Guild Wars 2

Building a tank Necromancer in PvE? No. Building a tank Necromancer in WvW? Yes.

Hey all,

My friend and I have been gaming sPvP pretty hard lately, trying out different classes and builds and learning as much as we can about the meta. We’re still pretty new but we aren’t complete rubbish and we are looking for a team that would be willing to pick up two new players and show us the ropes per say. Send me a message in game if you are willing to give us a shot!

Thanks!

Andrew Clear.1750:

Too Frisky.9165:

Andrew Clear.1750:

Comprissent.3856:

Too Frisky.9165:

Say what you will about SBI but we have been and will always be a class act and here of late it’s been nice to see that in Fort Aspenwood as well. I wish I could say the same for Maguuma but your PvF is horrendous and your kitten in game is even worse. You can say PPT isn’t important and that is fine and all but we’re wiping larger zergs and winning important fights routinely.

On a side note my favorite fight this week had to have been last nights SM double team from FA and Mag where it took about 80 or so players 15 minutes to get about 25 SBI out of lords room. Even more humorous was that we revived the lord about 4 times lol.

larger zergs

Every SBI zerg has been larger than anything mag sized, minus k trains. There’s no way you actually think you’re right, is there?

You must not be participating in the same match up as the rest of us are. There have been plenty of times when mag had a bigger zerg than us, and even when they had a bigger zerg than FA.

Don’t be ashamed to admit that you have a good WvW population. EVERY SERVER ZERGS. It is WvW, not sPvP. You play WvW for the large battles, and you can’t have large battles without zergs.

I poked my head in on that fight last night, before heading back to Mag BL. Yeah, SBI was severely outmanned, and it did take awhile for SM to fall. Too bad I was too busy doing a failed attempt on your garrison, cause that SM fight was probably epic.

I don’t ever recall saying SBI didn’t zerg. EVERY server has a zerg and EVERY server says the enemy team always has larger zergs. It’s just an argument about how has the biggest kitten. All I was saying is that I enjoyed that large fight no matter how severely outnumbered we were. I don’t care if Mag runs a 60 man pain train because SBI has one as well I just find it annoying that Mag has to constantly point out that we zerg too much when in reality they do the EXACT same thing.

I was pointing that out to Comprissent as well. Although, Comprissent swears that MAG only has 20 man zergs, even though I have seen larger.

Haha you replied before I got the chance to delete that post. I realized after the fact that you were not talking to me. I didn’t see his reply for some reason!

Andrew Clear.1750:

Comprissent.3856:

Too Frisky.9165:

Say what you will about SBI but we have been and will always be a class act and here of late it’s been nice to see that in Fort Aspenwood as well. I wish I could say the same for Maguuma but your PvF is horrendous and your kitten in game is even worse. You can say PPT isn’t important and that is fine and all but we’re wiping larger zergs and winning important fights routinely.

On a side note my favorite fight this week had to have been last nights SM double team from FA and Mag where it took about 80 or so players 15 minutes to get about 25 SBI out of lords room. Even more humorous was that we revived the lord about 4 times lol.

larger zergs

Every SBI zerg has been larger than anything mag sized, minus k trains. There’s no way you actually think you’re right, is there?

You must not be participating in the same match up as the rest of us are. There have been plenty of times when mag had a bigger zerg than us, and even when they had a bigger zerg than FA.

Don’t be ashamed to admit that you have a good WvW population. EVERY SERVER ZERGS. It is WvW, not sPvP. You play WvW for the large battles, and you can’t have large battles without zergs.

I poked my head in on that fight last night, before heading back to Mag BL. Yeah, SBI was severely outmanned, and it did take awhile for SM to fall. Too bad I was too busy doing a failed attempt on your garrison, cause that SM fight was probably epic.

So far from what I can tell on the forums anyways is that the Maguuma forum goers here have it in their head that they are constantly outnumbered and run WvW with about 30 players at any given time and wipe every larger SBI zerg they come by. Were that the case SBI would be getting blown out of the water. So either Maguuma is kitten us and deciding not to take keeps and such out of common courtesy or they are simply full of themselves.

Every server in this match up has multiple zergs of comparable size but different commanders garner the attention of different groups, so, naturally there will be differences in the sizes of each zerg on the map for each server. Maguuma has had larger zergs than SBI/FA and SBI has had larger zergs than Maguuma/FA which is precisely why this match up is so close. I think everyone needs to put away the ruler, quit arguing about who has a larger kitten, and enjoy the fact that this has been a great match up and that every side has had some awesome fights.

deathTouch.9706:

I think some clans started to get a taste of gold and thought it wouldn’t be as easy as they thought compared to when they were facing mid silver opponents.

I mean we already know most people on SBI don’t really have any loyalty to the server, and SBI as a community obviously doesn’t really care either. They’ve been trying for months to recall clans that originally bandwagoned off to other servers during SBI’s first major exodus. Talk about whoring yourself out for short-term PPT.

Now SBI has a bunch of clans that can’t come close to pulling their weight and are hitting a brick wall of skill in the form of FA and Mag despite their superior numbers. They’ll jump ship soon enough.

Biggest difference between Mag and SBI: If a clan leaves Mag to bandwagon onto another server we’ll tell them to stay the hell off Mag. If a clan leave SBI to bandwagon onto another server, they’ll pay for your transfer back.

Obvious troll is obvious. War Machine left SBI months and months ago and not a soul cared because SBI is what it is because of the players, not the guilds. There will always be bandwagon players and guilds on every server but 90% of our players genuinely care about the server and how it performs.

Say what you will about SBI but we have been and will always be a class act and here of late it’s been nice to see that in Fort Aspenwood as well. I wish I could say the same for Maguuma but your PvF is horrendous and your kitten in game is even worse. You can say PPT isn’t important and that is fine and all but we’re wiping larger zergs and winning important fights routinely.

On a side note my favorite fight this week had to have been last nights SM double team from FA and Mag where it took about 80 or so players 15 minutes to get about 25 SBI out of lords room. Even more humorous was that we revived the lord about 4 times lol.

As a long time Necro player it makes me cringe when I see players assuming power builds actually utilize Precision or Critical Chance/Damage. True power builds stack Power/Vitality/Toughness and then stack it some more because the whole point of a true Necro power build is not to hit like truck with crits, but to hit hard consistently while being able to tank an opponent. Outlast not out dps.

Right off the bat I can see that your ability to survive is non existent. 916 toughness? Any melee class will walk up to you and hit you so hard that you’ll be forced to jump into DS not to do damage but to delay your imminent demise. I can’t imagine your health pool is any much better.

Your traits and skills are even more confusing to be frank. Are you trying to be a Well-o-mancer in sPvP? Taking Focused Rituals is just silly because you are only taking it to synergize with your slot skills and that is generally a poor way to choose traits. Also why you didn’t take Vital Persistence when 90% of your damage comes from DS is boggling my mind. I would also recommend taking Spiteful Spirit over Spiteful Marks as the damage of marks is already so pitiful it isn’t worth taking and the retaliation proc effect will give you some sustainability.

Player Character.9467:

Too Frisky.9165:

Player Character.9467:

Too Frisky.9165:

Mag has one good night of PPT and suddenly they are the greatest server that ever lived.

o.O somebody forgot to tell sbi that mag is a weekday server and averages 10x the people in voice chat on weekdays… oh wait no it was already mentioned in the thread multiple times.

It’s Monday and you haven’t had that impressive of a showing given that hardly anyone on SBI is actually doing WvW at the moment. Come talk some more smack about how amazing your server is when it’s Thursday and you’re still losing.

You’ve lost… 8k of your lead in the last 10 hours?

More like 2k-3k. During peak hours on ONE day. ZOMFG we must be bad!

It’s obvious you are new to WvW because you are suggesting your server is a “week day” server. Not to be rude but any match-up above T5 is more than a weekend warrior affair. Consistency is key and my “baddie” server has consistently held more map control than either you or FA and have consistently wiped your kitten zergs routinely. One night of disorganization from a server doesn’t mean we’re bad it just means we’ll come back tomorrow with a fresh perspective and the top PPT.

But keep talking because at this point you’re just talking to talk.

Player Character.9467:

Too Frisky.9165:

Mag has one good night of PPT and suddenly they are the greatest server that ever lived.

o.O somebody forgot to tell sbi that mag is a weekday server and averages 10x the people in voice chat on weekdays… oh wait no it was already mentioned in the thread multiple times.

It’s Monday and you haven’t had that impressive of a showing given that hardly anyone on SBI is actually doing WvW at the moment. Come talk some more smack about how amazing your server is when it’s Thursday and you’re still losing. The only thing I have learned about Mag and FA so far is that you are both so full of yourselves, complain about zergs and then do nothing but zerg play yourself.

I’ve been on SBI since day one and I am no stranger to T1/T2 “coverage and superior tactics” and it’s all horse kitten. It’s all a matter of who has a bigger zerg. Your amazing coverage is just a 60 man pain train and I’ve been in several fights where Mag’s superior tactics got them wiped by a zerg a 3rd of the size at Briar literally 5 times in a row. Your commanders must be fantastic.

No shut up and play kitten .

Warthog.6870:

Too Frisky.9165:

FA and Mag talk a big game but I’ve yet to see them do any “superior tactics” other than massive zerg play.

We’ve got a lot of crappy commanders these days but SBI always manages to do well.

“superior tactics” – we respect* the people who invest a ton of time commanding. Maybe you should try that one day…

• that doesn’t mean that we don’t take the kitten all the time – after all we’re the horrible troll server everybody hates

We’ve also got a handful of veteran commanders and they’ve garnered a loyal following so I’d say we absolutely have tried your superior tactics. It’s why we are winning Mag has one good night of PPT and suddenly they are the greatest server that ever lived.

Maladon.5760:

Gravy.7589:

Yeah, SBI has never seen tier 1 numbers or faced them blobs, so yeah we have no idea what to expect. We have actually never faced a sever who has greater numbers than us nor have we EVER had the outnumbered buff on any map. Pvforuming in this thread is just bad :/.

In general we have a lot of new guilds/faces and we need to get more organized which will happen over time. Under no illusion that we can handle TC and don’t really care but thanx for all the attention and concern about our server. You all are precious <3.

I doubt most of the people commenting in this thread about how we’ll fare in Tier 1 and 2 realize we’ve already fought those servers with maybe 10% of our current population. I’m sure we’ll still be outmanned from time to time and our coverage probably won’t be on par but trust me, we’ve already seen the worst those guys can bring to bear.

I doubt there are very many players around here who remember the darkest days of SBI in which we not only played against T1 servers with 10% of our current population but also gave them one hell of a run for their money. FA and Mag talk a big game but I’ve yet to see them do any “superior tactics” other than massive zerg play.

We’ve got a lot of crappy commanders these days but SBI always manages to do well.

Some of the statistics people have been throwing around can’t really be backed up. The truth of the matter is you get Badges of Honor by getting loot drops and the only way to get loot drops is to deal a significant amount of damage to an opponent so if you are running in a zerg it is less likely you will get loot drops. It’s also worth noting that Guild Claiming and Keep Lords drop badges quite consistently. If you really want badges you should run a 5 man havoc squad, flip camps, and gank enemy players while traveling to new camps. On my tank necromancer I get about 30 to 40 badges an hour just by doing the above.

Columba.9730:

Well your central argument is that thieves are not popular in tournament play. I simply point out that this isn’t about tournament play.

That was definitely NOT my central argument whatsoever. My central argument was that thieves are one of the easiest classes to outplay and I listed 3 scenarios that every player will run into when playing a thief. I simply added the tournament statement to further the statement that thieves honestly suck; most people are too busy whining to learn how to counter them.

Oozo.7856:

Too Frisky.9165:

Having a blast in this matchup. Tier 5 is arguably the best place to be for WvW.

T6 seems to have more balance. IoJ and DR might be evenly matched (hard to tell in a 3 way match). The third server in this bracket has had either a population advantage, coverage advantage, or both.

Population really only affects IoJ and DR outnumbers SBI to be perfectly frank. Coverage advantage? How is that unfair when the point of the game is to maintain coverage?

Gab Superstar.4059:

Awlbiste.1803:

Gab Superstar.4059:

The difference in coverage and population is staggering between Tier 4 and Tier 5.

This. While SBI may look like we have large numbers to tier 5 (although it seems to me we are pretty matched with DR for numbers) in tiers 1-4 we were vastly outnumbered since the end of free transfers.

Last night (between 6pm and 1am eastern, when I was playing) we had some amazing fights on the SBI and DR BLs. Props to DR for some nailbiters and really pushing us hard to give it all we’ve got.

DR is nowhere near equal to SBI in terms of numbers. Comparing server population during Friday / Saturday night is kinda foolish.

I’m assuming you are a DR player.

Columba.9730:

The issue is that this is the wvwvw forum, not tournament.

Right right because I forgot how everything I just said related 100% to WvW except my statement about them not being viable in tournament play.

Stop selectively reading what people are saying and drawing false conclusions from their arguments.

First it was we do too much damage. Then it was culling makes us invisible forever (which is a complete and fabricated lie). After that it was we never die. Now it’s being argued that we cannot be killed while downed? Give me a break. A thief can move away from a player attempting to finish him but he can only do it once and if you honestly have an issue killing him after that you should probably uninstall this game.

The truth is, thieves are capable of massive damage but in order to do so he has to give up all means of survivability (i.e. zero toughness or vitality increases) so if you actually know how to play, glass cannon thieves are a cakewalk. Aside from Basilisk Venom and crippling effects, thieves have no real means of control. No roots. No stuns. Just movement impairing effects. Take some condition removal, which you should have already, and dodge to the left or right when he exits stealth on you. Burst him down and he will do one of three things.

1. He will likely pop Hide In Shadows. If a thief pops HiS he is committing to you as his target 100% so if he gets this off a good portion of your work to kill him has been completely in vain. As with any self heal utility it’s painfully obvious when a thief is casting this so if you have any stuns, immobilizes, interrupts, or daze abilities, use them the moment you see him cast this. It will put the ability on cooldown, heal for nothing, and likely give you the opportunity to finish him.

2. He will use Shadow’s Refuge. If a thief uses this ability it means he is likely trying to get away or trying to recollect himself before engaging you again. While in his Refuge AoE he has about 3 seconds of which he cannot exit this refuge or he will lose his stealth. If he succeeds in not leaving or being knocked out after this duration is over he will have 10 seconds of stealth and can move anywhere. AoE his location as much as possible and you can either down him or force him to leave the bubble.

3. He will Shadowstep away. If a thief uses this you haven’t killed him but you’ve scared him off completely. Pat yourself on the back.

Thieves are not broken and they are probably one of the worst classes at high levels of play as illustrated by the fact that NO ONE plays them at tournament level play.

Having a blast in this matchup. Tier 5 is arguably the best place to be for WvW.

Just a small critique here, don’t take it personally.

This build is not a hybrid build in the slightest. Both your gear and your traits suggest that you are focusing heavily on precision stacking with a tiny amount of condition damage and power. From what I can tell, based on both your traits and your gear, this is honestly a dysfunctional glass cannon build. I say dysfunctional because you’ve stacked an absurd amount of precision for critical chance but you have absolutely no critical damage so at this point your critical hits are hitting like normal hits.

I understand that you are going for some synergy between condition damage and critical chance but with absolutely no critical damage your condition critical hits will not hit hard so I think it’s also fair enough to suggest that your build is also not a burst build.

All I see is precision, power, decent condition damage, and absolutely no toughness. Glass cannon with no cannon.

The current system is actually quite fine but thanks to everyone taking advantage of free transfers the community has destroyed the ELO rating so much it will now take months to stabilize completely. T1 servers got so many bandwagon players that their ELO is so massive it takes them weeks and weeks to finally drop (i.e. SBI) while massive population servers in lower tiers (i.e. Kaineng) spend weeks and weeks beating the crap out of lower pop servers until their ELO finally improves.

If you want to blame anyone for the way the current system is working you should be blaming yourselves.

My Necromancer is built as a tank and I stack nothing but Power, Toughness, and Vitality. I don’t trait into Curses, or Soul Reaping and I only put 10 points into Spite just to get the reduced cool-down on Focus abilities. I still manage to easily get about 20 to 30 Badges of Honor every hour or two and I would classify myself as a tank support. Learning to damage your foes significantly while supporting your allies will increase loot bag drops and as such, will indirectly increase the chance you get Badges of Honor.

If you are struggling to get Badges of Honor as drops here are some things you should consider:

1. Bags of Loot are dropped from slain enemies but the only way to attain these drops is by DAMAGING your opponents. You must deal a marginal amount of damage to your opponent before he is slain. Surprisingly, this amount is very small and may only be about 10 to 15 percent.

2. Are you level 80? If not the amount of damage you can deal is quite little as you don’t have max stats, max traits, or rare/exotic gear to amplify your damage output. Once you hit 80 and are geared your damage output will balance out and naturally, more bags will drop.

3. Are you in a party? Parties provide more chances of dropping loot, both literally and figuratively. Drop chances are increased and it’s easier to do more damage to a particular target because your party can single him out.

4. Are you running with the zerg? It’s much harder to get Bags of Loot to drop in a zerg because so many people are attacking an opponent so quickly. Often it may seem that you hit an enemy hard but it’s likely your allies melted him before you could even do 10 percent of his health in damage.

If you want Badges of Honor the fastest I would suggest running a 5 man havoc team and flip camps while ganking enemy players. Make sure, even if you “support” that you are damaging your target as much as possible. I guarantee this will increase the chances of getting badges quickly and efficiently.

Just want to say how proud I am of SBI last night in Eternal Battlegrounds! We took Anzalis Pass and set up a nice long range siege of Stone Mist castle, managing to destroy the outer wall and flood the courtyard. Sadly, YB did a great job of flipping Speldan’s from us as we advanced in so we had little supply to actually get the catapults built on the wall but we wiped YB several times and after finally being forced back to Anzalis Pass we managed to defend it for about an hour or so even though being vastly outnumbered! Great job SBI and props to Yaks Bend for making a fun time.

Mesmers are arguably the most broken of the “assassin” classes. It amazes me how people rage about glass cannon thieves but everyone seems to forget how Mesmers can drop 8k shatters like it’s just another day at the office. Roll one if you want I just think there are too many of them as it is and it is one of the more boring DPS classes as you can honestly just hit your head against the keyboard and get kills.

Andele.1306:

First of all ignore Bhawb and Bas, they are probably some russian duo that live just for trolling around the forums with stupidity.

For fractals and explo dungeons on a general scale in comparison to other classes
Rabid condition damage Necro: 6/10
Condition control necro with hybrid itemization: 9/10
DS based p/v/t build going for utility (Life transfusion, invogration, plague form, etc):10/10
Pure direct damage crit necro: 5/10
Minion Master: 1/10 (you might survive but chances are you are ruining your team
Minion Bomber: 3/10 (works… kinda…)
Well Necro: 8/10 (your team can go into higher level fractals with 5 less agony with no problems since aoe heals you can dish out in timed bursts are pretty strong, you can keep up protection on allies in 9/10 of the important cases and the aoe blind is a “kitten you” to mobs)
Siphon necro: 4/10 (works but would be better of with another build)

Leveling is insane fun no matter the build if you go with aoe and group mobs and then watch em explode, minion aggro pulls are ususally a nice thing then and probably second best explorers by DS combined with spectral walk (jumps), well of darkness (no more veterans stopping you from getting a skill challenge) and flesh wurm (port back to a safe place).

I stopped reading when you said “Condition control necro with hybrid itemization: 10/10”.

And you said Bas and Bhawb were trolling. SMH.

As Rennoko said, you will run into a lot of players who consistently complain and advocate that Necromancers are terrible and need lots and lots and lots of buffs to even be viable. The truth is, they aren’t perfect and it’s arguable that some of their class mechanics are fairly questionable at the moment, particularly Dark Shroud and Minions. However, most players are attempting to turn the Necromancer into a class that it isn’t.

In my opinion, Necromancers are caught in a strange position in the current DPS driven environment simply because Necromancers don’t have a high enough burst output at their core to truly make a difference compared to most classes. It’s obvious that the developers are pushing for Necromancers to build for condition but the issue being is that it seems every class in the game has a way to remove conditions at an alarming rate. Obviously, condition builds suffer quite a bit in terms of reliability, particularly in tPvP where condition removal is a must if you wish to win on a consistent basis.

That being said, if you want to judge the Necromancer’s potential as a class you need to analyze it’s strengths. The Necromancer has, next to the Warrior, the highest base health pool of any class and as a caster class it benefits more from Toughness than medium or heavy armor wearing classes. DPS wise the Necromancer has one of the lowest base attack and falls behind a few classes in terms of condition damage. In a nutshell, the Necromancer excels at tanking targets.

It’s a matter of perspective but I think the Necromancer is doing quite well for itself but most players want a burst driven class and are upset when their Necromancer can’t hit for 4k. I play a very resilient Dagger/Focus/Staff Necromancer and I have made my traits center on healing both myself and my allies at an alarming rate while still maintaining a pleasant amount of DPS.

Mesmer is definitely an excellent choice if you want DPS and some amount of control. Personally I would recommend a Ranger, but I know most people will immediately say they suck. They have some of the highest base DPS and have enough traps and slows to rain on someone’s parade.

If you are unsure of things, I recommend making a class, complete starting area, and then immediately travel to the Heart of the Mists. From there you will be able to gear accordingly, fiddle with traits as you desire, and get a good idea as to how your character will perform against other players in the long run. I test most of my WvW builds thoroughly in tPvP and it works out great.

Cheers.

If you aren’t looking for the best class then this is the wrong part of the forums to be asking. Your first response has already stated the the Mesmer is the “best” choice. I think it would be more beneficial to yourself to ask what type of playstyle you enjoy and then go from there.

Do you want outright DPS? Condition Damage? Survivability?

BioMasterZap.4350:

Oh, I forgot to mention Carrion (Cond main, Power/Vitality minor). Currently I am thinking something like Carrion Armor with the unnamed stat combo on some ascended items (Ralena’s Band has it, main stats are Cond main, tough/vit minor with Rabid as upgrade component). It does give some precision, but it only 18 per trinket which is rather minor and probably the best way I can get toughness with condition.

Whatever you do don’t fall into the common Necromancer trap and stack Vitality. Toughness provides radically greater survivability than Vitality alone but try and find a healthy mix if you are set on building a somewhat survivable build. Rabid gear is good but understand that against an opponent with even some condition removal you will have a hard time maintaining damage output.

In my opinion, Necromancers can take several valid approaches to gameplay. You can focus on one of the following stat priorities:

Power > Precision > Critical Damage:
Here you focus on raw damage output and build precision and critical damage for a nice powerful critical on occasion. This is a low survivability build with high damage output.

Precision > Power > Critical Damage:
With this approach you are attempting to make critical hits a consistent and reliable form of damage. This is a low survivability build with high damage output.

Power > Toughness > Vitality:
If you take this approach you can become much harder to kill but you will sacrifice some dps. This is a very survivable build and damage is based on how you gem or what skills you take.

Condition Damage > Toughness > Precision:
If you want to make the most out a Scepter/Dagger and Staff build I recommend using this simply because you can make your conditions hit hard but have enough toughness to survive a gank long enough to give you options. This is a medium survival build and provides moderate dps.

There are other builds out there, so don’t assume that these are the only ones! You can always try your own ones!

Personally…I think it would be cool if your weapons affected what abilities you had in DS. Or if nothing else when in DS you could “switch weapons” and get a new bar of abilities. Not sure exactly how I would redesign the abilities though. Personally I think Life Blast is somewhat week but honestly the teleport, fear, and life transfer work quite well as it is.

Ireniicus.2167:

I think best to ignore Too Frisky as his logic is fuzzy and subjectively based on a handful of encounters when many many thousands occurred throughout this week and last and there is also an undercurrent that he is a skillful player. Again bar one fantastic Ranger I have not seen any evidence of skill beyond anything YB has to offer in the field and tactically I think we surpass SBI, perhaps because your numbers are too low to get anything happening.

I think my logic is just fine; you all seem to misinterpret what I have said. I didn’t say Yak’s Bend sucks. I stated that my encounters have been nothing but unpleasant and I’ve had quite a few, which leads me to believe that the majority of Yak’s Bend players are less than respectful. That is simply a belief however and I suggested that the players on the forums have been respectful and fine; it’s obvious I have yet to play them.

You’re getting angry over an assumption, not an allegation. If we lived in a world where people were either red or blue and I only ever saw people who were red, would you be angry if I said it was my belief that the majority of the people in the world were red?

As far as Yak’s Bend is concerned I know nothing of your reputation as a server and as I said earlier, I’m sure there are many well mannered players out there but I have yet to play them. Also stating that you are “tactically” superior to SBI and can contain whatever we field is pretty funny. I would certainly hope that a server 5 times our size can contain 20 to 30 players at peak hours.

As someone already stated, Conditions can potentially do more damage but consistency is an issue, particularly against skilled players or when in sPvP where condition removal is insane. Personally, I actually play a Supportmancer. When I look at the Necromancer I cannot help but conclude that in the current meta, Necromancers can do more for their team as a support player. You have healing wells, you can spec into a trait that allows your Life Transfer to heal other players, you can remove conditions and turn them into boons, you have fears, etc.

Whenever I run into a team fight where another Necromancer is running straight condition damage it’s just hilarious when I turn all his conditions into boons =]

If you want consistency as far as damage is concerned you can always trait into power.

Softspoken.2410:

So anyways, nobody was trying to suggest making life siphon mechanics try and proc off of stacks of bleeding, despite any confusing statements. In light of this, Too Frisky, do you still find Daecollo’s suggested changes too much / too little?

(I’m just worried you’re both getting far afield of your original topics.)

Let me put it this way. He mentions gaining up to 246 health per critical hit but by his wording, suggests that life steal/gain is BASED off of condition damage. The literal interpretation suggests that simply scoring a critical hit at all will grant the Necromancer 246 health. That’s absurd.

Life stealing is nothing like condition damage as it isn’t sustained. It’s a quickly channeled ability while condition damage continues to proc and may be constantly maintained. Why you would make the comparison is hilarious.

Life stealing BASED on condition damage would suggest that you are stealing life based on how much condition damage you are doing as if a percentage of your condition damage is converted into healing.

I never said you said life steal triggered off DoTs. However you stated at the opening of the thread that you "have two ideas on the table, one of them improves the numbers, and one of them improves stealing life based on condition damage.

You then say that Life Stealing does not proc off of condition damage…so why even make that statement?

Daecollo.9578:

Too Frisky.9165:

Daecollo.9578:

Too Frisky.9165:

Daecollo.9578:

I have two ideas on the table, one of them improves the numbers, and one of them improves stealing life based on condition damage.

Vampiric Precision.
At level 80, grants about 164 health per critical hit or 246 health with the trait Bloodthirst.

Vampiric
Heals for 164 HP at level 80 or 246 HP with the Bloodthirst trait.

Vampiric Rituals
At level 80, heals the player for 164 health per enemy affected (up to five targets), per pulse, per well. Unaffected by Healing Power.

(This is now effected by Bloodthirst, and heals for 246 per pulse.)

Necromancers have no Mobility, they cannot run away like other classes and healing power does not even effect most of our traits, we deserve to have good sustain. (as the class says we should.) but its stupid that we don’t have nearly the healing we deserve to have.

No offense but I’m just going to go ahead and break your suggestion here. Vampiric Precision grants 164 health per critical hit or 246 if you take Bloodthirst? I can now feasibly and safely stack a 60% critical chance while ignoring critical damage because, who needs critical damage when my ticks are going to heal me for 246 health a pop.

Now I’m going to go into combat, with my PVT build and easily put about 10 stacks of bleed on an opponent and at 60% critical chance it’s likely that 6 of my stacks will give me a critical hit and thus, provide me with 246 health per tick. That’s 1476 health a second and keep in mind it is statistically possible for all my ticks to critical and give me 2460 health a second. This isn’t including my potential extra bleed stacks and poison ticks. It’s mathematically feasible for me to heal for about 4k a second. Meanwhile, I have Well of Blood, so I can be an immobile fortress and heal for 5240 instantly while receiving extra health ticks.

The worse part about this whole example is that I didn’t even account for Healing Power, basic attack critical hits, or even slotting Superior Sigil of Blood in all my weapons.

tl;dr

Stop begging for the ability to be an undying Necromancer when you already have the potential to do so; it’s called Toughness and Vitality.

If you played a necromancer, you would know the traits are not effected by any stats.

Not everyone wishes to be a 30 point deathshroud necromancer, some of us want to be different, you have to have builds for us as well, or you kill the entire point of the class.

Life-stealing does NOT critical…

Life-stealing isn’t effected by power or healing power…

Lol…

…. It also does not trigger off dots…

Life steal doesn’t trigger off of DoTs? Then why on earth would you suggest a build focused on stealing health based on condition damage? You’ve immediately contradicted yourself. I play a Necromancer. I wasn’t referring to Life Steal anyways. You stated that getting a critical hit would grant health and DoTs can critical hit.

I have two ideas on the table, one of them improves the numbers, and one of them improves stealing life based on condition damage.

Vampiric Precision.
At level 80, grants about 164 health per critical hit or 246 health with the trait Bloodthirst.

I feel like a student correcting a professor who has no idea as to what he is talking about.

Most Condition Necromancers run “Precision, Condition Damage, Toughness” as there primary stats. (Because of getting bleeds off critical.)

Number one, I’m not sure what setting you are drawing your data from. Is this from WvW or sPvP? Based on your example you are suggesting that most Condition Necromancers prioritize Precision, stack Condition Damage, and loosely build for Toughness? No wonder people complain about not doing well.

For every 16 points of precision beyond the base of 916, you get 1% Critical Chance. Assuming you want 50% critical chance, which is really the bare minimum you would want for a critical build of any type, you would have to stack at least 800 points of Precision. However, critical hits mean nothing if critical damage is at a flat 0% so you would have to start stacking Berserker’s gems and gear in order to improve your critical damage. By the time you’ve actually satisfied this critical build you would be left with minimal Condition Damage, so your critical hits would be pathetic as it is, and your level of survivability would be next to none because you have no toughness.

You’re basing all your damage on lucky critical hits off of DoT’s? A truly skilled Condition Necromancer is going to place Condition Damage > Toughness > Precision. Why anyone would build around Barbed Precision, a minor trait, is beyond me.

Daecollo.9578:

Too Frisky.9165:

Daecollo.9578:

I have two ideas on the table, one of them improves the numbers, and one of them improves stealing life based on condition damage.

Vampiric Precision.
At level 80, grants about 164 health per critical hit or 246 health with the trait Bloodthirst.

Vampiric
Heals for 164 HP at level 80 or 246 HP with the Bloodthirst trait.

Vampiric Rituals
At level 80, heals the player for 164 health per enemy affected (up to five targets), per pulse, per well. Unaffected by Healing Power.

(This is now effected by Bloodthirst, and heals for 246 per pulse.)

Necromancers have no Mobility, they cannot run away like other classes and healing power does not even effect most of our traits, we deserve to have good sustain. (as the class says we should.) but its stupid that we don’t have nearly the healing we deserve to have.

No offense but I’m just going to go ahead and break your suggestion here. Vampiric Precision grants 164 health per critical hit or 246 if you take Bloodthirst? I can now feasibly and safely stack a 60% critical chance while ignoring critical damage because, who needs critical damage when my ticks are going to heal me for 246 health a pop.

Now I’m going to go into combat, with my PVT build and easily put about 10 stacks of bleed on an opponent and at 60% critical chance it’s likely that 6 of my stacks will give me a critical hit and thus, provide me with 246 health per tick. That’s 1476 health a second and keep in mind it is statistically possible for all my ticks to critical and give me 2460 health a second. This isn’t including my potential extra bleed stacks and poison ticks. It’s mathematically feasible for me to heal for about 4k a second. Meanwhile, I have Well of Blood, so I can be an immobile fortress and heal for 5240 instantly while receiving extra health ticks.

The worse part about this whole example is that I didn’t even account for Healing Power, basic attack critical hits, or even slotting Superior Sigil of Blood in all my weapons.

tl;dr

Stop begging for the ability to be an undying Necromancer when you already have the potential to do so; it’s called Toughness and Vitality.

If you played a necromancer, you would know the traits are not effected by any stats.

Not everyone wishes to be a 30 point deathshroud necromancer, some of us want to be different, you have to have builds for us as well, or you kill the entire point of the class.

Life-stealing does NOT critical…

Life-stealing isn’t effected by power or healing power…

Lol…

…. It also does not trigger off dots…

Life steal doesn’t trigger off of DoTs? Then why on earth would you suggest a build focused on stealing health based on condition damage? You’ve immediately contradicted yourself. I play a Necromancer. I wasn’t referring to Life Steal anyways. You stated that getting a critical hit would grant health and DoTs can critical hit.

I have two ideas on the table, one of them improves the numbers, and one of them improves stealing life based on condition damage.

Vampiric Precision.
At level 80, grants about 164 health per critical hit or 246 health with the trait Bloodthirst.

I feel like a student correcting a professor who has no idea as to what he is talking about.

Torres.2890:

Which one is better for high condition dmg? I know + bleed duration runes + the consumables boost condition dmg alot but does it beat undead runes ??
Using scepter/dagger + staff . Full Condition dmg/toughness/precision gear.
Build: 0 30 20 0 20
All on conditions, and 20 on soul reaping for higher crits due to high precision provided by gear.

The more ticks you get, the more damage you do. Extending the lifespan of your bleeds is massively beneficial but you’re gambling that your opponent is not running any form of condition removal. At this point, it’s whichever you prefer. You can either take flat out condition damage increase or you can gamble that your bleeds will never be removed.

Just keep in mind that bleeds aren’t your only condition.

Daecollo.9578:

I have two ideas on the table, one of them improves the numbers, and one of them improves stealing life based on condition damage.

Vampiric Precision.
At level 80, grants about 164 health per critical hit or 246 health with the trait Bloodthirst.

Vampiric
Heals for 164 HP at level 80 or 246 HP with the Bloodthirst trait.

Vampiric Rituals
At level 80, heals the player for 164 health per enemy affected (up to five targets), per pulse, per well. Unaffected by Healing Power.

(This is now effected by Bloodthirst, and heals for 246 per pulse.)

Necromancers have no Mobility, they cannot run away like other classes and healing power does not even effect most of our traits, we deserve to have good sustain. (as the class says we should.) but its stupid that we don’t have nearly the healing we deserve to have.

No offense but I’m just going to go ahead and break your suggestion here. Vampiric Precision grants 164 health per critical hit or 246 if you take Bloodthirst? I can now feasibly and safely stack a 60% critical chance while ignoring critical damage because, who needs critical damage when my ticks are going to heal me for 246 health a pop.

Now I’m going to go into combat, with my PVT build and easily put about 10 stacks of bleed on an opponent and at 60% critical chance it’s likely that 6 of my stacks will give me a critical hit and thus, provide me with 246 health per tick. That’s 1476 health a second and keep in mind it is statistically possible for all my ticks to critical and give me 2460 health a second. This isn’t including my potential extra bleed stacks and poison ticks. It’s mathematically feasible for me to heal for about 4k a second. Meanwhile, I have Well of Blood, so I can be an immobile fortress and heal for 5240 instantly while receiving extra health ticks.

The worse part about this whole example is that I didn’t even account for Healing Power, basic attack critical hits, or even slotting Superior Sigil of Blood in all my weapons.

tl;dr

Stop begging for the ability to be an undying Necromancer when you already have the potential to do so; it’s called Toughness and Vitality.

LOCO.1785:

Yep, WvW needs huge improvements if ANet want to keep it’s player base. I myself haven’t played in a couple weeks and I used to sink a lot of time into the game.

It’s the same thing over and over and what for? So you can do it all again next week?

It hasn’t lived up the the hype IMO. Such potential, but they just couldn’t deliver. Shame really.

WvW is still fun but I do agree that it can be quite redundant. If ANet could make it so that borderlands become randomized each week it would keep things fresh and exciting. You’d have to come up with new strategies as the map would change each week.

Jski.6180:

Too Frisky.9165:

You’re throwing a tantrum about some items bringing imbalance to the game but you are okay with WvW being gear dependent…? I forgot how players geared in full exotic armor don’t have a distinct advantage over players geared in masterwork.

Its very different, gear diffuseness is only a means of over all power skill plays a major factor but when you can chain stun with only one person that becomes comply different. Its like taking an predator missile to a fist fight.

It’s actually not different in the slightest. You say skill takes precedence over gear but I don’t think I’ve ever seen a player in masterwork gear, however skilled they may be, take down an even slightly intelligent player in full exotic gear unless he is a glass cannon. The player in exotics can do more damage, can take more damage, has more health, and can out heal his opponent in masterwork gear.

Also if you’re getting destroyed by the spike fruit you are likely running a full glass cannon build and have absolutely no condition removal or stun breakers. While I don’t use this item myself, it is completely legal but also absurdly easy to deal with as long as you don’t run a faceroll damage build.

Facet.5914:

Too Frisky.9165:

Facet.5914:

Too Frisky.9165:

patricide.1062:

Too Frisky.9165:

I predict this week’s match up to follow in the footstep’s of last weeks. Yak’s Bend makes a huge and impressive showing for the weekend and then – BOOM – Crystal Desert’s Oceanic guilds lay waste to the point ticks during the night while the rest of us slumber. Meanwhile, SBI is having fun working with what is left of our server population.

As an SBI player, it’s disheartening to see minimal coverage during the daytime and the complete absence of it during the night. It is generally fun playing against Crystal Desert though as you guys seem to have the best attitude and know when to keep your distance. Yak’s Bend on the other hand is a hilarious opponent as they are a bit too smug. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Yak’s player on his own and it’s amazing how they manage to lose 4v1 fights but love to dance on your body after their thirty man zerg runs your over when you are their only kill.

#WvWproblems

So, where have you been? These matchup threads have been filled with complements from all sides about the others’ manners. I could say the same thing, but I keep my mouth shut out of respect for our opponent.

Respect is earned, not given. What’s the point of sincerity if it’s insincere? I’m not saying there aren’t well mannered Yak’s Bend players out, I just haven’t run into them yet. I just find it amusing when a server hasn’t actually accomplished anything but feels the need to flaunt every victory, however meaningless.

What Pat is saying is that you seem to be the only one that doesn’t feel that each server in the matchup has earned the respect of the others. The matchup threads up until this point have been filled with nothing but people with good things to say about the others. Please point out where you think YB was gloating.

I don’t mean Yak’s Bend players have been gloating in this thread. That’s not my intent at all! I’m saying that I spend more of my time in WvW instead of the forums and YB players generally leave a sour taste in my mouth. I don’t find them particularly skilled at all and nine times out of ten they can’t beat me in a 1v1, let alone a 4v1 (which seems to happen more often). At the same time I find that YB players are the first to gloat, teabag, dance, and laugh over your body after their group of ten appears out of nowhere thanks to culling and runs a train on you. Crystal Desert seems to generally bow or move along after a fight; I’ve had maybe but two bad experiences with them?

THAT ALL BEING SAID…I will say that I have met some YB players that have been great opponents and it is obvious that the players posting in this thread are respectful to the end, whether sincere or otherwise. I’m simply stating that YB players on a whole (in WvW, not on the forums) seem to be quite full of themselves but coming from T1 and having played against some truly skilled players, I just find it silly for them to be so arrogant and disrespectful as a whole.

It only takes a few bad apples to ruin the bunch.

Dunno what to tell you man, your anecdotes run counter to what most of our opponents have told us since launch. YB has a reputation for class, quality, tenacity, and punching above our coverage. In this matchup we happen to have a quantity advantage on the weekend as well, which is why the score looks like it does.

As I have repeated frequently…this is simply my opinion. I generally don’t pay attention to score; that just tells you who has the largest army. The quality of the fights and the general aftermath is what I pay attention to the most. I’ve never heard of Yak’s Bend having a reputation for class or quality but I also never paid any attention to lower tiers until SBI started sinking in the lineup. It’s possible I just seem to run into some awful Yak’s Bend players repeatedly. Either way, it’s fun to kill them.

I’m honestly not quite sure why anyone is getting upset to be honest. I haven’t attacked anyone directly. People make generalizations about SBI players but I rarely take note because generalizations are, quite simply, generalizations. If it doesn’t apply to you then why take the comments as inflammatory?

Ordibble.3092:

Too Frisky.9165:

I’m simply stating that YB players on a whole …I just find it silly for them to be so arrogant and disrespectful as a whole.

Too Frisky.9165:

It only takes a few bad apples to ruin the bunch.

So what is it? The whole of YB, or just a few bad apples?

Too Frisky.9165:

Crystal Desert seems to generally bow or move along after a fight; I’ve had maybe but two bad experiences with them?

Why are you asking us for validation of how many bad experiences you have had with them? You are the one who had them. And can we assume that if you had had three bad experiences (i.e., a few) with CD you would then be entitled to claim that CD, as a whole, is arrogant? There’s still time in the match.

Was that sincere enough for you?

I wasn’t asking for validation, it was a mistype. I’m also not quite sure as to what is confusing you when I say it only takes a few bad apples to ruin the bunch. Are you unfamiliar with this saying? If not, it’s quite obvious what my intent was. I am simply stating that Yak’s Bend players, in my particular experience are less than respectable opponents; all fury but no sound. I don’t recall stating that you personally fell into this category so I’m not sure where your hostility is coming from. This is simply my opinion and you are entitled to disagree with it.

I think the only truly balanced approach would be to scale NPC health based on how large the player differential is on each Borderland.

For example if the enemy massively outnumbers my server on Eternal Battlegrounds, our NPCs should be dramatically hard to kill but their NPCs should be much easier to kill. But if we are roughly evenly matched then NPCs would obviously receive no buff to health or damage.

I think it would make more sense as far as balance goes simply because if my home borderlands has a queue and there are no enemies on our map but they own a garrison, it should require more manpower to take the garrison.

Reserved for excellent community critiques and suggestions. Will post quotes in this section.

Facet.5914:

Too Frisky.9165:

patricide.1062:

Too Frisky.9165:

I predict this week’s match up to follow in the footstep’s of last weeks. Yak’s Bend makes a huge and impressive showing for the weekend and then – BOOM – Crystal Desert’s Oceanic guilds lay waste to the point ticks during the night while the rest of us slumber. Meanwhile, SBI is having fun working with what is left of our server population.

As an SBI player, it’s disheartening to see minimal coverage during the daytime and the complete absence of it during the night. It is generally fun playing against Crystal Desert though as you guys seem to have the best attitude and know when to keep your distance. Yak’s Bend on the other hand is a hilarious opponent as they are a bit too smug. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Yak’s player on his own and it’s amazing how they manage to lose 4v1 fights but love to dance on your body after their thirty man zerg runs your over when you are their only kill.

#WvWproblems

So, where have you been? These matchup threads have been filled with complements from all sides about the others’ manners. I could say the same thing, but I keep my mouth shut out of respect for our opponent.

Respect is earned, not given. What’s the point of sincerity if it’s insincere? I’m not saying there aren’t well mannered Yak’s Bend players out, I just haven’t run into them yet. I just find it amusing when a server hasn’t actually accomplished anything but feels the need to flaunt every victory, however meaningless.

What Pat is saying is that you seem to be the only one that doesn’t feel that each server in the matchup has earned the respect of the others. The matchup threads up until this point have been filled with nothing but people with good things to say about the others. Please point out where you think YB was gloating.

I don’t mean Yak’s Bend players have been gloating in this thread. That’s not my intent at all! I’m saying that I spend more of my time in WvW instead of the forums and YB players generally leave a sour taste in my mouth. I don’t find them particularly skilled at all and nine times out of ten they can’t beat me in a 1v1, let alone a 4v1 (which seems to happen more often). At the same time I find that YB players are the first to gloat, teabag, dance, and laugh over your body after their group of ten appears out of nowhere thanks to culling and runs a train on you. Crystal Desert seems to generally bow or move along after a fight; I’ve had maybe but two bad experiences with them?

THAT ALL BEING SAID…I will say that I have met some YB players that have been great opponents and it is obvious that the players posting in this thread are respectful to the end, whether sincere or otherwise. I’m simply stating that YB players on a whole (in WvW, not on the forums) seem to be quite full of themselves but coming from T1 and having played against some truly skilled players, I just find it silly for them to be so arrogant and disrespectful as a whole.

It only takes a few bad apples to ruin the bunch.

Hey guys,

So a recent debate came up about spies, trolls, and newer players that needlessly waste supply on upgrades. Whether accidental or purposeful, losing an entire stock of supply can make holding off a zerg on your garrison or keep absolutely impossible to stop. As it has been stated though, reporting players for playing the game incorrectly isn’t a viable solution to the issue as they can consistently plead innocence. My solution? Badges of Honor.

As it stands, the only way to order an upgrade is to utilize supply but in some cases this seems counter intuitive to me. This is why I suggest using Badges of Honor as the dedicated upgrade currency. Currently, Badges of Honor do little but use up your inventory space unless you are saving for your legendary or plan on mindlessly wasting them on an ugly set of Invaders gear. I know that ANet has stated that in a coming update Badges of Honor will have more uses, such as possibly purchasing ascended gear, but that means very little to dedicated WvW players.

I’m sure you are wondering what benefit spending your Badges of Honor would have over spending supply to upgrade structures. First and foremost, this would make upgrading structures a legitimate investment; a labor of love. Instead of mindlessly flipping a keep and spending the supply the previous owners failed to use, you would be left with a serious decision. Do I spend MY Badges of Honor to upgrade this keep or do I save them for reinforcing Garrison? Ultimately, upgrading a structure is an actual investment of your time.

More importantly, it is highly unlikely that newer players will be able to accidentally order an upgrade and rob an entire keep of its supply. The chances of a newer player having, say, 50 Badges of Honor to spend haphazardly on upgrading a tower is second to none and even if he does do so, I think he’ll remember to NOT do that again after having just lost a sizable chunk of hard earned badges. Spies and trolls will also be at a distinct disadvantage because they will have to invest their own time into killing enemy players or doing jumping puzzles in order to gain badges and let’s face it, spies and trolls only order upgrades because it takes no effort from them to do so.

The only feasible disadvantage of using Badges of Honor as the upgrade currency is that their drop rate is low (something that could be marginally altered in future updates) and that servers with supreme map control will find it harder to obtain them. That being said, I don’t think a server with supreme map control really needs to upgrade their structures, especially if they are spawn camping or own everything on a particular map. This would, however, provide a server with no map control ample opportunity to gain Badges of Honor much easier and thus, possibly regain a keep and fortify it, allowing them to obtain some measure of control on the map.

Anyways, thanks for reading (I hope it was more interesting than long!) and please post comments, suggestions, and critiques!

You’re throwing a tantrum about some items bringing imbalance to the game but you are okay with WvW being gear dependent…? I forgot how players geared in full exotic armor don’t have a distinct advantage over players geared in masterwork.

patricide.1062:

Too Frisky.9165:

I predict this week’s match up to follow in the footstep’s of last weeks. Yak’s Bend makes a huge and impressive showing for the weekend and then – BOOM – Crystal Desert’s Oceanic guilds lay waste to the point ticks during the night while the rest of us slumber. Meanwhile, SBI is having fun working with what is left of our server population.

As an SBI player, it’s disheartening to see minimal coverage during the daytime and the complete absence of it during the night. It is generally fun playing against Crystal Desert though as you guys seem to have the best attitude and know when to keep your distance. Yak’s Bend on the other hand is a hilarious opponent as they are a bit too smug. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Yak’s player on his own and it’s amazing how they manage to lose 4v1 fights but love to dance on your body after their thirty man zerg runs your over when you are their only kill.

#WvWproblems

So, where have you been? These matchup threads have been filled with complements from all sides about the others’ manners. I could say the same thing, but I keep my mouth shut out of respect for our opponent.

Respect is earned, not given. What’s the point of sincerity if it’s insincere? I’m not saying there aren’t well mannered Yak’s Bend players out, I just haven’t run into them yet. I just find it amusing when a server hasn’t actually accomplished anything but feels the need to flaunt every victory, however meaningless.

I predict this week’s match up to follow in the footstep’s of last weeks. Yak’s Bend makes a huge and impressive showing for the weekend and then – BOOM – Crystal Desert’s Oceanic guilds lay waste to the point ticks during the night while the rest of us slumber. Meanwhile, SBI is having fun working with what is left of our server population.

As an SBI player, it’s disheartening to see minimal coverage during the daytime and the complete absence of it during the night. It is generally fun playing against Crystal Desert though as you guys seem to have the best attitude and know when to keep your distance. Yak’s Bend on the other hand is a hilarious opponent as they are a bit too smug. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a Yak’s player on his own and it’s amazing how they manage to lose 4v1 fights but love to dance on your body after their thirty man zerg runs your over when you are their only kill.

#WvWproblems