Guild Wars 2

I see A LOT of examples of Anet saying: “This is not what we designed (insert supposed problem here) to be.” I.E I see examples of what you didn’t design these issues to do, but I don’t see a clear (or even vague) statement of what Anet DOES want them to do.

It’s obvious they want things to take longer…. but when you change things to take longer… that makes getting anything relativity fast a “Grind” as it were.

Be fore people come out of the bulwark with fallacies such as: “If you don’t like it don’t play” or “then don’t grind” I want to address comments such as these and show you why they aren’t even addressing the issue and in fact aren’t even valid.

First off things like: “If you don’t like it don’t play”

Either you didn’t PAY for the game yourself, or you just don’t value the money you earned. I’ll give you an example: You see a movie in theaters, several months later it comes out on blue ray. You purchase said movie and upon viewing it notice they took the scenes you liked OUT of the blue ray cut. Now a person who valued the money they spent would take it back an insist on a refund. But if the movie was given as a gift said person wouldn’t feel the need to get money back that they didn’t spend. So if you are the latter you have absolutely no right to talk to the former, get me?

Now things like: “then don’t grind”
Welp, either you haven’t reached endgame, haven’t tried endgame, or aren’t one for aesthetics. If you don’t care how you look then YOU are the minority. Most MMO players care Deeply for how their avatar is perceived. The most common use of the word “Grind” comes from describing farming mobs, repeatable quests and so on. In GW2 Grinding mobs is just NOT how you get anything. You need to acquire Gold and level crafting. -By the time you are lvl 80 usually you have at least 1 Craft up to 400- Back in my day of gaming it was common practice to do things you borderline hated in a game in order to acquire what you wanted. “Don’t grind” is such a vague argument that I don’t know how it is used to commonly, it’s an uninformed, uneducated use of slang.

It’s fine they (Anet) want things to take longer, but if you are going to change the job, change the wages. Tone down the money sinks, and offer some avenues of generating wealth.

My character’s name is Solan Aceae, the scientific name for Nightshade. He’s a Sylvari Thief, all black with glowing red inlays (when it’s night time).

dchsknight.3042:

I think the Op should stop playing game and get over themselves… This thread is useless and helps no one on this forum. This forum is meant to help people not deter people from a game. Especially since he does not know what he talking about!

Sir, please give us an example of how I don’t know what I am talking about. You are just flaming my OP. You are offering NOTHING to the conversation. What you are doing is violating the forum rules, BELIEVE me I became DEEPLY acquainted with them whilst I was… “Away”

And FYI this thread allows people to discuss the changes we’ve been seeing since release. My OP is OPinionated (seewhatididthere), it’s MY opinion. I haven’t said: “you should leave this game” Heck, I haven’t even said I have left the game.

Please refrain from using exclamation marks on remarks that are akin to: “you’re a liar!” and “your information is incorrect” I invite you to prove me wrong, Sir.

SirMoogie.9263:

Stratto.3869:

Is sacrificing the quality of the product AFTER a consumer purchases it in order to keep them playing really fair to the consumer?

I don’t accept your question’s assumptions. It presumes quality was lost and that it was done to keep players playing. This thread addresses these changes, perhaps you can offer your response there, as it will be illuminating to say the least:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Hidden-Mechanics-Affecting-Player-Behavior/first#post177110

If you take away the easiest options to make money in this game, all the ones that are left are the difficult ones. Effectively making the game more difficult without ADDING content but rather changing the existing “stuff”. With so many money sink integrated in the game already, the only logical conclusion is that we are being steered toward the Gem shop. It’s not that hard to imagine, they want more money, that’s fine. But rather than take from our rewards, perhaps offer better deals?

Now that I am no longer… we will call it “Away” I want to continue this discussion.

I want to pose a question to anyone watching this thread:

Is sacrificing the quality of the product AFTER a consumer purchases it in order to keep them playing really fair to the consumer?

Maybe we would use the cash shop more if there were better items. I sure as heck not gunna spend 10 bucks for 800 gems that give me 1.5 gold. Especially the way prices are now. If there is a bottom cap for prices, there needs to be a top cap as well. And it should adjust to the economy. Until that time arrives give the player back their means to make their money.

Alice.8694:

Stratto.3869:

Alice.8694:

Stratto.3869:

Relentless.5678:

I like to think long-term. I have long-term goals for what I want to accomplish in-game. Sort of a nebulous ever-changing miasma of adventure and kitten-kickery. (I just made up a new word!) It is important to look good and feel good. It is real real nice to have 1000 gold (I can only guess). I plan on getting to that point, but I also plan on that taking a long time. If those goals were able to be accomplished in weeks or days I wouldn’t count them in my long-term goals list. I’d be angry in fact because my list just got shorter.
Going on most of the comments from people in the “pro-grinding” camp; I can only take home the fact that some people want their time to be worth more than mine.

What if I told you those goals are now impossible without buying Gems? what will you do?

I’d tell you you’re talking kittenkittens… And suggest you actually try to demonstrate this with data before making absurd assertions that clearly aren’t true.

Alice, I’m realy tired of you trying so hard to discredit me. You obviously haven’t reached lvl 80 or haven’t been 80 long enough to even know about half the stuff I’m talking about. I used to get 26 silver a Run on COF, EVERY 80 and their MOTHER knows how much you got at the end of that dungeon. They just changed that to 2, It takes me twice that to get from Orr to FH. You maybe get downed like twice in COF, it happens, the repair is about 4-6 silver, or if you are downed alot in just a bad run up to 11 Silver, I don’t have a screenie with me so you will have to use your little imagination, OR ask ANYONE WHOS DONE IT. So now, yet again they destroyed our source of revenue. What do we do now… OH HEY LOOK GEMS! Either you are dense, ignorant, or haven’t hit 80…. IF it’s the Latter I suggest you get there before acting like you are on equal ground.

You are making a lot of baseless assertions and extreme claims. You certainly aren’t backing them up with anything other than sensationalism.

I’ve been 80 for quite a while now, long enough to have my first set of gear complete, full explorers and now working on my second set for dungeons.

I earn 2 gold a day on average despite travelling and deaths and that’s just from mostly playing, exploring and having fun.

Acquiring my first set of gear wasn’t remotely the chore you seem to think it was. It just took 400 in the appropriate crafting choices and the items I found exploring the world.

And throwing out ad hominem and appeal to seniority at the end of your rambling in order to undermine my very simple request that you justify your sensationalism is really low and pretty much demonstrates you’ve got nothing.

No, really go on. I like the big words you use. Especially the part where you just don’t get it at all. I’m not here to rally a cause, but you seem to desperately try again and again to discredit me, not my argument but me. I’ve got Nothing? I’ve got a Receipt for GW2 sir, same as you.

Your effort to either drive me into a rage, or publicly try to diffuse my relationship with my fellow veteran players is astounding, but nonetheless you cannot shake my resolve.

I don;t need proof when the proof is all over the forums. So many topics about the same issues, are you now going to try and convince us that those are all me? Sir you are out of line, I ask that you speak with respect and that if you are going to insult my standing come at me with some better ammo. AT LEAST something better than: “you aint got no data charts”

Auroma.9126:

Stratto.3869:

Alice.8694:

Stratto.3869:

Relentless.5678:

I like to think long-term. I have long-term goals for what I want to accomplish in-game. Sort of a nebulous ever-changing miasma of adventure and kitten-kickery. (I just made up a new word!) It is important to look good and feel good. It is real real nice to have 1000 gold (I can only guess). I plan on getting to that point, but I also plan on that taking a long time. If those goals were able to be accomplished in weeks or days I wouldn’t count them in my long-term goals list. I’d be angry in fact because my list just got shorter.
Going on most of the comments from people in the “pro-grinding” camp; I can only take home the fact that some people want their time to be worth more than mine.

What if I told you those goals are now impossible without buying Gems? what will you do?

I’d tell you you’re talking kittenkittens… And suggest you actually try to demonstrate this with data before making absurd assertions that clearly aren’t true.

Alice, I’m realy tired of you trying so hard to discredit me. You obviously haven’t reached lvl 80 or haven’t been 80 long enough to even know about half the stuff I’m talking about. I used to get 26 silver a Run on COF, EVERY 80 and their MOTHER knows how much you got at the end of that dungeon. They just changed that to 2, It takes me twice that to get from Orr to FH. You maybe get downed like twice in COF, it happens, the repair is about 4-6 silver, or if you are downed alot in just a bad run up to 11 Silver, I don’t have a screenie with me so you will have to use your little imagination, OR ask ANYONE WHOS DONE IT. So now, yet again they destroyed our source of revenue. What do we do now… OH HEY LOOK GEMS! Are you dense? Or just ignorant?

It seems it is in the interest of some people to get this thread locked by increasing the kitten kitten trolling here. First they make personal attacks and false accusations, now they demand 100 Excel Spreadsheets.

Oh yes, It’s quite obvious, so I even edited my original post and apologize for making Alice seem as though he/she is unwelcome. Let me make it clear it isn’t he/she which is unwelcome, it’s ignorant, deliberate, obvious troll attacks that are.

Relentless.5678:

I like to think long-term. I have long-term goals for what I want to accomplish in-game. Sort of a nebulous ever-changing miasma of adventure and kitten-kickery. (I just made up a new word!) It is important to look good and feel good. It is real real nice to have 1000 gold (I can only guess). I plan on getting to that point, but I also plan on that taking a long time. If those goals were able to be accomplished in weeks or days I wouldn’t count them in my long-term goals list. I’d be angry in fact because my list just got shorter.
Going on most of the comments from people in the “pro-grinding” camp; I can only take home the fact that some people want their time to be worth more than mine.

What if I told you those goals are now impossible without buying Gems? what will you do?

SirMoogie.9263:

Stratto.3869:

Nothing WAS, but now it is, when your base of income gets a 90% reduction, you kinda hit the red before you even get there.

That depends on your costs actually. If you were only spending 5% of your income on upkeep between payouts and you now lost 90% of your payout you would still be in the green. And…

90%, seriously? What were you doing that is now unfeasible. How much were you making and how much do you make now? Call me incredulous.

Aight check it, I was doing COF runs to do two things at once: 1 Get tokens for the gear I wanted and, 2: Get 26-40 silver per run to buy some upgrades armor and weapon wise. they just nerfed the amount of money you get to 2 Silver from 26 Silver to 2. CM I heard it went from 50 Silver to 85 copper.

SirMoogie.9263:

Stratto.3869:

To have fun, but that fun is being taken away because of the in game prices and rewards being nerfed. You need money in the game to do anything, Teleport, Wvw (repairs), dungeon (repairs). Etc etc.

So, you are finding that you don’t have enough money to repair or travel? I haven’t had this experience, but it might be afflicting certain activities. I’ve only noticed dips in income when I go out of my way to make purchases from the trading post or for the various leveling milestones (e.g., trait books). What specific activities are making you go into the red?

Nothing WAS, but now it is, when your base of income gets a 90% reduction, you kinda hit the red before you even get there.

SirMoogie.9263:

Stratto.3869:

Unfortunately I payed for it with MY money, and actually care about getting my monies worth. I can’t speak for those of us who just like bowing our heads when prices go up or our product is changed right from under our noses. “Leave then” is the excuse given to those that A: had their parents buy it, B: used money given to them for birthdays or gifts in general, or C: Don’t care about getting their monies worth.

SirMoogie.9263:

Wow. Let me rephrase. What are you personally trying to achieve in game?

To have fun, but that fun is being taken away because of the in game prices and rewards being nerfed. You need money in the game to do anything, Teleport, Wvw (repairs), dungeon (repairs). Etc etc.

Relentless.5678:

Ok, I think I got it. The “unfun” is being forced upon your desire to look cool and have lots of wealth. Free-to-play with pay-to-win cash shop and horrible grind. Sounds bad. I definitely wouldn’t play that game.

Unfortunately I payed for it with MY money, and actually care about getting my monies worth. I can’t speak for those of us who just like bowing our heads when prices go up or our product is changed right from under our noses. “Leave then” is the excuse given to those that A: had their parents buy it, B: used money given to them for birthdays or gifts in general, or C: Don’t care about getting their monies worth.

Luthan.5236:

Wow. Did not check back at that Whispers armor and other stuff. I know from the beginning when it was cheap. Really 4 gold now? Unfair to others that buy it later if some people already bought it early and cheap.

I think the main reason for all this is: They want us to buy gems for real money in the gem store.

Everytime some players find something where you can grind ingame money efficiently and a lot of players start doing it they will change something if it is too fast in their opinion. Unfortunately they can’t ban everytime. We all know about the cooking stuff bought for karma and sold for ingame gold.

Nobody could have known this was not intended(when already people are telling me mesmer portal exploit to get into keep in WvW is intended… clearly everyone is trying to get the most ouf of the game as long as it is not obviously like a 21 karma weapon exploit).

Okay. People whined. No more bans. But still changes. But I know they would like to ban that people too ingelligent and making enough money from the game and not needing to buy gems. ;-)

We all know it:: Company not making enough money at the moment.

Solution: Either pay to play with subscription.

Free to play with pay to win and cash shop and horrible grind where you are forced to buy gems or grind tons of hours (imho boring and I would quit would prefer first option if they really needed money but would need major bugfixes and more and better sPvP and WvW first).

Or 3rd solution: Game needs to be shut down and moving on to more profitable projects. Sad but that’s how it is like. You only need to look at their action and interpret the correctly. Every sane person should know that it is like this now. Not enough money and they are nearly bankrupt. Even announcing Mac Client now to get people that can afford Mac and have a lot of money to buy Guild Wars and hoping for them to buy lots of gems.

That’s what I’m Saying!

Relentless.5678:

Stratto.3869:

……..

ZOMG. We can’t have fun when the things that were making it fun are being taken away… at 80 all you care about is lookin good whilst killing people. don’t say make another character, i want to finish my main before I make another…. “Enjoy the game” Hard to do when what makes it enjoyable is slowly disappearing.

I don’t like to single people out on forums, but I’m having trouble understanding exactly what is being taken away from you. I can get that the fun could be taken away, but it must have a precursor as fun is not a thing. What is changing that’s removing your fun? I can only go by what was posted previously, but I’m guessing that the “grind” is getting just too “grindy” and taking too long. When will your main be complete and finished? I’m just curious and you don’t have to respond.

Actually the fun isn’t being taken away, more like the “unfun” is being pored upon us. What’s being taken away from me is the final enjoyment of an 80, to acquire wealth and look good. I wanted to acquire wealth so I could make other toons and fit them out. And I want to look cool whilst I’m Pvping. Any other questions?

SirMoogie.9263:

Stratto.3869:

issing the point. I haven’t exhausted the content, they have exhausted it for me. I was enjoying dungeon runs but now I will be paying to do them because of the nerf of rewards. They are slowly, but extremely, making it it harder and harder to get anywhere at lvl 80. I haven’t exhausted kitten, the providers are ruining it right in front of my eyes. Are you OK with have the content be less and less appealing?

I guess I don’t understand. Where are you trying to get to?

Sigh, that it is not okay to sacrifice quality of the content that was payed fro in order to get more business…. Okay so imagine the game is a good looking office building. Got it? So inside there are 3 floors, people usually only see the first two. So on the top floor the two bottom floors start taking the top floor’s furniture and such in order for the two bottom floors, lets call these low level and mid levels, to look better. Because the two bottom floors look so nice in the public eye the business looks grand. Now the Top floor, lets call these level 80 players, they’ve noticed that the boss has been paying more attention to what the public sees i.e the bottom two floors, and has at times had knee jerk reactions to what the lvl 80 players were doing to make money.

Follow me? If not so far: We have a boss that has taken from the top employees because he’s just been paying attention to what they are doing “wrong” and firing them for “Exploitation”. The boss focuses on the public eye’s view of his business by sprucing up the bottom levels and therefore has their support in what ever he does.

Now it wasn’t always like this, but the people on the bottom floors haven’t been around for as long as the people on the top floor, so all they’ve seen is success and glitter. Now the boss is funneling them down into a money pot, they now have less pay for the same amount of work and now the veteran workers are actually losing money for working, we’ll call this endgame. So the new employees are oblivious to the fact that they are slowly being pushed to buy more and more, staples at the office are now costing money, deductions from paychecks for exploring job opportunities and so on.

Now a lvl 80 player talks about how this is a problem and most of the other 80s agree, but they are bashed by the onslaught of new workers who can’t see why this is a problem.

^ That’s the example.

Here is what I’m saying: We payed 60 bucks for a product we love and now that content is being drastically altered so that in order to enjoy the game we are gunna end up having to buy gems and trade them for gold. And all these new players who are all like: “I enjoy the game and I just got here and everything is wonderful” have no idea what the game was like a month ago.

Relentless.5678:

Stratto.3869:

Cerise.9045:

Relentless.5678:

Hey, I thought the topic was grind-to-win!!!

ArenaNet doesn’t want you to be able to grind for gear in a reasonable amount of time.

The only way ArenaNet wants you to get money at a reasonable pace if you want exotics in less than 2 months after hitting level 80 is to abuse the trading post to take money from other people(and make 15% of it disappear into thin air) or to buy gems to turn into gold.

mostly the Latter.

Both options are viable, but you’re forgetting the other option. Play the game and have fun for a long time. The gold, karma and gear will come eventually.

ZOMG. We can’t have fun when the things that were making it fun are being taken away… at 80 all you care about is lookin good whilst killing people. don’t say make another character, i want to finish my main before I make another…. “Enjoy the game” Hard to do when what makes it enjoyable is slowly disappearing.

Cerise.9045:

Relentless.5678:

Hey, I thought the topic was grind-to-win!!!

ArenaNet doesn’t want you to be able to grind for gear in a reasonable amount of time.

The only way ArenaNet wants you to get money at a reasonable pace if you want exotics in less than 2 months after hitting level 80 is to abuse the trading post to take money from other people(and make 15% of it disappear into thin air) or to buy gems to turn into gold.

mostly the Latter.

Cerise.9045:

Stratto.3869:

Cerise.9045:

Stratto.3869:

Cerise.9045:

Auroma.9126:

Cerise.9045:

Remember when ArenaNet promised that getting gear with max-stats would be trivial and require no grind when hitting level 80?

They said it was only special prestige skins that would require a lot of effort to obtain.

So where’s the easy to obtain max stat gear? Every way to get money/crafting materials for the crafted exotics is branded an exploit and patched out of the game. And the crafted gear only covers maybe 10% of the possible stat combinations, for many people this gear is not max-stats because some of the stats are just useless to them, meaning even more of a grind for these people to get max-stat gear.

Why does ArenaNet want people to grind just to be on an even stat level as everyone else? Is this WoW or Guild Wars?

Games like Perfect World introduced Grinding and farming so that people would buy their currency with real life money ($), and then sell that game currency for items which are acquired through farming (dungeons and stuff) and also on items which will make the grinding a lot faster (getting a higher % of XP per kill for a specific time).
I find it funny when some people say they like to grind/farm a lot because it gives them something to do. I mean who is forcing you to sit on your computer all day and grind/farm. There are much more productive things you can do with your time which will help you in real life.

So grinding and farming became massive money making characteristics for Perfect World, and the fun thing is they promoted their mmorpg as Free to Play (more like Pay to Compete lol). No matter what a mmorpg company tells you, they are in business to make money and by seeing current mmorpg market, a LOTS of money.

Now I have not played Guild Wars 2 long enough to see if what Perfect World did applies to them too, all we can do it wait and see.

At the current exchange rate it takes 102.675 USD to get a full set of max stat armor with the most common skin.

It takes 60.5875 USD to get your set of jewelry.

$23.125 to get your backpack and another $2.4975 to jewel it.

Then around 37 USD – 74 USD to get your weapons based on which ones you get.

Adding up to a total of 225.885 USD to get a basic set of max stat set which has no special prestige skin and is supposed to involve no grinding to obtain.

Lets not even talk about what’s required for a special skin.

to clarify are you talking about a set in GW 2 or PW?

GW2, I played PW for all of 4-5 hours before realizing it was too grindy and required too much money to be effective in.

So you are telling us that it is about 226.00$ to get the gear that we used to be able to acquire for 10-20 Gold?

it’s 22.2 gold for a set of armor
13.1 gold for the jewelry
5 gold for the backpack and .5 gold to jewel it
4 gold-ish per weapon

And that’s IF you aren’t trying to get a legendary weapon… the exotics required to create them are 74 Gold each at the moment.

Cerise.9045:

Stratto.3869:

Cerise.9045:

Auroma.9126:

Cerise.9045:

Remember when ArenaNet promised that getting gear with max-stats would be trivial and require no grind when hitting level 80?

They said it was only special prestige skins that would require a lot of effort to obtain.

So where’s the easy to obtain max stat gear? Every way to get money/crafting materials for the crafted exotics is branded an exploit and patched out of the game. And the crafted gear only covers maybe 10% of the possible stat combinations, for many people this gear is not max-stats because some of the stats are just useless to them, meaning even more of a grind for these people to get max-stat gear.

Why does ArenaNet want people to grind just to be on an even stat level as everyone else? Is this WoW or Guild Wars?

Games like Perfect World introduced Grinding and farming so that people would buy their currency with real life money ($), and then sell that game currency for items which are acquired through farming (dungeons and stuff) and also on items which will make the grinding a lot faster (getting a higher % of XP per kill for a specific time).
I find it funny when some people say they like to grind/farm a lot because it gives them something to do. I mean who is forcing you to sit on your computer all day and grind/farm. There are much more productive things you can do with your time which will help you in real life.

So grinding and farming became massive money making characteristics for Perfect World, and the fun thing is they promoted their mmorpg as Free to Play (more like Pay to Compete lol). No matter what a mmorpg company tells you, they are in business to make money and by seeing current mmorpg market, a LOTS of money.

Now I have not played Guild Wars 2 long enough to see if what Perfect World did applies to them too, all we can do it wait and see.

At the current exchange rate it takes 102.675 USD to get a full set of max stat armor with the most common skin.

It takes 60.5875 USD to get your set of jewelry.

$23.125 to get your backpack and another $2.4975 to jewel it.

Then around 37 USD – 74 USD to get your weapons based on which ones you get.

Adding up to a total of 225.885 USD to get a basic set of max stat set which has no special prestige skin and is supposed to involve no grinding to obtain.

Lets not even talk about what’s required for a special skin.

to clarify are you talking about a set in GW 2 or PW?

GW2, I played PW for all of 4-5 hours before realizing it was too grindy and required too much money to be effective in.

So you are telling us that it is about 226.00$ to get the gear that we used to be able to acquire for 10-20 Gold?

Cerise.9045:

Auroma.9126:

Cerise.9045:

Remember when ArenaNet promised that getting gear with max-stats would be trivial and require no grind when hitting level 80?

They said it was only special prestige skins that would require a lot of effort to obtain.

So where’s the easy to obtain max stat gear? Every way to get money/crafting materials for the crafted exotics is branded an exploit and patched out of the game. And the crafted gear only covers maybe 10% of the possible stat combinations, for many people this gear is not max-stats because some of the stats are just useless to them, meaning even more of a grind for these people to get max-stat gear.

Why does ArenaNet want people to grind just to be on an even stat level as everyone else? Is this WoW or Guild Wars?

Games like Perfect World introduced Grinding and farming so that people would buy their currency with real life money ($), and then sell that game currency for items which are acquired through farming (dungeons and stuff) and also on items which will make the grinding a lot faster (getting a higher % of XP per kill for a specific time).
I find it funny when some people say they like to grind/farm a lot because it gives them something to do. I mean who is forcing you to sit on your computer all day and grind/farm. There are much more productive things you can do with your time which will help you in real life.

So grinding and farming became massive money making characteristics for Perfect World, and the fun thing is they promoted their mmorpg as Free to Play (more like Pay to Compete lol). No matter what a mmorpg company tells you, they are in business to make money and by seeing current mmorpg market, a LOTS of money.

Now I have not played Guild Wars 2 long enough to see if what Perfect World did applies to them too, all we can do it wait and see.

At the current exchange rate it takes 102.675 USD to get a full set of max stat armor with the most common skin.

It takes 60.5875 USD to get your set of jewelry.

$23.125 to get your backpack and another $2.4975 to jewel it.

Then around 37 USD – 74 USD to get your weapons based on which ones you get.

Adding up to a total of 225.885 USD to get a basic set of max stat set which has no special prestige skin and is supposed to involve no grinding to obtain.

Lets not even talk about what’s required for a special skin.

to clarify are you talking about a set in GW 2 or PW?

Flashheart.8749:

Stratto.3869:

But the question should be asked…. Is it OK to drastically change the parameters of the product you spent 60 bucks on? The answer is… It’s not. If you buy a movie after seeing it in theaters, and find out they changed the story from a Intellectual to a Die Hard-esk film are you going to just sit and try to enjoy the new movie that was once good enough for you to buy? That’s not OK, and you would take the movie back and demand a refund, or that’s what a person who valued their hard earned money would do.

So, with respect, if you feel that way why are you not going back to get your money back and returning the game ?

Because I’d like to get the product that I enjoyed back first, BEFORE I ask for my money back. I believe that we can come to an agreement. It was such a good game and so enjoyable…. I’d rather it go back than go down the road you so suggested.

Alice.8694:

Personally I’d like the Op to show me the part where they claimed vanity prestige gear wouldn’t be a grind.

They definitely claimed high end stats would be easy to achieve. But they also claimed that prestige items would be very hard to obtain.

Alot of this comes across as mindless rabble rousing.

Faction gear was only obtainable at lvl 80, and it’s level of Rarity is “Rare” (yellow) not even the stats I really wanted either. And now high end stats are much harder to achieve, prestige items are the dungeon reward sets, NOT the faction items. Looks like you are the only on that is mindless.

SirMoogie.9263:

Sounds like you exhausted all of the content that you wanted to experience. Take a break, play another game, and return to the game when they add new content you’ll enjoy. It was a $50-$60 purchase and you probably got 200+ hours out of the game if you have experienced the world and what it offers. MMOs cannot possibly cater to the schedules of those who exhaust all of the content quickly.

Once again, missing the point. I haven’t exhausted the content, they have exhausted it for me. I was enjoying dungeon runs but now I will be paying to do them because of the nerf of rewards. They are slowly, but extremely, making it it harder and harder to get anywhere at lvl 80. I haven’t exhausted kitten, the providers are ruining it right in front of my eyes. Are you OK with have the content be less and less appealing?

Auroma.9126:

In my opinion just enjoy your journey from 1 to 80 (one time only). Once you 80, all the suger coated grind becomes too obvious and Guild War 2 becomes just another mmorpg. GW2 was fun till I hit 80, now its:

*Either do X runs of dungeon Y to get gear Z (been there done that).
*Farm world boss X who spawns every Y hrs (been there done that).
*Farm dynamic event X, if will get a spilt second to land your hit before the mobs die to bots and other 99999 players (not exactly 9999, but A LOT!) (been there done that).
*Die 9999 times in personal story if you are a class with weak defence (even if you go all defence build, you will kill mobs too slowly and get hit more, in some areas you cannot kite). Doing personal story is a sure way to remain broke for casual players who don’t farm coin a lot. (This is an innovative new feature)
*Complete map X or do jumping puzzle Y again.

• Fight other servers in WvWvW or do sPvP (been there done that – on a different scale)
  *Report bots and gold sellers (been there done that).
  *Grind some Karma, think to buy the overpriced karma gear and then postpone the decision while you go back to grinding some more karma. (been there done that)
  etc etc…..

I would like to state again that the above is my personal opinion and yours may be different. I did not make this post to argue with anyone, just stating how I feel now that the honeymoon fantasy phase is over and I see things as they are. But would add that I feel Guild Wars 2 was worth the $59.99 I spent on it, as it kept me entertained for a few weeks.

But the question should be asked…. Is it OK to drastically change the parameters of the product you spent 60 bucks on? The answer is… It’s not. If you buy a movie after seeing it in theaters, and find out they changed the story from a Intellectual to a Die Hard-esk film are you going to just sit and try to enjoy the new movie that was once good enough for you to buy? That’s not OK, and you would take the movie back and demand a refund, or that’s what a person who valued their hard earned money would do.

Flashheart.8749:

metaverse.6821:

I just said people as in I doubt most people do these things much if there were no reward waiting for them. That’s not saying that the experience isn’t fun or anything…I’ve said I enjoyed dungeons.

Thing is the dungeons are hard. That’s coo. That really is…but they are punishing players for even trying to learn how to do them. As a result it’s hard to mention GW2 dungeon without hearing complaints about how difficult they are and how unrewarding they are. I don’t think the difficulty is so much the problem, I think it’s that the game punishes them with repair fees for trying to figure them out in the first place.

One thing Anet was and has been right about is that people will desire cosmetic items…now they just need to go about how to reward players with those items.

That I can agree with, being punished is not fun. Maybe a better way to improve it is to reduce repair costs or replace them with a completely different death penalty altogether.

YES. Being punished for having fun for something you payed for is… I don’t even have the word for it…. Nonsensical? If you are going to nerf the rewards nerf the punishment and vice versa. It insults everyone’s cognitive ability to pretend this is anything other than pushing us towards buying more, but they are sacrificing the quality of the original product and somehow thinking that because of that we will want to buy more.

Flashheart.8749:

Stratto.3869:

Then never use a metaphor again until you do.

(Naturally) EVERYTIME you do a dungeon you end up having to repair.

(the pub)When a Dungeon glitches you have to reset it and can no longer continue from where you left off.

(slow players) EVERY HOUR OF EVERY DAY at the top of the hour for 10 minutes CoF is unavailable, ARAH is unavailable for upwards of Half a DAY.

(P.S) They are bringing prices up and rewards down to make you want to buy more gems.

Was that so HARD?

Well, it was more allegorical than metaphoric but I digress…

You misunderstand, I see exactly what you wrote, I just don’t see any substance behind your statements.

Then I am sorry for wasting your time, I thought I could drop down and speak stupid but school has effected me more than I ever imagined. Your sudden use of “big words” shows me that you are trying desperately to save face. -No one cares here, we are talking about an issue for more important than the differences between you and I. If I have insulted you I apologize, but I ask that you either contribute to the conversation, or quit posting in this thread entirely. I’m fine with people having different opinions but as soon as it gets slanderous it insults our intelligence. Are we not people? Keep this as a debate.

Maikky.8526:

The people saying “If you don’t like it don’t play it” are beyond help .

I paid 50-60$ on this game and it changed a lot in a 2 weeks .

That’s like saying you buy a house and then the next week your landlord demolishes, telling you, you won’t get a refund .

^^^^^^^ THIS PEOPLE ^^^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ YES YES YES.

Hawken.7932:

I disagree pretty well with the OP. All of the things which you call a grind, I just call nice long term goals which I will complete at my leisure. You’re calling “grind” after a few paltry weeks of play, when the economy is not yet up on its feet. It’s ridiculous. I seriously can’t understand this mindset of people who want everything now now now… just chill out and play the game and stop obsessing about the fact that you can’t have top tier gear and legendaries right away. The game is in its infancy, and those items are meant to be rewards which you will attain “some day”… not through a powergrind by next week.

Then you are missing the POINT. It’s not a grind because I want it “NOW”, it’s TURNING into one because they keep making it harder to even get it “LATER.” I don’t see how this is such a hard concept to grasp. WP prices are too high, so even when I do wanna go do something else I keep oozing money. -But that’s it the repair costs, the WP prices, the Nerfing of rewards. ALL of that is funneling us into having to rely on the reward shop, and I’m not ready to take it up thekitten when 2 weeks ago I payed 60 bucks for a product that has changed to much if not for the money I payed I would have dropped it.

Flashheart.8749:

Stratto.3869:

“Naturally” would you say every game you have to get them fixed up?

So you go to the pub and wait for the rain to stop and then continue where you left off because you have that option? Or are you forced to start over every time because the rain won’t clear from where you stopped?

So are there slow players about every two holes or that you have to wait for to complete the course before you start playing or?

Next?

P.S do they also funnel all the newbies into your corse whilst offering a noob free course for a borderline extreme amount of money?

I have literally no idea what you’re trying to say.

Then never use a metaphor again until you do.

(Naturally) EVERYTIME you do a dungeon you end up having to repair.

(the pub)When a Dungeon glitches you have to reset it and can no longer continue from where you left off.

(slow players) EVERY HOUR OF EVERY DAY at the top of the hour for 10 minutes CoF is unavailable, ARAH is unavailable for upwards of Half a DAY.

(P.S) They are bringing prices up and rewards down to make you want to buy more gems.

Was that so HARD?

“Naturally” would you say every game you have to get them fixed up?

So you go to the pub and wait for the rain to stop and then continue where you left off because you have that option? Or are you forced to start over every time because the rain won’t clear from where you stopped?

So are there slow players about every two holes or that you have to wait for to complete the course before you start playing or?

Next?

P.S do they also funnel all the newbies into your corse whilst offering a noob free course for a borderline extreme amount of money?

gilbetron.8579:

“(I hit 80 in 3 days)”

There’s the problem.

What? Like a lot of excited people I took some vacation days and thoroughly enjoyed the game, sometimes hardly noticing my level. Not my problem it takes people longer to level up because they don’t mind the ever progressing amount of effort it takes to do so. Because they don’t mind the product they payed for changing under their feet. Because our generation has been raised to just accept the prices and negotiations and complaints are seen as disruptive and moot. Good try trying to redirect the issue. ^.^

Flashheart.8749:

metaverse.6821:

No the coin is never irrelevant.

All games have rewards. You’re saying that people would do the dungeon if absolutely nothing happened afterwards? I highly highly doubt that.

All games have a reward. Even a game like Mass Effect, you beat a map/boss and the reward you are given is a cutscene and a story section.

We have agree to disagree. Right now I think the dungeons in particular are more discouraging than encouraging. Instead of players being rewarded for trying to figure their way through them they are punished for that. I don’t think it should be that way.

I play golf twice a week, have done for years, usually the same course to. Can you believe I actually PAY money for it ? as in, do something and not come out of it with any physical reward whatsoever ?

I also run Guild Wars dungeons with the same friends, we have a laugh and try not to die too much.

I must be insane obviously.

Sir, does the golf course also slowly break your club and ask your 20$ so fix it? does your ball ever stop in mid air or the holes close up preventing you from progressing? Is there a mob outside every hour that you have to disperse in order to play gold again? NO. But there is in GW2. for you to use such an analogy, you just MIGHT be insane.

Flashheart.8749:

Stratto.3869:

Flashheart.8749:

metaverse.6821:

Flashheart.8749:

They should just allow direct purchase of all 80 Exotics with Gems, then you could just flex the plastic and you wouldn’t need to actually play the game at all… cause thats what you want right ? more stuff in less playing time ?

Only the individual can determine if an arbitrary amount of time spent doing something they deem as a chore is worth a few pixels. That time will vary wildly.

Whereas as the people that seem to enjoy actually playing the game and see them as a bonus generally agree the time to aquire is acceptable, whatever it is.

No one is asking for things for free or to get easy.

Just for the rewards to match.

Right now someone said they got 83 copper from CM…come on now. Yes it was easy and yes it was quick. If you die once now you’ll actually lose money doing CM. A lot of times people are losing coin from doing dungeons and that is more frustrating than fun.

That’s my point, you are equating how ‘fun’ the task is by how much coin you get for it. Doing it and getting 10g or doing it and getting 1cp, the activity is exactly the same.

If it’s something you want to do and playing the game is the reward, the coin is irrelevent. If it’s something you don’t really want to do and you are only jumping through hoops to get what you personally deem as a worthwhile thing then you can only expect people to disagree.

Then I will say this NOW, after you have done all these story modes/exp all you have LEFT is the rewards from dong them swiftly and skillfully. We will all eventually get to the place some of us 80s are at. Quit being a fanboy and see the problem instead of mindlessly backing the company. Problem is: We are getting less of the game rewards now for the same amount of effort than we were 2 weeks ago. WDungeon grinding wasn’t hurting the economy, it was helping it, does anyone else remember when the exotics used to make legendarys were 14 Gold?

I am neither a fanboy nor mindless. The ‘problem’ is that you think you can determine how much effort is worthy of how much reward for all of us. I don’t consider playing a game as any effort at all, if I did I can guarentee you that I wouldn’t be doing it.

That’s where we differ. You run a treadmill in a closed room, whilst I walk along a country lane.

Wrong again, when did I say that I determine what the standards of reward are? All I have said is that I payed for a product that I was content with and now the are DRASTICALLY changing the reward system that convinced me to buy it.
You are running along a country lane in a sandbox, whilst I am exploring different avenues of space travel, sir.

Arsenal.2601:

Operative word: “game”. Do the parts you like, skip the parts you don’t, move on when you’ve had enough. Anything else is madness.

Negative, Operative word: “Product” Pay for what you were promised, raise objections to changes in the quality after payment, don’t shut up until you get what you payed for. (they did this back in the old days) Anything else is consumerism.

The rewards keep being nerfed as the difficulty stays the same or slightly increases. They keep driving us to the gem shop but don’t they realize the reason we didn’t use the gem shop was because we didn’t want to have to rely on it and end up spending 50 $ in a day? I’d rather them have a subscription fee. There is a difference between offering an easier path for money and driving a car down someones throat but saying if we pay we don’t have to have skid marks down our esophagus.

Flashheart.8749:

metaverse.6821:

Flashheart.8749:

They should just allow direct purchase of all 80 Exotics with Gems, then you could just flex the plastic and you wouldn’t need to actually play the game at all… cause thats what you want right ? more stuff in less playing time ?

Only the individual can determine if an arbitrary amount of time spent doing something they deem as a chore is worth a few pixels. That time will vary wildly.

Whereas as the people that seem to enjoy actually playing the game and see them as a bonus generally agree the time to aquire is acceptable, whatever it is.

No one is asking for things for free or to get easy.

Just for the rewards to match.

Right now someone said they got 83 copper from CM…come on now. Yes it was easy and yes it was quick. If you die once now you’ll actually lose money doing CM. A lot of times people are losing coin from doing dungeons and that is more frustrating than fun.

That’s my point, you are equating how ‘fun’ the task is by how much coin you get for it. Doing it and getting 10g or doing it and getting 1cp, the activity is exactly the same.

If it’s something you want to do and playing the game is the reward, the coin is irrelevent. If it’s something you don’t really want to do and you are only jumping through hoops to get what you personally deem as a worthwhile thing then you can only expect people to disagree.

Then I will say this NOW, after you have done all these story modes/exp all you have LEFT is the rewards from dong them swiftly and skillfully. We will all eventually get to the place some of us 80s are at. Quit being a fanboy and see the problem instead of mindlessly backing the company. Problem is: We are getting less of the game rewards now for the same amount of effort than we were 2 weeks ago. WDungeon grinding wasn’t hurting the economy, it was helping it, does anyone else remember when the exotics used to make legendarys were 14 Gold?

Chris.7653:

I think I might be able to solve this problem right here and now for you.

This is the way the current state of the game is. This is how it was designed. This is how it was in the beta events you were invited to. While ANet likes feedback, you paid for THIS game.

If you do not like the current state of the game I would encourage you to find another game more suited to your needs and check back on this one from time to time to see if it is progressing in the direction you want.

I really don’t like to see anyone unhappy in any game they play, but part of that responsibility falls on the player themselves to recognize when they are not having fun and stop spending time in the game.

My point is, if you want to play the game how it is, play it…if you don’t like it and don’t agree don’t play it. The choice is yours, but please stop getting so worked up over it…whether you choose to play or not it’s still just a game and will eventually be gone years from now.

You are wrong, the logic of “find another game” is soooo bogus. We payed for a product that was enjoyable yes? and now they have changed the parameters of the product, so, we as consumers are voicing our opinions. You can call this “Free to play” but we payed 60 bucks for it and now they are funneling us into have to purchase more from them for the EXACT same experience we were getting a few weeks ago. HOW DO YOU NOT SEE SOMETHING WRONG WITH THAT?

Roxey.3695:

Ok so, I understand people are upset that Anet promised no grind except for vanity gear.

What I dont understand is how people say they cant get gear at all at 80. So you cant be full exotic the minute you hit 80, big whoop. Anyone can go to the TP and buy the green level 80 stuff of their choice, with the stats they want, and only be a few stats below exotic gear. The difference in damage is so low that you will probably never even notice it in a dungeon.

I don’t agree with the wild prices on some of the karma gear, especially the racial karma gear and believe those should be adjusted accordingly.

The exchanging Karma for gold was an exploit, no matter any way you want to put it. The people who purchased 10 or even 20 weapons didnt get banned, there were people buying thousands and having hundreds of gold because of this. You cant tell me they didnt know they were doing something wrong.

People need to stop playing the," Oh I didnt know it was wrong so I did it thousands of times" card.

And honestly, drop the cash shop crap. What items in this game that are a total necessity that require the use of the cash shop? What items can you buy with the cash shop that you couldnt just farm some events or do WvW or gather some mats?
So people wanna drop 300$ on gems, who really cares, they can buy their exotics, which are marginally better than the green versions and go do the same dungeons, at the same difficulty, spending the same time to get the vanity gear.

Maybe people dont understand, youre not really supposed to grind dungeons for tokens for the stats on the gear, crafted gear is so easily obtainable that the only reason to grind dungeons is either for looks or maybe money, but that was nerfed.

I think arenanet is doing their best to give us a game that is enjoyable. The more you kitten and whine, the less that gets done. So the game isnt completely perfect at release, what MMO ever was? What MMO in existence never had any bug or patch updates fixing things.

I can agree with some of Stratto’s points, mainly the karma and gold prices of some gear. I still don’t see this game as much of a grind unless you want vanity gear, you are just as powerful as anyone who would ever buy gems at 80. So they dont want you to get 7-9 bars of your level every dungeon run and they want you to experience the world some, it isnt as bad as you claim. I feel you are trying to vilify the company that is working hard to make their game fun and not giving them the credit to try to do something different.

Do you not think there were people like you on this long journey that told them “This is a horrible way to do things and it will never work”, but here we are, most of us anyway, enjoying the game that a lot said would never work. Have some faith in Anet, this is their baby, I dont think they will let it rot and not nurture it.

I would like to see the proof that people bought thousands and had thousands of gold, A, and B, why not just take the gold away? Why did they ban them completely, these people didn’t even have a chance to defend themselves. Exchanging Karma for Gold is not what the designers wanted, yet they allowed it.

Have you noticed that the items you get from the karma merchants/ faction merchants/ and racial merchants are items you can’t sell to an NPC? That seems like a fix to me, so why haven’t they brought the prices back down? These are the kind of questions that go unanswered. These are the kind of questions that should be asked.

Gauradan.8361:

As Stratto (at least I believe it was him) pointed out, there was enough grinding for legendary weapons.

^That was Metaverse.

It’s just a ploy to keep your money low. “Aww…. If you need money you can always buy some gems.” seewhatididthere

metaverse.6821:

Gauradan.8361:

Flashheart.8749:

They should just allow direct purchase of all 80 Exotics with Gems, then you could just flex the plastic and you wouldn’t need to actually play the game at all… cause thats what you want right ? more stuff in less playing time ?

Only the individual can determine if an arbitrary amount of time spent doing something they deem as a chore is worth a few pixels. That time will vary wildly.

Whereas as the people that seem to enjoy actually playing the game and see them as a bonus generally agree the time to aquire is acceptable, whatever it is.

Then, if people deem it acceptable and noone will speak up so that ArenaNet will change the costs to the previous costs (because, oh, did I mention dungeon armor was easier to acquire in betas and cultural armor costed less?), I will probably be playing Skyrim because guess what? There the armor that I like is a command line away and the choice whether to work for it so that I feel accomplishment when wearing it is mine and mine alone. That doesn’t mean I use cheats, because I don’t, but the choice is there. I don’t care about prestige and showing off my armor. I care about how my character looks. If I have to grind for 200 hours so that my character can look the way I want, ArenaNet and their game can go to hell.

Also you can’t compare a single player game to a multiplayer one.

Single player games can literally give out this stuff, a MMO has to have stuff that must seem rare.

All I am asking for is man when I beat a boss in a explorable mode can I get something of worth? Something to make me feel I was rewarded for downing the boss?

Dude, not only have they not given you that, they just took away the other reward. Do you see, they just keep making it more difficult, not challenging, difficult. Rare is rare, but having no compensation for the effort is just DUMB. It’s all about funneling us into the Cash shop.

Mexxer.5096:

By now you’re probably tired of your character roaming the wonderful world of Tyria in rags for gear so you want to get yourself geared up and looking pretty awsome. I’d hate to burst your bubble but unfortunately due to the current nature of this game, despite which ever way you decide to take to gear up your character its going to be one hell of a grind. Why, well, lets see shall we….

The most obvious route that you’ll think of is gearing up through Karma….that is of course until you realise that one piece of gear will cost you 40k Karma and from level 1-80 levelling you’ll get approximately 30k – 35k depending on whether or not you spent any karma on your way up (I only bought 3 items because i wanted to save up for level 80) .

So now that you’ve realised that the Karma you’ve amassed through all your levelling isn’t even enough to buy you one piece of level 80 gear you’re probably thinking “its okay, ill just do dungeons in Explorable mode”. This is fine and all, until you realise that you’ll need to do at least 8 runs per dungeon for ONE piece of gear, go ahead and do the math for your full set…and try to maintain your sanity while you repeatedly plough through what was at first a really fun experience over and over again…

Your last option is obtaining gear by using gold to buy it/ levelling your crafts so you can make your own gear. Unless you’re one of the people willing to “play the Trading Post” then we both know that isn’t going to happen as the costs for levelling your craft and then making the gear will easily amount to 15 gold +
Goodluck trying to use dungeons for making gold as that as also been nerfed

The point I’m trying to make is Arenanet, can you please re-evaluate the costs of gear in this game because at the moment its insane to expect a “casual player” to attain good gear without loosing their sanity. One of the best things I liked about this company prior to the game’s release was how much you wanted to incorporate “fun” into the game. Having to grind day and night after reaching Level 80 for some gear is far from fun and because of that I had to give up pve because the gear-grind-treadmill you currently have players running is just plain wrong and goes against everything the game stands for

p.s. NO..I did not rush to level 80 I took part in as many events as I could and tried my best to attain as much gold as I could along the way only to be disappointed upon hitting level 80.

TL:DR Can you please fix the gear costs in this game so their at least realisticly attainable for the “average player” – without losing their sanity

*This game is supposed to be about fun, so why does the gearing process have to take that away from the game. Just a thought

First of all, CONGRATS! Second, what you don’t realize is that that VERY same gear not 2 weeks ago was 1/5 the price it is now. They said it’s because of an Exploit… well the exploit is fixed so why haven’t they brought it back down?

mechasauce.1309:

Stratto.3869:

Chris.7653:

Stratto.3869:

mechasauce.1309:

Soothsayer.9476:

Stratto.3869:

LostMK.4089:

good job Trion Riot ArenaNet

Well played. I’m OK with things taking time, but when you can actively see them expanding on that ammount of time it’s aggravating. I got a full time job and a partimer, I don’t have the time to farm for a few hours a day.

Then don’t farm for a few hours a day, why do you even need to? Because you want everything right now?

Dudes got a point…you have a choice…

I also chose to buy the game and play it the way I would like to. I have a choice to shoot myself in the head but I don’t. “You have a choice” That’s a weak reason. that’s like saying: You can either die in a fire, or slowly die from the temperature in your body increasing. “Well you had a choice” By voicing my opinion I have constructed a discussion to create new avenues. More “Choices” as it were. Please contribute to the conversation rather than just saying: “everything is alright” wait no, you can even say that, but don;t just regurgitate what you hear like a republican bobble head, think, construct, speak.

So what I am seeing by this is “I choose to play the game how I want to, I choose to grind” then turn around and saying “This is to much of a grind I hate it”. Then attempt some political slander….

Makes sense.

No sir, I was using what the previous poster said about: “choice” as an example of how that sort of thinking is irrational. We are being funneled into a grind slowly, and if you can’t see that than either you are trying hard not to, or just haven’t been paying attention. I was just informed that the reward for completing CoF is now 2 Silver, from 26 Silver. Tell me how that is justified? Now what I am seeing by this is either you are trying to troll, or just simply trying to redirect the conversation. I even stated in the very quote you used that this is an open invitation for us to speak our minds about how we feel about it. Not use subtle (as it LOOKED like you were trying to use sarcasm subtly) but obvious remarks to slander the poster.

I will correct you sir, that is not what I intended to say, and if it came off that way I apologize. What I meant to say is there are other routes that can be taken then the ones we think we are being given.

Seriously dude, sounds like you are going to have a heart attack from all this…maybe just calm down a bit, start up guild wars and farm some mobs for a few hours…

LOL it’s funny because you just pointed out one of the issues. Actually, I’m fine. I’m just a good debater and I’m sorry that you are getting scared for my health.

Dynellen.4739:

RaZaC.1963:

Small question how much time will it cost me to get the Sorrow’s Embrace exotic set?

Several days of nothing but running the same dungeon 24h a day.

Well not only that now, but you will actually start losing money from repair costs after this last patch. Enjoy

Chris.7653:

Stratto.3869:

mechasauce.1309:

Soothsayer.9476:

Stratto.3869:

LostMK.4089:

good job Trion Riot ArenaNet

Well played. I’m OK with things taking time, but when you can actively see them expanding on that ammount of time it’s aggravating. I got a full time job and a partimer, I don’t have the time to farm for a few hours a day.

Then don’t farm for a few hours a day, why do you even need to? Because you want everything right now?

Dudes got a point…you have a choice…

I also chose to buy the game and play it the way I would like to. I have a choice to shoot myself in the head but I don’t. “You have a choice” That’s a weak reason. that’s like saying: You can either die in a fire, or slowly die from the temperature in your body increasing. “Well you had a choice” By voicing my opinion I have constructed a discussion to create new avenues. More “Choices” as it were. Please contribute to the conversation rather than just saying: “everything is alright” wait no, you can even say that, but don;t just regurgitate what you hear like a republican bobble head, think, construct, speak.

So what I am seeing by this is “I choose to play the game how I want to, I choose to grind” then turn around and saying “This is to much of a grind I hate it”. Then attempt some political slander….

Makes sense.

No sir, I was using what the previous poster said about: “choice” as an example of how that sort of thinking is irrational. We are being funneled into a grind slowly, and if you can’t see that than either you are trying hard not to, or just haven’t been paying attention. I was just informed that the reward for completing CoF is now 2 Silver, from 26 Silver. Tell me how that is justified? Now what I am seeing by this is either you are trying to troll, or just simply trying to redirect the conversation. I even stated in the very quote you used that this is an open invitation for us to speak our minds about how we feel about it. Not use subtle (as it LOOKED like you were trying to use sarcasm subtly) but obvious remarks to slander the poster.

I will correct you sir, that is not what I intended to say, and if it came off that way I apologize. What I meant to say is there are other routes that can be taken then the ones we think we are being given.

Of course, media now is all advertisement, the times of people asking intelligent and hard questions is over. Now we have bands that sound the same, news that isn’t news, movies that dull the senses, and games that aren’t games. Too bad Zipper died, they at least listened and interacted with their consumers.

DrixTrix.7168:

fair doo’s my freind!

i have been playing since headstart day 1 (though im not 80 just yet) and im wondering was it all the way through or just nearer the end(s)of the storys and DE locations? i havnt seen or heard anything miss matching in my time :P

Well in the early days the mid level(40-60) to high lvl (60-80) had issue such as constant bugging, cut scenes freezing, quests not updating, npcs refusing to move. The player base had to find a way to make sure the NPC’s went through the checklists, we had to come up with pretty unique was to get the quests to work. I have to give the Devs props, from what I’ve seen they’ve fixed hundreds of quest issues, but there are still a TON out there. It just comes with time, but when you get to the last boss of ARAH exp andthe door to him doesnt open after you just defeated a boss that was so tough you though it WAS the last one (Giganticus Lupicus) you get a little…. “Upset” I’m glad you have had a smooth run so far sir!

Gauradan.8361:

It might not be fear of punishment, but rather denial. Some people might not want to admit that the cash shop destroyed every principle ArenaNet and the game stood for. I also hoped the game would be what it was promising 2-3 years ago. It’s clearly not and that’s not because ArenaNet couldn’t have pulled it off, but because they (or NcSoft) figured that with all the hype surrounding the game, they could add more inconveniences in the game in order to encourage cash shop usage. What we’re seeing here is NcSoft heavily milking the only succesful game it has.

I couldn’t Agree more. I would love for them to swoop down and prove us wrong. I would welcome a discussion with the Devs, because I have harder questions than the ones they prematurely agree with in the interviews they have.

DrixTrix.7168:

a problem? ok… i know this isnt a single player but for instance Skyrim has no repair costs and nothing to spend your gold on and no consequences.

do you really want a game like that? no conseqences for the wrong choices and nothing to spend your gold on? even if it is repairs? pfft sorry but i cant understand that point of view howeber i do respect it.

‘’No More Grind’’

i cant see any grind what so ever all i see is an enjoyable experence, now if working or earning money to get a new set you might like is a grind then i see no future for gaming, if theres nothing to work towards even as little as armor sets for vanity as is GW2 or dungeons to get an item then i dont think the MMO is for you, hell alot of games arnt.

grind to me means: the same thing over and over and over and over with no enjoyment.

now while we do alot of dungeons the explorable modes are genius, different bosses etc? yes please a different experence whenever we enter and theres so MANY DE’s (1500 i belive which also trigger some minor others) they all have story and dilouge and im sorry but if you dont like story and dilouge and learning about this fantasy world them the MMORPG is probably not the right choice of gaming.

Love Story and Dialogue. It is obvious to me you weren’t in the “front Lines” so you didn’t see all the issues that are still being resolved: for instance on Story modes sometime the sound isn’t there and otehr times the written dialogue doens’t match what is being said. When you hit lvl 80, you’ll understand.

Gauradan.8361:

Soothsayer.9476:

Stratto.3869:

LostMK.4089:

good job Trion Riot ArenaNet

Well played. I’m OK with things taking time, but when you can actively see them expanding on that ammount of time it’s aggravating. I got a full time job and a partimer, I don’t have the time to farm for a few hours a day.

Then don’t farm for a few hours a day, why do you even need to? Because you want everything right now?

Have you ever tried not to be a mindless fanboy? They promised a game without gruelling grinds. Now, when it’s released, we find out the endgame is even grindier than in other MMOs. Then, when people find ways to elude the grind or make it easier, they nerf them. Why? As the OP pointed out, they’re trying to coerce you into spending money on gems (perhaps more money per month than you would have paid for a subscription). I would rather have paid 13 euros per month than have the game become this pile of dung designed to make you use the shop.

Fine transmutation stones used to be available for karma. Now, you hardly ever get them in the world, so store’s the way to go.

Repairs were something they weren’t even considering a year or two ago, yet here they are.

Traits were promised not to have a respec cost, yet here it is.

They claimed mounts weren’t needed because we had waypoints. Yet who would’ve known they would cost so much?

Because of the store, certain areas of the game are worse than even Guild Wars 1 (travel was free there, there was no armor damage).

No matter how much perfume you put on a pile of dung it will still stink. Despite the viral marketing, despite the crappy trailer that tells us about how they are innovating the genre, some people can still see that the endgame was designed to be a korean grind (a la NcSoft), designed to encourage you to use the store.

^THAT is exactly what I am calling them out on. It s HUGE Problem that everyone knows about in the back of their heads but they are too concerned with punishment to actually bring it up. We, as the consumers shouldn’t have to be scared of repercussions for voicing our opinion. After all we did pay for a product based on the message of “NO MORE GRIND”