Guild Wars 2

As a preorder player, I would like to ask that the traits not be locked behind event completions. I just started a new Guardian, and the task of unlocking all of her traits is beyond daunting.

I can understand elite traits being locked behind tasks, but the rest of them? Leveling a new character is supposed to be fun, not a chore.

Kumouta.4985:

All these silly assumptions about making scourge the only boon corrupt spec or turning necro into condi only- no. Just rethink your build. You have new stuff to play with, too. Some of these changes like making signets of suffering much more support-y and required for keeping shroud up better don’t make sense though.
For now, just adapt. Every other thread is already telling Anet about how much “we”(not me anyway) dislike how “our” builds were all broken due to some trait changes.
Plus, vital persistence is only required if you’ve been using it your entire life and have grown way too attached too it. Most people can get in shroud, do what they want to do with shroud, and get back out when they need to. Dhuumfire and the like aren’t gone, and spectral armor & walk still keep you up- spectral grasp even gives you 100% shroud back if traited(not sure about this, i didn’t test it but it would make sense since the tooltip doesnt say that every one of the five gives you 4% lf)

My hatred of these kinds of arguments knows no bounds. Let me boil this mentality down to its bare essence:

“Just deal with the fact that your build was severely crippled without warning.”

Unacceptable. Many people — not just me — are using a Reaper Shroud build because they enjoy it and have invested a significant amount of time into acquiring gear and learning how to play the spec.

Bear in mind that this is a spec that isn’t considered to be the most powerful way to play a Necromancer. The damage output is decidedly worse than a condition build and it offers almost nothing in the way of group utility. On top of all of that, Necromancer as a class is performing worse than almost every other class in the game in terms of damage and utility.

And it’s not like this is a recent problem! The issues with Necromancers are well-known and have been discussed to death. If they were concerned about these two very necessary traits not affecting Sand Shroud they could have literally just buffed them by adding in the new effects (Swiftness on Speed of Shadows and Vitality on Vital Persistence) without changing anything else and it STILL wouldn’t have fixed the core issues that the Necromancer class faces.

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I enjoyed the Reaper Shroud build because of the visual effects and mobility. In reality it’s mostly an auto-attack spec that doesn’t even have access to utility skills most of the time.

So yes, I can “adapt”, but there is no good reason that I should have to. This was a scorched earth approach to addressing a problem that didn’t actually exist. The “solution” was not only lazy, it feels terrible.

And to top it off, there was no warning! So now I’m stuck with gear for a build that doesn’t work anymore, and my choices are to either go with a Greatsword power build that is even LESS effective than the already underperforming build that I was using yesterday or scramble to put together a set of condition gear.

I can’t even begin to describe how terrible that feels.

Jelzouki.4128:

Hi,

For those that dont know me let me attach some credibility to my name for a moment. I was on team ASAP Zerg, semi-pro esport team. Long time pvper and necro player. Just wanted to clarify that scourge is indeed too strong. The people defending it have no clue what they are saying. Im guessing they are going to nerf the burn damage. You press buttons and things just die when playing the scourge.

Let me translate:

“I know you guys have no idea who I am, but let me assure you that I’m e-famous. Nerf Scourge because people can hit buttons and kill people. I’m not going to bother to present any evidence, analysis, or reference points. K thx bye.”

Seriously, what’s even up with the nerf posts on every single board? We got to play the specs for ONE WEEKEND. Nobody has any idea what they are doing and no theorycraft or strategy has been developed around including the altered environment.

Threads like this one are why Necros can’t have nice things.

I was SUPER confused after the patch today, to the point where I had to stop, check my build, and then read the patch notes to ensure that I wasn’t just plain hallucinating.

After the changes to Soul Reaping I fall out of Shroud amazingly quickly and have to wait 10 seconds to get back into it. At first I thought that I was doing something wrong. Then I assumed that I had my build reset with the patch.

The truth is far more depressing: with the Soul Reaping traitline receiving such heavy-handed nerfs, Reaper Shroud builds just don’t function anymore. I’m much better off just picking up a Greatsword and keeping my Life Force as a fallback in case I start taking heavy damage.

I can’t properly convey my disappointment. The Reaper Shroud build is the most fun I’ve had in this game, but with the amount of time spent out of Shroud now I’m not getting enough value out of the traits dedicated to it to justify the build.

Could we just… bake in the cooldown reduction from Speed of Shadows and reduced Life Force decay from Vital Persistence to the baseline Shroud? It’s not like the reduced cooldown and decay rate made Shroud overpowered; in fact, it was the bare minimum necessary to be able to use Shroud for anything other than an emergency lifebar.

Please ArenaNet… you’re breaking my heart!

I posted this in another thread, but it bears repeating, and I’ll probably be doing so a lot:

NEWS FLASH: If you stand next to a Necro and their Sand Shades while they are in Sand Shroud, you’re going to get stacked up with conditions. You better either have Resistance or get away from them for the duration.

The only reason Scourge seems powerful is because people don’t understand what they are doing right now. It’s not as obvious as swinging a sword or turning into some shadowy raven creature with a big scythe.

The burst condition output is actually worse than a condi Reaper running Shouts, who could quickly stack up Bleed on you while covering it with spammed Chill, Vulnerability, Burning, and Blind on top of having about 28k health and a 23k Shroud bar that builds up REALLY quickly. You couldn’t easily step into melee range with something like that either, but they aren’t exactly regarded as the kings of PvP because they, like Scourge, are easy to shut down.

Here’s a hint: the same tactics that worked against Condi Reaper work against Scourge.

The reasons that all Scourge Life Force abilities trigger Dhuumfire is because the trait would be utterly useless if you could only get a single stack of burning when you used an ability with 3 ammo charges and a 15-second recharge.

Let’s be honest, guys:

This material is required in significant quantities, just like many other crafting materials, but the rarity of it is immense.

There’s no good reason for this. All materials should be (roughly) the same in difficulty to acquire.

It seems like an oversight that there aren’t nodes where you can harvest materials to make cloth scraps (i.e. plant fibers) and leather sections (i.e. animal bodies) like so many other MMOs.

Jelzouki.4128:

Tiresias.6473:

Jelzouki.4128:

Hi,

For those that dont know me let me attach some credibility to my name for a moment. I was on team ASAP Zerg, semi-pro esport team. Long time pvper and necro player. Just wanted to clarify that scourge is indeed too strong. The people defending it have no clue what they are saying. Im guessing they are going to nerf the burn damage. You press buttons and things just die when playing the scourge.

Let me translate:

“I know you guys have no idea who I am, but let me assure you that I’m e-famous. Nerf Scourge because people can hit buttons and kill people. I’m not going to bother to present any evidence, analysis, or reference points. K thx bye.”

Seriously, what’s even up with the nerf posts on every single board? We got to play the specs for ONE WEEKEND. Nobody has any idea what they are doing and no theorycraft or strategy has been developed around including the altered environment.

Threads like this one are why Necros can’t have nice things.

I think you’re deluded. All I was doing is reassuring readers that I am not an inexperienced necro player.

And what I said was all the evidence I needed. I built a condition build that absolutely melts people if you just mash your shroud bar. Threads like these come up after beta weekends to give feedback to the devs. Post like yours are what cause flaming and cause threads to derail because of your kittened comment.

No. No no no no no. Nope. Nuuuuuuuuuu.

You don’t get to do this. You don’t get to turn this back on me. Not a chance.

Read your original post. You claim to be “someone of note” than make a no-evidence, no-reference claim.

That’s actually a formal debate fallacy referred to as an “Argument From Authority”, where someone claims to be an expert on a matter (with no proof of credentials) and then makes a claim (with no evidence or reference to support it), refusing to follow through on the argument.

You even took it to the next level with ANOTHER logical fallacy: circular reasoning. Specifically “And what I said was all the evidence I needed.” In other words, the “what I said is true because I said it” argument.

That’s not going to fly here. This isn’t the World of Warcraft forums. You’ll find a higher bar to clear here.

Go look at some of the threads that ACTUALLY provide feedback, some of which even have gameplay and analysis videos attached. At a minimum, the threat starters are talking in very specific terms about what is good and bad about Scourge, including an analysis of where there are potential pivot points to alter the class if necessary.

Look, I’m sure you’re a great guy. You might even be modestly well-known in your social circles. But your argument is crap, so people are going to call you out on it.

YOU made the claim. YOU provide the evidence. That’s how it works.

Nobody here is just going to take your word for it.

You know what, guys? The balance in GW2 is actually pretty decent overall.

Not that MMO players are ever happy.

Cats meow. Cows moo. MMO players shout “The game is unbalanced!”

Part of the problem is people use their DPS meters to determine the maximum theoretical damage output of each class and expect those numbers under the duress of real-world scenarios.

Reality check: not gonna happen consistently, if at all.

Also, these same tunnel-visioned people fail to account for anything BUT DPS, such as a Chronomancer keeping Alacrity running even while everyone is running around like headless chickens, or the tough-as-nails Necromancer soloing down adds so the group can stay focused on a boss.

This game does much better for balance than most MMOs, despite the fact that all of the classes have unique mechanics.

When Reaper was originally revealed, the developers spoke about trying to design a “movie monster”, like the bad guys from campy 80’s horror movies: slow moving but relentless, brutal and hard to escape once it catches up to you. It’s a wonderful theme that didn’t really pan out.

There’s no reason we can’t get to that point, though. Reaper should be a spec that you do not want to stay in melee range with unless you’re specifically designed to handle large spikes of damage, significant debuffs, and powerful crowd control.

The spec should focus on a few advantages:
1. Slow, heavy-hitting attacks that have high innate critical hit rate and cause Vulnerability (or other advantages beyond just damage).
2. Control through Chill and Fear.
3. Self-defense through damage reduction and Stability.

The spec should also have a few glaring disadvantages:
1. Low access to mobility and Vigor.
2. Talents that don’t work at range.
3. No support for damaging conditions or self-boons (beyond Stability).
4. Low group utility.

There should also be a heavy focus on the greatsword and Reaper’s Shroud as the ideal way to play the spec.

We have some of this already, but the themes need to be strengthened.

I’m not going to go into many specific changes, but I’m going to present a few criticisms about the spec as it stands:

The power damage on both greatsword and Reaper Shroud is sub-par.
The Reaper spec gives up a lot of utility, both for a group and for itself, and gets very little in return. Part of this is because of the long cast time on abilities, which aren’t counterbalanced very well in terms of damage or debuffs.

The low mobility on Reaper is not balanced by being difficult to control or innately tough.
For reasons that are not well-understood, the Necromancer in general has never had good access to stability, protection, stun breaks, and other similar effects that make a character tough. One would think that poor access to evasive abilities, Vigor, swiftness, teleports, etc. would be balanced by the capacity to absorb large amounts of damage, but that isn’t the case.
I believe that there is a misconception that Shroud is a powerful defense mechanism, but that’s really only the case in the most basic of PvE encounters. Having extra health is only of use if you can escape from the source of overwhelming damage.

Poor group utility requires compensation for the spec to be useful.
This is a tough one. Reaper is a spec that, in a power setup, outputs damage similar to a condi Chronomancer, but the Chronomancer dramatically increases the group’s damage and utility at the same time.
I’m not sure what to do here. Perhaps the right answer is to just give Reaper some decent group utility.

I understand that the condition damage build is going away from Reaper so that it doesn’t tread on Scourge territory, but if nothing else is altered then Reaper will be a build that does middling damage with no group utility and poor self-defense.

No, I don’t feel that way at all. I enjoy the game greatly, and haven’t spent a dime of cash since making the initial purchase.

If you don’t enjoy the game, you don’t have to play it. Not every game will be enjoyed by every person.

Sabre.8627:

insaneseagull.7063:

Mikali.9651:

for the first time in 5 years, I will main Necro and I will get to Legendary rank as the worst PvP player you have ever seen while barely doing anything. Maybe I will even eat sandwich while fighting people

Yeah, at its current state it is very OP, so OP that it makes me main it even tho I never ever wanted to play Necro. But you got me, I would be crazy not to play it

#Scourge – HowToGetNecroMains101

It’s op if you’ve got no condi clears or transfers.

That’s about it. If a player is smart he’ll use those two tools against the scourge.

Let’s be real, it’s pretty kitten tough for any current class to deal with all the condi scourge puts out. Doesn’t help that we have 5+ different ways to corrupt resistance and any other boon to cover our torments and burns.

On the flip side, scourge deals with condi extremely well. we have an instant cast f2 that clears 2 or 3 condis every 4 sec. An F skill, that requires no traits or utility sacrifice, cannot be interrupted or stopped. If that isn’t enough, we can just send all of them back with staff or plague signet. And if that fails we have 25k+ health to soak it up until our f2 comes back. Scourge really feels nearly unkillable vs other condi builds, I like that necro is the king of conditions but it seriously needs to be toned down.

Of all the ways I could describe a Scourge, “unkillable” is not an adjective I would use.

Have you not encountered a decent Deadeye yet?

Obtena.7952:

What I find wrong is that you are making irrelevant comparisons; thief dagger skills are only relevant to thieves and has no bearing on what necro skills are. There are many reasons Anet provided thieves with this and not necros … and we don’t know them. Do not presume that there is precedent set here.

That still doesn’t change what I’ve said … Anet has implemented weapon swapping to allow us access to different weapon advantages on the same build. Not being able to do something because of the limits of gear is not some exceptional problem on necros that needs to be addressed .. it’s the game design intention and it’s applicable to all classes. Ignoring that will not make a high life force, condi weapon any more reasonable of a request.

I’m not sure what your stake in this fight is, but your approach is short-sighted. I’m not even sure how much you play a Necro, given your comments.

Here, I’ll break it down for you:

Necro melee weapons have high life force generation, which makes them an excellent way to power Shroud abilities (be that Life Shroud, Reaper Shroud, or Sand Shroud). However, they are entirely power-based at the moment, and even then if you aren’t a Reaper you have ONE choice of melee weapon (the dagger). There is a surprising dearth of options.

Necro ranged weapons are a much more balanced affair, with scepter focused on conditions, axe focused on power, and staff focused on hybrid utility (the overall damage on staff is very low). However, the life force generation of all of these weapons is poor overall, with Staff being the highest assuming there are groups of enemies to fire into.

So, given that we have Reaper for power builds — and it really doesn’t make sense to run a power build that doesn’t include Reaper and use a greatsword — having a melee condition damage weapon that ideally is baseline would provide Necromancers with more options and flexibility — two things that Necros lack in general at the moment.

In a lot of ways the dagger would make the most sense as it’s a condition weapon on many other classes, but a mace would be an interesting option as well.

There’s nothing unreasonable about the request. There is something suspicious about your staunch opposition of the notion, though.

The problem with Death Magic is that minions need a rework. Right now, the only minion that feels good is the Blood Field, in that it has a clear and unique purpose. The other minions are just passive damage with a weak on-use effect.

I’ve always believed that they made a mistake making minions a permanent summon; they should work more like they did in GW1 with steadily degenerating health but very powerful effects and solid damage. The shout ability “Rise!” is much closer to how minions should function.

NEWS FLASH: If you stand next to a Necro and their Sand Shades while they are in Sand Shroud, you’re going to get stacked up with conditions. You better either have Resistance or get away from them for the duration.

The only reason Scourge seems powerful is because people don’t understand what they are doing right now. It’s not as obvious as swinging a sword or turning into some shadowy raven creature with a big scythe.

The burst condition output is actually worse than a condi Reaper running Shouts, who could quickly stack up Bleed on you while covering it with spammed Chill, Vulnerability, Burning, and Blind on top of having about 28k health and a 23k Shroud bar that builds up REALLY quickly. You couldn’t easily step into melee range with something like that either, but they aren’t exactly regarded as the kings of PvP because they, like Shroud, are easy to shut down.

Here’s a hint: the same tactics that worked against Condi Reaper work against Scourge.

The spec is clunky and is more of a burden on the Mesmer than the enemy.

It’s also worse than Chronomancer in almost every way.

Maxzero.4032:

There should be a penalty for standing in multiple stationary shades. Just like there is if you face tank 100B or Maul.

If people can’t move out of multiple overlapping stationary flashing neon lights then I have no problem with them dying and doing so quickly.

Area denial without punishment is not any denial at all.

P R E A C H

philheat.3956:

So, we know stealth is op in this game and there is no counter to stealth…

This is an opinion, not something we “all know”.

Also, the two classes with ready access to the stealth mechanic (Thieves and Mesmers) rely on that mechanic as their primary defense mechanism. What is your proposal to maintain the viability of these two classes in large-scale PvP if we start weakening this essential class mechanic?

You are the second idi… person to say this. I’ve already replied to your kind once and I can’t be bothered to come up with something significantly different to say, so I’ll say the exact same thing again:

My hatred of these kinds of arguments knows no bounds. Let me boil this mentality down to its bare essence:

“Just deal with the fact that your build was severely crippled without warning.”

Unacceptable. Many people — not just me — are using a Reaper Shroud build because they enjoy it and have invested a significant amount of time into acquiring gear and learning how to play the spec.

Bear in mind that this is a spec that isn’t considered to be the most powerful way to play a Necromancer. The damage output is decidedly worse than a condition build and it offers almost nothing in the way of group utility. On top of all of that, Necromancer as a class is performing worse than almost every other class in the game in terms of damage and utility.

And it’s not like this is a recent problem! The issues with Necromancers are well-known and have been discussed to death. If they were concerned about these two very necessary traits not affecting Sand Shroud they could have literally just buffed them by adding in the new effects (Swiftness on Speed of Shadows and Vitality on Vital Persistence) without changing anything else and it STILL wouldn’t have fixed the core issues that the Necromancer class faces.

I can’t speak for anyone else, but I enjoyed the Reaper Shroud build because of the visual effects and mobility. In reality it’s mostly an auto-attack spec that doesn’t even have access to utility skills most of the time.

So yes, I can “adapt”, but there is no good reason that I should have to. This was a scorched earth approach to addressing a problem that didn’t actually exist. The “solution” was not only lazy, it feels terrible.

And to top it off, there was no warning! So now I’m stuck with gear for a build that doesn’t work anymore, and my choices are to either go with a Greatsword power build that is even LESS effective than the already underperforming build that I was using yesterday or scramble to put together a set of condition gear.

I can’t even begin to describe how terrible that feels.

Small update for modern times:

No, a 25% reduction in Lifeforce decay will not account for the loss of the 50% reduction in decay and 7s cooldown. There is still no reason to take the Soul Reaping traitline now and the Reaper Shroud builds are still suffering under heavy-handed nerfs.

Alright, it’s not really gamebreaking… Then again, it might be to some people, like me!

Obviously this non-issue “issue” has been around since the beginning of the game, but instead of just complaining, I’d like to propose two possible solutions:

1. Allow a stowed shield to be hidden, like how the helm, gloves, and shoulders can be. This could cause a problem in PvP, but then again it’s nearly impossible to tell what weapons someone is using from a distance.

2. Have the shield never stow. It would be permanently attached to the arm, which is how it was actually carried by knights when it wasn’t mounted to their steed.

Frankly, I think that second option would look AMAZING, but I do realize that it could cause problems with idle animations that make use of the left hand. Also, I guess it would have to magically disappear during some emotes, like dancing.

Nevertheless, I’d love to be rid of the distraction of my angel wings appearing and disappearing whenever my shield is stowed.

I know this is a super-minor issue, but one of the things that I really love about GW2 is how much focus and effort is put into the user interface and user experience of the game. Seriously, the UI/UX team at ArenaNet really takes the cake. This may actually be part of the problem, since I really don’t have much of anything else to complain about when it comes to UI/UX!

Anyway, thanks for your consideration! I’m really looking forward to the next expansion, as are many of my friends. I have very fond memories of the Nightfall expansion and can’t wait to head back to Elona.

What you call “grind” is actually called “playing the game”.

Have you noticed that?

The reason it is a “grind” to you is because you are reward-focused from years of playing MMOs that have distilled boring activities into loot pinatas — you go out and do “this” activity to get “that” loot or you cannot do anything else because of “gear checks”.

GW2 is not that kind of game. Upgrades are extremely minor and you can do whatever you feel like doing at the moment and typically work towards multiple ends at the same time.

Of course, if you aren’t enjoying the game you can just take a break. It’s not like it has a subscription, after all. You should not expect any single game to consume every single waking minute of your life.

Ramoth.9064:

Learning how to play the spec? pressing F1 then wailing on 1 is hard? For some reason people who play power reapers exclusively seem to be on some high horse thinking condi is easier to play. I have both sets of gear btw. And since you are talking about collecting gear Ill have to assume you’re talking PVE. Condi rotations are definitely harder to play to reach optimal DPS. and this is PVE we’re talking about, where things die left right and center, you have no NEED for actual life force management. YOu can be wailing on 3 things with RS1, getting 6% back in 2.37 seconds.

Most of you people crying about VP haven’t even done the maths or actually considered in a realistic scenario. You have people like DeceiverX saying shroud runs out in 10 seconds on a full bar, with no damage taken. No. No it doesn’t. If you get focused in pvp, VP won’t save you. If you’re kittening about the duration loss from VP then you’re camping shroud. its as simple as that.

That’s an awful lot of projection, assumptions, and strawman arguments to pack into a single post. Even your lead argument (“For some reason people who play power reapers exclusively seem to be on some high horse thinking condi is easier to play.”) is some wild speculation that I never even hinted towards at any time in any post that I’ve ever made on these forums… ever.

What, exactly, is wrong with you? Can’t stand for people to play the game in a manner that is different from your own? Don’t like to see other people have nice things? Believe that it’s your way or the highway?

I mean, Reaper Shroud is a build that received ZERO attention, despite all its flaws and middling damage, until it was heavily nerfed two days ago. I struggled to find even a single recent thread about it.

Then the spec take a MASSIVE hit directly to the broadside and people like you come out of the woodwork with half-baked “opinions” about all this stuff that isn’t even relevant. Seriously — Lifeforce management? Reaper Shroud doesn’t manage Lifeforce in PvE; the very purpose of the build is to spend as much time in Shroud as possible and as little time out of it as manageable, beyond perhaps firing off utility skills.

Of course, you likely don’t know that because you’ve never really played the build. In other words, you’re just talking out your cornhole.

Oh for the love of pie…

Listen, if you don’t like the game just stop playing it.

If you do like the game but are endlessly frustrated by some problem or another then either take a break for a while or do something else in-game.

Seriously, this expectation that the developers of the game are going to answer to YOU PERSONALLY is just insane. Step back and get some perspective: it’s a GAME.

Your giving them money for the game entitles you to log into the servers and play — nothing more or less. You aren’t “owed” anything from anyone at ArenaNet beyond this basic agreement.

Conjured weapons should be the “weapon swap” for the Elementalist. You should get access to all of them except the Elite (greatsword) as soon as you get your weapon swap slot open. You would get to pick one for your slot and you could change it any time you are not in combat just like your regular off-hand weapon (it would function like a pop-up slot for your utility skills). Upon reaching level 30 you would get access to the Flaming Greatsword as well, but setting it as your swap would consume your Elite as well.

This would solve the huge problem that Elementalists have with being range-locked. If you are using a staff you could keep the shield or hammer on the “swap” for when people close with you. If you are using double-daggers you could keep the bow on a swap for instances where staying at long range makes more sense.

And you don’t have the situation where providing a swap gives the Elementalist 16 more cooldown-oriented skills to use.

Yes, yes… this means that you wouldn’t be able to throw out these weapons for your teammates to use. Additionally, the damage of the skills may have to be tuned since they don’t currently scale with stats but would if you make them swaps.

Obtena.7952:

Tiresias.6473:

Obtena.7952:

So … Scepter is NOT useful for PVE rotations? I mean, there are lots of things this imaginary condi weapon COULD be, I’m asking what is driving the need or even the desire for it. most importantly, what would make anyone want to use it considering how good the scepter is at condi now.

Please don’t be obtuse.

Melee weapons build lifeforce faster. They typically build lifeforce on every strike including a big gain on the final hit.

Scepter build lifeforce VERY slowly in comparison to the dagger and greatsword.

It’s not being obtuse … if I’m playing condi, then I don’t care if power weapons do more DPS OR build more life force … otherwise I would choose those weapons to play with Scourge and take advantage of shades more.

I think the obtuse thing here is thinking there shouldn’t be meaningful choices to make when making a build. I mean …. don’t tell me you don’t understand how unbelievably good a condition weapon with high life force regen would be with the Scourge spec.

I’m not sure about “unbelievable”. It would probably just make it “decent”.

Do you have any idea how dangerous it is to step into melee range as a Scourge? You don’t have Shroud to defend yourself with, and the barriers melt quickly even if they aren’t touched.

After the Elite utility skill, there should be another 25-point unlock that gives you the ability to use the weapon even when not using that elite spec.

Genesis.5169:

I disagree engineers sourly needed a spec that wasn’t kit reliant, they finally get one everyone gets salty. Not an engineer player either.

I say leave them be and buff the other specs to there relative level.

He means the effects are too visually noisy and distracting. Which they are.

That’s not salt.

Crinn.7864:

Tiresias.6473:

Once people figure out how to deal with a Scourge you won’t find them to be quite as strong, I think.

Scourge will still be bonkers strong when paired with a support tempest, but beyond that I don’t see it being a solo-queue thing for long.

That’s fair. There are a lot of classes that have synergies with other classes and make good 2-man teams or small squads.

Still, once Sand Shroud is down there is no reason to not tunnel vision the Scourge. Normally you would leave the Necro until last if they were in a group with targets that don’t have two lifebars, but with no Shroud to protect them and the relatively weak state of barriers the Scourge is a good first target to go for.

I can’t help but think that brawler Reaper is still the better PvP build, at least for small groups.

To be honest, given the way the content in this game works there really is no reason to not bring any class. All you need is a player who understands the mechanics and is willing to run an optimal spec for the content.

This Fractal “speed clearing” guild is pretty ridiculous if they really don’t accept Necromancers. The time-to-kill goes up by perhaps a few seconds if they really are downing the Fractal at warp speed, and unless there is some competitive speedunning for Fractals that I don’t know about that time differential isn’t going to matter.

Necros have problems. I mean, they have A LOT of problems. But none of those problems should lock the class out of raids and Fractals.

Ramoth.9064:

I think the clunkiest thing about F1 is the name.

And correct me if I’m wrong, but the name implies that you are summoning the sand shade. Which you are, of course. But the functionality of the skill itself is that you are doing an area attack. Essentially everytime you use F2-F5, you are also casting an area attack centered around you and your shades. What you aren’t doing everytime, is summoning a new shade.

You are correct. But it is also quite obvious that the skill is working as intended even if the wording on the trait itself is off.

It seems to me that what needs to be corrected is the wording of the trait, since the current implementation of Dhuumfire for Scourge is the way it should work to keep the trait worthwhile.

JoxerNL.3752:

douceline.2741:

So any Germans, for example, who want to game with both German and English-speaking people are SOL, basically?

Think it’s save to say these germans can speak english then, no?

I think it’s SAFE to say that you cannot speak English that well yourself.

Thus, why get angry when someone else decides to converse in their native language?

EU stands for EUROPEAN Union. There are many countries in the EUROPEAN Union that have English as a secondary language.

The falsely privileged mindset of many English speakers embarrasses us as a whole.

Sabre.8627:

Tiresias.6473:

Sabre.8627:

insaneseagull.7063:

Mikali.9651:

for the first time in 5 years, I will main Necro and I will get to Legendary rank as the worst PvP player you have ever seen while barely doing anything. Maybe I will even eat sandwich while fighting people

Yeah, at its current state it is very OP, so OP that it makes me main it even tho I never ever wanted to play Necro. But you got me, I would be crazy not to play it

#Scourge – HowToGetNecroMains101

It’s op if you’ve got no condi clears or transfers.

That’s about it. If a player is smart he’ll use those two tools against the scourge.

Let’s be real, it’s pretty kitten tough for any current class to deal with all the condi scourge puts out. Doesn’t help that we have 5+ different ways to corrupt resistance and any other boon to cover our torments and burns.

On the flip side, scourge deals with condi extremely well. we have an instant cast f2 that clears 2 or 3 condis every 4 sec. An F skill, that requires no traits or utility sacrifice, cannot be interrupted or stopped. If that isn’t enough, we can just send all of them back with staff or plague signet. And if that fails we have 25k+ health to soak it up until our f2 comes back. Scourge really feels nearly unkillable vs other condi builds, I like that necro is the king of conditions but it seriously needs to be toned down.

Of all the ways I could describe a Scourge, “unkillable” is not an adjective I would use.

Have you not encountered a decent Deadeye yet?

Just to be clear I was strictly talking condi builds. Power is a whole other story and power/ranged dps is the clear counter to scourge.

Does it not make sense in many ways that a Necromancer would have a very strong condition-based build?

Again, this is a build that folds really hard to anything that can attack it with power-based attacks, even from melee range (back out during Sand Shroud).

My power-based Reaper build was just tearing through Scourges (and Deadeyes, and Mirages). Check this out: I was using a minion build — the one that shunts conditions off to your minions, who then put the conditions on the targets they are attacking.

A Firebrand killed himself with his own burning. It was comical.

Are you asking me if I enjoy the game?

Yes, I enjoy the game. It has a permanent place on my hard drive, even if I don’t log in every single day; there are other games that need playing too, after all.

I can’t imagine why anyone would be here if they didn’t enjoy playing the game.

There is no shame in deciding that you do not enjoy a game and would rather continue playing one that you are more familiar with.

Because I like GW2 and I’m going to play the expansion.

I mean… it’s an MMO. If you want to keep playing the game it’s typical to get the expansion so you can enjoy the new content.

Zoltreez.6435:

Tiresias.6473:

Lily.1935:

Ramoth.9064:

I think having no stability is valid. I’m glad as a scourge it’s finally very deadly to be in melee against. If scourge had a lot of stability it could be too op. It’s very easy to put on conditions while running around. I think barrier is very strong when used properly.

I think once people start to learn what’s good in the new meta, scourge, in spite of how powerful it seems now, will begin to suffer greatly in the new meta without stability.

Which is REALLY odd, given that the class lacks mobility, speed, and teleport effects and counts on being able to tank damage and otherwise “be tough”.

and Immunes and Blocks and evades….

so bassicaly a necro lacks in everything….

I understand not having immunities, blocks, evades, and even vigor. The idea is to “tank” the damage.

But that would mean that Necro should have access to:

Weakness
Protection
Retribution
Stability

And talents that straight increase your toughness and vitality in ways that can’t be removed.

It’s worth noting that Guardian — the polar opposite of Necro in theme but not playstyle — work this way, but they can ALSO give those beneficial boons to their allies. I would understand if Necros were selfish with their buffs in return for parceling out debilitating conditions (Weakness, Chill, Blind), but they need ACCESS to the buffs to begin with.

While I don’t necessarily disagree with you, I also don’t see them spending any development time on this issue.

Ramoth.9064:

Sarrs.4831:

Tiresias.6473:

I mean, Reaper Shroud is a build that received ZERO attention, despite all its flaws and middling damage, until it was heavily nerfed two days ago. I struggled to find even a single recent thread about it.

I don’t understand why ANet should stress about keeping a build that isn’t very good intact.

THIS. Camping shroud does less DPS than dagger auto iirc. People are deluding themselves that you should be staying in shroud for as long as possible aside from the fact that it is aesthetically pleasing. Practicality wise its a stupid crutch.

Hey, that’s a FANTASTIC POINT about the damage being low. Lower than Dagger auto-attack even.

Since the changes were made to promote, in ArenaNet’s own words, “Build diversity”, I think they should put some time and attention into Reaper Shroud — you know: the big, shiny, new attraction for Heart of Thorns — to make the Shroud-focused build competitive with other power builds.

In the name of Build diversity, of course.

Then it would be more than just aesthetically pleasing; it would be yet another diverse build that Necromancers could use in all aspects of the game. No more delusions, no more low damage, more diversity!

Fantastic suggestion, guys. Brilliant!

Kyumy.5370:

Crinn.7864:

Tiresias.6473:

Once people figure out how to deal with a Scourge you won’t find them to be quite as strong, I think.

Scourge will still be bonkers strong when paired with a support tempest, but beyond that I don’t see it being a solo-queue thing for long.

You probably noticed that, but I thought it could also be really good with renegade. Each time a warband member disapear, it gives life force to necros. Could be a nice synergy too !

I hadn’t noticed that! It may be a general lack of Renegades running around in WvW right now. Seriously, they are practically unicorns.

It may be a bug. I know some widgets “die” when they unsummon, and they aren’t intended to give life force when they do (like Necro minions dying… even though they used to). But if it works for now I’ll take it!

I still feel LUDICROUSLY vulnerable in PvP. The lack of mobility may have something to do with it. It might get better if they fix the teleport (they may have already; I haven’t done any WvW in hours).

People who are offended by the mere sight of a foreign language are closed-minded bigots.

If the people are spamming you can blacklist them; otherwise you can just deal.

It’s not like there are a certain number of bits and bytes on the internet available to everyone and these people are taking them up. There is room here for all of us in this globalized culture.

Build a bridge and get over your bigotry.

While it’s true that ArenaNet has let Necros linger far too long with mediocre damage and absurdly low group utility, the response to the Reddit thread was simply an ArenaNet employee thanking someone for putting together a guide about how to clear fractals quickly.

Taking the intent of the dev’s comment out of context doesn’t advance the Necro cause any. In fact, it works against it.

Define “rewarding”.

The reward in this game is in the gameplay. If you don’t like the game, adding in carrots and sticks won’t change that.

Oh my. I don’t think I’ve ever seen such a terrible use of statistics or math to support an argument outside of a political campaign.

The forum users, a vocal group, are still a minority of the playerbase.

What’s more: people who are satisfied rarely post to the forums. They are too busy playing the game, and it’s human nature to not give much feedback for a product that you are satisfied with. I always make a point of letting the floor manager know when my wait staff at a restaurant that I am eating at does a great job; I frequently hear that such feedback is rare and greatly appreciated.

As for me, I’m very satisfied with GW2. I like the concept of Ascended gear, though I recognize that the implementation needs work; but then again, so does ArenaNet. I enjoy the leveling process and don’t stress when I’m in a lightly-populated zone and cannot complete a group event because there are so many other Dynamic Events out there. I think the classes all play pretty well but recognize that there is room for improvement.

I’ve mentioned things like this a few times, but I’ve been largely shouted down by angry, disgruntled people who should probably move on to a different game. I have had constructive discussions with rational people who enjoy the game and want to see it succeed but disagree with design decisions; however, these kinds of interactions are not the norm.

As a result, I post increasingly less frequently. I would be concerned, but to be honest it seems like all MMO communities are like this. Even WoW — an incredibly successful MMO with a mind-bogglingly large player base that obviously enjoys the game — has forums that are rife with little but complaints and anger.

Lily.1935:

Ramoth.9064:

I think having no stability is valid. I’m glad as a scourge it’s finally very deadly to be in melee against. If scourge had a lot of stability it could be too op. It’s very easy to put on conditions while running around. I think barrier is very strong when used properly.

I think once people start to learn what’s good in the new meta, scourge, in spite of how powerful it seems now, will begin to suffer greatly in the new meta without stability.

“Suffering because of lack of stability” has long been the problem with Necromancers.

Which is REALLY odd, given that the class lacks mobility, speed, and teleport effects and counts on being able to tank damage and otherwise “be tough”.

I usually load my utility skills up with stun breaks when I WvW to compensate in some small way for the lack of stability.

Ramoth.9064:

Scourge is ridiculously strong in melee in pvp.

Only because people don’t know that you can’t stand next to one while Sand Shroud is up due to the rapid condition stacking and barrier.

If you bait that out then back away (it’s not like Scourge has a lot of chase potential) then you have plenty of time to jump back in and burst them down.

Once people figure out how to deal with a Scourge you won’t find them to be quite as strong, I think.

I’m sure I’m only reiterating some things that have already been said, but:

Rangers: something needs to be done about their pets. Honestly, I’m not sure why MMOs still include pet classes as I’m hard-pressed to think of a single one that gets it right. SWTOR comes the closest with companions, and even they still bug out a TON.

Necromancers: Utility and healing skills being locked during Death Shroud really dampens the power of an otherwise excellent design. Given their almost complete lack of mobility options and access to the Vitality boon, it is reasonable to believe that DS would act as a cover to allow the Necro to regain health. At a minimum, there is no good reason for locking out the four utility slots.

Warriors: they simply don’t have enough disadvantages to compensate for their advantages. They are not the best at anything, but they are excellent at almost everything (they can’t remove boons). These advantages combined with the strongest baseline survivability in the game (high health, high armor) makes them exceptionally frustrating to play against — even when you are playing a Warrior yourself.

No, they do not.

The list of boons and conditions are very limited and very specific. You can find more information on the Wiki by reading the page under combat mechanics that pertain to them.