Guild Wars 2

Sladeakakevin.4162:

I know how to get gear, but I’m wondering if it supposed to be this frustrating.

Yes, apparently that part is working as intended. The fun part is getting up to the next level of gear only to discover that it’s just as/more hideous than what you were already wearing. Unless you love tattered trenchcoats, that is.

I used to hate that map but I’ve learned to love Capricorn/The Ruins. I switch to a Bunker build underwater, camp it, & kill anyone who tries to take it from me. It’s rather fun.

Railing against it & constantly quitting when we got to the Capricorn map wasn’t accomplishing anything, plus, I hate running around that map with a passion. So now I just float there, watch Naruto Shippuden on the other computer, kill any interlopers that bother me, & we win. It’s win.

Sezu.8564:

I think the deeper issue here isn’t the point system and how points are awarded. The problem lies in the fact that human beings are selfish. If we just took the team point totals and evenly distributed the points 5-ways, we’d see a much more cooperative, coordinated team effort.

Oh yeah, that would work, because it’ll be so much easier to change human nature than it would be to change the point system. I’m certain that that would NOT result in more & more AFKers, since they’d be able to get a share of the total points from the match for standing around & doing nothing.

/sarcasm

Sorry, but that makes no sense & isn’t really a viable solution, because unfortunately, as wonderful as that concept may sound on paper in some other Bizarro universe, it wouldn’t work here, it would get abused to the Nth power. AFKing was such a huge problem in Rift (before they changed the mechanic) because people could get rewards from matches for doing absolutely nothing.

Counting on everyone doing what they should do out of the fluffy snuggly goodness of their hearts? Not gonna happen.

To the OP: Loved loved LOVED AoC’s PvP. There was lots of fail about that game but (aside from some broken abilities) the PvP was excellent, most fun I’ve had PvPing in any MMO ever. Ahh, the epic battles…

Also agree with the need for diminishing returns on CC, being chain-CCed while you slowly die is superfrustrating. My personal favorite is knockback, that particular one makes my eye twitch.

milo.6942:

I just shake my head slowly and sigh when these threads come up. It’s like people have no idea what teamplay is or how to achieve it. Or better yet, they don’t like the idea of team play.

These 2v1 scenarios people cry about are just “I’ve bursted 1 person with my glass cannon why doesn’t he die, now his teammate res him this is crap!” Which is ironic, because that’s one of the reasons we have downed state.

I especially like this one: “Can’t remember how often I died because I took tons of dmg just while casting the animation” as if the long activation time had nothing whatever to do with giving the enemy team a chance to stop you.

edit: that doesn’t take away from more nuanced criticism such as how long it’s appropriate to keep an enemy in downed state, which is in my opinion a much better discussion to be having.

Think you’re making a few assumptions here, we’re not all glass cannon builds wanting to chain-own whole teams, just not have the guy I just killed pop up & kill me because his downed state is awesome (while yeah, I AM jealous that mine really isn’t, although I have killed quite a few people throwing rocks, lol), or have to STILL be fighting the player I defeated while engaging other players because I’m not in the position to finish him, then have him pop back up.

Case in point, I attack a point where there’s a player of the opposing team, after a nice protracted 1v1, I kill them, then get attacked by another member of their team. As I’m engaging the 2nd enemy, the first one’s pewpewing me all to heck so it’s a 1v1.5 or whatever, then the 1st guy pops up, now its a 1v2 & POW! I’m dead. Where MY teammates were, who-the-heck knows, but I’m not comprehending how me “not understanding the idea of team play” was the issue there.

& no, I didn’t/don’t have the tools to insta-finish him in that build, Elixir S can shrink me & then my finisher is uninterruptible but I don’t like the ability besides that, so it’s not specced in. & his downed state is pretty annoying so, technically, I’m fighting a new enemy AND the guy that I just defeated (thinking: Umm, he’s dead, I just killed him, WHY is he still killing me?). NOT fun.

No offense, but it seems like every time someone posts what may be a legitimate gripe here, someone else pops in with LRN2PLAI NOOB! or the equivalent. No, every complaint isn’t worthwhile, but everyone who presents one isn’t automatically a whiny moron either.

Asmodean.5820:

Ashanor.5319:

I think the point system is fine other than not rewarding defense. There needs to be bonuses for guarding a point. Zerging is encouraged by map design, not points.

I noticed a new trend lately. I got hunted by 3+ guys across the whole map until they finally got me and killed me. Sure, I annoyed them with dots but that doesn’t explain their behaviour. In my opinion it just shows that people are grinding points by just ignoring objectives (except they can conquer them easily for more points) and going.

Had the same thing happen to me this morning, a group chased me past EVERYTHING, objectives, Svanir, JUST to kill me. Guess I had been lucky & hadn’t been running into the Group Zerg teams but saw a few this morning, just a mass of people going from point-to-point in groups just slaughtering everything. Terrible strategy but it worked twice, believe it or not.

The system definitely needs some work. On the Capricorn map, I always bite the bullet, take one for the team & hold the Ruins to help us win. Sometimes I get decent points depending on how insistent the opposing team is on trying to take it from me (got 7 kills this morning that way), but most times I seal away the victory by holding/retaking it for the entire match & get very little to show for it, which sucks.

I will also ‘suicide’ a point, as in rush it when I know I can’t take it or sit there as they’re coming just to keep them from capping it, won some matches that way, but most don’t, they’ll cap & just all run off to cap another, or let them neutralize it JUST so they can get more points for taking it back. That’s terrible gameplay for this mode, but until they change it, that type of behavior will just continue.

I also agree that upping the points for winning may convince players who just want kills to actually TRY to win the match rather than just camping & ganking the whole time without regard for the score, which I see happen a LOT. Giving the losing team some points for just staying til the end, I think, would cause fewer players to just give up & leave when they see that they can’t win.

Yeah, everyone can play how they want, but they should just have Deathmatches for players who just want to wantonly randomly kill & leave the other modes for those of us who actually give a kitten about victory.

Ashes.6418:

If you’re not specced for condition, don’t bother with the second pistol. Shield and Off-Hand pistols are for two completely different play styles, don’t compare them, and certainly don’t give the Off-Hand pistol a bad name by slandering it when you’re not specced correctly to use it.

That’s like me using my condition build saying the Rifle is weak because I don’t have enough Power and Precision to make full use of it, and the Rifle doesn’t have the conditions to make use of the 1423 condition damage I have.

^This. I run dual pistols in sPvP/tPvP & do very VERY well with it. Could just be the players but I usually own pistol/shield or kit users. Rifle is annoying because of the cc & if they’re built for megaburst, I’m screwed, but, specced/played properly, dual pistol fits can be awesome.

Yeah, it’s a LOT more work than just whipping out the flamethrower or chucking bombs but they rarely, if ever, come anywhere near my effectiveness, maybe because they’re on-trick ponies. Honestly, I think a lot of the cookie cutter/FotM Engi builds are overrated, & I really enjoy doing so well without using them.

I’ve had people giggle outloud when they see me running around with 2 pistols, until I top the board for the match & they ask how many kills I had/what build I am/how I killed them so fast. Nobody laughs then.

Halseybr.9403:

just pick what feels most natural to you.

^This. I wouldn’t trade my dual pistols Engi for ANYTHING &, believe it or not, I do very well with it for a non-FotM build/class. Pick what suits YOUR strengths & playstyle. This week’s OP class/cookie cutter build may not be fun/suit you. Experiment & have fun.

Don’t want to be a downer too, & I do want to thank you for collecting that data, but:
1) Off-hand, without actually noting all the data, what I see in sPvP is much MUCH different.
2) It’s difficult to make a determination of how effective each class is without knowing more about the specifics of the situation, like the player’s motivation (to win or just kill stuff), their skill, & what map they were on. &
3) This is ONE situation where players can’t just blow off sPvP data & refer you to tourneys.

As far as #1, I see Mesmers & Guardians dominate the top of the boards, along with some very good Thieves, but that could just be what I see during MY daily play period (4-7am EST). & individual scores that I see are MUCH higher (depending on the map, as in, because of the lay-out Capricorn skills tend to be lower), usually low-200’s-to-low-300’s (excluding the ridiculous 3-400 pt expert trebuchet camper scores). In 3 hours of sPvP play this morning, only a couple of crappy Capricorn matches ended with all players scoring in the 100’s. & I rarely see very many other Engis (the class I play), lots of times, I’m the ONLY Engi in the match, which is a shame, because I think, played well, it’s a grossly underestimated class which is good at MUCH more than cc/bunkering.

On to #2, the map matters because, on the Khylo map, bunker builds, like Necro, Engi, tend to camp the trebuchet, so their scores are higher there, & the cramped, crowded map lends itself to ganking, since players can hide &/or drop down on other players, so I find myself getting blindsided more often there. On the Foefire map you can generally see people/the zerg coming, & it’s easier to avoid, so you can cap points to your heart’s content since it’s easier to do, driving the scores there up.

On the Capricorn map, since I despise it, I just camp the Ruins & kill whoever comes there, so my scores tend to be lower. I find other Engis & Necros doing the same thing, not much Glory but you don’t have to traipse all over that crappy map & can still help your team win.

Also, it depends not just on the skill of the player but WHAT they’re there for. Often, PW/HS Thieves, shortbow Rangers & 1B Warriors don’t give a kitten about their score, they’re JUST there to slaughter other players, they’ll run past objectives/easy points to chase someone, so yeah, they come up at the bottom.

OR, as someone mentioned earlier, noobs gravitate towards the easier classes so that they can be more successful with less skill, so you run into more totally fail Thieves, Warriors, Mesmers than anything else.

& some players just know how to “game” the sPvP system for maximum Glory, which actually ISN’T via ‘running with the zerg’, in my experience, it’s avoiding it entirely, sniping, taking advantage of the NPC’s, etc, so they always seem to come out on top at the end of the match, which is what I do with my Engi. I run a dual pistols Alchemist build & usually get low double-digit kills & top my team & the match in Glory by staying out of range of the melees, scavenging kills, & being an annoying pain to kill due to the Engi’s Bag of Tricks, which no, isn’t all about turrets.

Not to stereotype other Classes but a being an Engineer who’s not just running bomb, elixir or flamethrower kits/squatting on a point takes a lot of planning & forethought to play successfully, so, like some Necros, when you DO see one, they tend to be pretty decent, just because they/we HAVE to be to survive. Yeah, I run into my fair share of awful ones too but I know a few really really good ones

& for #3, from what I’ve seen, maybe not as much on PuG teams but a lot of premade tourney teams are SO static as far as their make-up, with a certain amount of Guardians, a Necro, an Engi, a Thief or 2, etc, that what you find match to match sometimes rarely changes. So finding out what people are casually playing in sPvP is more interesting/pertinent to me than the stale 2 this-1 of these-2 of those=OP format that tPvP teams I’ve seen often seem to consist of.

TL;DR: You can’t read too much into that data, there are too many variables. As someone said, maybe he was running with/into some really good Necros & a lot of fail noob Thieves, etc.

My .02.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/55030-pvp-mystic-forge-recipes/page__hl__%20pvp%20%20crafting

There, that should help. Buy chests with your Glory, salvage what you can’t use, use those mats to make items. To see what you want to make BEFORE you make it, preview items in your PvP Locker.

Check what tier you’re on, the current PvP Achievement system is rather, at best, odd, at worst, dumb. It may appear that the Title is unlocked, when actually you’ve just advanced to the final tier needed for that Title.

1: Mouse-over the bar in question to see what tier you’re on, unless it says 6/6, you can’t select that Title yet because all of the requirements are not met.

2: Unless the bar is completely full, as in solid, no gaps at the end, you can’t use the Title yet either.

If it IS available for use, you’ll be able to select it from the drop-down box on the top-left of the screen. Like Genius, the Title I’m going for, I’m pretty sure that it’s 200 wins.

They need some way to either show what tier you’re on or sub-titles or something. Not being able to display your stats OR see the stats of others is a REAL downer, IMO anyway.

Hope that helps, good luck!

Go to your PvP Locker, find a sword that you want to make (that you CAN at your PvP Rank, as in Rabbit, Deer, Dolyak, etc), take the crap that you get from the Glory chests, buy PvP Salvage kits & salvage the items you get that you don’t want, Go to the Guild Wars 2 Guru site (Google is your friend!) & do a search for PvP Mystic Forge Recipes, that’s ALL you need.

I made all my gear, weapons, even Glory boosters & dyes, out of junk from chests that I didn’t want/couldn’t use so I salvaged it. You already know how to use the Forge, just follow the easy-to-understand chart you find there & you’re good.

DangerMonkey.3158:

less trench coats pl0x

^This. I don’t want to look like Neo or Inspector Gadget.

I DON’T expect all Classes to be totally equal, I wouldn’t trade my Engineer for anything. but even (some) Thieves I know admitted, the Heart Seeker spam was just ridiculous, & despite all the ‘lrn2plai/dodge moar’ BS, yes, it needed a nerf. All the fail Thieves QQ’d & cried, while the rest just replaced it with Pistol Whip spam, & now (NOT all but the fail) Thieves are hoping that won’t get nerfed too.

Someone else’s opinion may differ, but IMO, NO skill should be anyone’s ENTIRE arsenal. If you’re a Warrior & you don’t/won’t attack unless 100 Blades is up, it’s ALL you use, & you can just totally own playing like that. there’s something very very wrong with that skill & it needs to be looked at. My point is, all NERFZ IT!!1!!! threads aren’t without merit.

Now let the rationalization begin.

Oh, & armor pierce also RIPS through Guardians. I know every Class doesn’t have that in their arsenal, but they DO have counters.

uMad.5719:

While rank doesnt correlate to skill. A higher ranked person would atleast HOPEFULLY signify they have a general idea of whats going on in pvp.

You would HOPE so, but I’m beginning to wonder. I’ve had players much higher than me in Rank waving it around in matches, wanting to use it as clout to call everyone else noobs/order the rest of the team around but really didn’t seem to know WTH they’re doing.

The other team was just straight zerging in groups on the LoF map & he wanted me to stay there (SOLO) & “defend the point”. I’m pretty decent, but I ain’t gonna be able to fight off 3-5+ people who didn’t just suck, which they didn’t. We won anyway, but everything he told us to do/did was dumb, & he was more than twice my Rank.

Also, entered a hot-join sPvP match yesterday after work & found out that most players on both teams were from the same Guild, a couple capped all the points, the rest just stood in the middle of the map randomly beating on each other. They’re getting points but they’re probably not learning very much like that.

Duckzor.4327:

Cmon guys let’s give them some map ideas you would like to see!

Another idea I could think of would be a huge manor/mansion. Garden, large rooms, small rooms, etc.

I kinda shy away from indoor maps because my build/style needs space to move around a lot, dodge, circlestrafe, etc, in a small room, I wouldn’t exactly be a stationary target but it would kill my strengths.

I would actually like to see some sort of map with more emphasis on the vertical, not the entire thing but we’ve all seen enough of these big long sprawling maps. I’d like to see ones with more shortcuts/paths, vantage points, etc, kind of like The Codex in Rift.

I LOVE the BoK map, it’s my 2nd favorite behind tLoF. Just NO more water-based maps, or trebuchets-type items please!

Agreed, a gazillion times, I thought it was just me. I looked through the entire PvP Locker & saw very VERY little to look forward to. Some of it looked just plain awful. I’m having to mix & match pieces because the sets together look horrid. Seems like most consist of some type of multi-layered flowing ripped-up trench coat, WTF?!?

Wasn’t exactly expecting Aion-level gear visuals but it’s 2012, is this the best AN could do? No, eye candy isn’t everything, but when you can’t stand to look at your character, it DOES make a difference.

Even fail MMO’s had better-looking gear than this. My advice: hire some of those unemployed costume designers from my 1st MMO, City of Heroes, THEY knew how to design some distinct, unique, really nice-looking stuff.

Agreed, we’ve been thinking the same thing. If I want to try a new build/gear, I have to change everything manually, then change it back, which is annoying, especially when it involves new Runes, etc as well.

Also agree with Kagemitsu, you should have to do a total respec just to subtract a point here or there.

Tarisuca is right, Rank doesn’t tell you a whole lot. It could just be telling us how much someone plays; someone who has lots of time but isn’t very good could be a lot higher Rank than a player who’s decent, but doesn’t play as much/have as much time to spare.

Besides, with people farming points, Rank doesn’t signify anything anyway, he could easily be an R40 noob.

spankproof.4618:

Putting my vote in to engi’s are fine, i’d say they are one of the most balanced classes at the moment, Only they take skill to play decently. Only reason i sometimes get frustrated is that i have to juggle 20 abilities while a pistol whip thief hits 1 for 10-15k damage,

I agree that it sometimes kinda sucks that I have to actually use my brain while some other players are half-consciously randomly mashing buttons, but it just makes it that much sweeter when you beat/outpoint them & they’re wondering how the heck that happened. To continually outscore/kill Thieves/Warriors & have them ask about your build makes it all worthwhile.

& again, you DON’T have to run FotM or cookie cutter Engi builds to be successful. Find the framework of a build that fits your playstyle then tweak it to taste. IMO that’s going to work out better for you than trying to force yourself into the mold of something that just doesn’t suit you/what you do well.

Byrko.6145:

If you put a in a quitting penalty, then do you play on indefinitely? Obviously the ability to opt-out of continuing after a map is completed would need to be added. Furthermore, how about instances such as when you join a game using ‘Play Now’ and it turns out to be just you in the game? I agree there needs to be some incentive to stay, but I think it needs to be thought through further to really make this game as revolutionary and awesome as it could be.

IMO: as hot-join sPvP is to be made so you can’t party in w/ friends anyways, many problems w/ team balance could be solved by randomly reassigning the teams with every new map. This way you wouldn’t be locked into a one sided run of losses therefor reducing the desire to jump out of a game to maximize the glory return on your playtime. I realize that winning does not necessarily increase your ability to earn glory however in heavily one-sided matches the opportunity to earn kill points exc. is somewhat diminished.

Umm, don’t they randomly reassign teams as you rotate through/switch maps in sPvP already? It’s not runs of losses with the same terribad team that are their issue, as was said earlier, people will just ragequit at any time if they think their side isn’t going to win, even if the margin is surmountable.

If I hotjoin a match & my side is losing badly, I still go out & do what I can to accumulate some points/have some fun/make the best of it. But most don’t, they just up & leave, & yes, with the current state of autobalancing, getting yanked from the winning team that I lead/helped lead to victory & shoved onto the losing side with less than a minute left (yeah, I mean that literally, it’s happened a couple of times with mere seconds left in the match) sucks, royally.

uMad.5719:

Only way to win vs a numbers advantage is either due to an overwhelming advantage via either player skills or initial damage on the attacks, class mechanics, OR severly outplaying the two attackers. Which I feel is fine.

^This. I really wish everyone would stop comparing GW2 to other games, & not that the original poster did but, especially WoW. This is NOT WoW & I pray it never ever becomes that.

NO, there is NO better gear &/or weapon to equalize the gap between a skilled & an unskilled player, that will make you own when you actually suck. NO, there is no super-I WINZ!!11!! button/skill (well, there aren’t that as many left), & NO again, you’re not going to run in & simultaneously slaughter 2 other skilled players because of your uber stuffs.

I’m ecstatic that that’s how it is, & I wouldn’t have it any other way; for all its flaws, I LOVE that aspect of GW PvP, that your gear doesn’t mean jack, so if you’re fail, you’ll fail, end of story. But for anyone who wants to feel like they’re good at PvP when they’re really not, hey, there ARE other games out there that will coddle you to warm fuzzy feelings of greatness.

My Engineer is very VERY effective in sPvP. I’m halfway to PvP L17, have @1800 kills, 140 wins, over 30k points, I’m not seeing the issues that you are. Granted, I’m running a somewhat unconventional build, I don’t use kits at ALL, & despite very little Toughness, I don’t die as much as you think & I do very well.

As Shukran said above, if I want to hold a point against half of the opposing team, I CAN. I can 1v1 a lot of classes successfully, depending on their build/the situation. I rip Guardians, Warriors even most Mesmers, to shreds. Turrets, the right turret at the right time, CAN be very effective, just depends on using it in the right situation against a certain enemy. I cannot emphasize enough that, in my view/opinion, Engis are all about timing, & less about spamming buttons. My friends are experienced PvPers as well but just can’t play their Engis as well as I can, maybe because they just want to go smash faces, not plan/think ahead a few steps.

It can be very very challenging, but when done well, the class is awesome. I’m rarely out of the Top 2 in points/kills in any match. DPS, defense, cc, unending utility, done properly, at times I feel unstoppable. What you see as weaknesses, I see as strengths, what I love the most about the class IS the versatility, I may change my build up depending on what map I’m running/what I’m doing.

Explore the Class, step away from the cookie cutter builds/kits/weapons & think differently. Google is your friend, don’t be afraid to try things, tweak the builds that you find to your liking, play around with your Traits, pick the ones that match not just your build, but how YOU play, swap your gear to suit your build, find what suits YOUR playstyle. In my case, I like to move around a LOT, so my build/trait choices reflect that.

After trying a few others, I LOVE this Class. I’ve been PvPing through low double-digit MMO’s in the past 8 years & this is one of my favorite Classes EVER. That’s saying something. Give the Class a chance, it doesn’t need a lot of dev love, just a tweak here & there. I don’t want them to make it button-mashing OP, I like being the only Engi on my team/in the match. I hope they keep Engi the Thinking Man’s Class.