Guild Wars 2

oZii.2864:

Thyophelis.8035:

o i didn t know that cleansing water doesn t have a icd in wvw. wierd I droped it after that patch, when cleansing flame was no stun braker anymore and I was forced to used ether renewal

so lets agree in Spvp with elemental attunement the trait is still useless?

Yea I would agree there. Yea in WvW cleansing water doesn’t have a icd.

So a 3 sec weakness / blind in addition would make sense and actually adress one of the core problems the ele has.

o i didn t know that cleansing water doesn t have a icd in wvw. wierd I droped it after that patch, when cleansing flame was no stun braker anymore and I was forced to used ether renewal

so lets agree in Spvp with elemental attunement the trait is still useless?

you cannot control when you get crit hit, this trait will probably go off in the window 1-4 sec before or after you changed to water and you gain 0, nada, nothing from your adept tier.

together with elemental attunement this trait is useless. And I still consider elemental atunement to be the best trait for an elementalist.

oZii.2864:

Thyophelis.8035:

Soothing Wave redesign: Gain Regeneration(3s) on incoming critical hits. 10s recharge.

Honestly replacing unpopular traits with useless ones isn t gona do much. I would add a blind or 2-3 sec weakness to that trait also on a 10-15 sec cooldown.

Suggestion Soothing Wave redesign: Gain Regeneration(3s) on incoming critical hits and blind (or weaken)your foe for 3 seconds. 12s recharge.

I feel the elementalists lacks defensiv skills during combat. My Guard has got 3 blinds, all of them do good dmg 2 are gap closers, leap finishers and 1 even removes a condition, then focus 5 is 3 blocks and good burst potental, sword 2 blocks projectiles, my heal blocks, my elite blocks. Together with AH or Healing meditations and heals on dodge he s got as much self heal as the ele has, when not more.
If I look @ the ele he just doesn t have enough. scepter has got 2 blinds, the earth one is dire, cast time, not doing any dmg @ all and having no second function, and earth 2 has a slight armor increase.
Staff has got good cc ability, and 1 movement skill, my warrior s got 98% cc cond reduction and 2-3 times stability, there s certainly no staff ele gona stop me from killing anything. The blind is weak and the pressure on a single target is nonexistant. The Staff eles I can t ignore hit me with fireballs of 1.6k dmg, when I hit em with my hammer they eat 4k+ per swing final trust can hit up to 7k+ dmg
the only weapon that offers good defensiv skills is the focus, but @ the loss of mobility and dmg.

Run S/D there is plenty of blinds there. The soothing wave trait is pretty good for a adept tier trait. Regen with out having to go into water that is sustain that you have that doesn’t depend on you blowing a cantrip or a 6th skill. The real gem of it is with 30 water otherwise I wouldn’t take it over the other options. More healing without having to go into water is a very good trait. I think 5 sec (base) would be better though.

with plenty you mean 2? one of it has a cast time and does basicly no dmg. the other does no dmg at all. compared to other classes blinds who always have a secondary effect and dmg on top of that the earth blind is pretty crap. Necros have an ae blind that transfers 3 conditions and does dmg. thiefs have ae blind, smoke fields. the ae blinds on my guard hit for up to 2k dmg and are gap closers.
I mean lets be honest what does the new trait do? Most eles have perma regen on them, so all this trait does is remove 1 condition every 10 sec when you get critical hit and you need a grandmaster trait for it to work. even worth is if this trait goes off at the wrong time 1-4 sec before or after you switched to water, gaining no benefit from it at all..
One reason to use it, could be if you don t have elemental atunement anymore. So in order for an elementalist to get what he had trough elemental atunement is basicly spend 30 points in weak adept tiers to get half the duration of the boons he had before with Elemental attunement.

You loose regen and vigor on cantrips, which is an on demand 1 cond removal.
For prolly 95% of the ele builds this is just another useless trait in the adept water trait.

I don t understand people advocating this changes. besides the 13 sec base elemental attunement recharge, it s just nerfs for a class that is already at the bottom of the food chain.
Eles need help to cope with spike dmg and condition bursts, the sustain is fine atm.. a blind on crit would go exactly in the right direction.

Soothing Wave redesign: Gain Regeneration(3s) on incoming critical hits. 10s recharge.

Honestly replacing unpopular traits with useless ones that only work in addition to a grand master trait isn t gona do much. I would add a blind or 2-3 sec weakness to that trait also on a 10-15 sec cooldown.

Suggestion Soothing Wave redesign: Gain Regeneration(3s) on incoming critical hits and blind (or weaken)your foe for 3 seconds. 12s recharge.

now we have a trait that realy is atractiv and exctly helps the ele where he needs it in avoiding spike
I feel the elementalists lacks defensiv skills during combat. My Guard has got 3 blinds, all of them do good dmg 2 are gap closers, leap finishers and 1 even removes a condition, then focus 5 is 3 blocks and good burst potental, sword 2 blocks projectiles, my heal blocks, my elite blocks. Together with AH or Healing meditations and heals on dodge he s got as much self heal as the ele has, when not more and all that in adition to around 3 k armor with 5 berserker pieces.
If I look @ the ele he just doesn t have enough spike mitigation and is pressed defensivly as soon as he gets hit. scepter has got 2 blinds, the earth one is dire, cast time, not doing any dmg @ all and having no second function, and earth 2 has a slight armor increase.
Staff has got good cc ability, and 1 movement skill, my warrior s got 98% cc cond reduction and 2-3 times stability, there s certainly no staff ele gona stop me from killing anything. The blind is weak and the pressure on a single target is nonexistant. The Staff eles I can t ignore hit me with fireballs of 1.6k dmg, when I hit em with my hammer they eat 4k+ per swing final trust can hit up to 7k+ dmg
the only weapon that offers good defensiv skills is the focus, but @ the loss of mobility and dmg.

You make it sound like I have a choice against who we would play… We are a 5 -10 man guild and the most important thing for us is to have Fun and a good fight. We do not play on EB and we will not join the 1 spammers. I don t give a kitten about the score in the end. But if I wanted to be called a number 1 Server, I would start to show some balls. Every day we meet Vizu grps that outnumber us but will not engage. They will retreat on to the bridge or closer to their tower and wait till they get even more. It s not enough that you have 12 vs 8. You wait till you have 20 people and basicly force us to retreat. I agree Vizunah is the most Disciplined and best organised Server that has crossed our path but dmn are you unwilling to have anything close to a challening fight.

Actualy it s not overpowered at all. It s exactly how warriors and guards get their dmg up, by stacking +10% dmg boosts together. +10% when endurance is not full, +25% when enemy is knocked down, +10% when an enemy has a condition / bleeding +3% per boon thats exactly how players get their dmg up.

But the elementalist he can t, first because he has to specc defensiv and second because our traits are weak. earth has +10% when endurance is full, which is basicly never then we get water who doesn t have any dmg at all and even requieres us to put a cond on someone.
[/quote]

If you want to go HAM, you can play 0/30/25/10/5 with scholar runes if you want and get:
+10% in air
+10% w/in 600 range
+10% with full endurace (possible on ranged)
+10% above 90% health (water trait)
+10% above 90% health (runes)
+5% from force sigil
+ fury on swap

That is +55% max-glass burst spec (not viable mind you), but is possible.

And you will still get lots of air procs, and even take arcanes to try and 1-shot or be 1-shotted.

awesome I can get 55% easely with a guard or warrior without being screwed if the enemy dodges Phoenix air spike

Guard +10% when burning, +10% when a condition, +10 when endurance is not full, +20% when aegis is up… o and scholar runes… +10 when above 90…
The difference is this is actualy possible to acomplish with all the blinds the guard gets.
In comparison to stay over 90% health while not dodging… honestly I think everyone can gank afk players….

warrior does the same thing but when the enemy is on the ground or stunned, while beeing super tanky and with 100% crit chance. If you got stability up, np I ll just wait till it runs out while my endure pain, shield blocks and healing signet keep me @ 100% health.

If you want to burst people down play a mesmer, Thief or Warrior. Atleast this classes don t loose all their potential after beeing hit for 1500 dmg.

[quote=3150824;BlackBeard.2873:]

ohhh isn t that nice to hear. Vizuna are all a big happy family holding hands together. If there s a fair fight to be had we run. If we don t outnumber our enemys 2:1 we call for reinforcements. I can list a lot of good guilds from different Servers. Not sure how many times we had matches against Vizunah but still I cannot list one good guild that impresses me.

Can someone from another Server name me one? Maybe I ll find the tag between the other 70 Vizus one day.

JonPeters.5630:

I think this trait needs better wording. I hope you all understand why that trait would be wildly overpowered if it carried over everything particularly all 10% damage bonuses. You could simply slam through all attunements and then get 50% bonus damage. Similarly making other things work with this would requires those traits get lowered in the base case as well. I think this is a fine 15 point minor trait on its own and we can reword it and then discuss the merits of the other traits on their own.

To me, that is a better starting point for discussion than attempting to balance all of these effects with how they might work with a minor trait in Arcana. That would predicate the entire profession around that trait which is not what we want out of our minor traits.

Jon

Actualy it s not overpowered at all. It s exactly how warriors and guards get their dmg up, by stacking +10% dmg boosts together. +10% when endurance is not full, +25% when enemy is knocked down, +10% when an enemy has a condition / bleeding +3% per boon thats exactly how players get their dmg up.

But the elementalist he can t, first because he has to specc defensiv and second because our traits are weak. earth has +10% when endurance is full, which is basicly never then we get water who doesn t have any dmg at all and even requieres us to put a cond on someone.

if we wanted to stack this traits, we couldn t take defensiv traits making us sacrifice defense for offense exctly how it should be. Yes I know burst eles can hand out a good punch but after their burst they are incredibly weak for 10 sec and die a miserable death, specially in grp fights if they are getting focused.

Don t bother fixing lingering effects, 2 of the effects are useless anyway and the 2 others don t make the difference. remove the trait and put evasiv arcana as a minor trait instead and we are happy.

-Lack of base Survivability,
-weak traits
-long cooldowns on Utility skills
-unreliabel dmg skills on weapons

Well to give you the truth on Elementalists in wvw. Do you wana be a squishy support classs that if you get caught in the wrong place instantly dies? Forget about bursting, if you wana hurt people you have to spec pretty glassy and then you will hit people for about the same dmg that the supper tanky warrior does, the only difference is, you have no clue who you will hit with your spells, but they do.
Do yourself a favour and don t roll a Elementalist. It s one of the worst classes to play in this game and it s getting worse every patch.

Thank you very much John for participating in the debate. It is great to hear that you are sceptical of some changes aswell. I have to admit I was very outraged, when I read the patch notes, because I fear a friend of mine will stop playing the game when his wvw rank 500+ dd ele gets another swing of the nerf bat (and this is a big one). I have mained a ele for a long time but couldn t handle it myself anymore so I moved on to other classes but he didnt and I feel his pain.

IMHO of a small scale wvw player:

Diamond Skin -bad idea… this will be completely overpowered against the very popular dire condition builds in a 1vs1 Situation and will become totaly useless in grp play where it is very difficult to stay over 90% without disengaging. It gives me a feeling of rock paper sissors, which I think is a horrible concept to balance a game.
I can also see some very lame builds coming up with this one in combination with focus.

Cleansing Wave – very upsetting that in this cond heavy meta, the current builds will have to sacrifice even more to get some cond removal, specially when all the options in the water adept tear are worthless. You are evaluating traits and then ordering them by their value, which in theory is correct but you are not thinking about the players. Unfortunately there is an over abundance of useless traits in this tree. The Traits are actualy not designed by the actual gameplay, but of a idea of a elementals. Like: lets get 3 water traits together and make them do vulnerability and chill… water puts out fire… and the worst part: more dmg when attuned to water ?!?!

-Don t take away more cond removal from dd eles…
Elementalists are allready pressed defensivly from the beginning, when getting condition spiked by incendiary power and dhoomfire builds [which are borderline broken, specially compared to burning precision: 30% chance to apply 1 sec of burning (2sec cd) vs 100% chance to apply 4 sec of burning (10sec cd)… please…]

before going through with this changes to the water line: give the ele decent alternatives in the adept tree . 6 basicly worthless Traits as option in an adept tree is only gona upset more Elementalists.

I find all the cooldown lowering traits for the ele are totally subpar to other classes. we are only 25% of the time in one element and gain no aditional benefits from this traits. other classes are 50% of the time using this weapons and always get aditional benefits… makes absolutely no sense to me and I always felt elementalists get duble screwed on the cd lowering traits.

Most eles don t need soothing disruption since they already have perma regen and well before this comming nerf had vigor, so the only point to take it is together with cleansing water.

Arcane:
Taking away the ability take arcane atunement and evasive arcana is a HUGE nerf to the class and my guess is it will brake the dd eles spine in small grp fights.

The build might still work in 1vs1 with cleansing water and soothing disruption but this is really pigeon holding the dd ele into a old spec, that we have being forced out of since months, when some eles are just starting to enjoy trying out new builds.

Suggestion if you want to go through with forcing players out of evasive arcana: Zephyrs speed is a useless trait and if it could be replaced with something like 30% endurance gain while attuned to air, that would be a be awesome. You can then go on and remove evasive arcana from the ele class so this doesn t get abused.

an other option would be to make arcane atunement one of the minor traits, since all the elementalists need it and lingering atunements and specialy arcane precision are very lack luster traits.

I find the Elementalist is a great support class, but suffers alot from grp play, since he gains basicly no defensive benefit from other classes exept, stealth from other classes and guardians stability and cond removal, while beeing pretty fragile to bursts. I cannot count how many times we instakilled elementalists with a cordinated spike of 3-8 people. On the other extreme we have a warrior who has amazing defensiv abilitys but profits from all the defensiv abilitys a guardian and elementalist provide and becomes a real Juggernaut when buffed with protection and regen.
Something similar to Altruistic Healing could really help the Elementalist in this 5 man scenarious.

It s funny how people perceive conditions. It s something that you should just be able to click away when it s applied. But it s a skill a player used and it should have an effect and do dmg like when you hit someone with a hammer, he has to counter that dmg with a heal that is probably on a 25sec timer. This fix will do wvw only good, with it s current tank train meta. I ve been playing a guard for over a month now and I have to say in its current state it is an incredible strong trait combined with the short cooldowns the shouts have, certainly compared to what other classes have(xept warrior who now have basicly on demand removal) . I ve been abusing this since i got to 80 together with AH and prety offensiv gear with great success and I do agree with the fix

very nice video of a roaming grp and an ele who knows his trade :-). what bothers me is the grp setup of 3 guards, that are carrying the team with their amazing cond removal and stability. I have nothing against guards, but if 40% of the wvw population are guards it gets pretty old. Some moments you really shine, specialy when you lightnign flash up to ruins, and knock some of them down and kill about 7-8 ppl who are on top. that jump off the cliffs @ east supply camp – pure class :-)

I love how you push through the lines, I used to play my ele like that till I dusted him after getting sick of the constant nerf hammer. Don t get me wrong I completely agreed that the dd ele had to be toned down, but it was just to much and they haven t stoped yet, evasiv arcana is next in line in getting a big radius nerf.

Big respekt to TMNT from Piken the only guild i ve seen so far who refuses to blob. If you guys want some small scale send me a pm, we can arrange that we are on the same map. We run 3-8 man grps on a dayli basis mostly after 8:00 pm cet.

Arheundel.6451:

Thyophelis.8035:

Now the main spike build might shift to 0/30/0/20/20. If you can’t see the value of having air attunement on call every 5 seconds I have nothing more to say really.

I can see how awesome that is for the scepter burst build. I just don t value scepter much exept for pve, where dragon tooth will actualy hit something and i can might stack with it. scepter still doesn t offer much, 2 good spells and really lousy autoattack dmg. If I want range dmg I ll use my mesmer because my autoattack can actual crit for 3k+ dmg and that even @ 1200 range.

Well I don t know about your build, but you leave out 2 of the most important stats for eles, toughness and healing power. I haven t tested it, so can t comment on your experience, I play the ele completely different. with no healing power and no toughness you re taking away all the sustainability of the ele.

The other day I tested a cond. dmg build, trying to trigger burning precision(don t bother, doesn t proc as often as you need it in spvp). I had like 1300 HP i was shocked :-P But wasn t to bad, I could solo thiefs, just if 2 players came it was game over.

well I wish you all good luck, with your new and exiting builds. I ll have me some ele s on my warrior or mesmer, served on a plate.
take care

ele burst survivability is low compared to mesmer?…gl on your mesmer you’ll need it with that glass spec, because eles can burst even more on you while having way better stats,a well played s/d burst ele is the last thing you want to go against..

Just fought against r44 champion illusionist, double lightning strike+arcane blast..his life already at 30%…he tries shatter burst , plus chaos field and temporal curtain..he thinks to have won…I use updraft while immobilized, hence avoiding all burst without using a single cantrip ( in case you didn’t know updraft skill count as a dodge XD )…I switch to fire and close range phoenix to bring home victory ( this was third time out of 4, lost one because the coward moa formed me at 40% HP….so make sure to bring always moa form with you)

…really my friend…gl on your mesmer..you’ll need it..a lot^^, whoever it may be, I devastate you with air burst, if I catch you with full scepter burst..you’re no more, I can bring full tanks down to 20% HP once they eat my full burst, I count dodges..1-2-3-4..then come my updraft – dragon tooth’s/phoenix/air burst+arcane blast, of course during those 4 counts your HP will sit on 40% due to short CD air burst and with the new GM trait…god may have mercy on your soul

well I m not sure, should i be impressed by r44? I m glad you won 3 duells against a mesmer. You got him with dragontooth? well that should tell us alot about his skill. also using a staff against a ranged burst class is probably the worst choice for a mesmer. I m looking forward to duell against a scepter ele. unfortunately I have never found one roaming alone on a wvw map and I roam every day in WvW.

The scepter build certainly has it s strenghts in 1vs1, like most berserker builds do and I m sure you ll be able to kill a decent amount of people with it. I mean one of the best spvp ers runs scepter burst. But in small scale it quickly becomes too fragile. while I know 120% crit dmg Mesmers running in 25 guild teams and doing incredibly well.

Now the main spike build might shift to 0/30/0/20/20. If you can’t see the value of having air attunement on call every 5 seconds I have nothing more to say really.

I can see how awesome that is for the scepter burst build. I just don t value scepter much exept for pve, where dragon tooth will actualy hit something and i can might stack with it. scepter still doesn t offer much, 2 good spells and really lousy autoattack dmg. If I want range dmg I ll use my mesmer because my autoattack can actual crit for 3k+ dmg and that even @ 1200 range.

Well I don t know about your build, but you leave out 2 of the most important stats for eles, toughness and healing power. I haven t tested it, so can t comment on your experience, I play the ele completely different. with no healing power and no toughness you re taking away all the sustainability of the ele.

The other day I tested a cond. dmg build, trying to trigger burning precision(don t bother, doesn t proc as often as you need it in spvp). I had like 1300 HP i was shocked :-P But wasn t to bad, I could solo thiefs, just if 2 players came it was game over.

well I wish you all good luck, with your new and exiting builds. I ll have me some ele s on my warrior or mesmer, served on a plate.
take care

Ehecatl.9172:

Thyophelis.8035:

Ehecatl.9172:

ARM.3912:

Ehecatl.9172:

ARM.3912:

Taking away two stun breakers from d/d, IMO that is the final nail in the coffin since the class cant survive without mobility.

Nobody is taking stunbreakers away. They are just being redistributed to different skills so builds that aren’t completely cantrip focused aren’t royally screwed whenever they get hit by a stun.

By definition they are taking stunbreakers away. You would have to be an Anet to run a glyph that gives you burning(already in fire), weakness(already in air), chill(already in water) and cripple(already in earth). If you want to run a glyph that gives you what you already have, and lose out on a teleport that actually keeps you alive be my guest. Oh, and kiss earth 5 goodbye. Since you are running glyphs now good luck landing that one.

Lightning Flash is still in the game. It’s not a stunbreaker anymore, but it still teleports you. If the leaked notes are true they also increased the damage of it by 50% (Turning it into a heavier burst to add to a burst combo) and reduced the cooldown to 40 seconds (Meaning you can use it much more frequently, almost matching Churning Earth’s cooldown). Seems to me they’ve tailored the skill specifically toward landing Churning Earth.

D/D is still far, far, far away from being unusable. Just now your solid cantrip set up isn’t as loaded with stunbreakers as before.

I can still survive pretty darn well without having three stunbreakers on my utility bar. I’m not seeing what the massive problem is.

o don t worry you ll soon find out, when you re eating hundert blades and the new mesmer hasted shatter spike including a 2500+dmg buff.

most classes got buffs for the already existing builds. Only Eles got nerfed in the vital parts… survivability.
All warriors got a 5 sec reduced cooldown on their heals.

Mist Form. Signet of Air. Armor of Earth…

… Problem solved?

Seriously. Lightning Flash isn’t the only stunbreaker we have. And it’s still a great skill with a lot of utility on a shorter cooldown than it was before. That means more maneuverability, more zapping in for a churning earth spike, and more controlling the range you’re fighting at. If you were only using this skill for the stunbreak you were seriously undervaluing it’s potential.

Other professions got buffs. Good for them. And while they may have gotten buffed more than us, that doesn’t mean we should turn up our noses at the buffs we did get. This patch is giving eles loads of buffs and a couple amazing traits that very well might give us entirely new builds. Be happy!

well, i can t stand mist form since the patch, best use of it i find is to stomp or res someone. I use Healing signet and using mistform makes me loose over 1000 hp healed, while conditions are still eating away my live, and since it s a o kitten button, you re prolly already low on live.

I may also ask how will you remove a root if it s covered by another condition? If i keep playing my ele i will still use burning flame, because of all the fotm engies out there, corrupt boon and ranger roots when i m in locked in the wrong atunement

I ve played the burster ele for a while, and it only shines to burst down some thiefes. In small scale, as soon as i see the lightning channel anymation he s priority target. Most scepter/d eles you see nowadays don t even run offensiv gear, more like hibryd gear that is abit more offensiv then a dd ele uses. ever wondered why? because their survivability is crap

But hey you guys are all welcome to test it out. We ve tryed builds since release and have found that bunker is the only way to compete with other classes. I m not sure if you remember this forums before the 0 10 0 30 30 with boon duration was published. But it was a huge whine fest and the new patch will not change anything about our survivability with more offensiv speccs, we will still rely on cantrips to survive, but 2 of em are no stunbrakers anymore. You think 300 toughness while chaneling skills is gona help you survive? well here s some news for you, spike dmg is landed together with stuns and/or with immobalize. all you will be having to avoid that dmg is mistform, after that you re toast. you really think that a blind on 4 people is gona help you survive, with 17k life and barely any toughness? you better keep smashing that dodge button.

I know what will change for me In the new META, elementalists will be pretty high on my priority target list. atm you ignore em because they will disengage and heal up. But if ele s start ignoring their cond removal, they ll die rooted to the ground.

BlackBeard.2873:

I am actually REALLY excited about the change to signet of air! It is now a 30s (24s traited) stun-break, that does aoe-blinds, and passively increases speed to near-swiftness levels when not used. It is an absolutely beastly defensive utility, because it is always doing something for you. We used to need 3 cantrips for the stun-breaks b/c they were on such a long cooldown, but I would be comfortable with signet of air alone if I were playing aggressive (or in a signet build), or signet of air + mistform for stunbreaks if I wanted to bunker. This is actually a serious buff. The damage mitigation is great: stunbreak + aoe blind on 30s cooldown. Think about it!

let me see, signet of airs passiv is pretty bad if you have perma swiftness up, so only people without perma swiftness will use it. Now if you use your stunbraker, you ll loose your mobility for 30 s? maybee you can squeeze in 10sec of quickness from swapping to air. This will not let you outrun your opponents, specially with all the buffs to warrior mobility. With the result, that you ll prolly die in this 30 sec till your air signet is up again.

This Patch is just tricking people into not beeing able to kite as well or go more offensiv. Everyone who s played the ele extensivly knows, if you don t have a crap load of defensiv stats you re just a easy kill on the field. Your dmg by going offensivly will always be inferior to other classes who have better escape or avoidance mechanisms built in or in their weapon sets. points @ Mesmers, or actually all classes with movememnt skills.

While the updates on the staff are certainly nice, it still wont change that you need the opponent to stand in your aoe field, which we know from our experience is not happening.
scepter still only has 2 good offensiv spells, and some really crappy auto attacks.The Phoenix change is really good, because it s the only thing worth using in fire.

If you read the patch notes of other classes, you ll see that they all got improvements to their existing builds. Just check the warrior, it s an over abbundance of nice changes.
all we have got is nerfs to our existing competitive build and some improvements to abilitys who were and still will be subpar.

The staff eles changes are nice for the current Paintrain META, no doubt about that.
But there will be no stoping warriors, when they have become immune to slow effects and have basicly perma stability up.

all in all 1 thing will change for the ele with this patch. You ll die alot more often and we will represent the META ranking in a lower position

Carighan.6758:

They’re thinking that it’s high time we get our traits finally sorted out, I suspect. If these turn out to be anything but fake.

I hate how just because people think their world is ending if PvP is imbalanced, that’s an excuse to leave class-design broken. First comes design, then you balance the finished design. So first you sort out the internal (ignoring all other classes, as if they didn’t exist, for better or worse) inconsistencies for traits, then only once you’re done you look at the other classes and figure out who has to give and who gains.

class design broken? you must not play many other classes then. Mesmers got it pretty good atm and can specc for whatever they want. Yes there are useless traits in there but there s always a good alternativ. If you wan t to go burst, we are top dogs, if you want survival, you have good options and our phantasms will do the dmg. You can go cond dmg and not even care about confusion.

There are so many effectiv Mesmer builds out there and you can use armor or weapons as you wish with it. you can be phantasm with tank or offensiv gear, you can shatter as full glass canon or a mix of equip, use greatsword or staff as secondary weapon and you re always effectiv.

That cannot be said about any other class imo.

The only downside to my Mesmers is the condition removal on long cooldown, we ve got.

best advice you can get.. play a mesmer… whoever is in charge of elementalists @ Anet really doesn t give a dmn about the class. We are beeing forced left and right to play in ways to be effectiv, that i wouldn t wish to anyone.

Ehecatl.9172:

ARM.3912:

Ehecatl.9172:

ARM.3912:

Taking away two stun breakers from d/d, IMO that is the final nail in the coffin since the class cant survive without mobility.

Nobody is taking stunbreakers away. They are just being redistributed to different skills so builds that aren’t completely cantrip focused aren’t royally screwed whenever they get hit by a stun.

By definition they are taking stunbreakers away. You would have to be an Anet to run a glyph that gives you burning(already in fire), weakness(already in air), chill(already in water) and cripple(already in earth). If you want to run a glyph that gives you what you already have, and lose out on a teleport that actually keeps you alive be my guest. Oh, and kiss earth 5 goodbye. Since you are running glyphs now good luck landing that one.

Lightning Flash is still in the game. It’s not a stunbreaker anymore, but it still teleports you. If the leaked notes are true they also increased the damage of it by 50% (Turning it into a heavier burst to add to a burst combo) and reduced the cooldown to 40 seconds (Meaning you can use it much more frequently, almost matching Churning Earth’s cooldown). Seems to me they’ve tailored the skill specifically toward landing Churning Earth.

D/D is still far, far, far away from being unusable. Just now your solid cantrip set up isn’t as loaded with stunbreakers as before.

I can still survive pretty darn well without having three stunbreakers on my utility bar. I’m not seeing what the massive problem is.

o don t worry you ll soon find out, when you re eating hundert blades and the new mesmer hasted shatter spike including a 2500+dmg buff.

most classes got buffs for the already existing builds. Only Eles got nerfed in the vital parts… survivability.
All warriors got a 5 sec reduced cooldown on their heals.

LOL @ this patch. yea i m glad we are all exited about some staff and scepter burst options. GL with it, it will take 2 sec to burst you down with a mesmer or thief.

LOL :

Halting Strike: Damage dealt when interrupting enemies has been increased by 500%

Furious Interruption: This trait now grants 3 seconds of quickness when interrupting a foe. This effect can only occur once every 15 seconds!!! Jackpot

omg, people will cry so hard, about sword pistol spikes.
I ll burry my ele and never look back.

Honestly, what are they thinking?

well i m glad, staff ele s got their cast times reduced and the delay for the dmg to hit is shortened. I still wont play it because it s a awfull weapon for any serious pvp er.
My build is nerfed once again, loose 2 stunbreakers, and a dmg reduced by 5-7%.
Nothing interesting for any utility or elite skill.

The things i was hoping the most were not introduced. improving the hitbox of firegrab and making anything usefull of dragon tooth. it stays an absolutely useless spell, that you re beeter off without using. All the scepter dmg will still come from swaping into air and Phoenix ( the only realy postiv thing i see for myself in this patch)
autoattack dmg has not been upgraded so we still hit like a lvl 15 warrior.

biggest disapointment, no positiv changes to the fire line, specially the useless passiv ones. no improvement of any kind to condition builds, while mesmer get boosted even more with theirs.

I ll probably go for scepter/d burst and try out the new master trait and die a 100 horribel deaths to thiefs and mesmers.

nothing new: Anet invents the strangest solutions nobody was asking for.

nice to see ECL roaming with 3-5 people this evening, I regret that we had 1 more player on both occasions . And I concurr with alot of the voices here that Baruch are a very nice oponent. From smallscale, soloers, 25man guilds, blobbs you can see everything. We had alot of nice duels today behind the windmill on the sfr map and hell they got some strong players. Baruch also seems to be very motivated this week, or maybee the other servers don t have so many people because of the nice weather.
It s become pretty pointless for us to take back the spawntower because of the low numbers we have to defend it afterwards.

Frenk.5917:

Thyophelis.8035:

let s keep this civil, pls. XAOC, BOOM, OSC, iddq and the rest of the SFR blobbers stick together because their skill is below average. We engage them on a regular basis when they outnumber us in a ratio 1:2 or higher because I know every member of my team pulls the weight of 2 of em.

OSC never played in the same borderland of Xaoc, BOOM and/or Iddq. If it happened, it wasn’t during prime time and we didn’t provide a full 25-30 men team. Moreover we only collaborate with the other guilds in the borderland if there are massive enemy blobs, but I think you don’t believe me just like I think you wrote bullkitten.

Do you mind if I ask you which guild do you represent?

lol ok you must only play during primetime. because since OSC has been back on SFR several of your members run on a dayli basis along with the afternoon Karmatrain of BOOM, iddq, XAOC zerging the crap out of spawntowers against oposition of 5-10 people with huge numbers.
Don t get me wrong I was a big admirer of OSC since week 5 or so when we met for the first time and you were the most organised grp I ve seen for a long time. I was looking forward to meeting you again and the joy was big when you transfered to an enemy server in SFR. In this 3 weeks I have only seen one pure OSC grp, consisting of 10 members running close to another SFR zerg near our spawntower because Kodash was also blobbing like usual. we engaged you with our 5 man.
what disapoints me is that there s plenty of good fights to be had with 5 ppl but your members prefere to ride the Karmatrain with blobbers from your server.
my flamming is therefore more based on disapointement then anything else.

my guild is in my signature and you ll never see us tagging along our commanders exept maybee @ ruins when the zerg is stealing our kills.

I m not sure which 3 you mean: The 3 WISE, or 5 NUKE or x SP or x Kom. ANd what s that thing with different direction, didn t you all end up in the lord room 20 sec later?? There s close to 20 People running towards a single mesmer, and you didn t get me btw.
All I am saying you shouldn t bee whining on the forums that other people blobb if you also join forces with other guilds to outnumber your enemy by a higher ratio of 3:1.

And yes blobbing might consist of different numbers from different perspectives. For me in a roaming guild of solo to max 10 people blobbing starts @35+ people. For you in a 20+ guild it might start @ 50+. But it always entails the same. You don t requiere skill to overwhelm your oponent.

majos.8503:

Thyophelis.8035:

Honestly BOOM crying about a Blobb? you guys don t do anything but blobb or lay around in downstate.

BTW here some nice screenshots of SiN running around in 40+, I remember some of your members complaining about the certain topic :-)

IMHO You ve only got the right to complain if you don t do it yourself.

lololol It just happened now… We found 4-5 guys with catapults on ninja wall, so we helped them on building + cleaning all your 6-7 AC + Trebu + Balistas…

When wall was down we got inside cleaning the walls and some pugs went to the lord to cap, they were not following us, we were not following them.

well how does a blobb start? in most cases it s a an assembly of guilds helping each other…

We defend the the spawntower on the sfr map every night with 5 people from our guild and maybee another 3-5 randoms. Every night we see the same picture, 40+ people from one or the other enemy servers karmatraining with golems, several trebs, catpults. Every night we hold them off for over an hour. Yesterday by example it took SFR so long to take our spawntower, that they lost both their towers to baruch. From what we have experienced both servers with the higher night population avoid each other and always want our tidy lil spawntower. Well you aint gona get it for free. :-)

I mean we enjoy defending it. All I wanted to point out is, that people should not complain about other servers blobbing when they do it themselfs. And yes blobbing means several guilds joining forces to strongly outnumber their oposition.

Honestly BOOM crying about a Blobb? you guys don t do anything but blobb or lay around in downstate.

BTW here some nice screenshots of SiN with 4 other guilds running around 40ish people, I remember some of your members complaining about the certain topic :-)

IMHO You ve only got the right to complain if you don t do it yourself.

let s keep this civil, pls. XAOC, BOOM, OSC, iddq and the rest of the SFR blobbers stick together because their skill is below average. We engage them on a regular basis when they outnumber us in a ratio 1:2 or higher because I know every member of my team pulls the weight of 2 of em.
Funnyest fight I had was 4 of us against over 10 of XAOC, I think every one of us was in down state at one time, but in the end we stomped all of them and they none of us.

But I think you ll find this kind of player on every server. Kodash also got plenty of guilds who think that WvW is all about gathering 45+ ppl and tear down every tower there s on the map and leave everything undefended so they can roll over it half an hour later. @ the end of the day this ppl don t improve as players and all they got is some badges and wxp.

here s a good example and an absolutely hilarious vid about such a grp of players from abbadon:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKagej8W2UU&feature=youtu.be
You re lucky if you don t understand german… you loose brain cells for every second you listen to their TS.

yea Baruchs got some amazing soloers. I ve met today the best engi and Necro oponents of my GW2 carrer. got completely destroyed in some fights by both of em and I don t loose many duells.

Well new Match up. I m glad that SFR is getting their dream sparring partner for all the GvG. All I ask you is now, is to not whine about night capping because we all know the spanish prime time is 2-3 Hours later,then the central europeans.

I wish everyone plenty of good fights and please keep it clean :-)

Drakh.3128:

A number 3 server barely scratched out a win vs #9 and #10. Sure sounds to me like Jade was way over or Piken and Augury were under rated. Also realize that after months of stale match-ups, the top tier servers were absorbing all of the rating. It’s going to take some time to spread it back around. If a #3 server squares up against much lower servers, they should be crushing them, not just barely edging by. Seems to be working just find to me.

well unfortunately you missed the point… it s impossible to drop down a tier if the servers above you loose a huge amount of points by winning a match up.

I m actually quite jealous of Jade, that they lost so many points. We have been trying to achieve that for weeks. I agree that a top 3 server is expected to win by a larger margin, but still loosing 90k points for winning is out of any proportion.
In T2 Europe all 3 servers are trying to loose points, Desolation, because they had a mass exodus due to beeing stuck in T1. Kodash who have been stuck in T2 for over 3 months and have lost all but 1 dedicated 25 man guild and SFR who are sick of the low(+blobb) competition and want to have other opponents.
You see the logic in this? Me neither, because there is none.

So, about the random match ups, it certainly did something about a bigger variety of enemys. But it didn t solve the problem at all that servers in trouble cannot drop down tiers, and servers who are doing well cannot climb the ladder.
This Week Elona wins the match up and looses 60 000 Points. Same goes for Jade see, they win the Match up and loose a whooping 90 0000 Points. I mean seriously?

Yes maybee if they were alot superior they should have won by a higher margin. But how the hell is a server suposed to drop out of it s tier, when the server owning the tier is loosing points.

Whole servers try to not get any points, so they can drop down a tier and it takes them months to achieve this. Is it really the point of WVW to not take keeps or leave them undefended so you have a chance to drop down to the tier you belong ?
The competition is fiercer to become 3nd, then it is to become first.

well in Darkmans defence, Con are about the only guild from the match up who won t jump into a even fight. They even let our 5 man guild grps run from what I ve seen. The SFR guilds who like to tail, sucessfull roaming guilds and charge into fights when it s safe are XAOC, BOOM, OSC, iddq. From Kodash I don t know 1 guild who would not jump into an ongoing fair fight.
From Vizu I haven t seen much positive… mainly 40+ people holding hands and taking undefended T1 spawtowers with 3 golems. hilarious. When le blob is not around the map is deserted.

Darkman it s your lucky day :-) I am from Kodash, looking forward to see you there :-)

anyone else interested in some 1vs1 duels? meet at 18:00 o clock on the SFR Map. You should know where :-)

simple rules for fair fights: no stacks, bufffood erlaud.

anti blobb mechanics need to be implemented as soon as possibel into this game. People don t wvw to fight players, all they want is to farm wxp. last 12hours we ve seen plenty of vizu s glory. they bore you to death with not 1 soul on the map. but when they come, they come in bulk of 40-50 people.
I think they should implement keep taking in PVE and give Karma and wxp for it.

Jesse.1592:

is 800 healing power really that needed? I have a mix on cleric and knight accessory and cleric amulet all with valk jewel and am only at 544 healing power.

Hopefully didn’t just blow my money cause just bought my exotics and hate being ganged by kitten thieves.

current spec full knights amor with 2x superior water rune and 2 time major water rune and still trying to the monks.

all accessories with valks jewels sitting at 15,776 health
544 healing power
one rine of cleric one knight and same for earings and then cleric amulet.

I did OK in WVW before with all green knights accessories just cant kill thieves so really hoping this will help.

You don t need 800 healing power. So much healing power really shines only with Signet of Restoration. You seem to not have ascended Jewelery atm, so when you start aquiering “all stats” ascended gear your Healing power will get a good boost anyway.

In a 1vs1 800 healing power is overkill and you probably would be better off with more dmg. but when you re beeing focused by 2-5 Player it can make the difference. also remember, that not only you but your teammates will benefit from so much healing power. I also often charge in the backline of our enemys to pressure them and I will be their main Target, this gives my offensiv geared teammates the time to burst our focus targets.
To show you some numbers with 766 Healing power.
My regeneration ticks with 240 HP/ sec, soothing mist 125hp, and every spell i cast another 295 from signet of restoration. swaping into water atunement 2198 HP.
This accumulates to around 8800 HP in 10 sec without using a heal skill and you share 5700 healing with everybody close to you. Add another 2100 hp from a dodge roll in water and 2200 hp from water 5 (use it wisely) every 40 sec.

This might not seem much higher numbers then what you re seeing but it all accumulates. Elementalists are by far the best healers in game and you should take full advantage of it.

But like I said, it is a tanky build and there s plenty of room for more offensiv variations.

I play a pretty tanky Ele and I wouldn t advise on using PVT. I myself got 2 pieces gloves and boots and I m planning on replacing them by probably Knight. All Stats Jewelery is an absolute must have imo. On Armor I use a mix of Knight, cleric and PVT. I ve tried some pieces of berserker, but if you re often facing odds against you the results just aint as good.

Healing power is very important, should be somewhere between 500 – 800 depending on the heal you use. If you use signet of restoration it should be closer to 800 if you use ether renewal it can be around 600. Might stacking and Signet of Bloodlust is a must, to offset the low dmg you have. Also use offensiv bufffood, I use lvl 65 Power, prec for 7 coppers :-)

My stats with no bufffood are:
Power 1591( very low, but bufffood and bloodlust does the world for me)
Preci 1354… 25% crit chance
Toughness 1569
vit 1579
cond dmg 216
boon duration 70%
crit dmg 39%
Healing power 766

This alows you to solo roam comfortably and engage in fights against 2-3 players. Yes a bunker Guard or ranger might get away, but even with some berserker gear and 15 points in air you wont get them down in any decent ammount of time.

Thiefs are no problem with this equip and will run in frustration or die if you land churning earth.

I run from solo till grps of 5 people, we engage grps double the size of ours every day and you re a great addition to any team if you use your heals close to an ally in distress, a thing that needs to be coordinated and trained. best thing is to run with a thief or mesmer who provide the nessesary spike while you tank and keep the berserkers in your team alive.

If you can afford it, swap the 2 major runes of water (10% boon duration) for 2x divinity runes

all I see in the Video is a guardian running strait into 15-20 enemys, no dodge, just spamming 1 and if he has to use any 7-9 skills he clicks it with the mouse.

and there s some talk till your ears bleed about beeing outnumbered while he s zerging the crap out of his enemys.
If you want to see some good guard gameplay check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlOB4BZQ9wU

did I miss something?

what s the point of running 25 guild teams. sfr guilds who run on their own are 30+ during primetime. And even those are tailed often by another guild who s got 15 man. Then you ve got this low selfesteam guilds who can field 12-20 man but need to blobb. There are good fights to be had on 2 maps for guilds who run from 5 man till 25 people. I can list you over 10 guilds from Kodash who do their own thing who run in grps of 5ish and there is another handfull that run around with aprox. 15 man.
Yeah maybee they should join forces, but I also prefere to roam with 5 people who I know they can play, then running with another 5 who will pop like soap bubbles. So there comes my disbelieve that OSC and so many other good guilds really need to blobb up.

Telling yourself that you re looking for a challenge might sound good, but actually you aren t. maybe it s challenging on EB or the guild cluster map where you can fight our random blobbs. But most I see from SFR is people looking for easy wxp.
Well I do hope that with all this wvw focused guilds you re hoping to go back to tier 1. because I really doubt that you ll find many 30+guilds on piken or baruch bay.

I m sorry. All I wanted is to burst your bubble that you ve got a majority of leet players on sfr :-) Yes seems i missunderstood you. For me it sounded like, you can t fight the strongest guilds since they re on your server. You just meant because there s basicly none in T2 exept the sfr ones :-)

Well I was refering to wvw in general. I wonder how many of those 30+ primetime guilds are guards. If not 18 maybe 15 or 12? would love to get an answer to thiss…

All I m saying is that you don t improve by rubbing with a paintrain of over 30 people over guild grps of 15 or uncordinated random zergs that are spread like disease over this Server.

And from what I ve seen Deso are even less people then we.

Sevenn.3085:

Thyophelis.8035:

I have to admit that something really great is forming on sfr. all this big dedicated wvw guilds coming to one server. I just wonder, won t you miss the GvG ?

This is a genuine concern. My first words to KoA on community site were “why u transfer 3 days before our gvg was due”
We have had discussions about changing tier to provide more choice when it comes to gvg cause 1 every 2 weeks isn’t fulfilling.
Guilds move for a variety of reasons however but I am with you in the thought that I would prefer to be on the opposite server to the strongest guilds in order to have challenging gvg’s

I m sorry, I didn t say strongest… 18 guards spamming 1 and 7,8,9 isn t much about skill but the easyest with the current Meta. I ve played 3 weeks against sfr guild grps and their movement is good but skillwise…I haven t been pulled once by a greatsword skill and maybe ran into 2 hammer bubbles. I ve got no stability the whole fight.
bashing random zergs might look good on video, but as long as you re not looking for a challenge you ll not improve as players.
but props to you, your paintrains certainly got discipline and some good commanders.
I ve had plenty of 1vs 1 against Con, Iddq, Rise, ECL, OSC Thiefs, Mesmers, ele s and engi s. They are certainly better then a normal random. But 8/10 of the fights end up with me smiling.

I honestly can understand that XAOC blobbs. Just took down 10 of em with 4 man. no skill, just chickens trying to res their fallen comrades.

OSC you really want that kind of company?

I have to admit that something really great is forming on sfr. all this big dedicated wvw guilds coming to one server. I just wonder, won t you miss the GvG ?
I can understand that 2 guilds are forming together if you re facing the Kodash blobb, which is on EB and 1 other map.

On the other 2 maps you ve got plenty of kodash 5-10 man guilds running around, Bots that are around 20+ man, KILL, wdr or EOW around 15 and a random commander who s lucky to have 20 randoms folowing him for an hour. but still on this maps, OSC runs with XAOC, some iddq are also spread in there. BOOM is also always tailing another guild. From your dedicated WVW guilds only very few seem to have the selfconfidense to run in lower numbers then 35+man.
I ll admit we have ran into some guild grps from SFR. CON, ECL, VZ or so comes to mind. who are the other guilds who claim to not blobb?

Big respect to INVI, you re about the only thing that impressed me from Desolation, and maybe some solo mesmers and 1 or 2 ele s.

grats XII, ZD und to all the ones who ran with you. I m sure you enjoyed farming kodash on the sfr map. The whole night we didn t meet one deso zerg. I m sure you blobbed the crap out of them earlyer on.
Kodash ran with 25 Bots 15 WDR and a random commander of 5-10 people and for hours we tried to run separate.

tita.6358:

MagnusLL.8473:

Wolferion.4518:

Now back to awaken in the morning, see everything painted in red/blue, and have our enemies hide in their T3 keeps chock full of arrow carts until then can rush out whenever they have 3x our numbers…

OMG that looks horrible!

do they blob like this too?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYhV_P0ib_k

omg rofl, best way to represent GW2 wvw. 1 child running screaming blue moerder (on th eforums) while the 50 chickens chase him (hiding in numbers).
spot on