Guild Wars 2

jportell.2197:

Which is the POINT of fighting mesmers! They aren’t supposed to be easy they are supposed to confuse you and distract you. Fighting d/d ele’s is REALLY annoying for me! But do I completely give up and say OH NERF NERF NERF! This isn’t fair because it “annoyed me” NO! I figure out how they rotate their attunement swaps. I learned that their earth attacks cause ALOT of bleeding. I know the best time to burst into them is right AFTER they switch from water. Fighting Necro’s is SUPER annoying for me because they can slap conditions on faster than I can rip them off. It may not be an L2P issue in your eyes in which case it is something else entirely which is learn how to take when you lose and try to figure out what you can do differently.

Ok, so lets put this way:
- Mesmers are fine and ppl who have difficult with him are playing wrong and have to l2p
- Ppl dont have problem with an specific mesmer, but with mesmers generally
So its easier believe that all the ppl who fight mesmers are bad than the prof have something wrong and the majority of mesmers are good, since they learned to play and for this they can faceroll the others? Considering that is one the most popular prof (probably the 2nd).

And about the annoying, ill believe you really hadnt read it, so ill make it clearer:
What youre saying is not be annoying. One thing is a tricky prof that bother you, like some CC spec, or making pressure like a condition spec. Other is a prof that doesnt demand the same skill from the others, while i need to play really better agaisnt them to have a chance to win. The skill needed to kill a good mesmer is visibly higher than the skill to kill a warrior or a guardian for example. This is not annoyance. If you believe in it, you are telling me that have some prof that its harder to defeat than others even going to a defensive spec or considering the playerskill. Wheres the balance in it?

jportell.2197:

Flat out mesmers have gotten nerfed more than any other class since release only having two patches where they got got buffed (one buff that was immediately nerfed after) and this recent one which was just bug fixes. So that says less about the people that play mesmers and way.more about people that hate on them because they still haven’t learned how to counter. Its ridiculous. Just stop

For real? I dont like thief and engi its not my preferred prof, but if someone can say that had more nerfs during the game are these guys. What was the great nerf that mesmer received that wasnt fair? The Might Stacks? The Shatter Global Cooldown? The Portal?
If you stop and think, you roll the same specs since last beta almost without changes, lol. And dont tell me its not good, because its the only 2 viable, because some profs even have more than a viable spec, and that cant do what you guys do.
Every other prof had to try a new one because their respective specs had the effectiveness reduced, and you guys just need to run the same thing with the same ease and say “Its a l2p issue” for everyone, like all the mesmers are skilled players and the rest noobs, while we have to predict your game with the minimum failures, since we make a mistake we have a great chance to die or closer.
About balance, some guys at the thread gave some good statements like hooma and Asomal.
Lastly, i lold with this

mesmers are more or less fine , i played them and played against them . sure they rather easy to play but so is evry class once you got a rotation in your fingertips.

evry character got a few points that coud be changed to balance it out abit better

after a while its easy to find the mesmer among the clones.
i can think of only 1 things that i felt was kinda op
- clones do damage ( bleed when they crit , and more or less they are a bleed on there own)
( clones shoud be for visual chaos only ( scatter skills ) . phantams for dps )

atm clones do damage while applying visual chaos, makes it a tad to hard when its a wel trained mesmer

but there are other characters that have bigger issues then this … ,
might be beter if they fixed / balanced other characters before thinking of adjusting the mesmer.

elementalist :
- ele water trait needs some adjusting ( to many condition removals / healing compared with other classes ) ,
- mistform shoud not heal ( seen alot of ele’s mistform and almost get there full health back from it )

thief :
- mug trait shoud not deal damage above 2 k ( in any build )
- nonstop stealthing shoud be on diminishing return or something that punishes overuse of it

ranger:
- pets shoud not be able to keep players in combat while the enemy is nowhere to be seen
- crossfire attack shoud have never been increased in attackspeed.

necro:
- ground targeting spells shoud not get a trait to increase the radius.( wells and marks are to big a radius atm)

and so on and so on
evry character got something small that coud be adjusted to balance it out

So, you really saw what you said? You really think its more reasonable to repair first all these profs, and then nerf mesmer? And the lack of sense of the things you point like the mesmer fixes compared to the fixes of some profs listed for you? lol, just lol…

Smooth Marc.8743:

Schnitter.9857:

I dont play agaisnt the top players, but during my fights agaisnt eles, my problems with them is the excessive condition removal and the mobility. E.g, I try to stack the bleed after the water attunement or the heal (when they’re using the condition removal heal), but since they have a constant access to both them its kinda effectiveless. And about the mobility, i mean that for some good times i almost killed the ele, but the guy just go away and i cant catch him. I dont blame him, he supposed to do it, but since the times i reach him is less by far than the times he successfully escapes, something might be wrong.
And sorry for the english, its not my main language.

If an ele runs off a point then you can neutralize or even capture it.If you can force a bunker off a point then there is a high chance he won’t be able to take it back solo.

I don’t get all the complaining about eles running.Crying about an ele running is like crying that a thief or mesmer using stealth to run from a fight they know they can’t win.

Probably because it isnt supposed to be this way, lol. Mesmer has stealth in 3 skills, 1 that its rarely used (Torch Skill), 1 from utility that its just some 3 seconds with 45 sec that doesnt improve his mobility and elite with 90 sec. The Stealth from Thief in my opinion need to be fixed, but it isnt the appopriate thread to talk about it. The difference is, besides both them access stealth they still take some time to take distance and get out the combat, and in some cases they have some cripple or chill, what difficults the escape.
Ele can just go away and try again, without some real risk. This is the problem.

I dont play agaisnt the top players, but during my fights agaisnt eles, my problems with them is the excessive condition removal and the mobility. E.g, I try to stack the bleed after the water attunement or the heal (when they’re using the condition removal heal), but since they have a constant access to both them its kinda effectiveless. And about the mobility, i mean that for some good times i almost killed the ele, but the guy just go away and i cant catch him. I dont blame him, he supposed to do it, but since the times i reach him is less by far than the times he successfully escapes, something might be wrong.
And sorry for the english, its not my main language.

Still wanna know the hell mesmers use a GS instead necros, considering they are kinda fragile than us esthetically. Its like give a Warrior a Staff and a Hammer to an Ele, lol.

Im not an expert in Thieves, but he seems to take these short teleports only near the OP. At the entire video the guy doesnt seem lagged, besides the teleport only affect that thief, and any of the other players. Just my opinion.
Funny thief war, btw.

The problem is much warriors just try to do it at the beginning of fight, when the enemy has all his sources out of cooldown. Besides, this combo is not so effetive in 1v1. Is much better if you take the enemy unprepared. Just my opinion.

Abigor.4952:

So, there will be 3 wells if you revive 3 allies?

1 well that revives until 3 allies inside it.

Necros in general used to be the kitten who fights with death magic and have the death’s power, the underdog. Considering that i always like this playstyle since Table RPG, i took Necro at the first look.

This usually works for me, so you can try this:
When you use your light field, put it into the direction of your mates who might cast a good number of projectiles. With this, you will remove your conditions really fast, since the projectile pass through the light field giving you condition removal. Besides, you have your 4th Focus skill, one virtue that removes conditions if traited, blocks and Smite that is awesome for this cases.

Joric.5376:

Schnitter.9857:

You hardly will see someone stacking 10 bleeding using just auto attack.

actually I had to laugh at that…

Just continue playing… eventually you will run into these enemies, just wait and see!

If you could show me someone that inflicts 10 bleeding stacks only with autoattack, ill be really surprised and apologize to say something that is incorrect.

Sebyos.4089:

Schnitter.9857:

Sebyos.4089:

Trap/Condition Rangers are crazy good against melees in general they can stack a hell of a lot of bleed while keeping you CCed.

And this game is so kitten condition removal is almost useless against good condition builds since they reapply faster than you can remove and then when you’r cooldowns are all poped and they still put bleeds on you with lame auto attacks, you’r screwed.

I mean who thought it was balanced to put condition removal on 15-60 seconds CDs and Bleeds on fast auto-attacks ? kittening braindead devs of course.

Only advsing you, probably all the professions have at least a Trait for Condition Removal, besides Condition Removal Skills and Combo Fields.
Elementalist for example can remove conditions with an awesome frequency.
Obviously some professions will have more manners to deal with condition than others.

Here’s the problem : some classes auto attack and reapply bleeds really fast, but here’s what you have to do to remove then conditions.

- Take precious time to cast skills which means not attacking while being shot with auto attacks that will reapply the bleeds right as your cast ends anyway
- Landing the condition transfers while not being able to constitantely dodge the auto attacks that reapply conditions
- Suffer when you are out of skills because of the lengthy cooldowns while the attack simply has to auto attack without cooldown problems
- Use traits the remove conditions with lengthy cooldowns while traits for Bleed duration are of course permanent.

All of this goes pretty much the same way the post of Eatthisshoes did 2-3 days ago. Basically, it’s way too easy to do offense in this game comparing to defense on which the burden is put.

The problem is that Condition Removal is not for being used to remove Auto attack conditions. You hardly will see someone stacking 10 bleeding using just auto attack. The same way that condition spec have auto attack conditions, burst spec have a reasonable damage in auto attack, and both work by the same way: Use the auto attack to pressure your enemy, then use your real combo.

Sebyos.4089:

Trap/Condition Rangers are crazy good against melees in general they can stack a hell of a lot of bleed while keeping you CCed.

And this game is so kitten condition removal is almost useless against good condition builds since they reapply faster than you can remove and then when you’r cooldowns are all poped and they still put bleeds on you with lame auto attacks, you’r screwed.

I mean who thought it was balanced to put condition removal on 15-60 seconds CDs and Bleeds on fast auto-attacks ? kittening braindead devs of course.

Only advsing you, probably all the professions have at least a Trait for Condition Removal, besides Condition Removal Skills and Combo Fields.
Elementalist for example can remove conditions with an awesome frequency.
Obviously some professions will have more manners to deal with condition than others.

May be the first time i saw someone saying this.
I like to play Rangers to have some fun. Unfortunately, only condition spec have some effective. I think your problem agaisnt Rangers is that you are probably rolling a total DPS spec without survival resources. With my Ranger for example i can easily stack 15+ Bleeding at enemies, without traps (not good at all, but very interesting when enemies dont have sources to avoid conditions, etc). So, if you dont have any way to remove conditions, you certainly will be dead in a few seconds. I recommend you to take Pain Response Trait. If your build allow you to stealth constantly, you can try Shadow’s Embrace and see if it is useful or not for you in these fights.

Kardiamond.6952:

I won’t say it’s the top build, but it’s competitve.

I use vampiric on hit, on crit and on minion hit. I also got some healing and thoughtness gear some my #2 from dagger is pretty good.

PvE : Really good. You can tank quite a bit of damage and you always regen some. I only PvE for the new fractale and while I can still pack a punch, I heal pretty fast from ennemies damage. Axe #2 hit really fast so it regen a good number of hp.

WvW : Depend who you are fighting, some will burst tru it like nothing. Other build it will save your life. Ranged group abd siege it’s really useful because you don’t have to go back to heal. You take a bit of damage, but you heal over it.

sPvP : Didn’t try, could be garbage. But bunker vampiric build might be good?

I dont wanna seem a schmuck, but in PvE everything goes fine, patrically. In WvW, despite you have some fights, the strategy and sieges makes much more difference than players build. In sPvP, I think that should be our best bunker build, but not even work.

digiowl.9620:

Meh, i am starting to think that whoever claims so and so build works (be it vampirics, axe, or some other such claim) are better than average at kiting their opposition.

I would think by this way, but even the Top Necros at Competitive Teams play with general specs. Not that it matters.

restoration.2806:

digiowl.9620:

Oh yes we do. Some have reported success by going “all in” on vampirics.

This meaning siphon on crit, siphon on hit, siphon on wells, and as many vampiric sigils and runes as they can lay their hands on.

It is almost as if Anet is not aware of the kind of numbers direct damage can output.

So your telling me vampiric works? How about on a power build cause I wouldn’t use siphon on crit with low crit rate.

Vampiric in theory should works with Knight Amulet, and Toughness you get from Runes and Traits, but the higher health and consistent life siphon would help you to get alive, compensating the lower Armor. But since our vampiric traits doesnt scale with healing Power, its such a lame. IMO, they could remake the vampiric mechanic and make it scale with Power.

Ascii.9726:

Yes, Putrid Explosion is affected by ‘Training of the Master’ 30% minion damage trait.

Edit: magic the entire thread disappeared!

Necros forum dude, necros forum.

Bellocchi.4593:

restoration.2806:

Does anyone else think Anet needs to look into vampirisim and the traits that follow making it a legitimate line that steals health viably?

At the rate things are going, never gonna happen.

No, they think its more important our dark scythe appears while we cast Mark of Blood.

DS is a mechanic that depends of your build. If you play in a Condition spec, you wont get any advantage from DS #1, besides, you will use DS #2 and #3 much more, #4 to refill your LF Pool a little and the proper DS like a damage mitigation skill. In some power specs for example, people use DS like a massive damage source (seems a joke, but its note). So, basically you may use DS to have a complete and effective gameplay, but depending your spec the way you use DS will be different.

Ascii.9726:

Storm of the Ages.9076:

I activate spectral walk and jump off ledge. Enemy goes to ledge to see if I die. I revert, then F1, then 3. Enemy falls to death.. Who is weak now <.<

lmfao that’s perfect, jump then recall, dodge roll back death shroud doom or staff fear.

Im wondering this scene in my mind and laughing hard. Serious, no one could be so dumb… (my apologies for dumb guys that do it)

“Some of you guys at ANet had mastered DS? Seems that anyone here mastered yet…”
“Why cant we have a decent Power Spec compared to other professions or a reliable vampiric/healing spec? (since you correct the related traits)”

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Schnitter.9857:

Plague has an interesting use in WvW, and absolutely better if you run Chilling of Darkness in Curses Trait.

I agree with you, but for whatever reason, Chilling Darkness does not work with Plauge. It should, but it doesn’t.

Hope its a bug. If the problem was the synergy with Plague, they had put an internal cooldown on it.

1 – Is very good, but in my case, for example, i always see great portions of ppl zerging or similar, so i leave these for zergs, put some conditions and go for the next.
2 – Sieges are not affected by Marks, unless someone trigger them.
3 – Depends. In some cases, Well of Blood helps a lot. For example, sometimes i put Bone Minions on my Utilities and run Mark of Evasion. So, if i have a party with me, i dodge on Well of Blood, making the Mark of Blood from Mark of Evasion creat a Blast Finisher, explode the 2 Minions, generating 2 more blasts and use the 4th staff skill, another blast. This give to me and my party something about 16+ sec Retaliation, what is pretty awesome. Besides, is a10 sec Light field that grants heal per sec.
4 – Not exactly. Is good, but not so effective like should be.
5 – Is an execelent skill, but the cooldown and cast time make it awful. Until you cast it your friends died, in general.
6 – I wont comment this cus i dont use this skill so frequently.
7 – Is perfect for WvW. And excellent break stuns that gives you an outstanding mobility.
8 – Useless for my spec
9 – The damage from Lich is good by far, but since you transform in a giant monster with a good damage, you became a main target…

@Other concernings
Plague has an interesting use in WvW, and absolutely better if you run Chilling of Darkness in Curses Trait.
Epidemic is a must have for Condition specs. I hope that someday i find a Confusion Stack Mesmer at WvW and may use Epidemic at his target. Would be awesome…
And the wells have a stronger use here, mainly at defending Sieges/Structures.

@Edited

So let me see… An awesome build you cant tell, that only you know who allow you to combat 2 guys easily?
Your post remembered me this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Gm6JYFdnD8

I would say the advantage of enginneers in a Condition spec comes to the condition diversity the profession has. You can have bleeds, poison, confusion and burning as damage sources and cripple, immob, blind as controls. Sure the lack of bleeding stacks is bad, but good rewarded by this diversity. In an example, with my necro i have some good trouble to defeat some Condition removal spec enemies, since i can stack bleed easily but only bleed, what make their job much easier. While Enginneer, i can bring many conditions to deal damage, what complicates the condition removals.

@Azmat Raza
I can be wrong, but since I tested 60% to proc bleed in a 40~50% crit chance is fine. With 2 Sigils you’ll have something like 80~85% to proc, but with Sigil of Corruption you have a better offensive option, since it improves your damage with burning, poison, bleeding and confusion.

@Edit
And like the upper guy said, 2 earth sigils dont proc, just 1.

I can be wrong, but necro is intentionally slow, a turtle gameplay like for example. In theory, necros are slow but deadliest if they caught enemies, but just in theory…

PinCushion.7390:

BS Thieves have to blow most of the cooldowns for their better burst, and have to rely on their class mechanic (stealth) to not die. This seems pretty cool and very similar. Good show! This is a total commitment build. Either you win or you don’t. I like it.

Thanks OP. You’ve improved my opinion of this profession.

1 Utility (Sin Signet), a skill that stealths him like Steal, Hide in Shadows or Cloak and Dagger, then Backstab. Seems only 3 for me. And of course, im not even arguing about how faster is for a thief or a mesmer reopen their combos.

@Alkaline
Break stun or try to enter DS before the CC, making you immune to stun (traited with Foot in the Grave).

The damage was really good. The problem is the consistence and what you do to achieve this. Im not degrading your build, But you used 7 Skills to kill an enemy – from these 7, 3 were utilities and 1 an Elite -, that still could avoid your damage, by mitigation or dodging. Besides, i liked to see ppl like you trying to run other setups, since it can help us to show Devs that our build options isnt really that wonder. In this case for example, you used above 6~7 skills to kill an enemy with good chances to fail, what implicates in a reasonable time to have your CCs back, while FoTM can reopen a massive burst combo much faster.

lettucemode.3789:

I think the reason our fears are weak is because you can make them so much better with traits and runes.

Ascii said above that you can get 2.8 seconds of fear, let’s bring that down to 2.5 seconds of fear because you can’t count on using Rare Veggie Pizza in all situations. You can make Fear do damage with a trait, and that damage scales off condition damage. So it seems easy(ier) to fit in to a good condition build. Also, we have an AoE fear when we go down if you trait for it. We also have an AoE fear trait when we are disabled by knockdown or whatever else. Don’t forget the free fear mark when reviving (although it is bugged atm, keeps the smaller radius I think).

Someone said above that his warrior can do a 4-5 second AoE fear. That’s pretty good, but it seems like as necros, if we trait for it, we have 4 or 5 2.5 second fears, 3 of which are AoE, and all of which will probably be used in a single fight. It seems to me that our fears are weaker than other classes’ fears because we have more of them up more often, and when traited for them, it seems like all of them together makes a pretty attractive package. Personally I’d rather have several good fears than one great one.

Someone should make a build that incorporates all this, test it out and report back…

This in PvE/WvW. Should be modified at sPvP. At sPvP for example, if you take Master of Terror, you are giving up of more useful traits like Soul Marks, Path of Midnight, Spectral Mastery, Vital Persistence and Mark of Revival (without even mention the Grand Master Tier Traits). Course its really better having a fear that lasts longer, but would it be better than these traits?
Besides, the unique other way to increases your fear at sPvP is using Rune of Necromancer (+20% Fear Duration at 6 pieces), that isnt that good.

@LastDay
Fear me is fair. A 80 sec skill that scales fear depending the range of enemies. But the Stolen Fear for me need a nerf. Its a 3 sec AoE Fear -_-

Doctor Orderly MD PhD DDS.7625:

Cool pic. Unfortunately, lot of BS here:
- Spite X is no longer bugged
- Curses III and IV were never bugged? Unless you mean III + Plague and the internal cooldown on IV which are reasonable (but should be made clear)
- DM II is no longer bugged
- BM had some fixes, honestly the differences between some of the traits still confuse me so IDK
- SR III is no longer bugged, SR X was never bugged.

So… yeah. Stop presenting false info. And I just posted the ones I knew where wrong, for instance idk if Curses X or DM III is bugged or not.
(for reference: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Necromancer_traits)

edit: oh right, Curses IV gives one less stack of bleeding than it should.

Yeah, some infos dont proceed, but:
- SR III is not totally bugged, but Dark Path bugs with the DS cd reduction. Sometimes, you u use it, the skill will enter in cooldown, passing some few seconds, them reset and go to the previous cooldown (12 sec)
- About BM, i believe the vampiric traits doesnt work as intended. But, since i dont tested it so deeply, i wont do any statement
- Curses IV is bugged. Doesnt stack the intended bleeding. Stack only 1 instead of 2

@Merch
^ Explained.

Gryph.8237:

Ok I disagree Seras. I run a hybrid build (1790 power, 1550 percision, 1300 toughness/vitality) and with full bloodlust I have over 3k attack (45% crit, 45% crit dmg), 2.3k armor, with 1200 condition damage = 103 dmg per tick. If I got a small percentage of life force off condition damage I deal, I would be MUCH tougher to bring down. Way tougher, so that I would even sacrifice more abiltiies to increase condition damage. As a hybrid you can get decent crits (Staff 4 2k, Life blase 3-4k, DS 4 – 4-5k, axe 2 4-5k) and im still dropping bleeds from scepter. Hell I have critted on scepter for 1k (3 attack on scepter does more damage) after getting vulnerabilty on targets.

You add LF gain from condition damage, and I would jump for joy. Hugely. YOu add a small condition dmg to Life blast (DS 1) and I would go nuts and never leave my necro.

I use DS a lot on the hybrid build, which equates to 20/30/0/0/20 – gives DS a lot of utility. Love to pop into DS when a thief is coming at me, and watch him drop my DS health down, while taking a good amount of damage from retaliation. Yes my DS gets erased but man, seeing a rogue go half health from his Steal-cloak/dagger-backstab combo hit (or pistol whip depending on the thief) and the proceed to burn him down when he cant stealth. mostly they will switch to shortbow and shadowshot out until their skills regen, which time your health regens.

Yeah, but you only can achieve this in PvE/WvW. Try to do this in sPvP and see how far of this you will be. Besides, the game skills, etc are not balanced byt PvE/WvW (I hope ppl understand this, cus i dont wanna explain…).

@Avalanzhe
They work. For several times I used Life Transfer after 2nd DS Skill to maintain the Bleed stacks.

I think it would resolve the current situation, but if Gluttony was working and if it had synergy with Reaper Precision, we would have 33% to receive 6% of LF at Critical Hits, probably would help the condition specs a lot. Course, its just theorycrafting, since we dont know even if these traits would work in synergy.

@Ascil
Just remembering you, Condition Duration doesnt affect fear. Probably the game consider fear more a control than a condition properly. Ive tested another day and i havent no increase…

Parakeet.6083:

@Schnitter I never said that a power build is viable for tourneys. I think that they are but I really don’t want to spend time on that argument. What I said was that I think that your build can be much more survivable than it currently is.

I would be happy to give you a quick rundown of ways you can improve the survivability of your build. My suggestions are as follows:

Sigils: Sigils of energy instead of sigils of leeching.

Runes: Runes of earth will give you more tankyness but its probably not worth it to give up all that extra condition damage.

Utility skills: Get rid of all the wells and put in spectral wall, Flesh wurm, and either spectral walk or spectral armor.

Traits: Without having to invest so many points into trying to make wells viable (and still failing) you will have enough points to put 10 or 15 into soul reaping for the 25% less degeneration on death shroud. If you go 15 in you can get the spectral armor at half health.

These changes will make you harder to kill and possibly even make it easier to kill enemys. If you are unsure of how these changes will help you, let me know, and I will explain them in more detail.

Sigils – Sigil of Leeching is more useful for Healing Power focused specs. Heals almost 1k each swap. Probably 1 Sigil of Energy would be good.
Runes – Like i said, the intention is be tanky. With Earth, i gain Magnetic Aura each 90 seg when my HP drops to 25% if im not wrong, and much better, chance to active protection for 10 sec.
Traits – The Well Traits are not a waste of trait points. By the same way, if you go for Spectral spec probably you would use Spectral Mastery and Spectral Attunement, what is the same number of Traits that i put to improve my Wells. And about -25% faster LF decrease, is not so reliable like it seems. Ive done some tests absorbing damage and using DS skills with and without this Trait, and the use of this trait dont make all the improve it seems to do.
Utility – Flesh Wurm is a sklill that i altern with Well of Power, no problem. About Spectral Wall, its not that good. I use to receive swiftness and take another skill. We have better options like AoE blindness of Well of Darkness. And Spectral Armor, even that its a good skill have a too long cooldown, pratically the double of anyone of my wells. Still being better, the well compensate this difference with a better cooldown and with the trait that gives me 3 sec of protection each time i cast a well.
Besides, i respect your opinion, but you had some problem with wells in anytest you did? Is not that bad you think. I also tought that wells were not viable, and then i tried to put them in a spec and see their synergy, and for bunkering seems good.

@TheBoz
I know it seems ridiculous, but if mesmer kills you just because used a win button like people say, if his elite is in cooldown he wont be able to kill you so easily. I really would like to say you something different but unfortunately i dont. We just can accept and hope for a reduction at Moa duration or some balance.

Parakeet.6083:

@Schnitter Someone could easily make a power build that has better survivability than yours… simply because you are not using the right skills. Every one of your utilities is not the best of choices for a build that wants to live for any length of time.

Funny, cause i havent seen viable power builds in tournaments :p. Still waiting for one. And yes, it is the right utilities. This utilities allow me convert boons in conditions and conditions in boon, also nullify burst damage, Mark of Blood gives me 1.4k regen each 6 seg, besides the other Mark of Blood a i can cast with Mark of Evasion. If you have a more effective build, i ask you to post here. Who knows if isnt a really good build that can change the current situation of power necros in tournaments? =)

@Terok
The damage of Whirlwing Wrath is really good, but is very easy to avoid. What probably can most annoy you is the retaliation guardian if you dont remove it.

1 – No, power doesnt increase Condition Duration. And this +63% Condition Duration is only for scepter, just remembering you.

2 – Spiteful Vigor seems good, but more reliable to Power specs, since retaliation scales with power. Considering that you wont increase your Power, your retaliation base damage would be something like 267 (retaliation base damage for lvl 80). If you wanna calculate and see if you think it viable, the retaliation damage increases by 1 for every 13.4 power. Reaper Protection is good, but i personally dont like it since your enemy can use some CC that is irrelevant but will trigger your trait.

3 – According the traits you listed, have a better synergy with Condition spec.

4 – Stick. You only lose the stacks if you go down. Some people prefer Minor Sigil of Corruption because improve their Condition Damage. In a competitive pvp where you have teams at the same level, i dont think its a good idea. We have better rune options like Geomancy and Doom if you look for something more offensive, and Leeching to help you deffensively.

Jaydee.8143:

Schnitter read my original post, I said i was aware of condition builds efficiency and viability. No you canNOT bunker as a condition necromancer. That is definitely not a build that offers enough dmg mitigation, healing, and other utility to be called a bunker, I would LOVE to see you handle 3 people as a conditionmancer for more than 10 seconds. When I say bunker, I mean the actual bunker, as in something that can hold off 2-3 people long enough for the rest of the team to show up and clean house. So no, no condition necromancers can’t bunker. Yes they can counter a bad bunker who doesn’t properly remove conditions.

I assume that you really dont know your own profession. Condition spec are probably one of the most effective counter bunker build, how can you say that can only counter bad bunker? lol. And people in general takes so much time to down a bunker cause the bunker build is focused to counter Power specs. If you put 2 Power spec players agaisnt someone that have 3k Toughness and a good HP they will take a good time until defeat him. However, if this same bunker get focused by 2 condition spec players, he will die faster.
If you doubt about the survival of a condition spec, i ask you to show me a power spec with a better survival than this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNArYWjMah6daaa87JAJFPj9kivHP6BxHnMA;TsAg2CrogxAjAGrPOYk+sCZUxMEA

Roziel.5720:

Pretty much the title thread. DS should be hitting much much harder then it does. Even with life siphoning which I assume improves life transfer you can only stay in DS for so long. On top of that, DS has a built in limiter in that the less life you have on the bar, the less damage you do. So not only the longer you are in it the less damage you do as it drains, but with things attacking you get even less time. So the end result this should get a big buff to damage, projectile speed, and the cast time.

Is the class broken? No, and the way it is the class is serviceable and playable and most importantly very enjoyable. But thus far after playing most of the classes to 30+ this is the only class that has no real burst capability. At all. Can it outlast and eventually kill pretty much anything? Sure, but it is kinda embarrassing to be wailing on something and seeing the supposedly underpowered elementalist burst down the same mob in half the time. Heck our DPS can be so bad sometimes that I feel like I kill more stuff from the downed position then I do on my feet. Heck we even got a TRAIT for it!

If any of our mechanics could and should give us that utility and ability to burst, it is our DS mechanic. Built in limiters and built in nerfs for trying to spam it would keep it from being “OP”.

And it hit in the apropriate spec. In power spec you can hit 1.5~2k without crit with your 1st DS Skill, and until 3k~4k with crit, besides the 4th skill give you a great AoE damage. The problem i see in use DS in an offensive way is that you are giving up of part of your best deffensive source.

@kKagari
The point is this invulnerable skills have a long cooldown if compared to our DS. While an Elementalist can go to Mist Form each 75 sec, we can go to DS each 10 sec, or 5 if traited. Obviously Mist Form is much better in defensive terms, but is not so frequent like DS.

Jaydee.8143:

See a few things here, I’ve tried similar builds as what you described but i stay away from wells generally aside from condition removal. I find axe/focus to be a very good combo as well, because of reaper’s touch and axe2. The build just does NOT stand up against an ele bunker or a guardian bunker however. I’ve tried builds nearly identical before. And schnitter, you are just showing me a condition build. Scepter/dagger staff. Condition. I know condition builds work

You said that you wanna see effective builds, and there it is. I presume that if you ran correctly the Condition spec you must know that is the most effective and useful spec of necromancer atm. With this setup we can bunker and counter bunker easily.

@Boz
You said 4v5, so i presume that you were saying about a teamfight. Like i said, if a Mesmer use a Moa in a 1v1 just trying to kill you, he wasted his best disable. Seems unfair, but its another problem. If the thread was about “What you think about Moa, blabla” I would say that has a too long duration, while the idea should be just disable your oponent, and not gives you an almost certain kill. But the thread’s proposal are tips agaisnt Mesmer and his current state.
And no, bleed dont take too much time to work. What probably happens is that youre stacking all your best bleeding stack skills in a first moment, then Mesmer probably uses Null Field, removing your bleeding. Besides Null Field, Mesmers usually dont have another Condition Removal, so its easy to stack. About stealth, is only every 32 sec. Like i also said, people usually take too much time to find the real mesmer, what gives him an advantage. And about the Downed State, what gives Mesmer good chances to down you is the fact that even he goes downed his clones doesnt disappear, and in sometimes when you down him with a low HP the clones kill you. Probably if the clones disappear when he goes down it would be more fair.

@Oozo
I agree in genre with you, the problem is just the lack of an official answer.

Oozo.7856:

Hi.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/MOVIE-Shroudstomp-Power-Necro-WvW/first#post469570

You can stomp and revive while in Deathshroud if you hit them at the same time. I’ve never experienced the bug that Andele mentioned and I’ve done this a lot. :P

I’m hoping they don’t nerf it and just give us the ability to stomp and revive straight up. I don’t see what the problem is since other classes have mechanics that give them advantages while stomping and reviving as well.

Outstanding. Ive never seen this, lol
Had you contact some Dev to discover if it is a bug or is “valid”?

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNArYWjMa96dayb87JAJFPfd0DiPOZKFlzOA;TsAAzCpo+y8l4LrPuvk+s6YUx0DA

If you want to replace the 10 Points of Death Magic to Blood Magic and take Mark of Evasion, no problem. I made this choice because i felt better to my gameplay, allowing me to send conditions to enemies faster, using fear faster and maintaining enemies with poison for a good time, besides this spec gives me a little more of Toughness and Boon Duration.

The utilities are not always these, depending mostly of the enemy you face, but i believe this is the most balanced utility option that i run. Explaining the Utilities:

- Flesh Worm allows you a 40 seg breakstun that also gives you 10% LF, teleporting you to his location. I even need to say how excellent this is. Also improves your mobility between the Points a lot.
- Well of Power is a counter condition utility, since we didnt have our Plague Signet working as intended. Despite this skill doesnt give you a break stun, gives you a better survival agaisnt condition specs, mostly agaisnt Condition Enginneers.
- Corrupt Boon that i think a must have utility for Necro. Allows you to nullify any type of boon (except aegis, take care with this to not throw away your skill), mostly agaisnt Guardian, Elementalist and Warrior.

As i said, i change my utilities depending of the enemy. Basically:
Facing Condit spec enemy – Flesh Wurm, Well of Power and Corrupt Boon.

Facing a Power spec enemy – Flesh Wurm, Well of Darkness and Corrupt Boon.
Main utilities – Flesh Wurm, Well of Power and Corrupt Boon.

Facing a high boon generator (Guardian, some Ele and Engi Specs) – Well of Corruption, Well of Power and Corrupt Boon.

Facing multiple enemies like in Keep, Clock, etc – Epidemic, Well of Power and Corrupt Boon.

This build can seems squishy, but i can do 1v1 easily, and have a good performance at teamfights. Further, if you see this spec pratically always run Well of Power, what is a great skill to help your team at condition removals.

@TheBoz
In fact we can stomp and ress while in Plague and Lich, but like allt he other transform skills: You have to begin the stomp/ress before you use the skill.

^
Make the enemy team use his best disable without a good reason seems an advantage (In the case of Moa someone that just gone to DS). If i agree that Moa is OP or not is another matter.
If you have your team with you, certainly some of your friends will use some skills to help you, like Guardian’s Sanctuary or Necromancer’s Well of Darkness.

Moa is really disturbing, but keep in mind that if your enemy used this Elite (with 180 cd sec) in a 1 he wasted an important disable just to kill you, what gives your team an advantage if a teamfight starts at the place. Basically, if Moa’d try to hide behind walls and things that can obstruct the mesmer attacks.

Now, to fight agaisnt a Mesmer, here go some tips:
- Dont waste your time killing his illusions;

- Know how discern fastly who is the real mesmer. If you waste more time than it should you can die. To help you, attempt to real character movies, like dodges, personal boons like Distortion, the Swap of Illusionary leap and Mesmer skills that can be discerned from the clones;

- Linked with the previous tip, many times people lose the fight agaisnt Mesmers when they go Invi because they take too much time to find the real mesmer. So, pay attention at the scenario and see where the mesmer will appear. Obviously, also use the logic to previse. Example: If a mesmer is with a low HP he probably will not appear so near from you;

- In general, Mesmers try to combo you with all their DPS in a time. So, if pay attention to the moves. If you see all their clones approaching from you, prepare to dodge or go to DS. Also pay attention at Illusionary Leap, cause it will be follow by Blurred Frenzy;

- Besides most mesmers dont run a Condition spec, they can pop a good stack of confusion without focus properly on this. So, before you just try to combo your enemy, see if you dont have any Confusion. If you have, use your skills to remove or throw back to him.