Guild Wars 2

I gave three gold to a new player the other day.

SynfulChaot.3169:

McSlaughter.1567:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Farmers don’t create anything from thin air.

Everything else in your post is arguable but this is not. Farmers, like anyone else who plays the game, generate gold from outside of the existing money pool by getting money from both coin drops and by selling drops to the merchant. This money comes from nowhere and is added into the existing economy, causing more overall gold to be added.

Of course this is true of anyone that plays the game, but farmers do so intensively over extended periods of time which can cause dramatic devaluing when you take countless people all doing this simultaneously.

Unfortunately, if you say that farmers are a drain on the economy you are also saying that all players are as well as the goods are generated identically for both.

I actually explicitly said that in my post, but I also said that people who farm (not like gold farmers who sell gold for money in the real world) in mass numbers (such as in the instance of COF p1) over extended periods of time have a negative effect on the economy.

On a small-scale level, where most players are concerned, this is not an issue. But when you have countless people all farming simultaneously for extended periods of time in an easily accessible form (COF p1 and etc.) you will see a general trend of devaluing in currency because so much currency is being generated out of nothing so quickly, causing currency to devalue and prices to inflate.

Do you understand now?

SynfulChaot.3169:

Yes, it has. And it’s still wrong and the reason the current world economy is kittened.

No, the reason the current world economy is messed up is because of an almost infinite list of other factors. There is no one thing, such as flipping and trading, that can be pinpointed and corrected to fix the world’s economy, and really it is totally irrelevant in this discussion because how the economy works in reality and how it works in a video game are, despite sharing some similarities on a fundamental level, is very different.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Farmers don’t create anything from thin air.

Everything else in your post is arguable but this is not. Farmers, like anyone else who plays the game, generate gold from outside of the existing money pool by getting money from both coin drops and by selling drops to the merchant. This money comes from nowhere and is added into the existing economy, causing more overall gold to be added.

Of course this is true of anyone that plays the game, but farmers do so intensively over extended periods of time which can cause dramatic devaluing when you take countless people all doing this simultaneously.

The reason that video game economies don’t work like real economies is because the currency is generated out of nothing. Even currency in the real world has to be printed out of existing resources (paper, metal, etc.), then given value by some other “store of value” (such as gold or other precious metals), and then produced by manpower on some level, and therefore has a cost to generate. No one in the game world pays for the NPC merchant’s ability to buy your greens and blues, no one in the game world puts that coin in the pockets of all those mobs you kill. That money literally comes from nothing and is put into the economy. This is true of all players, but farmers are where the problem lies because it can so severely impact the economy of the game due to quickly generating these funds out of a resource that exists outside of the game world and does not have any value in the game’s economy (That is to say, a player’s time invested).

SynfulChaot.3169:

McSlaughter.1567:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Possibly because some of us hate TP flipping and think it should be disallowed. I consider all TP flippers to be unrepentant leeches on the system and you will never be able to convince me otherwise.

How about the fact that TP flipping in a roundabout way of doing so helps to stabilize the economy because all the money that is put into it also comes out. So instead of the game generating gold (which causes more overall currency to become available, i.e. the value of the currency goes down), players trade gold and the same overall amount of gold remains in the game but it simply trades owners (just like business in the real world!) instead of being generated out of thin air.

Essentially look at it this way: Farming areas in the game for gold is like printing more money. The more money that is printed devalues it in the economy. Trading on the trading post does not generate money, but simply changes where in the game that money is held.

Imagine that participating in the Trading Post on a meta-level is like trading stock or investing, and imagine that that system in of itself is a part of the game to some. Some people truly enjoy gaining money by mathematical analysis and quickly making high-risk decisions, and the fact that such an element as that can exist in this game that is fundamentally about killing baddies is sort of a really cool thing to imagine.

That and the fact that these traders are not in any way devaluing the currency of the game world, other than by taking money from people who have generated that gold. In reality, it’s the farmers who are the true plagues of the system, as they are only serving to make the poor poorer and the rich richer by feeding the system.

Yeah. Think about that. Isn’t economics in video games cool?

No. It does not stabilize anything. It purely takes money away from people. Without those leeches players would be able to buy things at a lower price and sellers would be able to make more. Instead the leeches buy what the players should be able to then sell them to those players at an increased price. Those leeches simply siphon money out of the system to the detriment of all others. That adds nothing of value and simply steals profit and savings from people who actually want to play the game.

Farmers are not the plagues. They at least provide a service. Getting you the goods that you don’t want to farm for, but that you still need. Flippers provide nothing of value for anyone but themselves. They are pure leeches.

I respectfully disagree because I see it differently, but I can understand where you’re coming from. I’d try to explain in further detail what I was trying to express but it’s really difficult to put into words without making a really, really long post.

However, I disagree that farmers provide a service. They simply generate more gold from thin air, which causes the overall value of gold to decrease. This in turn causes prices to go up.

I also disagree that traders cause the prices of items in the game to go up. Look at any commonly traded thing and you will see from the start of the game there has been a very steady and significant decrease in its value (for the most part). This is true for ectoplasm, all other materials, rare items, and etc. Only very rare things have a high value (as one would assume!) and that is no fault of TP enthusiasts.

You should look at some graphs on gw2spidy.net or a similar resource, and then reconsider how you perceive TP traders. In reality, I think they may actually (in a general way, there are of course exceptions like in any system!) help to steadily over time devalue items and make them more accessible. Farmers cause more money to be generated from nothing, TP traders simply exchange money that is already extant in the game’s economy.

This is all speculation and open to debate, but that’s just how I see it.

Addendum: I also believe that ArenaNet should not interfere with the Trading Post by setting market limitations. That would create a sort of government controlled market that would only create issues I imagine, rather than allowing players to freely trade as they see fit.

Uther Deathhand.1570:

SynfulChaot.3169:

Uther Deathhand.1570:

Maliel.8362:

Where is your god now farmers?!!

Its called the black lion trading company. I mean that is the last place that people can make a lot of money and anet can’t nerf that right?……Right? I don’t really see why people freak out so much about CoF 1 farming but no one thinks about Tp flipping. I guess its because technically TP flipping actually takes money out of the game while CoF puts money in.

Possibly because some of us hate TP flipping and think it should be disallowed. I consider all TP flippers to be unrepentant leeches on the system and you will never be able to convince me otherwise.

Yeah as others like yourself have said i dont think the most rewarding thing in the game should require a spreadsheet, and technically you are not even playing the game. The problem is anet can’t change it in anyway with out messing up the whole system. i mean are they going to limit how many trades each person can do each day? Or put a money cap on the number of trades?

Technically you are playing the game! EVE Online is a game about battling ships but the meta-game is all about corporations and financial wealth and alternative ways to gain that wealth and value.

Trading on the trading post in a real, ever-persistent market is just as much a part of the game in a MMO as slaying rats in the forest.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Uther Deathhand.1570:

Maliel.8362:

Where is your god now farmers?!!

Its called the black lion trading company. I mean that is the last place that people can make a lot of money and anet can’t nerf that right?……Right? I don’t really see why people freak out so much about CoF 1 farming but no one thinks about Tp flipping. I guess its because technically TP flipping actually takes money out of the game while CoF puts money in.

Possibly because some of us hate TP flipping and think it should be disallowed. I consider all TP flippers to be unrepentant leeches on the system and you will never be able to convince me otherwise.

How about the fact that TP flipping in a roundabout way of doing so helps to stabilize the economy because all the money that is put into it also comes out. So instead of the game generating gold (which causes more overall currency to become available, i.e. the value of the currency goes down), players trade gold and the same overall amount of gold remains in the game but it simply trades owners (just like business in the real world!) instead of being generated out of thin air.

Essentially look at it this way: Farming areas in the game for gold is like printing more money. The more money that is printed devalues it in the economy. Trading on the trading post does not generate money, but simply changes where in the game that money is held.

Imagine that participating in the Trading Post on a meta-level is like trading stock or investing, and imagine that that system in of itself is a part of the game to some. Some people truly enjoy gaining money by mathematical analysis and quickly making high-risk decisions, and the fact that such an element as that can exist in this game that is fundamentally about killing baddies is sort of a really cool thing to imagine.

That and the fact that these traders are not in any way devaluing the currency of the game world, other than by taking money from people who have generated that gold. In reality, it’s the farmers who are the true plagues of the system, as they are only serving to make the poor poorer and the rich richer by feeding the system.

Yeah. Think about that. Isn’t economics in video games cool?

Gnat.9405:

You understand that the dungeon path reward is daily

Technically the current reward system is also daily, it just faces diminishing returns every subsequent time you complete it until the daily reset (60 tokens first time, 30 the next, etc.).

I imagine this new system will work similarly to the old one with diminishing gold returns. Even if this is incorrect and you will only get a gold reward for the first completion of a unique path every day, you’re still making a lot more money this way than in the old way for those who simply do maybe two or three runs a day.

Therefore it benefits everyone except those who do nothing but play COF p1 all day, and those people really aren’t “playing” the game anymore.

Mia Lunarfang.5826:

I didn’t take everything into consideration when I formed this topic, (in other words i’m an idiot) I abstain from further debate.

I’m glad you have seen the error of your ways and I hope that you enjoy your new-found free time in the beautiful world that is Guild Wars 2 now that you have been freed from the horrible shackles that is COF p1.

Gnat.9405:

The problem is they are eliminating a storage method for X amount of gold from total.

Martin Kerstein.3071:

Mia Lunarfang.5826:

Martin Kerstein.3071:

To answer a few of the questions:

• Pristine Fractal Relics are not included. I am not a designer so I cannot accurately comment on why they are not included.
• At this point the wallet supports core currencies, not seasonal/festival/temporary currencies. At this time we have no plans to add those to the wallet.
• Jugs of Karma will remain an item and can be used as usual. The karma you gain from them will then be stored in the wallet and will be accountwide.

And the gold collecting achievement, is it still possible?

Yes, the “Golden” title can still be acquired, simply by having 200g, since depositing coins into the bank is no longer possible.

Ah, this totally refutes my idea above. kitten , I really hope they reconsider adding the bank gold storage back in the game before they implement it, that would be the best of both worlds!

Mia Lunarfang.5826:

Lodovicus.1562:

Mia Lunarfang.5826:

Because we cant all afford to be glued to the game 24/7. Where’s your life now dungeon trolls?

Confused. I thought that is what farming was.

But I said earlier that I never farm, I just want a dungeon I can go in, maybe 1-3 times a day if I need cash.

If you’re only going in one to three times a day, you will get even more gold in this new system than you did in the old one. Three runs in COF will maybe yield you 4g at the max, if you’re lucky with drops. Gold yield alone is only like 2-3g for three runs (which could take you anywhere from 20 to 30 minutes depending on your group).

Now one run (maybe seven or eight minutes, ten at most?) will yield you about the same in literally a third or so of the time, plus the boss and other champions in the dungeon will have better rewards! I’m sure diminishing returns will apply, but you’ll still be getting at least a gold on your second run I would imagine.

I don’t understand why you’re complaining when this system benefits you and you don’t even realize it.

Addendum: Hell, learn how to farm p2 and you’ll be getting double or triple your gold in the same time you spend every day! Now you can spend even more of your time going out and exploring alternative routes of revenue and income because your same amount of time you spend now will be freed up by not having to spend it all running a single dungeon over and over again.

Lonami.2987:

Lodovicus.1562:

Isn’t it account bound already in a sense?

Any character can deposit their gold into the bank to be withdrawn by any other character on the same account. This just seems to cut out all the faffing.

Each character having his gold and being able to store gold in the bank help you organize your economy and your expenses. Also, it’s easier to control if you’re losing/gaining money with a single character. Being able to put money in the bank so you don’t spend it is good, too.

Separated is more organized.

I think the solution for this should (if it isn’t already) be keeping the ability to store money in your bank as a sort of savings account. So you’ll have your overall gold that will be stored in your account wallet, but you’ll be able to store what you choose into your bank if you’re worried about spending it all on accident.

I’m the kind of guy who always keeps set amounts of money on each of his characters (2g, usually) because I don’t want to tempt myself with spending all of my hard-earned gold on an impulse. I think if they keep the functionality of the bank so that we can store money that won’t be automatically drawn from upon purchasing something, this will solve everyone’s problems.

Mia Lunarfang.5826:

Maliel.8362:

Where is your god now farmers?!!

Its interesting that no farmers inter the forum, makes me wonder why i’m arguing this point. Still, I don’t do dungeons everyday, and I certainly wont do them all day, I still believe there should be a cash cow for fast cash. Because we cant all afford to be glued to the game 24/7. Where’s your life now dungeon trolls?

When you turn the game into logging in every day to max out rewards playing a single path of a single dungeon of a massive content-filled game, are you really playing a game anymore? Or just pushing buttons to watch a counter go up every day?

I think some people need to reinvent their definition of a few words in the gaming industry, most importantly “content,” “value,” and “fun.”

Sincerely,
A COF p1 farmer who is glad that COF p1 is dying off.

Lodovicus.1562:

But does this mean all classes apart from Mesmer and Warrior will find themselves unwelcome in every dungeon group instead of just Citadel of Flame path 1?

No, because different dungeons call for different strategies and you can’t just blitz through all of them as easily as COF p1.

Maliel.8362:

Where is your god now farmers?!!

In the Abaddon fractal. Vote Evon!

Mia Lunarfang.5826:

McSlaughter.1567:

Mia Lunarfang.5826:

Really, where else are we to farm then? They destoryed Orr, and now CoF, there is no available way to make relatively quick income.

That’s why they included larger dungeon rewards for each completion of a unique path each day. Now instead of mindlessly playing through the same path over and over again to get gold, you will get (incrementally more) gold as you complete multiple paths. It encourages you to go play more content of the game (still dungeons, if you please) rather than just repeatedly doing the easiest/currently highest-yielding path of a single dungeon. You can still farm, but now you just need to farm more than one thing to get better yields. Adapt and diversify.

its not per path, but per dungeon

Uhm, no:

Each day when you finish a unique path for any explorable or story dungeon, you’ll receive a bonus reward for completion—1 to 3 gold for explorable dungeons depending on their length and difficulty, 50 silver for story dungeons.

Can you read?

Mia Lunarfang.5826:

Really, where else are we to farm then? They destoryed Orr, and now CoF, there is no available way to make relatively quick income.

That’s why they included larger dungeon rewards for each completion of a unique path each day. Now instead of mindlessly playing through the same path over and over again to get gold, you will get (incrementally more) gold as you complete multiple paths. It encourages you to go play more content of the game (still dungeons, if you please) rather than just repeatedly doing the easiest/currently highest-yielding path of a single dungeon. You can still farm, but now you just need to farm more than one thing to get better yields. Adapt and diversify.

Wow, I really want some interaction with the developers roleplaying and the other epic components that Naginto was talking about in GW2. That’d be incredible. Personally I had always hoped for something like a dragon flying into Lion’s Arch or some heavily populated town totally out-of-the-blue unlike the dragon world events (like The Shatterer and Tequatl), but what Naginto described sounds even more kitten, especially because it came to be a persistent thing.

It’s called Living Story for a reason. Other parts of the game need some liveliness brought to them too. If all the content stayed sandwiching on top of each other then all the regions of the game would be “alive” and subsequently dead because the jam for this metaphorical sandwich would be spread too thin.

Tengu is easily the most likely choice.

Charr Engineer looks great, but only if you can find the right gear for him. Charr in general are hard to find really good-looking armor for (the bread-n’-butter armor generally doesn’t look so good), but if you can find a really cool and obscure skin then you can make a Charr look truly kitten.

Kalea.9167:

You might argue ’you’re getting a jug of karma and laurenl and stuff for doing it, quit your whining!’ I’d say, I have stacks of jugs of karma and coins, haven’t used them; I was doing the daily and monthly achievements for the sense of having accomplished something during the course of gameplay that was going that extra step.

Sounds like you should start taking two or three extra steps instead. After all, it sounds like you like going that extra mile anyway. I feel like everyone is blowing this all out of context over one daily achievement… We haven’t even seen all the different randomized rotations.

Also, I love that you say that it has become a “calculated task” when beforehand it was literally fulfilling the exact same requirements every day, as if repeatedly doing that wasn’t a grindfest… At least ArenaNet is trying to spice things up rather than leaving us with the same boring requirements every day.

I’m not going to bother anymore, no one is ever happy with change until three days later where they just accept it. It’s the same way with YouTube and Facebook’s UI changes: People just get the hell over it and move on and don’t even remember what it used to be like in the first place.

Binny.7519:

As a Ranger I demand that all my pets get a dodge ability so that I can complete the dodge daily without having to turn my pet off. As it is, I have to put my pet on passive and get in close and tight with my shortbow.

I feel silly doing it. But some would say I should feel silly picking a ranger anyway. I dislike the new dailies.

You can always use one of your four other characters as well if it’s really that much of a problem. Personally I did it with my ranger and my pet was in combat, it’s not that hard unless you’re purposefully trying to do all fifteen in the same instance.

I don’t think dailies are meant to be grinded in fifteen minutes like everyone currently thinks they are. Some of the daily requirements are stupid and buggy (looking at you, kill combos that robbed me of my dailies.) but I love the fact that they’re random every day instead of having to do the same thing every single day, making it feel like less of a grindfest and making me feel like I worked for the laurels I got.

People just hate change if it’s not handing them the game on a silver platter.

hooma.9642:

Bullfrog.1324:

The sPvP daily rewards have been different from the PvE rewards since they were introduced. Why would they offer the same rewards now? Why didn’t you complain that the sPvP daily didn’t give karma like the PvE dailies? Methinks the OP is just another person who wants to have something to complain about…

no. i just play 80% pvp.. with better rewards i would play less pvp then pve and both on the same part. but im forced to play it whole or not, cause everytime i play spvp i loose progress to other players regarding gold, gear and other stuff. i cant level new chars with crafting cause i dont has the money or needed items to start. so all i can do is if i dont want play spvp running in empty areas or getting zerged in wvw… super fun..

another note should be maybe why PvE gets so much and PvP gets nearly nothing?
actual its if play pve u get progress. u play wvw u get progress. u has ur progress of pve in wvw and vice versa.. u can go in pvp and dont loose anything cause u get all to be competetive. but that players that want play all aspects of the game or are maybe more pvp but not completly pvp are kittened..

This is so incoherent and baseless I don’t even know where to begin picking away at this to prove you wrong…