And my point is further proven.
The door is still on the right if you want to use it.
Salty because i’m right?
Yes, oh so salty about giving functional items to the rest of the community.
I think I need to go into the forums and show how much I truly dislike everyone who doesn’t play my game mode and now gets stuff that I have.
The salt
it’s so real
( so real)
Btw did you know cast iron kettles and pots are the same color?
I didnt know black and black were the same!
/s
I’m not hiding the fact that i am salty… but you seem to believe that it’s about
me (or ALL other raiders) not wanting other game modes to have legendary armor.
I’m all for that (even though pvp doesn’t even need it but what ever).
It’s about the means of aquisation. Up until now legendary armors (the raid armor, pvp wings, fractal wings) were only aquireable if you actually win stuff in your game mode.
I know we still don’t know how exactly the upgrading is going to happen so it might be too early to be salty…
Here is the issue….PvE IS the game; PvP and WvW are sidebars to keep groups entertained (to a degree).
Everything in this post screams " But mom they cant have the same toys as me I’m special, take it away from them"
Sorry, but not really
Adding an armor set to other sides of the game doesnt devalue anyone, it means more people can get an armor set with a function to it.
Pve’rs still have nice little achievements that they can wear around LA and pretend that they matter.
Pve’rs will still have the armor that looks terrible unless you mix it with other things
Pve’rs will still be able to discriminate against players and classes and have excuses to feel superior in a game mode that takes very minimal thought process to do and learn.
…
So chill out, put on your big boy pants and do what you tell other people to do, suck it up or don’t play.
I swear instead of being happy for other people in the community the raid/hardocre pve’rs are showing their toxic colors. ( kinda like some pvp’rs, guess the toxic lounge is big enough for the both of you)
This is why some people didn’t want a raid community to begin with.
It’s an armor function, that is open to the rest of the game to earn. If you don’t like it, take your self entitlement out the door before the next xpac, I promise no one will notice.
way to be condescending….
lets not compare toxicity in game modes. wvw players are among the most toxic players in the whole game. they made that very clear since the new competetive package came out.
No raider would complain if legendary armor would come to a game mode that doesn’t have the reward system of a kindergarden. just brain afk in a group for long enough and attack as many dolyaks and doors as you can before you pass out → collect rewards.
As long as the requirements to get it are on par with the one in raids → have fun with your armor! I guess we will have to wait and see
And don’t make the argument that WvW/PvP takes no skill either compared to raiding. I’ve heard arguments from raiders all the time that “Raiding is so easy! All you need to do is get the right build, gear, learn the encounters, and learn your rotation.” So if raiding is really so easy that it’s only because “people are lazy that they don’t get into raids”, you can’t make the argument now that your “skill” in raiding translates into some sort of exclusivity aside from the raid skins.
You still have to do all those things, do about 20 -25 achievements and kill at least 150 bosses. For WvW/PvP you just have to show up… thats it. So even if you consider all these things easy -> WvW/PvP rewards you for much much less
raids take skill- best joke of the century
Thanks for this zero-value comment. All you did was undermine that there is no real argument against what i said.
And don’t make the argument that WvW/PvP takes no skill either compared to raiding. I’ve heard arguments from raiders all the time that “Raiding is so easy! All you need to do is get the right build, gear, learn the encounters, and learn your rotation.” So if raiding is really so easy that it’s only because “people are lazy that they don’t get into raids”, you can’t make the argument now that your “skill” in raiding translates into some sort of exclusivity aside from the raid skins.
You still have to do all those things, do about 20 -25 achievements and kill at least 150 bosses. For WvW/PvP you just have to show up… thats it. So even if you consider all these things easy → WvW/PvP rewards you for much much less
LMAO – Legendary Armorer isn’t a freaking “raid achievement”. It’s an Explorer achievement. That fact would have be obvious to everyone if you hadn’t carefully cropped your image to avoid showing the left side of the achievement panel. Raids just happened to be the first way to acquire legendary armor. You’re not special in any way and doing raids won’t change that.
Special action key for the DPS Golem that lets us reset him to the last entered configuration.
Since its an Training Area this is a very logical option (imo).
Another way to do it would be an option on the area console that lets us save an golem configuration for that instance we are in so we can go back and just “spawn saved configuration”. This way we only need to configure him once at the beginning
Raid wipes are going to be from mechanics, if you are failing dps checks you where probably having mechanics issues.
The dps checks are so small that I cannot fathom how you could possibly not meet them without failing mechanics first.
I agree with you a hundred percent on this.
BUT the problem probably is exactly that. If most people are below average dps (and by that i mean measured on what you would need to smoothly kill the boss)
then everyone has to perfectly execute the mechanics. This can be difficult – but again thats the challange
In almost every case, the first thing “training” guilds do is push players toward meta builds – which is pretty much the opposite of the points we’re trying to make here. It’s about realistically (important word) opening the experience to more playstyles and builds.
This isnt about hard walls or extremes. It is about degrees and the point at which content is unnecessarily restrictive and creates a Stepford Wife syndrome in the game – one in which every player either plays to the mold or gets left behind.
This hung up about changing your gear and build because of raids seems so fake to me.
I’m a warrior main.
When i started doing dungeons back in the day i had to change my gear and playstyle to zerker so i could pull my weight in the encounter and be able to join more pug groups.
When i started doing fractals about 2,5 years ago i had to change my build and utilities to phalanx strength so i could be as usefull as possible in the encounter and be able to join more pug groups.
Its no different with raids. This is truely no argument for an identity change for guild wars 2.
Maybe the time has come to close this thread. We are at the point were its exlusivly a thread complaining about “why i don’t like guild wars 2 raids”.
Am I the only one who is hoping that they don’t add any new elite specifications? We have enough diversity. You can’t tell me that you can handle all classes in all game mods. I don’t want a new meta, where probably all you actual gear gets outdated and you have to spend tons of gold in new gear…
Apart from the point that they will need 3 more years to balance the classes in a playable way…
What I want is a loooooooot of new content. Just give us 20 new Maps, we barely have seen 50% of Tyria, give us story missions like in gw1, 2 for each new map! Add a hardmode. Don’t waste your time in new classes or elite specifications.
AFAIK the new specializations were already leaked.
I understand how you feel. Id really like a lot of new maps as well. Just to get that feeling from release back But having a new way to play my warrior would also be very cool
Im very glad the game gives you that opportunity. But, the idea that the experience is anywhere near that easy for someone coming in fresh with a build that is significantly outside of the meta – that isn’t as supported by the math – simply doesnt hold up when put to the test in game.
I strongly encourage anyone feeling differently to put that to the test in game. Take the character you most enjoy and just see how you are treated by pugs for one week – or, alternatively, pull together a group of like minded individuals and see how the raids feel. I think most of us already know how that will work out for 9/10 players.
That is actually false – well for the most part.
If your objective is to learn raids – your build is not that important. The important part is learning the mechanics. If you and every memeber of the group knows the mechanics very good – the build is just secondary. You will run into the enrage timer probably but if you are really good at the mechanics youll find a way to still do it.
Its true that pugs won’t be patient with you if you don’t run meta. But pugging isnt the best way to learn raids. Better join a training guild or raiding guild
My second post was because for the past few years I have taken breaks, and during the breaks come back to the forums and made suggestions. The responses were always 1. GW2 does it already, 2. GW2 doesn’t need it. 3. GW2 would need to be completely overhaualed to change. Always the same outcome to my topics, but I honestly forget that over time and need to be reminded.
So in one response to my topic I was quickly reminded that the game just isn’t going to change, and I am looking for change. It’s all good everyone. good luck and have fun!
“Oh well, there are numerous ways that they can take part, and that if they feel left out, it’s all in their own head”.
Tell me about the “numerous” ways to take part. List at least 3 different reasonable ways.
- open LFG and look for one of the many training runs
- look for a training raid guild that teaches every mechanic, explains builds and strategies
- join a raiding guild and only raid with this guild. In raiding guilds things like optimal classes and builds are less important since you form a static group and in that group different compositions are possible. If you are pugging you need everyone to be optimial since you don’t know each other
“if they feel left out, its all in their head”, basically translated to your not one of us, get out? Its all in your head, so whatever you say doesn’t matter? Does that sound about right?
Where did you read THAT? If they feel left out its, its all in their head obviously means that they need to change their attitude to do this content. Every game mode needs an special attitude to play it with. PvP, WvW, Fractals and Raids have all different mindsets.
Also, your comment about soloing Cairn? Have you ever heard of “Bestheda Difficulty”. Its essentially cheap artificial difficulty where you fight massive damage sponge, that do large damage to the player. That’s not fair, ingenious, challenging content. Take a look at Dark Souls, Bloodborne and Nioh. Real challenging content, takes much more effort than simply changing number values to favor the boss.
So every hard game YOU beat is now the benchmark for challanging content. Different people think differently about challange.
I want casual challenging content that I can easily leave and enter, at any time, with emphasis on skill and dedication, without being disadvantaged. Its a game, why do I care about hardcore? I am not going to waste my time arranging my schedule with 9 other players, and not get paid. The only things worth going hardcore about, involve a paycheck, and professional ethical co-workers.
Raiding in generell might not be the right thing for you.
An addition to the context menu for items: “check wiki” or “lookup in wiki” and pressing it would open the wiki page for it – just like the /wiki command does now.
I now /wiki already does it but it would be a HUUUUGGGEEE QoL improvement if we didn’t have to type so much stuff. Some items have very long names.
Ever heard of reputation farming? I returned to a lot of WoW zones to farm reputation until I hit exalted and/or there were other mechanics to do.
I don’t think the HoT maps are bad, but I had most done in like 3-4 weeks, and map achievements in a couple of weeks later. The story content was very short (4 hours, compared to GW: Nightfall which took me nearly a week of daily playing to finish), there were no dungeons to run with friends and no reputation to farm for glorious rewards. And let’s face it: 3 and a half maps (DS being one meta zerg event which is fun for 1-2 times – rest is farming for skins/achievements/mastery points) the content was just too little. Especially if you consider the rather high price of 50€.
After that I expected at least some content but the drought until the first LS release was too long. It was okay, but actually, I lost motivation. I really am bored. I made two new legendaries and my interest is dwindling.
That said the raids are of course fine, but unfortunately I lost interest in them. My theory is supported by the fact that less and less people are playing – popularity is low and friends asked me if the game is still live. I will buy the new expansion of course – I play since vanilla GW1, but my hope for the franchise are a bit low. Alas the whole MMO industry is bleeding. There’s a huge shift towards MOBAS and other team based games.
At least I still have my PS4 with great single player games. Why repeating tons of the same content in an MMO when I can play games like Nier: Automata, Horizon, Nioh, Bloodborne, Uncharted 4, Persona 5 etc.
You are complaining that you got 4 weeks of game play (which i am sure is way more if you really started raiding and made two new legendaries) for 50 bucks and to top that you list PS4 games that cost about 70 bucks and give about a week (two weeks top) of game play.
Also MOBA audience and MMO audience aren’t quite the same. One being solely competition based while the other one just offers competition possibilites.
No please not another expansion. Game balance is kittened as it is. Another expansion is just asking for chaos.
Fix what’s here, then do the cash thing.
What is wrong about the game balance?
On the assumption that this is a real question: Game balance has been a hot button issue for years. There are a fair number of people who would generally agree that balance is a serious problem in PvP and WvW and to a lesser extent PvE.
I can only recommend that you have a look at the PvP and WvW forums.
yes it actually was a real question :) i never really understood what this “balance” problem is supposed to be. Some classes are good for some modes and bad for others.
If balance is meant as equality in useability of every classes in every mode or submode of the game – id say thats impossible.
I know, I know. GW2 people tend to be very patient. I assume it’s part conditioning part ‘you have to get along with it’. But imagine the standard MMO player back in the days and you release an expansion with only 3.5 maps and not a single dungeon. The people I talked with wished much more. So to speak, no I don’t speak for the general GW2 community, but at least with those who played with me GW2 and GW1 the past 10 years.
I can’t speak for the complete player base but i excert as much as i can from a game. I have been actively playing almost every day since i bought the expansion (two months after it came out) and still have a lot of stuff to do. Also LS3 is spitting out new maps every few months. Also raiding keeps me pretty busy. Oh yeah and i’m also working on Ascension.
Im glad they try out new stuff. If i wanted the same ol’ same ol’ – there are plenty of other games that deliever that.
That is indeed good, but I wish that just once they’d stick around and then polish up the systems which worked, instead of promptly throwing 10 more things against a wall to see what sticks.
Development by accretion is doable, but feels insanely messy in a long-lived game such as an MMO because the game ends up with hundreds of separate systems and components.
Quick, list me how many different ways to acquire which type of ascended armor exists! It ought to be a quick list, but it’s everywhere. Because no one ever went back and re-streamlined the slowly aggregating bits and pieces.
I agree its hard to keep track of some things. But isn’t it also good to have many different sources for one “thing”?
Im glad they try out new stuff. If i wanted the same ol’ same ol’ – there are plenty of other games that deliever that.
Actually, the “new stuff” in gw2 is mostly new in GW2, while at the same time trying to make this game into somethivg more alike to those “plenty of other games”.
I hope that this time around Anet will not repeat the HoT mistakes, and will concentrate mostly on GW2’s strong sides, instead of trying to please some small minorities at the expense of core players.
Since i am a core player – what are you talking about? please don’t say raids…. please
FF14: ARR came out a year later and releases a 2nd expansion this summer…
Just to make people feel how extremely slow anet is. I lost motivation after a couple of months after HoT and I don’t bother to log in anymore because I am so bored (and some great games coming out the past months).
They need to learn that a steady stream of content is needed to keep players coming online. Why they only think they have to reinvent the wheel with new ‘concepts’ etc. is beyond my comprehension. People just want cool and meaty content like dungeons (non-gimmicky like Aetherpath). They just need to gaze upon their ex-company Blizzard to know how you do things.
Generalize much?
“People” want different things. Different players, different expactaitions.
Im perfectly fine with the speed we are getting new things.
New maps, new and revamped fractals, new raids, new story stuff, new pvp seasons, new legendaries, etc.
Im glad they try out new stuff. If i wanted the same ol’ same ol’ – there are plenty of other games that deliever that.
Well since LS3 started we got 4 new pve maps, 2 new pvp maps (in beta), 2 (+4 with tweaks, total 6) Fractals and 1 Raid Wing. I’m not seeing that “raid focus” direction at all. In fact since LS3 started every type of player got more content than they did at any point in the game’s lifetime. What’s not to like about the new direction?
Well, let’s write the same thing using different words: "Since HoT was released the raiders got 4 complete raids having 13 complete paths and bosses. The “core” (PvE casuals) got 4 small maps (with the LS3 release), the PvP community got 2 new maps. And, the fractal community got 2 “new” fractals, designed as being a stepping stone to raid. So, the fractal community got the maps only in the raid context :-))
Reworking other fractals I don’t consider to be new content.
Please, if you are going to change the watched times lines do it correctly.
If you take the time since HoT release its 8 complete new Maps with own currencies, own weapons, own armory, own ascended stuff, etc.
Just because YOU don’t consider the revamped maps no new content doesn’t mean its not. I did fractals everyday (and not just the dailies) for a year before all those revamps came and before i started raiding. Those changes where significant.
- They added two completly new fractals with 4-5 different diffulties each and challange motes,
- they completly changed two boss mechanics (cliff and swamp) and improved two more encounters (thaumanova and snowblind)
- they revamped the instabilities
- they implemented a completly new reward system for fractals
- they simplified the way to get infusions and attuning equipment
- they added a legendary backpiece
These were all great changes in fractals we got since HoT release. Stop selling them short. By saying stuff like that, you make me think you never actually did fractals before.
And hard fractals with a challenge mode. Dont’ forget fractals are getting harder too.
That’s false, only challenge mote (which is an extra difficulty, outside the fractals scale) and maybe Swampland are harder, the rest of the changes made their respective fractals easier not harder. All of them good changes btw, I’m not complaining.
It’s true. One of the devs said in an interview, or AMA that the new swamp, no challenge mote or anything, was an attempt to get people ready for raids. See this is how it goes.
The rest of the game changes, because raids are now in it. It’s not just raids. A dev said straight up they intentionally made the swamp fractal harder to prepare people for raids.
Yes i read that AMA. He did say it. BUT you are leaving out the context which is VERY important here.
For months and months non-raiders where loudly voicing that raids how they are now are not accessible and there is no learning curve and that easy mode/story mode extravaganza (<— which i admit i was part of at that time)
Changing SOME fractals (nowhere near all or even most) to give players a kind of stepping stone for raids was the way they tried to go. They did that by changing a fractal that needed changing badly (swamp).
Its not like i don’t understand what it is that you want or disturbing you.
I tried showing you its not as bleek as it may feel to you.
Gw2 is my first (and only real) mmorpg. So raiding here is my first experience with raids AT ALL. I played a lot at launch, then on and off for years and since HoT i have been playing almost everyday.
I didn’t start out as raider. It was difficult in the beginning but gets better and easier every week. The difficulties where almost the same ones i had when i started doing dungeons. With the difference that its harder to find 9 other guys instead of 4.
After doing dungeons a lot it almost became second nature. Skipping mobs, positioning, boss mechanics and so on. I am noticing the same stuff happening with raids. You start playing on autopilot on the easier bosses.
To be honest only a little has changed in regards to that.
If you look at the legendary journey (the collections you need to make a precursor).
The journeys for the 2nd generation of precursors/legendaries consist of four collections. Only one of those is “forcing you to play the game you claim to love” (sorry for being so confrontational) the others are literally gold sinks. Apart from the tokens you need from the silverwastes you can buy everything needed from the tp to complete those three other collections.
Now lets look at the coming legendary armor. The thing you need from raids are the two precursor collections and 150 Legendary Insights. There are a lot of LFG-Groups out there that sell you raid spots every week. You can sink all that gold you were mentioning (either grinded or credit card) into joining these groups. Anet already said that selling group spots is not illegal. You don’t have to know anything – join, die immidiatly and they do the rest. They will even help you with completing your collections.
If you are ok with buying legendaries from tp – buying Legendary Insights is no difference.
So you’re saying give money to players, not Anet, and if they rip me off, then what? If I gave 150 or 200 gold to someone and didn’t get the raid, I’d leave the game, period. Sorry that’s not an answer at all.
How is Anet getting more with the old system of buying it from the tp?
Before you either grinded gold (literally no money for Anet) or you used your credit card – both of these still apply.
Then, with that aquired gold, you bought the item from the tp (you gave another player gold in exchange for the item he put on the tp – which also applies here).
Well scamming can be reported – but i admit its a bit risky.
But if you want to bypass the system anet intended – thats one way to go.
Right so why not have a grind to get the legendary armor that’s equal? That would solve my issue. The point is when this game launched you could farm yourself to death and buy a legendary. You could gamble to get a precursor and make a legendary. You could buy a precursor and make a legendary. You could take out your credit card, buy gems, convert them to cash, and buy a legendary. That’s how the game WAS at launch.
It’s now different. I don’t like that difference.
To be honest only a little has changed in regards to that.
If you look at the legendary journey (the collections you need to make a precursor).
The journeys for the 2nd generation of precursors/legendaries consist of four collections. Only one of those is “forcing you to play the game you claim to love” (sorry for being so confrontational) the others are literally gold sinks. Apart from the tokens you need from the silverwastes you can buy everything needed from the tp to complete those three other collections.
Now lets look at the coming legendary armor. The thing you need from raids are the two precursor collections and 150 Legendary Insights. There are a lot of LFG-Groups out there that sell you raid spots every week. You can sink all that gold you were mentioning (either grinded or credit card) into joining these groups. Anet already said that selling group spots is not illegal. You don’t have to know anything – join, die immidiatly and they do the rest. They will even help you with completing your collections.
If you are ok with buying legendaries from tp – buying Legendary Insights is no difference.
Well, no, because some of the things I started playing for aren’t there. The lack of raids is one of the reasons I started playing Guild Wars 2.
You see it always starts this way with raids. There’s only a couple, but we just want challenging content, we don’t want rewards. Then we want the best rewards, because we’re doing the most challenging content.
I can see how this would be harmful in the long run. IF this would become the mindset of the game it would mean that the “best” rewards can only be had by doing raids. But we are nowhere near that point.
Rewards are part of the reason people play MMOs. When the best rewards, which weren’t locked away, are now locked away, when content becomes more and more exclusive, the game changes identity.
Essentially I came to a game that was inclusive, the is becoming more and more exclusive. How can you possibly say that inclusion isn’t part of a game’s identity?
The exclusivity of an item is what makes it so desireable. If i can buy the same armor from every vendor and literally everyone can buy and wear it – it looses its appeal and value. This concept is not exclusive to games.
Even though you could buy legendaries from TP before – the grind to get the gold was the same.
very simple.
Gw2 used to stand for innovative and game play.
As i bought the game, i thought it would stay innovativ, no raid, different quest system. I really thought they would bring new things never seen and maybe change they way mmo are now.
But nowadays what identifies GW2, what make gw2 special?
nothing, it is just a simple mmo like most of the others mmo, with raid, toxic pvp and dungeon.
Huge disappointment for those who bought it in the past for what it stand.
did they live to the expectation of the customers? No.
I won’t say it is a bad game, I say they changed their color.
So there is no reason not to play others MMO.
This is why my wife, my friends and myself stopped playing.
This game is not the game i bought.
Interesting. You and everyone you know stopped playing – but you still care enough to be on the games forums.
Bringing up dungeons is just a joke since they stated that their won’t ever be any new dungeons.
So, they switched dungeon development resources to fractals, that’s why now we have much more new fractals than raid… oh wait, raids got more EVERYTHING than fractals.
I am a software developer. We have different teams for different parts of the application. If one team delievers faster then another team it is (almost) NEVER due to not enough people working on it.
The raid team does work seperatly from the other game modes. One wing or boss has no effect on another. Even without being involved in their development process i can see that fractal development is much more complex (due to the reasons i already mentioned in the previous post).
Raids aren’t receiving more development time than anything.
Then how we got 0 dungeons, 2 fractals and 4 raid wings?
You don’t understand why other rpgs use “modes.” The entire concept of variable difficulty encounters was created for vertical progression mmos in order to keep a raid relevant after it’s original difficulty got power creeped out of relevance. Since GW2 does not use vertical progression there is no need for variable difficulty encounters.
Emm, what? Difficulty modes serves for widening raid audience and keeping mid and high-end raiding community saturated with fresh blood. Otherwise old model with different difficulty of encounters during a single raid would be enough.
Bringing up dungeons is just a joke since they stated that their won’t ever be any new dungeons.
You do realize that one fractal has about 5 different levels. You have to adjust 5 different difficulty settings, instability composition, mobs, bosses, agony calculation, etc.
A raid wing has 3 to 4 encounters. Most of them are just huge monsters who stand in the middle of an arena and wait for you to hit them.
Id say its pretty clear why its easier to spit out new raids then fractals.
I don’t understand how there can be any debate on “If you complete the biggest challange – you get the biggest reward”.
What does the reward have to do with the position of the game mode?
You realize legendary armor is inheretly exclusive! They will never, ever, ever be availabe for the broad playerbase. Just like every other legendary item. We had legendary items for about 5 years now. If you check statistics for players who own at least one legendary item you will see its about 25%.
You are arguing like raids will lock away very demanded items. They are not.
So the people on this thread demanding a change in raids or the system to make it easier for them to get to this item – you belong in this small subset of players who want this new legendary item and who don’t want to raid.
But you can get a legendary backpack from PvP or Fractals.
They added multiple legendary backpacks because it’s easy for them to do so. Legendary armor takes an insane amount of time to finish as we’ve already seen. Who is to say that they won’t add another method of acquiring Legendary armor (different skin) once the first one is out? It happened with ascended rings, it happened with legendary backpacks.
The problem here is how long it takes for them to finish one set of armor. If the reason this discussion even exist is because they don’t have multiple ways of giving out Legendary armor, then that has little to do with identity or direction and it’s all about the developer being so slow in creating armor skins.
See you’re saying what I’ve said all along. Legendary armor takes an insane amount of time (read resources) in addition to the resources of making raids, but only a small percentage of the population will benefit from it.
I’m not a game developer and maybe I have no idea what I’m talking about but this seems counter intuitive to me. In a game where fashion wars is the game, raiders just won.
I’m not sure how that can possibly be good for the game.
Don’t you think its just a small subset of people interested in legendary armor? We have had legendary items for over 4 years now and maybe 25% of the playerbase has one (or more) of these items. So putting this high end reward in the high end end game content will alienate only a subset of the group of people that are interested in legendary items.
Thats not correct. The choice to put a high tier reward into raids is totally logical.
Raiding is currently the hardest kind of content in guild wars 2.
The fitting reward for beating the hardest kind of content in the game should be the best kind of reward.
If i beat any kind of hard mode in another game i expect to get the shinniest of the shinniest. But not in this game? Why?
Because other games have this content as center and endgame for their PvE part, so its pretty logical that they have best rewards.
Are we following that path? Fine, in that case stop telling us about “raids are just side activity” and give us everything that should be in game with a raid-centric gameplay – different difficulties, proper learning curve, ingame raid tactic manuals, proper raid tools and UI and so on.
Did Anet state that the gameplay is now raid-centric?
Besides:
- There already are different difficulties in raids,
- There are many sites to check for good raid tactics and
- there are some good dps meter tools out there that let you analize the encounter afterwards (anet gave the green light on those that have no gear checking)
But you can get a legendary backpack from PvP or Fractals.
They added multiple legendary backpacks because it’s easy for them to do so. Legendary armor takes an insane amount of time to finish as we’ve already seen.
In that case they should have made a legedary raid backpack, not armor set. If they can only create one armor, then it should be put in content that is more widely played. But no, they wanted raids to be special for some reason or another. And that decision is one that implies change in the direction of the game. This decision (and a few others like it) is what makes a difference between “raids are a side content meant for a minority of players, equal to other side contents in the game” and “raids are a special content that’s above all others”.
And that’s definitely a change of the game identity.
Thats not correct. The choice to put a high tier reward into raids is totally logical.
Raiding is currently the hardest kind of content in guild wars 2.
The fitting reward for beating the hardest kind of content in the game should be the best kind of reward.
If i beat any kind of hard mode in another game i expect to get the shinniest of the shinniest. But not in this game? Why?
Looking at the history of high level rewards in this game you can surely expect another kind of legendary armor to be released down the line or another way to earn legendary insights to get to this one. There was a time where you could only craft ascended gear. Now pretty much every game mode has its own way of getting it and it drops in all kind of content.
This stuff is allways exclusive in the beginning – but gets broadend over time. So lets not panic
My opinion is that the outcry about raids will eventually fade away.
Even though this poll isn’t really representative about the whole community it kinda reasurse what i was thinking.
The majority of players oppused to raids have a problem with the jump of difficulty in PvE which hinders them to play this new shiny shiny content and also blocks them away from the shiny shiny reward(s).
As a pretty casual player – If i compare the raid wings my rating is kinda like:
Wing 1 – mix of easy and mid range hard
Wing 2 – mix of easy and super hard
Wing 3 – mix of super easy and mid range hard
Wing 4 – mix of super super easy and super hard
For me that concludes that there will be more and more raid wings and bosses that are doable for more casual groups and easier stepping stones for beginners. What do you think?
How does the question you posed have anything to do with difficulty?
I think you might be reading something into the (probably limited) data you received from this that isnt actually there.
possible
the poll is missing a better feedback option (and the questions weren’t detailled enough as well)
my conclusion is mainly based on the feedback i got after posting the poll.
I’m not really sure of your point here. I mean what you say is obviously true, That said, I’m not sure that what I’m saying is reaching you.
It is my belief, and it’s been supported in what we know from other games, that only a small percentage of the community raid. A small percentage being some sort of minority. Surely you don’t believe most players raid or consider themselves raiders.
Resources are spent on this minority, not just to make raids, but to make rewards. There are definitely some people unhappy with the number of armor sets you can earn in game for example. If Anet takes time to make 3 new sets of armor, just for raiders, then people who don’t raid, who in my opinion are the majority, have the right to say something about it.
That’s what I’m doing. Saying something about it. You say people complain about everything. People didn’t complain nearly as much about dungeons when they were making profit doing them. I mean sure, some people complained but I think most of us can tell the difference between random well thought out complaints and people just complaining to complain.
I believe this is bad for the game because I believe more people will be annoyed by it than excited by it. Still just my opinion.
Which doesn’t mean what I’m saying isn’t correct. We’ll never really know.
I believe over time more and more people will go into raiding. You are right in saying most players will not be raiding.
Just like most players will not be pvp-ing.
And most players will not be wvw-ing.
And most players will not be fractal frequenters.
And most players will not be puzzle jumpers.
Every content that goes beyond farming, open world exploring and world bosses will only be done by a small subset of the complete playerbase. Why not invest in all these game modes?
I think the players that favor pve have the least ground to complain about resources not spent on their game mode. Its been stated over and over by now how many resources actually go into raids vs. the rest of pve. Why do you want to keep this myth of “waisted resources” alive?
Investing in all these game modes is fine. Making unique rewards in one game mode not duplicated in other game modes…not so much. Again in my opinion.
In your opinion investing in a game mode like raids means having THE best rewards in the game. But if raiding is a minority what’s the logic in appeasing a small percentage of players while risking alienating a larger percentage?
But this isn’t exclusive to raids. Its persistent to all the other game mode exclusive rewards that exist in the game.
Currently i have to do a lot of PVP (which i personally really don’t care for) to work my way through to the “PvP only” legendary backpack “ascension”. Thats a unique item that only exists in this (minority centered) game mode.
Let me ask you another question: In a five year old game – how do you get people interested in doing a new game mode. You give them an incentive. Thats logical. And from my perspective it looks like its working.
It’s an opinion based on long observation and it’s completely logical. You don’t have to agree with it, but it doesn’t make that opinion wrong.
I’m not even sure what there is to discuss. If you put only the best rewards behind certain content and people don’t like it, they’ll be unhappy. I can’t even imagine anyone trying to argue against that point.
So either more people like raids than I think (which I doubt is true), or people are doing raids for rewards. The less they like raiding the less happy they’re going to be. I’ve seen it in other games and now I’m seeing it here.
Again you don’t have to agree. But that doesn’t make what I’m saying wrong.
It’s easy to believe because you like raids that everyone doing them likes them as much as you. But I’ve often found people play stuff they don’t like to get rewards, burn out on it and leave games.
Lets look at some events in the past:
Dungeons on launch were super hard – ppl were unhappy
Orr maps on launch were super hard – ppl were unhappy
HoT maps on launch were grindy and super hard – ppl were unhappy
Precursor aquisation was extremly random or super expensive
Dungeons were nerfed – ppl were unhappy
Orr maps were nerfed – ppl were unhappy
HoT maps were nerfed and the gold ventiles were opened – ppl were unhappy
Precursor aquisation is not random anymore (and some are cheaper then before) – ppl were unhappy.
Pleasing everyone is impossible. Sure its good to listen to feedback
that the playerbase gives you. But if someone creates a product the primary focus is on the creators vision and wishes.
I’m not really sure of your point here. I mean what you say is obviously true, That said, I’m not sure that what I’m saying is reaching you.
It is my belief, and it’s been supported in what we know from other games, that only a small percentage of the community raid. A small percentage being some sort of minority. Surely you don’t believe most players raid or consider themselves raiders.
Resources are spent on this minority, not just to make raids, but to make rewards. There are definitely some people unhappy with the number of armor sets you can earn in game for example. If Anet takes time to make 3 new sets of armor, just for raiders, then people who don’t raid, who in my opinion are the majority, have the right to say something about it.
That’s what I’m doing. Saying something about it. You say people complain about everything. People didn’t complain nearly as much about dungeons when they were making profit doing them. I mean sure, some people complained but I think most of us can tell the difference between random well thought out complaints and people just complaining to complain.
I believe this is bad for the game because I believe more people will be annoyed by it than excited by it. Still just my opinion.
Which doesn’t mean what I’m saying isn’t correct. We’ll never really know.
I believe over time more and more people will go into raiding. You are right in saying most players will not be raiding.
Just like most players will not be pvp-ing.
And most players will not be wvw-ing.
And most players will not be fractal frequenters.
And most players will not be puzzle jumpers.
Every content that goes beyond farming, open world exploring and world bosses will only be done by a small subset of the complete playerbase. Why not invest in all these game modes?
I think the players that favor pve have the least ground to complain about resources not spent on their game mode. Its been stated over and over by now how many resources actually go into raids vs. the rest of pve. Why do you want to keep this myth of “waisted resources” alive?
It’s always bad for the game when you’re “encouraging” people to spend long amounts of time in content they don’t like.
What do you base this on?
If you want a certain reward you have to do a certain content. Its been like this launch.
And its like this in every other video game.
It’s an opinion based on long observation and it’s completely logical. You don’t have to agree with it, but it doesn’t make that opinion wrong.
I’m not even sure what there is to discuss. If you put only the best rewards behind certain content and people don’t like it, they’ll be unhappy. I can’t even imagine anyone trying to argue against that point.
So either more people like raids than I think (which I doubt is true), or people are doing raids for rewards. The less they like raiding the less happy they’re going to be. I’ve seen it in other games and now I’m seeing it here.
Again you don’t have to agree. But that doesn’t make what I’m saying wrong.
It’s easy to believe because you like raids that everyone doing them likes them as much as you. But I’ve often found people play stuff they don’t like to get rewards, burn out on it and leave games.
Lets look at some events in the past:
Dungeons on launch were super hard – ppl were unhappy
Orr maps on launch were super hard – ppl were unhappy
HoT maps on launch were grindy and super hard – ppl were unhappy
Precursor aquisation was extremly random or super expensive
Dungeons were nerfed – ppl were unhappy
Orr maps were nerfed – ppl were unhappy
HoT maps were nerfed and the gold ventiles were opened – ppl were unhappy
Precursor aquisation is not random anymore (and some are cheaper then before) – ppl were unhappy.
Pleasing everyone is impossible. Sure its good to listen to feedback
that the playerbase gives you. But if someone creates a product the primary focus is on the creators vision and wishes.
My opinion is that the outcry about raids will eventually fade away.
Even though this poll isn’t really representative about the whole community it kinda reasurse what i was thinking.
The majority of players oppused to raids have a problem with the jump of difficulty in PvE which hinders them to play this new shiny shiny content and also blocks them away from the shiny shiny reward(s).
As a pretty casual player – If i compare the raid wings my rating is kinda like:
Wing 1 – mix of easy and mid range hard
Wing 2 – mix of easy and super hard
Wing 3 – mix of super easy and mid range hard
Wing 4 – mix of super super easy and super hard
For me that concludes that there will be more and more raid wings and bosses that are doable for more casual groups and easier stepping stones for beginners. What do you think?
It’s always bad for the game when you’re “encouraging” people to spend long amounts of time in content they don’t like.
What do you base this on?
If you want a certain reward you have to do a certain content. Its been like this launch.
And its like this in every other video game.
I find this thread very odd … I can’t understand how it appears like the OP associated the evolution of the game with it losing it’s identity, implying that having a game that evolves is a bad thing? Perhaps I haven’t played enough MMO’s but … I’ve yet to play an MMO where the devs don’t tries to change a bit to keep the game interesting to it’s veteran players.
Sure, Anet has made some errors during this evolution but I don’t think this is very relevant; any expectation that Anet just scores homeruns is unreasonable. I wouldn’t want to waste a single minute in a game where a developer would just pump out the same old, just to maintain game identity. Frankly, I think the whole idea that a game’s identity is the sum of it’s content and lore is wrong; it’s identity is how the dev team implements the game and interacts with players.
I think that a lot of angst, (although it’s not mentioned much in these forums), is that this game is called: Guild Wars 2
Where are the guild wars? The WvW in gw2 is Server Wars, it’s certainly not Guild Wars. There really isn’t any incentive to have guilds battle although you see guild groups roaming around looking for fights here and there.
This is what makes me “chuckle”. I play a game called “Guild Wars” (2), and it’s a name that doesn’t represent what you do in this game in any way that I can see.
My understanding of the original guild wars was that you had actual guild alliances (I don’t know how they worked since I didn’t play it), and I assume guild battles? GW2 moved away from those things, although they did bring back the guild halls finally.
This game has LOTS of variety between mapping, story, bosses, raids, pvp, wvw… Enough to keep people busy for ages. But to me I don’t see what it has to do with guild wars.
The complaints/comments in this thread are all over the map.
That might be true but that’s not what the title implies. The subject of this thread is “Did GW2 lose its identity”. If it’s identity wasn’t for guilds to be at war based on the name of the game alone then tell us what the identity of guild wars was supposed to be. Telling me what is ‘not’ doesn’t help me or anyone understand what ‘is’.
Not having a common ground on what the identity of gw2 is/was is the reason why this thread is now eleven pages long. Different people interpret the games identity differently – which would be fine. The conflict begins where some people demand reverting something (that others again don’t want to be reverted) to restore an lost identity (which again only a subset of the people agree on)
But having a new way to play my warrior would also be very cool
muahaha