Guild Wars 2

To everyone complaining about having no condition removal and damage control without stealth,

Other solutions to clearing conditions are:

1. Hide in Shadows (Dot removal)
2. Withdrawal and Roll for Initiative (Movement hindering)
3. Infiltrators return (Clears 1)
4. Shadow Step (Clears 3)
5. Pain Response in Acrobatics (Dot removal)
6. Fleet of Foot in Acrobatics (Cripple and Weakness)
7. Signet of Agility (Clears 1 for each ally)
8. Daggerstorm and Smoke Wall (Many condition based builds utilize projectiles)
9. Avoiding the attack that applies conditions altogether using a method listed below

It should also be noted that shadows embrace still clears 2 conditions if the thief has 3 in shadow arts or greater

Other solutions to avoiding damage are:

1. Dodge rolling, Flanking strike, Withdraw, Disabling Shot, and Death Blossom to evade damage. Can be enhanced through using Agility signet, Feline Grace, and initiative gain traits
2. Shadow shot, blinding powder, tactical striking and Several utilities to blind the opponent
3. Hit and Run tactics using the many teleportation skills available to thief to either add or subtract distance, such as shadow shot and strike, infiltrators strike, arrow, and signet, along with stealing.

Many of you are talking as if thief can only go face without being able to chain stealth, when thief has so many ways to avoid taking a hit without relying heavily on stealth.

Thieves are supposed to be stealthy AND agile. Do not rely too much on either one

I feel like my point didn’t get across here

Yes there are bugs surrounding the change and yes the change may be a bug itself. I am not advocating that things stay as they are right now. But the idea of revealing for 2 seconds even if the player does not attack is a change that should be here to stay.

First I want to make sure everyone understands I play almost exclusively as a thief, so this change affects me too.

So, as many have probably discovered, a player will now be revealed for 2 seconds exiting stealth if they do not attack during it. It may or may not be a bug since it was not announced in the update post. It also has other bugs associated with it, like shadow refuge no longer stealthing as long as it used to due to its pulsing nature. Anyways, the concept of revealing even if the player does nothing is a good and needed change.

The thing I want you all to understand here is that this idea does not hinder aggressive play, and it hurts strategies that many people complain about. Using dagger/pistol for the purpose of regenerating in stealth will no longer work as it used to, and sword/dagger thieves will also be unable to immobilize and CnD repeatedly. The list can go on, such as timing CnD to stealth again without even giving the opponent a second to react, and even using it on an object or a mob in the world multiple times. The change isn’t even only limited to thieves. Mesmers will now have to wait before using veil twice.

The theme here is the change will only affect strategies that use stealth excessively to regenerate large amount of health, prolong an encounter, troll, or simply be a pain to fight.

Yes there are bugs surrounding the change and yes the change may be a bug itself. I am not advocating that things stay as they are right now. But the idea of revealing for 2 seconds even if the player does not attack is a change that should be here to stay.

TL:DR No more turtling in stealth, thoughts?

I can’t understand how the majority of this thread thinks p/p is awful and yet people call me cheese when I kill them with it.

Thief certainly can’t kill the fastest, but they can spike damage in succession the best. warriors, rangers, and elementalists can do far more damage faster if they build for it, but in more of an all or nothing kinda way.

I agree this change was uncalled for, but this kind of thing happens all the time and builds come and go. The problem was that it was too easy to kill players by simply using 3 multiple times. Of course, this isn’t true for players of a higher caliber, but to be frank the average opponent is, well, average.

So that means as we’ve done countless times before, it’s time to adapt! Whether that means a change of playstyle or a completely different build, we can’t give up on S/D yet. Where would we all be if we ditched when infiltrator’s return lost it’s stunbreak?

Of course if you truly think S/D is done for, there are still 6 other weapon sets to experiment with. I just can’t wrap my head around Arenanet actually revoking this change. Here’s to being the most hated class eh?

Hey forum, here’s a list I compiled of all the nerfs this class has received. Please note that this list doesn’t include bug fixes that weakened the skill (Like bountiful theft no longer applying vigor twice) or anything that was changed before the game’s official release date.

September 2012:

• Heartseeker: Reduced damage of the 100%-50% threshold by 20%. Damage thresholds changed. Old: 100%-66%, 66%-33%, 33%-0%. New: 100%-50%, 50%-25%, 25%-0%.
• Descent of Shadows: This trait’s effect can now only trigger once every 8 seconds.

October 2012:

• Pistol Whip: Reduced damage by 15%.
• Assassin’s Signet: This skill has been updated to grant 15% damage for 5 attacks rather than 50% damage for one attack.
• Whirling Axe: This skill has had evasion removed from the ability and has a missile-reflection effect applied to the whirl effect.

November 2012:

• Dancing Dagger: This skill’s damage has been reduced by 50%.
• Cluster Shot: This skill’s damage is reduced by 15% in PvP.
• Cloak and Dagger: This skill’s damage has been reduced by 33% in PvP only.

December 2012:

• Fear (Stolen item— Skull): This skill now works like the warrior skill “Fear Me.” It will now actually hit its range, but also have a falloff on fear duration based on distance.
• Instinctual Response: Now triggers at 10% damage instead of 20%.(Can be either nerf or buff)
• Piercing Shot: This skill is no longer able to fire at enemies behind the player.

January 2013:

• Leeching Venoms: This trait no longer affects gadgets.
• Smoke Screen: This skill’s blinding pulse no longer follows the thief.

March 2013:

• Caltrops: Reduced duration from 15 seconds to 10 seconds. Now indicates its radius.
• Basilisk Venom skill: No longer immobilizes targets in addition to stunning them.

April 2013:

• Mug trait: Can no longer critically hit. Now heals the thief from a range of 1980 health to 2700 health. (Buff or nerf depending on wether you think healing makes up for no crits)
• Smoke Screen skill: No longer destroys unblockable missiles.
• Trick Shot skill: First arrow is no longer heat-seeking.

May 2013:

• Black Powder skill: No longer fires its projectile backward while moving. The field can still be generated.
• Shadow Return skill: No longer has infinite range.

June 2013:

• Cluster Bomb: Decreased the range set from 1200 to 900.
• Larcenous Strike: Increased the initiative cost to 2.
• Nine Tailed Strike: Increased the initiative cost from 3 to 5.
• Shadow Assault: Increased the initiative cost from 5 to 7.
• Shadow Return (Infiltrator Strike Toggle): This skill is no longer a stun breaker.

July 2013:

• Shadow Trap: This skill now has a maximum duration of 120 seconds.

October 2013:

• Destroy Shadow Trap: This skill now has a 1.5-second cast time. It plays an effect on the thief and on the trap location when it is being cast. Added 5 seconds of regeneration.
• Larcenous Strike: This skill now steals only 1 boon.
• Basilisk Venom: Petrify is now removed on stun break.

December 2013:

• Shadow Return on Sword. Renamed to Infiltrator’s return. Added a 1/4s cast time.
• Critical Strikes 15 – Opportunist. Increased trigger chance to 50%. Increase cooldown from 1s to 5s.
• Critical Strikes VIII – Signet Use. Reduced initiative gain from 2 to 1.
• Shadow Arts V – Infusion of Shadow – This trait functionality has been changed to “Gain initiative when you enter stealth.” 2 init.
• Acrobatics III – Vigorous Recovery. Reduced Vigor duration to 5s from 8s.
• Acrobatics IX – Quick Recovery. Reduced initiative gain from 2 to 1.
• Trickery 5 – Kleptomaniac. Reduce initiative gain from 3 to 2.
• Trickery IV – Flanking Strikes. Move to Master tier. (since it might hinder some builds)
  *Trickery VII – Bountiful Theft. Reduced vigor duration to from 15s to 10s.

April 2014:

• Pistol Whip has been split between PvP and PvE. It will now cost 6 initiative in PvP, while maintaining a 5 initiative cost in PvE.
• Disabling Shot (SB): Reduced the length of this skill’s evasion component from 100% of the skill’s duration to 64% of the skill’s duration—an overall reduction of .3 seconds.
• Choking Gas: Reduced the poison per pulse from 5 seconds to 3 seconds.

Depending on what exactly ability they’re using, Black Powder can give us near immunity to melee damage.

As stated above, melee attacks have long enough range to hit someone in black powder without being blinded, unless the user of the black powder is standing as far away from said attacker as possible while still being inside the ring, in which case the user cannot attack either.

Black Powder also hard-counters pretty much all Thief builds that rely on Cloak and Dagger.

Well, seeing as P/D is a ranged weapon, it wouldn’t have that much of a problem against D/P. D/D on the other hand can also easily win against D/P by simply being patient. Most likely any user of D/P will at some point use heartseeker to stealth, and that is the D/D user’s window. The D/D user can simply CnD when the D/Per heartseeks, and it will hit them as long as the D/Per was locked onto the D/D user. In a less likely case though, the D/P user might detarget the opponent to heartseek, sacrificing the damage of the heartseeker in return for safety and/or chaining. If that happens, then the D/D user just needs to predict the movements of the D/Per. A D/Per will always try to backstab the opponent, and in most cases as quickly as possible. That being said, it is more than likely that the said D/Per will located behind the D/D user, so he/she can just CnD behind themselves.

1. WvW

2. I don’t remember exactly but I think it was sometime in February 2013 or early March.

3. I’d say longer since I feel I’ve improved a lot and don’t expect death for every fight I enter.

4. I don’t think thieves are as much fun since launch due to all the nerfs. Don’t get me wrong, the nerfs were definitely deserved and I’m not complaining, but from what I’ve heard about launch, it sounds like a great time getting massive backstabs with assassin’s sig or using the super powerful pistol whip :p

5. I agree with the balance team for the most part. Most of their actions seem justified to me, especially with the recent patch. However, I think that they did give sword builds a lot more hate then they deserved.

I think it is a bug. I was dueling my sos friend and I noticed it happening. He said he was stuck with it for a while, so we looked into it. It definitely has something to do with throw feathers too.

We tested with the camp supervisor and found some weird results, apparently fighting some sort of npc triggers it? So the supervisor would hit us and the effect would happen when we were lower than 50% hp. We then proceeded to attack each other but found that it would occur only when we took a hit 10% or greater of our hp when below 50% hp, similar to instinctual response in the sense of the 10% threshold(though I’m not really sure where the 50% hp came from)
Then after letting the supervisor hit us a few more times it started occuring every hit for a short time, and then stopped again.

I’m thinking that it’s a bug that triggers when you fight some sort of specialized npc and then lingers on to other fights or something.

I think that in concept death blossom seems very double dagger-ish, but you’re right, what it actually does seems out of place. Unfortunately I don’t imagine Anet giving us interchangeable skills, so I guess just stick to using death blossom as a condi build lol.

Doxie’s idea is pretty kewl IMO also. If you don’t mind me asking, how high/low are we talking when you say low/massive damage? And how much vulnerability as well? I’m genuinely curious :p

I meant to imply I’d leave gaps between each so I can alternate >.>

Yea I do understand that too, D/D eles swap attunements a lot actually and if you run into ones that just auto attack on one of them everywhere then they probably don’t know what they’re doing…

Well first I’d like to point out I AM and ONLY am a thief.

Anyways, I don’t think your idea is entirely bad, the only thing that troubles me is that fact that this proposes giving us access to 4 independent steals. So combine that with steal related traits you got yourself a wind a little to strong to stand up to.

So, my better idea that you requested is as follows: YES revamp the stolen bundles, as most of them are useless with the exception of the warrior and thief steals, but retain only one steal slot.

Lets say for instance I am a d/d thief fighting a d/d ele:
The first thing I’d do is immediately steal to them to backstab, gaining a lasting fire field. Now I do this 3 more times for each of the 4 attunements. At this point I have a fire, water, lightning, and smoke (seeing as there is no closer earth combo field) lasting fields available. Id throw all 4 down, and can now use SB to easily stack might, water to heal considerably with each HS, lightning to DAZE with each HS, and smoke to stealth. So even if they manage to hit me against the many dazes, I would be able to simply full heal by HS’ing the water field a few times.

Zacchary.6183:

There. I clarified everything. You guys happy now?

Noooooooo… 5s is what I based my initial argument around and therefore still stands!

Okay, first, I think it’s definitely important to specify how long this short cooldown will be. Just that determines pretty much if this is a good idea or not. That being said, I’m going to assume short cooldown to prevent spam means something like 5 seconds.

Putting the stolen skills aside, here’s how I predict this would play out:
x/d thief: LOL 4 shadow steps geegee newb.
SOF thief: so ur tellin’ me I got 4 interrupts and that the first one will cd by the time I use the 4th one?
BT thief: what’s that? You have a boon? lol nope, ill just add it to my ridiculous pool of vigor.
HT thief: Hooray 4 extra stealth skills!
Mug thief: ahahaha now I have 5 heal skills!
Improv thief: W00T No more cooldowns!

Accounting for the stolen skills:
Warrior: Have fun being crippled for life
Necro: Sorry man, lemme just go ahead and turn your signet of spite into signet of all boons
Elementalist: Lasting water field? That’s a funny way to say perma regen and HS for full heal
Mesmer: Yay moar target independent stealth skills
Engineer: who’s got more caltrops, a pull, confusion, and a BLOCK skill? this guy!
Thief: yay! 4 more Refuges/Shadow steps!
Gaurdian: Oh you actually wanted to HIT me? I thought you just wanted to kill yourself to my infinite retaliation.

I think that some of the stolen skill ideas are good, like the Eles, Mesmers, and the Gaurdian, (Thief, Warr, and Engi are definitely a no-no though) However become OP with the addition of FOUR slots. Four just seems a little over the top to me regardless of how that would effect already present steal tactics. Which is why I must agree with the non-thief community on this one, in the sense that it’s OP

frans.8092:

Nema Tode.5637:

Forgive me if I read that wrong, but isn’t a reduced cooldown a buff?

Not with Last Refuge. Remember it’s that minor trait that automagically puts you in stealth a split second before your c&d hits. Would be a buff if they increased the cooldown to, say, 30 minutes.

Yea, I do. I admit sometimes it kills me too, but if you anticipate and trust it, it can work ya wonders.

Lucky Shot.7650:

You also forgot about this nerf, date 25th June 2013:

Last Refuge: Reduced the cooldown of this trait from 90 seconds to 60 seconds.

Forgive me if I read that wrong, but isn’t a reduced cooldown a buff?

Dakota.4591:

One nerf you left off the list, that I don’t remember when exactly it was changed, was when Lotus Venom was changed to have an internal cooldown as to how often it applies the weakness.

Thanks! It was in June and has been added to the list.

The reason that the Assassin’s Signet’s active ability seems underwhelming is because Anet had to nerf it from what it originally was, one strike with 50% extra, rather than 5 with 15%. 50% added damage to a backstab was unacceptable but Anet wasn’t gonna just destroy the whole thing, so this is the compromise.
Even as a thief, you gotta admit that 50% extra damage on a backstab is a little bit too much.

Rock.4019:

I was thinking of going with Sword and Dagger as primary weaponset & for backup dual pistols or shortbow. That way I could damage my opponent from range before closing in on melee range.

I think that you should just go straight into melee. One thing S/D excels at is quickly teleporting to your target and/or back through it’s second skill. That skill has the same range as any ranged attack available to the thief and also immobilizes giving you the opportunity to nail them with some sword strikes. S/D also has access to dancing dagger which can cripple foes if they try to run away, or you can just use that teleport again. By doing this, you’d have a free weaponset to fiddle with.

Well in Anet’s defense… rocks can be pretty mobile given the right conditions…

In all seriousness though, we got crazy mobility on sword skills, skills that INSTANTLY teleport us, skills that keep us from being seen(what cannot be seen cannot [easily] be followed) or if you’re feeling like burning up your init, just hs all over the place :p

Travlane.5948:

Nema Tode.5637:

Well IMO the outcome is as should be expected because greatsword warriors are supposed to be used for constantly damaging the opponent and should be capable of taking a few hits. Thieves on the other hand get their ridiculous dagger damage from the BURST skills, definitely not auto attacks. They are also meant to negate damage through evasion rather than resistance so by taking both of these away from the thief the warrior will no doubt win.

I think the conclusion we can draw from this is that a warrior when paired with a dagger thief who does not possess skills of evasion and/or bursting will probably win.

we arent talking skills. we are just relating basic dmg to hp/armor/toughness comparisons.

a thief is supposed to ahve superb dmg. at the very least it should get warrior close. if anet wants it balanced then they should be close in ALL classes. and by close i mean under 25% hp left by any winning class. in spvp its closer ill admit but still obvious that warrior has the best overall defense and skills/utilitiies. their skull crack alone is better than our basilisk venom that can be wiped clean with a blind. pfft. useless.

Well the thing is you CANT compare damage to hp/armor/tuffness effectively because yes, thieves are supposed to have superb damage, but this is through burst skills, hence the initiative system. If we actually had to WAIT to use skill 2-5, then auto attack would be much stronger as we would be forced to use it more. Since we are NOT forced to use it often at all, however, it hasnt been blessed with good damage like warriors greatsword who can only perform skills 2-5 once before waiting for its cd.

As for defense, since we have been gifted with very powerful burst skills that can be used in SUCCESSION, we decided to sell our armor instead of our souls

Zacchary.6183:

Nema Tode.5637:

Zacchary.6183:

Sanduskel.1850:

style.6173:

Sanduskel.1850:

They haven’t ruined the game. they’ve balanced it so that all players can enjoy it. Most thieves still enjoy their thief and will continue to enjoy playing it long after the December 10th patch. As anet said, the init change is a massive buff. You should trust them.

I sometimes wonder if you even play a thief since you don’t make sense most of the time. Initiative change is a buff for certain very specific builds. It is not a massive buff for all as you say.

Anet said it was a MASSIVE buff.

And you are foolish to believe them.

Assuming the infusion of shadow changes don’t fall under the subject of the initiative changes, then unless you use one of the few initiative supplements (such as signets of power) then this SHOULD be a pretty good buff. Anet has said they don’t want people relying on these supplements anyways: “The default rate of initiative regeneration was simply to low and was causing players to either take traits to suppliment it…This is something that has to change. What these changes intend to do is to increase the power of every single thief build that is not running these traits”

If you look at the big picture, it’s a nerf. About 60% of the traits that thieves have are situational if not a waste of a trait slot because most of the traits that are worth the slot increase initiative in some way.

Something anet DOES NOT understand is that half the time a thief chooses a trait it’s because there is nothing better to slot. Another thing that they do not understand is that when thieves run out of initiative their chance of dying skyrockets because most of a thief’s survival comes from the spamming of blinds, stealth and evades.

Initiative is what allows a thief to use skills. These skills provide damage a/o evades, blinds and stealth. No initiative means no access to those skills ergo no evades, blinds and stealth. No evades, blinds and stealth = no survivability.

Initiative is everything to a thief. If anet touches initiative it affects the entire profession, not just a few builds, and everyone would know this if they would have stopped kittening and played the profession.

Well first of all I would like to point out my character IS a thief and is the ONLY character (besides one day as a warrior) I’ve played as in pvp.
That being said, I shall begin by saying we’re getting MORE initiative overtime.
Also, in these “many traits” that increase initiative, only 3 are getting nerfed, which are signet use, quick recovery, and kleptomaniac, none of which are involved in the mainstream builds.
Last, if you are spamming to the point you have zero initiative and cant recover, then you’re doing something wrong. Staying stealthed for the full 3 or 4 seconds will give 3 or 4 initiative back post patch, and throwing down a refuge will grant ALL of it back even if you’re using preparedness.
Infusion of shadow on the other hand, will only effect people who use builds that Anet has labeled as “abusive” (we all know that means d/p) implying they didn’t create it with the intent for it to work like that.

Well IMO the outcome is as should be expected because greatsword warriors are supposed to be used for constantly damaging the opponent and should be capable of taking a few hits. Thieves on the other hand get their ridiculous dagger damage from the BURST skills, definitely not auto attacks. They are also meant to negate damage through evasion rather than resistance so by taking both of these away from the thief the warrior will no doubt win.

I think the conclusion we can draw from this is that a warrior when paired with a dagger thief who does not possess skills of evasion and/or bursting will probably win.

Zacchary.6183:

Sanduskel.1850:

style.6173:

Sanduskel.1850:

They haven’t ruined the game. they’ve balanced it so that all players can enjoy it. Most thieves still enjoy their thief and will continue to enjoy playing it long after the December 10th patch. As anet said, the init change is a massive buff. You should trust them.

I sometimes wonder if you even play a thief since you don’t make sense most of the time. Initiative change is a buff for certain very specific builds. It is not a massive buff for all as you say.

Anet said it was a MASSIVE buff.

And you are foolish to believe them.

Assuming the infusion of shadow changes don’t fall under the subject of the initiative changes, then unless you use one of the few initiative supplements (such as signets of power) then this SHOULD be a pretty good buff. Anet has said they don’t want people relying on these supplements anyways: “The default rate of initiative regeneration was simply to low and was causing players to either take traits to suppliment it…This is something that has to change. What these changes intend to do is to increase the power of every single thief build that is not running these traits”

Burnfall.9573:

You know what thief class!!, all the other classes been asking for; in the past 15 months?, is to just have counter measures against your mechanics"… that’s all!!.

Yet

Arena.net thinks otherwise.

In other word, Don’t Blame us for nerfing your class, Blame Arena.net as the sole responsible party for intentionally allowing your class to break the game and causing hatred, animosity, grudge, retaliation, malice, spitefulness, disgust, greed, lust for total power, lust for total control, greed. and injustice, among ourselves.

As the saying goes, "why blame a blind man for not seeing, when in fact you are the one who took his eyes"

once more…….

We are not to be blamed or is responsible for your Broken class

(if we were to be responsible for your class and its creation; with some minor tweaking, we would make you similar to your kin, The Assassin . .http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Assassin)

there…

no more unjust wars

I would just like to point out that I don’t see how this list implies that we hold you responsible for our nerfs. I simply compiled this list for others to read, and I too think that the majority of these were rightfully installed.

What I personally think about the subject however is that it starts with feedback from the other 7 classes, and then Anet decides what to do about that feedback. The problem is most feedback they receive is unfortunately negative, because if one were to fight a different class, they would probably note what that class’s strongpoints against them are, and not so much what their weakpoints are (what im saying is you dont see warriors or whatever saying “thieves r too squishy, plz buff”)

Therefore, I think there is some truth to the saying that the source of our nerfs is the community, but not entirely because what Anet decides to do with that information is up to them.

evilapprentice.6379:

I think its important to differentiate fixes from nerfs, the same way fixes that make a skill function as intended are not buffs (such as the recent Withdraw/Roll for initiative fixes)

The following from your list above were fixes to improperly functioning skills, not nerfs.

• Bountiful Theft: This trait has been fixed so that it doesn’t apply 15 seconds of vigor twice.
• Shadow Return skill: No longer has infinite range.
• Withdraw: The travel distance underwater has been cut in half to match the land distance.
• Blinding Powder: Stealth duration has been decreased from 5 seconds to 4 seconds when traited with Meld with Shadows. The skill remains with a base of 3 seconds. This skill is now a blast finisher.

The following were changes in functionality, and can’t clearly be considered a buff or a nerf

• Body Shot: This skill now applies 1 second of immobilize. Reduced the number of vulnerability stacks from 10 to 5. Increased the initiative cost from 3 to 4.
• Venomous Aura: Activating a venom skill with this trait equipped will now briefly display an indicator ring around the thief. (This wasn’t really a buff, nerf or fix, just a visual clue for your opponent so they can recognize whats happening)

The following were actually buffs.

• Death Blossom: This skill now costs 4 initiative. (Down from 5, IIRC)
• ALL VENOMS + ASSASSIN’S SIGNET: The number of uses on this skill’s effect will now decrease if an attack lands or if the attack is negated by Blind, Block, Evade, Obstructed, or Invulnerable. (IIRC, and I admit I may be wrong here, I believe venoms and assassin’s sig used to be consumed on any swing of your weapon, even if you were swinging at empty air.)

Fixed the list. I kept body shot on there though because of the vulnerability reduction and initiative increase though.

July 2013:

• Shadow Trap: This skill now has a maximum duration of 120 seconds.

August 2013:

• None other than a few minor bug fixes

September 2013:

• None

October 2013:

• Destroy Shadow Trap: This skill now has a 1.5-second cast time. It plays an effect on the thief and on the trap location when it is being cast. Added 5 seconds of regeneration.
• Hide in Shadows: This skill now only increases Blinding Powder stealth by 1 second so it is consistent with the trait’s functionality.
• Larcenous Strike: This skill now steals only 1 boon.
• Body Shot: This skill now applies 1 second of immobilize. Reduced the number of vulnerability stacks from 10 to 5. Increased the initiative cost from 3 to 4.
• Basilisk Venom: Petrify is now removed on stun break.

November 2013:

• None

December 2013 (According to the preview):

• Shadow Return on Sword. Renamed to Infiltrator’s return. Added a 1/4s cast time.
• Infiltrator’s return will no longer be usable while stunned.
• Critical Strikes 15 – Opportunist. Increased trigger chance to 50%. Increase cooldown from 1s to 5s.
• Critical Strikes VIII – Signet Use. Reduced initiative gain from 2 to 1.
• Shadow Arts V – Infusion of Shadow – This trait functionality has been changed to “Gain initiative when you enter stealth.” 2 init.
• Acrobatics III – Vigorous Recovery. Reduced Vigor duration to 5s from 8s.
• Acrobatics IX – Quick Recovery. Reduced initiative gain from 2 to 1.
• Trickery 5 – Kleptomaniac. Reduce initiative gain from 3 to 2.
• Trickery IV – Flanking Strikes. Move to Master tier. (since it might hinder some builds)
• Trickery VII – Bountiful Theft. Reduced vigor duration to from 15s to 10s.

I hope that this aided you in some way. c:

In response to an earlier thread, I decided to put together a list of all our nerfs since launch, but in a new thread rather than a reply as I feel it could be of use to more than that one thread. This list does not include anything that isn’t strictly related to thieves (The revealed changes for instance) So here you go:

September 2012:

• Heartseeker: Reduced damage of the 100%-50% threshold by 20%. Damage thresholds changed. Old: 100%-66%, 66%-33%, 33%-0%. New: 100%-50%, 50%-25%, 25%-0%.
• Descent of Shadows: This trait’s effect can now only trigger once every 8 seconds.

October 2012:

• Pistol Whip: Reduced damage by 15%.
• Basilisk Venom: Increased stun duration to 1.5 seconds. Stun breakers now work on this skill.
• Assassin’s Signet: This skill has been updated to grant 15% damage for 5 attacks rather than 50% damage for one attack.
• Ink Shot: This skill no longer allows players to shadowstep out of water.
• Whirling Axe: This skill has had evasion removed from the ability and has a missile-reflection effect applied to the whirl effect.

November 2012:

• Dancing Dagger: This skill’s damage has been reduced by 50%.
• Shadowstep: This skill is temporarily disabled underwater to keep players from circumventing walls when using it.
• Cluster Shot: This skill’s damage is reduced by 15% in PvP.
• Cloak and Dagger: This skill’s damage has been reduced by 33% in PvP only.
• Bountiful Theft: This trait no longer applies aegis at odd times.

December 2012:

• Whirling Axe: This skill can now be cancelled by other skills.
• Fear (Stolen item— Skull): This skill now works like the warrior skill “Fear Me.” It will now actually hit its range, but also have a falloff on fear duration based on distance.
• Instinctual Response: Now triggers at 10% damage instead of 20%.(Can be either nerf or buff)
• Piercing Shot: This skill is no longer able to fire at enemies behind the player.

January 2013:

• Leeching Venoms: This trait no longer affects gadgets.
• Smoke Screen: This skill’s blinding pulse no longer follows the thief.
• ALL VENOMS + ASSASSIN’S SIGNET: The number of uses on this skill’s effect will now decrease if an attack lands or if the attack is negated by Blind, Block, Evade, Obstructed, or Invulnerable.

February 2013:

• None except for some bug fixes

March 2013:

• Caltrops: Reduced duration from 15 seconds to 10 seconds. Now indicates its radius.
• Basilisk Venom skill: No longer immobilizes targets in addition to stunning them.

April 2013:

• Mug trait: Can no longer critically hit. Now heals the thief from a range of 1980 health to 2700 health.
• Smoke Screen skill: No longer destroys unblockable missiles.
• Trick Shot skill: First arrow is no longer heat-seeking.

May 2013:

• Black Powder skill: No longer fires its projectile backward while moving. The field can still be generated.

June 2013:

• Cluster Bomb: Decreased the range set from 1200 to 900.
• Larcenous Strike: Increased the initiative cost to 2.
• Nine Tailed Strike: Increased the initiative cost from 3 to 5.
• Shadow Assault: Increased the initiative cost from 5 to 7.
• Shadow Return (Infiltrator Strike Toggle): This skill is no longer a stun breaker.
• Lotus Poison: Increased weakness duration to 4 seconds, but it can only apply once every 20 seconds per target.

Here’s my opinion on the matter:

The only thing that the infusion patch will effect is the d/p weapon set. That being said, as a thief who has both used and fought people with d/p, I think that using d/p as a way to stealth independently of the target and remove some conditions is perfectly fair and should be kept, however, using d/p to chain stealth is not.
For this I am reasonably sure infusion of shadow was not created to allow people to use d/p like this, but allow people to use a single stealth skill without burning up their initiative. Yes other classes DO have blocks and DO have more damage mitigation skills, but they aren’t able to use them in succession like thieves who use d/p. They can only use them one time and then must wait to use them again, and it should be like that for us too. Another thing to note is that other classes seem to incorporate defense more than thieves. I am sure that at least half of the thieves reading this have defense on the low side in order to get the most out of a backstab, and I get that, but it comes at a price.

To summarize:
Thieves that use d/p as a gateway to using backstab and quickly healing/removing conditions will be unaffected by this patch, but thieves that use d/p to heal a great amount of health and remove all of their conditions in only one stealth period are going to get the hammer, which is a great solution for a great problem IMO.