Guild Wars 2

Kuju.2153:

They can’t do it due to technical/bandwidth limitations… you know this.

DOH! I didn’t even think about bandwidth. This explains a lot.

I wonder if they upgraded the flux capacitor, do you think that would help?

Grumpy

Jayne.9251:

Oh this has been asked for since I think about BW2 weekend? I believe they can’t do it because it would give out a false-concrete finite number .. your spot out of how many are actually allowed on map. That seems to be a flexible number that Anet doesn’t seem to want to divulge

Surely if it had been asked for previously, they would have delivered the feature request. Maybe you are mistaken?

Anyone else stuck in a queue bored and want to chime in

Grumpy

This one is going to blow your mind!

Imagine you are sitting in the queue for WvW for hours. Do you know what might be great…

a number of where you are at in the queue. I know right… mind blowing!

you are 147 of 600 in the queue

and it could update over time…

you are 123 of 666 in the queue

thanks!

</snark>

nothing else to do…

Grumpy

Xinthai.6175:

That’s why we tried to ninja their hills during that garrison fight, right?

You just need to understand the way a BG/SoR matchup works.

I saw great respect for TC. Thank you for showing that level of respect. It means a lot.

-g

I see BG and SOR are in an alliance on TC BL, thank you for the respect, we appreciate it.

-g

Offski.4897:

This thread has to be kept alive, adding RNG into the match ups was mindless (or economic, more gems to pay for transfers). I find it unbelievable that one up one down was not introduced.

This was inevitable, the old system matched you up with the servers that most mirrored you. That meant you could play the same two servers 6 weeks in a row. If you change from the system, you will sometimes get rolled and sometimes do the rolling.

Anyone that thought anything different didn’t understand the ranking system.

I’ll likely say this until I stop reading these forums. Let’s do 24 hour matches.

I played a bazillion 10 minute battlefield2 matches in my lifetime, 10 minutes never felt too short. 24 hours won’t be too short here either.

24 won’t fix all the problems either, but it will mask a lot of them until anet can figure out different solutions. with 24 hour matches maybe you could get WvW guesting for a day.

-grumpy

Thank you for the replies.

@manbearpig, what you like is exactly what I do not like. The fact that you can get so far ahead that you can now “coast” some part of the week. (e.g. what you are saying is, the other teams can’t catch up). For me, it causes me to not want to log in and I say that if I am on the winning OR losing side.

@Markadis on yaksbend, we often lose the upgrades to non-North American time. when I log in and see a waypoint.. I think wow!

@Nabrok an accurate picture? what I want is competitive play anytime I play. By Tue/Wed/Thurs it seems like everyone has given up. See manbearpig’s response above.

@Nikked friday night magic.. exactly!! by FAR the best experience of the week is Friday.
Let’s figure out a way to duplicate that. By Sunday night.. most of the magic is gone and the winner/loser is already determined. People go on to do other things. See manbearpig’s response above.

@anet if one week is really loved that much then give us different servers. I’ll gladly move to a 24 hour server and lets others enjoy the week long server.

Thanks for playing along with a constructive debate.

Let me take this a step further, would the WvW team be willing to create a blog post on their pros and cons of why week long matches. I really don’t understand why you choose week long matches.

thanks

-g

I couldn’t agree more (for 24hour match-ups) but lets not do that because of a “new system”. Let’s do it because it makes sense.

I couldn’t be more perplexed than I am now with the WvW devs. I know their goal isn’t to create a poor WvW experience but as a player.. I’m not having fun.

-g

sdsakuragi.8170:

Last time I brought up ways to address population imbalance on the forums, someone pointed out that WvW was never meant to be completely balanced.

And the unbalanced side is not having fun. If you are stuck in 3rd place (population wise) of a tier for months on end.. this is not fun.

what other video games that are “mass battle” allow for such unbalanced numbers on each side and have been successful (fun)?

-grumpy

Polismassa, I really really hope you are wrong. If they did something to the rankings and population wasn’t a major factor in who you are matched up against.. I will have never been at more odds with a game company than I will be with anet.

-grumpy

You can’t.. it is not technically possible to limit one side to no more than 5-10 more players than the other side? This couldn’t be done?

-grump

I don’t know.. both Kaineng and Maguuma have great population numbers, big props to them.

Anet.. again I hope you fully understand this is not fun for those of us that do not. We are closing in on one year.. it’s time to get this right.

-grumpy

I really hope the new “ranking” system fixes population balance issues. This is not fun:

http://i.imgur.com/w7fPv64.jpg

-grumpy

Tripp.9862:

We had daily wvw resets at launch. It was boring, and it didn’t reflect a server’s true strengths at all.

I can’t say I pay much attention to Tier 1 but here are the current scores after ~2.5 days

Blackgate – 69 817
Jade Quarry – 62 165
Sanctum of Rall – 80 660

My guess is, 1st, 2nd, 3rd place won’t change by the end of the week.

BUT

My point for daily resets is not about the rankings, is it demoralizing to log in when you are down 50K sure but that is just a number, the real kick in the kitten is when you log in, the other team owns everything, with fully upgraded keeps (waypoints) etc.

Now you have to fight that uphill battle, for me it isn’t fun. For others, I suspect it isn’t fun either given the attitude and lack of players.

-g

renmei.3102:

I played a random no-name korean mass-pvp mmo (RF Online) where the maps were reset 3 times a day, every 8 hours to accommodate the different prime times (NA, EU and Asia). That probably wouldn’t work for GW2 but shortening the matchups down from a week would improve things imo.

I truly don’t understand why anet doesn’t get this. Week long matches horrible in this game.

I’m lucky if I log in twice a week now.

@anet.. we realize you can’t change the mechanics of WvW, but you can easily change the map reset time to sometime much more reasonable. Give it a go, what’s the worst that could happen?

-g

Sath.3562:

Hello all,

I started playing GW2 right when it came out. I played for about a month, ran WvW every day or so – and then learned how boring and dull it became, and quit.

Is it all still the same? WvW back then was group vs door, take the keep – move on to the next keep, and continue on doing that all day. It was very lackluster, and there was no purpose.

Exactly the same.

Aberrant.6749:

Yes yes we all want to sit at a camp doing nothing when we go to WvW…

+1, there could’t be a more unrewarding job in WvW and yet if you want to hold a keep/waypoint while you are out numbered on a map.. it’s what you have to do.

It’s not fun.

-g

violentlycar.5267:

I still think two games should run every day: One from, say, 8 PM to 8 AM, and another from 8 AM to 8 PM (EST). Servers would have separate ratings and matchups for each time zone, and players would be able to participate in both. Yes, there would be many problems to iron out, but I think properly implemented, it would be more fun for everyone than Coverage Wars.

+1

Try it out..what’s the worst that could happen?

-g

I have no doubt some servers have better players and are better organized but I do not think that is the root problem in WvW.

Any server (with the best players and best organization) can be beat when the population numbers are 3 to 1. We need population balance or some other crazy methodology where a much lower population server can balance out the score against overwhelming odds.

OR

Go to 24-48 hour matches.. there are many ways to add some balance to this game without a complete overhaul of the WvW mechanics, I am sure a dozen more have been suggested on these forums.

This point is.. this isn’t fun.

-g

I log in this morning, DB to their credit have great numbers and are owning every one:

DB 565
YB 85
MA 45

Overall score:

DB 86528
YB 35640
MA 30855

I believe WvW in this game for a majority of the tiers is in trouble. I’ll exclude Tier 1/2 from this as they may have great numbers 24×7.

Maybe it’s too hard to fix the balance issues given the game design.

It’s not fun.

Is anyone looking at fixing these population imbalances or is this the game?

-g

Score:

DB = 76776
YB = 34130
MA = 34025

15 min points

DB: 550
YB: 50
MA: 95

Less than 48 hours into the new match DB has double the other two, it is completing owning the other two servers.

This isn’t fun, this whole week will not be fun. Next week won’t be fun.

If you are lucky, you will find a few hours here or there when there is population balance.

This isn’t fun.

-g

funny enough, I log in this morning, it’s 11:05 AM EDT. DB has 50+, we have under 20 trying to hold Garrison.. guess how that turned out.

This isn’t fun. Let me say it again.. This isn’t fun.

All you can do with 50 vs 20 is lose. There is no strategy in this game that wins against that. Sure if all the stars align, you have siege down that hasn’t disappeared, etc etc etc.. you may be able to hold someone off.

I don’t care what the balance solution is, this isn’t fun.

I play this game 80% less than I used to and my guess is, a vast majority will jump to the next game when it arrives.

Just like culling was worked on day and night.. balanced matches should be worked on day and night if you want to have a wvw population that is worth talking about.

This isn’t fun.

-g

No one and I mean no one (unless your are a cutter) likes to play on a map when you are out manned. It’s not fun, plain and simple.

the game mechanics are broke, they have been broke and they will continue to be broke until the game developers fix the game.

put population caps on the maps so one side cannot severely outnumber the other side. Should have done this day 1 and it should be done day 245??

fix the game.

p.s re-posted to meet forum guidelines.

I have no idea how many times this has been suggested and I really don’t care.

Hacking / glitching in WvW needs to be a re-portable offense. Today I choose to report someone as “scamming” as it was the best available option.

fix your game!

-g

as a WvW player, this is a #fail. the PvE team should work much closer with the WvW team. It may not really matter as WvW is failing anyways..

anytime there isn’t a queue in a WvW map, the incentives, rewards, buffs, etc for entering WvW should be so high, essentially most people will join WvW to accomplish their personal goals.

(and you are absolutely correct, 7 day matches are too long)

fingers crossed anet fixes just enough of these real issues next month.

-g

I apologize if this has been discussed before but a quick search did not return any results.

All too often I do not see 2nd and 3rd place ganging up on 1st place. In theory 1st place would always be battling 2nd and 3rd. In my tier(s) I rarely see that as a consistent strategy. Of course you can find it happening a 4 hour stretch here or a 4 hour stretch but it is not a general rule.

Any thoughts?

-g

MikeFerguson.8921:

Finally, matches are going to remain a week long. We feel that the 24 hour matches are not representative of what we consider ‘standard’ gameplay, and actually create a lot of incorrect data in the system because people play the game much differently when it’s a 24 hour match compared to a 7 day one.

I have no doubt that servers do play differently in a 24 hour match vs a 7 day match. The real problem with this is, when the match is essentially over after the first 24 hours, you have 6 days of ‘terrible’ game play. When this happens 2 weeks in a row (tier 4) that means 2 of the last 14 days has been fun.

I do not want to wait 4-6 weeks until the matches are balanced. I hope this works out the way you expect and if it doesn’t, you’ll hear from us again.

Thanks for listening.

-g

I applaud the rating reset and I STRONGLY encourage Anet to give us several weeks of 24 hour matches.. other wise they will have endure more posts pointing out how much fun we are not having <smiles>

Thanks!

Let’s take a look at this week after ~72 hours.

Tier 1: Not Fun
– difference between first and second: 28648
Tier 2: Not Fun
– difference between first and second: 136591
Tier 3: Not Fun
– difference between first and second: 17020
Tier 4: Not Fun
– difference between first and second: 166908
Tier 5: Not Fun
– difference between first and second: 52873
Tier 6: Not Fun
– difference between first and second: 11251
Tier 7: Not Fun
– difference between first and second: 33679
Tier 8: Not Fun
– difference between first and second: 49981

Summary:
Fun = 0
Not fun = 8

Using my “pulled out of thin air” metric of a 10,000 point difference as “not fun”, all of our matches are now “not fun”. For those of you wondering, I choose 10,000 as the 2nd place team would have to beat the 1st place team by an average of 100 points every tick for a full day to just “break even”. That seems very unlikely.

What am I asking for again? We reset the matches every 24/48 hours opposed to once every seven days. If / when it is proven a vast majority of the matches are competitive after 24/48 hours.. then we can move to longer matches.

Anet? humor me.. reset the matches right now

-g

Let’s take a look at this week after ~48 hours.

Tier 1: Not Fun
– difference between first and second: 15432

Tier 2: Not Fun
– difference between first and second: 76792

Tier 3: Fun
– difference between first and second: 8800

Tier 4: Not Fun
– difference between first and second: 109532

Tier 5: Not Fun
– difference between first and second: 30089

Tier 6: Fun
– difference between first and second: 8503

Tier 7: Not Fun
– difference between first and second: 29548

Tier 8: Not Fun
– difference between first and second: 35890

Summary:

Fun = 2
Not fun = 6

We lost another tier to the “not fun” category. We have two tiers inching closer to a difference of 10,000 points.

Anet?

-g

Let’s take a look at this week after ~39 hours.

Tier 1: Fun
– difference between first and second: 7883

Tier 2: Not Fun
– difference between first and second: 59002

Tier 3: Fun
– difference between first and second: 5677

Tier 4 : Not Fun
– difference between first and second: 84994

Tier 5: Not Fun
– difference between first and second: 29782

Tier 6: Fun
– difference between first and second: 5712

Tier 7: Not Fun
– difference between first and second: 18439

Tier 8: Not Fun
– difference between first and second: 23890

Summary:

Fun = 3
Not fun = 5

Let’s congratulate the winners and losers for well fought matches, shuffle the teams and start again!

Anet: What say you?

Free server transfers are only one part of the problem we are experiencing.

Natural imbalance among the tiers is another problem.

For example:

Let’s pretend there are four servers that are by far better than every other server in the game.

Only three of those servers can be in tier one. That forth server will clean up in tier two every week. (For the entire week)

Multiple this scenario by eight tiers.

I am not asking Anet to magically balance each server, all I am asking is to reset the matches more often so we have multiple chances to win or lose.

I also know this is not a long term solution but it seems a lot better than what we have on the table now. For those servers this week that still have a competitive match-up, I envy you and wish you the best of luck!

It appears to me that in the lower tiers you do not find evenly matched servers. It is almost certainly a long term problem to figure out how to give some balance to the servers that do not have the same population as another server in their tier.

I do not believe stopping free server transfers will solve this problem.

If we have shorter WvW matches, we could at at least have multiple opportunities a week to put up a good fight. The winners want a good fight as do the losers.

I am perplexed that everyone thinks this is a server transfer issue. All other things being equal, Kaineng or Maguuma would roll their tier 4 opponents for the foreseeable future. What I am asking for is, if we are to be rolled, let it be for a much shorter duration.

24 hour matches are not a long term solution to create a competitive WvW enviroment. It is a short term solution to allow servers to feel like they have a chance when severe imbalance is at play.

Anet: I know this is hard to hear… many talented developers have spent 4-5 years designing a game to be “fun”. In many ways GW2 is a AAA game and did some innovative things that MMORPGs for years to come will imitate.

Unfortunately this does not translate into a WvW environment that is fun for every server/match.

Current Tier 4 scores:

Kaineng: 50,856
Yak’s Bend: 15,131
Crystal Desert: 9,138

After 19 hours, Kaineng has proven they are superior to the other severs in this teir (congrats to them). We have to wait 149 hours (6 days) to attempt to be competitive once again.

Last week Tier 4 final score:

Maguuma: 497,675
Yak’s Bend: 83,648
Isle of Janthir: 33,157

I don’t have scores after 19 hours from the previous week but I know it was roughly the same deal. After 19 hours Maguuma had proven they were superior to the other severs in that match (again, congrats to them).

We had to wait for 6 days (149 hours) for our next chance to be competitive.

I urge Anet to get into emergency mode or at the very least, talk openly and often about this problem. Your player base will not wait around long.. anyone remember Warhammer online?

If I set the technical direction for WvW, which I obviously do not I would limit the WvW matchups to 24-48 hour periods until we can find time to create an environment that offers a competitive matchup for the duration of the event.

-g

Obviously I am being a little facetious but this does highlight a serious point. This isn’t fun for anyone involved.

I hope you are working on ideas to limit weeks like this. I can’t imagine the winners (Maguuma, congrats) or the losers sticking around for this game play in the long term.

Thanks

p.s. I wish I would have taken the screenshot 60 seconds before, 695,0,0

Brilliant! This is an early x-mas gift.

Anymras, thank you for showing me the light

All of us that play video games and read related forums know very well the maturity level varies greatly.

Of of the best features of any mmo is /ignore. (btw can we get an achievement for the liberal use of this feature)

How about a /ignore for the forums. The exact people I ignore in the game are likely the same people I want to ignore in the forums.

Help me drown out the noise!

Thanks!

Big fan of how it currently works. I would encourage more of these. Anything that brings players together in WvW is a huge win for WvW.

(minus PvE events in WvW)