Guild Wars 2

As always: lame, dodgy answers with no real info content. Though I may actually be glad that they haven’t given out anything concrete. Because when they do, dung blows up and GW1 lore and rationality are further desecrated.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

IMO, GW1 has a far stronger story than GW2 does, especially the Living World, and can even be fun to play still, however this may turn you to have a view much like the veterans which has, until E5, been a “GW2 is ignoring and even greatly changing GW1’s great lore for worse lore!”

@ the bolded: That thought defines my view of GW2 to this very day. Playing E5 did not help dissuading it at all, unfortunately. On the contrary; after finishing Hidden Arcana I’m in greater agreement with that notion than ever.

Thanks for the compéring, Konig. ;P

Yeah, back then I theorized half-jokingly that Rytlock would traverse the Mists from his entry point to say, the Hall of Heroes/the Rift — or anywhere in particular where the gods could be found. At this sacred place he would encounter one or more of the Six. Given that he’s a charr to the heart, he would attack them on sight (hehe) but would be incapacitated in a moment’s notice due to a combination of going blind from the burning divinity and being brutally overpowered by them. And here I made a logical jump in the brainstorm and toyed with the absurd possibility (drawing parallels from Saul’s story) that he would be nurtured back to health by the Six or their servants (e.g. the Forgotten) and become enlightened in their ways. Thus, Rytlock Brimstone would return to Tyria as the first charr to convert to the faith of the Six Gods.

And here we are, in the company of a seemingly more enlightened Rytlock wearing a blindfold and speaking as if he was on the most sacred of missions any mortal could have…

Addendum: What would be even grander is if Rurik’s soul — being drawn to his sword — would be Rytlock’s guide pre and post conversion; i.e. on the way in as well as out of the Mists.

Tl;dr: All hail Hierophant Rytlock Brimstone the Holy Convert!

It should not be overlooked that Garfaz Steelfur and his warband might have entered the Realm of Torment alive, say, through the portal in Hrangmer where the titans had first emerged.

On the other hand it is true that Scorch Emberspire was a shaman who more than likely had contact with the titans and died in the Cataclysm — the former Abaddon’s agents, the latter Abaddon’s machination. (Vialee was also condemned to the Realm of Torment yet he was a mere Orrian citizen/soldier who possibly never encountered knowledge or power of the fallen god beforehand.)

Since Konig has a fondness of presenting only his views on a particular topic, I’ll leave these links here:

First on whether the Cataclysm affected Zhaitan and vice versa:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/Theory-on-the-Sylvari-and-Mordremoth/first#post4279704
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/Theory-on-the-Sylvari-and-Mordremoth/first#post4281744

Then some points to be made on why risen still have flesh (technically, there should only be skeletal risen — or if Big Z’ can’t reanimate those: no risen at all).

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/11-327-year-old-skeleton/first#post4300399
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/11-327-year-old-skeleton/first#post4301520

And I wholeheartedly agree with Squee’s assessment. This “And why should they? They are gods, and humans are mortals.” is as much a terrible argument as a horrifying attitude from a group responsible for the welfare of an entire species — who incidentally made quite the attempts to sustain and protect their chosen.

Personally, I believe the gods knew about the dragons, but not when they would wake or where they were hibernating. Back before the Exodus they might have had a the schemes along which they would’ve guided the world to prepare it for the coming, final war with the Elder Dragons, but then the violent conflict with Abaddon made them realize something that forced them to pull out of the Tyrian sphere. Simultaneously, they might have been confident in the notion that it would still be millennia (more than 1.1-1.3) before the beasts would rise again, giving them ample amount of time to settle the matters that were keeping them busy in the Mists while still aiding humanity remotely. At the same time, Tyria and its dominant species would’ve also had the means to develop and advance on their own, reaching the point where they could’ve combated the dragons effectively without divine help — if worse came to the worst.

And that is where they made a mistake. The dragons could not consume all the magic of the world last time and might have been left pretty hungry when they fell to sleep. However, this also meant they would rise sooner, before dawn, to “check what was in the magically-refilling fridge.” (Probably the big release of the Bloodstone’s contents before the Exodus and the constant leaking of the separated pieces after the volcano had spewed them out did facilitate their awakening.)

At the same time, instead of the world coming together in unity and progress, the species were driven apart and ravaged by an enraged and maddened Abaddon; the Jade Wind, the Searing, the Cataclysm, the titan invasion, Shiro’s return, Nightfall, and who knows how many other machinations. It left Tyria ill-prepared to face the Elder Dragons when they woke, while the gods miscalculated and whatever is keeping them occupied for so long has only gotten more serious in the last couple of centuries as they pulled even farther away from Tyria.

Addendum: as to why they built their city atop an Elder Dragon and why they had the human kingdom that they intended to lead all the others settle down there, I reckon the answer is simple: Arah and Orr were the last stand for the elder races. It was somehow protected from dragon attacks. When Glint made all the survivors disappear — regardless of how she did — Zhaitan insidiously moved in and fell asleep there. By the time they returned, they had no idea that an Elder Dragon was onto them and they got away in the nick of time. The gods and humans arrived, and the latter decided that humanity’s bastion should be built atop the safe haven that resisted the Elder Dragons’ influence throughout an entire cycle. Oh the irony…

If you don’t want to put yourself up for a series of bitter disappointments, I suggest you consider GW2 taking place in a crazy alternate dimension. That is, if I were you, I wouldn’t be looking for the roots of GW2 lore within GW1, because other than making you sad through pleasant nostalgia, you will find very little connection between the two — aside from the very big, probably inevitable events that shaped the history of Tyria in both games.

However, if you’d really like to read up on GW1 lore, the wikis are your friends.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Lore
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lore

Shiny says hello to y’all.

However, he’s a Saltspray Dragon baby which are all but native to Cantha. It still remains a mystery what the Bone Dragons were in life and why they joined Khilbron’s Orrian undead forces in the first place — they might’ve come from Orr, or they were the proto-Tequatl-class dragon minions during the last rise and were woken from their tombs in the Cataclysm.

Thought I’d also bump/update the races I’d be lobbying for. So far, the first three are still the same as before, although the positions changed a bit:

1. Largos: Most awesome race ever. Pity we know so little about them.
2. Elonian Undead: Former living humans only. Storywise it could be explained simply that the PC was part of the Elonan resistance but got killed in his/her first mission, only to be reanimated into the servitude of King Joko. The first chapter would be about serving the undead monarch as his loyal lieutenant, the second (after a horrid, revolting conclusion at the ending of the first that shakes the anti-hero’s beliefs in/bond to his/her master) about finding a way to break free of his control. Third could be about (re)establishing connections with the Order of Whispers and the Elonian resistance.
3. Tengu: C’mon, if there is to be an expansion — which is a very big if, unfortunately — these guys will be in, that’s a given. At the same time, I forced them back to the 3rd place because I feel they are a little too overrated and were colossal jerks — again, thanks to the incompetence of the LS writers — during the siege of Lion’s Arch.

And the fourth race I’d be really psyched about are redeemed Margonites. Very basic brainstorm story done on-the-spot incoming:

After pledging allegiance to the goddess Kormir, the Apostate and the Lost joined forces to gather all Margonites who were showing willingness to give up their corrupt faith in a disgraced and now dead god. Without a purpose anymore, many of those who lamented their demonic state flocked to the new leaders of their kitten ed race, reverting to the faith of the Six once more. As they’ve proven they were earnest about their change of heart and had the capacity to fully redeem themselves, all gods agreed to give the Margonites a second chance. With a sacred ritual combining the blessings of Dwayna and Melandru, the demonic nature of all those who underwent the rite was purged. They regained their physical bodies; fertile but mortal again. However, Abaddon’s mark could not be undone; six eyes on an elongated forehead (as well as some extra stuff for the sake of character creation awesomeness: like the rotten wings of the Warlock, but now more Seraph-looking (3 pairs), or the Ascendant’s angel-wings, etc.) perceive the coasts of southeastern Elona (figured they wouldn’t be placed right where Joko’s made his new capitol); their old-new homeland in a familiar environment — where they’d first arrived as human seafarers eons ago. The Margonites are overwhelmed how much the world changed, but if there’s something they excel at, it is rapid adaptation.

And yup, I also support Konig’s idea of Wardens for Cantha. I’d take them over the tengu any time.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Cadeyrn’s the only semi-important mesmer I can think of that you missed.

Minor nitpicking, but Cadeyrn had been a warrior until they screwed up his entire story in Twilight Arbor story.

Of course, that was established in the Dream and Nightmare short story, and back then we weren’t inoculated in the new dogma that all outside-of-“GW2” lore is malleable and thus mostly incorrect.

Erukk.1408:

Random Asuran researcher #533 accidently creates a black hole, which then devours all of Tyria, the Elders Dragons, the entirety of the Mists, and all the possible things it contained in it. Thus ending GW2 the game as well all the entire GW universe.

…No refunds!

At this point, it would pretty much save the Guild Wars universe from further embarrassment and suffering.

Leah Hoyer.1983:

• The old writers are still here and we’re all a team.

The more things change, the more they stay the same…

I’m not expecting any significant, lore and story redeeming improvements while those responsible for the current, more than underwhelming state of the Guild Wars universe are still in power.

Anyways, the above paragraph was in no way directed at you, Leah. I also offer you my greetings, and hope you will still have an enjoyable and constructive time at the company.

Rym.1469:

McCoy’s Angles.

Nuff said.

I laughed my backside off… X’D

Nowhere near as good as Rym’s or others, but here’s my idea:

Doom’s Dummies

(And in the end it would turn out they are Dhuum’s unwitting sleeper agents who will inadvertently lead Tyria to its bitter end, allowing him to gain untold powers through the deaths of every mortal.)

MASSIVE applause to Drax as well as a batch of freshly-baked, virtual-flavored internet cookies (I will try to make real ones sometime in the future.)

…there are people I know who, if anything, would put things even more strongly than I did above.

Ahai! Maybe I could put them more strongly, but nowhere near as eloquently and neatly as you did.

Angel McCoy.1832:

Tell me this. Why, in your opinion, are folks so enamored with the Mursaat?

Because…

…cue in Eekzie’s, Mada’s, and Drax’s posts perfectly answering this silly question.

Also, to put it in a nutshell: they are infinitely better antagonists with a deep, mysterious story and rich background than all your Living Story (as well as some from the vanilla game) one-dimensional, cartoon villains combined.

@narwhals: It does mention that the towers are “heaven-reaching” and the architecture itself is astounding in the eyes of a human. If I look at the jade architecture, I think of dark, foreboding, alien, but not astounding.

If you look at the mursaat — their physique, their clothes, their armor, their grace — you see superiority, radiance, and gold. Does the jade architecture gives this back? Nope. Henceforth, it is obvious the structures Saul had seen are very different from the one the players had seen in Guild Wars 1.

Also, do not try to dismiss the connection that the White Mantle also took up golden and white as their colors, which was actually started by Saul D’Alessio, who was given his robes as a gift by the Unseen Ones:

“Saul D’Alessio returned to Kryta a changed man. His rags had been replaced with a sleeveless, pure-white robe embroidered with golden thread.”

— http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Saul_D%27Alessio

You can have your images of mursaat military architecture. I have all the proof I need to support my claims.

And after years of patient waiting following the presentation my “the mursaat had a strong presence in the Maguuma” theory in 2009, I can finally return and cross fingers that it will be proven correct.

As for their architecture, narwhalsbend:

“On the fourth day, delirious with hunger, Saul emerged from the trees to see what he thought was a hallucination—a city of massive towers reaching into the heavens. The architecture was astounding, and the creatures who lived here were unlike any he had ever seen.”

— http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Saul_D%27Alessio

I’ve been speculating for years that the “bloodstone architecture” found in the Ring of Fire is “grown” out of the bloodstones themselves, and they serve as resources for military purposes — weapons, the jade armor constructs, walls, mursaat towers powered by souls, mursaat batteries, etc.

While their ancient, “civilian” architecture is the one of golden, empyrean towers and the like. Much like those structures we saw in the vision.

Which is still unconfirmed and more like the myth of frightened sailors than reality.

I’d say they are more like a totally amoral STG to the Salarian Union.

The description of the atmosphere is that of post-rise Orr. And true, active dragon corruption does weird things to the sky/air. However, unless the Cataclysm did affect Zhaitan or harnessed his energies in great amounts, I doubt that the sun above the waters of Orr were blotted out 24/7 for 150 years before it could become justified thanks to Zhaitan vomiting his corruption into the air. Given that dragons don’t seem to corrupt during their sleep, and Big Z was under earth and sea at that time, I doubt his powers could twist the waters and the sky to such extent. A ghost story born of the magical, mysterious nature of Orr and the tragedy that destroyed it.

(Not a definitive proof, but I think it’s worth taken into consideration: in the release trailer, Orrian waters are sunny with even some ruins visible on the shattered archipelagos. Seagulls are squealing and stuff, and a ship’s sailing right above the thickest of wreckage and ruins — probably Arah, given that the camera descends upon Zhaitan.)

That restoring flesh to centuries-old-dead thing was always a huge WTF factor of Z’s corruption to me…

It could be just a sailor’s ghost story that spread like wildfire among the superstitious folk, given the terrible fate that befell Orr. I find it rather hard to believe that area was shadowed by storm clouds for 150 years and the waters were colder than the arctic seas. Yes, storms may have developed more frequently over the broken archipelagos due to either the Cataclysm’s lingering energy in the atmosphere or some damaged magical contraption(s) dealing with air magic (Orrian wizards love using lightning strikes and co.), but I’d take those sailor tales with a pound of salt.

As for the preservation of the corpses: I agree with the Justiciar’s to-the-point insight. Especially when we take into consideration that the vast majority of the Lich Lord’s armies were skeletal undead, and their invasion into Kryta happened a mere year (or less) after the sinking of Orr.

They’re called the “biconics” because they’re the perfect pixel manifestations of B movie stars.

Where on Tyria do you guys get that the keystone is about the size of a human fist? IIRC, it was explicitly said the original Bloodstone was divided into five equal-sized chunks.

Edit: Ah, I see it was only said that only the four stones representing the four schools of magic were of the same size. Still, I found no mention of the keystone’s actual size.

Those two are also dead as far as I know.

Lostwingman.5034:

CureForLiving.5360:

You mean what the humans did to Charr lands :P

You mean the comeuppance the Charr got for displacing the Grawl and Ogres that were already there? annoying winky face

As well as the dwarves and the forgotten. joins Lostwingman in flashing annoying winky face

After the last two years you should’ve learned not to trust these “Dungeon Masters.”

As it has been said multiple times; the Avatar is just an ethereal projection, a “hologram.” The Pale Tree cannot “grow a new sprout.” Since she fell into coma from the injuries she’d sustained, the Avatar should’ve dispersed. When she — the Tree — is healed back up to the strength where she can project her sylvari image that she uses to communicate with non-sylvari again, she will do so under a moment’s notice.

Hence why the whole aftermath inside the chamber made no freaking sense. Funny how the writer has to hide behind player speculation and deem it “correct” instead of admitting that she made a mistake.

RedStar.4218:

Electro.4173:

Thalador.4218:

They managed to screw up with the Avatar, too. In an interview it was said the Avatar’s just an ethereal projection through which non-sylvari can communicate with her… now she’s suddenly sap and bark that breathes. Duh…

I think she’s still just a manifestation. Her gasping and getting hurt represents the tree itself getting damaged. I believe at some point its mentioned that the Mordrem attacked the trees roots from below, probably doing severe damage, not to mention the dragon flying around through the canopy. And while we may not generally associate trees with getting injured, considering its a magical tree with a “sentient” avatar I think damage to the tree causing it to act injured is reasonable.

I think Thalador is talking about the Menders tending to the Avatar. If the avatar is fake, there’s nothing to tend for.
And if you continue with the fake avatar : if the Tree was that badly hurt it wouldn’t even have the strength to summon an avatar.

Exactly what RedStar said.

They managed to screw up with the Avatar, too. In an interview it was said the Avatar’s just an ethereal projection through which non-sylvari can communicate with her… now she’s suddenly sap and bark that breathes. Duh…

As for the feels… very little. I felt a lot more for poor Belinda — sans her terribly off-putting voice that’s completely out of sync with the character. If I could bring her back by sacrificing the Pale Tree, I would certainly do so. Same for Morning, actually.

But then again, I’m a human supremacist.

darkace.8925:

Mordremoth isn’t even a big enough threat to stir the tengu into action, so why should the rest of the world care?

By now they effed the tengu story thread up so much I wouldn’t be surprised if the whole Dominion was a themepark for Destroyers burning down Mordrem vines holdin’ and chokin’ the rotting carcasses of the zombified risen tengu population left unattended after Zhaitan’s demise.

Which would actually fit ANet’s world-destro… sorry, world-invigorating schemes.

I’m with Shiren on this. Lachlan seems very shifty, especially after his stellar “Oh no!” performance; the lack of emotion — which could’ve been an excess of sarcasm, actually — might be a hint at his true colors.

Also, as always, I found a way to fit the last known representative of my favorite traitorous, xenophobe, self-supremacist, genocidal species into the story:

Maybe Lazarus learned of the summit from his WM infiltrators, went out to the edge of the jungle, and yelled the location and time loud enough so some Mordrem could hear it. :P

Music and art design (concept art, cinematics) are both A++.

They are the only parts of this season (and the LS in general) that manage to pull the overall rating out of the muck — to where the abysmal F- story dragged it down — raising it to a weak C at best, imo.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

I will use spoilers, so be warned!

Season 2 so far had some great moments but it still doesn’t catch me. I’ll talk about the different aspects why I think the Living Story could be made better.

Story:

I really liked the overall story, all the cliffhangers made me interested in seing more.
But I didn’t liked the specific implementation of it. I will give two examples:

Belinda. Her whole story arc felt like this: “This is a character the hero is caring about. Now the character is dead. Now the hero is angry.”
That was the whole purpose of her person so far and it is a very sloppy design element to create tension. “You want to make a thrilling story? Kill people! That will do the trick.”

The next example is the meeting with the leaders of the different races in the Grove. Each leader presented his thoughts and we defended our position. And in the end (who would have thought it?) all agreed with us. Wow. That was a waste of time.

There were a lot of elements that are either not fitting in the context or felt like taken out of a “How to build a proper story” building kit.
And I also don’t like the paperchase mentality. The first two Personal Story parts (lvl 1-10, 11-20) had a clear goal where we were heading towards. Take the Human personal story as example: The first ten level we’re solely dealing with bandids and how to stop them. That got lost after that. The only thing we knew from that on was that, sometime, we would fight Zhaitan. There was no golden thread. We meet the orders, become friends with our superior, he/she dies. We meet another persons, they die. All the time. We do something, we settle into the story, everything gets changed.
The common theme is missing.

The patch cycle:

I’m a very impatient person and the reason why I still like the Personal Story way more than the Living Story, beside being way worse narrationwise, is that I can choose when I want to progress. If I want to get the story done in one day, I can do so.
I know that wont be possible for the Living Story but it could be made far better. It should feel like a journey, not like timewarping every two weaks.
An example how this could be achieved would be to split the story parts in smaller part, that unlock on a daily basis, or to fill in meaningful timegates, like long eventchains that have to be completed first before one could progress.

The own character:

I think the story hasn’t improved here. It still feels like my character is either deaf-dumb or stupid. The conversations, not to mention the fact that they’ve all being mute, felt unrealistic.
The reason is that we don’t get any choice in what to say, we don’t have any personality, not even a gender difference in what we are saying.
There should be different choices in what to say, different answers based on our gender, our race and our personality (still remember Charisma, Dignity, Ferocity?).
A huge Norn saying the same things as a Sylvari or an Asura doesn’t make sense.

I’m with you, especially on the third point. However, don’t expect any improvement on that front. They’ve already decided that this is not your story — the exact opposite of what they said pre-release.

“For you, the game should be about the PC at the expense of the open world content and ambience. For me, and for Guild Wars 2, it’s about the world as a whole since it’s a cooperative, shared environment. Neither approach is wrong, but we decided to put more of our resources into bringing the world to life. I don’t regret that at all.”

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/lwd/Enough-of-your-GMPC-please/first#post4172047

Funny thing is that they keep killing — both literally and figuratively — the world they so much want to bring to life.

Palador.2170:

“Phlunt, if you’re backing out of the deal, then fine. Taimi, turn off your device. We’ll order the Pact to start destroying waypoints and gates immediately.”

“What’s that? You say I can’t do that? I can and I am. I am the Commander of the Pact, and I AM IN CHARGE HERE! If you are unwilling to do your part and help us against the dragons, then we’ll do it without you. The cost to you and yours will not be considered. Leave, or I and my team will execute you and leave your corpses for the vultures. Once the waypoint network is destroyed, the dragon will attack the only place such energy remains. The rest of us will have time to gather our forces while it devours Rata Sum.”

“What’s that? You were, perhaps, a bit hasty? Yes, I thought so too.”

This… this was beautiful. I would love to see Rata Sum getting choked to oblivion by Mordremoth’s vines…

It also reminded me of a renegade Shepard telling the quarian fleet that they can get in line and work with the geth or go kitten themselves, because s/he won’t allow them to slaughter the geth who’s still being upgraded by Legion.

“Two years ago I saved you from Zhaitan in Orr. Just recently I took out Scarlet. But I’m through saving you. If you don’t get your old kitten to the Grove, Phlunt, I will stand and watch while the Mordrem lay you to waste. It’s your call… Keelah’selai.”

Konig Des Todes.2086:

I’m not okay with brining the world leaders together instead of ambassadors. I’m not okay with the most famous guild that was formed to slay Elder Dragons not bring present for a meeting about slaying an Elder Dragon. I’m not okay with only Vigil having a Pact/Order representative at the summit. I’m not okay that all the world leaders gave in so simply. I’m not okay with Knut claiming to be over 150 years old and knowing such youth when aged norn live to only roughly 120 while still being physically active. I’m not okay with someone who agreed to show with no strings attatched earlier suddenly spouts she cannot help when Kryta is arguably in the best situation it’s been in for roughly 2 generations.

But I guess I don’t have a choice.

This. 1337 (or even) more times.

Dirame.8521:

Glint’s Baby is the chosen one.

Pretty much this.

Also, the golden city with the pillars and towers far out in the Maguuma?

Abandoned. Mursaat. City. #YouHeardItHereFirst

I’m praying that the very theory with which I first appeared on Guild Wars Guru in 2009 will finally be proven correct… .

RedStar.4218:

I really preferred back when the EDS were massive balls of destruction that didn’t give a kitten about anything aside from eating.

^This

So, so, so, so, so, so much this. (I’ll give you a +1 every time I visit this thread.)

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Thalador.4218:

But it doesn’t mean Zhaitan couldn’t have affected the Cataclysm, Orr, or the aftermath in any way, shape, or form.

Also, it still had to have at least some effect on him. Even if his tomb was left untouched and even the tremors couldn’t reach him, he still found himself under both sea and land instead of just land when he woke.

Actually, not really. If Zhaitan affected the Cataclysm in his sleep, then the Cataclysm affected him in some way to trigger Zhaitan affecting it. But the way that Jeff Grubb once stated the statement that the Cataclysm didn’t affect Zhaitan heavily implied that despite common belief, the Cataclysm was not the source for the Orrian undead of GW1 (“mere wrinkles in the crust” being his way of describing the Cataclysm).

Do you really want to believe that a catastrophic event that sinks an entire peninsula/island affected Zhaitan in no way at all? First of all, he sank with said place to the bottom of the sea… that’s quite the effect. If I was asleep and suddenly started moving downwards with alarming speed, I’d sure as hell react in some way, shape, or form, even if I’m a deep sleeper and would still not fully wake with a start. Let’s say I’d change pose and start snoring. Now, my snore wouldn’t corrupt half the world (it may cause some discomfort to the others around — especially if I ate something that was flavored heavily with onion before going to sleep), but Zhaitan, even if he’s not actively using his corruption, is ought to release/exude/exhale consumed magic in higher concentrations.

And that is just one possibility. What if he stirred into half-wakefulness like when we can’t decide what is dream and what is reality, and the reality of sinking into the darkness of the sea (where one of his kin might lie in wait) became part of his dream, eliciting a shocked reaction in primal fear, thus releasing semi-actively a breath of corrupted magic. Or as I said in another thread; a tube of infusion was shoved into his throat:

On the other hand, Zhaitan could rise 100 years earlier. Why? I hate myself for this, but… ley lines! The Cataclysm affected him in no way, but we see Vizier Khilbron and the Lost Scrolls coated in tealish blue light as he spells the forbidden words. At the same time, Vialee (a former Orrian trapped in the Realm of Torment) spoke of a blinding light enveloping everything before the peninsula sank. Now I’m not sure what the Scrolls did exactly, but I strongly believe that the resulting geological calamity affected the ley line hub/system beneath Orr (and we know for a fact that the Source of Orr was such a powerful place of magic that it beckoned the human gods from across the Mists to come to Tyria), which could’ve easily resulted in a small stream being diverted straight to Zhaitan’s maw… he was sipping magic in coma, bringing his rise forth by a “meager” 100 years.

… which could’ve resulted in a corrupted streamlet of magic that Khilbron utilized to further his powers and raise an army. (Or it was what had made Khilbron into a lich with Zhaitan-like horns and draconic wings in the first place.)

The problem is that you’re taking Grubb’s words in a 100% literal way. What I think he meant there was that the Cataclysm neither hurt, nor woke (fully), nor killed Zhaitan (early on some of us — e.g. me — theorized that the dragon died in the Cataclysm and became undead afterwards). But it still affected him, given he sank with Orr, and through that he may have affected either the Cataclysm itself, or its aftermath.

Also, you seem to be forgetting just how malleable pre-release lore… especially one that is not in the game in any way, shape, or form.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

We’ve gotten confirmation that the Cataclysm affected Zhaitan in no way, shape, or form.

But it doesn’t mean Zhaitan couldn’t have affected the Cataclysm, Orr, or the aftermath in any way, shape, or form.

Also, it still had to have at least some effect on him. Even if his tomb was left untouched and even the tremors couldn’t reach him, he still found himself under both sea and land instead of just land when he woke.

Ayakaru.6583:

Thalador.4218:

AngelDiscarnate.5489:

I remember drytop and the surrounding area being home to a certain enemy that I’ve never been able to kill…
Maybe that’ll be Mordremoth’s champion… Rotwing. >__o¿

Rotwing resided in Majesty’s Rest, guarding the crypts of ancient Krytan royalty and nobility.

You mean Rotscale?
Rotwing is a type of weapon

Rotscale, yes. Thank you. I made the proper edit.

Still, it doesn’t change what I was getting at: Rotscale could be found in Majesty’s Rest, not Dry Top.

Nanashi.6297:

sMihaly.1492:

Birthday booster + a UNIQUE minipet that everyone will get + lvl20 scroll
Don’t expect anything better.

^this.

besides I don’t see a problem with that. be happy you get anything at THEIR “b-day”.

Wrong. The stuff we get is on our characters’ birthday. A character you created in December 2012 gets the very same stuff that the release day toons are gifted with.

As for their birthday (28 August 2012)… it wouldn’t hurt them (on the contrary) if they released features and content that the vast, vast majority of the player base would fancy. Something that could potentially save the game, extend its lifespan, keep people playing, and/or lure back many old quitters.

AngelDiscarnate.5489:

I remember drytop and the surrounding area being home to a certain enemy that I’ve never been able to kill…
Maybe that’ll be Mordremoth’s champion… Rotwing. >__o¿

Rotscale resided in Majesty’s Rest, guarding the crypts of ancient Krytan royalty and nobility.

Jenstone.6891:

LOL… I saw the reference to GW1 and Eye of the North…. reminded me of the Koss (GW1)strength elixir quest… the big bad monster that Koss (and party) was supposed to kill was a cute snuggly bunny….

Nope. It was a heket warrior in need of growth hormones.

Since we have found three pieces of the bloodstone already (in Guild Wars 1: Bloodstone Fen, Bloodstone Caves in Sparkfly Swamp, and Abaddon’s Mouth on the Ring of Fire island chain) and discovered the place where the sundering of the original Bloodstone occurred (Bloodstone’s Unmaking in the gardens of the Heavencrystal Palace of Arah)… no, there ‘s absolute 0% chance for the Bloodstone’s splitting being a distorted human story influenced by the Ascalonian crown, which is a gift from the Orrian royalty to the Ascalonian that was bestowed upon the latter after the Exodus and the limiting of magic.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

The Court’s benefit was solely “spreading Nightmare via the Tower of Nightmares”.

It was the most pathetic of explanations for all of Scarlet’s alliances.

And that says something, given how pathetic all the alliance explanations are (especially in the phase where they’ve already been routed and crushed at least once).

Oohh… o.O (This will be a little off-topic… just a little.)

What if Zhaitan moved into Orr from beneath? I see several directions he could’ve entered from, like a cavern system from the Scavenger’s Causeway leading to his eventual tomb in the southeastern quadrant of future Arah.

However, what I’d find a significantly more intriguing prospect is if he came through the ancient tunnels that would later be called the Shards of Orr… which would also imply that at one point in his activity during the last dragon cycle he resided in the Depths of Tyria. And actually, such concept would present a viable explanation for pretty grim mystery at last: the real origins of the Fleshreavers.

Behind a door overlooked by the unnerving Dracon Steles an Ancient Creature is entombed. It is a Fleshreaver, more than likely as old as the Steles themselves, capable of “replicating” itself (after it is first defeated, it recuperates but spawns hosts of veteran Fleshreavers that seemingly come out of nowhere). When Konig and I did those events quite some time ago, I was wondering why would the dwarves lock a Fleshreaver behind a mechanism that is shaped after menacing, roaring dragons. His answer was most compelling: Fleshreavers might have been a Zhaitan-corrupted species from eons ago (or simply his creations by molding bones and rotting flesh). Which would make sense, given how undead-like and twisted these creatures are. The one captured and held by Steles (an enormous warning sign) could not be killed for some reason, while the rest of its kin (the Fleshreavers in general) continued to spread in the Depths… until either the Destroyers (the Depths are primarily Primordus’ turf) or the dwarves — after their return from Glint’s concealment — exterminated most of them.

Otherwise, I completely agree with Lakdav and Drax. Orr and Arah was the last stand of the elder races, and thus Zhaitan easily smelled out one of last concentrations of sweet, unconsumed magic hoarded there. He approached Orr from beneath, stalking through the Depths, but by the time he arrived on the peninsula/island, all of it was simply gone… everything and everyone just vanished.

Jaken.6801:

Makes no sense anyway…

We lost enough pirates captain council members against Scarlet, so there ar eplenty of open seats to fill, if I am not mistaken

Funny thing is, all those worthless vermin survived, while the people they were supposed to protect (for example, by listening to the warnings of the Pact Commander and right-hand man of the Grand Marshal or whatever Trahearne is) died left and right. (Of course, we only have to look as far as the current “writing team” to understand the sole reason why everything happened so nonsensically.)

I’d rather see the entire Council thrown into the shallow waters from Diverse Ledges — sans Kiel, maybe… at least she tried to warn those pathetic scum of the coming danger. However, I’d still want her removed from her seat.

As for Evon, he had all the wealth in the world to prepare against an invasion, but he did nothing but mumble under his muzzle about the coming doom and curse those who hadn’t voted for him. Imagine if he’d built anti-air batteries all over the bay and raised a personal, highly trained and geared mercenary army privy to the tactics of Scarlet’s alliances… he’d have become the hero of the people who’d have outright defenestrated the Council in order to make way for the ascendance of Lord Commodore Evon Gnasblade the First, High Admiral of Lion’s Arch and the Sea of Sorrows… right after the dust settled, revealing that Scarlet’s puny invasion was crushed on the second day, with the Breachmaker shot down before any ley-line-threatening drilling could’ve commenced.

AVM.5746:

Rurik had a fling with one of the Ascalon refugees during GW1.

Now you got me… this is something I have no recollection of. Could you provide the source, please?

Teofa Tsavo.9863:

This “writing” team is beyond redemption. The “story” has gone too far, is too riddled with contradiction and plot holes, and too much time is being spent in current chapters attempting (and failing) to explain past plot catastrophes. Too much effort wasted trying to rationalize the way Scarlett was characterized, and the wasted effort is ongoing, creating yet more plot holes to be repaired down the line. if ever.

In addition the thing is just a mess of popular tropes and stock fanfic elements with little attempt to actually fit any of it to Tyria and the cultures. Nearly all fiction is derivative now, but little attempt was made to at least make some effort to fitting it to the Tyrian world.

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

Although my soul’s weeping, I must accept the truth:

Guild Wars is dead, long live “Guild Wars (2)”!

Invidia.9074:

The summit is attacked (probably by Mordremoth’s vines/minions/himself).

Dragons feed on magic, Mordremoth attacked most fiercely only those places where magical artifacts were stored.

Trahearne is attending the summit.

Trahearne has Caladbolg which was used to friggin purify Orr – the amount of magic channeled through it must be like a giant FREE MUNCHIES neon sign in a dark cave for Mordy.

Mordremoth eats Pact Marshal and his sword.

Player’s rejoice.

Caladbolg was destroyed for the exact reason to purify Orr. It’s still lodged/broken in the Source of Orr.

Xukavi.4320:

I know this probably doesn’t have any link and probably any lore guru here would hate me for this but…anyone notice how the trailer refers to the ancient evil from the west (Mordy) as the Shadow of the Dragon which is coincidentally also the name of the dragon in the Sylvari tutorial?

My bet? The Shadow of the Dragon’s model will be reused and it’s going to be Mordy’s champion descending on the Omphalos Chamber.

And here I wanted to create my new thread dedicated to the very observation Webtoehobbit had made here…. curse my laziness for not doing it two days earlier.

No, it’s not just you, but I’d also include the entirety of Orr and not just the city of Arah when comparing it to the “natural” formations inside a ley line hub.

Those Orrian ring structures have been driving me mad since the early days of my first exploration of Orr. I mean, even if you just open the map and drag it to the Artesian Waters in Cursed Shore, you’ll find dozens of those tiny circles staring at you, mocking you with their mysteries.

The only reference — outside the visual one with their excessive use all over the land — comes from a skill challenge in Cursed Shore:

It’s unknown what purpose these giant rings once served, but they fell with such a force that they’re now half buried in the Orrian soil.

— http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Strange_Ring_Structures

And even this little tidbit is almost worth a middle finger from the rings themselves.

However, as I explored the hub and found a paper detailing that magical rays shooting through stone circles are actually a natural phenomenon for ley lines, I couldn’t help but think of the resemblance to Orr. Then after a quick glance at the aforementioned cluster of rings around the Artesian Waters — beneath which there ought to be a gigantic hub, too — I was most certain that the similarity is not coincidence.

I theorize that first the gods, then after Exodus the Orrians as well, built an artificial, above-the-ground ley line hub system that encompasses most of the peninsula/island. The ring structures with their varying sizes could’ve been conduits, capacitors, and enhancers of magic, effectively connecting the enormous quantities of magic radiating from the Source of Orr into every corner of the kingdom, imbuing everyone and everything with the Source’s power. Of course, after the Cataclysm most of the rings were damaged or fell into the soil, thus disrupting the network through which the magic traveled above ground.

Yet still, in localized sections it might’ve still remained intact. Konig pointed this out to me, and I think it may further serve as proof for the theory: the rings holding those brass-and-glass globes in the jotun path of Arah contain something called ‘green light’ that created the crystalline entities we are forced to defeat to advance. Greenish, tealish light is also the color of raw magical energies as we now know. (Although this light contained within those globes is most likely corrupted, since as we stand in the path of the rays cast on the ground, we gain a buff/debuff that allows us to damage the entities but also ticks our health more and more rapidly with each stack of green light accumulated.)

Tl;dr: The ring structures are parts in an enormous artificial magic-conducting system encompassing all of Orr in order to provide the Source’s magic to all corners of the land. It was originally initiated by the Six, then the Orrians continued building it after the gods had left. I think it would be a very interesting discovery if proven correct; the gods’ level of magitechnology being so advanced as to allow the construction of an artificial ley line system.