Guild Wars 2

Khyras.8021:

Would not be crap would be reasonable.Every time im downed its either retaliation

Retaliation requires you to be attacking into them. Dont do this.

Khyras.8021:

conditions

Bleeds require time to apply enough stacks to do any sort of noticable damage. Wait till it stacks up and then wipe them to reset your opponents damage output. This is balanced, if you find yourself constantly dieing to conditions, I’d suggest looking at more condition removal options. All classes have them.

Khyras.8021:

or thief burst.

Is (hopefully) being properly address in the patch in 2-3 days.

Khyras.8021:

Where is normal damage? why is it considered second grade?

Everywhere, and it isn’t, im guessing you’re just a build that is resiliant to regular damage.

Khyras.8021:

Condition damage should be auxiliary except maybe for necros, not main source of damage on almost every occasion.

That’s just like, your opinion. Man.

There are excellent ways of mitigating condition damage, it’s called condition removal.

Dee Jay.2460:

I’m fairly confident you have the same overall stats in sPvP as you’d have with regular exotics in normal WvW.

The only thing that affected WvW was the boosters and the Orb buffs, which don’t exist any more.

Yep, all the stats from pve armour, jewelery etc. are all condensed onto the amulet and jewel in the amulet

2 seconds of stealth on steal.

I use it when running P/D to give another stealth to stack more bleeds.

It does have that added benefit of getting a sneaky stomp however.

Yeah I will agree that it is kinda disheartening. Seeing a patch downloading, thinking “Awesome, what got fixed up?” then seeing this:

“Corrected drop rate for Unidentified Dye.

On November 1, we introduced a change that unintentionally increased the drop rate of Unidentified Dye. Today’s game update corrects the drop rate for Unidentified Dye."

Yee haw.

Quick, post the screen shot of your thief’s #1 place finish in a 8v8 hotjoin to prove that this will save spvp

Edelweiss.9815:

That’s why Stealth should be nerfed.

A 5 sec. long Revealed and the Backstab nerf will solve most of the Thief’s OPness.

This would hurt P/D condition builds quite a lot. Just sayin’

ddrake.5436:

I’m glad we finally had this discussion, my 2 cents:

I also believe we need an elite to syn with dual pistols as this is my build. thieves guild is good, but just doesn’t feel right. maybe a gun manouver or grenade throw like an engineer? I don’t know, but I agree with OP that they need to look at this for dual pistols.

Since elites dont have anything to do with what weaps you have equipped, I doubt they will make an elite specifically with dual pistols in mind.

I dont think they’re lackluster at all, they are quite good in comparison to what some other classes have.

Dagger storm is good for WvW, Thieves guild is good for sPvP. I generally find bask venom to be meh aside from it’s common obvious use.

Yeah, sorry I added in a seperate quote and addressed the role-easy-thing bit of your post.

Mammoth.1975:

I think you still need to come up with a utility or weapon based mitigation technique that actually works against this for each class. The only option I have is on a ninety second cooldown (and it only mitigates a third of the damage anyway), while thieves can spam 4 dds every 10-20s depending on spec. I’m still fine with it, because I’m not built like glass, so 99% of thieves are basically roadkill for me, but that doesn’t make the glass v glass matchup any more fun when one side is a thief.

Would it be out of line of me to say that in the matter of glass v glass that thieves may have an edge over other glass as it’s what their mechanics allow them to do?

I’d also say that anyone that isnt built glass has an edge over thieves because thats what their builds/mechanics allow them to do.

You say yourself that you roadkill 99% of glass thieves, I believe that wouldnt be your class being OP, that would be a superior build for the situation of you vs glass thief.

As for coming up with a utility or weapon based mitigation?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invulnerability
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blind
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Dodge
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reflect

The same stuff that you use to mitigate any other projectile in the game.

I leave daze/stun/knockdown etc. because they dont really mitigate, just delay. But you could also use these to unload on the thief because they are glass and die when you sneeze on them.

Mammoth.1975:

I understand the role they’re supposed to fill, but it shouldn’t be so easy to fill, nor should the outcome be such a certainty.

As do I, which I why I support a BS tweaking. However spamming 4 DD in succession isnt and never should be a certain win, not because it’s OP, but because it is exceptionally easy to mitigate the vast majority of damage in many circumstances.

Caltrops that use up a poison counter without activating a poison sounds like nothing but a bug.

Go go bug report, and take some deep breaths. This thread reads as over the top ragey.

Edt: To be honest it’s quite a clever idea, having caltrops trigger an immobilise venom, or something, to keep them on the trops for longer

+1 for idea

Shame about it’s bugged nature.

Mammoth.1975:

I don’t have an issue with dancing dagger, I have an issue with stupid arguments.

I think Anet should put in another language filter that replaces “Dodge” with “Dodge + any utility or weapon based mitigation techniques”

So these sorts of things are avoided in future. (I swear there was no pun intended)

Did you put in a bug report or did you just create this thread?

Noctred.6732:

Dunno how they’re classified but I do know that effects which increase stun duration also increase daze duration – or at least those sigils do.

Interesting, I did not know that. Testing is in order

Mammoth.1975:

I too, have infinite energy. Everything is balanced because I can always ‘just dodge it’. I mean, this was only 4 dancing daggers. If you can’t dodge 4 times in 5 seconds, you deserve to lose.

You have no stuns/dazes/invulns/weapon based evades/heals/blocks/blinds/weaknesses/protection/retaliation or second hp bars that you could use in the mean time? How bout an immobilize and move out of range? No? Nothing? Only 2 evades?

The only time when DD is a bit silly is when its bouncing between a downed player and someone rezzing.

I support a tone down of BS because it does happen very quickly and the damage is a bit on the extreme side with the CnD/Steal/BS combo.

However if you legitimatly get down to a DD spamming thief, then you get no sympathy, and my only advice is l2p.

Yes

Message Body length must at least be 15.

Are dazes classed as stuns?

Stop putting ideas in people heads.

I’m checking announcements every day for upcoming patch notes, and every day im disappoint.

There are 2 changes in particular that I’m hanging out for, as long as they are put in and work sufficiently, I’ll be satisfied.

What I hate the most is the waiting.

labotimy.2439:

they shouldnt stop there, all burst should be toned down whether its shatter, backstab, or 100b. low ttk is bad for the health of any mmo that has rpg mechanics. this has been proven time and time again, how many players were driven to quit by BW and pyromancers? i saw first hand the power of ruin and destruction or flame puddle stacking or CC immunity plus 25% damage mitigation by standing in a puddle hurling 1 shot fireballs.

know before you talk mmmk? kthxbai.

First off I never played those games, nor did I say I did, nor did I comment on them, nor do I care about them. But please keep talking about them to try and prove how wrong I am.

My question was for Fell as he’s basically been on a campaign for a while over how crazy BS is, which I dont disagree with. I’m asking him if he’s aware that Anet has already stated they will be lowering the build’s raw damage.

Dont be a tool while talking mmmk? kthxbai.

Fellknight.4820:

Answer me this one question do you believe taking 75% of someone’s life in under 1.5 seconds or with a single strike is ok?

Did you know that devs have already said that they are looking at backstab burst damage and will be reducing is raw damage?

Fellknight.4820:

Words

Oh hey, I remember you, you’re the guy that not long ago (couple hours) posted a giant thief whine post that got deleted. You said that you’ve been playing pvp for 15 years and have won tournaments!

Fellknight.4820:

It’s pve players like yourself that join into quick easy pvp systems, find an op spec and then try to say that the easy mindless button mashing tactics take skill and are needed for that class to be around.

And it’s stuff like this that makes you a massive tool. Person disagrees with you and puts forward good points? Better call them a pve player that mashes buttons to win.

Please go and roll a thief and get top score in a 8v8 hotjoin and use that as proof of the class needing a nerf. Oh you did that?

We should base all balance decisions on the possibity of getting top of the board in an 8v8 hotjoin.

Your OP was actually pretty good and constructive this time, at least try not to put on the angry pants and go namecalling in the next thief whine post you make.

Ahhh, my bad, must’ve missed that note

Daendur.2357:

Stolen whirlwind doesn’t provide any invulnerability at all.

It doesn’t? Was it nerfed?

I’m sure it does (not “Invuln” but “Evade”), or at least did.

Perhaps use shortbow more in these warrior situations, remember that SB 3 is a cripple and also an evade, so if you need to dodge cc or them big hits you can always fall back on this if you’re short on endurance. Keeping your distance will be key, because much of the warriors CC is a LOT easier to dodge if you have some distance

I’d say also turn off your arrow’s auto attacks by holding ctrl and right clicking the skill, if he’s running shield and puts up the reflects, you can do yourself a lot of damage. It means you’ll need to hit 1 to fire, but it might save you a few k hp or a panic dodge when he starts reflecting.

Remember you can steal and use whirlies for some invuln time if you’re desperate.

Finish when possible, or maybe swap to daggers when he’s burned through some heals/invulns.

Sorry if I’ve gone over stuff you’re already tried or am not specific enough. high offense D/D builds are not what I primarily run.

I guess my ownly other tip would be to get a buddy who has a warrior to join you in an empty spvp server, match up your equip and fight them over and over.

Good luck

Niftylen.9156:

This made me intrigued about the viability of P/P in PvP, this guy owns, though he is a bit kitteny haha

He isnt running P/P, he’s running P/D.

Niftylen.9156:

WISH we had a rifle so we could be awesome snipers (that said I’d rather have sword offhand)

Ya I want me some 420 fakey noscopez too.

Edit: To answer the thread title, yes I’m a thief, picked it from the first time I read about the professions. Played in primarily since closed beta.

I would like to see zealots defence hit a little be easier.

I’ll give an example, yesterday I was running in WvW. Jumped an enemy dolyak that had no defenders, stood maybe 10 feet away from it’s side and used zealots defence.

0 damage, every single projectile missed an un-swiftenessed dolyak. Now It’s my fault for not attacking from directly in front or directly behind, but I guess I felt like being able to hit a dolyak with this attack should be possible from any angle.

So you’re saying that you find thief to be only backstabbing or leading up to backstab?

Heres a revolutionary, some would say crazy, idea for you.

Dont run a backstab build.

I know it seems like it’s a ridiculous concept, like skinny dipping with your clothes on. But it CAN work.

Nah nah nah, what we need is a pair of forums. One is call “Thief” the other is called “Thief complaints”. Any whine thread in the Thief forum is deleted or moved to the complains forum

The problem here is that Anet are not basing the nerf on situations from WvW. They’ve said that WvW is imbalanced and it always will be, I’m pretty sure they aren’t balancing around that.

5v5s is what they balance around. You dont hit 18ks in structured but they obviously feel that spvp backstab damage is still too high

Kallist.5917:

Its a flaw in the games engine. “Fixing” it would most likely involve redesigning the engine, then essentially rewriting millions of lines of code to fix what the redesign broke, costing lots of money and time. The chance of them doing that is pretty slim.

Well actually:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Please-fix-this-sooner-rather-than-later-Vid-attached/first#post622762

If it fixes it completely remains to be seen.

Yeah and I just told them how.

It’s that or just tick the “Fix all bugs instantly” checkbox before running the next build and this game would be perfect.

OOOOHHHH yeah, you see what ANet did here was when they coded stealth they left the “Have_stealth_render_be_broken” boolean set to T.

They just need to change that to F and release the build.

Trust me, I’m a professional.

Edit: changed spaces to underscores, because kitten spaces

It’s a 3 second fear

Adding conditions would not compensate any where near enough because backstab is primarily used in damage/crit based builds, which ususally involves no focus on condisions at all.

I agree with doomdesire here, as it’s pretty much word for word what I said in another thread and I’m sure has been suggested elsewhere.

Leave damage relatively, if not completely, untouched and remove the CnD/steal combo and have steal not apply venoms, or not apply basilisk.

This changes the available reaction time of the target from next to nothing to seeing the steal, seeing the CnD and the time needed for the thief to position.

The thief CAN however still do quick backstabs by traiting stealth on steal instead of mug, or using something like blinding powder to get a quick stealth, this however lowers the overall damage of the combo due to no mug or no CnD.

I’m sure you know this, but you can still tab onto a thief with the rendering issue to have a little red arrow above their head even if they aren’t rendered.

The issue still needs to be fixed, but there are ways of making it a bit easier to deal with.

Imperator totius Sylvari.9164:

But on an unrelated note backstabs damage should not be nerfed, infact the skill should not even be touched, nerf the range on steal to something like 300….

Brilliant, nerf the ability that all thief builds use and nerf the profession across the board, instead of targetting the 1 ability that has the problem.

You must be some kind of balance savant.

How about we actually see what the changes are before boycotting.

Chirst, the freaking thief community makes me feel like changing class more than anet nerfs or whiners.

Doomdesire.9365:

As many of you know recently a developer came on a thread inferring that a backstab nerf to thief was inevitable. This was made in regards to a thread where a warrior wanted a nerf because he took a 8K damage hit

It was a guardian, and I strongly doubt they are basing the nerf on that one thread.

Doomdesire.9365:

By doing this, anet is essentially turning a thief’s only glass cannon build into a glass cannon build with the cannon part.

Basing this entirely on nothing but your own sky is falling melodramatic posts.

Doomdesire.9365:

Answer me this question : Why do you feel the need to nerf a glass cannon thief while not nerfing 100 blades + frenzy combo that can do more damage than 8K damage dealt from warriors that aren’t entirely glass cannon.

If you’re going to make a case for your own class, it generally helps to justify your use for it and not “Wahhh well they get that, why is that fair?”

Particularly when what you’re talking about is easily avoidable/couterable.

Doomdesire.9365:

Thieves who are against this nerf need to speak up. If you are against this, make your own thread, so anet can hear us out

Awful idea, wow. I’m all for getting yourself heard, but everyone making your own thread is a freaking stupid idea.

Dixa.6017:

you have an easier time fighting back from being jumped in battlefield 3 than being jumped by a thief in this game.

You never played competitive BF3 then did you?

I see what you’re saying but this comparison is so bad, not to mention wrong.

Devildoc.6721:

They’re going to nerf backstab damage and leave everything else as is, they aren’t going to add any damage back in anywhere else.
Look at heartseeker, overall damage just dropped, they didn’t put damage anywhere else.

I only based this on “but we’ll be careful to increase other areas to compensate.” – in regards to lowering raw damage of these builds (backstabbing). I dont recall seeing any Anet dev saying that they’d compensate those other builds like they’ve said here.

Whether this happens or not is an entirely different story, however I’m hopeful.

bwillb.2165:

Refuse to give an FoV option or fix the myriad of camera..

Isnt something to do with FoV in beta atm?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/FOV-Field-of-View-Changes-Beta-Test/first#post551634

Or am i misunderstanding what that is?

(sorry bout the OT comment)

Edit: also comment thread here with screens of changes and the heaped praise.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/tech/FOV-Field-of-View-Changes-Beta-Test-Feedback-Thread/first#post551648

What I hope to come out of this is for:

- All the FOTM thieves to go back to their own professions, and leave thief to those that enjoy their class.

- People that are good with backstab still perform well with it instead of bads trolling other bads with it.

- Stop the constant QQ waves thrown at the thief class.

- Being allowed to ask/suggest buffs in areas that could use some lovin without “LoL Just BS or spam 2222@@!!”

frans.8092:

I have no faith that you will fix the rendering issue, ever. Which will likely reduce the already lacking performance of the client. The rendering bug does not exist for AI, nerfing profession skills to compensate for this bug will reduce PvE performance and thus the ability to group.

What does the rendering issue have to do with backstab damage when backstab is conducted from stealth?

Doomdesire.9365:

The only respectable and comparable playstyle left after this is condition damage. I could accept pistol whip nerf, assassins signet nerf, but plain out nerfing raw damage isn’t what should happen. What have thieves left after this, besides condition damage? And then what makes thief unique after this nerf? Surely it’s not the condition build, as almost all classes can do it.

I think you’re over-reacting in thinking this damage change is going to remove all options to thieves besides conditions.

Doomdesire, it might be best to see what the changes are before writing off the entire build and entire class when Nerf != instantly useless.

Overall damage nerf, no.

Same damage but more difficult to execute or easier to avoid/counter, yes.

Edit :Example (potentially a bad one), lower damage on BS but increase damage on #3 abilities when dagger is in the offhand to give the same damage. Same/similar burst, easier to counter/avoid

This is just an example to show what I mean, btw.

Double edit: Or just leave it exactly as is, have steal interupt CnD cast and have steal not apply bas venom.

Because the passive speed you’re talking about is from a utility skill. Making that our suriviability mechanic would mean that it would be a required utilitiy, which is not how class defenses should function.