Guild Wars 2

Small uptime now that the Grieving set is on gw2skills:
Viper vs Grieving comes down to 42.2% condi duration vs 42.2% crit damage (calculated on a full set of ascended).
Now I don’t play Engineer mind you, I play a ranger, but on ranger basically everything that applies conditions also deals power damage, so just because of that I think grieving might be the next best set for power/condi (a.k.a. hybrid) builds.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Skuzz.6580:

This might be a contender for a benchmark test honestly…

You can tweak that build to pull out a fair bit more damage imo. Sharpened Edges over Trappers Expertise for starters and Flame Trap over Spike Trap which is also a fire field to leap and finish, it’s a bit more damage and without the trait so you can use SE. Also, I think the Iboga/Tiger may be better pets for it, imo.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQRAsX3fnUqAtrg1sAuCCUtglCB7pLEtCAMDgSXqL/62dLvpIMLjHE-jRSBQBoVJIAeAAZ4gAkV1fGryvnqfwZHBgHcCA83+DkBwfMA-e

Thanks for your additions.
I had another look at it, and indeed Flame trap does more damage.
I didn’t calculate it well enough, and although having a 15k bleed proc on the trap seems much compared to a 2k burn (per pulse, so x3 = ~6k), but I didn’t account for the very big cooldown difference. Can actually use Flame trap 3 times for 1 Spike Trap, and flame trap also deals more power damage (logical right.. ).
And this was with the trap trait on (60% duration). Sharpened Edges is indeed more overall dps, maybe slightly less when using 2 or more trap skills but definitely not when using just 1.

I am just hoping Poison gets a bit more love, If Poison Master and Predator’s Cunning get buffed a bit then I can really see a Poison focussed build being a competitor with this bleeding focused build.
At this moment though it is really trying to figure out what 2 spec combo gives the most out of the following 3:
Skirmishing gives:
+ 20% crit chance (when flanking)
+ 250 ferocity
+ 33% more bleed damage
Tier 1 trait (Sharpened Edges)

Wilderness Survival gives:
+ 5.6% condi duration
+ 150 condi damage
20% skill recharge (this could actually be pretty big thinking about it)
+ 25% poison damage and a silly secondary
+ ~200dmg bonus on every poison application (Predator’s Cunning)
Requires: Using a dagger or torch in either hand, preferably on both weapon sets, meaning giving up on a superior Power configuration of Sword/Axe. You can still use either of these, like Sword/Torch + Dagger/Axe or something, or even dropping sword for Dagger / Axe + Axe / Dagger or Torch.

Beastmastery gives:
+80 power or condition damage (based on pet merge)
20% Shout cooldown reduction (Sic’Em, if we average Sic’Em @ ~20% dmg increase, this trait gives a 4% dps increase)
+ 550 Ferocity
?? Loud Whistle, if this works you get a 10% damage increase
Requires: Using axes, preferably on both weapon sets

And then there is the Grieving vs Viper comparison which comes down to:
Grieving: +42.2% crit damage (and 38 power through Sharpen Stones)
Viper: + 42.2% condi duration

With the ~90% crit chance we have when flanking if using Skirmishing the above makes Grieving deal 38% more damage on all Power attacks (basicly everything you do which gets even further enhanced by things like Sic’Em and Quickness on auto attacks, which more than makes up for the 4% damage difference from Viper).
Without Skirmishing this goes down to ~30% more damage so then it becomes a question if the other spec that replaced Skirmishing to pull its weight on the Power side of things.

I myself just don’t like Condi duration as a stat that much, I mean it is a damage increase pure and simple, but as with damage over time effects, when they fall off or the target dies before your dots fall off then you did not gain the full value from the stat, where is with more Crit damage, as long as you can keep hitting for most of the time you will guarantee that you have dealt the damage you invested in with stats.

This might be a contender for a benchmark test honestly:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQRAsX3fnUqAtCi1sAmrAUtglCB7pLEtCA5X3ub5lZCU6SdpMdQSxC-jRCBQBaV9nA8AAe2RAAAnAAyq8LtKBxy+DO7gAAV9DkBwfMA-e

This is a hybrid build, using Sword/Axe and Smokescale pet for the Power dps rotation (together with Sic’Em), and our old familiar Axe/Torch Condi setup, using a Lynx as pet and Sharpening Stone and Spike Trap as condi dps rotation.

This is a build that focusses on Bleed and Fire as condi dps, there is another build you can make that focuses on Poison, but since Predator’s Cunning probably does not do enough to warrant swapping either Beastmastery or Skirmishing to Wilderness Survival the above setup is probably better used.
If however our power damage can’t carry us (like the above tries to do with the vast amount of ferocity) then Wilderness Survival becomes more valuable (additional expertise + condi damage + poison damage).

Note from the above build, Beastmastery’s passive (80 stat increase) and Pet’s prowess are currently not calculated in the skill editor, meaning you get +300 ferocity and either +80 Power or +80 Condi damage (depending on pet you merged with of corse).
Besides this, obviously Vicious Quarry buff is not accounted for in the stats, fury brings your crit% to 71% and 81% if you are flanking and also the Ferocity buff on it.
So in short:
+80 power / +80 condi damage
+ 800 ferocity
+ 10% crit chance
+ 10% crit chance when flanking

Depending on how Loud Whistle trait works exactly we could even get +10% flat damage increase

Total stats with 25xmight and fury when flanking:
Power merged and power dps set / Condi merged and condi dps set
=====
3683 power / 3400 power
92% crit chance / 90% crit chance
284% crit dmg / 277% crit dmg
1993 condi dmg / 2405 condi dmg
0% condi duration / 10% condi duration (+10% condi dmg basically)

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Aomine.5012:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Now that there is more of a PvP/WvW/PvE split, there is no reason whatsoever that they cannot buff Ranger power damage significantly for PvE without making it OP in PvP/WvW.

They could make Fortifying Bond baseline, make all (DPS) pets work with Quickness, increase Predator’s Instinct to 20%, Steady Focus to 15%, Loud Whistle to 20% and then increase the power scaling to 1.0/1.0/1.2 for Sword AA chain and it would make a pretty huge difference for power viability.

They should stop buffing traits and just start reworking the inherit damage coefficient of Axe, GS, Sword, and Longbow. (And make LB piercing baseline at least so it’s not such a garbage weapon aside of picking off lone wolf in WvW)

We shouldn’t be all dependent on key traits to even do functional damage.

I agree with fortify bond baseline too because of boon target cap (5) and priority issue of boons distribution (boons always go on players first, so our pet may not even get the boons if 5 random guy is standing near me)

Seriously, introducing OP spec/ traits is NOT the way to go, and it only polarize and further pigeon-hole our build diversity.

Changing the power coefficient of our power weapon, making LB pierce baseline, and have fortify bond baseline is the only way to really save the power ranger.

PS: I really want to post this on Reddit because developers never read forum anymore. They only read and respond to Reddit now. But Reddit is such kittenous place that abuse the downvote system whenever you show them data that’d make them upset. (Even though is truth). The only post that’d get praised in that cancerous place are those pointless comedy posts that have no benefit for improving game at all.

You can’t make the weapons deal top DPS without also modifying the traits or you’ll end up with something absurd. The weapons themselves need the co-efficients increased (like I stated) but the traits also need a bigger increase, so that to deal the maximum damage from a build, you do need certain “key” traits. Why do you think tempest is at the top of the power list? Bolt to the Heart & Tempest Defense are +20% damage each. Harmonious Conduit, Pyromancer’s Training & Burning Rage are +10% each, Ferocious Winds & Empowering Flame for additional stats. On top of decent power scaling.

They are at the very bottom on anything other than a Big Hitbox target. really, keep Hitboxes in mind.
Condi’s don’t stack on the same hitbox if you hit multiple times, power cleave//AoE effects do, this is why Staff Ele is on the very top on Big Hitboxes, but at the very bottom on Small Hitboxes.

Can’t we just name it SBeast or something in short?
SB is already reserved to one of our core Condi weapons: ShortBow.

First come first serve :P

Aomine.5012:

Skuzz.6580:

People just see 300k numbers and go like " woaw, OP!" while in fact that big number does not mean anything.. Usually the bigger the number gets, the faster yoou simply stack damage in a timeframe, nothing more.
a 300k number that took you 15seconds to build up is still only 20k dps

No, when I say 30k dps, it means it’s static 100% uptime 30k.
Ironically usually the first sample of the number has the highest number, so need to take 5 sample numbers and take the average to get the more accurate result.

This is why I don’t care about people saying how Sick em increase our dps by insane degree, but ignore that it has long CD. Sick em will at best increase our dps by around 15% even if you use it on the big cool down skills.

I was not talking to you specifically Aomine, else I would’ve quoted you like I do now.
Generally, people see big numbers on the screen and think that equals high DPS, which it doesn’t.

About Sic’Em, no other UTILITY skill in the game does even close to the same amount of raw dmg% increase, let alone a whopping 15%+ flat, do you realise how nuts such a % actually is?
Its cooldown is short enought (shout trait + alacrity brings it to ~24ish sec, which makes it almost a 42% uptime, which turns this into possibly the most damaging skill in the entire game).
Lets round it to a 40% uptime given human reaction times that makes this: a flat 16% damage increase by just doing auto’s, if you combine that with skills like Axe#4 or other Big hitters that 16% goes way up, up into the 20%+ easy, if not in the 30’s.

Also for the PvP people here (I’m a PvE player) Sic’Em can NOT be boonstripped, nor can our stance effects (other than the boons they provide of course).

Bratec.7136:

Skuzz.6580:

You can play ranger perfectly fine, the dps people keep talking about, and it being 2×3 times lower than other is just a load of b/s. rangers are within the 29-33k range on benchmarks, which cover 90% of specs.

This is a dps testing for Petless Ranger in preparation for Soulbeast
Marksmanship: Steady Aim, Predator
Skirmishing: Sharpened Edge, Spotter, Vicious
Beastmaster: Two Hand Training, Honed Axe
Gears: Full Berzerker
Ascended Weapon with Sigil of Fire and Sigil of Force
Ascended Trinkets
Exotic Armors with Rune of Scholar
Utility: Signet of Wild (Not bringing Sharpened Edge because rangers will most likely bring spirits)
This test is assumed I have all boons and all class exclusive buffs/ banners/ spirits/ glyph/ alacrity
This test uses 6% + 3% power utility and 100 power 70 precision food. (No ferocity)
All Golems have 25 stacks of Vulnerability and Cripple
The test is taking 5 dps numbers from Raid Golem and take the average of that number
GS: 14864
Sword Axe + GS: 17612
Sword Axe: 20254
Sword Axe + Axe Warhorn: 20298
Axe Warhorn: 15217
Axe Axe: 18355
Longbow (1000+ range + Predator): 16779
Longbow (1000+ range + LtW): 14911
Longbow (melee range + Predator): 14797
Sword Axe + LB (Quick Draw): 17206
Sword Axe + LB (Vicious Quarry): 19379

p.s. To get Soulbeast, you are losing pet dps and one of 3 trees, all of them contribute to shown dps.

Have you actually read my whole response?
Did I ever name Power Ranger being in the benchmarks for rangers?
And you did a DPS test for Power? the one type we all know is just nowhere near as good as our actual benchmark dps spec: Condi

Also in preparation for PoF here are a few things:
- In PoF Sic’ Em alone (in its current form) ups your dps by 15-20% (25% uptime of 40% = 10% flat but since you can time this with your burst dps skills the 10% goes up to 15 or even higher, and this is without counting alacrity).
- Being in Beastmode is actually a slight dps increase over using a pet by sheer stats alone, Beasts abilities further increase that.
- Also don’t forget the 17% damage increase you get from Soulbeast traits.

I still think a hybrid build will find its place in the benchmarks, can’t quite test that out since we don’t have access to it right now (new gear stats)

People just see 300k numbers and go like " woaw, OP!" while in fact that big number does not mean anything.. Usually the bigger the number gets, the faster yoou simply stack damage in a timeframe, nothing more.
a 300k number that took you 15seconds to build up is still only 20k dps

A reminder: http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/ is updated for PoF

Don’t listen to the people suggesting rerolls and telling things you ’can’t do’.
You can play ranger perfectly fine, the dps people keep talking about, and it being 2×3 times lower than other is just a load of b/s. rangers are within the 29-33k range on benchmarks, which cover 90% of specs. there are a few specs that outperform everything in this 29-33 bracket, but honestly, nothing in this game needs that much optimising or nit-picking.

If you just want to do Open World PvE content, some Wvw, dungeons and fractals than you can play both a dps ranger, a support/dps druid and a support/heal druid. For WvW you even have a ’Bunker" druid build, which is basically a very tanky and durable build.

For gear while leveling:
- Just focus on getting gear with power +precision/ferocity gear (also known as Berserker stats/gear)
- I really liked the Greatsword/Longbow combination when leveling and still using it in Open World.
- Greatsword and Longbow are by no means our best weapons, but for Open World I rather either kill a target very quickly (Greatsword = Burst damage) or stay at a distance (Longbow)

Specs to unlock:
- I’d say if you go with a Greatsword/Longbow setup you’d want to go for marksman first, and go for skirmishing and beastmastery after that.

For skills while leveling:
- you will definitely want to get the Signet of the Hunt for a nice 25% movement speed boost (don’t use the signet, just equip it).
Adding to Signet of the Hunt, you can use Signet of the Wild for some more dps, or have Signet of Stone for some more defense while leveling
- While leveling it is very usefull to have a Stun Break abbility, the 2 best ones are Lightning reflexes (Survival), this breaks a stun, does some damage and evades you backwards, very usefull if you also have a Longbow as second weapon, so that you can Lightning Reflexes, swap to longbow, use longbow 4 (knockback) and use Longbow 2 right after that.
Another usefull stun Break is the Shout skill “Protect Me!”, this breaks you out of a stun , gives you protection and lets your pet taunt an enemy as soon as they hit you.

I myself still use Lightning Reflexes (also the better skill in WvW) because I like the evade backwards in combination with longbow as I described (you can also use a shortbow with the #3 skill for double backflips).

- The best Elite to use in Open World is “Strenght of the Pack!”

I hope that helped!
Just enjoy playing, don’t bother with min/maxing at this stage

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Skuzz.6580:

I get the idea you have, and although it’s very thematic I can’t stop but wonder why we’d want a shield? Rangers have been all about melee-mid range combat since release, we need something else

Why not this: Implement main hand spears into the game (2 handed), and make them ranged weapons (throwable spears). Make this weapon and it’s spec all about Critical damage.
It is honestly time we Rangers get a proper ranged power based build.

I do like this idea…

ps. See sig.

:D nice.
While yours focusses on melee combat, and I like that aswell (kinda phalanx like) I myself was thinging more in the lines of how a javalin amazon from Diablo 2 played like, throwing javalins like mad, with them splitting on impact dealing elemental damage, or have them pierce, stuff like that.

Anyway, all good ideas i guess, same with the warden from OP, I myself personally would just like a more ranged orientated ranger build, so that we have even more options (we alrdy have a ‘bunker’ build , a melee power build for fun and condi builds (which are mostly all based around being very close for traps and torch firefield etc.)

Bratec.7136:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

More of a reason to nerf Staff ele than to buff Ranger.

You can have reasons, i can have reasons, but with balance patches rolling (last one in August, recently), elementalist does 60k dps, while ranger struggles at 20k, as per tests in this topic.

the 60k dps must’ve been an AoE / Cleave fight. and/or a very short fight.
the highest benchmarked dps spec is an Air Staff Ele, which does ~37k dps single target on a big hitbox (able to hit the same target multiple times), on small hitboxes (single target, single hits) Air Staff is actually below Condi Ranger.

Actually overall its just a few specs that are overperforming, the vast majority of viable dps specs are between 29-33k dps.
Sure, this does not include a power ranger.. but we have a viable dps spec in condi, not to mention a condi druid brings alot of extra damage to the rest of the group if you choose to go condi druid over condi ranger.

I get the idea you have, and although it’s very thematic I can’t stop but wonder why we’d want a shield? Rangers have been all about melee-mid range combat since release, we need something else

Why not this: Implement main hand spears into the game (2 handed), and make them ranged weapons (throwable spears). Make this weapon and it’s spec all about Critical damage.
It is honestly time we Rangers get a proper ranged power based build.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Skuzz.6580:

OGDeadHead.8326:

Skuzz.6580:

You don’t need to “Theorycraft” anything, all it takes is looking at the numbers.
Dagger=1/4+1/2+1/2+1/4
Sword=1/2+1/4+3/4
Exactly the same 1.5sec for both.
Dagger might look slower because the middle 2 swings both take half a second, but they really are not

Try this next time:

Start the autochain vs a golem or whatever. Run 10 complete #1 chains from each weapon – time them – compare.

Come back and post your results after that, not after looking at the wiki for cast times. Thanks.

You are aware that we can not test these things right now? And if you yourself want to actually contribute you can watch WP’s or any other youtube video and time the dagger attack chain yourself.
From my personal experience playing the demo’s I did not feel much if any difference between the 2 attack chains. Considering dagger has 1 more attack in its chain it did not feel particularly slow to me.

Now let’s just step aside from this back and forth between dagger and sword/axe or what have you and get back to what the OP actually wanted to know, which is, what the Soulbeast’s role would be.
I am sure there will be a meta dps build including Soulbeast elite spec, whether that is going to be a power, condi or hybrid is still not sure.
I myself have high hopes for a Hybrid build at least.

I did the numbers on a Grievers D/A with Mad King Runes, cruelty sigil, Vicious Quarry, Honed Axes, Furious Strength, Twice as Vicious (30% uptime from Axe4) and traits/effects for 75% crit chance, 254% crit damage, 1243 condi damage, 2538 Power and the damage is significantly less than that of a core ranger with S/A, zerker and the MM/Sk/BM DPS build.

So, unless they improve some traits and the daggers themselves, core Ranger will remain top DPS for us. The hybrid may be fun to play, but Zerker Sword will still be DPS king.

Sorry, but now you are just speculating. And using an unoptimized build at that, for a hybrid setup.
Anyway, we will have to see what happens, but as it is right now, power damage is nowhere near that of condi, all i’m hoping for is something else than a pure condi build. May it be hybrid or pure power. Still I think a hybrid will pull ahead, and as much as you can try and speculate on the numbers, you simply can’t know the outcome.

(also you did not account for 25 stacks of might in that setup, which gives the hybrid/condi builds +750 condi damage, that a power build just does not benefit from)

OGDeadHead.8326:

Skuzz.6580:

You don’t need to “Theorycraft” anything, all it takes is looking at the numbers.
Dagger=1/4+1/2+1/2+1/4
Sword=1/2+1/4+3/4
Exactly the same 1.5sec for both.
Dagger might look slower because the middle 2 swings both take half a second, but they really are not

Try this next time:

Start the autochain vs a golem or whatever. Run 10 complete #1 chains from each weapon – time them – compare.

Come back and post your results after that, not after looking at the wiki for cast times. Thanks.

You are aware that we can not test these things right now? And if you yourself want to actually contribute you can watch WP’s or any other youtube video and time the dagger attack chain yourself.
From my personal experience playing the demo’s I did not feel much if any difference between the 2 attack chains. Considering dagger has 1 more attack in its chain it did not feel particularly slow to me.

Now let’s just step aside from this back and forth between dagger and sword/axe or what have you and get back to what the OP actually wanted to know, which is, what the Soulbeast’s role would be.
I am sure there will be a meta dps build including Soulbeast elite spec, whether that is going to be a power, condi or hybrid is still not sure.
I myself have high hopes for a Hybrid build at least.

Aomine.5012:

If you actually try the weapon, there’s no way you can claim dagger 4 hit speed is same as sword 3 hit. It’s definitely slower.
You’re just theory crafting numbers instead of doing the field test when it’s available.

I played Soulbeast all demo’s and stress tests, I did my fair share of testing in the ’ field’ .

You don’t need to “Theorycraft” anything, all it takes is looking at the numbers.
Dagger=1/4+1/2+1/2+1/4
Sword=1/2+1/4+3/4
Exactly the same 1.5sec for both.
Dagger might look slower because the middle 2 swings both take half a second, but they really are not

Heimskarl Ashfiend, I appreciate the calculations but how you got 981 vs 1050 (dagger/sword) is beyond me. The average damage of sword and dagger are exactly the same, averaging at 1000 on ascended gear.

Also all those calculations don’t take into account the 4% vul (or 8% if you have quickness) that the attack chain from dagger provides, sure sword has might, but you will be on 25 stacks of might anyway so that is useless).

Dagger is not a pile of crap like a lot of people seem to think is what I am trying to say. You won’t hear me argue against it needed a few tweaks here and there but to compleetly write it off.. nah.. not in my oppinion atleast

There is no condition scaling lol.. all conditions deal exactly the same damage all the time, its the duration and stacks that make some numbers apear so big compared to others.

Here a very simple example:
Dagger attack-chain#2 applies 1 stack of bleed for 3 seconds = 66 damage(3sec worth of bleed)
Dagger attack #2 applies 4 stacks of bleed for 6 seconds = 528 damage(24sec worth of bleed)
needless to say dividing 528 by the difference in seconds (24/3 =8) you get to 66.
You can do this for all conditions skills in the game.

now power does scale, and while it is lower on the dagger attack chain, dagger chain vs sword chain is only a difference of 0.5 over the whole chain (same duration chain), and that is not even counting the 4 vul stacks you can keep up with the chain and the condi damage it adds.
And this is why I said, dagger is a strong hybrid weapon, which it is.
Don’t even mention the range lol.. all daggers have a range of 130… which is the same as swords..
It’s attack chain is the same duration of that of sword, but doing 4 attacks instead of 3, so fast (hard math.. i know).
Funny that you mention gap closers.. sword only has one if you evade backwards first.. while dagger 3 is actually a gap closer (however small), and sure, it does not have evade’s, but you get quickness instead.

Moa Stance:
You obviously missed the 66% boon duration increase on Moa Stance… which is why I said it is probably the strongest boon skill in the game.

Doyak Stance:
If you even bothered to test the demo and stress test you would’ve figured out it is actually very easy to get this to work.. I guess you never tried out nature Magic (its 2nd minor).

You also mention 80% of the F2 and F3 skills being terrible. I am not sure we tried out the same demo here.. Or have you not even bothered to try out the gazelle, any bird or tiger? just to name a few.

And I hope you are aware that the biggest thing about soulbeast’s power actually comes from the passive stat increases you get when merged..

BadSanta.6527:

Skuzz.6580:

I have to disagree with most things the 2 people above me posted.

Soulbeast offers the ranger more than any other elite spec currently in the game does.
It gives you so many options, it’s a jack of all spec basically.

- For PvE condi and hybrid dps specs will use Soulbeast over Core ranger
- Power ranger could be a thing, but I honestly think Soulbeast was made with the new hybrid damage set in mind.

- I don’t know why you would think soulbeast is weak in roaming, if you think that you obviously haven’t looked close enought to the Beastmaster trait line and how it benefits Soulbeast greatly. Or how the shouts benefit you when in Beastmode.

- For WvW and PvP Bear stance has to be the best thing that could happen for rangers, you have an equal stun break trait as Druid’s CA has, stances and its mastery are actually very potent in WvW.

In general Soulbeast gives you a lot of options. How all that is going to play out in the end is just a guessing game, but you can’t look at soulbeast and think it is worse then a core spec, because it is not.

i really have to disagree with you , itried play power soul beast and in the end beside F3 and smock scale F2 its not good, no reasone to take stance
and as for condi no reason to take dagger … and stance

You are probably one of those people that stay in Beastmode all the time, thats where you went wrong.
Dagger has nothing to do with Soulbeast, it is not what defines Soulbeast, sure its the weapon you can use when picking Soulbeast but it does not mean you have to use it.
Also, people really haven’t looked at the dagger close enough. The power scaling on dagger skills is the same as sword, sword chain is same duration as full chain of dagger.
Dagger is a very nice hybrid weapon, applying vul, bleed and poison, aswell as having the same power scaling as our strongest power main hand we have access to atm (Sword).
Also don’t forget Ambidexterity (Wilderness Survival top trait) also states " Dagger", where normally we only had the choice of dagger offhand, we can now use a mainhand dagger and still gain this bonus, so you can have x/Torch on 1 weapon set and dagger/x on another (axe comes to mind for both x’s with Honed Axes traited)

Moa stance is one of the strongest boon skills in the game (probably the strongest actually)
Bear Stance is some much needed condi cleanse that ranger lacked on their heal skills.
Dolyak stance (when fixed) combined with the stance mastery is very powerfull in WvW.

Stances are Utility skills, you don’t need to use everything, or anything at that, they give you a lot of build options. And this is the same for the traits of soulbeast and the countless of pet/merge options.

So I think it’s best to agree to disagree because as you see I have my own thoughts on the effectivness of Soulbeast.

I have to disagree with most things the 2 people above me posted.

Soulbeast offers the ranger more than any other elite spec currently in the game does.
It gives you so many options, it’s a jack of all spec basically.

- For PvE condi and hybrid dps specs will use Soulbeast over Core ranger
- Power ranger could be a thing, but I honestly think Soulbeast was made with the new hybrid damage set in mind.

- I don’t know why you would think soulbeast is weak in roaming, if you think that you obviously haven’t looked close enought to the Beastmaster trait line and how it benefits Soulbeast greatly. Or how the shouts benefit you when in Beastmode.

- For WvW and PvP Bear stance has to be the best thing that could happen for rangers, you have an equal stun break trait as Druid’s CA has, stances and its mastery are actually very potent in WvW.

In general Soulbeast gives you a lot of options. How all that is going to play out in the end is just a guessing game, but you can’t look at soulbeast and think it is worse then a core spec, because it is not.

Dear Anet,

Let me start by saying that I am very happy about PoF, and that we don’t have to wait long for it.
But this is probably what also got most people worried at the same time.
With the past few demo’s and stress tests there have been countless of feedback topics and ideas going around, but no real communication back.

I think it would help the community immensely if you were to give some more insight into what is going on on your end, what you are working on, what changes you are working on.

Just in general, some better communication. It’s the 1 thing GW2 currently lacks, which is a shame.

Substance E.4852:

InsaneQR.7412:

Its called “greavers” if i am not mistaken.
Condi dmg
Power
Precision
Ferocity

I would take this for SB

Ya, given what happened with HoT stat sets, I would hold off on singing this stat’s praises until we know how easy it will be to get.

Could be as simple as diamonds or as bad as lilies.

Stat changing is a thing

Honestly, we will be doing open world for the first month, so I myself personally really don’t look at the fractal/raids meta at all, nor will we know how that turns out.
I do know that Soulbeast will find a place in some sort of DPS spec, druid will remain the go-to healing/support spec though.

Soulbeast leans itself perfectly for the new hybrid set coming out (power/prec/condi dmg/ferocity).
Especially looking at the Beast skills alone, merging with your pet gives you an ‘ultimate’ ability, this is either a power one, or a condi one (looking at the dps ones), they don’t share a cooldown so switching in and out of Beastmode and pet swapping to get your other ‘ultimate’ off is going to be very beneficial for your DPS, more so if your stats buff both aspects.

I personally can’t wait for PoF, Soulbeast is going to be so much fun!!! A real breath of fresh air honestly.

With Soulbeast in mind, all of the pet swap traits should be re-looked at honestly.
If they make swapping pets in Beastmode possible and work with pet swap traits than I think Poison master is going to be nice, kif not, then it is just it’s passive effect which honestly though, is quite powerful.

Aomine.5012:

Definitely Berserker because they have much more synergy than the Viper ones for SB.

Dagger sucks.

There is as much condi as there is power synergy, thats what makes SB great honestly, it gives you alot of options.
You are not locked into daggers, just because the weapon you unlock with the elite spec is not what you have hoped for(honestly, I think dagger mainhand damage wise is fine, it just needs a quicker attack chain) doesn’t mean you have to write a whole DPS style (condi) off.
Axe-Torch + ShortBow condi build will still be very good if not better than power. We really have to wait and see what happens, that’s why i suggested to keep your options open and just save up materials for a new ascended set and stick to exotcs until then (honestly the dps/survivability difference is not that big between these 2 rarities anyway)

Tea.2740:

Skuzz.6580:

In general, if you bought PoF, just create a lvl 1 ranger, boost him up, walk through the demo area and get a feel of the class, you can do the same for ele. Just make sure that you don’t commit your boost upon leaving the zone if you are undesided

I have a maxed ele and ranger already I’m just wondering which would be fun still with the specializations. I am leaning towards ele though. What is the current meta for them in terms for weapon and stats?

With the current Elite spec’s you are best of playing Ele, since Druid is all about them heals.
For PoF though, I think Soulbeast will be a lot more fun than the weaver. But that is personal preference, the amount of options you have as soulbeast are nuts.
Beastmaster core trait is almost a must though, at least for open world: Pet’s Prowess must be the most awesome minor trait available to us. It basically gives you 25% movement speed and a crit buff when you are in beastmode

Here is a list of abilities that work on the ranger when in beastmode: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Beastmode

As you can see, this alone opens up a lot of options that were not possible before (since then they would only apply to your pet).

Aomine.5012:

Skuzz.6580:

Soulbeast is the most diverse Elite spec in the game honestly, the amount of combinations that are ’ viable’ are nuts.
I’d play that over that godawful boring spec which is deadeye.

Also, just to get 1 thing clear:
To put it in LoTR terms, Legolas is not a Ranger, Aragorn is, what does he fight with? right, he fights with melee weapons and ranged weapons. It’s his diversity that makes him a fierce combatant.
Stop with the illusion of Ranger’s being Ranged classes..

As a sidenote, Deadeye is very thematic for an assassin class (which thief is), and it should deal more damage than a bow, plain and simple.

Have you fight against a range deadeyes in pvp before?
They’re meant to stall time before the Marks goes up.

It’s too early to tell whether Deadeye is bad for pvp or not.
Currently they’re not bad because of their range burst potential in conjunction with stealth. Plus most of their projectiles are unblockable.

I am not sure you reply-ed to the right person, since I never touched upon any of the points you addressed.
I don’t PvP so I could care less what a deadeye does or will do. My response was not about anything balance related, other then it is obvious for a ‘Sniper’ to do more damage than some bow user.

Soulbeast is the most diverse Elite spec in the game honestly, the amount of combinations that are ’ viable’ are nuts.
I’d play that over that godawful boring spec which is deadeye.

Also, just to get 1 thing clear:
To put it in LoTR terms, Legolas is not a Ranger, Aragorn is, what does he fight with? right, he fights with melee weapons and ranged weapons. It’s his diversity that makes him a fierce combatant.
Stop with the illusion of Ranger’s being Ranged classes..

As a sidenote, Deadeye is very thematic for an assassin class (which thief is), and it should deal more damage than a bow, plain and simple.

One thing I would say is that with PoF it is unclear of ele’s will be going weaver or tempest, where is rangers are definitely going to be playing as Soulbeasts (their new elite spec).
We will rely less on pets themselves but rather care about the abilities of the pets which we gain access to when we mend with them (beastmode).

Rangers are far less flashy than ele’s, and we will probably end up playing hybrid specs (power/condi combined). If your goal is to be the top dog on the dps meters for raids however then ele is your best bet.

In general, if you bought PoF, just create a lvl 1 ranger, boost him up, walk through the demo area and get a feel of the class, you can do the same for ele. Just make sure that you don’t commit your boost upon leaving the zone if you are undesided

There is going to be a new attribute set in PoF that is a hybrid of berserkers and viper’s, which is looking pretty solid.

I would just wait on crafting ascended really, just save reagents in your bank for a full set of ascended armor, weapon and save your laurels for jewelery.

Just hope either a hybrid or berserkers is going to be the new thing, because viper playstyle is pretty darn boring honestly, especially for open world, you are better off going power for that anyway.

Generation 1 Elite spec’s were just far too powerful, meaning if a new Elite spec comes out it better performs far better than the other Elite spec on some areas of the game or it will get complained about (which is the case for almost all new Elite specs).

They should honestly revisit Gen 1 Elite specs, tune them down a bit and nerf condi damage, nerfing condi should be easy because all condi damage uses the same formula, so just changing the scaling number on them reduces their damage all at once, simple as that, either that or make armor/toughness matter vs condi damage.

Aragorn will always be my #1 ranger

This has to be the most toxic post on the forums right now..
It started as a whine topic and it basically turned into a bash topic.

Put your feedback down if you like, reply to that person’s feedback if you like, but there really is no need in keeping on calling people out for their opinions or how they ‘think’ things were intended by the devs or how not, we simply can’t know this unless someone has a video clip or post from them saying how Elite specs were really meant to be implemented.

Levetty.1279:

Well theres the problem isn’t it. You have two choices Durzlla

1) Elite Specs are better then core: Mirage is useless because its weaker then core Mesmer.

2) Elite Specs are sidegrades to core with new ways to play: Mesmer already has better tools to dodge while attacking, Mirage adds no new ways to play.

Are we playing the same game?
1) Mirage is better than any other SINGLE core trait line, obviously, it is not stronger than 2 or 3 combined.

2) Am I the only one who sees ambush skills, a whole new set of abilities only available to Mirage, as well as a whole new dodge mechanic being introduced to Mirage only. ooh and access to an Axe??

Just because it is not on your Chronomancer Elite Spec level doesn’t mean it is worse than a core or does not give new things to play with..

You are just so short sighted.. but i guess that is a natural response when being disappointed

Please read or research things before assuming guys..
The trait in question simply does the following:
When your hp% is higher than your enemy your conditions on them last 10% longer and ALL damage you deal to them is increased by 10%.

I agree, they did a horrible job at tooltips.

and? Where does it say that this Elite spec should out damage a core spec and out evade another?
Elite specs are not meant to be far superior than other core specs, so yes, probably another core spec has more evades, another has more damage, Elite specs are meant to open more options and diversity, not give you an overpowered version of other core specs.

Pro tip: If you like Blurred Frenzy that much, just use it when specced into Mirage??

OGDeadHead.8326:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Aomine.5012:

…All it gets is a 10% modifier that will never work on any boss.

How do you figure this?

Probably because most bosses worth mentioning have millions of health, so by the time this trait kicks in, the boss is dead anyway.

You are aware that this is based on % of health right?, not actual amount..
If you are 100% hp and the boss is 99% you get the 10% dmg boost.

I’ve read through a lot of feedback and other ideas to improve this class, and I believe that changing this little thing I have an idea about could potentially make a big impact on the overall playstyle and how fluent it is.

Basically, my idea would be:
When you pick up a Mirage Mirror it gets stored (new mechanic, think of it like 3-5 empty mirror icons above your dodge bar that can be filled up by picking Mirrors up).
When you dodge roll while too low on endurance to do so it will instead consume a Mirror charge and activate the dodge roll action.

essentially how this plays out is that you dodge a few times (making sure you have enough endurance so that your mirrors don’t get consumed yet), storing up Mirrors in the meantime, and then do a big dodge chain consuming all your accumulated mirrors in fast succession for a lot of ambush triggers in a short window.

A different approach is to give you another F ability to consume the mirrors manually instead of relying on being Endurance starved before they get automatically consumed.

You can do a lot of cool things with these charges on a lot of different skills or traits, you can for instance get a stacking buff increasing clone/illusion/ambush damage by x%, adding a stack when you ‘consume’ a Mirage Mirror charge.

I just feel Mirage Mirrors should be a far bigger mechanical part of Mesmer, there is so much room for creativity here.
Grabbing Mirrors to evade just seems weird and a lot of times counter intuitive.

Just an idea of course

Does calling out WP in your title get you more views? I would guess so because I really don’t see why else such a pointless topic get this much attention.
This is essentially a bash the famous youtuber topic, it is almost as someone is very angry with something..

Learn to post your own feedback instead of bashing on someone else his feedback, or in this case a presentation…
New people, or returning people watch his video’s because he explains a lot about the class/spec, even if not 100% correct all the time, it gives those viewers a general idea of what is going on.

If you want theorycrafting/pro’s talk about elite specs, then go elsewhere. Just leave WP alone

There really is no reason to supply feedback from a stress test about a Class/Spec, a stress test is about testing server performance, nothing else.

It was very highly unlikely that they would have another build active, so obviously the same things that were the case 2 weeks ago are still the same for this test, and thus, no need to ‘complain’ about.

But my opinion, I think Soulbeast is awesome, yes it could need a few tweaks here and there, but overall I am just glad I can play something else than druid or core ranger.

TheSlothArmada.6709:

Skuzz.6580:

TheSlothArmada.6709:

Cylokin.2560:

Blackwaltz.7156:

And for pve it’s most limited class. It’s either Condi or GTFO.

This is the case with most classes nowadays though.

Yeah, but at least other classes like ele, guard, and theif get a choice ;-;

I am a ranger, And I am glad that after 2 years I might actually be able to play a Power build once again.

You guys have not even played Spellbreaker in PvE, I would not be surprised that Boons might actually make an appearance on PvE mobs in PoF this would make spellbreaker even stronger than it already potentially is for PvE

Spellbreaker already has almost no potential for PvE. . .

Some people will never see the strength of a Spekittenil someone makes a meta build about it on a website..

So here is what Spellbreakers have in PvE:
- Acces to Offhand dagger, which is the strongest power based offhand weapon available for warriors.
- Pure Strike gives you about ~220 ferocity on boonless targets
- Attacker’s Insight gives you 300 ferocity and 300 POWER (which equals 10 additional stacks of might)
- Depending on what Full Counter all procs on, this Burst can be very strong, it’s damage is that of an Eviscerate lvl 1 (note that all bursts are lvl 1 when specced spellbreaker so its basically equal). But more important, Full Counter resets ALL Burst skills, not just the one on your current weapon set, i think people really underestimate this.

The difference between a lvl 1 and 3 burst = 50%, with Spellbreaker’s Full counter proc you actually get 100% bonus out of them (since you get 2 bursts off instead of one).
This also synergises very well with any Burst traits, as they will proc twice as much as they would on other specs, and you don’t have to worry about adrenaline for these at all!

TheSlothArmada.6709:

Cylokin.2560:

Blackwaltz.7156:

And for pve it’s most limited class. It’s either Condi or GTFO.

This is the case with most classes nowadays though.

Yeah, but at least other classes like ele, guard, and theif get a choice ;-;

I am a ranger, And I am glad that after 2 years I might actually be able to play a Power build once again.

You guys have not even played Spellbreaker in PvE, I would not be surprised that Boons might actually make an appearance on PvE mobs in PoF this would make spellbreaker even stronger than it already potentially is for PvE

Longbow just does not work well with melee weapons in a competitive environment (it has its uses in WvW and Open World of course) simply because when in close proximity for your ‘main’ weapon set, swapping to Longbow (which requires max range to be even close to ‘competitive damage wise’) is just a DPS loss.
If they got rid of the damage numbers on ranges and just made it do its top damage at all ranges then it could be viable, but as is it is just counter productive.

I honestly think Soulbeast is going to be the wet dream for melee/medium ranged rangers, and we will probably have to wait for a next expansion to get a proper ranged elite spec.

I really hope they implement new weapons next expansion that we have never seen before. A throwing spear weapon would be so awesome honestly! Amazon being the Elite spec name

With PoF coming in under a month, I really wouldn’t put much effort into trying to go for Raids honestly. It might require you to gear differently when if PoF hits things might be different again.

Just stick with what you enjoy in Open World and Fractals, find a guild to play with that are not that meta focussed and just have fun playing what you enjoy.

Also, with rerolling thief, keep in mind that PoF thieves will probably be ranged only, bear that in mind when you make your descision on a new lvl 80

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Then, GS rules supreme for open world PvE because it is burst oriented not DPS, otherwise it is rubbish.

I think you missed the point here.. I was talking about GS in PoF with Soulbeast in mind, a lot changes for GS in Beastmode, as I described.
With Soulbeast in Beastmode you get:
- Stat bonuses gain from Pet when going in Beastmode will amplify GS’s bursty nature even more
- Maul will give Opening Strikes to yourself when in Beastmode
- ‘Sic Em’s 10sec burst window escalates quickly with a GS equipped
- Beastmaster’s passives that normally apply to pets will apply to you in Beastmode which again, further amplifies the damage

GS’s playstyle with Soulbeast just comes down to you swapping to GS when ’ Sic Em is up, when ’Sic em is on cooldown you swap to your other weapon set (which has a better overall stable dps). A 10 sec burst window with GS however will increase your overall DPS drasticly

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Skuzz.6580:

The question remains, what spec would we drop in favor for SBeast?
Beastmastery becomes a must basically, since Loud Whistle and Pet’s Prowess should benefit you when in Soulbeast mode, which is huge.

The question simply is, will GS be worth it (if so, then Marksmanship becomes the better option with access to a lot of opening strikes (maul granting opening strikes to yourself) and ’Sic Em being very strong in combination with the High Burst potential from GS).
If axes are the better option than it pairs best with Skirmishing (Sword/Axe, Axe/WH).

For what game mode?

Anything PvE related

The question remains, what spec would we drop in favor for SBeast?
Beastmastery becomes a must basically, since Loud Whistle and Pet’s Prowess should benefit you when in Soulbeast mode, which is huge.

The question simply is, will GS be worth it (if so, then Marksmanship becomes the better option with access to a lot of opening strikes (maul granting opening strikes to yourself) and ’Sic Em being very strong in combination with the High Burst potential from GS).
If axes are the better option than it pairs best with Skirmishing (Sword/Axe, Axe/WH).

Thanks for the testing!
I was looking at power scalings myself on weapons and the 2 that stood out were WH#4 and Axe#5, have you perhaps tried out Sword/WH + Sword/Axe and if Quick draw actually makes a difference for this swapping?
Also might i suggest Flame Trap as 3th Utility for fire combo’s: leap (sword#2) blast (WH#5) and whirl (Axe#5).
I also assume you are using “We heal as One”, especially when you use WH#5 using Heal skill shortly after will increase Might stacks even more.

It is clear that Sword main-hand is just the superior Main-hand to use in a power build at this time (thanks to Predator’s Onslaught having a 100% uptime), with sooulbeast in mind however, things might change quite a bit.

I actually have a feeling Power will outperform Condi, simply because unlike before we can now boost our personal power dps by ways we could not before (applying buffs to pets being applied to ourselves when in Soulbeast form).
Also, Power based Soulbeast F abilities are generally stronger and have more off than we do Condi.

We also get a lot more quickness which Benefits power more than it does condi.

I have a feeling the underused weapons of Greatsword, Axe offhand, sword main-hand , possible even Longbow! will see a lot more play in PoF, which I really like.

Even if condi would be slightly ahead in the end I personally will swap to power, the gameplay alone is far more engaging than seeing dots tick honestly.

So one of the main weapons of the top ranger spec from HoT needs a buff? say what now?

I’ve been playing SB ranger for some time now, and I honestly think it is in a good spot.
Short Bow #2 skill is just so strong (I hope you are aware this can stack on 1 target if you are close enough)
Short Bow #4 and #5 are CC skills, and #3 is combined with #2 a much-needed mobility skill.