Guild Wars 2

I tend to focus the phantasms down while the mesmer is stealthed. Otherwise your better off focusing on the mesmer

TomoHawkx.8139:

Ozx.5683:

your main burst combo will be done by starting off in earth attunement with rock barrier/hurl. then switching to air attunement using lightning strike and arcane blast. Make sure you have your auto attack turned off in Earth because you’ll want to be using Arc lightning, not Stone Shards.

I would recommend saving arcane blast for fire attunment. Once you go into fire, cast dragons tooth and when the tooth is in the in the air, start casting fire grab, while thats channelling use arcane blast to proc fresh air and switch to air attunment. If you can pull this off your dragons tooth and fire grab have 10% increased dmg (due to your air trait). You’ll have to cc/imob them for this so updraft them or earthquake + lightning flash onto them for even more damage (target enemies with lack of stability eg. necros, rangers or engi). This combo is really powerful and can hit for 16-22k damage, most of it aoe so it can be a game changer in small fights

Seems like a good build overall, but as soon as you are focussed in a group you wont last very long, I also use an s/d group roaming build that has pretty decent survivability (2.6k armor and 18k health) while being able to pull of a very high damage burst.

That sounds pretty good, just need to have someone immobilize for you at the end of updraft knockdown to ensure dragontooth + firegrab connects.

First off just to be clear this build is primarily for small group play. It works best in a group of 3-5 players. You can win some 1v1s but don’t buy the items in this build and then expect to kill everything you see roaming around by your self.( solo play is viable but can be frustrating in certain situations).

With that being said here is the build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fFAQJArYhMMKZ25wuBfEBCAGpmQ0AQCQ8KIDUDrA-TFCFwAoVJIl6OAeAAXVCic/R5hgTAgTlYZ0DEAABgfbzhezl7bSBExyI-w

your main burst combo will be done by starting off in earth attunement with rock barrier/hurl. then switching to air attunement using lightning strike and arcane blast. Make sure you have your auto attack turned off in Earth because you’ll want to be using Arc lightning, not Stone Shards.

This burst is incredibly potent because you have 40% total increased damage! 10% from rune of scholar, 10% from vital striking, 10% from air training, and 10% from target having burning ( pretty much guaranteed with how many attacks are critting them within this burst).

This combo typically bursts for around 6k-7k damage. Now add in the proc from sigil of air and fire and your bursting for around 9k-10k damage from 900 range!

The reason this build is so potent in small groups is because you should be able to position your self where you are not the primary target. and if by chance you are the primary target you have ride the lightning, lightning flash, and fiery great-sword to disengage and reengage to the fight.

If by chance you get put into a 1v1 situation you need to make use of your blinds to the best of your ability. You have 3 at your disposal on fairly short cooldowns. Another good combo that you can use if your opponent does not have stability is updraft + phoenix. This alone can do around 10-12k damage if both air and fire sigils proc and you get a crit on all 3 phoenix hits. If that happens they are most likely going to have burning on them as well which lines them up for a Fire Grab.

Also during group play whenever an enemy is downed you want to use Dragon tooth + phoenix on top of them rather then going up to stomp them. This prevents any of their allies from staying close trying to resurrect them ( or they will die with the downed guy) and you want to avoid stomping people because it generally puts you in a vulnerable position. There have been several times where I’ve seen 3 enemies run up to revive a downed ally and all 3 of them get downed by dragon tooth + phoenix combo. It can hit for around 15k-17k damage if they take 3 phoenix hits + the dragon tooth

Overall this build is very high DPS, high mobility, and low toughness. Positioning and using blinds properly is the key to staying alive while throwing out huge amounts of damage.

edit: i forgot to mention that as of right now i’m not using ascended armor or weapons and this build could potentially be stronger than what i have been experiencing.

Creamble.1652:

I know it’s an awesome skill but, really, the scepter fire auto attack is horrible! it takes forever to cast and does what? 1 sec burnig? Ok, dont buff Phoenix, but we seriously need a reduce in the scepter fire autoattack cast!

Adept Trait V in fire, 33% chance to cause burning for 1 second on critical hit. Assuming you have 30% crit chance + fury from swapping to fire you can easily throw a well placed phoenix ( hits 3 times) and channel fire grab as the phoenix is reaching the target and hit for the bonus damage.

edit: also if you are running arcane blast or wave you can throw that at them right before firegrab goes off for another chance at burning.

silvermember.8941:

Solkard.5136:

I feel that the class has conflicting design issues.

Each element is set up to serve a different function for the class; fire for offense, earth for defense, water for healing, air for mobility. But rather than attuning to each element uniquely as a situation dictates, the skills themselves seem balanced around manically switching between each element and just jamming every button as quickly as possible, before switching to the next.

The end result is that while the class does have a lot of utility built into their various skills, they are for the most part wasted to just eek out a bit more dps.

One of the things that got me interest initially about the elementalist was that each attunement was for something. Fire for Aoe, water for more support, air for single dps and earth for defense. Now however it seems the class is mostly about spamming a lot of buttons.
if you look at all those guides they most talk about spamming a button of skills to maximize damage aka “combo” especially in the scepter dagger, the goal seems to be just getting things off as soon as possible and not necessarily playing smart. I mean if you are going to play like that you might as well just get yourself a macro and let it do the for you because that isn’t really playing.

scepter/dagger is about dealing burst combos to your opponent at the right time. the “skill” is more about positioning and timing. being able to burst someone down to 20% doesnt mean anything if they can heal right after back to 70% then kill you.

Autumn Man.6852:

I like fancy aoe, granted. But I’d also like it to do noticeable damage and not just some useless dot that does nearly nothing.

Arenanet needs to buff elementalists because they’re in a really bad spot and good for nothing.

Since your talking about gear i’ll assume your referring to WvW. First off are you using superior sigil of bloodlust and getting 25 stacks. also do you use food that increases either power/crit dmg/ crit chance. if not then you are not even close to being in optimal gear.

I play scepter/dagger with power/vit/tough armor. runes of the scholar zerk/valk rings cavalier accessories and a zerk backpiece

stats with bloodlust/food:
3,402 attack
49% crit chance
98% crit damage
2,360 armor ( not exactly glass but definitely not a bunker)
16,836 health

I do stupid amounts of damage. the only classes i can’t instantly kill are 3000 armor bunkers. But condition damage builds can be hard to deal with( but not impossible), mesmers especially. The good thing is though is that mesmers can’t actually chase anyone and they are incredibly easy to get away from.

we suck. sure a good ele can kill a bad player of any other class but as soon as you run into someone who knows what they are doing it’s almost comical how bad eles are

RashanDale.3609:

dont label things as a ‘bug’ when theyre just not how you want them.

Malice/Bursting has 4/5/6% cond.duration and thats fine. Sigils for a single condition give 10% so giving a sigil for ALL conditions 7% or more might be OP compared to the other sigils.

how could it not be a bug? two completly new sigils released that do… the same exact thing? either the tooltip is wrong on one of them or they messed up somewhere

oZii.2864:

Ozx.5683:

oZii.2864:

Ozx.5683:

Daendur.2357:

Ozx.5683:

Daendur.2357:

seriously 4 players and you go down ? lol

your missing the point again. It will be 2 thieves not even attempting to kill the enemy players. not running away. just dodge rolling and C&D until we get downed then reviving each other.

this is nonsense.
what’s the point in trolling bad players ?

Your making the assumption that they are going to be bad players. Im making a point that it doesnt matter how good the enemy is. The ability to survive with this tactic is 100% up to the thiefs ability. This is a bad design for any type of competitive game and its why i made this thread to begin with.

He is saying that your only gonna be able to troll bad players using that method you described that is why he said that. Good players arent gonna blow interrupts vs 2 thieves just cause its time for that in their comfortable rotation.

If the players stick around while you dodge roll and CnD on them all the way until your health pool is depleted they are probably bad players. I would get bored and just move on and my guess is they probably will too.

So your okay with there being a class in the game that can never die if they choose to do so? lol what a joke

Thief is suppose is designed that way to engage and disengage as they sit fit. That is due to mobility more so than stealth. Thieves aren’t invincible and the fact that your implying they are shows your reaching here in this thread as been pointed out. Go make your video ok cause right now you make no sense.

Lets say you are being serious as 2 thieves trying to kill 4 people you might have to chose to use your refuge to secure a stomp or save it defensively. If you attempted to use your refuge to secure a stomp then how are you gonna save your buddy if he goes down? Pros cons, risk vs reward.

This is how your video will go 4 people you and a buddy go in cnd on them dodge rolling they do damage to you and 1 of you goes down assuming you get a successful rez then you will try to stall for close to 60 secs until your buddies SR is off cooldown dodge rolling etc you might be forced totally distance enough to leave combat and go back in an repeat. Accomplishing absolutely nothing. Also not making your point that its over powered either.

Actually it would be 48 seconds until its back up and you wouldnt have to stall that long because you have two of them available for use. Using it while low on life right before you get killed will allow you to actually revive yourself most of the time

oZii.2864:

Ozx.5683:

Daendur.2357:

Ozx.5683:

Daendur.2357:

seriously 4 players and you go down ? lol

your missing the point again. It will be 2 thieves not even attempting to kill the enemy players. not running away. just dodge rolling and C&D until we get downed then reviving each other.

this is nonsense.
what’s the point in trolling bad players ?

Your making the assumption that they are going to be bad players. Im making a point that it doesnt matter how good the enemy is. The ability to survive with this tactic is 100% up to the thiefs ability. This is a bad design for any type of competitive game and its why i made this thread to begin with.

He is saying that your only gonna be able to troll bad players using that method you described that is why he said that. Good players arent gonna blow interrupts vs 2 thieves just cause its time for that in their comfortable rotation.

If the players stick around while you dodge roll and CnD on them all the way until your health pool is depleted they are probably bad players. I would get bored and just move on and my guess is they probably will too.

So your okay with there being a class in the game that can never die if they choose to do so? lol what a joke

Daendur.2357:

Ozx.5683:

Daendur.2357:

seriously 4 players and you go down ? lol

your missing the point again. It will be 2 thieves not even attempting to kill the enemy players. not running away. just dodge rolling and C&D until we get downed then reviving each other.

this is nonsense.
what’s the point in trolling bad players ?

Your making the assumption that they are going to be bad players. Im making a point that it doesnt matter how good the enemy is. The ability to survive with this tactic is 100% up to the thiefs ability. This is a bad design for any type of competitive game and its why i made this thread to begin with.

With a reaction time of about .25 of a second and the delay of around 125ms on average and the travel distance of projectiles/skills that knockback at around .25 if your at full endurance you will be safe the entire 3 seconds with 2 dodge rolls

Daendur.2357:

seriously 4 players and you go down ? lol

your missing the point again. It will be 2 thieves not even attempting to kill the enemy players. not running away. just dodge rolling and C&D until we get downed then reviving each other.

Im done trying to make a point. For whatever reason you guys are ignoring logic and bringing up pointless information that does nothing to argue my stance. I’ll come back here eventually with a video of me and another thief played to the benny hill theme of just endlessly reviving each other next to 4 or more enemy players. Maybe then you’ll be able to understand

Daendur.2357:

Ozx.5683:

My point still stands that it heals for enough to keep you and your ally from dying in the 3 seconds

Ally will get only the 430 from refuge not the rejuvenation

430*5=2150 hp on a pool of over 35k (i have 15k while alive and 35k+ while downed) is not that much.

have you not been reading the point i have been trying to make this ENTIRE thread? the issue is specifically with reviving OTHER thieves with the ability

Laika.8795:

Ozx.5683:

As for the screenshot this is in heart of the mists with 0 healing gear. you can easily get around +200 with ascended gear. the regen is at 749hp a second 420329

What ascended gear is going to give me an increased 700 healing power, and also not be worthless otherwise? Because that’s what it would take to add +200 health to both those skills respectively (.1x(HP) for Shadow’s Rejuvenation, .18x(HP) for Shadow Refuge)…

Count ME in!

it would go to around 820 hp a second with +200 healing which is actually closer to the 1k estimate i had then your ~600 estimate. So i admit i was a little bit off with my calculations but My point still stands that it heals for enough to keep you and your ally from dying in the 3 seconds

as for there gear:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Triforge_Pendant_
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lunaria,_Circle_of_the_Moon
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ancient_Karka_Shell

and +60 from rune of divinity

oZii.2864:

Ozx.5683:

DancinPuppeh.8421:

It’s 9.5 seconds of stealth. And it’s the only stealth we have that’s viable for complete stealth. The rest are 3 seconds or 4 seconds with traits. Also Shadow Refuge is on a LONG cooldown, no thief will use it for revives and if they do their not a good thief. Shadow Refuge is generally used as a reset. When things don’t go their way they can Stealth out and get out. And before you say it’s OP that we can get out of any situation any time, that’s the whole point of Thief.

People who say remove Shadow Refuge, and remove stealth make me angry. Cause that’s equal to saying Remove pets from Ranger, remove Clones from Mesmer, remove Turrets from Engineers… It’s the exact same.

I feel the thief has too LITTLE stealth as apposed to too much. I’d like more long stealth so I could truly sneak up on people and attack them when they don’t expect it. With these stealth I can’t really do that as I need to use my stealth while I’m in their sight, so they see it coming before I attack.

Maybe you should try reading my entire post next time, I specifically said I didn’t want it removed or changed drastically. Not only that you completely ignored my point about it only being extremely powerful when combined with another thief that has it. Also i never mentioned anything about other stealth abilities I’m not sure why your being so incredibly defensive.

Well if your looking at it from the aspect of 2 thieves and thats your argument then you must include the same of the 2 other classes in that situation. 2 bunker Guardians are a pain to kill. 2 mesmers 6 clones, shatters, confusion and interrupts another pain is this 2v2 we are talking if so you gotta include 2 of the same opposing classes to have a good argument.

Two bunker guardians are going to have a hard time killing people effectively. And the fact that they have pretty much 0 escape/chasing power. Regardless of this we could discuss balance on other classes for ages. the point i’m trying to make is that you could have two thieves vs 5 or even 6 players and you wouldn’t ever be able to take them out if they played perfectly.

Daendur.2357:

Ozx.5683:

Also shadow refuge does around 500 hp a second by it’s self. adding in the 300-400 hp a second from shadow’s rejuvination (400 with ascended + all stats jewelry) is easily around 1k hp a second

random numbers. have you ever played a thief?

btw if you cast a sr and stay on the edge to avoid melee and dodge to avoid cast, you are not ressing/stomping.
sr can be tactical or an escape skill … use it to say “hello world, i’m here” and then be ready to react is not that smart.

sigh do i have to take a screenshot of my regen for you? And onto the issue of reviving the heal from the stealth and healing while in stealth is enough to bring the person back up alone if they arent hit in the 3 seconds. And its enough to keep them at a high enough hp to be revived once they teleport out of range of aoe.

As for the screenshot this is in heart of the mists with 0 healing gear. you can easily get around +200 with ascended gear. the regen is at 749hp a second 420329

Raine.1394:

Ozx.5683:

Raine.1394:

Ozx.5683:

oZii.2864:

You can’t teleport out of the shadow refuge before the field barrier disappears otherwise you get revealed just like any other thief same applies when your down. I know I see guardians daily revive while tanking like 3 people its almost like they are totally confident that they wont die thats without them popping their own bubble.

That’s true but a guardian would need to burn two utility skills to grant stability in order to actually revive the player. with one of them being on a 120 second cool down. Shadow Refuge is often on a 48 second cd and with two thieves can be done over and over again

When this level of minute parsing of skills and abilities begins to occur, you know you have embarked upon another “nerf them, don’t nerf me” thread. You should actually begin reading very carefully when a thread starts with a specific disclaimer that the OP does not believe X profession is OP, but…

I finally finished leveling my thief to 80 yesterday. I have all the other professions at 80 except necro and engi, which I’ve abandoned until some redesign work occurs. Thief is not an easy profession to run around in. I can be pulled into a Risen pack on my guardian and it’s like “Are you sure you really want me in the middle of all of you?”. On the thief it would be an Oh kitten moment. Yes, the thief has excellent strengths to go along with the weaknesses. Thief, though, is one profession where you have to tread very lightly around the nerfbat. It would be very easy for the weaknesses to quickly overshadow the strengths. Stealth is one of those areas.

minute parsing? im very specifically stating that the issue is exacerbated by the number of thieves involved in the fight. aka the skill grows in power exponentially by the number of people using it

Please dont post unless you have something to actually contribute to the discussion.

When I studied communication I learned that the ideal role to play in communication is to be a participant-observer. Sometimes pointing out the nature of a communication is the most significant contribution that can be made. It is certainly the most significant contribution that can be made here.

And yet here you are, contributing nothing to this conversation.

Raine.1394:

Ozx.5683:

oZii.2864:

You can’t teleport out of the shadow refuge before the field barrier disappears otherwise you get revealed just like any other thief same applies when your down. I know I see guardians daily revive while tanking like 3 people its almost like they are totally confident that they wont die thats without them popping their own bubble.

That’s true but a guardian would need to burn two utility skills to grant stability in order to actually revive the player. with one of them being on a 120 second cool down. Shadow Refuge is often on a 48 second cd and with two thieves can be done over and over again

When this level of minute parsing of skills and abilities begins to occur, you know you have embarked upon another “nerf them, don’t nerf me” thread. You should actually begin reading very carefully when a thread starts with a specific disclaimer that the OP does not believe X profession is OP, but…

I finally finished leveling my thief to 80 yesterday. I have all the other professions at 80 except necro and engi, which I’ve abandoned until some redesign work occurs. Thief is not an easy profession to run around in. I can be pulled into a Risen pack on my guardian and it’s like “Are you sure you really want me in the middle of all of you?”. On the thief it would be an Oh kitten moment. Yes, the thief has excellent strengths to go along with the weaknesses. Thief, though, is one profession where you have to tread very lightly around the nerfbat. It would be very easy for the weaknesses to quickly overshadow the strengths. Stealth is one of those areas.

minute parsing? im very specifically stating that the issue is exacerbated by the number of thieves involved in the fight. aka the skill grows in power exponentially by the number of people using it

Please dont post unless you have something to actually contribute to the discussion.

Laika.8795:

Ozx.5683:

how is it a much greater risk? if you have the trait that heals while in stealth with shadow refuge your going to be getting around 1k hp healed a second and your only able to be hit by aoe damage for 3 seconds

It’s actually only ~600 health per second.

And it is a much greater risk, because it’s broadcasting your position. AOE + melee cleave can destroy a thief quite quickly, as people don’t seem to understand.

Sure, you can dodge in the circle, but there’s a good chance you could pop yourself out and go into revealed. It’s also a big red flag screaming “FEAR HERE” or “PULL HERE” and it’s a pretty common occurrence. You get sent out of your refuge, you’re as good as dead.

It’s really not that hard to stand on the edge of it and avoid most cleave effects and dodge roll to the other side to avoid spells. Your making it sound a lot harder to pull these off than it is. the Skill also becomes much stronger when combined with shadowstep.

Also shadow refuge does around 500 hp a second by it’s self. adding in the 300-400 hp a second from shadow’s rejuvination (400 with ascended + all stats jewelry) is easily around 1k hp a second

Stiv.1820:

You don’t use AoE really you use cleave DPS where the downed person was. Yes, in the one situation where a Thief is rezing another Thief and they both get the full SR before the downed player teleports, your example probably ends up with the person getting up. As someone who runs Thief/Thief duo a lot that hardly ever happens. Most of the time the teleport has to be blown first. In fact it’ a huge part of the communication in that duo, yelling out when you are teleporting or telling them to stay put because you are about to blanket them with refuge. Dealing with Thief/Thief and downed state isn’t a fraction as annoying as dealing with Guard/Guard so…

Shadow step allows this to happen over and over again. I hate using anecdotal evidence but i was in a 1v2 of two thieves where i downed both of them around 4 times each over a 10 minute fight and they would revive each other every time with this tactic. I out leveled them and out geared them considerably as well.

DancinPuppeh.8421:

It’s 9.5 seconds of stealth. And it’s the only stealth we have that’s viable for complete stealth. The rest are 3 seconds or 4 seconds with traits. Also Shadow Refuge is on a LONG cooldown, no thief will use it for revives and if they do their not a good thief. Shadow Refuge is generally used as a reset. When things don’t go their way they can Stealth out and get out. And before you say it’s OP that we can get out of any situation any time, that’s the whole point of Thief.

People who say remove Shadow Refuge, and remove stealth make me angry. Cause that’s equal to saying Remove pets from Ranger, remove Clones from Mesmer, remove Turrets from Engineers… It’s the exact same.

I feel the thief has too LITTLE stealth as apposed to too much. I’d like more long stealth so I could truly sneak up on people and attack them when they don’t expect it. With these stealth I can’t really do that as I need to use my stealth while I’m in their sight, so they see it coming before I attack.

Maybe you should try reading my entire post next time, I specifically said I didn’t want it removed or changed drastically. Not only that you completely ignored my point about it only being extremely powerful when combined with another thief that has it. Also i never mentioned anything about other stealth abilities I’m not sure why your being so incredibly defensive.

LionZero.3479:

It’s a 60 sec cd for most as not everyone runs the deception trait, also refuge is a lot greater in risk then a gaurd popping stability any cc that pushes it out or enough dps is gonna make sure that res won’t get off and likely get the thief trying to res killed aswell.

how is it a much greater risk? if you have the trait that heals while in stealth with shadow refuge your going to be getting around 1k hp healed a second and your only able to be hit by aoe damage for 3 seconds

Bull Zooker.1672:

its actually more like 12 seconds stealth isnt it?

That might be true, im not 100% certain

oZii.2864:

You can’t teleport out of the shadow refuge before the field barrier disappears otherwise you get revealed just like any other thief same applies when your down. I know I see guardians daily revive while tanking like 3 people its almost like they are totally confident that they wont die thats without them popping their own bubble.

That’s true but a guardian would need to burn two utility skills to grant stability in order to actually revive the player. with one of them being on a 120 second cool down. Shadow Refuge is often on a 48 second cd and with two thieves can be done over and over again

First off i’d like to say that I don’t consider the thief class to be overpowered, I just want to make that clear. The only problem i have with the class is the fact that shadow refuge grants stealth for a total of 9 seconds. This can be used to revive a downed ally in stealth. Now you might say that you can spam aoe on top of it if hes sitting there reviving his ally which i agree with, but what happens when you throw it down on top of another downed thief? the downed thief can use his teleport and be revived fairly easily in the 9 seconds of stealth with out any danger of being hit by aoe.

I’m not exactly sure how to change this with out completely destroying the ability. Maybe it could be changed so that you revive people at 50% speed while you are in shadow refuge. Another option would be to cut the duration of the skill down to 6 seconds of stealth. I’m not really sure what the best course of action would be but as it stands now this ability is completely broken in WvW.

The fact that it was a warrior that killed you instantly makes me believe he stomped with quickness. You do know that quickness effects the stomp speed correct?

Yeah guys theres no way a group of small players could ever do anything against a zerg! /endsarcasm

Get a guild, get good, have fun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fD2teQTIs64

and then we could get infinite swiftness by switching back and forth into air. sounds good to me