Guild Wars 2

HazyDaisy.4107:

On the subject of current player toxicity / elitism post wvw rewards I just have a few questions:

1) Wvw “vet” players:
PRIOR to rewards, how many times were you casually strolling through a bl when the commander or another player publically called out the entire map as worthless because they lost a fight or an objective?

2) For the sake of assumption…PVER’s:
How many times were you casually strolling through a map doing completion when someone said “Meta or GTFO” or publically called out the entire map when the event failed?

3) Wvw Vets: Is the level of toxicity that you witnessed in wvw prior to rewards higher now post rewards?

Personally, I saw a few instances of wvw player and commander “passion” over the years, in fact some commanders were well known for their passion.

Since rewards, I haven’t really seen this, then again I’m from a deshelved guest server and don’t know alot of the host commanders and players and even when I do get to know them, relinks happen. You could say in that respect for a vet, its similiar to a wvw noob being thrown into wvw for the first time, but that’s a different story for a different day.

I always see pvers complaining about meta fails though, publically calling out 1 side of octovine because they went too fast/too slow, so and so was in an armor and didn’t kill the frogs, people at the wp AFK’ING.

Over the years though, not once in wvw or GENERAL pve have I ever seen anyone lord their rank over another player though.

With raids, there was a form of elitism in that most parties needed to inspect your build, check your LI amount ect to ensure you were a “good player”. So, I have to ask, since wvw players don’t stop and check everyone’s rank on the map, how is raids considered easier to get into and less toxic than wvw?

Furthermore, on the subject of ticket timegating/acquisition, one can make the argument that it’s easier in another mode, IF one had previously jumped the hoops required by the players of that mode and worked with a group to clear the content in order t continue to collect it’s rewards.

I can’t solo all fractals, I can’t solo a raid, but I can solo a tier 3 camp and tower, and 2 years ago I could solo a keep. How many current rank 50’s that arent someones alt can say the same?

Arrogance comes with experience and experience should come with better / faster rewards. But at what level in wvw is one considered exerienced?

So much to learn in wvw…. Enemy zerg composition, supply/cost dynamics, map tells, gvg, recruiting, guild managment, party composition, tactics, ghall tactivators, roaming, scouting,commanding, server meetings, siege placement, counter siege placement, defense tactics, open fieldbtactics, ts…..i could go on and on. They all happen on every server. What If I said your experienced when you could do all those things well?

Amaimon.7823:

Chaba.5410:

Amaimon.7823:

if you’re not rank 3000 by now, there’s no way in seven realms of oblivion and the gazing abyss behind it that you can complete the wooden chest in one week.

No need for the hyperbole. I finished Silver on an account with rank 780 in 6-8 hours of WvW by getting either 3 pips per tick (2 for rank, 1 for third place) or 8 with outnumbered buff.

Except when youre on a skritt server that is just active enough to never have the outnumbered bonus, but inactive enough to always fail, so im cursed with 1 pip per tick, meaning i have to sacrifice my entire working week for getting the wooden chest, and thats just ridiculously disproportionate

Yeah…i would say there are ppl that cant meet minimun for commitment…..Then whats the commitment pip for if not commitment?

You need a wvw buddy. I reccomend you join a wvw guild they will help you out.

A model is also testable…if ppl take their pips earned over a period of time and divide it by the numbers of ticks you get pips/tick right. Compare it to the model. Do ppl that started at 0 rank have ticket numbers that fit what the model predicts? Its a model not jesus.

Chaba.5410:

It’s a good chart showing how WXP rank gain plays into the system.

Just for fun, here’s a screenshot from last night of about an hour of 2nd place gameplay on a silver account with no loyalty pip bonus and the outnumbered buff in EBG (working as intended – hell yes I’ll keep playing when outnumbered).

Almost enough pips for the entire wood track alone.

Average pips / tick = 7.42
Edited because calculator.

Turk.5460:

PabbyGaul.9682:

Turk.5460:

Heibi.4251:

But if players just do the minimum effort I can see 1.5 making sense.

You’ve obviously never heard of roaming. Its OK to leave the blob once in a while to press a button other than “1”.

I used a metric that represented an average, something achievable even for a roamer. There was entirely too much hand waving. The graph shows that..and i have others for super casual….really 10 hrs a week at 1 rank an hour over 1 yr you get like 4 k tickets and that assumes bare minimum pip aquisition 2 pips to start and the graph accounts for pip increases due to increasing rank.

So all the 2yrs bs is just that…..

Congratulations on your hard work which does not include any variables whatsoever. Not sure why you quoted me here, though, since my reply was in regard to someone thinking roaming is “bare minimum.”

But sure, lets talk about your chart.
I’m assuming you’re attempting to counter the argument that it would take casual players an unreasonable amount of time to see rewards?

OK please revise your chart to include:
-Casual newcomer WvW players aren’t spending their entirety of 2.14 hours from start to finish in WvW – AKA, just because they like the game mode, doesn’t mean it isntantly becomes the only thing they do in GW2.
-Not all ticks of a skirmish are going to be with Tier3 participation, and since your chart assumes 2nd place, it may take longer than 15 minutes to ramp up to t3, depending on availability of enemy points to capture.
-Time waiting in a queue if player is on a high pop server and can only play during prime time.

And there’s probably quite a few more variables that I’m leaving out. So please add the above, and possibly more, then we can take your chart seriously. But as of right now, the attempt is laughable. And even in a perfect world where there are zero variables it would still take over a month for someone to get a single piece of ascended gear. Imagine how long it would take with an actually accurate chart…

Not so BS now, is it?

All you see is the chart and what you are asking for isnt really possible to model all scenarios simultaneously because physics. So..the chart takes into account average parpipsipation using algorithms for rank up and subsequent formulae for ticket aquisition. The chart isnt laughable…your attempts to understand it on the otherhand are. Not everyone roams and flips burgers. Some ppl got math skilz.

Turk.5460:

Heibi.4251:

But if players just do the minimum effort I can see 1.5 making sense.

You’ve obviously never heard of roaming. Its OK to leave the blob once in a while to press a button other than “1”.

I used a metric that represented an average, something achievable even for a roamer. There was entirely too much hand waving. The graph shows that..and i have others for super casual….really 10 hrs a week at 1 rank an hour over 1 yr you get like 4 k tickets and that assumes bare minimum pip aquisition 2 pips to start and the graph accounts for pip increases due to increasing rank.

So all the 2yrs bs is just that…..

Henry.5713:

I like the idea of a reward curve. All though, one could argue whether it should be this steep and unrewarding for new players.
In any case, a change to help new players is fine as long as this doesn’t turn into another handout. Any reward in this game is just a matter of time if you like the content you play. But people want stuff handed to them without a need to even play and they refuse to understand why unique rewards exist. This is just “easy mode raids” all over again.

I think the initial pip-wall is a good deterent for ppl that dont like the game mode. But it starys going up pretty quick over the weeks.

Attached chart:)

Ashen.2907:

Amaimon.7823:

my problem with the current system is that it punished new players.
We are being actively pushed out, because if you’re not rank 3000 by now, there’s no way in seven realms of oblivion and the gazing abyss behind it that you can complete the wooden chest in one week.
I think it would be more than fair that if at friday you havent completed the wooden chest, your pips don’t reset. Either that, or evenly distribute the rewards over the subchests. At least then there’s a prospect of progress.
To give a short anagram:

John has worked for Records for 5 years, he’s a veteran, and makes 4 euros per hour.
Jack has worked for Records for a few months now, he’s adapted to the world, but as a novice, he’s paid 2 euros per hour, sometimes only 1 euro per hour if his colleagues are slacking, meaning he’s punished for their negligence.
The boss of Records doesn’t want to pay out the wages if the wage is less than a 100 euros. either you get a checque for the full wage, or he wont pay you anything at all, even if you did the same amount of work.

So, John works for 20 hours, and has therefore earned the 100 euro check of his wage. The boss signs the checque, and he can collect his wage. Jack also works 20 hours, but he only made 30 to 50 euros on his clock, so the boss says “I don’t care how hard you work, if I have to pay you less than 100 euros, ’m not paying you at all”, so Jack goes home tired and sore, knowing he didn’t make a dime during the 20 hours, goes to sleep hungry, frustrated, and tired, while John down the corridor is throwing a party.

The next week, John goes back to work, and works another 25 hours to make sure he hits 50 euros. He walks up to his boss and asks for the pay now, but the boss says “nooo, you can’t make the wage in two sessions, you have to make the wage in one go. On friday I reset the clocks, so you gotta make the 100 euros in one week, but if you have trouble getting that in 20 hours, why not work for 50 hours, maybe 60, you don’t need sleep, you don’t need a social life, just lock yourself into the office and work until you’ve made a 100 euros”

I am well below rank 3000. I am well below rank 300. I have managed to complete the wooden chest each week playing casually. I have a full time job that, with commute, takes up as much as 16 hours of my day some days and as little as 10 hours others. I am also married and spend time with my wife. I really dont understand how you can imagine that it is impossible to complete the wooden chest in a week if I can do so.

Like much of europe he works at it less than 5hrs a week.

Jk:)

At lowest pip…2. Per tick one must wvw 5 hrs a week. I would agree that wood tier might want to tier out the tickets…3 per tier….?

Sylvyn.4750:

PabbyGaul.9682:

Here some stats

Nice chart! Aren’t there only 12 skirmishes per hour, though…1 every 5 mins?

In that case lol here

Here some stats

Turk.5460:

PabbyGaul.9682:

Wvwers wanted rewards for rank.
Rank takes a long time to get.
New ppl want these same rewards without the need for rank.

Wrong. Please re-read the majority of this thread.

Please understand that: tickets = pips = rank = shinies. The whole thread is about pips, especially base pips.

Ppl want less spread..why?

Double base pips, then double for every category. Sounds good Ill get a pip chest every 8 min then. I can max out my track after 5hrs of play for the week.

What about ppl in mithril rank..diamond rank? Theyll get a chest every 4 min? Be done for the week in a couple hours.

Just bump base pip by one….yea. 2 yrs was a grind but 1 year isnt?

People keep doing these calculations without factoring in their wvw rank increasing as if they wont ever get above 150 or 600. After 3 wks youv’e increased a pip already via wvw rank.

Tickets…yeah its been 3 wks…buying an ascended wvw piece. Yeah it takes longer than when I make one..depending but also is “free” rather than waiting for an ascended drop and I get to pick stats. Might be craptastic in pve but its absoluetly awesome in wvw that I can get an ascended armor or weapon after a few weeks. of just playing. Im extatic that I dont have to drop hundreds of gold to make ascended. Working for me.

Yeah. I’ve read the thread. Mostly whining about how unobtainable the rewards are and how wvw is deadgamemode cuz no rewards. Lotsa math with no models for rank gain and pip aquisition and time to tickets showing rewards along the way. Its alot of focus on goal and complaining about the journey.

Could the journey be shorter? Sure. For many it will be. For others its a long road and it should be because if it was as short and easy as other game modes ppl would be farming wvw. Ask anyone what wvw is like when the rewards are thw focus. Its kitten. The game mode does not lend itself to farming. When rewards > winning wvw becomes crap and = eotm.

I would bet that if wvw really needed a bump wvwers could go out into pve and zerg maps and recruit. It would likely be more effective than rewards. I know because before mega server we did just that. We had “Help a PvE’er” night. We’d find some poor unsuspecting pveer in queens dale and zerg down whatever he needed down…alot of drinking was involved.

Wvwers and Pveers have different motivations. Some Pveers are closet wvwers and need an reason to be exposed to wvw. Rewards were one way of doing that and we have recruited many pveers who have learned that they like wvw. Most mmo players arent like that. They enjoy squishing 5 frogs and predictability and use that predictability to grind end game mobs for meaning. So regardless of what anet tries wvw will only ever appeal to about 2%. I am also curiousnto know if someone could describe the difference between grinding wvw and playing wvw.

I dont think there is a middle ground.

Basically what this thread wants is a paradox.

Wvwers wanted rewards for rank.
Rank takes a long time to get.
New ppl want these same rewards without the need for rank.

Anets has already done about all they can do to try and middle ground. The legendary is easier to obtain than ascended(pve candy). Ascended requires medium rank (wvwer candy) legendary no rank. Pips and reward track vary by rank so even low ranks get reward chests. Imagine if only your pip chests were hard gated(rank req).

So. The most egalitarian thing would be to remove pip system and rank gate the armor and legendary. Remove skirkish tickets amd use badges instead.

Yeah, some ppl will be wearing all the armor tomorrow but atleast no more pip farming and pip complaining.

The result would then be these same ppl complaining about the badge cost and rank req then of course the answer is “go get em” as they arent rank gated unlike tickets.

As far as rank req for cool stuff I dont see a solution. See paradox above.

There is a difference between between coming in to wvw looking for rewards and finding out you like it and stay. Entirely different to come in, hate it, then complain on forums to get yoir stuff and get out faster, making an eotm candy pip farming mess in the process.

Turk.5460:

I don’t see why any veteran WvW player would oppose changes to base pips, giving new players a little more incentive to continue with the game mode and hopefully help revitalize it. Our veteran bonuses wouldn’t change, we’d still get rewards faster than the newbies.

If these “veteran” players really don’t care about the rewards like they claim not to, then I don’t see why they’re even posting in this thread to begin with. It seems like they do actually care about rewards, but by golly I don’t think they’ll admit that. Would they?

A question to all WvW players opposing changes to base pips to make it easier on the newcomers: Do you care about WvW rewards more than the WvW game mode?

I am opposed because i dont want wvw to become eotm. If its not something people plan on playing longterm for how does that help wvw? Ppl come in get candy and leave. E.g. Tournaments.

Omg. Same arguements. This whole rabbit hole needs to go. Ppl dont understand the game mode why understand the rewards? Max pip calculations, time to candy, spawn farming, its all a ridiculous attempt to grind something that isnt meant to be ground. Anets got the statistics. They explained the rational and your arguements show yuou havent understood the purpose. Please go watch the Guild Chat.

The fact that ppl have rank that requires years to get and they asked for some meaning to it is irreconcilable with your desires to have it now.

So. Even if you get it now what should high ranks have to rank for?

Id say remove the pip nonsense and rank gate everything with obscene badge requirements.

Why does wvw have to pvp/ pve. Its a different game mode that targets different types of players the reward system SHOULD be different. We have played on same maps for 2-5 yrs. Assaulted same structures. Have we really been “grinding” wvw this whole time? I dont pve because pve does feel like grinding. I have skipped every cutscene and every mob feels the same. Thats why I wvw, because the enemy is ever evolving and changing, size tactics, and composition. To me, wvw has never been a grind nor have I ever gone into wvw like “god why must I do this over and over again its soooo boring”. In pve you need carrots because the grind is really boring. The reward system targets people who play the same maps for 2-5 years and rarely leave. What pve map you still playing 5 years later that is still “fun” to you? Its a longterm game mode and needsnlong term rewards.

No. The system doesnt punish it only rewards ppl. It just does so to varying degrees. Ppl afk for outnumbered buff. If it was a smaller reward less would do it amd encourage active play. Eotm is a wvw lobby. I should earn pips in pvp lobby or LA maybe I get LIs?

I would like to see alot more rank gated stuff for the pip track else ill have everything within a year. Pip track will basically be ui clutter for most after a year. What about the other 5k ranks above 2k. I think its unfair we even have a pip track it should just be rank gated.

Firebaall.5127:

I say INCREASE the rank requirement.

Or, make another tier of it that’s legendary grade WvW armour. I’d like to see a set of legendary Diamond Rank WvW gear.

Agreed. I can already get all this stuff. I would love some more higher rank long term rewards…maybe every 1k rank?

If the primary reason to play wvw becomes candy then winning becomes secondary. This is well known by vets. Its called Eotm.

If you want to tie rewards to winning then guess what, already done. If you want your candy sooner then Help your server be successful and get those extra pips.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

PabbyGaul.9682:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

PabbyGaul.9682:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Ulion.5476:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

snip

When you bought the game did you believe you would get the legendary armor or a legendary at the start?

No but i thought 3 months to 1 year was reasonable, apparently its not.

#notyourpvecandy

wow great soundbite u really convinced me, truth is i have more candy then you’ll ever get

#lrnhow2gw2

L2p4fun

how about you don’t tell me how to play the game. Gw2 – play your own way. In my opinion anyone who dosent play for rewards its really doing it wrong? I mean isnt that the basis for wvw wanting exclusivity on these items so badly? I mean if its all playing for fun then why do you care about the prestige of the items? Sounds like your fooling yourself and your really playing for the same reasons I am.

Except you are trying to make a game mode play your way when ppl enjoy the game mode the way it is. There are game modes for candy grinders. Its pve. If you make rewards in wvw fall from the sky it becomes eotm. Long term rewards in wvw are a great strategy by anet. Its a mode that doesnt target candy grinders.

I think wvw targets team competative and social players. I dont think you are in either of those. Its okay. If yer not a team player and yoir an achievment junkie wvw really isnt about that. If you arent about getting along with others and think mostly of yourself wvw also not for you.

In wvw rewards are not unimportant they are just secondary. Primary to rewards is making enemy commander rage, beating opposing server , team, guild, roamer. Wvwers didnt stop playing because if crappy rewards they just would liked to have rewards that allowed them to build stuff they needed to be better at wvw, ascended armor ect.

My reccomendation is if you are going to wvw I would blend in first rather than try and turn it into pve/eotm, thats the last thing wvwers want.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

PabbyGaul.9682:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Ulion.5476:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

snip

When you bought the game did you believe you would get the legendary armor or a legendary at the start?

No but i thought 3 months to 1 year was reasonable, apparently its not.

#notyourpvecandy

wow great soundbite u really convinced me, truth is i have more candy then you’ll ever get

#lrnhow2gw2

L2p4fun

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Ulion.5476:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

snip

When you bought the game did you believe you would get the legendary armor or a legendary at the start?

No but i thought 3 months to 1 year was reasonable, apparently its not.

#notyourpvecandy

I would agree 5 pips for outnumbered is a bit much..2 or 3?

Deihnyx.6318:

VaaCrow.3076:

Deihnyx.6318:

VaaCrow.3076:

I don’t care about my rank either, just like i don’t give a rats kitten about any reward,the majority of the posts in these threads are hilarious, get over yourselves and either commit or don’t. not everyone has to pander to try and create the reality you want. I really hope anet stick to their guns on this, companies shouldn’t pander to the vocal minority. Just because you think 40 hours is excessive, doesn’t make it so, that is YOUR opinion. And as for seeing lots of afkers, you’re right, i do see some, and when i do i fire a report, just like pve people do for afk farmers there

Have fun reporting afkers who aren’t actually afking. Because they actually need to do something every 5 minutes or so

And yes that is my opinion that I defend, as it seems really obvious to me, it was also defended by some vets, but that is the whole point of the debate. However I just don’t accept “boo skin hunters are bad” as an argument.

Also, unlike many I did not propose any alternative that wasn’t a win for everyone, including vets (and especially vets actually).

I have an alternative, play the game, and get the skins over time. As intended.

I got to diamond on Monday. Wrong assumption here.
It’s not because I can get it myself that I automatically don’t want other players with less time to be screwed, guess that’s the difference between us.

I never get my diamomd chest. Im okay with that. Do you feel Im screwed too?

*shoots thread in the head……

Its not a numbers problem or a time problem. Its a brain problem. Im rather impressed with the pip system the more I think aboit it.

How do you get more ppl in wvw that are likely to stay but never had a reason to go into wvw?

You offer rewards that cant be ground out like they are in the pve maps. No candy grinder in their right mind would even attempt it. However, some ppl are bored of candy, they want blood instead. Maybe they didnt know they wanted it but they suddenly find themselves saying “omg this isnt a grind…this is heaven”. Recruitment is up, alot of people that came are staying because they never knew how much fun it is to roll around wth guildies and kill ppl. The candy grinders can go. They werent going to comtribute much anyway. Anyway gg Anet. Wvw is better for it.

Enjoys game mode != Elitist

JemL.3501:

You could argue the ammount but not the point, the acquisition is just too low for the time invested

The Pip Wall. As long as its up, candy hunters not going to stay. Other ppl..whom dont find wvw a grind will stayy.

GvG mode would revitalize wvw. Not candy. Pip Wall is good. Keeps out the ppl that wouldnt stay anyway.

You quoted me while saying it so I think you think Im trash and I dont think I am trash. I feel like you would be violating my safe space by implying that I am trash. But since you arent implying that I forgive you.

Turk.5460:

PabbyGaul.9682:

It encourages the trash.

Judging from the responses of “certain” people, the trash is already in WvW…

Are you implying Im trash because I could have an aneurism? I think thats discrimination.

Turk.5460:

PabbyGaul.9682:

Turk.5460:

PabbyGaul.9682:

Turk.5460:

PabbyGaul.9682:

Deihnyx.6318:

PabbyGaul.9682:

The difference in rewards and time it takes dor newbies vs vets to gain them is INTENDED. Its not a mistake. It was designed that way knowing how long it will take. Working as intended.

Working as intended doesn’t always mean working best, as it was shown many, many times with anet reworking older systems, reworking pvp pips, reworking pve traits, etc. This is hardly an argument in favor or against the current system, it’s just stating what the current system is right now.
For example, in game pretty much everyone agrees that the outnumbered pip is too much. If we never discuss anything, then let’s just admit everything is perfect and be done with it.

I dunno, if I was a vet I would spend less time trying to fight my right to “play less” my main mode and instead ask bonus that benefits me directly rather

Lol. Your arguement is that it takes to long to max out pips per week. If yer low rank you werent meant to. So your arguement is like complaining “I cant solo Raid. Anet pls nerf” You arent intended to solo raid, just like low ranks arent intended to max pip track every week. It doesnt mean you cant try…

Your comparison to difficulty of raiding is irrelevant and asinine.

Its not that lower ranks are not intended to max out every week, that would be a ridiculous design. A more accurate depiction would be: “It is not intended for lower ranks to easily max out every week.” Which I agree with, low ranks should not have it easy. However, in its current state, it is not only difficult, but almost impossible for some people. If you read my reply a few posts up, there is potential for a low-rank to have to spend 8.5 hours to only just complete wood tier. And its not like it would take another 8.5 to complete bronze- no, it would take 10 more hours. And an additional 14 hours for silver, etc. That’s an awful lot of time for such little return.

The bonuses vets get is pretty fair, that’s the general consensus now. The current design is working as indented, yes. But that’s what people are upset about, and that’s how things get changed. The base pip system is silly, unreasonable, and probably wasn’t tested properly. If people don’t voice their concerns, it won’t ever become reasonable.

Think of it this way – Settlers Amulet/Turret Engineers in PvP were working as intended. It was incredibly OP, but it was absolutely working as the developers intended it to. The customers voiced their opinions, ANET looked into it, and nerfed that crap into the ground. If nobody said anything, PvP would still be full of bunker turret engineers dominating points 1v3.

The idea was not to have new ranks stay low ranks. If they want more pips they need to rank up. New ranks shouldnt be pip farming and their attempts to do so are being thwarted. Most have already left. The people that stayed behind are either waiting for pip nerf or actually enjoy game mode. Im gold rank, still havent finished pip track once and I play ~ 10~20hrs a week. Maxing out the track was not intended…Its possible but not easy. I think its actually a great system. It rewards ppl who are vets and rewards non vets and each to yheir own degree. The skirnish tickets are a marathon not a sprint. The longer someone does wvw stuff the more ranks they get the more pips they earn and thus the more valuable their time becomes.

Ppl make 2 kittenumprions. 1. low ranks will never increase to the next pip tier rank. It will take you a few months but you will reach 1 extra pips…then silver for 2…ext. the system is intended to discourage grinding because grinding isnt fun and reward dedication or wvw rank. Its an extra reward track that gives wvw rank some usefulness beyond 1300.

Assumption 2. Your suppose to max out your skirmish tickets every week. No. Just no. Any calculations about how absurd the time required for low ranks is a useless arguement. Anet built it on average play. Bronze using average playtime = Bronze chest. Low rank = wood chest. A low rank is intended to finish wood chest over a week..if they do more…great. The maxxing thhing comes from a desire to have. Practice budhism….

You are hopeless and have a despicable mindset regarding things other people can or can’t have. Please tell me how it would affect you if newer players were able to complete diamond chest in less than 60 hours? Because from your responses it seems as though it would absolutely trigger your increasingly apparent inferiority complex.

I might have an aneurism….

I asked you a question, perhaps you didn’t read it, I don’t know what I expected.

Here it is again: “Please tell me how it would affect you if newer players were able to complete diamond chest in less than 60 hours?”

I answered it twice. I could have an aneurism…. or trash starts clogging ques. Yes. Trash. I consider 0 rank pip farmers trash. Maybe they got legendaries and are clutch pvp and raiders bit if they dont comtribute to wvw then they are useless in wvw right…Ppl dont stockpile used tissue paper? When sometbing becomes useless you throw it out. We collectively call this group of things “trash”.

Its kinda like that afluent neighbor hood in N. CA..building a wall to keep the bums out.

If 0 ranks can farm wvw for rewards thats bad. It might end up like LP farming in AA. Its cute seeing their little name plates tucked away in corners near enough to camps and sentries to gain participation but is that what wvw will become? The problem isnt the pips. Its the ppl that want the pips. How does allowing 0 rank pip farmer aquireing diamond in less than 60hrs…or 30 hrs if they gain 1 extra pip. It encourages the trash. Its a sustem that rewards for very little work ppl will naturally take advanatage of it. Lower it and the behavior you see ppl complain ing about wont go down it will increase.

Turk.5460:

PabbyGaul.9682:

Turk.5460:

PabbyGaul.9682:

Deihnyx.6318:

PabbyGaul.9682:

The difference in rewards and time it takes dor newbies vs vets to gain them is INTENDED. Its not a mistake. It was designed that way knowing how long it will take. Working as intended.

Working as intended doesn’t always mean working best, as it was shown many, many times with anet reworking older systems, reworking pvp pips, reworking pve traits, etc. This is hardly an argument in favor or against the current system, it’s just stating what the current system is right now.
For example, in game pretty much everyone agrees that the outnumbered pip is too much. If we never discuss anything, then let’s just admit everything is perfect and be done with it.

I dunno, if I was a vet I would spend less time trying to fight my right to “play less” my main mode and instead ask bonus that benefits me directly rather

Lol. Your arguement is that it takes to long to max out pips per week. If yer low rank you werent meant to. So your arguement is like complaining “I cant solo Raid. Anet pls nerf” You arent intended to solo raid, just like low ranks arent intended to max pip track every week. It doesnt mean you cant try…

Your comparison to difficulty of raiding is irrelevant and asinine.

Its not that lower ranks are not intended to max out every week, that would be a ridiculous design. A more accurate depiction would be: “It is not intended for lower ranks to easily max out every week.” Which I agree with, low ranks should not have it easy. However, in its current state, it is not only difficult, but almost impossible for some people. If you read my reply a few posts up, there is potential for a low-rank to have to spend 8.5 hours to only just complete wood tier. And its not like it would take another 8.5 to complete bronze- no, it would take 10 more hours. And an additional 14 hours for silver, etc. That’s an awful lot of time for such little return.

The bonuses vets get is pretty fair, that’s the general consensus now. The current design is working as indented, yes. But that’s what people are upset about, and that’s how things get changed. The base pip system is silly, unreasonable, and probably wasn’t tested properly. If people don’t voice their concerns, it won’t ever become reasonable.

Think of it this way – Settlers Amulet/Turret Engineers in PvP were working as intended. It was incredibly OP, but it was absolutely working as the developers intended it to. The customers voiced their opinions, ANET looked into it, and nerfed that crap into the ground. If nobody said anything, PvP would still be full of bunker turret engineers dominating points 1v3.

The idea was not to have new ranks stay low ranks. If they want more pips they need to rank up. New ranks shouldnt be pip farming and their attempts to do so are being thwarted. Most have already left. The people that stayed behind are either waiting for pip nerf or actually enjoy game mode. Im gold rank, still havent finished pip track once and I play ~ 10~20hrs a week. Maxing out the track was not intended…Its possible but not easy. I think its actually a great system. It rewards ppl who are vets and rewards non vets and each to yheir own degree. The skirnish tickets are a marathon not a sprint. The longer someone does wvw stuff the more ranks they get the more pips they earn and thus the more valuable their time becomes.

Ppl make 2 kittenumprions. 1. low ranks will never increase to the next pip tier rank. It will take you a few months but you will reach 1 extra pips…then silver for 2…ext. the system is intended to discourage grinding because grinding isnt fun and reward dedication or wvw rank. Its an extra reward track that gives wvw rank some usefulness beyond 1300.

Assumption 2. Your suppose to max out your skirmish tickets every week. No. Just no. Any calculations about how absurd the time required for low ranks is a useless arguement. Anet built it on average play. Bronze using average playtime = Bronze chest. Low rank = wood chest. A low rank is intended to finish wood chest over a week..if they do more…great. The maxxing thhing comes from a desire to have. Practice budhism….

You are hopeless and have a despicable mindset regarding things other people can or can’t have. Please tell me how it would affect you if newer players were able to complete diamond chest in less than 60 hours? Because from your responses it seems as though it would absolutely trigger your increasingly apparent inferiority complex.

I might have an aneurism….

Turk.5460:

PabbyGaul.9682:

Ender.5273:

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Dis·crim·i·na·tion – the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.

Nothing about rewarding those who have demonstrated dedication and commitment to the game mode is unjust or prejudicial to new players, if anything it’s incentive for new players to keep at it.

I feel the attack on the value of my high rank rewards are being unjustly perpetrated by people prejuduced against wvw. Do I get to classify all these attempts to devalue my rewards as discrimination against me because I have a high wvw rank?

Even the OP edited his post to say that the bonuses aren’t really the problem, nobody is attacking our high rank rewards, holy crap please leave, you are not contributing anything, nor are you actually reading and understanding the posts you are replying to.

*sigh.

Value = Rarity
Rarity = Tickets/Total Tickets
Total Tickets = Pip Rate * Population
Tickets = My Pip Rate * Just me

If Pip rate increases value decreases.

Turk.5460:

PabbyGaul.9682:

Deihnyx.6318:

PabbyGaul.9682:

The difference in rewards and time it takes dor newbies vs vets to gain them is INTENDED. Its not a mistake. It was designed that way knowing how long it will take. Working as intended.

Working as intended doesn’t always mean working best, as it was shown many, many times with anet reworking older systems, reworking pvp pips, reworking pve traits, etc. This is hardly an argument in favor or against the current system, it’s just stating what the current system is right now.
For example, in game pretty much everyone agrees that the outnumbered pip is too much. If we never discuss anything, then let’s just admit everything is perfect and be done with it.

I dunno, if I was a vet I would spend less time trying to fight my right to “play less” my main mode and instead ask bonus that benefits me directly rather

Lol. Your arguement is that it takes to long to max out pips per week. If yer low rank you werent meant to. So your arguement is like complaining “I cant solo Raid. Anet pls nerf” You arent intended to solo raid, just like low ranks arent intended to max pip track every week. It doesnt mean you cant try…

Your comparison to difficulty of raiding is irrelevant and asinine.

Its not that lower ranks are not intended to max out every week, that would be a ridiculous design. A more accurate depiction would be: “It is not intended for lower ranks to easily max out every week.” Which I agree with, low ranks should not have it easy. However, in its current state, it is not only difficult, but almost impossible for some people. If you read my reply a few posts up, there is potential for a low-rank to have to spend 8.5 hours to only just complete wood tier. And its not like it would take another 8.5 to complete bronze- no, it would take 10 more hours. And an additional 14 hours for silver, etc. That’s an awful lot of time for such little return.

The bonuses vets get is pretty fair, that’s the general consensus now. The current design is working as indented, yes. But that’s what people are upset about, and that’s how things get changed. The base pip system is silly, unreasonable, and probably wasn’t tested properly. If people don’t voice their concerns, it won’t ever become reasonable.

Think of it this way – Settlers Amulet/Turret Engineers in PvP were working as intended. It was incredibly OP, but it was absolutely working as the developers intended it to. The customers voiced their opinions, ANET looked into it, and nerfed that crap into the ground. If nobody said anything, PvP would still be full of bunker turret engineers dominating points 1v3.

The idea was not to have new ranks stay low ranks. If they want more pips they need to rank up. New ranks shouldnt be pip farming and their attempts to do so are being thwarted. Most have already left. The people that stayed behind are either waiting for pip nerf or actually enjoy game mode. Im gold rank, still havent finished pip track once and I play ~ 10~20hrs a week. Maxing out the track was not intended…Its possible but not easy. I think its actually a great system. It rewards ppl who are vets and rewards non vets and each to yheir own degree. The skirnish tickets are a marathon not a sprint. The longer someone does wvw stuff the more ranks they get the more pips they earn and thus the more valuable their time becomes.

Ppl make 2 kittenumprions. 1. low ranks will never increase to the next pip tier rank. It will take you a few months but you will reach 1 extra pips…then silver for 2…ext. the system is intended to discourage grinding because grinding isnt fun and reward dedication or wvw rank. Its an extra reward track that gives wvw rank some usefulness beyond 1300.

Assumption 2. Your suppose to max out your skirmish tickets every week. No. Just no. Any calculations about how absurd the time required for low ranks is a useless arguement. Anet built it on average play. Bronze using average playtime = Bronze chest. Low rank = wood chest. A low rank is intended to finish wood chest over a week..if they do more…great. The maxxing thhing comes from a desire to have. Practice budhism….

Ender.5273:

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Dis·crim·i·na·tion – the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people or things, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.

Nothing about rewarding those who have demonstrated dedication and commitment to the game mode is unjust or prejudicial to new players, if anything it’s incentive for new players to keep at it.

I feel the attack on the value of my high rank rewards are being unjustly perpetrated by people prejuduced against wvw. Do I get to classify all these attempts to devalue my rewards as discrimination against me because I have a high wvw rank?

Deihnyx.6318:

PabbyGaul.9682:

The difference in rewards and time it takes dor newbies vs vets to gain them is INTENDED. Its not a mistake. It was designed that way knowing how long it will take. Working as intended.

Working as intended doesn’t always mean working best, as it was shown many, many times with anet reworking older systems, reworking pvp pips, reworking pve traits, etc. This is hardly an argument in favor or against the current system, it’s just stating what the current system is right now.
For example, in game pretty much everyone agrees that the outnumbered pip is too much. If we never discuss anything, then let’s just admit everything is perfect and be done with it.

I dunno, if I was a vet I would spend less time trying to fight my right to “play less” my main mode and instead ask bonus that benefits me directly rather

Lol. Your arguement is that it takes to long to max out pips per week. If yer low rank you werent meant to. So your arguement is like complaining “I cant solo Raid. Anet pls nerf” You arent intended to solo raid, just like low ranks arent intended to max pip track every week. It doesnt mean you cant try…

Gw2 specifically moved away from targeting skills to make the game less tab-target kill. It requires dodging, group healing thats effective requires coordination. Combat in Gw2 is so highly rated because failure is always an option.

1 – Desert Bl is bigger and ppl cried…alot. Ppl wont spread out..they will stay in a blob and will simply slow the pace down. If you want to work in smaller more effective groups….join a wvw guild.

2- If you want to understand how nearly any class can be built for “support” I reccomend joining a wvw guild.

3- Gw2 was specifically designed to get away from tab targeted aoe skills..however if you play with your options you can find snap to target aoe targeting. The Aoe cap basically makes stacking effective damage reduction. So aoe all you want, 10 Aoes wont make a dent in 30 ppl. To learn more about of aoe intensive some classes are and how aoes are used in wvw I reccomend joining a wvw guild.

The difference in rewards and time it takes dor newbies vs vets to gain them is INTENDED. Its not a mistake. It was designed that way knowing how long it will take. Working as intended. Id a newbie wants the same rewards as vet they have to work alot harder. My reccomendation is to enjoy your celery stick.

Not all servers are blob servers. T1 t2 cant really help it. If you want smaller blobs go t3 and t4. Some servers are very guild oriented others are pugmander oriented. Iys a cultural thing mostly

Problem PiP farmers are going to run into overtime is if their rank doesnt increase (because afk..sentry..afk) It really will take them forever. Even getting one more pip for their rank reduces the time to rewards. Initial boost is largest. From 1 pip to 2 pips…..THATS A 100% INCREASE. Lol. But say if yer last place going, commitment bonus, its a 25% increase. So grinders can spend 25% less time in wvw. If you dont wvw it will be a serious grind and you may end up getting the tickets but wont have the rank. My suggestion is to play the game mode rather than farm pips. Who knows…maybe it wont be a grind for you afterall. Maybe you will meet some cool new friends and have alot of fun in the shared goal of defecating all over your opponents.

If you think wvw is mindless you should prolly get in on those gvgs or command. Both are very engaging activities and have steep learning curves voice coms also helps you understand what may appear to be mindless activity or poor decisions. Sometimes it may be just that. Depends on your guild and your tag.

If you listen to the devs on Guild Chat they explain the pip system. Low ranking ppl arent expected to finish the track every week.

Dawdler.8521:

How would you decide who even wins a GvG in open world combat? The honor system? Hahahaha…

I think OP is suggesting anet implement gvg arena and interface for gvg that would handle wins/loses.

As far as open field you win when the oyher guild is all dead. Most gvg groups record and upload videos…all the time. Mostly to review performance. So ya…there generally isnt a disagreement about who wom or lost.

Sviel.7493:

You mention an anti-zerg mechanic, but your only suggestion is to add GvG. It’s not even clear if this GvG you want to add has anything to do with WvW.

I’m not sure what to do with this post.

Also, while you provided no details, I don’t think an anti-zerg anything is going to fly. You can reward players for splitting up, but you can’t punish them for sticking together.

OP just makes 2 separate points. He thinks blobs suck and gvg would be great if supported. I dont think gvg was an answer to his first concern.

If you want to see blobs devolve into smaller groups or atleast spread out more increase aoe cap. Once upon 2012 , 4 meteor showers killed 40 ppl standing in the same spot.

I tots agree that anet should support gvg

So wvwer asks for things to have high rank for.

Anet responds creating items that require high rank.

Wvwer gets it.

Pveer says wants same at lower rank.

Anet caves. Lowers rank req.

Pveer gets it too.

Wvwer asks for other things that necessitate high wvw rank.

If anet provides….

Pveer will want that too and complain until anet caves.

…..

Seems like a never ending cycle. What can wvwers with high rank get that others cant?

If you say the answer should be “nothing useful or cool” isnt that just being spiteful?

I reccomend teq for u instead of wvw.

The deaf contribute plenty to wvw we have in our guild and they do fine. We all know theyre deaf. FIND a wvw guild! Solve your problems. Pugmander tags arent going to care about your problems mor will anet. If you really want to enjoy wvw thats what I suggest. Become a part of the community rather tthan the crazy troll in map chat/forums.