m getting $50 in value. Tell me how much story I’m getting. Tell me how much new world I’ll get to explore. Tell me SOMETHING more than “You get way less than GW2, for the same price.”
I did Marionette 13-14 times in an overflow. I never even got close to completing it. I logged in early and did it once on the main server. Perfect run.
YMMV.
I’ve read the complaints of a lot of people, both here and elsewhere, regarding the nature of this last Living Story update. For the most part, these forums being what they are, the complaints typically center around the nature of the content, i.e., the Great Jungle Wurm world boss being hardcore raid content, and the Marionette being casual content.
My question to the playerbase is: Why can’t we have both? The thing players need to understand is that, from the outset, ArenaNet had decided that there was going to be a way for casual players to experience content, and a way for hardcore players to experience content. Heck, just look at the original concepts for Explorable dungeons: Specific builds, gear setups, food, and maybe even classes were going to be REQUIRED to do explorable mode dungeons, not to mention having a chat program like TS. This idea was, eventually, scrapped in favor of making most explorable mode dungeons PUG-able.
This idea that EVERYBODY needs to be capable of doing all of the available content in the game has been executed, I believe, incorrectly. While everyone should have ACCESS to the game they paid for (no IRL cost-gating for content), and all content should be completable (no 5 second rage timers or something silly :P), there can, and should, exist difficult content that only the well-practiced and prepared teams can overcome. This gives people something to work towards, and truly rewards them for their effort.
“But wait!” you say, “I can’t do that content because X/Y/Z!” Well, guess what. I’m a casual player, too. I will probably never get above fractal 12, I will DEFINITELY never get full ascended gear, and I probably won’t ever beat Tequatl or the Great Jungle Wurm. But ya know what? That’s okay! Do you remember the first time you beat a video game, only to discover that you’d missed a whole bunch of side quests or bonus content? Did it cheapen the experience for you? Of course not! It only made you more excited to give it a go, and if you couldn’t, you left knowing that you’d still completed the game and had a blast. It might have even inspired you to play through again.
Now, that’s a lot to ask for from a MMOG, but I think that the idea of hardcore content should, and in some cases is, make a resurgence in GW2, not to the detriment of casual players, who should expect content for their skill level, but to empower those players who desire a greater challenge. Yes, sometimes a greater challenge requires gearing and playing a specific way, and that’s not always going to be for everyone. We, as casual players, need to accept that philosophy, and understand that there is content meant for us to “Play how we want”, and that there is content made for hardcore players to “Play how they want”, and that’s okay. Just don’t walk into a steakhouse and ask for chicken. :P
Figured I’d add my thoughts:
I’ve run this thing about 10-12 times since it started, and haven’t yet had a successful run. I’ve never wiped on a platform, and have always had my platform destroy the capacitor within the time limit. I’ve explained the mechanics to dozens of groups multiple times, and explained each champ on the fly as it may have been necessary. I support every lane, have immense lane pride, and cheer on everyone during the event.
That having been said, I find it MONUMENTALLY insulting that people show up to this event with 0 willingness to follow simple directions. I would like to win this thing at least once before it’s over, and at the rate I’m going I may not get to. It seems that, no matter what I do, someone always decides to ignore the people shouting directions while they flail about wildly and inevitably fail an almost flawless platform fight. For the most part I keep my cool, but sometimes it’s like a slap in the face when people do the exact opposite of what you spent 10 minutes explaining before the fight.
I actually really enjoy the new spiked armor. It MAKES the set, imo. The combination of condition damage and power/prec/crit is okay, but against the right enemies (anything with multi-attacks), such as harpies, anything with a flurry ability, or those flamethrower flame-legion guys, the retaliation is just BRUTAL, you have the toughness to sit there and take it, and you’re dishing out moderate damage yourself the whole time.
I have been toying around with the current meta build using this gear instead of the standard zerkers, and can say I’ve been pretty pleased. I picked up an axe, and when you’re sitting on over 100% crit damage with a decent crit chance you can actually hit pretty hard and maintain a semblance of sustainable decent damage. I’m not getting anything like what a full zerker gets, but I range from 2/3 to 3/4 the damage, which is absolutely fine with me.
That’s exactly what I thought. Just the kind of thing to raise the ancient evils from their slumber.
I think you’ve got it MOSTLY right. My current theory is that you’re right about the clockwork Jaeger. Don’t forget that the ground pounders aren’t necessarily meant for that giant worm, though. That’s just a side effect. They seem to be placed all over Tyria and, with the hints we’ve gotten from the Thaumanova Reactor fractal, are likely placed at key points meant to agitate the Ley Lines of Tyria. What do the dragons do? They siphon magic from the overloading Ley Lines, which means Scarlet is either: A) Luring the dragons from the far corners of Tyria closer to central Tyria, which would be absolutely DEVASTATING for the world as we know it, or B ) Awakening a new dragon that we haven’t seen yet. It could very well be either of those two, but we have had the most MINOR of hints that it could be Primordus being stirred up from the depths of Tyria, so there’s that. On the OTHER hand, we have had many events which have to do with the ocean, specifically around the arrival of the Karka being pushed from their homeland in Southsun by something. Now, we DO know that Canach had something to do with that AFTER the fact, but what about the original Karka Invasion? What caused them to invade Lion’s Arch? Well…
IF the Jaeger idea proves correct, then the real terror won’t actually be from the ground, but from the depths of the ocean, which COULD mean the reveal of Bubbles, who has actually been built up a fair bit for some time now. Scarlet does use the words horror and terror quite a bit, both have been used in frequent context with the unknown water dragon, who will likely tear scarlet’s little “Jaeger-tron” to pieces.
But THEN we have the notion that Scarlet has been experimenting with the Toxic Alliance. The idea that the hallucinatory spores are need for drifting is, no offense :P, creative, but a little TOO farfetched. Everything that Scarlett has been working on has been for direct application of the research gained: The Sky Pirates provided the airship tech and power systems, and the Molten Alliance provided the ground pounders and fused technology, so where does this bio-tech mesmeric stuff fit in? To be honest, I’m not really sure. The Toxic Hybrid, if I felt magi-scientifically minded, seemed to be a means of testing magic of a specific type, one that directly correlates with the dragons themselves, that of Mesmeric/Chaos magic. We also know that Scarlet first experimented with this magic in the Thamanova reactor, specifically in conjunction with the Ley Lines, which obviously didn’t turn out too well for them.
Now, it may be that even the Elder Dragons can be effected by Scarlett’s spores, since the spores are a chaos-magical creation. Could Scarlett be attempting to infect a dragon with spores in order to study the physically manifested hallucinations? After all, what does a Dragon fear? Or, perhaps, she thinks she can use the spores to directly weaken the dragon’s influence due to its mind-altering properties. Regardless, I think that, out of everything, this is the most difficult one to explain, and hopefully we’ll get a sense of it soon enough. XD
They used my title, though, so make of that what you will :P
Seriously, though, I actually support the people that want to keep the zerker meta. These are people that want their skill in PvE rewarded by playing builds that can capitalize on it, and I’d like to see SOME content remain rewarding for these players. I just think there should be alternatives.
Merged! Gah. That was really confusing. >_>
The big problem with having boss’es with complex mechanic and better AI is that this is a MMO not a PS4 game that you finish once and never play again. You are going to redo everything hundreds of time in Guild Wars 2, kill the same boss hundred of times, that’s why people come up with tactic that work 99% of the time. This way we regularize the runs, it’s the only way people are going to repeat the content over and over. What happen when boss mechanic get complicated, people just won’t repeat them, look at TA aether path, it’s probably one of the most profitable path, and takes 25 mins with my group, but people don’t bother because the ooze part is random (tactic involve but things can go wrong at any time) and the last boss is a mess for most PuGs.
1) I’m not advocating replacing EVERY dungeon in the game with something new, different, and more challenging. I’m advocating adding in some content that IS extremely challenging, and might even require specific builds from every profession. We should actually KEEP paths like COF 1 for people that want that fun, speed-clear reward. Those are great things to have. But we need something that says “full zerkers is not the easiest solution to this problem”, and we need a way of doing it that doesn’t involve directly nerfing those stats.
2) I don’t particularly care if this content is only played once by some people. This content should be fun and rewarding for the players that take the time and effort to do it, and IF they do it multiple times, then they’ll be summarily rewarded for their work (via cool gear, maybe even dungeon specific, and lootz). You forget: ArenaNet originally intended for Explorable Mode dungeons to be so difficult that you needed something like TeamSpeak and a specific party build to coordinate inside with bosses, etc. When that changed, got nerfed, w/e, I don’t know, but I think that idea needs to make a comeback.
@Izaya: I never said anything like support thieves applying equal healing or buffs to a guardian. They can provide interesting types of support, from long group stealth uptime to 10 second boss perma-lockdown. My point is not that they should be identical, but that the TYPES of support they can provide be equal.
I’m also not advocating that we bring back tank and healer archetypes. ANet originally stated that they wanted a new trinity of damage, support, and control, roles which could be filled by any class in its own unique style (terrormancer Control, thief stealth/venoms, DPS guardian, etc.). The idea would be that you COULD find a group of players of any class, and they would be able to easily switch into the needed role for different dungeon paths, depending on the path. I’m also, again, not advocating changing most current dungeon paths. We need to have something for those that enjoy speed-clear zerker runs. But we need something that also requires a bit more planning and foresight. The changes I’m proposing aren’t geared at making you wait for hours for a PUG; they’re geared towards making you come in with a coordinated team that’s ready to take care of some hardcore content. That may not be for everybody, but why should it?
(edited by Manijin.3428)
@Zax: That’s true, but only to a certain extent. For example, I, and my friends, do not gravitate to the fastest content that gives the best rewards. We gravitate towards content that’s fun. Right now, that’s Fractals and sPvP. Tomorrow it might be getting the Dungeon Master title. Next week, it’ll DEFINITELY be the Living Story. There’s nothing wrong with redesigning SOME content to cater to different parts of the player base.
@Izaya: Hence the importance of having multiple viable builds for every character, and being willing to change your build depending on the needs of the party. What if a support thief could provide the same level of support in a dungeon as a dedicated support guardian? It might even be more optimal in some dungeons than in others! Why not keep some dungeons set up the way they are for speed clears and easy runs, and retune some of the others for greater time investment and rewards? They don’t even have to be THAT much better; just enough to compensate for a bit of the time and repairs during the run. I actually don’t mind waiting for condi characters or support or w/e. Dungeons were originally supposed to be hardcore content that might require specific builds between different classes anyways. I’d like to see changes that harken back to that, rather than give up entirely on the notion.
Such QQ.
Much whining.
Wow.
Seriously, nobody does CoF P1 because it’s that fun (it is fun, but still): They do it because it gives high rewards for the time invested. I’m not talking about making farming paths for people to compete with CoF; I’m talking about making dungeons with really specific, interesting mechanics that encourage group variety and build diversity without needing to nerf existing builds into the ground.
I’d also like these dungeons to be really tough. As it stands, you can do MOST of the dungeons in the game, with a few minor exceptions, with a PuG and finish it. It may not be a decent amount of time, but you can. I’d like to see new mechanics incorporated into more difficult content that actually REQUIRES heavy amounts of teamwork and coordination. Fractals does that, to an extent, but you’ve gotta go through it SO many times before you need that that I’m not sure if it counts. >_>
Idea! A dungeon path with NPCs that either A) Do metric tons of damage, or B ) Provide some sort of phenomenal protection super-buff. NPCs generally aren’t even worth considering in a big boss fight, but if they were WORTH keeping alive, having a support/healing oriented character might even be PREFERABLE.
And yeah, I understand that the chances of this changing anything are slim, but all it takes is one snowball to get the ball rolling.
Alright, I know people are up in arms about the recent statements made by ArenaNet regarding changing the PvE meta, but I wanted to talk about the good that could come of it, and how exactly we would like to see this change come about.
Now, obviously, we don’t wanna see mechanics that simply punish players with low HP pools, or require an infinite number of dodges, or something else equally ridiculous. Rather, we should talk about, and give ideas, that might lead towards a dungeon style that rewards build diversity.
So, here’s the question: What do you think might change the game in such a way as to promote build diversity within dungeon groups?
I’m gonna go ahead and start with a few ideas of my own, which you may, or may not, comment on as you see fit: :P
1) As it stands, dungeons follow a set pattern. Trash, Boss, Trash, Boss, repeat. This isn’t a bad thing, but there is no variety, typically, within the pieces of this pattern that encourage various build types. What if, say, there was a part of a dungeon which required the party to split up, either 2-3 or 1-4, or even multiple smaller groups, each of which requires the others to proceed to the next area? Some of the various split-ups might even require specific builds, like one path requiring a tankier character to survive a powerful series of unavoidable traps while performing X action, or one path having a stone-hide bear that can only be damaged by conditions.
2) Bosses can have interesting mechanics, as we’ve seen, but we need a reason to BE tough, or have condition damage, or heal allies that pertains to the mechanics of the bosses. This may come as a surprise, but why not take a lesson from (gasp!) PvP?
We have this capture point/king of the hill system in place, and various mechanics that could be effective, like cannons, trebuchets, Asuran Megalasers… why aren’t we using them? I mean, I get that we’re in a small 5 man group, but you can still throw a little spectacle in there :P. Maybe we can do something cool, like have allies capture and HOLD points that, every few seconds, fire a barrage of damage at the boss, but again, require a tougher character to hold. Not ONLY would this encourage having at least 1 tough character, but it also makes sPvP more intuitive to new players, who can understand the concept of “stand here and hold the point against assault”, and even have a little practice at it.
What if we had physical-immune illusions that damaged the players, but could be popped by condition damage (or maybe even… CC) and deal damage or inflict controlling effects on enemies or bosses, or even have it be the main mechanic in a puzzle.
The biggest problem, as I see it, is finding a way to make healing, especially in a group setting, have a big impact on the overall dungeon progression. I mean, boons give obvious aid, but how do you make over-the-top healing contribute without being overpowered? I’m gonna be honest: I don’t know. I’d love to see some ideas, though!
(edited by Moderator)
So, let me get this straight:
You’re upset because your Necromancer wasn’t able to 1v4 for about 10 seconds, or an EASY 2v3 because a player used a long cooldown elite skill that you could’ve dodged, or whose skills you could have used to escape the situation…
And you’re complaining that Moa is OP?
I’m not saying that Necromancer is overpowered at all, but you certainly seem to be making a case for it.
Also, he said Moa isn’t intended to have counterplay ONCE IT CONNECTS. That’s like saying “Life Blast has no counterplay once it connects, and is therefore broken! Nerf!”
/facepalm
Dodge. Use Moa skills to evade. Long Cooldown elite.
I watched a Necromancer go 2v1 like it was a joke with Lich form recently. QQ
I’ve been running full celestials for a while now. Sword/Shield & Longbow, but I also keep a Greatsword, Rifle, and Mace on me to change depending on the situation. That’s mostly because I run a primarily defensive trait build with supplements to Power and Precision to even them out. 0/10/30/30/0, typically with retaliation trait and either shout heals or banner regen, depending on the group composition, mostly because I feel like all that Healing Power goes to waste otherwise :P. Extra bleed duration keeps my damage up there, and I can always swap it in condi-heavy groups. I run Assassin’s marks on my armor for the extra crit damage and the boost to precision to keep my crit chance up, and use Bloodlust sigil and the 150 power to all allies to keep my power up. It’s been pretty great, and I never feel like I need to regear for anything.
I ran AC at level 30 with a friend of mine, also level 30. No 80s in the group. Ran exp in our 40s, again, no 80s.
I also did Fractal 1 with a level 7 and two mid 30 characters. It was fine. People who complain or kick you are speed runners. It’s a certain group. Start your own, or look for Noob Friendly groups.
1) The Guild Wars are hardly obscure.
2) You CAN make a sequel to something and make a title that is the same, but with a small difference. Heck, look at most films that have sequels associated with them. Same universe, different story. Its okay, guys.
3) The in-game definition of a Guild is a small-ish group of capable adventurers that generally stick together for one common goal. This is all OVER the freakin’ place in the game. Technically, sPvP, dungeons, and small-scale WvW activity IS Guild Activity.
Now, all that having been said, I do agree that some sort of Guild versus Guild gameplay would be an interesting addition to the game. I just don’t like that everyone treats the dev’s like they’re liars when they clearly aren’t.
My best friend and I started running fractals again recently. When we got our first dredge fractal, he groaned, because he remembered it being AWFUL. I showed him how to do it, and it was easy. There were a few parts we hadn’t done before, but again: They were easy. I don’t know why people complain about this one. It’s not THAT difficult, and it SHOULD be difficult at higher levels.