Guild Wars 2

Blackjack.5621:

solo q sucks player off team q, the queue times are insanely long and we will get a rating defaltion due to less players participating in team q, so you cannot catch up to top ratings.

Also the leaderbaord for solo q makes no sense, since it´s not competitive, but luck based.

ppl join solo q because they like it. It is freedom of choice.

daydream.2938:

Part of the reason the population is low is because of a lack of features. Its kinda a self fulfilling prophecy at this point. I know several ppl who have quit pvp bc they cant solo Q and don’t want to wait for only premades to play.

Correct. The lack of solo Q is the major reason that drives most ppl away from sPvP.
You don’t wait for a high population to implant solo Q. You implant solo Q first to attract a high population into sPvP.

Yes, but they need to nerf bunkers as well. Otherwise they become unkillable.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Options that we have working internally, so far, include:
Name
Password
Message of the Day
Max Players
Minimum Players
Respawn Time
Score Limit
Team Size
Time Limit
Respawn Type (Wave or Individual)
Autobalance Toggle
Lock Gear Toggle
Lock Skills Toggle
Ready Button Toggle
Spectators Toggle
No Stats Toggle
Map selection

Would like to see at least some way to change the game type. For example:
Option to toggle certain nodes off. So one could leave only one node on to make it a king of mountain type game.

My guess: A real visible ladder, a working MMR system, separate solo/premade queue, and fix some obvious balance issues. Those are pretty much every one has been asking for ages.

Valkyriez.6578:

What are you asking exactly? I read it a few times but didn’t get what you were implying.

Not being a pain, but more clarification is needed.

Because the whole Rank thing is stupid to start with. It is nothing but mindless grinding. And the last thing you want in a good PvP game is grinding.
They should simply remove Rank and replace it with a real ladder as many other games do. Then people will have something to compete for in PvP.

Sparrow.8296:

Hey there,

I do really hope, actually, that someone from ANet can respond to this, as I’m very currious where actually are we heading…

I will start with this – I have pretty much no idea why I’m playing pvp.

Obviously, playing sPvP for glory doesn’t make any sense at the moment. I got anything I could/wanted from Deer rank, and I’m only at 14th rank. It proceeds slowly, and all the gold chests drops are just rubbish. Salvaging them gives me at best deer token… which I can transform into Deer armor, which I already have.

So I mostly stack my glory, with no idea or purpose how to use it.

And obviously, playing 2 teams tournaments now is the only thing that makes any sense at all. Winning chests is addictive, I admit. Drops from chests are pretty neat, I admit. Whole week on the same map, which in the end get’s horribly borring, but ok… it still gives me a lot of fun anyway.

But I’m just thinking to myself… What next? Where are we heading?

Leveling and gaining ranks is as slow as it can be. The day when I reach 80th rank, Guild Wars 4 will premiere. Soon I will get all the drops from chests that I’m looking forward to. Probably it’s gonna happen before I will hit 25th rank.

So I’m well dressed, as I would like to, with no real chances on getting cultural armor any time soon and hitting last rank. Thousands of glory which I can waste on tokens to have fun in Mystic Forge… and one type of tournament I’m playing all the time.

So what is a long term for me?

80 is not a long term – it’s so far away I can’t even see it.
All the armors from tournament chests are short term goals.
HotM is a nice hub, but still – it’s just bunch of ruins on an island with few people wandering around.

Why Hall of fame is empty since the game release?
Why there are no upcoming tournaments, bigger events which can last for days/weeks?
Why can’t I buy gems for glory for example (1k glory = 1 gem?)?
Why there is nothing else for the glory than useless chests from which I’m salvaging everything, while getting rubbish mats from it.
Why there are no arenas (2v2 – 3v3)?
Why there are no duels?
Shouldn’t HotM be something more than few walls and training ground? Like a hub for few servers, where sPvP is essential, and nothing more?
Why 2 teams tournaments can’t roll on random map EACH time we play, not every week?
Why gaining ranks give me clearly nothing as I have better gear from tournament chests than I will be able to buy through next 40-50 levels?

GW2 is maybe not about sPvP, but it’s a wonderfull and complex world which we can’t really see while logging to Heart of the Mists. It’s gray and sad, with no social interactions among people who are there, and nothing more than a tournament master who let’s you join the match, and a large wardrobe…

so, the tl:dr is: What goals do we have in PvP now? Do we have any at all, aside from short term objectives?

Tyler Bearce.3427:

I just looked into this. The problem is that you currently only earn the sword if you have exactly 10 HoM points. It might be too late for us to get a fix in for the Feb 26th build, but a fix will be coming.

So, is the fix coming in March ……. 2013?

Tyler Bearce.3427:

The point is to have competitive matches. If you are so good that you beat every other solo group. Then yeah you should have at least a reasonable shot at beating the lower tier premades.

The key issue is that the power of a group of solo players can not be simply determined by just adding their individual ranks together. A group of 5 super stars with zero coordination is still incompetent.

GW1 random arena (Solo Q) had a perfect solution for this:
(1) For each game, winner team stay for the next match, loser team out and disband.
(2) Consecutive win streak gives higher and higher reward, so that people are willing to stay.
(3) After 10 consecutive wins, the team (originally made from Solo Q) is sent into team arena to match against premades.

This is perfect because:
(1) When you click “join game” in random arena. You know that you won’t be matched against a premade. So solo people are happy to play here. Not scared away. That is why random arena is one of the most popular place in GW1.
(2) It encourages healthy team collaboration even in a random team. Since there is a reason to win and to keep your team winning.
(3) Solo Q teams that made through 10 consecutive wins are proven strong teams with good chemistry established. They are usually stronger than an average premade team. So they are well prepared and qualified for competing in the Team arena.

The whole RA/TA system of GW1 is the best PvP system that I have ever seen in any MMO. I see no reason why you can not directly copy it into GW2. Just replace the RA with Solo Queue, and TA with premade Queue. Add a separate MMR for each Queue would make it even better.

Solo queue is the only thing needed at the moment to attract most players into PvP.
When the PvP playerbase grow to a big enough size. Duo queue can be a good thing to have. But not now.

Siric.3589:

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Oni.5429:

You have two separate tourny ques at this moment. One for 3 round and one for 1 round. In a blog post you guys said that they had separate matchmaking. Paid tournaments previously demonstrated that you guys have the ’’feature’’ in place to force someone to be 5 premade players to que in to the match. You also now have a ‘’join solo’’ button.

If you piece these pieces together you get:

1.Make one tournament que ‘’join solo’’ only, 1 round
2. Make the other que ‘’submit roster’’ with 5 only , 1 round

LE VOILA!
It’s okay, we can scrap the idea of duoq for now. Put that in your ’’soon’’ basket. You can do the same for the random map generator, just keep rotating maps manually the way you guys do every 2 days or something.

There. That is the solution that will allow solo players to play the game without getting stomped by teams.

So in this suggestion, people would only play as a team of 5 or by themselves. That would mean effectively disabling tournaments for people who want to play tournaments with a friend. Or two friends, or three friends, but don’t have a full team. I can’t imagine that would go over very well either.

I think many of these suggestions are being thrown out as more or less hot-fixes to the current state, not as the perfectly ideal situation.

Idealy we would have ranked solo/dou (trio?) queue, ranked 5 man, and unranked any queue with seperate ladders and ratings. However, as already pointed out these queues take time to implement and there would likely be a population issue in the games current state making it unreasonable to expect these soon*tm.

What we do need is a seperation of PUGs and 5 man, the rest is much less important. A team queue and a 1-4 man queue that trys to match you with teams with = number of premade players (i.e. a 4+1 will be matched with a 4+1 or a 3+2). There is no benifit to having 5 man teams stomp PUGS, neither team enjoys it.

Solo Q is different from 2Q, 3Q, 4Q, 5Q, or whatever. Solo Qer is the vast majority in pretty much any online game. So, satisfying Solo Qer should always be the #1 priority in any online game development, way above 2Q, 3Q, 4Q, 5Q.
By appealing to Solo Qer, you will attract a large number of players. When there are enough players around, they will start form teams for 2Q, 3Q, 4Q, 5Q.
On the other hand, if you kitten off Solo Qer, you are driving the vast majority of players away. The PvP community will be very small and shrinking. The 2Q, 3Q, 4Q, 5Q will eventually fail as well.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

Oni.5429:

You have two separate tourny ques at this moment. One for 3 round and one for 1 round. In a blog post you guys said that they had separate matchmaking. Paid tournaments previously demonstrated that you guys have the ’’feature’’ in place to force someone to be 5 premade players to que in to the match. You also now have a ‘’join solo’’ button.

If you piece these pieces together you get:

1.Make one tournament que ‘’join solo’’ only, 1 round
2. Make the other que ‘’submit roster’’ with 5 only , 1 round

LE VOILA!
It’s okay, we can scrap the idea of duoq for now. Put that in your ’’soon’’ basket. You can do the same for the random map generator, just keep rotating maps manually the way you guys do every 2 days or something.

There. That is the solution that will allow solo players to play the game without getting stomped by teams.

So in this suggestion, people would only play as a team of 5 or by themselves. That would mean effectively disabling tournaments for people who want to play tournaments with a friend. Or two friends, or three friends, but don’t have a full team. I can’t imagine that would go over very well either.

So how do you plan to deal with people who wants to play tournaments with 5 friend, 6 friends, or 7 friends, or 8 friends, or 9 friends, or 10 friends, or 11 friends, or 12 friends……or 2013 friends. I am just curious.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

We of course understand that solo players would prefer a separate queue from premade teams, and it isn’t off the table as a future improvement. The trade off here, besides the extra development time, is that high rated solo queuers would get a better experience (never facing premades), at the expense of all team queuers getting a worse experience (longer queue times)

So you are basically saying that: The interest of Solo queuers should to be sacrificed to fix a problem having by Team queuers? I dont understand what kind of logic is this.
A Solo queuer paying the same amount of $$$ as a Team queuer, correct?
There are way more Solo queuer than Team queuers, correct?
So why Anet is treating Solo queuer as a group of second class customer, and sacrificed their interest for Team queuers?
How about do an in-game vote/survey on this issue and see who is the majority? Solo queuer or Team queuers.

Sanis.1096:

Arken.3725:

Usually if it’s a true pug vs. pug, then strategy is thrown out the window but I see what you’re saying.

so it’s just normal 5v5 hot join? sounds like fun… i think i will continue my break

No it is not just normal 5v5 hot join. A few key differences: (1) There is a reason to win instead of just zerging for glory points. (2) Most games have balanced player number on each side (3) No auto-balancing nonsense.
Those are the things that makes it fun to play comparing with the stupid hot join. It actually starts to get closer to GW1’s random arena.

sPvP fails because they don’t even get the basic structure to support PvP. It is not about balance, map, or game types. All we really need to get the PvP community growing are: Separated Solo Q – Solo ladder and Team Q – Team ladder.
Such a simple and standard concept. It is astonishing that they still don’t get it.

Skyro.3108:

I just think the whole “premades stomping on PUGs” issue is overblown if the matchmaking system is implemented well (which remains to be seen). If the solo q playerbase is sufficiently large, then solo q’ers won’t be running into premades anyway.

What you’re really asking is “I’d rather wait longer in the queue instead of going up against a partial premade” or something to that effect. Now sure some people would rather wait, but I don’t think the entire playerbase think that way. Plus I’m sure there are lots of people with just 1 or 2 friends they regularly play with, what game mode do they go to?

The point is if the playerbase is sufficiently large, you don’t need a hardline b/w solo queue and full premades because the matchmaking system should be able to match you up accordingly.

There is no such thing as " “I’d rather wait longer in the queue instead of going up against a partial premade”. Solo Q should always be fast enough. Just log into to GW1 and check the random arena. It still has <1min Q time.

Skyro.3108:

Gilgamesh.2561:

Skyro.3108:

Gilgamesh.2561:

I thought ANet said the match-making system would preferentially match single-queues with other single-queues? If that’s the case then it should be perfectly fine.

Correct, but it’s only going to appease those in the lower brackets. If you’re a PuGer and you reach a high enough bracket, there might not be enough solo players to pair you with, and you’ll be faced with premades. You’ll hit a wall with nowhere to go.

Until the queues are entirely separated, creating an environment that skilled PuGers can compete fairly in even the highest tier ladders as they do in League of Legends, the system is flawed.

I honestly do not see that as a problem at all. A pug’er will never reach the highest levels of competition because they don’t have the team coodination/chemisty to ever actually get that highly rated. There’s not going to be some super duper skilled pug’er that is in a league of his own where no other pug’er is in his bracket or something, provided of course the playerbase is not abysmally small (which may very well be the case, but then you got much bigger problems than this anyway).

You’re misunderstanding.

There would be two ladders:

- Team
- Solo

Solo queued players only face other players who queued solo. PuGs vs PuGs.

Team queued players only face other teams who queued team.

That way teams can compete to their hearts content against each other and rise in the team ladder. Individuals can compete against PuGs to their hearts content and rise in the solo ladder.

Players can and should play both. Solo means it’s personal, your ladder ranking is for your player. Team means your ladder ranking is associated with your team.

There would need to be a check to prevent teams from queuing solo queue at the same time and gaming it.

Yeah if the playerbase was sufficiently large that would indeed be the way to go. I think a lot of what ANet has been doing lately is testing different matchmaking systems and seeing how the playerbase responds. I don’t doubt that that may very well end up being the system we end up with if the playerbase ever picks up steam.

Playerbase for Solo Q is always sufficiently large. Never a problem for pretty much any game. It is true that Playerbase for Team Q may not be sufficiently large. Team Q may take a long time to pop. But I don’t see why Solo Q people have to be punished because Team Q does not have sufficient Playerbase. PuG stomp by premade do no good to the Playerbase of the game. It just drives ppl away.

A perfect solution to this:
For solo queue games, winner team stay for the next match, loser team out and disband. If a solo queue team made 5 consecutive wins, treat it as a premade team and match it with teams from premade queue thereafter.

Sounds familiar?

JonathanSharp.7094:

As others have said, splitting the queue’s entirely can be bad. But it also means solo’s always play solos, and teams always play teams.

There are pro/cons to both options. We’re watching your debates/points and in the end, we will try to make the best system for the game’s health.

SAtaarcoeny.8476:

so all 8 teams play yes? then 4 are kicked out the game (stupid idea for a game were u have to wait for 1-3 hours to play paid) then 2 more kicked out then 1 winner?

so 2 teams get to practice all 3 maps against good teams great but stupid for the other 6 teams.

how about the 8 teams play 4 lose then the 4 winning teams go against eachother in 2 legacy maps. but lets have the 4 losers go against eachother in leagacy also.

then the 2 winning legacy teams play for 1st and second place in kylo like normal but have the 2 losing teams play in kylo for 3rd and 4th place.

then from the losing side the winners of legacy play for 5-6 place and the losers play eachother for 7-8th place in kylo.

lets record in stats what places ppl get from 1-8th place (most ppl will play just for bragging rights)

1st place = 120 gems
2nd place =100 gems
3rd place = 80gems
4th place = 70gems
5th place = 3 tickets 20 gems
6th place = 3 tickets
7th place = 2 tickets 10 gems
8th place = 2 tickets

What they need to do is to remove the whole Tournament thing completely. Not to make it more complicated.
The whole idea of requiring 8 teams 40ppl together to even begin playing is pathetic. It creates a totally unnecessary barrier for people to even think about playing it. Adding another “Paid” barrier there made it worse. Adding more complicated rules will make it even worse. Just get rid of it altogether and make something that is simple and straightforward to play with.

sPvP failed because they started this bad idea of trying to organize it like some kind of FPS. The plain fact is that MMORPG is not FPS and does not play like one. It is bound to fail.
sPvP formats have to be completely overhauled. Just copy paste what LOL has would be a easy solution. The problem right now is that they don’t want to admit the failure and still trying to save the dead horse.

Sprawl.3891:

the whole hot join/auto balance system just sucks, period. This is not a FPS and does not play like one. Why people are making comparisons to TF2 and BF is just laughable. Matches take a short period of time and the glory grind is endless so crying about potentially losing out on a minuscule amount of glory because you may get DC’d is quite funny.

You should do like other MMOs and do single matches that start when teams are full, allow you to queue for the map you want (so I don’t have to leave a game every time I hit capricorn) and people who leave get a 30+ minute deserter debuff. And I played Rift for a while and never got deserter debuff for my comp crashing or getting DC’d they allowed a grace period that gave you plenty of time to re-join the match you were in.

Also there is no penalty for quitting tournament matches either, have had many matches where as soon as they realize it’s a premade or even partial premade people log off for 10 mins then come back leaving our team to a 5v4 steamrolling.

Exactly. The whole idea of mimicking some kind of FPS is why GW2 PvP failed so badly. It’s an MMORPG not FPS. 5 vs 8 in an FPS is totally fine. Camp a good position and you can head shot a lot of people. 5 vs 8 in an MMORPG will get you steamrolled and spawn camped.

nachtnebel.9168:

The Lost Shore patch divided the community and a lot of players are pissed cause Arena Net broke a very important promise. In addition, you now have to spend a lot of your time sitting in Lion’s Arch and spamming “lfg/lfm” if you want to do the new dungeon, which is the only way to get the best in slot gear. You can’t level your twinks if you are wasting your time spamming stupid text messages.

Agreed, I stopped playing when I saw this ascended crap. Gear treadmill sucks, spamming LFG sucks, and PvP is in a sad sad status. Can’t find a reason to log in anymore. Just got a WiiU and it is much funner thing to play with.

Rank itself should be the Reward, if it actually reflects player skills rather than just the length of mindless grind.
In other competitive game, such as SC2 and Super Street fighter 4, people enjoys to play just to improve their skills so that they can have higher rank to brag with and challenge stronger opponents. Sadly, this does not exist in GW2. The so called Rank is just a grindfest like WOW’s honor points.

Cogbyrn.7283:

How long are people willing to wait if they split queues into full pre-mades and non-full (you can’t only have single/duo queues, it will be 1 player through 4 players or 5 players)? How long do you already wait?

Also, if people are holding Jon to a certain level of professionalism, it’s only fair to hold everyone else to the same. He’s wrong via misinterpretation (and I think he should apologize, but that’s just how I handle things), but getting your jollies off of “calling the ANet guy out” doesn’t help the conversation, either.

Random Arena in GW1 has 30 sec Queue. Even right now.
You only need 5 × 2 =10 people to click Queue to start a non-premade ladder game. You need only 2 teams to start a premade ladder game. The whole tournament thing is silly. You need 5 X 8 = 40 people or 8 whole teams to start a tournament.
Just split solo queue and premade-queue ladder games, like pretty much every other games are doing. It is fine even without match making. People will be interested to join and there will be no long queue.

Full/High means the number of people that are Currently logged in that server. It drops from peak hours to off hours and then rise to the next peak hours all the time, every day. You can see it very clearly by yourself. I don’t understand why people are still popping this “full means the number of created account” non-sense.

Plushanubka.7280:

Ladder will not solve anything becouse number of teams playing paids is extemely low.

And Anet, why game support cant do anything with missed rewards for paids? I’ve lost my tickets and didn’t get anything becouse of gamebug, and support says they can do nothing with it.

Ladder will not solve anything because the whole idea of PAY to join a pvp game is just not appealing to the vast majority of people.
If GW2 tPvP ever wants to be a popular eSport, they need to make ladder games without requiring ppl to PAY. And then invite the top 100 ranked teams for Tournament at the end of every season.

Fellknight.4820:

The game currently feels as if they want you to die over and over again. I’ve never been a fan of riskless pvp, that is pvp where death makes you lose nothing. It turns pvp into a mindless grind instead of a test of skills.

Currently with this system there is no way for any class besides Thief and Mesmer to avoid dieing when 2-4 players converge on his face. Swiftness is currently +33% speed cripple is -50% speed and the game has given no other classes a way to escape whatsoever.

Now they have ground drop effects but in my opinion ground drop effects have always been worthless as a port escape tactic. Espeically in this game where the camera angle is terrible and small, and the radius of the ground drops are tiny.

Why are there no short duration long cooldown sprint abilities for some classes, why are there no blink type abilities that randomly displace a character.

Giving Necro’s flesh wurm teleport is also a joke of escape because you cannot prepare for an attack, thats like preparing for a car accident, you cannot predict when it will happen.

On my Thief or Mesmer I often go match after match without a single death, while my other characters are forced to die over and over agian without any viable way to escape attackers. And my thief and mesmer suffer nothing to get such an awesome ability.

This is literally the only MMO I’ve ever played that showed so much favoritism to 2 classes while leaving the rest out in the cold.

Below is a screenshot of my Thief coming in No.1 without even a single death during that match, only my Mesmer can also make that claim.

The real reason of the zergfest: There is no incentive to win in hot-joinable at all.
The best way to farm Glory points is to follow the zerg and run from point to point. So that is most ppl are doing.

tichorum.2415:

@ShRNA

You need to PAY to play in a PvP game because everyone gets rewarded for their efforts. It’s beyond MY understanding as to why people cannot understand the concept that paid tournaments are for those that actually work at PvP day in and day out to get better. Paids are for the best teams, not for pugs. That’s why there are free tournaments.

Everyone gets rewarded for their efforts in PvE dungeons and they dont need to PAY to start it.
Everyone gets rewarded for their efforts in PvE events and they dont need to PAY to start it.
Everyone gets rewarded for their efforts in WvW and they dont need to PAY to start it.
Everyone gets rewarded for their efforts in GW1 GvG and they dont need to PAY to start it.
Everyone gets rewarded for their efforts in WoW arenas and they dont need to PAY to start it.
The best teams are defined by their rating and ranking, not by PAY.

Warrior with rifle can 1 shot probably 20% ppl in WvW, from 1500 range. If you like sniper style, warrior is a good choice.

Hotjoin: No real rank/rating system, no match making, no incentive to win, mindless zerg is not fun.
Free Tourney: No real rank/rating system, no match making, PUG vs Premade, not fun.
Paid Tourney: Why I need to PAY to play in a PvP game is beyond my understanding. Still no real rank/rating system, no match making, not fun.

Those are the major issues that makes sPvP not fun. All other bugs and balance issues are minor.

CharrGirl.7896:

Thanks guys:)
Yeah I see now, I do think it’s a bit narrow. But my biggest bother is the draw distance – simply too low even on ultra settings. I was standing on top of ebonhawk fortress and the wall on the other side was fading and blurred out. Can it be more like tera? You could see the entire landscape.

I do think GW2 need to give more draw distance range.
However, Tera is a really realy poor example……. It has essentially 40yd draw distance max….. Anything beyond that is merely 2D CGs or even plain photos………

Wargrimm.5973:

When you hit lvl 80 and see how things are going on, the game feels more like a single player game, where you go from 1-80 and there is nothing that requires a need for group nor guild, I know the game is still young and needs time to develop but at the moment I think the philosophy of ArenaNet is not so good especially regarding to PvE….

In WoW, you go from 1-90 and there is nothing that requires a need for group nor guild. I know that game is old and had time to develop but at the moment I think the philosophy of Blizzzarrd is not so good especially regarding to PvE.

Kendu Kuzal.3985:

I think Algreg summed up the majority of it. Once balancing is better, and we have the elements above, GW2 will have the necessary ingredients. All the basics are there, it just needs the polishing and actual framework for ladders and GvG.

I don’t really consider GW1 as comparable to GW2 as some people would like to think though. The basic elements are the same but it isn’t anywhere near the scale or complexity of GW2. I don’t even really consider GW1 and MMORPG. It was much more linear, shorter and drove you into PvP almost exclusively.

I would call GW1 a Competitive Multiplayer Online Game with RPG elements and I would call GW2 a Massively Multiplayer Online Roleplay Game with competitive elements.

Similar, but you can see the slight difference. I think GW1 was more E-sport oriented from the start.

GW1’s Battle Isle and GW2’s Mist are exactly the same thing with different names. What happens there stays there, nothing to do with the PvE part of both games. In GW1, at least PvP and PvE gears are the same. In GW2, you cant even use PvE gear in Mist and the PvP gears have different stats from their PvE conterparts.

AlexanderFaust.4518:

Kendu Kuzal.3985:

Just to clarify, I think GW2 has the POTENTIAL to be an E-Sport type of game.. I don’t believe it is ready NOW though.

Ah, but see that’s the point of the topic

What would you like to see “done” to help push ANet in the right direction?

Granted, all ideas need to be tempered against the GW2 philosophy ~ most easily found in their Manifesto ~ http://youtu.be/35BPhT-KI1E

The easiest way to turn GW2 into eSport: Copy paste what they had in GW1.

GW1 has the best esport feature among all MMORPGs, even until now.
Somehow in GW2, they decided to give up the established model entirely, start from scratch and try to mimic some sort of FPS. A decision that I can not understand.

Sky.9347:

Diage.6451:

Sky.9347:

I played GW1, but I wasn’t in an elite guild or anything. I loved PvP, and I watched a LOT of GvG.

I prefer GW2, because before long these technical issues will go away and the team will have time to bring the things that kept you in GW1 forward.

Keep in mind, all of these features have to be re-programmed from scratch.

That’s why we gave them 5-6 years… And the argument is, it takes 5-6 years to get to a place that isn’t even half as far as the last place they were at (gw1 pvp.)

Because writing an entirely new engine for a MMO focused on PvP is easy, right?

GW2’s engine is in fact far more PvP focused than GW1. The problem in GW2 PvP is the format of organization, not engine at all.
For some reason, they decided to give up the highly successful formats in GW1, RA/TA/HOH/GvG, and tried to mimic some sort of FPS organization. It turned out to be a totally failure. GW2’s engine has tremendous potential in PvP. I just hope that them could realize the fact that they are heading to a totally wrong direction before it was too late.

voted
15 charrrs

Daays.4317:

There are more factors to consider than just time in game development.

You don’t know the quality of game designers. Their engineers. Their goals. How well management does in the company.

So let’s focus on what we do know. We know that in any game, if given the tools, the community will develop the game into a competitive state. It’s how games like Counter-Strike and DotA grew to where they are today.

If given the tools.

Arean Net has yet to give the competitive PvP community the tools needed to turn their game into an e-Sport.

And that’s all you need to know.

You don’t have to give community the tools. GW1 didn’t give tools to the community and it had the best e-Sport among all MMOs.

Rika.7249:

ShRNA.4376:

Rika.7249:

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

ShRNA.4376:

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

ShRNA.4376:

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

World of Warcraft’s Honor system wasn’t even patched in until 8 months after launch. Battleground’s weren’t launched until a month after that. Wanting new maps or modes barely a month after launch is ridiculous.

Gamer’s these days. What the kitten? Have some patience. That game the majority of you are basing your expectations off of didn’t even have a PvP system in place at this stage in it’s life.

This is 2012 not 2005. GW2 don’t compete with 2005 WoW, it compete with 2012 WoW and many other modern games on the same market.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

That’s a good one. Do you do standup? I’d like to come to one of your shows.

lololololol
That is a bad one. It is hard for you to argue against simple facts, isn’t it?

Simple facts? It took WoW 5 years of development and then 8 years on top of that to generate the amount of content it has now. That’s a fact.

Your logic dictates that all new MMO’s have to spend 13 years in development before launching just so that they have enough content to compete with “current” MMO’s.

Sorry, but it’s not going to happen. Players need to check their expectations against reality. Unfortunately, technology has not yet advanced so far that game developers can pump out exponentially more content in a short enough timeframe to keep up with the ADHD generation.

Game content takes a lot of man hours to develop. Until procedural generation becomes reliable enough to put a bunch of people out of jobs, we have to “cope” with MMO’s all launching with less content than established MMO’s.

From a marketing-competition point of view, he’s right.
Realistically though, he’s wrong. You can’t live up to WoWs level in the first blow. Over time however, definitely!

The reality is: GW2 compete with 2012 WOW not 2005 WOW. If you lose to 2012 WOW, you lose. Doesn’t matter if you blow 2005 WOW out of water or what.

There is no “winning” or “losing” as it would imply the end of either.
Both are succesful. WoW is just more succesful, in making the ca$$i$a$h.
It’s not like Guild Wars effectively needs to “beat” anyone. There are a lot of "if"s and "but"s to this whole picture.

How hard it is to just have a working ladder and separate Queues for premade and solo? We are talking about some litter system in sPvP not a whole triple-A MMO.

Obviously harder than it seems. The devs have done a great job in the game overall, so I doubt it’s taking this long if it was as easy to do as it sounds. Besides, for all we know, they might be having some additions. Knowing arenanet, that may very well be the case.

Even a webgame can incorporate those in one month, if they actually put it before some irrelevant paid stuff on their priority list.

Rika.7249:

ShRNA.4376:

Rika.7249:

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

ShRNA.4376:

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

ShRNA.4376:

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

World of Warcraft’s Honor system wasn’t even patched in until 8 months after launch. Battleground’s weren’t launched until a month after that. Wanting new maps or modes barely a month after launch is ridiculous.

Gamer’s these days. What the kitten? Have some patience. That game the majority of you are basing your expectations off of didn’t even have a PvP system in place at this stage in it’s life.

This is 2012 not 2005. GW2 don’t compete with 2005 WoW, it compete with 2012 WoW and many other modern games on the same market.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

That’s a good one. Do you do standup? I’d like to come to one of your shows.

lololololol
That is a bad one. It is hard for you to argue against simple facts, isn’t it?

Simple facts? It took WoW 5 years of development and then 8 years on top of that to generate the amount of content it has now. That’s a fact.

Your logic dictates that all new MMO’s have to spend 13 years in development before launching just so that they have enough content to compete with “current” MMO’s.

Sorry, but it’s not going to happen. Players need to check their expectations against reality. Unfortunately, technology has not yet advanced so far that game developers can pump out exponentially more content in a short enough timeframe to keep up with the ADHD generation.

Game content takes a lot of man hours to develop. Until procedural generation becomes reliable enough to put a bunch of people out of jobs, we have to “cope” with MMO’s all launching with less content than established MMO’s.

From a marketing-competition point of view, he’s right.
Realistically though, he’s wrong. You can’t live up to WoWs level in the first blow. Over time however, definitely!

The reality is: GW2 compete with 2012 WOW not 2005 WOW. If you lose to 2012 WOW, you lose. Doesn’t matter if you blow 2005 WOW out of water or what.

There is no “winning” or “losing” as it would imply the end of either.
Both are succesful. WoW is just more succesful, in making the ca$$i$a$h.
It’s not like Guild Wars effectively needs to “beat” anyone. There are a lot of "if"s and "but"s to this whole picture.

Market competition is all about “winning” or “losing”. If you keep “losing”, more and more people will just walk away and the game will practically die.

Rika.7249:

ShRNA.4376:

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

ShRNA.4376:

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

ShRNA.4376:

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

World of Warcraft’s Honor system wasn’t even patched in until 8 months after launch. Battleground’s weren’t launched until a month after that. Wanting new maps or modes barely a month after launch is ridiculous.

Gamer’s these days. What the kitten? Have some patience. That game the majority of you are basing your expectations off of didn’t even have a PvP system in place at this stage in it’s life.

This is 2012 not 2005. GW2 don’t compete with 2005 WoW, it compete with 2012 WoW and many other modern games on the same market.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

That’s a good one. Do you do standup? I’d like to come to one of your shows.

lololololol
That is a bad one. It is hard for you to argue against simple facts, isn’t it?

Simple facts? It took WoW 5 years of development and then 8 years on top of that to generate the amount of content it has now. That’s a fact.

Your logic dictates that all new MMO’s have to spend 13 years in development before launching just so that they have enough content to compete with “current” MMO’s.

Sorry, but it’s not going to happen. Players need to check their expectations against reality. Unfortunately, technology has not yet advanced so far that game developers can pump out exponentially more content in a short enough timeframe to keep up with the ADHD generation.

Game content takes a lot of man hours to develop. Until procedural generation becomes reliable enough to put a bunch of people out of jobs, we have to “cope” with MMO’s all launching with less content than established MMO’s.

If you cant read, I restate the simple facts:
This is 2012 not 2005. Correct?
GW2 don’t compete with 2005 WoW. Correct?
GW2 compete with 2012 WoW. Correct?

You don’t have reinvent the wheel when others have already done it many years ago. How hard it is to just copy paste some working models?

Harder than you imagine, I’d say. Otherwise we’d be swimming in successful triple-A MMOs. That’s not the case, however.

How hard it is to just have a working ladder and separate Queues for premade and solo? We are talking about some litter system in sPvP not a whole triple-A MMO.

Rika.7249:

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

ShRNA.4376:

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

ShRNA.4376:

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

World of Warcraft’s Honor system wasn’t even patched in until 8 months after launch. Battleground’s weren’t launched until a month after that. Wanting new maps or modes barely a month after launch is ridiculous.

Gamer’s these days. What the kitten? Have some patience. That game the majority of you are basing your expectations off of didn’t even have a PvP system in place at this stage in it’s life.

This is 2012 not 2005. GW2 don’t compete with 2005 WoW, it compete with 2012 WoW and many other modern games on the same market.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

That’s a good one. Do you do standup? I’d like to come to one of your shows.

lololololol
That is a bad one. It is hard for you to argue against simple facts, isn’t it?

Simple facts? It took WoW 5 years of development and then 8 years on top of that to generate the amount of content it has now. That’s a fact.

Your logic dictates that all new MMO’s have to spend 13 years in development before launching just so that they have enough content to compete with “current” MMO’s.

Sorry, but it’s not going to happen. Players need to check their expectations against reality. Unfortunately, technology has not yet advanced so far that game developers can pump out exponentially more content in a short enough timeframe to keep up with the ADHD generation.

Game content takes a lot of man hours to develop. Until procedural generation becomes reliable enough to put a bunch of people out of jobs, we have to “cope” with MMO’s all launching with less content than established MMO’s.

From a marketing-competition point of view, he’s right.
Realistically though, he’s wrong. You can’t live up to WoWs level in the first blow. Over time however, definitely!

The reality is: GW2 compete with 2012 WOW not 2005 WOW. If you lose to 2012 WOW, you lose. Doesn’t matter if you blow 2005 WOW out of water or what.

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

ShRNA.4376:

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

ShRNA.4376:

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

World of Warcraft’s Honor system wasn’t even patched in until 8 months after launch. Battleground’s weren’t launched until a month after that. Wanting new maps or modes barely a month after launch is ridiculous.

Gamer’s these days. What the kitten? Have some patience. That game the majority of you are basing your expectations off of didn’t even have a PvP system in place at this stage in it’s life.

This is 2012 not 2005. GW2 don’t compete with 2005 WoW, it compete with 2012 WoW and many other modern games on the same market.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

That’s a good one. Do you do standup? I’d like to come to one of your shows.

lololololol
That is a bad one. It is hard for you to argue against simple facts, isn’t it?

Simple facts? It took WoW 5 years of development and then 8 years on top of that to generate the amount of content it has now. That’s a fact.

Your logic dictates that all new MMO’s have to spend 13 years in development before launching just so that they have enough content to compete with “current” MMO’s.

Sorry, but it’s not going to happen. Players need to check their expectations against reality. Unfortunately, technology has not yet advanced so far that game developers can pump out exponentially more content in a short enough timeframe to keep up with the ADHD generation.

Game content takes a lot of man hours to develop. Until procedural generation becomes reliable enough to put a bunch of people out of jobs, we have to “cope” with MMO’s all launching with less content than established MMO’s.

If you cant read, I restate the simple facts:
This is 2012 not 2005. Correct?
GW2 don’t compete with 2005 WoW. Correct?
GW2 compete with 2012 WoW. Correct?

You don’t have reinvent the wheel when others have already done it many years ago. How hard it is to just copy paste some working models?

Hsulf.9370:

If the priority was

Ladder > private servers > spec mode

I’d have been happy with it.

But at the moment its

paid tournies > private servers > w/e next.

Which is not half as pleasing.

Right now is more like Paid >>>> Fun. That’s the root of the whole issue.

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

ShRNA.4376:

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

World of Warcraft’s Honor system wasn’t even patched in until 8 months after launch. Battleground’s weren’t launched until a month after that. Wanting new maps or modes barely a month after launch is ridiculous.

Gamer’s these days. What the kitten? Have some patience. That game the majority of you are basing your expectations off of didn’t even have a PvP system in place at this stage in it’s life.

This is 2012 not 2005. GW2 don’t compete with 2005 WoW, it compete with 2012 WoW and many other modern games on the same market.

Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

That’s a good one. Do you do standup? I’d like to come to one of your shows.

lololololol
That is a bad one. It is hard for you to argue against simple facts, isn’t it?

Yes. all they need in sPvP are a true ranking/ladder and separated free-T Queues for solo player and pre-made. Those should be easy enough to make. But they just ignore it, and keep to work on some Paid XXXX that nobody cares. Over-greediness is the only explanation that I can think of.

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

World of Warcraft’s Honor system wasn’t even patched in until 8 months after launch. Battleground’s weren’t launched until a month after that. Wanting new maps or modes barely a month after launch is ridiculous.

Gamer’s these days. What the kitten? Have some patience. That game the majority of you are basing your expectations off of didn’t even have a PvP system in place at this stage in it’s life.

This is 2012 not 2005. GW2 don’t compete with 2005 WoW, it compete with 2012 WoW and many other modern games on the same market.

My problem with the sPvP blog: Toooo much Greediness.
Payed Tournament and Payed customize games are all that was talked about.
I understand that Anet wants to make money, but this is the wrong way to do it. You really want to get a large number of ppl interested and involved in sPvP first before you start to make profit out of it. Not the other way around.
Right now, sPvP community is already dying, and all those Payed stuff is just going one step further to push people away. You cant make a profit if people are not playing.

ituhata.6830:

MMO with 9mil subscribers to pool from and a massive non-stop on every channel ad campaign manages to sell 2.7 mil. copies.

I suppose that’s not bad.

I found it quite amusing that Blizzard keep bragging about 10 mil subscribers while they claim 2.7 mil. sales. I am wondering where are the other 7.3 Mil subscribers? Are they all still paying to play at lvl 85 just to get facerolled by lvl 90s?

It is funny how OP can distort some simple facts.
GW2 sold over 2M within 2 weeks after release, despite the fact that their digital sale was halted just 1 week after release.
MOP sold 2.7 M 1 week after release. It is sold in many highly populated regions that GW2 is not, including Taiwan, south korea, etc.
Oh, and Activision Blizzard’s stock price just made a new 52 week low point today, 10.98$. Congratulations.

FarFarAway.6579:

ShRNA.4376:

The game is merely #2 best seller. I mean, 1 months after release and it can not stay as #1? Even MOP is hanging around #7 right now. You know, the game is surly dying.

You do realize that MoP players simply had to click a button on the Battle.net site to upgrade? The expansion was already patched in. Why on earth would they order it from Amazon?

You do realize that GW2 players simply had to click a button on the buy.guildwars2.com site to get a key and download the thing? Why on earth would they order it from Amazon?