Guild Wars 2

So many people completely ignorant to the point of this thread and instead harp on about meta this and meta that. trying to assault for for disliking mindless meta drones. Whatever
I’m done with this thread, I’m obviously not going to get through to you people.

Hopefully things change and the toxic players move on. I’m dissapointed at the people in this community.

Such a shame so many homed in on meta and ignored everything else like I wounded them deeply because of my dislike of meta. Pathetic.

skarpak.8594:

Like I said, a stone thrown by a master will outperform a knife thrown by a amateur.

the master would be quite an idiot if he has a better weapon at hand in a srs situation and still throws the stone. :S

btw. did you know, that in most guides there is a explanation why to use this and how to use this.
basically…every amateur and every bad player would totally outperform you with your stone, if you give him a meta build, tell him the rotation and what he has to do @ the raid boss.

edit: but well…better throw stones as master, even if you have knifes…you could be too good for your team. nvm.

You missed the point. If someone can perform better than “meta” without using it and use things they desire to use, then why should they be penalized? What matters is the person not the build/weapons one chooses.

skarpak.8594:

Like I said, a stone thrown by a master will outperform a knife thrown by a amateur.

the master would be quite an idiot if he has a better weapon at hand in a srs situation and still throws the stone. :S

btw. did you know, that in most guides there is a explanation why to use this and how to use this.
basically…every amateur and every bad player would totally outperform you with your stone, if you give him a meta build, tell him the rotation and what he has to do @ the raid boss.

I know the opposite is true. Frequently I run into mindless meta drones who stick the build on and enter pvp, they are so easy to point out and defeat even in 1v1. I’ve not actually died to a 1v1 in pvp for quite some time vs meta drones, predictible, boring, and breeds incompetence. How exactly is this good?
Even in other games I’ve beaten far superior builds/characters/weaponry with joke weapons or stupidly weak weapons. What matters is who is using a build and what they can do, not the build itself, you need both.

Rashy.4165

It does matter if you are rejected if you are not up to the standards of others with items.

“switching tactics” will not sway the minds of people who expect experience when they don’t let you get experience.

Not everyone IS of equal skill level so you are making assumptions. They are subjectivly optimal.
Like I said, a stone thrown by a master will outperform a knife thrown by a amateur.
Anyone can stick a build on but chances are if they dont know how to use they will perform subpar.

“Go straight for raiding guilds” I’m not repeating myself why that is stupid.

skarpak.8594

I dislike meta for various reasons. It breed this sort of attitude. It breed sloppy behavior, it breeds inability to understand your own professions, mindlessly use other peoples playstyles and that is all you get, mindless people.

I’ve grown sick of it in pvp over the years seeing EVERY proffesion run 1-2 builds at most with no diversity, no sense of challenge or experimentation. It breeds boredom and staleness in content. Raids are no different, it seems to just breed elitists and people wanting to complete content for the sake of completing it in the fastest/most effecient time instead of doing it for fun in interesting ways with builds and weapons each person enjoys.

People like that have no creativity and no desire to truely learn. I have no patience for it. People can be free to do it if they wish, don’t ask me to join in nor like it.

It’s not that you want newcomers to have an easier time, its you want people to play your way instead of your own. Like I said, teach them how to think, not what to think and they will grow better because of their own effort, not the efforts of others.

timmyf.1490:

Phoenix.1370:

Had you actually been constructive instead of homing in on meta and defending it like a mindless sheep then maybe we could have gotten somewhere constructive.

I’m not defending the meta at all. I’m explaining why you’re a high-risk player based on your attitude.

My attitude is fine, you just dislike it because I refuse to use meta.

I can change my build and adjust when asked to fit something, just don’texpect me to use meta, and boom hostility and defending meta because its the best blah blah. This is the problem.

Dominik.5162:

Phoenix.1370:

It’s obvious that this is the problem with raids and the attitudes of the people involved. Hostile. Toxic. Exclusionary. Elitism.

Ironically instead of discussing the problems/potential solutions, majority of people here chose to instead home in on meta and defend it like mindless drones and assault/insult me over that instead of addressing the other issues, instead choosing to ignore other barriers I have outlined, showing the exact hostility and toxicity I have been pointing out is the problem.

Maybe 1 or 2 people actually tried to address the point but further met by multiple others assaulting or insulting. Guess this is the community now. What a shame.

It’s very clear from your responses that the one being hostile and toxic is you, not the raiders.

Until yesterday i was in a german teaching guild and they had the following small requirements:

• being open minded to feedback and to adjust your build accordingly on the options available and best for the team
• at least exotic armor with the proper runes (that is usually strength/scholar for raw dmg)
• asc trinkets (exotic for condi dmg is ok since vipers is hard to obtain)
• exotic/asc weapons with proper sigils

they had no requirements regarding classes/kills/experience, i saw exactly 1 kick because of someone refusing to change his build accordingly to what is best for the team, in the end he threw a tantrum because nobody invited him resulting in a kick.

If I were you i would change your mindset a little bit, i had someone ask me why i dont run Honor on a DH on matthias but virtues instead, i told them why and they accepted it. People refusing to play with you is most likely on you, because of your hostility

Whatever. I have stated my experiences, met with hostility. Here and elsewhere.
The problem is the attitude of the people who raid. This is clear and the ones in on it do not see themselves.

Sorry I am not a mindless drone and refuse to be one in order to enjoy content. Change sure but people ignore that part, instead insist one way only and no discussion on it.

The community is evidently toxic and hostile to beginners in this field. Such a shame.

As I said, this thread is going nowhere as people again and again home in on only a tiny section of what I object to and take issue with and like sheep mindlessly defend it and insult anyone who dislikes meta. instead of addressing any other of my points, instead blame me without even attempting to read my other objections. Further evidence to the mindset and attitudes of those who raid. Maybe it’s for the best I don’t enjoy raids, especially if it turns people into hostile elitists.

timmyf.1490:

Phoenix.1370:

timmyf.1490:

Phoenix.1370:

Ask me to drop a skill or take an alternative? Like the shield or legend? Sure no problem. What matters is the attitude and mindset. Do not ask me to adopt meta clone, I will not do it. When met with this, I meet hostility.

The term for this is “high-maintenance.” As a raid leader, I can’t trust you to do the right thing automatically, nor can I just tell you what I want. Instead, I must tiptoe around making sure not to offend your sensibilities.

I would not invite you back to my groups and that is why. You’re too much work. I can’t devote that much energy to you while still successfully leading the group.

I’m sure you won’t like that answer, but that’s me keeping it 100.

Wrong. It’s just your mindset. I happen to do perfectly fine on my own or with a team, you just have the mindset of everyone is incompetent and must follow your directions or they will not perform to standard.

I do not get offended easy. What I am offended by is the terrible sense of community when it comes to raids, it’s sad when someone cannot enjoy content because people who have attitudes and hostility happen to had time to get into positions first.

I don’t think you’re incompetent, I think you’re a poor team player, difficult to manage, and likely to lead to group drama. This thread is a good example. You don’t mesh well with other raiders… and worse, you don’t seem to care about that. Or you think it’s our problem.

If you can’t play well in a team, it’s not crazy for the team to decide you don’t belong.

Wrong. I simply defending myself when met with hositility in this thread, I’m sorry you don’t like it when someone defends their opinions and experiences and simply cry out that this person is leading drama or a poor team player. Sorry you don’t get to insult others and not expect hostility back.

Had you actually been constructive instead of homing in on meta and defending it like a mindless sheep then maybe we could have gotten somewhere constructive.

Triggerbrand.8072:

If your way works so well then why haven’t you cleared the raids?

Had you actually read the thread you would understand that your question is ignorant and completely nonsensical

Triggerbrand.8072:

TLDR: Cater to what the raid needs.

Then don’t post if you don’t have anything constructive to say.

timmyf.1490:

Phoenix.1370:

Ask me to drop a skill or take an alternative? Like the shield or legend? Sure no problem. What matters is the attitude and mindset. Do not ask me to adopt meta clone, I will not do it. When met with this, I meet hostility.

The term for this is “high-maintenance.” As a raid leader, I can’t trust you to do the right thing automatically, nor can I just tell you what I want. Instead, I must tiptoe around making sure not to offend your sensibilities.

I would not invite you back to my groups and that is why. You’re too much work. I can’t devote that much energy to you while still successfully leading the group.

I’m sure you won’t like that answer, but that’s me keeping it 100.

Wrong. It’s just your mindset. I happen to do perfectly fine on my own or with a team, you just have the mindset of everyone is incompetent and must follow your directions or they will not perform to standard.

I do not get offended easy. What I am offended by is the terrible sense of community when it comes to raids, it’s sad when someone cannot enjoy content because people who have attitudes and hostility happen to had time to get into positions first.

Murdyr.9204:

Hi Phoenix, not sure if you just never check the raid LFG or what’s up here, but I personally host Spirit Vale training runs (open to anyone) every Wednesday and Sunday and I know for a fact that a lot of other people do this too.

You were fine when I talked to you. The guild you referred me to happen to be really toxic.
One member rejecting my application and when I reponded as to why and defended my position my thread was locked without a correct response. The leader then proceeded to message me, and while still had attitude, less so.
The guild had members who were hostile and dismissive.

timmyf.1490:

Number 1 is relatively fine.
Wrong. I am hostile to those that demand I exactly clone a meta build, That’s it.
I won’t do that in majority of cases as either cannot realistically be done or I dislike using certain weapons for that proffesion, luckilythere isn’t TOO much to chose from with revenants.

Like I said, if you were to ask me to go more dps, I’d do it no questions asked. if you linked me a build and demanded I changed to that and swap out weapons/gear to match that. I’d have a problem with that.

It’s the demanding of meta and nothing else I have a problem with.

Ask me to drop a skill or take an alternative? Like the shield or legend? Sure no problem. What matters is the attitude and mindset. Do not ask me to adopt meta clone, I will not do it. When met with this, I meet hostility.

I have been met with nothing but hostility from majority of people here included, of course I’m going to be hostile back, you get what you are given. I defended why I dislike meta and repeatedly said this is not the only topic of the thread and everyone still wanted to bash on it. I was mainly concerned with the attitude and hostility I have faced from people leading/teaching more so than meta builds.

Wrong actually. I didn’t call anyone idiots. I just dislike the hostility. Be hostile to me and I will be hostile back.

And funny enough I did actually get a job doing that. Well not word for word, but close enough.

timmyf.1490:

Phoenix.1370:

When you understand that I’ll address you again.

Is it going to be my turn soon? Because I explained to you why you’re a liability to any raid team, yet you seem to just want to pick fights.

But I guess that’s the point of this thread.

Because it’s ignorant thinking. You seem to expect people to understand and perform to a level you like immediately when they are new to something. Unrealistic and ridiculous.

My issue is with thinking like yours. You don’t understand the point of this thread.
The community is too hostile to even get to the point you are talking about, you are pulling an unrealistic situation out your kitten that is irrelevant to the topic at hand, one cannot even get to the point you are on about because of hostility from “leaders” in these fields.

Coconut.7082:

Phoenix.1370:

No matter how much you explain it’s still met with misunderstanding and ignorance.

I feel the same way, at least we have that in common.

Phoenix.1370:

Coconut.7082
As I have said MANY times which you CLEARLY didn’t read. I have NO ISSUE changing builds, but given freedom to do it my way, I only have issue if meta is demanded with no deviation, then yes, I refuse. Tell me the role to fill and I’ll make it work, just don’t copy/paste me a build and demand I use it.

Sounds to me like you are asking for “my way or the high way”. Such elitism.
As I have said MANY times which you CLEARLY didn’t read: when you get experience, adjust your build to your liking. Right now, to PuG/Train groups, you know less than Jon Snow, so by the time you gain that experience, at least try to listen to the people that are trying to help you.

People like that demand others to play their way instead of learning for themselves.Demand a playstyle unfamiliar and foreign to them perhaps, or a playstyle they might dislike. I don’t want to do that. I’d rather play for fun using things I enjoy, sure I can make some sacrifices. Just don’t ask me to be a clone and mindlessly follow your way or the highway.

When you understand that I’ll address you again.

skarpak.8594:

it has nothing to do with being toxic or hostile to go after the meta.
if there is a group on lfg or whereever, and this group expects the players in this group to run the exact meta builds, then this is the choice of this group and this group / the leader has every right to kick players who don’t.

this has >nothing< to do with being toxic. its the choice of the group.

just to say, i expect my team to run the best food every time we raid and i expect that also from pugs i get into my group.
i tell them this at the start with the following: there are people in the group who have to run pretty expensive buff food, so pls do your share and don’t run with food wich costs only 2 silver, because that is being unfair.

if they don’t go after that, i kick them without any tear…and i don’t care if they are super exp and have 150 li or if they have only 10.

am i toxic for that? probably some people would say that, but i don’t care. i made this decicion before and i will tell it everybody on join. so its fair.
they either go with it, or they can leave…or expect to be kicked.
..and btw. i will tell them if they have the wrong bufffood in my eyes, even if its max.

and the same stuff, also applys to builds / armor / sigils / runes.

this is also not alone my decision, its a decision i made with my whole team.
so if we are lacking a person, we will together see if the pug fits and if minor stuff is okay…or even major stuff, because we are in carry mode and dont care about it…or if we say: no thanks, pls go.

Again, that is fine for lfg and I expect people to look for specifics and post what they want, that is fine I got no issue with that.

What I DO have issue with is the SAME requirments/demands with guilds attempting to teach and those in charge having an openly hostile and toxic attitude towards newcomers or those that question meta, someone like me simply cannot join majority of guilds because of unrealistic expectations for someone unexperienced.

Again, it’s fine for lfg. but if you run a teaching guild and have those requirments it is unrealistic don’t you think? I had no ascended at all before I started doing pvp, thankfully I have enough now for pretty much a full set and a couple weapons, had I not, that would be another barrier in my way. What about those who are broke? Who don’t simply have the money for more expensive food? Another barrier, which again is fine for lfg i understand those demanding specifics and is outlined. Guilds on the other hand have very similar demands and reject any who do not meet standards that cannot be gotten without first experiencing raids, which cannot be done without getting into the guild.

Coconut.7082

As I have said MANY times which you CLEARLY didn’t read. I have NO ISSUE changing builds, but given freedom to do it my way, I only have issue if meta is demanded with no deviation, then yes, I refuse. Tell me the role to fill and I’ll make it work, just don’t copy/paste me a build and demand I use it.

LegACy.1296:

Phoenix.1370:

I think the problem is the attitude of leaders who demand without explanation and reject those who choose not to because they have not had the experience of a raid. I lack the raid experience and thus do not know what works best, I also do not know the leader and they do not know how I play and perform, expecting someone to fit a roll in content they have not experienced or had the chance to experience and reject them based on that is bad. I really don’t get why you do not understand this?

Then help me understand it. Unlike some people here, I’m not interested in insulting you, I’m interested in understanding what problem you actually have.

Anyway, try seeing it from the leader’s perspective. They have a few roles that needs to be fulfilled by the group members so the run can be a success. To them, it doesn’t matter who filled role A, role B, or role C, as long as those roles are fulfilled. To them, it’s better to have people inexperienced with role A fulfilling that role rather than not having anyone with role A at all.

And it’s not only newcomers who experience that kind of stuff. If a veteran group if lacking, say, a healer, then they will look for that healer. If a super veteran pro guy comes along but he doesn’t have healer, then he will get the kick as well, since the group needs a healer, not anything else.

The problem I mentioned is the hostility and attitude of the vast majority of people attempting to lead newcomers into content. It’s not warm and is directly hostile as evidence in this thread, insults and ignorance as soon as you deviate from 1 single thing that is demanded.

No matter how much you explain it’s still met with misunderstanding and ignorance.

I get that, which is fine for LFGs, but attempting to join a guild is met with the same problem, you are expected to fit 1 roll and use 1 build only, don’t do that or use a different trait or not ping specific buffs or consumables you are not allowed to participate and met with hostility, atleast in my experience.

To me it seems it drives people away from joining in on content which to me wouldn’t that make content dead and not used? To me the responses I’ve had and guild’s I’ve attemnpted to join and pretty much everyone of them with unrealistic expectations and meta mindset has put me off even trying the content as it seems futile at this point. Now you get someone new going through same experience, bam another one put off trying something they might enjoy. Before long you have a tiny group enjoying content and refusing to let anyone else join in.

skarpak.8594:

you have a point there. there are many leaders out there who only explain mechanics of bossfights and expect that the people of the group know the groupsetup already.

well, you could also go a step forward and say, most of the leader actually don’t even know why the group is set up like this…mostly meta builds got addressed in guides, but there is nearly no guide towards groupsetup (yeah, some, but not many).

edit: are you by any chance german, phoenix?

That is the problem. Before anyone gets a taste they are rejected without even seeing for themselves WHY such things are required or even the ability to think for themselves. Meta or get out.
I have done, met with rejection and ignoring. Forum posts on their websites blocked when I question why and hostile. This is what I take issue with. People claim to train people and teach people but the moment they question or want to experience something for themselves or deviate it’s met with hostility.

I could be really unlucky and finding 15+ poor guilds/groups but this has been my experience SO FAR which is why I have made this post, my own little review of trying the content and been met with hostility and problems. More so than what people claim the problem is with just my build, largly due to the attitude of people leading.

No, I am British.

fishball.7204:

I don’t get why you don’t understand that you can make your own raid group and run whatever you want. Why do you expect other people to cater to you specifically?

What if 9 bearbow 3 signet rangers joined your raid group? Would you tell them to run something else or let them stay and waste a few hours wiping on VG since they don’t have the proper setups?

I can, but as I addressed earlier, what about those who come after? They will run into the same problem and this will cycle all over again, if content like this was made slightly easier for people to get their foot in the door, such as better incentives to take inexperienced players with you or certain bonuses etc, maybe it would be easier and more beneficial for experienced players to take people along.

I don’t want people to cater to me. I want the community to be less hostile and toxic against people who have no experience in the content or don’t wish to follow meta to the letter.

Coconut.7082:

Phoenix.1370:

fishball.7204:

Anyone who has raided for more than 2 hours could tell you shield is useless on Rev in raids. This isn’t sPvP, you don’t need the shield and offhand sword would be far more useful since it has a block and a CC.

The difficulty you face is because you think your special snowflake builds have merit when in fact they don’t since people have run hundreds of hours of raids testing everything to see what’s best.

Who said I would use this build specifically? I would most likely use a sword, that to me sounds more appealing than the axe laid out in the meta build. I know it doesn’t work in all cases, I just use it because I enjoy the extra healing for soloing content. Change isn’t my issue, the issue is the people demanding clones for meta and nothing else. Sure not everyone but 90% of the guilds teaching do demand such a thing and are hostile to anything less.

You did.
To you it does, but to someone else, who has hundreds of hours of experience in raids (and probably on rev too) it doesn’t, who’s more likely to be right?
OH-Sword is actually used on several occasions in raids and is considered “meta” (being not a rev player myself, I do not exactly know where). Being boxed in your own opinion, you just can’t understand what the “meta” is about.

Show me my quote where I said I would use this build specific and would refuse to change otherwise you are pulling bullkitten out your kitten .
What I have said is I will change to fit a roll using my own experiences and thoughts, not just copy/paste a build because it’s demanded of me.

LegACy.1296:

Phoenix.1370:

Revenant is my primary and I go for more dps than anything. I don’t know what the ideal way to do raids is because I haven’t had the experience of a raid yet due to the attitudes and restrictions of others.

Okay, this is going to be interesting…

You see, Revenant’s actual role in a raid is NOT dealing damage (surprise!). Instead, the reason why most group want Revenant in their composition is to provide Fury and increase the duration of mesmer’s Quickness buff. Oh, and also to provide cc for breakbar with staff. Their DPS is just a side bonus.

I think one of your problem is that people does not explain this stuff to you. Well, do keep in mind that people also need to explain raid mechanics to you (like standing on VG’s green or that VG splits every phase change). Most people decided to focus on explaining the raid mechanic instead of raid build and composition, since you can only experience raid mechanic inside the raid, but you can try build and composition anywhere else.

There could be another problem though. You might say that you don’t like simply being a boon bot like that. Well, I’m sorry, if you’re joining a group, then you need to do what the group asks. The only other alternative is to start your own group, then you’re free to do as you please

I think the problem is the attitude of leaders who demand without explanation and reject those who choose not to because they have not had the experience of a raid. I lack the raid experience and thus do not know what works best, I also do not know the leader and they do not know how I play and perform, expecting someone to fit a roll in content they have not experienced or had the chance to experience and reject them based on that is bad. I really don’t get why you do not understand this?

skarpak.8594:

good example with the shield: in an unexp group, breaksbars go down slow.
you, on the other hand, as an exp rev who knows how to break, have extra cc with the axe and more dmg…because you know, axe has a bigger dmg coeff. then the shield…or a sword in the second hand, thus more dmg on your mainhand skills.

so what do you bring to the group with the axe: more cc wich benefits it greatly and more dmg wich also benefits the group.
so: why are you using shield? you are not expected to heal the group, and you are not expected to stand arround 3 seconds doing nothing, because you are not the tank…if you stand behind vg, you don’t even get his cleave dmg. only thing that hurts is: standing in seeker orbs, where you should move out and not block, blue circles: wich you shouldn’t block, you can move out pretty early or dodge and the debuff wich ticks every x seconds…wich is the problem of the druids.

you have a block on your staff…so after your breakbar rota (wich lets you evade anyways), you can use that block to get rid of other incoming dmg, wich could spawn right after the breakbar was up.

so, why use shield?
edit: same i wrote on top also applys to the sword.

I’ve already addressed this.

Hazell.2065:

Do you even know what herald jobs in raids? When you’re using Shiro in raids , any decent raid leader will kick you except you’re doing mortars in Prison Camp encounter. You should stop being a special snowflake and play a proper build so you don’t drag 9 other people with you. I enjoyed pistol/pistol thief gameplay but there is no way I bringing it for raids.

There are some groups that don’t do gear/exp/LI check and actually succeed out there. Join those group and eventually you will get your exp and raid kill.

Again, COMPLETELY ignoring everything I’ve said. When did I say I won’t change my legends? I take shiro because he was one of my favourite characters in gw1, I got no issue changing for raids. It is the attitude of you must be an exact meta clone or get out that I have the issue with, if you lack some gear/deviate from traits you are excluded.

timmyf.1490:

Eh, his build is probably alright except for Hardening Persistence potentially drawing aggro. That’s really not the issue. He’s 95% running the meta build.

But for somebody who’s 95% meta to have such a negative attitude toward the meta? It’s likely a sign of large attitude issues. Huge red flag.

It’s the mindset of the meta and the attitude that is bred from it that I have the attitude towards.

fishball.7204:

Anyone who has raided for more than 2 hours could tell you shield is useless on Rev in raids. This isn’t sPvP, you don’t need the shield and offhand sword would be far more useful since it has a block and a CC.

The difficulty you face is because you think your special snowflake builds have merit when in fact they don’t since people have run hundreds of hours of raids testing everything to see what’s best.

Who said I would use this build specifically? I would most likely use a sword, that to me sounds more appealing than the axe laid out in the meta build. I know it doesn’t work in all cases, I just use it because I enjoy the extra healing for soloing content. Change isn’t my issue, the issue is the people demanding clones for meta and nothing else. Sure not everyone but 90% of the guilds teaching do demand such a thing and are hostile to anything less.

Lendruil.9061:

@ OP, just out of interest, would you be so kind and tell me your build?

Being on my revenant the current one I am using although I have switched to it recently after some tweaking.
Zerker gear with shiro/glint invo/dev/herald, invo is all top traits/dev is mid bottom top and herald is bottom mid top. This is what I use for standard pve currently. As I stated previously. after a little while ago looking at revenant builds on raids, this one I made is very close to that one, with couple trait differences on the dps/support build. I also use sword/shield and staff. which differs from that ones sword/axe and different runes/sigils.

But again this is besides the point. The purpose of this post was the difficulty for newcomers to get in, far more difficult and restrictive than it should be for someone desiring to enjoy new content.

Tweaking a build to fit a raid has never been the issue. It’sthe attitude of the people asking it, and the demands, I’d much prefer being asked to fit a specific role and be given the freedom to do it my own way, need more dps? Sure no problem, just don’t tell me specific builds and weapons to switch to to reach that end, it won’t work.
Need more tanking? Sure I got it, will change to be more natural. It’s the meta mindset and the mindset of “do it this way or get out” is the problem I see.

LegACy.1296:

Phoenix.1370:

Kind of. I want to experience and figure out what works for me, and the role thats required of me, again what others think is optimal may not be optimal for me. I can’t simply be a close range fighter for ages then simply switch to range/support and be expected to perform the best I lack the experience with those skill sets and the mindset. And due to the barriers people have placed and experience required no one including myself can achieve that experience. They are expected to just load up and perform amazing.

In gw1 I sucked as a monk even with the best builds and suggested builds because I could never get into the mindset and lacked the experienced required to run the build efficiently. Same problem here. If you demand someone use a build they have no experience with or fit a role they have no experience with you will get nowhere and they will be just as big as a problem as they were previously.

Now, if only you communicated it as clear as this previously XD

If you’re strictly talking about roles though… It’s not that different from other PvE though. What particular class style do you like? If you like melee DPS then Guardian, Warrior, and Revenant is for you. If you like ranged or AoE DPS go Elementalist. If you like doing condition DPS then necromancer is for your. If you like buffing and tanking, Chronomancer is for you. And if you like healing, Druid is for you.

Then again, I’m still not sure. In your head, what’s the ideal way to do raid?

EDIT:
Also, “They are expected to just load up and perform amazing.”
Well… you’re expected to learn how to play your class OUTSIDE the raid since you can do it outside as well. Like, I only recently play condi necro and I alreayd memorized the skill rotation before jumping to raid as necro =x

This is just a small part, it’s the community/attitude towards newcomers that I have the bigger problem with. Which causes the friction.

Revenant is my primary and I go for more dps than anything. I don’t know what the ideal way to do raids is because I haven’t had the experience of a raid yet due to the attitudes and restrictions of others.

Again what may be optimal for one person may not be optimal for others. The attitude seems to be “play this way with this proffesion or not at all” Not given a valid reason why or explained why or even the chance to EXPERIENCE why, all newcomers have is the demands of “elites” with toxic attitudes. Which is why it is unfriendly to newcomers.

LegACy.1296:

Ah… I think I see what you want.

Basically you want to be able to experience raid and figure out what build and tactics are best for a boss fight instead of being told what to do. Understandable, figuring out tactics is part of what makes raid enjoyable as well.

Well, if that’s what you want, then you’re right, it is far too late for newcomers to try to figure out what tactics to use. Sorry, but the only time you can get to plan out tactics is probably on during the first week after a raid wing’s release. After that point, most obvious tactics have been figured out and people are expecting others to just follow that tactic. Like, you’re not expecting to figure out tactic again on CoF, right?

Kind of. I want to experience and figure out what works for me, and the role thats required of me, again what others think is optimal may not be optimal for me. I can’t simply be a close range fighter for ages then simply switch to range/support and be expected to perform the best I lack the experience with those skill sets and the mindset. And due to the barriers people have placed and experience required no one including myself can achieve that experience. They are expected to just load up and perform amazing.

In gw1 I sucked as a monk even with the best builds and suggested builds because I could never get into the mindset and lacked the experienced required to run the build efficiently. Same problem here. If you demand someone use a build they have no experience with or fit a role they have no experience with you will get nowhere and they will be just as big as a problem as they were previously.

I do get it, people have figured out what on paper works and what for some works, for others like myself it won’t work and will be a bigger weak link trying to fit a roll they cannot fit even with a proffesion they are most used to and have the most suitable gear towards.

I’m choosing to ignore toxic posts by toxic people clearly just wanting to assault me for refusing to be a meta drone instead of addressing the topic at hand.

Rashy.4165

Not everyone has ascended, not easiest thing to get the specific ones, I happen to be lucky and got a decent few zerker ones for my rev along with weapons for him
Kinda unrealistic to some who do not have luck or pvp or has not tried fractals/raids before as they are usually more common from there apart from dung specific ones.

Again, this is circular. You need experience to get in, to get in your need experience. I have no such experience as I have yet to find a group to even make a first attempt. Hardly positive or helpful from community. “Oh sure, you can join in, as long as you have tried before”…not tried? SOL

The barriers I have listed are from around 15 or so groups I’ve attempted to join/contact all without sucess all requiring unrealistic requirments. Either this content you need to get REALLYlucky with or be part of an already helpful guild.

What is optimal to one person may not be optimal to another. Playing with a build or weapon you are unfamiliar with and cannot perform up to standard with even if they are the most best thing in the world, will be detrimental to the team and be counter productive.
I cannot even get in to try out the content in order to make correct adjustments to perform better due to the barriers I’ve experienced, I have no idea if the “meta” will be the best for me, I have a feeling it won’t. The barriers prevent me from trying/adapting or learning.

The Zealous Templar.3861:

Phoenix.1370:

Coconut.7082:

Phoenix.1370:

Coconut.7082:

Phoenix.1370:

It seems this thread is completly derailing and turning into “what you are doing wrong” THIS ISN’T ABOUT ME this isn’t about me specifically and my builds, again I’d post on revenant forum to discuss if it was.

Please get back on topic.

This topic was about the difficulty of newcomers getting into it, regardless of builds.

There is too many barriers and too few support for newcomers getting in, this has been my experience for atleast a week and a half now.

And the attitude such as this as hostile to newcomers. This may not be the experience of all, but it certainly has me. Requirments for most entry level is ridiculous and unrealistic and the few training guilds are very hostile/toxic in their attitudes. This has been my experience. That is all.

BUT THIS IS ABOUT YOU, you opened this thread!
You feel that there are barriers, but the reasons you showed in this thread are not! That’s why people are trying to show you why you might be feeling those “barriers”, but you refuse to listen.
Your attitude is bad, That is all.

This thread is about my experience and the experience of others attempting this content. You clearly lack the understanding of that.

Your experience is caused by your attitude. You clearly lack the understanding of that.

My experience is caused by the attitude of others. You don’t see it because you seem to be one of those “others”

In most cases where build is an issue it’s “my way or the highway” which is hardly productive.

The attitude I seem to see and the theme seems to be “teach what to think, not how to think” when the opposite should be true.

Feel free to make your own squad and impose whatever rules you want. If too scared, deal with other people’s rules. Simple really.

Sigh, again more toxic attitude. Prime example of what is wrong. “My way or the highway” attitude when it comes to certain things.

Your way of thinking is part of the problem I see. unfriendly community when it comes to raids, one mind thinking and inability to teach how to think not what to think. Deviate and be kicked or rejected. Team play is important and can still be achived and fill a role without being a mindless drone simply grinding content for purpose of win.

Winespring Brother.2970:

Raids are not impossible for newcomers. I joined a raiding guild about 3 weeks ago that has both NA and EU training runs and moderate requirements to join and learn: no experience required, exotic gear minimum (and not even necessary to have fully meta gear as long as it is close) and the right build for your profession. I learned my role and got 2 different boss kills in my first 2 weeks of being in the guild. So if they would accept a newcomer with no kills previously, I would hardly call them “elitist” (not to mention that most of the other players had no kills previously either), and I would hardly say raids are impossible for newcomers.

Whether it is fun or not is up to you. For me, following the meta approach was not a problem, since it was actually fun to try different builds and tactics that I never used before, and achieving the kills finally made it worthwhile.

“right build for your profession” and “as long as it’s close” while those do seem lesser burdens, I still see few and far betweens and cannot for the life of me find a guild/group in the forums that do teach without these requirments and demand for complete meta clone. I DO understand why people think it’s necessary but I do not. And feel that people can perform up to standard without, assuming their build can be demonstrated to perform. The problem is, the mindset of those who lead do not give that chance, if you deviate from meta you are rejected.

Coconut.7082:

Phoenix.1370:

Coconut.7082:

Phoenix.1370:

It seems this thread is completly derailing and turning into “what you are doing wrong” THIS ISN’T ABOUT ME this isn’t about me specifically and my builds, again I’d post on revenant forum to discuss if it was.

Please get back on topic.

This topic was about the difficulty of newcomers getting into it, regardless of builds.

There is too many barriers and too few support for newcomers getting in, this has been my experience for atleast a week and a half now.

And the attitude such as this as hostile to newcomers. This may not be the experience of all, but it certainly has me. Requirments for most entry level is ridiculous and unrealistic and the few training guilds are very hostile/toxic in their attitudes. This has been my experience. That is all.

BUT THIS IS ABOUT YOU, you opened this thread!
You feel that there are barriers, but the reasons you showed in this thread are not! That’s why people are trying to show you why you might be feeling those “barriers”, but you refuse to listen.
Your attitude is bad, That is all.

This thread is about my experience and the experience of others attempting this content. You clearly lack the understanding of that.

Your experience is caused by your attitude. You clearly lack the understanding of that.

My experience is caused by the attitude of others. You don’t see it because you seem to be one of those “others”

In most cases where build is an issue it’s “my way or the highway” which is hardly productive.

The attitude I seem to see and the theme seems to be “teach what to think, not how to think” when the opposite should be true.

LegACy.1296:

Look, I’m on EU, I opened the LFG tab, and this is what I see.
Why don’t you give the circled one a try

First I’ve ever seen in about a week and a half of anything even close to that. Which is my point, geting into it is difficult for newcomers and opportunities are few and far between.

Coconut.7082:

Phoenix.1370:

It seems this thread is completly derailing and turning into “what you are doing wrong” THIS ISN’T ABOUT ME this isn’t about me specifically and my builds, again I’d post on revenant forum to discuss if it was.

Please get back on topic.

This topic was about the difficulty of newcomers getting into it, regardless of builds.

There is too many barriers and too few support for newcomers getting in, this has been my experience for atleast a week and a half now.

And the attitude such as this as hostile to newcomers. This may not be the experience of all, but it certainly has me. Requirments for most entry level is ridiculous and unrealistic and the few training guilds are very hostile/toxic in their attitudes. This has been my experience. That is all.

BUT THIS IS ABOUT YOU, you opened this thread!
You feel that there are barriers, but the reasons you showed in this thread are not! That’s why people are trying to show you why you might be feeling those “barriers”, but you refuse to listen.
Your attitude is bad, That is all.

This thread is about my experience and the experience of others attempting this content. You clearly lack the understanding of that.

OnizukaBR.8537:

We discussing your build, because its the reason you find this “barrier” to join a raid group. If you used the meta one, you would have already killed VG and never created this topic.
So its impossible to discuss your barrier without relationating it with your build.
Newcomers with meta build no barrier or any issue.
Newcomers with snowflake build = barrier.

Again THIS ISN’T ABOUT ME and my build or lack of desire to be a mindless drone is not the ONLY issue, is that so difficult to understand?

The issue is BUILD and VG requirments ASCENDED FULL and EXPERIENCE REQUIRED and ELITIST attitude etc.

All these are barriers I have run into, NOT ONLY MY BLOODY BUILD.

Please, if you insist on sticking on my build only further I will simply dismiss you as you are clearly not reading. Adaptation is not an issue, ability to change my builds is not an issue. I just refuse to be a mindless clone playing in a way that isn’t fun. I’d find a way to play in a way I enjoy while still fitting a roll. It’s elitist attitudes like I’m seeing that is the issue.

Hypairion.9210:

Phoenix.1370:

OnizukaBR.8537:

Well if you are playing revenant you have a really important job in VG, that is keep face of nature 100% of the time, so the chrono can have 100% boon duration to tank. Then if you use shiro and waste your resource bar, you cant maintain facet so you are hurting your party.
Your other job is help with breakbar, so if you like using shield for example because its fun,then you are again just hurting your team, as there is 0 reason for you to use both of shield skills.
If your stats that you dont mention have Toughness, again you are making the chrono kitten himself because now he needs to equip even more toughness to hold aggro.
So its not a matter of build but a matter of you dont want to play the role that is needed, and want to everyone change their build so they can afford 1 revenant that want play his selfish way.

Sigh you don’t understand a thing it seems. I’m not explaining myself further as I have repeated myself MANY times now. I ain’t getting through to you. Everything you said there is completely irrelevant.

What is sure if that with the attitude you’re showing to us, I wouldn’t want you in my training session. Willingness to adapt and good attitude are what matter in a training session, and so far you’ve just shown us the contrary…

Exactly my point. Which is why I will not respond to you any longer as you clearly did not read a word I said.

It seems this thread is completly derailing and turning into “what you are doing wrong” THIS ISN’T ABOUT ME this isn’t about me specifically and my builds, again I’d post on revenant forum to discuss if it was.

Please get back on topic.

This topic was about the difficulty of newcomers getting into it, regardless of builds.

There is too many barriers and too few support for newcomers getting in, this has been my experience for atleast a week and a half now.

And the attitude such as this as hostile to newcomers. This may not be the experience of all, but it certainly has me. Requirments for most entry level is ridiculous and unrealistic and the few training guilds are very hostile/toxic in their attitudes. This has been my experience. That is all.

OnizukaBR.8537:

Well if you are playing revenant you have a really important job in VG, that is keep face of nature 100% of the time, so the chrono can have 100% boon duration to tank. Then if you use shiro and waste your resource bar, you cant maintain facet so you are hurting your party.
Your other job is help with breakbar, so if you like using shield for example because its fun,then you are again just hurting your team, as there is 0 reason for you to use both of shield skills.
If your stats that you dont mention have Toughness, again you are making the chrono kitten himself because now he needs to equip even more toughness to hold aggro.
So its not a matter of build but a matter of you dont want to play the role that is needed, and want to everyone change their build so they can afford 1 revenant that want play his selfish way.

Sigh you don’t understand a thing it seems. I’m not explaining myself further as I have repeated myself MANY times now. I ain’t getting through to you. Everything you said there is completely irrelevant.

Rashy.4165:

Phoenix.1370:

Why should that be a problem?

People have spent months experimenting with compositions and builds to discover the optimal playstyle (in the most general case). The builds have variations for different encounters, but beyond that, the optimal setup has been established.

The optimal builds and compositions are about finding the right balance of high damage and utility, and maximizing the amount of party wide boons and buffs.

You coming in and saying “my non-meta build is way better than yours” is a slap in the face to all of that effort, and considering you don’t have much raiding experience with actual encounters (by the sounds of it), you don’t know the justification behind why certain skill and trait choices are made.

Since this came up in a previous thread, here’s my experience as a fairly latecomer to raiding:

I didn’t PUG, I sought out raid guilds from the get-go (I knew it would be futile to attempt to PUG). The first guild I joined was with some friends, but they didn’t invite me into their group due to lack of experience. One jokingly told me to “gitgud”. The next guild I joined was more willing to take me on learning raids (effectively PUGs formed within the guild – 4-5 experienced players, rest inexperienced). Two weeks of that, and the guild that originally didn’t invite me to raids? They started inviting me to their raid groups, and consider me as part of their static group now, even going as far as to grab me quickly before any other group does.
And it kinda snowballed from there. Currently have three potential statics to raid with.
I occasionally PUGed at reset, but wasn’t asked for LIs. We cleared SV in 45 minutes during one of those runs (reset is usually the best time to find good PUGs). At the time I PUGed, I had 33 LI and had a Matthias kill.

I’d say you got lucky, I have not had that experience, just complete rejection from everyone I’ve attempted to contact.

Again, its not saying mine are “better” its saying I’m more comfortable using my own and thus I perform better because I feel more at ease and comfort using things I’m familiar with. And experience in the build USUALLY lets me outperform the average joe using a copy/paste build and little to no experience.

Sure the build I currently use on some proffesions might not work as well in raids, and in that instance I’d take what I’d learned in the death and work on a new build that fits the gaps where I was lacking. The problem is I cannot do that when I cannot get a foot in the door to try.

LegACy.1296:

Okay…

1. No, it’s not impossible for a newcomer. I’ve read stories about people who just started raiding every time. And there are teaching runs everywhere, especially if you’re playing on NA. They are the perfect entry point for newcomers. And if they require killproof and stuff, they’re probably not teaching runs.

2. Yes, some (most?) teaching guild will require meta build. But cloning the meta build isn’t impossible for newcomer

I am EU which makes it more restrictive. I am not abandoning my friends and others I play with simply to make raids easier.

Funny considering they state specifically they are teaching guilds for newcomers to raids yet still list it as requirments.

I wouldn’t care if cloning a meta build was free. I wouldn’t do it simply because they in most cases are not fun to me. Again you seem to miss my point.

Enko.6123

discussion of my own builds is not the purpose of this thread, it’s not even really about me specifically, the whole point is the community around raids and the lack of support/incentive for newer people wanting to join in.

If I wanted advice on builds I would go to the correct forum and post something there on it. Semi dismissing it because it is kinda off topic. However while taking a very quick look online the build im currently using is very similar to the raid “meta” for revenant which is dps/support some trait differences and I use shiro more than dwarf. This I built myself without even looking up this “meta”.

I agree, I’m outperforming players, which isn’t that a good thing? If a build I’m using is outperforming someone next to me in a raid who is running of meta, then surely this isn’t a problem?

Then I haven’t seen your teaching post. Everyone I’ve ran into and contacted have ridiculous and unrealistic requirments for a newcomer to it.

AnariiUK.7409

I get that. I don’t think I’ve seen a single “teaching” not even have Vale Guardian kill as a requirment for joining..Isn’t that counter productive for someone completely new? Kinda like going to college but to get into your first class you need a degree in that specific field.

I get that, I’ve always used my own, and I’ve tweaked over the years to adapt to changes. The problem is like I said before, some people mindlessly copy/paste meta and perform subpar because they lack understanding of their chosen proffesion.
I am far from perfect but I atleast grasp an understanding of synergy to make a viable build to fit a situation without meta and using weapons and utilities I do actually enjoy, I play revenant primary which makes utilities/elites kinda meaningless for the most part but still.
The problem is you CAN’T communicate that to raid leaders because of elitist attitudes and immediate dismissal if you do not have a clone of meta. THAT is my problem. The attitude and the community around raids makes that difficult.

I get that, which is part of the problem, too few willing to train because of very little incentive to do so and too many people in my shoes trying to get in. Which is my whole point.

Hypairion.9210

I’m not demanding you trust me or believe me. I honestly don’t care on that front.

The whole point of this thread is discussions on why raids are difficult for new/latecomers to get into, and very little incentive to be included in along with a huge gap and barriers people like me have to get past to even start. Which isn’t helped by elitist attitudes and very little incentive for newcomers to be included in groups.

Tornupto.2304:

Phoenix.1370:

I have no issue with fluidity in my builds I have many I’ve grown to feel comfortable with to take on various requirments. I just refuse to be a complete clone but still this isn’t good enough. If more of something else is needed I have frequently expressed fluidity in changing things up a bit but with my own flair not just copy/paste an exact one online but this for pretty much everyone is not good enough.

One thing: If you refuse to play a build just because it is listed as a good build somewhere is the opposite of knowing your class perfectly. I don’t bother to look on websites for builds either, but if i do to compare my build with those online, they are mostly 100% identical because that build is the best in that situation. That still does not mean that I’m a clone or sth. like that. If you choose a build by your own it is not bad in every case, but if it differes in many points from the required, you may not have understood what is needed in that situation.

You COMPLETELY missed the point of why I don’t use them.
I don’t use them because they are not fun. I don’t refuse to be some sort of gw2 hipster. To me they are not fun to use, specific weapons are not fun to use, specific elites or utilities I dislike using and are no fun to me.

I understand my builds and in a lot of cases it’s the same, maybe slight variations. Necro for example, I was using a variation of a well build for pvp I created myself before it was even up on any meta websites. it was mostly identical, again I do understand my proffesions. I just like using things that are fun to me. if a build or weapon set or utilities are not fun I am not going to use them. It would be negative on my gaming experience.

OnizukaBR.8537:

Your build MAY BE viable but I’m 100% sure that your build dont out perform meta build, there are a lot of experienced guilds pushing for world records on clear times, and if your build outperformed metas they would be using it ( dont think nobody never tried it, its not like there is infinite builds ).
And if your wrong ( you never cleared a raid with your build so you cant give any proof ) you will waste hours of 9 other people. So you are the one being selfish with this attitude, there is nothing wrong with off-meta builds if you form your own party with 9 other people that want to try new builds.
But for people that want to clear the raids before next reset (everyone has limited playtime), meta builds is the better way to ensure it.
So you have two options, make your own group ( and you may find that you are wrong after wiping for hours with no sucess) or just change your build.
But if your build dont do enough damage to clear a raid boss, please dont make a post after asking for nerfs because raids are too hard.

I say that I outperform meta because I understand my build more and my proffesion more. In my experience especially in pvp, those that just copy/paste metas majority of the time they have no clue how to properly use them and no experience with the proffesion and thus are easy to kill. What matters is the skill of the individual using the build, not usually the build itself. It helps but not essential in my experience. Meta is “best” on paper, but in the hands of an amateur it’s no better than anything else.

Sure I’ve not tried but in my experience with every other content and world meta events and content and dungeons and fractals I’ve yet to run into an issue where my builds don’t perform up to standard or can’t keep up with others in my groups.

I have no issue with challenging content, and would never ask for a nerf. I enjoy challenging things and if I don’t happen to be performing well I adapt. I’ve played many many games that are challenging and placed limitations on myself to make it moreso and I don’t complain. Again I do understand where people do come from in wanting to do content with the least amount speedbumps. My only issue is the attitudes I’ve ran into of people running this content and the little support there is for new people to get into it.

The Zealous Templar.3861:

There’s a decent amount of people in your shoes. Try creating a non-rep guild to find like minded people and go try the raids together, great tactics are already made available to you via websites and videos if you choose to use them, or if you want an authentic experience try to figure them out yourself like many experienced raiders did.

Expecting someone to teach you for no other incentive is a bit too optimistic, the experienced raiders also play this game for fun and teaching inexperienced people all the time, many of whom will not adapt or listen in order to improve, isn’t most people’s idea of fun. I started late (March) and sought out the rare players who were charitable enough to teach me. Importantly I understood that they were actively taking a hit to their entertainment a lot of the time just to help me, I was grateful rather than advocating my birth-right forcing them to teach all the time.

The main problem is that there are far fewer than 1 in 10 leaders who are somewhat new to raiding. Instead of being proactive and trying to lead they more commonly whine on forums.

I don’t expect anything. Where have I stated that I do? My issue is the attitude people have developed over raids. Mostly being elitist. I understand that the few that do teach do so with little to gain. my issue is there is too few and too big a gap for newcomers to get in, that provides a problem that the community and the content have created.

Too steep a mountain for newcomers to be able to join in and too little incentive or reason to include them. That is what should be fixed, either with fixing something or making it more appealing/rewarding to include newcomers.

I am not “whining” on forums. I am stating an issue I have experienced with content in the game. and my experience with people and community in this. Sure I could do it myself, and chances are I will, it still does not change the fact that some other people who will come after me will run into the same barriers and elitist attitudes.

Shouldn’t something that is clearly detrimental to some players being able to experience content be fixed?

AnariiUK.7409.

I’ve been met with nothing but dissapointment, hell one of them even had requirment of eternal title/vale guardian kill to even get in. How the hell is that correct?

I have no issue with fluidity in my builds I have many I’ve grown to feel comfortable with to take on various requirments. I just refuse to be a complete clone but still this isn’t good enough. If more of something else is needed I have frequently expressed fluidity in changing things up a bit but with my own flair not just copy/paste an exact one online but this for pretty much everyone is not good enough.

I get that it’s challenging content and I have no difficulty with challenging content. PvE is for the most part easy as hell and I rarely die. The problem is people exclude you without even giving you the chance to prove it.

Nokaru.7831-“small sacrifice” to me using someone elses build and skills and weapons I do not enjoy is a sacrifice too big. I cannot play a game someone elses way. Fluidity in tweaking my builds isn’t the problem as I have stated it’s the elitist attitude of you must be a complete copy of a meta build or you don’t get included.

I have no problem switching things up to fit a certain role, I do have a problem with being expected to copy/paste one from online.

Nana.9512-
You can fit a roll without using specifically everything. I’ve done it numerous times, dungeons/fractals/pvp all these I’ve had no issue fitting new rolls using my own flair and again I usually outperform meta because I’m more comfortable using my own stuff and have greater understanding. I happen to work very well in groups because I listen and can be fluid, I lose a lot when I copy/paste someone else, I perform subpar. The problem is the attitude others have taken on.

Dhorghar.5249
That attitude is the problem. I don’t have time to play 24/7 I have rl stuff to do and get on with, when raids were introduced I was between moving houses and between jobs. People like me missed the boat due to unexpected circumstances and due to issues of not our cause we are now excluded. It’s not that I wasn’t “bothered”

I understand the few that want similar experienced players. My issue is the lack of community dedicated to helping newcomers come in, instead it’s nothing but elitists rejecting people and people being excluded without a way to get their foot in the door.

I see you are defending raids, I assume your stance would be different in my shoes if you were forced to miss the boat and now cannot get in.
My attitude is fine, as I have stated I have no issue with changing builds up to meet a certain requirment. I state this to many who apparently take on newcomers but again and again this isn’t enough for them.

Keksmuffin.1450:

Phoenix.1370:

I like to play my own way and dislike being nothing but a meta clone, and in most cases my own playstyle and builds outperform the meta because I understand my proffesions more than the average joe who just copy/pastes a build and thinks they are good to go.

I think I found your problem :<

Why should that be a problem? I’ve never had a single problem running my own builds in ANY other content and I shouldn’t have to remove the fun aspect of the game in order to play some content I have paid for. This is the problem with the attitude of people who raid.

I do not enjoy being a mindless meta drone using builds and skills I do not enjoy why should anyone be forced to play a way they don’t enjoy just to be included if they can demonstrate they can perform up to standard without?

To me that is a very toxic attitude and demonstrates a terrible view on community and gaming. “play our way or you don’t get to play at all” It is a shame raids have taken to being that.

The purpose of this thread is to discuss the difficulty for newcomers or like me latercomers who never hopped aboard the boat at launch to get into raids.
I’ve played this game since launch, and pre-ordered for the headstart, done pretty much everything once and had no issue getting into them. Raids on the other hand are different story…

A few days ago I decided to try to get into raids to try some content I have not experienced yet and I seem to have been met with nothing but walls and barriers and a toxic mindset of a section of the community. I do not own full ascended for every character and have various pieces on maybe 2/9 of my characters which is a barrier for some.

Again and again I’ve been met with LFG’s and forum threads and groups that require raid experience or you get kicked. To get in you need experience, to get experience you need to get in. This is true for even some “teaching” guilds. I like to play my own way and dislike being nothing but a meta clone, and in most cases my own playstyle and builds outperform the meta because I understand my proffesions more than the average joe who just copy/pastes a build and thinks they are good to go.

I don’t know about anyone elses experience trying to get into this but mine has been met with nothing but disappointment and an elitist attitude who is unfriendly to newcomers to this content or those who like to play the game for fun instead of “you must play this way or gtfo”

Thoughts on this? Or experiences of similar people in my situation?