Guild Wars 2

Came to see how thieves were doing after a good bunch of months, see its mostly the same thieves getting kicked in the balls plus even some “anti stealth” stuff, and warriors with even more faceroll buffs.

Gone again.

graverr.6473:

Troma.3250:

@Chems: first time i see a leak of your serv, so i tell you. Fair-play > *

Here is the SFR next weeks spreadsheet in advance Troma.Might spare your spies some trouble :P

Excellent work. Where is us jump puzzle campers tho?

I do find it slightly sad that what started as a question about arenanets direction (or lack of) with the thief has ended up with a ‘im more pr0 than you’ kitten derailment.

> 2. You claim D/D and GC are noob builds

They are cheesy, gimmicky builds.

> What you fail to realize is its not. That is easy mode.

Done both. Three shotting someone with no skill required is easymode. The recent change to stealth, among other things, has mathematically made stealthy non burst builds even worse over time in comparison with gc ones, trait wise and in effective actions per minute.

Saying D/D GC is “pr0” doesn’t make you a good player. It IS easymode.

a) They wanna reduce the thief population and will drive it to the gutter until goal is achieved.
b) They have no clue what effect the changes they do have beyond the directly immediate.
c) They will nerf without any regard to side effects and believe it’s not that big of a big deal and they can always fix what was broken later.
d) We are all wrong and nerfing at least a trait line, 1, 5, the reduction in dps, the reduction in survivability, the possible reduction in initiative (and thus actions), is correct and we fail to understand how little impact it has.

Which one is it?

The cadence of the shots puts me to sleep…

Adaneshade.2409:

- S/D “not alot of damage” … rofl, I’m in full on soldiers gear and still pump out 12k + in a burst with this build, stealth is only used to set up an interrupt…chaining stealth one after the other isn’t really required, OR the best way to play this even now

A burst in S/D? You need to practice your trolling.

Everyone will just hop on to D/D. Do the rotation, dodge, dodge, disabling shot, SS, etc bye bye. Nerf to stealth? Second best thing in the list is just not be there anymore. Which is what glass D/D does. Hard to see where all this is going to remove the skillless rotation macroers. If anything it turns everyone into one of them.

Daeqar.8965:

\Why use Glass on Glass numbers though?

Glass D/D >>> ALL.

Ah well, yett another nerf to my S/D build where it will end up in a worse position than the rest.

Removing the orbs did not stop hacking. Removing the orbs only made hacking less obvious. But it is there, much like when you try to shove your kitten under the rug. Still there. Rotting.

For the little I play lately I must say so far it has been amusing. What will it be next time? Yet another guy permarunning at swiftness speed without buff? Jumping in mid air in what look like small teleport steps in the air?

But allies are most entertaining too. Take for example this The Sky Hunter guy trying to kill his allies by costume fearing them down cliffs. Or Gyroxz from this ART guild he was proclaiming to be the best ever and how we should virtually suck his male appendage as well as other general abuse or transfer to another server, referring to currently not really active in GW CIR. Then two of us fell down, got killed after a while as he watched and laughed, just for him to die shorty after because, oh look, you are now badly outnumbered. Or this other guy from who apparently thought it was my duty not only to go and help him, which I did, but to suicide in a vain attempt to get him up and ended up raging on map and told to shut the kitten up.

There’s a couple of nice players here, but there’s soooo many mentally challenged people. If this is representative of what goes in zerg vs zerg, I guess it was true that desolation only won because of numbers.

Or maybe arenanet sees that they can squeeze more money out of pvers and thus ignores wvw. until they see the danger lights ahead. Or maybe arenanet did not want to but nexon “directed” them to. After all it’s when they changed the dyes from “we know its a pain to do per character so they are going to be account available” to “kittenLOLOLOL”.

What other explanation can there be for complete wvw inactivity after all these months? It’s not like the people fixing the culling are the ones doing game design, and it’s not like they haven’t had enough time to figure it is popular even if they were blind in beta.

Usually its a feedback issue. The abilities tend not to be that responsive so instinctly you press it again thinking it hasn’t gone through.

I like how the whiners continue to spew the “can’t see the thief opening waah waah” line. Not only the thief is visible, but it is the same as if a gs warrior decided to leap on your back and go kittenolol.

Shhh. Lets just wait quietly for a bit until the QQing about how they died to a thief because of the zomg 50%! starts showing on the forum.

ZLE.8293:

Relentliss.2170:

Yeah I feel if Thief is not fixed soon it may have a detrimental effect on WvW, where I’ve seen people log out quite often recently over thieves.

Omg,those thieves will ruin the game,mark my words.People are quiting,just because of them…The game is almost dead.End of the World is coming(6 more days to go,It’s thief fault).

Here’s my feedback on gameplay: I’ve actually quit because of thieves.

Specifically because of all of the kittening nerfs with no sense whatsoever arenanet keeps inflicting on us. Us and other classes, like the mesmer portal or the engineer 30% base grenade reduction. And then they throw us totally unbalanced (as in not even close to what they took) changes like lolscorpion wire, or give 25% speed increase for other classes oprah style while we get some consolation prize that feels more like a spit in the face rather than moving the “value” of burst damage to some other part of the thief.

Ah well. Maybe they’ll recover their sense some time in the future.

Chakuna.6325:

And you only need stand in the Shadow Refuge for 4 seconds, to get the extra 10 seconds of stealth. That’s 5 conditions in in total (14 seconds).

Oh the mythical thief that has every trait and utility and that has enemies dumb enough not to aoe or pull/push the thief from the huge kittening house with an arrow pointing downwards saying ‘hi aoe here plz’

S/D and non glass D/D still nerfed to oblivion and with broken flanking strike. Who the kitten cares about water when the land based weapon skills are broken.

I’d still be a glass gs warrior without doubt. Untill that stops to be the case, I’m staying logged off.

Doomdesire.9365:

If stealth gets nerfed, signet of shadows better get buffed. If stealth stays the same. I won’t mind. Either give us stealth or give us superior mobility/evasion.

Oh naivety…

Tulisin.6945:

tl;dr – People don’t understand that staying stealthed means not being able to attack while your opponent is free to do so.

Also: the more you are in stealth, the more your enemies cooldowns decrease. Stealthing puts pressure on you.

It doesn’t matter. It’s clear thieves are gonna keep getting nerfed until the QQing stops and I can replace my floormat with mine.

Why am I not surprised?

Oh wait I know why. Its patch after patch of sledgehammer nerf. Here’s some feedback: your changes are so funny.

Remove PVE areas from World Completion. PVE map completion is unfair to be considered for a player’s PvP progress when PvE is inherently designed for bots.

tagnut.8621:

Bring on the nerfs please ANET.

Yes, I’m sure more of those lovely linear damage reductions will come into play even if it means non glass cannons will possibly be healing their enemies when striking.

Deathspike.1870:

A warrior is in the same situation if he used Shake It Off, which has a 20-second cooldown at least, and which removes one or two conditions, depending on whether he has Soldier runes. So you can just use Infiltrators Arrow and cripples, and if he’s got poison or bleed on him, he can’t even get out of that. So catching them is easy, granted you have at least some initiative. If you wasted it all, you didn’t leave room for yourself to escape and that is bad too. Now, a thief that needs to get out.. stealth. Done!

Do you realize you are saying that I’m right? That thief has no initiative after chasing (and opening) and IF he has a stealth left he has to try to stealth and run away? And at that point the warrior has effectively and safely disengaged as he wanted to? And even more if the warrior is watching what hes doing?

Or is it one of those thief “builds” where you backstab for 100k and have bleeds and poisons that last 40 days and nights and can reapply on demand and switch weapons back and forth constantly?

I keep hearing about these representatives. Is there a way to contact said representative to send them my polite feedback with all due respect?

Deathspike.1870:

This is why the thief is perceived as OP. It’s easy to play and mistakes can be corrected.

Macroing a glass cannon bs opening does not count as playing. If I as a thief can get out of the initial opening, turn around and smack the thief in the face the warrior has even more of a chance.

And all that about running away… please. Good luck at catching a warrior with signet of rage + gs + shake it off. And good luck if you used your initiative or utilities to catch up with him.

- “Oh It looks like my glass cannony life is half gone. Hey I think I shall stick around to see if I get backstabbed again and if culling will work or not. TRUE WARRIORS DONT RUN AWAY HURRARARRRRR”

Arkensoth.8139:

Wait, wait, wait a minute!

What’s the difference between this and backstab thieves? Their 1-trick-pony combo has a 45 sec. CD.

Obviously the difference is that warriors use Big kitten Shaped Swords. Thus they deserve to 1 or 2 second shot anyone they choose. Here’s how they envision the fight:

- Thief mugs for 1000
- Thief cnd for 1000
- Thief backstabs for 2000
- Thief hs for 1500
- Warrior turns towards the screen, puts down his cup and exclaims: OMG THE SANCTITY OF MY BODY HAS BEEN VIOLATED I WILL PUNISH THIS INFIDEL!
- They autoattack for 2200 for extra humilliation.
- They press their FOR GREAT GLORY key with does 25000.
- Thief dodges out
- A few of extra 2200 extra humilliation autoattacks
- The FOR MOAR GREAT GLORY key is pressed. The thief is rooted due to this astounding display of skill, gets to his knees and begs for mercy. The warrior chops his head of with the cry of “LULULUL IM SO GUD”

Aratoa.7398:

Spiders Spiders Spiders.8043:

I have a good idea what we will be getting next: Auto-attack damage reduced by 50%. Think of it. It makes sense given the arbitrary sledgehammer approach to this class, and it would stop making other damage skills look bad in comparison.

Oh man, could you imagine? That’d just put thieves into NEEDING to play as stealther backstab builds in order to kill. My wonderful S/D build would be actually nerfed into uselessness.

Naaaa that would never happen. Why would they nerf s/d into uselessness and non glass burst damage into further uselessness pidgeonholing the class?

Oh wait.

Is this thread full of people admitting to using an exploit, telling us of details on when so arenanet can investigate, telling others there are no repercussions for using said exploit, and encouraging others to use the same exploit?

I see this game is going to places.

Elochai.1280:

However, requiring 100G and a commander badge to form groups larger than 5 is a joke.

You know what’s a joke? How the most efficient, materially rewarding, cost effective and safe way of getting those 100G for a pvp item is to go and farm in pve.

Elochai.1280:

Why does everyone need incentives and a carrot on a stick to pvp. The whole point of pvp is to fight other players and have fun doing that.

Why does everyone need incentives and a carrot on a stick to pve. The whole point of pve is to fight mobs and have fun doing that.

Sopeople see their enemies but don’t see their allies. How are warriors supposed to know how far to push if they don’t know where the front line is? How are squishies gonna stay behind if they don’t know where back line is?

You might as well make everyone invisible like some time ago…

BabelFish.7234:

Telegraph.7509:

If one rich investor sees signs of somebody buying up a market, he can do the same and try to crash the other guy’s speculation by dumping early.

That’s called being a griefer and to grief in this manner you’d have to have way too much time on your hands, be incredibly wealthy and generally be one miserable kitten.

That is called market pvp, and market pvp is best pvp.

I have a good idea what we will be getting next: Auto-attack damage reduced by 50%. Think of it. It makes sense given the arbitrary sledgehammer approach to this class, and it would stop making other damage skills look bad in comparison.

Ravrohan.8231:

It would really make a difference if the mods checked in and posted some feedback. Better yet a dev just to say what they’re looking at and what they are going to consider. Otherwise the pertinent info will be lost and this will all be pointless.

Oh, the mods do check this thread. I have several of my posts deleted because I posted why I accurately describe as impersonal unemotional yet extremely negative feedback on both the changes and arenanets balancing modus operandi, and reasoned in a logical way why and how this thread is utterly pointless other than damage control.

So yes, the mods do read this thread, and the devs will not change anything because anyone in their right of mind and even when they didn’t know how popular builds worked at this stage (lol, devs dont know how much bs glass does at this stage of the game that they have to try on dummies?) would have noticed the changes were going to deeply affect other builds more than the one they stated they wanted to nerf.

Anyway, maybe this less structured post will resist the fury of the delete button. Or perhaps I should sing kumbaya and stick to the “feedback” posts that they want. Which seems to be irrelevant discussions of whether its 33% or 25%, rather than feedback about how they don’t know what they are doing.

Also I like how the title of the thread mutated from “feedback” to " Steal stealth trait (Hidden Thief) totally broken now"

Jahva.1895:

Otherwise, I have to assume that you’re just setting up the pretense for another round of class-destroying changes.

You know when I knew there was bad kitten coming our way? When they spotted someone from arenanet testing burst damage on dummies at the mists. If at this point arenanet did not have a good idea on what the damage output was on a very well known build, how can it know how the class actually plays and what issues it has?

Jahva.1895:

Most of the things I’ve read here have been discussed to death in previous threads. Yet we’ve never gotten an official response. Now we have to shout them, again, in a thread where you are supposedly listening to us.

They’ve said they read the forums. There’s nothing that hasn’t been said in one way or another because the issue is really simple and that anyone could have spotted as they were discussing the changes internally. Thus there’s nothing new for them to read here, this thread doesn’t have extra “readingness” quality over the rest of the forum. The remaining use for this thread, then, is it being damage control.

We in CIR are used to adapt to the circumstances of the fight. Sometimes its more entertaining than other times.

Unfortunately having no body collision (everything gets mushed together), really horrible culling and no external camera means I haven’t found a way to make a proper video showing entertaining tactics without having to resort to explain what is going on.

Signet of Rage + Shake it Off + Greatword: “Lololol catch me if you can and if you do get ready to suffer because you won’t have initiative/endurance and my 30 seconds might, fury and swiftness will still be up”.

Ah, a “go whine in that corner and stop disturbing the peace” thread. I am disappointed with the changes trend. Arenanet has no qualms in obliterating everything to the ground in their quest to deal with specific cases. In the last “episode”:

- Bs burst glass cannon builds doing insane damage in spvp? Nerf bs and cnd damage to everyone.
- Dancing dagger glass cannons hitting other glass cannons for insane damage in spvp? Nerf dancing dagger for everyone.
- Tactical stike overdazing when used with a particular signet? Nerf tactical strike for everyone.

I only do (or did) wvw. I have no interest in playing on borrowed time (arenanet obviously thinks the correct balance is in spvp), using gimmicky builds (glass backstab), playing miniwarriors (pistol whip) or miniengineer (kiting with a pistol).

s/d (even with its broken flanking strikes and the slow 3rd slash which everyone knows not to be hit by) provided long entertaining fights, with stuff you could kill, stuff you could not, and stuff you’d end up in a tie. dancing dagger was good enough for its initiative cost, and made you think about whether you should move to the mobs to use them for your purposes, rangers actually managing their pets or people considering whether they should go for a res or not.

Basketball arenanet style: “We have a few people who are 4m high. As this is unfair, we will be chopping everyones legs by the knee to ensure a level playing field. Also as compensation to reduced leg length everyone will be getting an extra drink.”

GlockworK.2954:

.5 second reduction isn’t a huge deal, but a nerf nonetheless.

25% reduction is not a huge deal?

GlockworK.2954:

Vaderlander.1094:

LOL.. guys be reallistic. Thieves were doing way to much damage in PVP. and you know it. There was no class the thief couldn’t handle. Burst was way to high and you know it.

You really think Anet nerfed BS Thieves?!

Your in for a rude awakening. They didn’t touch our spike damage at all. (outside of a small damage reduction to CnD, which didn’t hit hard to begin with)

Well, they did a bit. But they nerfed anything other than the glass bs builds a LOT more. And obviously they aren’t supid so they knew what they were doing and did it on purpose.

Rukia.4802:

I honestly lol’d at the 50% and 33% damage reduction, then I cried, then threw up a little. This is going to hurt non glass cannons soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo bad. Definitely had a feeling they would go all Blizzard on thieves but didn’t think they would really go through with it.

Indeed. Funny thing is dancing dagger was just lovely to deal with glass backstabbers, which apparently was the issue they were going to address. And I say apparently because… well… lol.

As for me, Warrior or Mesmer of course.

I’d recommend warrior if you like it. It seems to be the base class in this game.

DesertRose.2031:

Hyde.6189:

DesertRose.2031:

W3 counts as PvE

Really? Can anyone else confirm this?

Just rechecked it if it may have changed, no, W3 skill counts as PvE, so the nerfs for Thieves in W3 are:

*Dancing Dagger: This skill’s damage has been reduced by 50%.
*Tactical Strike: This skill’s damage has been increased by 10% in all formats.

It doesn’t matter. Arenanet’s thought process is clear: sledgehammer nerfs with a teaspoon of sweetner and more to come to wvw. I used to do s/d w/ a balancedish build. Now it’ll have to be pinch-my-nose-and-go-d/d-glass, reroll or hibernate. And, tbh, someone else will have to volunteer to be arenanet’s punching bag.

saVdoom.2067:

You can probably see there is literally no target calling or target selection since groups just mark their “leader” just to know where to bring the AoE spam on top of him and follow him around lol.

- Primary is the ele to the right!
- Hold on i can’t see kitten with all this AOE.
- Just fire on the group to the right.
- Firing!
- No no no thats the middle, I said to the right!
- But I shot to the right, there’s nothing more to the right!
- Sure there is, look, invader ele is next to invader um…
- Is he next to a guardian? I think it’s a guardian, it’s one of those kitten rat people wielding something that looks like a toothpick as usual…
- No I think that’s a bow.
- A bow? It looked more like a staff to me
- Shoot the kitten ele! Godd.. PORTAL PORTAL PORTAL
- Oh kitten now I can’t see anything at all. Where are you?
- Lol. Just AOE.

Hrist.8972:

Whatever, I’ll just adapt.

Grind. You’ll just grind.

It’s been a while since the horrible nerf to SM that led the upper floor to be vacated. Perfect place for Lord Grubbington!

Laef.4519:

This is just Land of the Dead all over again (Warhammers first (and last) content update)..
An update that forced rvr (wvw) players to do pve dungeons to stay competitive in pvp..
:(

At least there you could still kill people. Here you can’t even do the monthly anymore since they make you do pve dungeons, and the gold and karma we get is greatly devaluated by the pvers farming CS and that plinx thing all day long with no risk whatsoever.

Genotix.6804:

What i don’t get is people coming back at posts about servers they have allready left and seeking glory they think GH owes them.
[…]
Please leave us in peace, you moved on , nice to fought together with you but please don’t come at GH posts fighting about who has a bigger impact on the server you have already abandon. Don’t you have a fight for T1 atm?

No, the server for which KISS abandoned GH is in T5, not T1.

That’s just silly. If you remove the swords the puggies will have absolutely no clue about where to go, and will all go to the commander icon. You have promoted zerging even more.

I have an idea!

1. Let players of Side A line up to the north.
2. Let players of Side B line up to the south.
3. At the count of three open fire once.
4. Once both sides have fired, both sides advance a step forward.
5. Repeat until everyone in is each others HB range.

Flanking strke is not justifiable to use for its cost in both initiative and in risk in the immense majority of cases. It’s kinda ironic that it’s most reliable when you can’t use it to flank.