Guild Wars 2

MatyrGustav.6210:

Vgman.4019:

Stealth is an interesting mechanic its just that for the most part it doesn’t make any sense unless your using some sort of futuristic cloaking device. “hey I’m standing slightly crouched in the middle of this open field, clearly that means no one should be able to see me!”. And honestly im SOOO tired of the fact that pretty much every mmorpg as well as most I rpg’s in general come out with a “stealth” class, for gods sake we don’t need one in every game.

MatyrGustav.6210:

Goob.9752:

As for me I believe stealth needs buffed. Lol

I agree, without it I die in a second. People think just because we can escape its OP. If a thief leaves then the other persons won, yeah tbey didnt get a kill but oh well.

There is nothing wrong with stealth, people just get angry cause thieves are escape artists.

I was fighting a tank war in WVW,, he had the best gear, and I didnt. I couldnt kill him, but I was able to escape. I came back to fight like 7 times but escaped everytime till my team came and killed him. He was sooo mad he couldnt get me, he came back to try to kill me like 3 times but couldnt because my team was there.

I dont understand why he would get soo mad, I didnt kill him, but he kept coming after me. Im pretty sure he would say stealth is OP even tho I couldnt kill him myself.

Personally I’m on his side of this. You said yourself you couldn’t defeat him but because your a thief you can keep harrassing him without fear of dying even though he was the better player and you SHOULD have been killed. Forcing somone to run away is a victory sure I’ll give you that but its an incredibly small victory. Its not like your leaving the field of battle so your never actually retreating but instead making a tactical withdraw. Forcing you to sit through a spawn timer and go back to start is a much much bigger victory and the one that he earned several times over by your post. But because of your class and the way it works he was simply never rewarded the way he should have been. That is, if nothing else, infuriating.

If I was my engi I could have killed him. But thieves have stealth and because of it they have low health. Theres the balance.

I didnt kill him, he didnt kill me thats the balance. Dont you think if he killed me 7 times in a row I would say his class is too OP?

Of course you would, but anyone with half a brain knows thieves are very capable of killing a war. The fact that you couldn’t was due to a gear imbalance and if you still couldn’t once you got up to his gear level then its a skill imbalance (him simply being the better player). Yet for all of his effort he has put into his character and all of the ability he has to play his class he still isn’t rewarded. You can call this balance all you want but its not. He deserved those kills but was denied them, not because of your ability, not because of your gear, but because of your class and its access to stealth.

rmBossa.4621:

mjharrison.3209:

leaving aside the sheer silliness of going invisible in plain sight of an opponent, the ability to chain stealth indefinitely via CnD is really bad design IMO. In WVW for instance you can just CnD a wall inside an enemy keep to stay hidden indefinitely, then go rez a downed mesmer and away you go.

When you can solo WVW keep lords thanks to infinite stealth, something is really broken:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kc7RxKJ1lE

you use the word “indefinitely” like you know what it means, but Im pretty sure you dont.

Also im pretty sure you didnt watch the video you just posted, he EXPLOITS and has nothing to do with stealth OMG

Well I know I just watched the video and I know that what he did would not have been possible if not for the easy access to stealth and being able to go into stealth every few seconds. Yea he used an exploit to get inside but lets be honest, without stealth he wouldn’t have done any real dmg.

Stealth is an interesting mechanic its just that for the most part it doesn’t make any sense unless your using some sort of futuristic cloaking device. “hey I’m standing slightly crouched in the middle of this open field, clearly that means no one should be able to see me!”. And honestly im SOOO tired of the fact that pretty much every mmorpg as well as most rpg’s in general come out with a “stealth” class, for gods sake we don’t need one in every game.

MatyrGustav.6210:

Goob.9752:

As for me I believe stealth needs buffed. Lol

I agree, without it I die in a second. People think just because we can escape its OP. If a thief leaves then the other persons won, yeah tbey didnt get a kill but oh well.

There is nothing wrong with stealth, people just get angry cause thieves are escape artists.

I was fighting a tank war in WVW,, he had the best gear, and I didnt. I couldnt kill him, but I was able to escape. I came back to fight like 7 times but escaped everytime till my team came and killed him. He was sooo mad he couldnt get me, he came back to try to kill me like 3 times but couldnt because my team was there.

I dont understand why he would get soo mad, I didnt kill him, but he kept coming after me. Im pretty sure he would say stealth is OP even tho I couldnt kill him myself.

Personally I’m on his side of this. You said yourself you couldn’t defeat him but because your a thief you can keep harrassing him without fear of dying even though he was the better player and you SHOULD have been killed. Forcing somone to run away is a victory sure I’ll give you that but its an incredibly small victory. Its not like your leaving the field of battle so your never actually retreating but instead making a tactical withdraw. Forcing you to sit through a spawn timer and go back to start is a much much bigger victory and the one that he earned several times over by your post. But because of your class and the way it works he was simply never rewarded the way he should have been. That is, if nothing else, infuriating.

Personally I hated wow’s arena system. Pre 2k most of the fights boil down to who has more gear 2k-2.3k or so is where most of the above average players are and anything higher than that is nothing more than a rock/paper/scissors match where you know weather or not you’ve won/lost when the gates open.

Stealth is stronger in this game than it is in any other mmo I’ve played. The main reason for this is that stealth is outright invisibility, a stealth character is virtually impossible to find (right now you can play “minesweeper” as i like to call it with melee weapons but that’s a bug to the best of my knowledge and you aren’t “supposed” to be able to do that). The main thing leading to this issue is a very large lack of large aoe’s on many classes, as well as abilities that many people would normally consider an aoe simply not being one.

Stealth definitely needs some tuning down even if that’s done indirectly by making current aoe’s larger or more numerous.

Asura are fine, the real issue is the lack of information that the UI gives (cast bars, targets target, bla bla bla). In the future I hope to see a good few UI updates wich could easily negate asuras advantage all together (even if that advantage is only other people taking longer to be able to properly read their movements).

Sand Beagle.9867:

I would recommend neither using 5% damage or 5% crit chance, since both give only a miniscule damage bonus.

First 8 or so hits on a 100b, only difference is the sigils.
Base ESD: 7886.46
5% damage: 8178.55
5% crit chance: 8081.67

As you can see, there are much better sigils you can put on your weapons.

To be fair, thiefs are all about killing people with that mug/backstab combo. More damage is more damage. (and 5% non crit dmg is 10% crit dmg)

Durzlla.6295:

Maybe you should just up your health pool or increase your toughness so your health doesn’t fluctuate so rapidly?

Vs thieves you can have as much hp and as much tough as you want, he can still hit you for more than 10% of your hp.

As a war with around 2k tough and somthing like 27k hp i still get hit for far more than 2.7k hp

5.4k is rare but it dose occasionally happen. And remember this is a bunker war, highest hp of all the classes ive played in spvp. most other classes sit at 20k or less (2k or 4k wich is very easy for the thief to do over.)

Still, personally I’m ok with this. While thief dmg could definitely stand some downwards adjustments if we had things in this game that worked against everything all the time with no hope of counter then why wouldn’t everyone use those things? While these runes don’t stand up to well against glass cannons they are amazing against condition and bunker players so they can still have a good deal of use.

One way you can get it to land without relying on quickness (god i hate that ability) Is by using bolas. As you pointed out op bolas are pretty easy to dodge and unfortunately the only way to get them to land reliably is when your in mele range. For this I recommend using GS 5 to close the gap, wait for the first dodge if they are a ranged class (because they ALWAYS do) then hit your bola get behind and press 2. As state before though this only works against new players with bad utility slots. Anything you do with 100b is going to be like this.

Sunnydaze.6815:

How many seconds of stealth would they need in order for you to have no clue that they were there? If you were running to cap a point and they used shadow refuge while staying out of your view, wouldn’t you have outrun them?

They wouldn’t need much, blinding powder alone would do it if they where standing in a spot other than the point itself so they weren’t immediately visible on approach due to hiding behind a wall while using the camera to peak around corners.

As far as I can tell equipping a 5% dmg bonus to the mh weapon will not effect the dmg of the offhand weapon and vise-versa.

I would recommend putting blood lust on your offhand and keeping 5% dmg on main hand.

And the thought just occurred to me, are you talking about the default build the game starts you with? In that case don’t give it any credit, the default builds for every class are pretty much terrible.

DieQuex.4096:

Dee Jay.2460:

I’m not even going to attempt to justify such damage.

I’ve been saying that Mug needs a nerf and this is just further proof.

Vgman.4019:

Engis you can see coming, engis you can prepare for, engis you can preempt. Already stealth thieves? Your dead before theirs a chance to react.

To be fair, and already stealthed Thief can’t hit you like that. Mug would apply Revealed to him which would ruin his consecutive Cloak and Dagger + Backstab.

An already stealthed Thief can only hit you with Backstab.

A big problem with the “instant-gib” combo is that it is instant and almost completely untelegraphed. Steal has no animation and the Cloak and Dagger is a very subtle melee attack too, let alone that it is pre-cast most of the time.

Nope. A stealthed thief can hit you with stab + steal while in stealth if they link the skills together fast enough. Steal + CnD + BS isn’t as big a problem imo as Thieves who can sit in stealth (black powder + HS into a wall/crevice, easy 10 seconds of stealth) and stab + steal with a sin’s signet and potentially 100-0% an opponent in less than a second. I’ve done it multiple times.

Thief burst needs toning down, but the class also needs something in return. Otherwise the only real tournament viable build thieves have will be gone with no other role for them to fill outside of venom share, which still isn’t that great.

Personally i’m all for making thieves a tad bit more beefy and a tad bit less bursty.

Jumper.9482:

Vgman.4019:

Lots of thieves in this thread defending this crazy amount of damage. No other glass cannons can kill someone in ~.5 seconds with three button presses. You say the op is full glass cannon so he deserves to be effectively one shot, how dose this line of thinking even begin to make sense? What your implying is that thieves should be virtually insta-win against any other glass cannon spec. This is GW2 not rock/paper/scissors 2.0.
As it stands, the ONLY way not to die to this is to simply not run glass cannon. Why should people be locked out of a play style they enjoy simply because thieves will ALWAYS beat that play style?

This particular combo simply needs to be nerfed.

Engie.
Except Engie burst is on a 10 second cooldown.
Not 45.

Engis you can see coming, engis you can prepare for, engis you can preempt. Already stealth thieves? Your dead before theirs a chance to react.

Lots of thieves in this thread defending this crazy amount of damage. No other glass cannons can kill someone in ~.5 seconds with three button presses. You say the op is full glass cannon so he deserves to be effectively one shot, how dose this line of thinking even begin to make sense? What your implying is that thieves should be virtually insta-win against any other glass cannon spec. This is GW2 not rock/paper/scissors 2.0.
As it stands, the ONLY way not to die to this is to simply not run glass cannon. Why should people be locked out of a play style they enjoy simply because thieves will ALWAYS beat that play style?

This particular combo simply needs to be nerfed.

Vengeance dose this, think of it as the drawback for downed wars being a free kill /shrug.

Arheundel.6451:

Dee Jay.2460:

Yep, nerf Elementalists and Guardians boon rolling/bunker abilities, slightly nerf Mesmers utility and clone spam and make Thieves a little more defensive and less bursty and Warriors should be fine again.

That will never happen, warriors got armor and HP, other professions got boons, healing and clones…deal with it or change game, devs already confirmed that bunkers are not going anywhere, slighty changed maybe but they’re here to stay; boons and healing are there as compensation for the low HP…

As far as I know only this game got professions with 45% more HP than other and in your mind how that 45% difference should be justified ? Superior dmg?Control? Support? If not for any of the three option why a player should pick the profession with 45% less HP? Just to look pretty?

Where did he say to completely remove the advantages of those classes? He simply said to tone them down ie nerf them. As it stands the hp a warrior currently has over other classes doesn’t make up for the huge benefits of said classes.

But still Id rather see warriors beefed up rather than other classes nerfed.

Crying.7930:

I never mentioned that i want power boost.I just thought there will be competetive enviroment and there is none,also there is no sense of progress.. you are not getting anywhere.

I was under the assumption that paids where the competitive environment? (never done a paid)

As far as sense of progress? Its coming from that purple bar at the bottom of your screen, yes I realize that all that dose is give you access to more gear with different skins and the same stats but for some people that’s enough. Personaly I compliment people on insane looking gear and high rank simply because I know that they have put the time into this game to have gotten very good at it.

Basically dab If your going to play warrior your going to go glass cannon. If your loosing to hammer war then it pretty much IS an l2p issue. Hammer builds are for team fights and aoe controll/nockdown bla bla bla. Generally far more usefull in WvW and almost never use full in 1v1.

And the main reason that war right now is all about the glass cannon is because war has the weakest built in defenses in the game. Think about it, Mesmers have clones to confuse players, Mesmers and thieves both have stealth (which is very op in this game). Rangers have tons of abilities that cause them to evade attacks while still attacking others as well as being ranged. Ele’s have crazy healing good control crazy mobility and can have crazy passive defense on top of all that. Engineers have lots of control and while thats the only real thing they have unless you have stability ready to go you WILL spend the entire fight flying through the air or with your face in the dirt vs a good engi. And gaurdians? High armor high healing and crazy defensive abilities and probably the easiest access to the protection boon (which is a pretty big deal).

Warriors? Well we have high armor and high hp. And thats pretty much it. And when I say high hp i mean like 5k more in our bunker build than most others in theirs. Which simply doesn’t begin to make up for the huge amount of damage we take compared to other classes and their abilities to avoid it out right, simply heal through it, or reduce it by an insane amount.

Not to mention our profession skill (the f1 abilities) is so terrible most of the time your better off not using it depending on how your traited which means every other class in the game has extra utility on us.

Dabrixmgp.4758:

Miko.5726:

Oni.5429:

Warriors are fine, both in tournaments and in hotjoin.

Thats why you play ranger and ele …

What makes rangers so good? they keep owning me no matter what class I try.

Rangers have very few viable builds however the ones that are viable are extremely potent. However the best way I can answer this is to simply tell you to go to the ranger forums and ask around for good builds.

lick wounds keeps healing until the ranger gets up. You can interrupt it via the normal ways of interrupting things (daze/knockdown/blowout/stun/blablablabla) to the best of my knowledge. Because damage is lower across the board under water and lick wounds is the same its incredibly strong. In all honesty if you MUST fight a ranger under water you may very well be better off avoiding him until the pet reses him killing him avoiding again and then finally finishing him off after the third down thanks to downed penalty.

Fun largely. There are balance issues and I hate that I’m pretty much not allowed to play my warrior if theirs even one person on the opposing team that doesn’t lick the windows.

Still though, If I feel like it I can roll a new toon and go into spvp in less than 5 mins (not counting the time it takes to name my character). So yea I really enjoy spvp. If your the kind of person that MUST have a reward that boosts the power of your char then spvp probably isn’t for you.

Oh boy.

Sword and rifle:
Halve the damage the bleed duration and the cast time of auto attacks (button 1) (more attacks=more crits more crits= more bleed procs, faster attack times and lower bleed duraitions= faster realized potential of bleed dps)

Riffle 4 replaced with a kick that dazes the target.

Mace:
Weakness applies on second strike rather than third for button 1(obscenely hard to get your target to stand still long enough to land the third hit in pvp).

axes/war horns/great swords/hammers are fine.

Do something with the longbow, i can’t find a use for it in any pvp build.

Burst abilities? this requires a whole thread in and of itself. Basically, they suck.

Overall I don’t have a huge problem with bunkers. Applying multiple different conditions seems to be a very good rout to go to whittle them down. If your a straight up glass cannon then you need to figure out the best time to strike against that bunker and not rush in and drop all of your burst while hes blocking. I wont say every bunker spec is balanced (cough* ele’s *cough) but I will say they are not the be all end all you apparently think they are.

or they could just outright remove rally from player kills exclusively. Personally I would be very iritated to never be brought up in a team fight because the game simply didn’t pick me and effectively die because of RNG.

So yea leave downed state in but remove rally on player kill.

Alex.6940:

A thief could just lay down black powder around a downed ally too, making impossible for anyone to stomp them.

the aoe for blind powder is a little to small to pull that off I think (could be mistaking it for a different aoe blind). Most thieves just drop shadow refuge and rez their ally while lol’ing at ranged and mele to dumb to mash their face against the 1 button.

Dee Jay.2460:

No thank you. Getting off a 3 second channeled cast in melee range of a downed enemy who is often in the middle of a clusterkitten does not need to be made any more difficult.

Ignoring the fact of course that you can stomp people under the effects of abilities that make you invulnerable and supposed to make you unable to attack. (such as mist form and what not).

NinjaEd.3946:

Well I do know that ele don’t have to fully spec healing power and their healing skills do generally well. I think (now this is just going off the knowledge of ele I know from friends/wiki/etc) a D/D or S/D ele if they constantly spammed skills could do well, however that also raises the question, do the skills have to hit something or just be used? Even though the skill is intended towards offensive builds, it kind of forces the ele to constantly have to switch attunements just to keep the heals coming when they may want to stick with water for a bit to support allies or stick with fire for the bonus dmg traits/runes but idk. Maybe some ele can utilize it well while others see no point to it, its the same for Signet of Malice.
That warrior signet does sound fairly weak but how well does it scale off healing power? Maybe all it needs is higher scaling for those who are willing to put a lil healing power on (sounds silly, but thats all I can suggest for them as idk warrior healing enough).

I believe the ele one works each time they cast a spell rather than hit with a spell but not 100% on that. As for the war one it doesn’t scale very well with healing power and just ends up falling short. The amount it dose do would be fine if we had other built in defenses but we simply don’t. Wars have plenty of issues though and heres hoping that some of em get resolved in febs big patch.

I’ve been playing wow off and on (mostly on) since the last tir of burning crusade (the first expansion, their have been 4 total now). I can honestly say that I feel GW2 is better in every single way. Yes it has a lot of kinks to work out but there is an amazing amount of potential for this game. The dodge mechanic is simply wonderful and truly dose make the game feel more skill based with clutch dodges screwing over your opponents burst/combo/control/whatever.

Spvp pretty much defines everything I ever wanted from wow pvp. A place where I can come home log on and kill some dudes (or rage and throw things irl) without needing to worry about some crazy gear grind and needing to pvp for a month+ before I’m in the gear I need to be in before I’m allowed to start having fun.

All that said wow dose have its redeeming qualities like being more polished since its had 8 or so years to get that way but still I’m really interested to see what direction GW2 will go from here.

PS: Id rather fight and loose to trap rangers all day than fight and win against mesmers, god those things irritate me.

NinjaEd.3946:

Vgman.4019:

Durzlla.6295:

After looking at the healing signets it looks like the active is meant for when you ABSOLUTELY NEED that burst of healing, IE you’re being focused and just can not get the healing you need to stay in the fight without popping it sort of thing.

Theres a problem with that to though.

Most of the time when you are forced to use your healing trinket the damage that you heal for is dealt to you during the time your spending to activate it meaning it only really buys you maybe 1-2 seconds of life? (and thats even when in bunker spec). I agree that healing signets in general could use some looking at just remember to be careful with em, because as it stands they are actually pretty good for a passive ability you don’t need to monitor.

How are the warriors/elementalists healing signets? Just curious. And I agree, they are great not having to monitor them, but still the way malice is atm might as well disable the ability to active it since it just authorizes the death and a respawn timer in pvp.

The elementalist one isnt that great but you would have a hard time buffing it considering how incredibly strong the bunker build for ele already is. (they can also pick up a trait in their tough tree that lets them keep passives after being used)

As far as the warrior one goes… its not the best heal but its definitly the easiest to use since its passive. I think its going to be something like 500ish ticks every 2-3 seconds or so. Hps wise its pretty low and could definitely stand some buffing on both the passive and active effects. Of all the heal sigs thieves definitely have the best.

Durzlla.6295:

After looking at the healing signets it looks like the active is meant for when you ABSOLUTELY NEED that burst of healing, IE you’re being focused and just can not get the healing you need to stay in the fight without popping it sort of thing.

Theres a problem with that to though.

Most of the time when you are forced to use your healing trinket the damage that you heal for is dealt to you during the time your spending to activate it meaning it only really buys you maybe 1-2 seconds of life? (and thats even when in bunker spec). I agree that healing signets in general could use some looking at just remember to be careful with em, because as it stands they are actually pretty good for a passive ability you don’t need to monitor.

Personally I like banners the way they are, if i where to make a change it would be to apply a boon to everyone in the affected area when its planted depending on wich banner it is.

So I want to have a decent build that isn’t 100b and put this together last night.

http://www.guildhead.com/skill-calc#mMRzMM9cMRNgmMRNgmG0GaGVaMoMcV8khA7kiH7070c7kGs70V7ofD8ofY

I feel like the build has a lot of potential but it feels kinda squishy, I wouldn’t call it a glass cannon build but it doesn’t seem to hold up well to thieves (not that much dose but still).

Looking for suggestions on how I can make it better.

Edit: Messed up the traits give me a min.

Mk its correct now

Thieves have to much burst damage in general.

Mesmers have way to many built in, non stat related, defences (ranged, clones, stealth) and these really need to be toned down

Stealth in general is way to strong, sure you can “just aoe” but most builds simply don’t have the aoe to reliably catch a stealth player. Add to this that if the stealth player attacks and doesn’t actually hit anything they stay in stealth. Stealth is simply to forgiving and to easy to use even with some of the bugs it currently has.

Players can res downed players far to fast and to easily (particularly guardians)

Edit: oh yea, and bunker eles… just bunker eles….

I like it the way things are now. I don’t need the gold because nothing in spvp costs gold. Heck I barely spend my glory as it is.

The ability to buy bags and a few other stuffs I think is far more than enough.

So I purchased this game fairly recently and have spent the past month or so doing spvp in my free time (which admittedly isn’t very much). And have managed to reach rank twelve playing most classes (no real exp with necro or gaurd), and trying several specs for each. I’m not claiming to be some big shot pvp guru but I wanted to post how I feel so far about spvp balance.

Weakness:

As it stands I feel like weakness is both to strong and to weak at the exact same time. I feel like it pretty much screws over any and every build that doesn’t focus on crits or condition dmg while being almost useless against those builds at the same time. I would really like to see this buff changed to reduce ALL damage by 25% making it far more useful but not entirely over powered against non crit/condi builds.

Raid on the cappercorn – the cannon.

Unlike the -amazing- trebushe in battle for khylo (I know I’m probably not spelling the names right, forgive me for that). I feel like the cannon takes far more effort to actually use while at the same time giving a much smaller return. Consider buffing the aoe on the cannon and adding a knockdown effect. It shouldn’t be as strong as a trebushe but it should definitly be better than what it currently is. (also fixing whatever bug it is that rips you off the cannon when you need to turn it would be awesome).

Classes:

Thieves
I feel like thieves are just a little to overtuned atm. Mug dose way to much damage as a glass cannon usually critting for 4-5k (20%+ of most players hp in spvp) considering the very strong built in defenses of thieves (stealth) and their already very high very front loaded damage output thanks to their recourse system and none of their abilities having cd’s its questionable that a large gap closer that gives them an extra random ability should even be doing dmg to begin with. Overall I feel like the burst output is to high and mug would be a great place to start downwards adjustments.

Guardians
While I don’t have much experience playing guardians in spvp (as mentioned earlier) I wanted to address something that seems very game breaking in spvp. The ability for guardians to spec in such a way that they can revive a teammate faster than someone can execute them even without the downed player interrupting the execute. Yes I realize having the ability to do this entails sacrifices for the guardian however I don’t believe that them specing this way should disable the enemy teams ability to actually kill anyone on the guardians team.

Elementelist
Its becoming very common for ele’s to run bunker build which aparently makes it impossible for them to die. I can’t count the number of times ive seen an ele go 1v3 for a good 30 seconds or so before simply leaving with ride the lighting while no one can really do anything to prevent them. The healing seems to high as well as the damage reduction.

Warriors and Rangers:
Both of these professions feel like one trick ponys. While I actually happen to like the ranger toughnes/condi build (and tbh its probably a little to strong) its the only thing that’s viable. Some varity would go a very long way for thease guys. Same can be said for warriors who charge in blowing 3 cool downs and practically insta-gibing someone only to become virtually useless for the following 50 or so seconds. For warriors not only do other styles of play need to become more viable but this specific style of play needs to be broken, while this can be arguably fun to do it is NEVER fun to have happen to you. No one should be capable of practically insta-gibing people regardless of their setup.

Mesmers:
Of all the classes I feel like these guys are probably the strongest. For starters, its probably a problem on my end, but the targeting system of this game seems to never want to do what i tell it to do, I find myself mashing esc 5-8 times before my PC’s stop attacking and changing targets without tab is nearly impossible which hurts a LOT against mesmers since tab targeting seems to purposefully target clones over the real deal. Targeting issues aside I feel like mesmers can put out far to large a number of images far to quickly. Toning down image generation would likely go a long way to evening these guys out.

That pretty much sums it up at this point in time. Again these opinions are formed strictly from the point of view of spvp and formed from both having played these classes and fought against them.