Guild Wars 2

nacario.9417:

To much focus on what damage thief and warrior does compared to each other, remind yourself of what each class has that is unique, and also counting the other 6 classes, not thief vs warr. I would agree the zerker rifle warr being op if he would be as strong single target dmg like with survivability, but it doesnt add up. A thief can shadowstep larger distances with its unique initiative mechanic, stealth features, with ability to dodge more. A rifle warrior cannot do that. But now were just repeating ourselves. Maybe tempest could make this thread in warrior forum, since its not going anywhere here than sheer entertainment.

A zerker warrior can also one-shot a thief, then start kiting if he is being focused.

A zerker warrior also has 3 utilities 2 dodges and an elite.

A zerker warrior is no way behind of thief in terms of mobility. While a thief needs initiative to do damage, this means he won’t have initiative to run away in that moment (see the risk=reward right here?) But a zerker warrior can use 1 set of weapon for kiting( just like thief with SB except not needing initiative) and his utilities, while having high HP and high armor and regen.

A thief can dodge more, because he needs to dodge more just to be able to survive. A warrior doesn’t need to dodge that more either.

But yeah, I am also keep repeating myself because even though original post is right there, people keep changing the scenario and modifying it to their like to show how right they are.

lighter.2708:

Lol, small scale full zerer warrior is safer? please, in a small scale when endure pain is gone, a full zerker warrior is a dead warrior

thief has on demand stealth application to remove focus and that’s why i only play thief in wvw to avoid getting gang kittened
l2p k thx bye.

I think real persons need more than stealth to forget about a thief in the battlefield. Kill-shot warrior can use his second set to run away also. Power rangers are able to live, why would a min 1200 range warrior be dead?

I can’t beliave all people here still try to hang on to the scenario of 1v1 with the warrior to prove themselves right.

It never was and never will be about dueling with the warrior.

My latency is not the issue here. The issue is your lack of ability to understand what is written.

Nobody is talking about dueling. Except you.

There isnt even a 1v1 mode in this game also.

Small scale fights is what this game is all about.

In Small scale fights, a zerker kill-shot warrior is able to do the same of a zerker thief, only easier and safer.

Not a single thief even though I am the squishest thing on the battlefield, was able to one-shot me with any of said combos. 1.5 sec of stun and a lot of damage yes. BUT I can easily use Shadowstep or Withdraw plus Shadow Refuge to get away right after stun ends. A bullet that hits you more than your Max HP, does not allow you to use any of your abilities. Because you are downed the moment it hits you.

IF it was 1v1, dodging would have been easy. Even though its A LOT harder with high latency, it is still possible. Nothing would have been an issue here.

BUT

It wasn’t 1v1. This post was never about 1v1.

And NO, your claims about how you can see 10+ people at the SAME time and understand what they are doing, while also focusing on your target does not save you. It is humanly not possible.

Kill-shot is an issue on anything from small scale to zerg battles. Because it is one-shot from a safe range.

Instead of a thief that needs to get in melee range in order to deal close to the damage of kill-shot, Warrior do it from 1500 range. No need to get in melee range. No need to risk getting hit by knockbacks or AoE. It is NO RISK = HIGH REWARD for the warrior.

The issue is this and nothing else. There is no latency. It is simple logic. The topic is this and ONLY this.

BUT THATS NOT ALL;

I also agreed to nerf on one-shotting of any classes. And that includes thieves as well. (still no example of that though). But removing ones ability to one-shot does not mean nerfing its total damage. Those are 2 diffrent things.

Thieves are all about risk = reward. Hope we are all clear about this. Melee range for damage, since shortbow’s nerf after nerf left us use it mainly for mobility.

Now we can all agree that small scale battles are the most common type of engagement in this game? Wheter in sPvP or WvW. 1v1 is more rare than a Zerg vs Zerg fight.

A Full zerker warrior traited for ultimate damage can easily kill people from a range 1200-1500. That can be behind of his zerg or close to frontlines. Not requiring to jump on the backline of enemy and risk his life. That aside, his high HP pool, Heavy Armor and his all-time HP regen saves his skin enough times even in a huge fights with skill lag.

A thief on the other hand, even if able to do same or let’s assume more damage, he/she needs to jump on enemy, where in a sec or less, will be caught in a AoE from someone that has not even seen the thief untill the thief is dead, or ranger specificly waiting for a thief on the backlines because he knows it’s the only thing a thief can do in a engagement beside being a venom share bot or a medic (pathetic really…) or any class or person actually, that uses a CC or just auto-attack. And the thief will be dead. Last Refuge, Shadow Refuge, Shadowstep or any other thing won’t save the thief in that moment. Because It all happens in a split second. If thief chooses to go more tanky spec, he/she won’t have enough damage output to “assassinate” his/her target and live long enough to get away either.

So if you look at the both proffession and what they can achieve while how much skill or action they require to work, you should be accepting the fact that thieves stay far behind the warrior.

So in all fairness, I really think that;

Thieves are actually; risk > reward

Whereas Warriors, risk = reward, if not risk < reward.

Also, all I suggested was, removing any classes ability to one-shot one another no matter how squishy they are. Jumping on someone unaware of you should give you the advantage yes. And more, if the target is squishy. But it should not win you the fight in that very millisecond.

Second suggestion I made( or the first one since its on my first post) was to increase the damage output a thief can do, in order to turn him in to a proper assassin, unlike the fly they are now. This can be done in a way of modifying some skills or improving the some useless skills we have now. (Death Blossom for power based builds, Dancing Dagger to be usefull other than a Aegis breaker or 2-3 sec cripple). Now I don’t claim these suggestions are perfect or anything. I am sure better modifications can be done to these skills if really wanted.

A side note: I left playing the game on prime times due to having high latency. I get 90-200 latency out of prime times which is not perfect but playable. I decided to main a DPS guardian because I beliave they are the true example of risk = reward gameplay. Also ability to counter almost every thief build is like the cherry on top.

nacario.9417:

There isnt a single person in this thread that agrees with you Tempest. Any person comming here seeking advice would take such into account and be alittle humble about it. Now after 4 pages this should be quite clear, and since you still come back with little things you comment on just to boost your selfpreservation, I suggest leaving it like that. If we are such trolls, and you the bright one, then leave us be, as the answers you seek cant be found in this knowledge base..

There were a few, but unfortunately this forum is crawling with trolls since god knows when (probably right after launch), they simply gave up arguing with you. Well, a full fledged troll like Sir Vincent that is on these forums 24/7 kinda leaves no choice.

Puck.9612:

Tempest.4507:

…aaaaaand where are the one-shots? The very first fight in the first video; a mesmer probably sorting out his inventory as when a thief CnD and Backstabs him, he just keeps running, a necro that leaves his Full Death Shroud the moment he expect a backstab because “Why the hell not?”, an elementalist that pops out his Earth Shield and turns his back to a thief and keeps running. Not a single dodge from all 3 of them.

OP Thief.

Now you understand how everyone feels about your complaints about rifle warriors being OP

Yet none of thieves attacks were one-shot. Good try though.

“Knowing when to dodge is more of a core mechanic for thieves than it is a core mechanic for warriors. Granted, dodging is a core mechanic for all classes, but it has more impact and centrality to the thief playstyle. This does not make the actual class harder or easier to play, there is just more weight centered on evasion.” – It kinda does. Dodging is simply harder as it requires more attention on whats going on around you and faster reflexes compared to just staying on the target and doing your 3-4-1 rotations or whatever it is.

“staying on your opponent is also a playstyle. Warriors have little to no evades, and they usually have their builds centered around damage soaking in exchange for being slow and having their most damaging skills come with a huge windup.” – Staying on top of your opponent is also needed by thief in order to deal fair amount of damage. It is a trade off that warriors simply don’t need to do.

“I don’t think thieves need a damage buff to compensate for this reliance. they already have access to several defensive measures that make it difficult to target them, and good thieves can get the drop on you and escape almost as easily. The worst thing anet could do to thief in terms of balancing is make it possible for them to down heavies from out of nowhere in a couple of seconds if they aren’t full glass. They’d go from being ‘potentially op’ to just plain broken.” – Increasing simple skills damage (Death Blossom, Auto-attack, Dancing Dagger or whatever), while reducing the backstab or just changing the way it damages, is kind of removing our “one-shot” ability (not that I think we have) while also puting us on equal foot with other melee classes.

Cronicle.5691:

Tempest.4507:

Cronicle.5691:

I notice one thing which is the reason your not getting higher than 6k… Your not running assassins signet. That there my friend is your 9k backstab booster.

You have to remember that Assassins signet boosts your next 5 attacks by 15%.

If you have built your Thief right to be an assassin and do burst damage. Then you would most likely have built it 5/6/0/0/3 taking all the damaging traits like Dagger training, mug, furious retaliation, Executioner etc. So the damage increase alone is 10% when your opponent has a condition (Steal applies poison and poison applies weakness), 10% when initiative is above 6 (You have 15 initiative from trickery so its not a problem. and 20% extra damage when target is below 50% health. That there alone is a killer boost in damage and when fighting beserker players you are going to hit them hard when you pop that Assassins signet.

It boosts your Steal damage, your cloak and dagger damage, and your backstab. Steal and backstab alone combined with sigils of air and fire should be enough to put your opponent to 50% health where executioner is going into play with the extra 15% from assassins signet which is a whooping total of 60% increased damage on that backstab which will melt your opponent. Now the tricky part is of course to set it up and then finish off your opponent because most classes and players now know how to counter or play around it so it just comes down to the better player in reality.

I tried all of those. Never one-shotted anyone.Also It is still not counted as one-shot. Basilisk Venom stuns for 1.5 sec, after that time if the target still lives, he/she pops immunity or whatever they have and either run or reset the fight. But please show me a recording of a thief that kills upscaled people with this combo in EotM or a recording that is a year or more old and before the crit nerfs.

….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rc1Kwf89Www

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PDvwyljrws

Honestly i dont know why you couldn’t search that yourself or did you want me to just prove you a point? If you have 233% crit damage your going to see some good numbers on a crit.

Btw these videos arnt with assassins signet and look at still the damage they do. They are glassy and they would go down fast if they are caught with their pants down.

…aaaaaand where are the one-shots? The very first fight in the first video; a mesmer probably sorting out his inventory as when a thief CnD and Backstabs him, he just keeps running, a necro that leaves his Full Death Shroud the moment he expect a backstab because “Why the hell not?”, an elementalist that pops out his Earth Shield and turns his back to a thief and keeps running. Not a single dodge from all 3 of them.

OP Thief.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Tempest.4507:

If a proffesion is harder to play than some other proffesion yet they are equally powerful, then they are not so equal at all.

Thief requires > Lightning reflexes, (try dodging with 400 latency.) ability to see what everyone is doing in 1500 range of you at the same time and/or lucky dodges. Pray that you don’t die to some lucky yet deadly instant cast AoE attack while you are in stealth.

?

4 pages of this because you lag?

If you have latency issues and that makes playing a thief abysmally hard for you, why not just roll a warrior instead of trying to imply that something is fundamentally wrong with the class?

I said about the lag on my very first post. You read that now?

That aside, with latency or not. Dodging is still harder than facerolling your opponent.

Also, nerfing a classes ability to one-shot OR ability to make a combo attack that is close to one-shot doesn’t mean that nerfing its damage.

Increasing the damage of auto-attack, Dancing Dagger, changing or improving Death Blossom to work in power builds while nerfing backstab or changing how it scales with power ( can be made to hit for a percentage of opponents HP, based on the power thief has) can be done at the same time. These are the ideas I came up within seconds. I am sure better things can be done.

Cronicle.5691:

I notice one thing which is the reason your not getting higher than 6k… Your not running assassins signet. That there my friend is your 9k backstab booster.

You have to remember that Assassins signet boosts your next 5 attacks by 15%.

If you have built your Thief right to be an assassin and do burst damage. Then you would most likely have built it 5/6/0/0/3 taking all the damaging traits like Dagger training, mug, furious retaliation, Executioner etc. So the damage increase alone is 10% when your opponent has a condition (Steal applies poison and poison applies weakness), 10% when initiative is above 6 (You have 15 initiative from trickery so its not a problem. and 20% extra damage when target is below 50% health. That there alone is a killer boost in damage and when fighting beserker players you are going to hit them hard when you pop that Assassins signet.

It boosts your Steal damage, your cloak and dagger damage, and your backstab. Steal and backstab alone combined with sigils of air and fire should be enough to put your opponent to 50% health where executioner is going into play with the extra 15% from assassins signet which is a whooping total of 60% increased damage on that backstab which will melt your opponent. Now the tricky part is of course to set it up and then finish off your opponent because most classes and players now know how to counter or play around it so it just comes down to the better player in reality.

I tried all of those. Never one-shotted anyone.Also It is still not counted as one-shot. Basilisk Venom stuns for 1.5 sec, after that time if the target still lives, he/she pops immunity or whatever they have and either run or reset the fight. But please show me a recording of a thief that kills upscaled people with this combo in EotM or a recording that is a year or more old and before the crit nerfs.

I just love how some people troll 24/7 on the forums instead of actually playing the game. Very amusing.

lazycalm.5186:

Everyone’s missing the biggest clue here.
The dude plays with a minimum of 170ms latency and it goes to 200-300.

You won’t be able to play thief with that latency.
Reroll or be frustrated.

I know. Thing is, I can’t decide which class to play. Game is not friendly towards high latency. Melee auto-attacks doesn’t even hit even though I am a meter away from the guy, because in reality I am not even in the melee range. I tried Ranger with LB, it was much easier and I was able to do much more even though I had almost no real experience with it, still it requires fast reflexes and dodges I if wanna survive in hard fights.

All the tanky proffesions are mostly melee. So it is like a trade off for me. I either go with a more mistake forgiving melee class that is hard to play for me due to high latency OR I go with a ranged class that is less forgiving in mistakes due to being squishy.

So yes, melee and squishy is the worst option for me.

Still, my opinion stands; one-shotting is killing the real fun in this game. Needing to check every single thing on the battlefield just to survive a single shot is just Try Harding.

If a proffesion is harder to play than some other proffesion yet they are equally powerful, then they are not so equal at all.

Thief requires > Lightning reflexes, (try dodging with 400 latency.) ability to see what everyone is doing in 1500 range of you at the same time and/or lucky dodges. Pray that you don’t die to some lucky yet deadly instant cast AoE attack while you are in stealth.

Warrior requires > Stay on top of your enemy, use a rotation of skills to immobilize,stun,knockdown etc., Spam your auto-attack. Bored of facerolling your enemies? Switch to rifle to one-shot from 1500 range.

To people that say “but but thief can also do 15k backstabs and 5k CnD and 2k mug and bla bla”. I never defended one-shotting in any of my post. Actually, I even said that if we are also able to one-shot, then it should also be adressed.

BladeShadow.5423:

Same thing here, 1 file that seems never ending.

Same. I have reached 1047 mb. What about you? lol

It starts downloading for a mere seconds then goes back to 0 kb/s for another 15 secs just to start again.

Reavan.8753:

‘You do not agree with my ignorant views so thou be a troll.’

Lmao.

Can also be said for you and many other people in here.

Rezzet.3614:

lets list the number of options you had:
shadowstep and blind
stealth and blind
shadowstep out of range
evade
drop range attack blocking smoke field
daze
stun
reflect if you had the elite
blind

you simply got careless, why are you trying to convince us you’re the world’s best perfect player that does nothing wrong?

looking at your log:
you spammed heartseeker expecting a free win
you forgot your shortbow wich i do see on your back has infiltrator arrow wich shadowsteps and aoe blinds

and disabling shot wich is an evade that criples

wich means if you hadnt spammed heartseeker blindly you wouldnt had died

I think you missed a very important point in your story. Warrior was never in the fight to begin with. His only attack was Kill-shot. Those all other logs are for the ranger I was fighting with. This whole post isn’t about dueling with the said warrior either. Door is that way. Thank you.

Edit: Props to you for calling it “Heartseeker spam” even though there is only 1 heartseeker on combat log. There is also no bow on my back either.

nacario.9417:

Tempest.4507:

Narkodx.1472:

Tempest.4507:

Narkodx.1472:

This thread has all kinds of fail in it

1. If rifle/warrior were truly OP and needed balancing you should post in the Warrior forums not the thief forums
2. Clearly rifle is not OP in fact.. it was just buffed and STILL a rifle warrior is not meta for anything in this game except killing noob thieves who aren’t paying attention
3. L2P you have 3 utilities 2 dodges and stealth/evade on every weapon set you can mitigate a kill shot at ANY time unless you have no endurance/utilities/initiative in which case you got outplayed

Please stop responding to everyone the game has been live for almost THREE years now – No one thinks “Kill Shot” is overpowered we have learned to play eventually you will too – just let it go

1- And that automaticly makes me wrong? I am not surprised.

3- According to your statement, If kill-shot is only able to one-shot thieves, it is a balancing issue.

3-Every class has 3 dodges and 2 evades. Stealth doesn’t help againts Channel skills.

None of these matter when the warrior one-shots you at 1500 range when you clearly cannot see him. And no, seeing only his name tag is not enough.

Every class has 3 dodges and 2 evades? They do not work against channeled skills?

DO YOU NOT SEE WHY EVERYONE SAYS L2P?!

The necromancer for example wishes he had ANY evades

Please get off the forums and go in-game you aren’t going to get any better unless you actually PvP in-game and not in forums

That was a typo, fixed now.

Necromancer doesn’t even need any evades, he can just stay in one place and faceroll you.

So it isnt just warrior that is OP, also necro? Ive never seen one being able to facetank ppl and faceroll. In every reply ive been fair and patient but this is now getting to troll level. Either way i feel sorry for you, and wish u best of luck

Never said OP. A necromancer has fair amount of base HP, Death Shroud, Life Steal and Plague Form. They can tank pretty good. Thus they dont rely that much on evades.

This has been turning into a cave of trolls for a long time now. It is good that at least 1 of them is leaving.

Narkodx.1472:

Tempest.4507:

Narkodx.1472:

This thread has all kinds of fail in it

1. If rifle/warrior were truly OP and needed balancing you should post in the Warrior forums not the thief forums
2. Clearly rifle is not OP in fact.. it was just buffed and STILL a rifle warrior is not meta for anything in this game except killing noob thieves who aren’t paying attention
3. L2P you have 3 utilities 2 dodges and stealth/evade on every weapon set you can mitigate a kill shot at ANY time unless you have no endurance/utilities/initiative in which case you got outplayed

Please stop responding to everyone the game has been live for almost THREE years now – No one thinks “Kill Shot” is overpowered we have learned to play eventually you will too – just let it go

1- And that automaticly makes me wrong? I am not surprised.

3- According to your statement, If kill-shot is only able to one-shot thieves, it is a balancing issue.

3-Every class has 3 dodges and 2 evades. Stealth doesn’t help againts Channel skills.

None of these matter when the warrior one-shots you at 1500 range when you clearly cannot see him. And no, seeing only his name tag is not enough.

Every class has 3 dodges and 2 evades? They do not work against channeled skills?

DO YOU NOT SEE WHY EVERYONE SAYS L2P?!

The necromancer for example wishes he had ANY evades

Please get off the forums and go in-game you aren’t going to get any better unless you actually PvP in-game and not in forums

That was a typo, fixed now.

Necromancer doesn’t even need any evades, he can just stay in one place and faceroll you.

Simon.3794:

Actually if you are at 1500 range away, if you move a tiny bit and the killshot will be out of range. unless you just stand there and not move at all.

he must be like around 1000 range to you and you completely missed a dude that is kneeling for 1 second +.

while a thief can one shot mesmer and elementalist 2000 range away with no proper tell within less then one second is completely fine.

yes. better nerf thief hard according to your one shot argument.

If it was 50k range and you took a step away it would still be out of range. Therefor it is balanced. LOL

You really manage to sound it like 1 second is actually 1 min.

I said it before, you might wanna check the whole thing again. “No class should be able to one-shot any other class”. So, yes, if we are able to one-shot eles and mesmer then we also need a nerf on that. But you clearly didnt read that.

Nephrite.6954:

Tempest.4507:

nacario.9417:

It’s not about him being lucky to time evade, ideally you would want to dodge roll something to prevent damage, that mainly factors your own coordination ability (where you have to factor your own 400 ping). It’s very easy to point out that rifle Warrior can hit hard, but look at everything else he cannot do. Thats the reason that weapon set isnt generally used in WvW or SPvP. You said it yourself, it’s not all about 1v1, and more about what you can bring as a whole. That said, in a 1v1, a rifle warrior would lose as he doesnt have the Tools to sustain a longer fight, granted he fights a capable enemy. You lost because you didnt pay attention for a split second, same way zerker class X can kill someone quickly if they dont pay attention or use counter skills.

Surely it must be frustrating taking a one hit KO on your squishy thief, but know that the Warrior alone is kitten.

One more time…

You will not see anyone else while dueling with a person. Or rather, you won’t see them clearly. You will be focused on the enemy in front of you. And a warrior can easily one shot you from 1500 range. A range you won’t be able to see what is he doing. A range where he can literally sit on a wall or a hill which you will not be able to see because you don’t fight while looking at the sky.

Can an elementalist one-shot you from 1500 range? NO.
Can a necromancer one-shot you from 1500 range? NO.
Can a guardian one-shot you from 1500 range? NO.
Can an engineer one-shot you from 1500 range? NO.
Can a ranger one-shot you from 1500 range? NO. (Rapid Fire is not one-shot and gives you enough time to dodge,shadowstep, teleport, pop up invulnerability etc.)
Can a mesmer one-shot you from 1500 range? NO. (He needs to build up his burst through clones first. You still have time to disengage)
Can a thief one-shot you from 1500 range? Well guess what? NO. Why? Because it is still not one-shot and you still have time to pop-out your utility or whatever you have.)

All in all, it is widely known that warrior is the easiest class to play thus also known that it is the most played class. And if you are telling me that these 2 classes (warrior and thief) are perfectly balanced againts each other while playing a warrior is easier than playing a thief, then it is not really balanced at all.

I can’t agree with the statement about warriors being in a good spot currently. Yes all classes and OP in the hands of a truly experienced player obviously but right now the meta is not only beating the thief because the warriors are suffering similar faith as well if you take a closer look. In the opinion the easiest class to play right now would either be a power ranger or a cele engi. If you don’t believe me try rolling a warrior in ranked or unranked then you’ll know what I’m trying to inform you. I’ve tried this killshot warrior before and it’s really just a troll build. You can’t really blame him for taking you out with one shot when you’re running such a squishy build.

Try to one-shot the squishiest warrior you can have. Make him stand still and not use any skill. Fire a kill-shot that damages him for 14k (keep in mind warr wears heavy armor thus you need to have even higher power to do the same amount of damage).

It won’t happen.

Oh..I forgot the last step. Congragulate the warrior because he clearly survived the shot and it was because he was good.

MrForz.1953:

I honestly don’t know what to say now. If you introduce someone in a situation where “You’re focused on fighting your enemy” and therefore “you don’t look around”, it just feels plain wrong to anyone who roams for an extended period of time. Looking around is a necessity, and the roamers lacking the mobility to escape most of situations even grow paranoid about it, constantly using the Left Ctrl button to react accordingly if they see something red at a distance while fighting and sometimes using the moves they make to avoid some attacks to circle around the opponent and check.

For the Warrior itself, if you didn’t see him getting in combat, you’re already in major trouble, and all you need in order to handle his “Overpowered one shot skill” is to know the channeling time of Kill Shot. I’d be in more trouble if the enemy Warrior instead went berserk with melee weapons in the middle of my current fight.

At that point I’d tend to think the Kill Shot Warrior is just there to conceal the frustration you’ve had for having been stopped that brutally during your duel, something you couldn’t remedy with the “blink+stealth when losing the fight” tactic because you died before even thinking about it.

On top of it, for all you could apparently know due to being ‘so focused on your target’, a zerg train led by a Commander could have run through you as well. Right?

Warrior technicly doesn’t even need to enter the combat.

Chanelling time of Kill-shot is much lower than a warrior going melee and using his other skills. Which on top of that, much easier to see.

Of course a 50 man group should be able to kill me without me having a chance to escape if I did not see them coming. It is 1v50. A single warrior should not be able to do the same thing of a zerg do.

Narkodx.1472:

This thread has all kinds of fail in it

1. If rifle/warrior were truly OP and needed balancing you should post in the Warrior forums not the thief forums
2. Clearly rifle is not OP in fact.. it was just buffed and STILL a rifle warrior is not meta for anything in this game except killing noob thieves who aren’t paying attention
3. L2P you have 3 utilities 2 dodges and stealth/evade on every weapon set you can mitigate a kill shot at ANY time unless you have no endurance/utilities/initiative in which case you got outplayed

Please stop responding to everyone the game has been live for almost THREE years now – No one thinks “Kill Shot” is overpowered we have learned to play eventually you will too – just let it go

1- And that automaticly makes me wrong? I am not surprised.

3- According to your statement, If kill-shot is only able to one-shot thieves, it is a balancing issue.

3-Every class has 3 utilities and 2 dodges. Stealth doesn’t help againts Channel skills.

None of these matter when the warrior one-shots you at 1500 range when you cannot see him clearly. And no, seeing only his name tag is not enough.

nacario.9417:

It’s not about him being lucky to time evade, ideally you would want to dodge roll something to prevent damage, that mainly factors your own coordination ability (where you have to factor your own 400 ping). It’s very easy to point out that rifle Warrior can hit hard, but look at everything else he cannot do. Thats the reason that weapon set isnt generally used in WvW or SPvP. You said it yourself, it’s not all about 1v1, and more about what you can bring as a whole. That said, in a 1v1, a rifle warrior would lose as he doesnt have the Tools to sustain a longer fight, granted he fights a capable enemy. You lost because you didnt pay attention for a split second, same way zerker class X can kill someone quickly if they dont pay attention or use counter skills.

Surely it must be frustrating taking a one hit KO on your squishy thief, but know that the Warrior alone is kitten.

One more time…

You will not see anyone else while dueling with a person. Or rather, you won’t see them clearly. You will be focused on the enemy in front of you. And a warrior can easily one shot you from 1500 range. A range you won’t be able to see what is he doing. A range where he can literally sit on a wall or a hill which you will not be able to see because you don’t fight while looking at the sky.

Can an elementalist one-shot you from 1500 range? NO.
Can a necromancer one-shot you from 1500 range? NO.
Can a guardian one-shot you from 1500 range? NO.
Can an engineer one-shot you from 1500 range? NO.
Can a ranger one-shot you from 1500 range? NO. (Rapid Fire is not one-shot and gives you enough time to dodge,shadowstep, teleport, pop up invulnerability etc.)
Can a mesmer one-shot you from 1500 range? NO. (He needs to build up his burst through clones first. You still have time to disengage)
Can a thief one-shot you from 1500 range? Well guess what? NO. Why? Because it is still not one-shot and you still have time to pop-out your utility or whatever you have.)

All in all, it is widely known that warrior is the easiest class to play thus also known that it is the most played class. And if you are telling me that these 2 classes (warrior and thief) are perfectly balanced againts each other while playing a warrior is easier than playing a thief, then it is not really balanced at all.

nacario.9417:

Tempest.4507:

Revanought Lord.9532:

Right then, I came to the thief forums looking for something interesting to read, and what do I find? This beautiful gem of a thread that had enough lols to fuel the rofl copter.

From what I have read (and yes I read the whole thread), people have pointed out that you don’t seem to know the basic mechanics of thief such as dodging, stealth, weapon switching for utility and even something as mundane as walking and when people tell you something productive, you don’t think about what they are actually saying and immediately call them trolls or stupid followed up by you checking all of their past messages for some reason.
To me this looks like a serious case of L2P (yes even with lag it is doable) and at the same time a case of deflate your ego and take advice from the people who gave you some.

Anyway keep the rofl copter spinning Tempest xD

You just gotta love those people, hoping out of no where, claiming that they read the whole post from start to end, and then saying “this person is right, you are wrong, because I said so. I can’t give you the reasons because there is none.”

At 400 latency, you have something like 1-1.5 sec of action delay. That includes dodges as well. So please go ahead and tell me that you always play with lag and and it’s totally manageable and you can easily dodge a 1.25 cast time skill.

Can we go back to the start then, what was your issue again? Do you consider yourself a good theif with enough insight to claim other classes/builds, e.g rifle warrior overpowered? Why are you struggling on your thief, is it cuz u have high ping but want to win still/it shouldnt be a factor? There are many here that have pointed out what you couldve done diferently, to put it gently, but you seem uninterested in their, to me, logical and experienced answer. If you want them to treat you differently then perhaps change your tone

Oh and please do watch the newly https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cYisLHaUjc
This is a perfect example of how to utilize a thief and succeed vs other classes, even some considered to be counter. Perhaps you can learn from this? It also showcases what other classes can not do.

Now imagine, on the video you linked, in any of those fights while he is dueling. Imagine a warrior popping out his adrenaline signet and pressing F1 from top of a hill or something, on our thief. If he is not lucky enough to accidently time his evade, he will be on the ground in that instant. And you guys would call this……skill? That the warrior bested him? That It was his mistake to not look at everywhere while also focusing on the guy he is dueling? You really call this “balanced” ?

This is an MMO, not Call of Duty where you can kill a guy with throwing knife that ricocheted from a wall and hits the guys pinky toe. Or sniping from the other side of the map, which fits the “Kill-shot” even more.

No Class should be able to one-shot any other class no matter how squishy or glass cannon they are. Because It takes away the skill. And It is even WORSE if that said one-shot can happen from a 1500 range distance, over the hill or top of the wall, from a safe place.

Any person that says “You got one-shotted because you were full-zerker (like thieves can go bunker and kill any class)” or "you should have ran away when you have seen that warrior “critting” you ( Are you for real?)" or “you died because you weren’t watching everything and every player around you at the same time” just want to continue one-shot people and think they are better than them, all the while it was because their cheesy builds allowed them to do so, not their skill.

It’s pretty stupid to talk about balance in a game where there isn’t even a 1v1 mode in the first place. Only think a thief can 1v1 in sPvP is either other thieves or shatter mesmers. That is also a fact. I am not saying you won’t ever kill other classes. You can even kill a medi-guard if they don’t know how to play or how to counter a thief. But if you at least watched some pro-level tournaments you will see that thieves only jobs are decapping and outnumbering fights(in which case, any class that outnumbers a fight can do the job, some even better. But thieves SB mobility allow them to quickly move out of fights to go decap or cap and thats why thieves are chosen for this job).

Revanought Lord.9532:

Right then, I came to the thief forums looking for something interesting to read, and what do I find? This beautiful gem of a thread that had enough lols to fuel the rofl copter.

From what I have read (and yes I read the whole thread), people have pointed out that you don’t seem to know the basic mechanics of thief such as dodging, stealth, weapon switching for utility and even something as mundane as walking and when people tell you something productive, you don’t think about what they are actually saying and immediately call them trolls or stupid followed up by you checking all of their past messages for some reason.
To me this looks like a serious case of L2P (yes even with lag it is doable) and at the same time a case of deflate your ego and take advice from the people who gave you some.

Anyway keep the rofl copter spinning Tempest xD

You just gotta love those people, hoping out of no where, claiming that they read the whole post from start to end, and then saying “this person is right, you are wrong, because I said so. I can’t give you the reasons because there is none.”

At 400 latency, you have something like 1-1.5 sec of action delay. That includes dodges as well. So please go ahead and tell me that you always play with lag and and it’s totally manageable and you can easily dodge a 1.25 cast time skill.

Turk.5460:

It makes perfect sense to me, and pretty much everyone else who’s laughing at’cha. I haven’t made any claims of my own, but rather have been pointing out that your fellow thieves do not agree with you – and for some reason you think every single one of them is wrong and you are right.

You came here to vent, hoping others would back you up and vent with you. When they did not… you made a fool of yourself and are continuing to make a fool of yourself, even after other thieves have been giving you logical and heartfelt constructive feedback.

What are the odds that all of them are wrong and you are right? But please, continue telling us how its impossible to play our profession in ways that we are playing every day.

Of course it is gonna make sense to you. It is gonna make sense to anyone with only big mouth and bold claims but no action. If you haven’t made any “claims” what are you doing in here anyway? Waste of time. Mostly for me.

I came here with facts and proofs. When no one was able to counter it with facts, they tried their cheap “L2P” and bashing tactics which also failed. And those that gave really logical and heartfelt constructive feedback has been asnwered with respect.

Couldn’t expect any less from a comunity that QQ’ed for years for thief nerfs and of course just like any sane company would do, Anet was forced to listen rather than lose it’s whiny money kittenting playerbase. But please keep writing here without any point in your posts. It is really strange that all the thieves who are EXPERT at playing, spend most of their times in thief forums arguing and claiming what they can do, rather than actually doing them.

Turk.5460:

But we come here for comic relief! We can’t just let a free stand-up show pass us by!
??Keep dishing out that comedy gold, you marvelous person. ??

Exactly the same reason I come here at least once a day because it’s been long proven that none of you have the intelligence to actually prove your claims. Just look at that trolls post. Don’t know how he do it, but he manages to write a wall of non-sense every single time. Kudos.

Bran.7425:

I just wish someone would get the thread renamed to something like: ‘This happened a while ago and I won’t let it go’

I am not the one that won’t let it go though. I just log in once a day in hope that somoene with brains might have written a post. Sadly though, all i can find is you guys bashing. Well, if you are really bored of it, I have a great announcement for you! You can actually “let it go”. Amazing, right?

Turk.5460:

Eventually we can just agree with all of this guy’s posts, and he’ll probably continue to quote and “counter” our posts, blissfully unaware of his own foolishness.

Still not a single viable counter-argument has been made. But I love these kitten kind of posts. You know, the ones that only has trashing in it. Keep em coming.

“The Warrior has been critting you, from your own provided image, yet you refuse to step back and evaluate your hopeless and reckless approach.” – Are you mentally challanged or what? I have told you this before, there is no “critting”. There is no time to think or anything. It’s “one-shot”. Death in a second, a bullet coming out of my field of view, from full health to downed. Is it really that hard for you to understand?

“So using the utility skills that can save your behind is a bothersome affair?” – Of course it is not. And I use it all the time. Except “Kill-shot” can be used 5 times more than my utility.

“L2P Thief 101
1) If moving can get you out of range from your target (i.e. 100-Blades). Do it
2) If HS can get you out of range from your target (i.e. AoE, channel). Do it
3) If all else fail, use shadowstep.” – HS to get out of 100-Blades is pretty stupid, as expected from you. But please use your HS to for evades. I would love to see a thief do that and fail.

“Every one who KNOWS how to play Thief that it only takes 2xHS to get outside of 1500 range.” – No It won’t. But please make a video and show me. I really wanna see it.

“Here’s a hint – Swiftness” – I know full well that swiftness or any other speed increasing buffs also increases the range of leaping skills. Problem is you can’t count on having swiftness all the time. If you try to apply swiftness though, before using HS, by the time you get it, you will already be lying in the ground.

“Nah, you didn’t, else it would be fairly obvious on how to get out of range. Nice try.” – Do you also still believe in Santa? No need to answer. It is pretty obvious.

“Figures. You see, there’s a big difference on looking at the tool tip than actually playing the Thief. You’ll know this when you L2P one.” – Again, just claiming things againts my proofs. You are sinking.

I have concluded that you are just a troll living in a cave with Wi-Fi who just logs in to thief forums everyday to troll. Well…it was fun arguing with you, as fun as arguing with a 6 year old. I am very happy to announce that any further posts you write will be totally ignored. Feel free to spam more L2P, just like spamming HS. Maybe you will be able to evade something with it or get out of the range of kill-shot one day. Boy I would really liked to see that.

Turk.5460:

I hope you guys like stories -

~This is a heartbreaking tale of a community of Thieves trying to help another Thief who just-doesn’t-get it. Some of his brothers are harshly criticizing their inexperienced colleague, others taking a more matronly tone, trying to nurture the young Thief’s growth. But alas, he just didn’t get it.
The End.~

A masterpiece! Symbolism! Coming of age! Action! Love! Soon to be a major motion picture playing on an Aetherblade Holocoder near you!

I think you missed your kindergarten. You might wanna seek some professional help.

SoulSin.5682:

Tempest.4507:

SoulSin.5682:

Tempest.4507:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Tempest.4507:

ppl can still see you because of floating damage numbers

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-

New thief. Play first complain later.

They don’t see damage numbers when stealthed. Any implication that they see you is them guessing (successfully) where you are.

People should learn to read the whole thread before writing anything. You make more fun of yourself while trying to make fun of someone else.

We’ve read the whole thread a few times already. It’s just you that refuses to see the truth.

If dodging, blinding, interrupting, staying out of range or behind the warrior aren’t real solutions to you, you might change your full berserk to valkyries and never get one shoot again.

Worth mentioning that the standard Valk thief walks around with 15~18k HP and will NEVER get one shooted by a sniper warrior. (which is a build only used by bad warriors, since its a gimmick/fun build)

What…I don’t even…Have you even read what the guy wrote?

You might edit your first post then because you clearly wrote down that players “can still see you because of floating damage numbers” on it.
And no, the glitch excuse won’t cut it. The Thief boards would be an uproar if such a bug was in the game. (its probably a side effect from lag)

We are not here to troll you. Emi, Sir Vincent III, Quakeman and even PsyKoOz (in a sarcastic way) gave you proper answers of how to counter that very specific Warrior build.

And like I said, you can always change to Valkyries and walk with 16k HP or more and not get sniped.

I don’t need to prove anything to you, just like you don’t need to prove anything to me. But if you only take some parts of my whole post and ignore the rest, well…it’s only fitting that I do the same to you, isn’t that right?

sigh

“The image you posted don’t lie.” – And?

“That’s why you have shadowstep. If you don’t know what shadowstep is for, like wasting it to get in melee range, then you really have a L2P issue.” – I know full well what is shadowstep, the thing is, ,its requiring me to switch to my shortbow that does funny damage compared to my daggers or needing me to use my 1 time ability is not helping againts a 7 sec cooldown 1-shoting ability. Learn 2 Math.

“Getting out of range is not the same as running away. Every decent Thief knows the difference.” – Alright. Is it a secret though? Are you gonna tell me this big secret or you are just gonna claim that I am bad and you are good and pretty much that’s it?

“Nope. That’s just you. More than likely that those who play Thief knows how to play Thief. So for your sake, L2P Thief.” – Good advice. As expected from you.

“Simple. You failed to use HS to get out of range, which is the only real reason is that you have your training-wheels (auto-targetting) on.” – So I should have used HS and not shadowstep to get out of the range is that it? Make up your mind man. But let’s say its HS. HS has 450 range and costs 3 initiative. Animation it self takes 3/4 of a second. You need to cast at least 4 times of these to be able to get out of the range of a Kill shot. 4 × 3 = 12 initiative which is the max without traiting for it. 4 × 3/4 = 3 secs which is 1.75 sec more than the casting time of Kill-shot. Please go back to your school and finish your education. Oh and one more thing, I disabled “auto-targeting” in the first 30 minutes of this game. But keep believing!

“Shadowstep is 1500 range that you cast in almost an instant. L2P.” – You might wanna create a thief and hop on sPvP to check what kind of abilities we have. You seem like a person who never even tried to play as a thief.

Shortbow shadowstep = 900 range
Shadowstep utility = 1200 range
Kill-shot = 1500 range

“Yes, however L2P is not one of them. That’s a player issue.” – L2UYB. If you don’t know what it is, It’s Learn to use your brain. Genius, right?

swinsk.6410:

Why are you even trying to play a thief with 170-500ms latency? You should be on warrior or minion master necro…

Except nowhere it dictates that people with high ping should not play thief, although I agree with you. It is terrible to play with this ping for all classes, worse on a thief. Forget dodges and other stuff, Heartseeker doesn’t even hit my target even though the target is pretty close to me on my own screen, they usually are out of the range of Heartseeker. If I had a chance to switch classes without needing to open up all WPs again, I would.

SoulSin.5682:

Tempest.4507:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Tempest.4507:

ppl can still see you because of floating damage numbers

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-

New thief. Play first complain later.

They don’t see damage numbers when stealthed. Any implication that they see you is them guessing (successfully) where you are.

People should learn to read the whole thread before writing anything. You make more fun of yourself while trying to make fun of someone else.

We’ve read the whole thread a few times already. It’s just you that refuses to see the truth.

If dodging, blinding, interrupting, staying out of range or behind the warrior aren’t real solutions to you, you might change your full berserk to valkyries and never get one shoot again.

Worth mentioning that the standard Valk thief walks around with 15~18k HP and will NEVER get one shooted by a sniper warrior. (which is a build only used by bad warriors, since its a gimmick/fun build)

What…I don’t even…Have you even read what the guy wrote?

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Tempest.4507:

ppl can still see you because of floating damage numbers

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-

New thief. Play first complain later.

They don’t see damage numbers when stealthed. Any implication that they see you is them guessing (successfully) where you are.

People should learn to read the whole thread before writing anything. You make more fun of yourself while trying to make fun of someone else.

lighter.2708:

in the end, emi just basically said “l2p” in a fashionable way.

Not really. No. But if you wanna beliave that then i could not care any less.

Emi.4152:

Tempest.4507:

Gotta hand it to you, you play good. But in some of those fights your opponents don’t really look like they know how to counter a thief. That guardian in the first fight seemed like his other hand is full :P

I am very interested in your build and gear, sigils and runes. As even though I go more damage based with my build I do lot less with my backstabs and well…overall burst. Highest backstab I did to a non-upscaled player was 7k and thats with 17 or so might and a build that has no survibility (0 in SA and Acro)

thanks! I think the guard was trying really hard to keep his guildies alive (all 3 were from 1 guild :P) and by the time it turned into 1 v 1, his cooldowns were all gone! It’s true that quite a few of those in the video do not know how to counter a thief properly but… most players do not know exactly how… especially in wvw! (basically the same thing in both NA and CN). Skill levels are abit higher in NA but not to the point where it’s significantly harder.

Something i’ve always found very interesting about the d/d set is that while i might lose to particular players or builds 1 v 1 but when it turns into 1 v 3~4 it suddenly becomes much easier! cnd is much too easy to dodge 1 v 1 but when there are multiple targets~ it becomes impossible :P

Well I do not full know hows skill level in NA and CN as my only source of knowledge is through these videos, but in EU Tier 1, it gets real tough. It’s like everyone can see the future, the moment you throw shadow refuge for example, you get insta-feared, knockdowned, or get too much AoE pressure. Can’t really tell how many times I get downed inside Shadow Refuge, to the point where I start to think changing it with something else. You would expect the stealthy class to shape the fight but thats not the case here. Most people save their skills for the time you are revealed.

PsyKoOz.8701:

Tempest.4507:

PsyKoOz.8701:

No Blinds
No Invis
No Interupts
No Tps
No Dodges

Kill Shot too fast !
Thief so hard, war so big and strong !

Attachement:
http://i.memeful.com/media/post/9d6Kxjw_700wa_0.gif

A quick research on your forums posts shows your degree on trolling.

Maybe said like a troll but it doesn’t mean I’m wrong

Have you tried to fight a condi ranger that has trapper runes? Now that is invis.
Interrupts only with /P builds.
Most classes have Tps
We got dodges aye(Only viable wih Acro build coupled with Trickery though), still I would rather have higher health pool and toughness to survive anyday, as it doesn’t even require you to press a button with lightning reflexes to survive.

“Kill Shot too fast !
Thief so hard, war so big and strong !” – Can’t argue with that!

Emi.4152:

Tempest.4507:

Full berserker gear, 6 on SA and other 8 keep changing as I like to experiment with diffrent builds.

hmmmm, you might consider changing from full berserk to a valk/cav/berserk mix. I started off with full berserk too but it didn’t work as well as i wanted it to, added valk & cav and started to win alot more! as i got better i found that i could start putting berserk pieces back one at a time hehe.

poof!

And to those people that keep thrashing on this thread and pretty much are only able to thrash and nothing else, you are a welcome sight. Only thing you are proving is how the truth hurts and you simply can’t stop yourself intervening.

mmmm, I would agree that thieves (especially d/d thieves) has weaknesses. I wish we had a little bit more burst (you can never have enough!). I wish power rangers would stop engaging me at the perfect distance (1000~1100) when i can’t get far enough away fast enough and too far for me to close in time to do any good… That med guardians stop being the giant scary monsters that chases me (gahhh! stop chasingggg meeeeee).

But overall, I think we’re still doing quite fine no? Then again… i really love the d/d playstyle… even if they nerf us to the point that we can only tickle… i’ll still be out there tickling people to deathhhh! so maybe i’m biased :P

Just abit of gameplay from me. The first fight has a rifle/gs warrior (among other things… :P) poor thing is just crippled from blind > _ < they attack so slowly! It’s from the chinese server where i have better ping but pretty much the same thing I do in NA.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8XH5BmQ4qE

#selfpromotion yay!

Gotta hand it to you, you play good. But in some of those fights your opponents don’t really look like they know how to counter a thief. That guardian in the first fight seemed like his other hand is full :P

I am very interested in your build and gear, sigils and runes. As even though I go more damage based with my build I do lot less with my backstabs and well…overall burst. Highest backstab I did to a non-upscaled player was 7k and thats with 17 or so might and a build that has no survibility (0 in SA and Acro)

“Thief can backstab much more often, at less damage, but with easier access as long as they stay on target as you chose to be melee. Fighting X classes on my thief is easier than on my warrior, but then again you have to factor traits gear weapons etc. " – Gaining stealth through CnD is much harder than warrior gaining adrenaline. I could use Stealth utility but warrior also has instant adrenaline fill signet.

“You mentioned immunity to damage but that’s only for 4 seconds every 60 seconds if he chose to pick up endure pain utlity, vs thiefs faster access to stealth (and regen + condi removal when stealthed + shadow refuge).” – Thieves regen in stealth vs warriors all time regen? A condi removal where you need at least half of your initiative and to be able to hit your enemy in melee range while trying to stay away from their random AoE that will take you down with pretty much 1 shot? Shadow Refuge which has a sign on it that says “Please AoE and Pull/Push/Knockback the kitten out of this place”?)

“Even though a GS warrior has some mobility and potential to escape fights, it is no way a 100% escape potential as the thief has, that is gold on my thief as I know I can get away 100% of the time or reset the fight, your niche. " – You really mean to tell me that you have always been able to escape on your thief? What do you do exactly? I am curious.

“A warrior cant do that. But again your focus was on the zerker rifle war and if you fought him 1v1 you would’ve bested him, hands down, if you used your dodges/stealth, as rifle is an ineffective 1v1 build and doesn’t support the other weapon set. It’s like a troll build, like the thief’s dual pistol set where you can burst a target quickly down – but the set has no other useful mechanics and especially once all that initiative is gone.” – Sure It can be a lot easier when you are dueling with the warrior. But in a small scale fight that said warrior can randomly take a target, use his shot, then continue fighting the other person. Which was the scenerio that happened to me as I was focusing on a very low health ranger and all of a sudden I am down even though I had full health. Please continue to tell me how I should have dodge with my spider senses and go in stealth while doing a 360 noscope long range blind or interrupt.

“The fact that you took the full 15k dmg raises an eyebrow and you should ask yourself what were you doing that exact moment, were you not paying attention to his predictable channel ability, the problably only ability you even would’ve had to dodge in such a fight?” – Already covered in the above part, but aye…It does raise an eyebrow.

PsyKoOz.8701:

No Blinds
No Invis
No Interupts
No Tps
No Dodges

Kill Shot too fast !
Thief so hard, war so big and strong !

Attachement:
http://i.memeful.com/media/post/9d6Kxjw_700wa_0.gif

A quick research on your forums posts shows your degree on trolling.

MarauderShields.6830:

glass cannon complains about being beaten by another glass cannon (arguably the worst, most easily shut down and most gimmicky).

rule 1 of the thieves guild: if you go burst, prepare to get bursted.

/thread

Aaand another one! It’s raining today!

“if you go burst, prepare to get bursted.” – Should I go bunker then? Is that what most thieves do now? I can only imagine what a 2k backstabber thief would be able to kill.

Emi.4152:

Hey Tempest

fellowww d/d thief here! If you don’t mind me asking, what is your build and equipment? I won’t say LTP because i also play with 200+ ping and sometimes get caught off guard by a random glass warrior kneeling at 1200 range :P

however, if you do see a warrior with a giant gun kneeling… as long as you have the blind on stealth trait that almost all x66xx d/d thieves have… you can just cnd -> steal at the warrior and be completely safe from the kill shot. I find that i can get cnd -> steal -> bs -> full auto chain into them before they finish casting that silly skill. Blind on stealth will keep you safe so you won’t even have to dodge.

I see a few people here saying that you should try to open range with them and kite… for me that has never worked very well, opening range on someone that has 1200 range when you only have 900 max. What i personally find really effective with warriors is to keep at 0 range. If it’s a rifle/GS warrior, keep blind on them consistently, walk through them when they do the channel pew pew skill (it will make the channel fail), dodge only the stuns and immobs that you are unable to blind, when they take out the GS and do the swing swing swing skill, walk INSIDE their character and most of the chain will miss you. If you land your auto poison on them consistently, it would only be a matter of time before they run or die :P

Happy hunting!

Full berserker gear, 6 on SA and other 8 keep changing as I like to experiment with diffrent builds.

I always have the blind on stealth(really helpful since almost all the AoE spells range is really wide and hits no matter if the target is behind you or not as mentioned before by someone else, channeled skills still hit you even if you go stealth #kittenlogic) but that blind applies only if you are on melee range. Steal as I presume most of you know, has 900 range AND 35 sec cooldown. Kill-shot, 7.5-10 with 1500 range that can be used many times in a fight due to traits that increase your adrenaline gain and a signet that refills all your adrenaline.

Keeping at 0 range never worked either because a greatsword wielding, minimum 20k health heavy armor wearer that also has regen warrior easily crushes the tiny little thief with 13k. (although it might make you able to dodge the kill-shot) D/D thief can’t really blind whenever he/she wants because our only blinding ability (stealthing) takes 6 initiative and once you use 1 (or even worse miss 1) you won’t be able to either hide or deal any good amount of damage. Why? Let’s take a look at D/D thieves weapon skills. Our main damage source other than backstab, our auto-attack. Heartseeker, only viable when our opponent has less than %50. Death Blossom, does anyone even really use this skill? Dancing dagger, laughable damage coupled with 3 sec cripple. And our only means of survival, Cloak and Dagger.

And to those people that keep thrashing on this thread and pretty much are only able to thrash and nothing else, you are a welcome sight. Only thing you are proving is how the truth hurts and you simply can’t stop yourself intervening.

Turk.5460:

Tempest, I don’t think a single person in this thread has supported you or the major points you have stated, other than lightly agreeing with some of the Thief weaknesses.

Instead of taking the most helpful responses and constructive criticism and reflecting upon them, you have been immediately denying their validity, quoting every counter points responding each time with what seems to be longer versions of “NO YOU ARE WRONG”

An overwhelming majority of this thread and subforum disagree with you. Have you once considered that maybe they have valid points themselves?
Stop being blinded by your pride.

Look, another one!

All that has been said to me is;

1- I play thief wrong.
2- I should get out of the range of my enemy all the time while trying to stay in the melee range.
3- Thieves require no skill to play what so ever. We are in fact, able to dominate by just mashing on keyboard randomly.
4- I should be a comedian.

I guess that sums up your “most helpful responses and constructive criticism”.

In every MMO, stealthy backstabby classes always received the most hate, wheter they are overpowered or underpowered, it does not matter. People fear and hate what they can’t see. Even if they are able to one-shot that invisible boogeyman, they still fear it. Much like insects and spiders. You fear them, you hate them, those tiny, hard to see animals, although you know you can just smash them in an instant.

Bran.7425:

Not trying to derail or anything, but from what I am gathering here is you are not upset because you were the one on the receiving end of a one shot, but because the profession you have chosen (based on the perception of being able to gank) is not working to the standard you feel it should. This this correct?

Gonna try to summarize my points, although it should be noted, reading whole post will still be more explanatory, since it is backed by facts and examples.

1- No class should be able to 1-shot any class. I have yet to kill one class ( provided they are not upscaled) with single backstab combo. If we can however with some sort of cheesy build, then it should also be addressed.

2-Warrior manages more than a thief, while requiring less focus and skill and allowing for mistakes. You miss a dodge as a thief, or not plan ahead and save up your endurance, your shadowstep utility or whatever, and you are dead. Doesn’t matter you have full health or not. You are always on the edge.

Reavan.8753:

I started as a mesmer at launch, made a thief for Spvp then too, quit, came back a few months ago and now lvld that thief and main it as I hate mesmer now.

Warrior much.
Hahha.

As some one said instead of arguing with anybody that disagrees with you or tries to point you in the right direction I believe you should accept maybe the fact you are very very wrong.

If you were complaining about Hambow in Spvp I’d some what agree as they are strong but you are whining about zerker warriors in wvw and that is laughable.

^
Example of someone who either did not read the whole post or can’t come up with a proper arguement and just claims that I am bad and just bad at pressing buttons. Guys you are making this far too easy for me.

lighter.2708:

yes i main warrior, but i wasnt one of them arguing with you, so me being a warrior does not disapprove my point in any way.

you are just being illogical and being a little baby now, grow up..

It proves my point that warriors come to thief forums to argue. Of course not every warrior is going to be writing posts only in warrior section. You were the illogical one and I just followed your example. Simple as that. Not a single person managed to counter my arguments and facts I wrote down except with “L2P”.

lighter.2708:

i disagree, most of them refer warrior as “they”, which implies they are not part of warrior, and their forum histories show that they do not play warrior.

maybe it’s time to admit the l2p issue and move on.

good day sir.

Your forum history on the other hand, determined that was lie. Good day to you aswell warrior.