Guild Wars 2

Entenkommando.5208:

1 dead “noob” leaded to 5 enemies alive.

If there only were players on the borders to see how this affects fights now…

That was changed recently to rallying only 1 now, right? So that is a reduction in “noobishness” by 80%.
Funny thing btw, if you watch public fights usually one of the first people dying will not be a nameless noob but somone with a well known guild tag .

The point is – in the past even when we had different guilds + publics on the map, they used to work together. Nowadays, guilds that are on the map and often do their “own thing” will get attacked as this is behaviour is seen as anti-social. Guilds with a good rep got no problem when they voice their interest to run on their own – often combined with a community agreement that a certain tag color equals a guild ran and should be left alone. Also, with a good rep people will ask for permission if the guild run is open or not if there is no public com and are willing to repsect the wishes of the guild if its closed.

So it`s up to you guild if your social skill is on par.

Most often you can also avoid that by choosing one member of the guild to run the public or show in other ways that you participate in the community.

Having a privat invisible tag just makes it even more comfortable to be not integrated in the community. We already nowadays got guild runs that do not tag, but once you got a big inc and the map commander knows there are enough people but he cannot see them – he knows a guild is running around and he sees that the guild is not interested to work with him – which again gets the guild a bad rep.
So I agree that an invisble guild tag is an exlcuding feature.

Yougottawanna.7420:

If you get your T3 keeps ram rushed before you can react you should’ve had a scout. You don’t need an overpowered gadget that makes long sieges even more boring than they already are. A scout, a gate treb, and half a brain were all you ever needed to stop a ram rush, but apparently that’s too hard.

Look at your suggestions. You want the attacking force to have to split up into several small groups, hit multiple gates at once, rotate reflections (which requires running several eles with weapon combinations that are bad for fighting), have havoc groups keeping the enemy starved for supply, and sit on catas/trebs for long periods of time.

You want attackers to do all that, but for you having a scout and a gate treb is too much work? You want to be able to not only stop a blob by yourself, you want to be able to do it without having to do anything hard. 15 badges and five silver for me, thirty golems for thee.

Disabler as it is now is overpowered. Disable or remove please, like the title says.

Lol, sorry i only read here occasionally. You must be either from sos or fa. Only two servers with timezones imbalance that would care.And Is this a game of who moves first?

Well, I can assure you on this.
I never implied that i did not do my homework as a defender or a scout. Ironically the one that made this thread knows this. I was simply pointing out what can be done from a offensive pov. Just because I did not include the deff actions those not mean they are not done. But I cannot count the times i lost stuff through zoom hacks/ac angles or a big blob simply overpowering the scout by causing massive lag and last but not least siege placement where deff cannot reach (which you obviously dont know about in the first place hence your argumentation). Or to put it another way….if its that easy to deff why does it worry you if i get one more gadget or not.

Look at sos,I just find it ironic that a server who wins the ppt game for 6 months straight by 100k lead is the first one making complains here. And on top by someone who has been absent from the game for a while and now worries in the other thread that gvg would die. Tell you what – it`s always easy to say you dont care for ppt if you have the nightcrew that get`s you the 100k win while all others sleep and then claim you dont care about it.

Simply balance out your populations on the timezones, learn how to play together with other groups, and you wont be having a problem with fights (or siege disablers)….or simply dont bother at all attacking and do your gvg.

p.s. might be me but loosk like onl na league are complaining? No probs on eu side.

Luvpie.8350:

Yougottawanna.7420:

The big change is that now attacking an upgraded keep that has any defenders inside is such a boring slog that no one wants to do it. A keep with 1700 supply means defenders can chain-disable siege for literally hours. In populated matchups they only get flipped during coverage dead zones. The net effect is to make the PPT game more boring, and the PPT game is already boring enough that a big chunk of hardcore players don’t care about it at all.

This hits the nail on the head…

No it does not. I know you have been absent from the game for a while….and it`s funny to read the whine but honestly, let`s raise the skill bar just a little itsy bit above ground and see how it works out (before the game dies anyway).

I have been a defender for so long and if you look at the many times a blob has brute forced t3 with 4-5 rams before we even could react considering fast build i think for the moment it is justified to let def be a little op.
While I agree as grave points out, that using a siege disabler can be abused both ways and this is surely true – the not surprising insight on my side is that i see a way higher intelligence level in the guys that deff versus the the blob in front of the gate how seems unable to put some brains in it and expect t3 to drop easily.

Have you tried one of the following:
- draining you objective with a few tier5 treb users (should not be an issue to come by them nowadays).
-running at least one main group and one distraction group who hits the objective from the other side
- spacing your siege (2 deffers….30+ blob cant space their siege so not all will bloked at once?)
- using reflection and protection your siege
-coordination to cause a distraction somewhere else on the map
- map awareness where you 3rd party on the map is (aka taking advantage of the enemy of the enemy)
- destroy a wall or multiple ones will drain supply quickly
- cut enemy supply into keeps
- using a siege disabler yourself

There is sure a few more but just straight out complaining wont do.
And last but not least, did you guys not always “we are here for the fights”. Well, I am on a deff server and that sure give me alot of fights when i can call in my own people to deff a tower where a 30+ blob stands outside (back turned stupidly to the inc and no scouters and stacking, nicely standing in the red circles of sup ac). If we spend 2 or 3 hours fighting around our keeps trying to maintain our objectives on the map versus multiple groups I can assure you everyone gets something out of it even if at the end of the run we loose a keep.

And if all does not help. Go for a 30 golem parade (happened on us today). You can still brute force but it wont come at a cheap price.

If you want karma runs go eotm.

Diru.4531:

A three-way versus just like it is now and on the current maps, but with each side being an alliance of up to 3 guilds with no world limitations. Match-ups could be suggested by anyone, agreed to by the leaders of the guilds involved and then voted on by everyone. The highest rated N matches getting locked in and scheduled.

What about pugs and roamers? The guilds in these match-ups aren’t always going to be there in force. They just need priority placement if the map gets queued. When there’s space available in the map, anyone should be able to pick (and be bound to for the match duration) an alliance to assist in the match.
As for points, it would be nice if they could be tied to the guilds and based on raid success and presence. If that veers to far from the existing code base then it could just be tied to the alliance. I’d much rather have good fights than a meaningful leader board.

Okay, the way i understand it you want spvp with a threeway, right? At the moment in spvp you can already invest in your own private maps where you got a limit of 20 players. That should be enough for any gvg on 90% of the cases.

I menton this because i find this kind of argumentation on your side very anti-social. In wvw in the past working together with everyone on the map seemed to be the way to go.
Some time now wvw has deteriorated very much in that area e.g. multiple guilds blocking maps during primetime to gvg but dont help the remaining few that actually play the map.
When my guildies are on we run maybe a 5er group because i am in a small group. When the map is played and we cooparte with other people/guilds on the map its fun to we deff or attack or divert, we get our fights and need no special game setting for this

So please with what you have in mind take it to extend spvp and not abuse wvw. My own server seems to have lost a lot of good people in the “play together scene” because of selfish guilds that force their gvg game mode onto others including tellling people lies so they leave the map and the guild can get its people in when there is a queue.

TheFragSoul.1987:

Really Werat ?? You used English support ? Cause i wrote a ticket yesterday, once isaw the advice, and i didn’t get any answer… Btw, i used French support…

Gonna try with english one. :/ Thank you

err…well, i gotta admit i used german support I guess i got someone with wonderful skills in hands on solution finding. But there is no harm in trying english if the french do not react. I mean, it was super quick. I kinda expected to wait at least a week for the reply so I think you dont need to worry too much if they are not reacting immidiately (maybe their french support went on holiday).

I was after all only posting to point out that there is a solution and one does not need to worry about not getting the tickets.

Really take that advice she has been giving on the first page. I wrote a ticket once i saw it in game. Anet transferred me back to my old server so I could pick up my chest. And asked me to write a second ticket so they would transfer me back which i did now.
Imho that was super fast reaction.

I guess that is the easiest solution and that not that many people transfer between na and eu.

thaooo.5320:

Shrouded.6450:

This T2 “project” was bound to fail from the get go. :p

It hasn’t failed, and isn’t failing, and it is showing no signs of failing.

Shrouded.6450:

A competitive WvW server needs a healthy balance of militias and guilds in order for it to be sustainable.

SOS and Mag have both. Both servers militia are happy here. Can’t comment on post season FA for obvious reasons.

I got 3 questions:
- which timezone do you play in?
- if you look at the timezone you play in do you still see the guilds and people that we had about a year ago playing when we “were doing not so well”?
- remember how many people showed up in t1 when we were matched against t1?

Basically I am not sure what you defend and am asking because there are a few people that are talking out of both sides of one`s mouth. I refrain usually from answering them as English is my 3rd language down the road. Nevertheless i realize this kind of twisted talk when i see it.
The original poster here is from sos and complained about “no one playing anymore”. Oceanics are saying themself that their timezone is dead (lol at all stacking on one server…); one of the oldest guilds just left sos and as a militia i can tell you i was not happy. But that might be a server thing. On sos i noticed a lot of people have the tendency to speak about others/timezones they dont play in.

You might as well tell me that that one year and a bit more in which we had to fight a 60+ mag blob in eu was not due to oceanics just hours ago papering their whole bl and that they were not here for revenge. What changed now is the meta and not that anything got better. Because NA would not be “in for the relaxed fights” if oceanics would not ppt for them.

Overall tho wvw has been dying for a long time now. Only i think na is getting worse way faster than eu.

azizul.8469:

this “better to lose” concept is working well with CD in the Silver League since week 4.

In which way? Cause as i understand it some servers are not playing for loose but rather accepting that they cant win and therefore play with a different mindest. It`s just relaxing into it but i dont understand this as tanking because there is no gain in it.

Also Chris, when did we decide they wanted to fight tc and therefore go t1? Wasnt it about balancing t2?As for vocal denial,afaik there was no vocal to turn guilds away but you can easily mail me those vocals. Some voiced concerns but the overall majority said " we wont turn you away" which just the same as saying yes in a veiled way (it`s like you have sex without protection and then you are suprised your wife is pregnant). You really think people that left sor on the downfall (like we were left) for sos make good additions?
Secondly, imbalance comes 2 servers fighting each other for the last spot while realizing that beating third is too hard due to imbalanced coverage. You think the 120k lead win on the first league match was healthy?

Lord Kuru.3685:

Reverence.6915:

Lord Kuru.3685:

iFruit.6190:

Why are people only now getting an understanding of the point system? Last week Far Shiverpeaks realized they could actually lose and not get penalized points-wise just to skip a match with Gandara. Most other servers that are tied for second place knew of this from the beginning and didn’t withstand unfair PPT wars every second week ^^

So was there a concerted effort to lose? And if so, was there any controversy within the server because of that? This kind of thing can really damage a server — which is why no one should be put into a situation where the incentive is to lose.

Tanking scores is incredibly easy and doesn’t have to be at the expense of casuals. All you need to do is to allow some structure to be capped by the enemy servers for tick, and karma train them. You aren’t getting points, your casuals get loot, open field fights still go on and everyone is happy

Almost inevitably, people will discuss the tanking in mapchat and that’ll lead to fights between those who want to tank and those who feel you should never tank.

And then you have people who get overzealous and start griefing their own server (waste supplies, build useless siege, the usual) to make sure they lose.

This all happened on NSP before Season 1. It damaged the server and it took quite a while to recover from that.

I am personally one of those people that think you should never tank. And that both ways. SOS tanked on the downfall from tier 1 to t4 on purpose while a few of us literally tried to run against windmills stopping this. Result: boring t4 matches for weeks on end and lost lots of good people that would have prefered t3 at least instead of the easy wins. It was for me one of the most upsetting moments and every since this time my connection to whatever goes and “speaks for sos” turns out very controversal.
Now SOS tanks in the other direction, by indirectly or directly stacking once again making t2 matches boring. In some way I feel sorry for mag and db cause i know how it is to sit on the other side of such a match just as well but nevertheless both server handle this way better than ours would likely do.

Now if we look at leagues – no matter my opinion- I think there are very few exceptions where you can actually pull of tanking on purpose if you got a solid community. Tanking in most cases includes the opportunistic development of getting somewhere where there is an easy win. As a result that server will attract opportunists an as a follow-up it becomes instable which is where i am for example very worried that sos might be there already. People that enjoy a challenge are not gonna like being in a match where the result is pre-definded or where the challenge is countered not by sportmanship but by stacking (a difference i noticed often na people cant make) and as a result once a difficult match turns up everyone but the few vanish.

The only real opportunity where a loose is better than a win is if you dont do it for points but for another “goal” that is overriding points. In my experience what quite often seems to work is some sort of revenge on a moral basis.
Otherwise it will indeed damage the server on a long time basis in which you not only use the solid people that play for the server but also the opportunists which leave once a better offer turns up.

bottom line: (some) sos is worried they might accidentaly slip into t1 but is also totally unwilling to “give away” (were it possible) part of their oceanic which actually directly and indirectly is the backbone of sos ppt.
Ironically the people that are trying to influence this are talking about timezones they don`t (rarely) play in and unclear definitions of balance (mos ppt tells you nothing about the gameplay on the map).

Iconoklast.2389:

Tbh most of SoS hasn’t been playing much this matchup because people don’t enjoy fighting siege. It’s good tactics to take our keeps quickly and then siege em up against us and can make for some tough fights but the average pug will just go back to champ farming :/

Because we got no active commanders and/or guilds that know how to deal with those “sort of tactics”?

Gahzirra.8639:

KCmilam.3476

Seeing players glitch into towers is one thing, but assuming they glitched because a door has full hp is not enough. Thieves will often wait out an attack on a tower, stealth in, remain until the zerg leaves, and wait out the timer on the keep lord. You’ll see them attacking the lord, but no glitch was involved and it is completely legal.

Did you not read anything we typed? You could sit in the tower see all 5 thieves below then watch them glitch up the side and they were in…we had to put an AC on that know glitch spot just to continuously rain arrows down. Each spot it was thru the known glitch areas always thieves cause they can do it…kill them and 1 min later they are right back in and its playing catch the glitch theif.

There was nothing legal about it, thief in front of you then boom he is suddenly inside.

The guild itself is unkown to me, but there are so many new tags running around you never know.

On the other hand, if you want matters equal, we had one mesmer from Y Die/Olaf glitch into our upgraded bl towers on purpose earlier in this match (another known glitch) and port in the whole zerg including tags of all sorts of guilds from sbi.
It was defended with a mortar and a treb and after they lost their siege they could not be bothered to resupply and retry i think, considering 2 other people glitched in as well and like anyone with moral playstyle jumped out again.

I sent the ss to anet but i doubt anything will happen in that case either.

Basically neither sos nor yak have any experience (shown so far) on taking defended stuff, especially upgraded, so they go for the weakest in their respective timeframes. It takes a lot more coordination and setups than just “staying on the commander” which is why people prefer those open fights so much more (and in case of a loss there`s always a mesmer to blame). I remember sbi having some good moves so i hope there will be something better at least from their side.

Kaga.7629:

Chris.3290:

You say BG can’t hack being in your shoes, then you ask them to get out of the way so you can use your better EU coverage to beat SoS….

Hahahahahahaahahah our “better” EU coverage. This guy.

I find that as amusing as you, but Chris likes to comment on timezones he never plays in.
Does mags still have that eu commander as your pillar of ppt? Afaik i remember the difference to us was that your early na farmed all the BL with a 60 blob and no resistance while our late aussie prefered to run ebg for yet another paper sm in the meanwhile. But yeah, matches gone pretty stale nowadays.

Dont get your panties in an bunch Nyx. I dont see where we disagree except that i do indeed count our karma train guilds (or rather commanders). If they pull 50 man and dominate the maps over several hours they are a force to be dealt with (or rather not, since karma is no hanky panky and such). Nevertheless all those that have been participating in it are also supporting it, maybe not direclty but indirectly. None of them stopped, none said anything, everyone was fine by it. As a result we had no fights whatsoever.
And i could recall a conversation at north camp our bl were people with well known tags insisted that we must karma with jq and that “this is what wvw is all about” last week. Incidentally followed by another one that we must face the jq blob with an equal blob with the same argument. I loled and logged.

maybe someone can point out who this jorgandalf is. He is a commander hogging eb since this match up and got just over a 1000 achievment points and i have been wondering if that is a bt player who came over with the needed funds. On second thought i would totally be not surprised if its one of ours with a second account. Apparently vh got back-up on the karma train support as well.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/268/zbi8.jpg/

is sor going to send a commander over as well?

Nyx Xox.3540:

LOL who what guild? Tell us please. Quit your kittening. You guys came to many guilds on SOS last week asking if we wanted to team up with you against BG. Get over yourself. As I’ve said the MAIN sos guilds have no deals and intend not to make one.

As i said in map-chat, almost all are running with the karma trainer and i think i saw also most tags including some of yours in there so you might ask you own guildies.

Dont you think its ironic that the many calls to use ts have lead to an advanced stage of karma train. Even if i wanted i could not go on ts because i cannot tolerate this kitten. The only thing this does on sos currently is that it upsets the wvw peeps and attracts farming guilds.
Also, the fact that no one dares to speak up against it and that our wvw base basically dont play and therefore seem to encourage farmers even more that what they are doing is right, isn`t really helping.

I could go back a few weeks and quote Man at Arms going that we lost ppl cause of the karma trains and no ts. Well, gg, now we have karma trains and ts.
Even if it gets me on ignore lists i will be happy once this weekend is over and we get stomped again.

DKNS.2135:

Doubt it’s intentional but could be because SoR is against two servers who hate it the most. And yes SoR did do the same during it’s days in T1 with SoS and JQ leading to the segregation of SoS.

It is intentional. i dont care for the sick psycho games of t1 but it aint good fighting in a 2v1. Atm its very boring to the point of embarrasing. Afaik on sos back then that caused big drama so what does it tell you about sos participating the same now?

What`s even more embarrasing is that people that could not be kitten d for months literally to help on sos or play together are now hugging for the achievement farm. You dont get ppl that do the orgath and delve and its still the usual round that does upgrades and kitten but now loads of scouts that check all holes and corners on sm for flipping. I will be bowing to my server if they are still there when the difficulty rises again….and we are still running most of the time in a serious situation even with superior numbers.

Titan.3472:

Grats SoS for kicking SoR from EB and taking their keep, very impressive work !

Its a silly thing considering there seems to be some deal from some parts to 2v1 against sor which i dont approve but get told that sor would do the same given the chance. And our farming crowd is always up for stuff like. If sor had wanted they could have wiped our eternal corner out of the way but everyone is hung up on the sm flipping.
Once the weekend has ended the world will look quite different again.

RedOwl.7496:

But how do you get SOS to understand that whether they come in 5th or 6th, it doesn’t matter?

Or maybe they have delusions of grandeur and actually think they have some chance at being in the top 3. Maybe they are so delusional they they think #1 is attainable.

Just not getting how they think teaming with JQ accomplishes anything other than winning this week’s match…which gains them exactly what?

I doubt there has been any joint stuff with JQ that SOS started. JQ tried pushing for the karma train and whoever was with them did the circle. This included sos commanders as well as mags ones.
On the matter of wins you might wanna look at the league table. This league works like a football match in terms of points which means that if jq gets a few more matches against sor/bt and looses they might as well fall lower simply due to getting only 1 point out of the match.

gebrechen.5643:

Why would you want to “solo roam” in a team oriented game environment? Most people you find running solo are thieves or players running back to their zerg.
So you basically do nothing but running the map from north to south and back.
If you really find another roamer it’s a thief with a 95% possibility and you don’t even get a good fight.

hm …“guilds solo roam” on jq in a team oriented game environment?

i roam on the mesmer,mostly to tickle that bl buff of you; want me to tell you how often 1 jq morphes into 4 or 5? I wonder if there is someone getting paid for holding up the buff.
You know, nichts wird so heiß gegessen wie`s gekocht wird, but out of all the t1 servers you guys are the only ones that made in the past attempts on recruiting in such a blunt way and in some way this makes you also more unlikable (make yourself a name on jq eh? the german forum was amusing) .
We all know moving has become part of the game but its still a question on how you do it (and defend it). What i see on jq is that you are attracting people that are maybe upset in their current position, true dat. But if you would ask the rest of the server, those people also often think themself better than everyone else on their current server (or the kind of players that want to win and have issues to loose for example). Its not everyone on jq and as to my knowledge parts of sor and bt are no different but to the outside it sure seems a lot jq involved.
Also, interesting counterpart, most guilds looking for a challenge transfer down the ladder not up.

A good example was our last match. You had everyone on lock-down and were still on the forum whining why we were not fighting.
But be it as it is. Here is a challenge for you: try to take our upgraded stuff for once the normal way withouth golems, without poor pvdooring with 40 people because “you can”. Because it`s sure making it difficult to offer ours something to learn from if this is all you bring on and it sure adds to the overall consensus of numbers being everything. Do you have any idea how hard it is to beat that thought out of people again and stop them from copying your crowds?

well, lucky that weekend is over soon. Expected more but now we seem to do an advanced version of the karma kitten (hurray with ts).
Its very tiring and dissapointing when your own people cheer when you loose upgraded stuff and supply yaks, upgrades and siege are foreign words to commanders and players alike.
I got no idea what happened but memory keeps on tellling me it was not that bad last week.

Asudementio.8526:

If the TC scrubs were really so bad you should have kept the keep; stop making excuses for your own failings. There have been plenty of good fights i’ve been a part of this week already and all you are doing is tarnishing what could be a matchup with meaningful experiences.

I think we are talking about different things. You resorted to 10 omegas and waiting on purpose until our commander was somewhere else during our weakest time.
Its a valid strategy ofc and out of all servers I have seen tc use it quite often. It just shows that you could not take the keep when it was defended and had to wait with your blob until there was a moment of distraction on our side. Just on the attempt before you lost what…another 4 omega build sites. Dunno how much it was overall but i guess that was big investment overall on your side.
It`s a meaningful experience, true dat. We will improve on the scouting part some more.
Btw, about the pot calling the kettle, i am not sure if oceanics resort to things like this but my answer would be the same to my own side if they were.

I got no idea who is frustrated here. I only pointing out number you see when you awake. So if you are an oceanic defender maybe we should meet up and have a nice chat some time in the future. I`d throw in some coffee and cake or a meat pie for dinner. There`s a big difference between being in bed when you loose to a big blob vs. being actually there trying to defend it….for several months now, some a lot longer.
Been doing it for a long time so no probs on my side. Was only amused because in the past we used to loose this to mags. Guess tc just gets up earlier.

Asudementio.8526:

Werat.7063:

Asudementio.8526:

T3 garri omnomnom.

You sure you talked that through with mags? Usually they get first dips on our garri when no one`s home. I hope that`s not gonna get you in trouble…

But there were people home, enough to man a lot of that siege we destroyed.

@aceai.4895

Anytime! <3

so you say so you say, 5 vs 50? Usually you guys turn up with a 60 man zerg during our downtime hours and if nothing helps pvdoor the reinforced gate. I remember last we met you spent an hour headbashing on our keep and had we actually bothered to port in supply you would still be standing at there.

Asudementio.8526:

T3 garri omnomnom.

You sure you talked that through with mags? Usually they get first dips on our garri when no one`s home. I hope that`s not gonna get you in trouble…

Zenyatoo.4059:

T1 trolling tactics: A brief guide
step 1. Give a server that doesnt want to be given gold league get gold league
step 2. Push a server out of gold who does want to be in gold
step 3. Constantly chase down and eradicate one server until they give up
step 4. ?
step 5. Profit!

I doubt that.
first: you cant controll your pugs; they will flatten everything regardless of what you might want nevermind the queue for taking that last red spot on the map (a bit needy there, arent`t you).
secondly: see how long it takes until your big boys get bored and you gotta deal with the backlash of that
thirdly: i dont see profit but if you are one of those people that can`t loose i can see where the rabbit runs

“If you wait by the river long enough, the bodies of your enemies will float by.”

Zenyatoo.4059:

I’m thinking that this was probably said sarcastically, but the strange thing I’ve noticed is that it’s actually true – we (SBI) seem to do better against SoR when we run in smaller groups. At least in my limited experience. I’m not sure why this is, but I theorize that we have a hard time against your battle hardened zerg when it is ZvZ.. And you easily destroy our zerg when it is omniblob vs omniblob..

But once we split into smaller groups, we can “accomplish” more on the map, so that even if individual groups still get crushed, other groups can accomplish “something.” And then improving morale for that moment/etc.

I don’t know if any other SBI’ers noticed this, but I think we should actually practice this as a strategy, to the degree possible.

This is very true and I have seen SBI running several groups to the point where you managed to split sor`s blob to a size one can handle (i think so because you did not loose your keep). It`s pretty impressive.
If you are running several groups you are going to seperate the guilds from the blob since they they will need to retract.
But on sos i get a feeling that many see this as a ppt play. Not all is about open field headbashing to see who has the bigger and some is always about trying to trick the enemy and trying to outplay them.
The problem in this is teaching people to be of aware of a few standard situations so you dont have to tell them every time.
I used to loose whole upgraded bl not because we did not have the numbers but because our zerg got stuck on eb and 99% of commanders did prio taking that paper tower in eb or defending paper sm over bl while knowing full well that bl was under attack. And using teampeak did not change that either. There is a point I simply gave up. (P.S. thank you jq for buying them, one problem solved now)
The same with those that want to go open fight. A lot of siege is maybe there but simply not used ( to actually support the front-line group) because no one want to do it and they rather run into the big blob that is currently taking one of our towers or standing on the battlements watching while our walls/gates get downed by a bit of siege instead of suicide killing the siege. Its always a bit strange if you get told by your front commander he wanted treb dots and not hits and you dont dare him that the 2 trebs next to you are not even used. Same goes for supply awareness or treb help or simply running that 10 men group to the enemy keep to pull them of yours.
But yeah, there is learning potential.

Le Rooster.8715:

We in SoS are not tanking.

Define “we”. You know there are some of our people going around asking us to to do exactly that, right?
Who is tanking and who not i am not discussing. But i know the crowd is definitly smaller. I am taking that as a sign that we have shook off of the karma farmers to some degree and getting lots of practice in doing last stands.

Depends on what you see at stake or define as good fights/fun. SBI and Mags are playing for a different reason than sos. Out of the 3 sos is the only one that plays a different meta because it is in effect an Australian servers. Luvpie is not asking ours Aussies to destack either. Cant blame them for wanting to play together. The drawback is that it has an direct effect on na which realizes itself in eu primtime and na afterwards.

Any server that basically faces our ocenics gets everything flattened expcet t1 servers. Then their na force wakes up, sees everything in whatever color sos play with and the enemy na morning karma train starts on retaking it. It has been that way literally on all servers we played against that were 10 or better to the point where i have an 80 mag blob standing in front of the gate. Against that the tc zerg with 60 was moderate.

This is why sos has imho problems recruiting. Because it takes a certain stressresistent mindset in such an environment and some more. Compared to my old servers where lots of events were done in wvw for pve -player we are also still far away from utilizing the big pve player base.
So at the moment, oceanics get provided with good fights and they are learning and improving greatly and whereas in the past i was hesistant because of all this pressure it creates on the other timezones, i am quite happy now for them having fun, and i know on equal numbers we are up to par with any other server.

Nice effect is that we cleared most of the fairyweathers off the table and it has never been that relaxed on the map. The only people i see panicking if you ingore our forum warriors, are the farmers and pve people to the point where we get people in la spamming reminders not to wvw this week.

No matter how this ends. Gold league will hurt t1 (its no suprise people like Fuzzion advertising gettings mags up in gold cause they would provide more fights). And if you compare strategies, i saw darkheaven put more moves on the table than any t1 so far.

I dont know. So far what hurts T1 servers the most are blow-out matches. Looking up from the bottom of the lake to the top is a lot more relaxing when you are not the server having to provide battles to the masses where as we have the opportunities at every corner (sometimes even getting aggro of the whole enemy zerg, desperate for a fight). The match against jq hurt jq more than us and the only strategy was numbers.

Do this a few times and you will see t1 destacking. Only the vision of having that big t1 fight is keeping that structure alive. And t1 is constantly loosing people as well, more maybe than the lower servers.

Chris.3290:

We aren’t speaking as much to defensive specialists like yourself, but people who want to zerg up and follow commanders in the open field.
Those kind of fights require coordination and a willingness to play as a team. That means clicking on a program and listening in while you are doing these activities and you can turn it right off if you want to do something else.

Folks running uplevelled at the front of the zerg, with no TS up and running….it just ain’t cricket!

Play how you want, but a lot of us care about the experience for everyone on the server and voicecomms is a tool to improve that.

GvG? Sorry you lost me there. It will always happen that you have uplevels or such with you. That is the way with militia. You will never be able to convert the whole world. You could of course assign another commander to pull the pugs while everyone on ts would follow your commander and you dont need to tag up. Problem solved on at 99% scale. I wonder tho, how is such an interest attracting small scale guilds if in the ends you are mashing into a big blob like t1.

You think defense requires no coordination (considering we are dealing with a lot harder circumstances than just a few uplevels….preferable a dedicated tc who drains our supply everytime before an inc…no its not an indcident tc, its happening everday now)? Thanks for the flowers i do love you too but as said I was on ts. So much for small group play.

Equinox.4195:

Chris.3290:

Equinox.4195:

If anyone’s out there on DB or SoS, could you recap some stuff? Haha

oh so witty laughs behind white gloves.

forum rules prevent me from giving my standard reply to such comments; though it could be considered in historical context that I quote our last Vice-President.

Just want to karma train a bit, man. Relax a little

Give them some room. After you flattened our stuff with you omega golem rush (okay, we got sloppy on the scouting but we do this with 10 people, try to match that) you kept downing all tries of a retake.
Be lucky our bl commaner feed you some.

Also Chris, have i overlooked you on the map? I have not seen you on. Dont get me wrong but the last time i got onto ts i had a nice listening of how everyone not on it is a noob. Bite me as you wish on weekends, but with attitue like this and that here showing no understanding or tolerance of a point of view of someone else i rather be the noob that hears when the enemy starts killing our canons and outer siege without getting the keep contested. I am not a ts or voip or whatever enemy but how about you guys try to come to terms that not everything is black and white. Especially considering what you guys are looking into atm regarding need.
Feel free to involve the people with a different perspective.I got no issue going onto ts again.I have been with you guys before. But just listening to “push push, pull, push back” is not really that interesting for me. I dont hold a grudge or something. Its just a rational thougth….just saying.

p.s. almost forgot: hearty wishes to the tc (not your raging kiddies but the other ones ) that did not only the small but althought big scale battles with us. Was really nice. If only db would have been a little bit more on the uphill drift this would have been even more interesting.

Sovereign.1093:

Hehe, for the dragonite ore >3<

My ideal way of fighting would be all three servers are at a stalemate in each bl having held their own third and are fighting in the nodes.

And same with eb – and trying to gain victory in taking smc. A three way royal rumble.

Dont get me wrong but originally i thought if the codex of farming would apply here, then you would not bother our keep or garri. The return on investment vs time invested is pretty bad from this point of view. Could have flipped dozen other things in the meantime.
There is 2 things i know tho. First, we could have probably kept up that headbashing up endlessly by porting in supply and second, at least in the eb keep we were on a low with people. I dont need equal numbers to mob the floor with the pugs you bring in. Same probably applies for you with ours. And CERN`s been saving yours a few times.
But we really need the practice of beating the kitten out of a zerg once gates are down so all fine.

I see you are one of those open field advocates. You might understand I am not but i also do not believe in the need for equal numbers. I do think that defense and offense should work together as they are the same side of a coin. And it takes a lot more skill navigating sub-groups, main zerg and defense than just offence (particular the mass blob)and killing our opposition by stacking on a certain role like warriors or guardians. This is why servers like to stack and why defense is never appreciated. Its far easier stacking than actually wading through the slump of setting up a working orga (and by that i dont mean assigning just a big guild to bl) where different guilds and different roles work together, nevermind the different personalities involved.
I dont say i am against open field fights. They happen and i like them as well and i am not down-rating good exectued flanks, portal bombs, diversions, divides etc, but advocting open -field is the one and only is not something i buy. At least not until anet clears off all keeps/towers etc from the field.

There is a time for everything, the karma,the play, the open field.
If tc wants to fight on equal basis feel free to spread in your primetimes. That`s in your power. But as said, on a dominating server there is always that one that wants to rule them all. Nevertheless thanks for the fun provided. I always like a challenge.

Sovereign.1093:

SOS defense reminds me of Greed from Full Metal Alchemist. The ultimate shield.

Interesting btw. Goes well with the headbanging style your tc zerg provides. No worries, we are learning. Nevertheless i would like to ask if you could maybe please push that stand-off at our eb keep to na primetime for once instead of lunch time so the na crew actually can enjoy this for once too.

grave of hearts.7830:

Luvpie.8350:

Ahka.6705:

Luvpie.8350:

@ TC tonight during 5-8 pm pst. Good fights but then you guys grab all orbs… Was it not more fun with orbs spread out?

We were saying the same on Mumble. The buffs weren’t needed. The ruins are fun, but the buffs tend to favor the wrong team.

Yep. Please try to relay as much as possible to your pugs not to grab all 3 orbs. Really takes the fun out of trying to play.

And here i could swear i saw Pinkies holding them and not pugs.
Must had seen wrong.

Same as earlier in the day. When in one of those down-times our usual suspects tried to start the karma train since tc was by behaviour indicating they wanted one. Ours were a little bit slow on the start and after ql and langor went to bravost while tc was still busy at langor. Of course one guild had to go and detach from langor to kill the group at bravost. That stopped that.
Alright with me, as far as tc does not moan about it. Like with jq, there is always that one guild that wants the lock-down apparently.

Seasniffer.1763:

http://emboldcreative.net/jedquarry.gif

Summary of this weeks matchup.

Really?
Please repalce jq with a sumo ringer and we might get a more reality like picture. Hopefully you will not one day suddenly crash through the floor due to weight issues.

Chris.3290:

I know a lot of people who are dreading the weeks of tedium if we end up in Silver.

Please keep in mind, that with all things going on, a league run will only be 7 weeks no matter where SOS ends up. We decided to go t4 back then and got stuck in it for a far longer time. It did not improve gameplay. Going against higher server gives some people opportunities to improve (certainly my trebbing practices have been heaven with a jq zerg every 30 mins on the gate) but most people dont want to tbh.
As i see it if we go up aussie pt will be happy, if we go down na pt will be happy.

In the end, even if i sometimes kitten on some of the arguements some commanders bring forward on justifying the karma train, i have basically given up on some things including guilds. I am not sure if more guilds will improve sos. Maybe.
I wish our na good luck on it since some have talked about orgainsation and working together…something i think i have argued for in the past. But i have yet to see the roamers/pugs/guilds/scouts work together. And despite always having been with defense I have yet to see a commander reach out to us or to any of the small old guilds that have always been on sos but are never mentioned. It`s funny and sad when at the same time you read commander complaints about the lack of scouts.

Well, i dont like mags (and that evil morning train i get to fight every time)but it seems they just have more of a “we” feeling. If they get in, i wish them a good internet connection and a lot less lag than I have with jq atm.

Bottom line: let the random roll luck decide.

Eternum.1706:

grave of hearts.7830:

Eternum.1706:

This matchup is so boring ):

Where are you FA and SoS?

Why are you even asking where FA is when there isnt a momment that JQ attacks SoS without FA hitting from the other side?

Edit: Heck fa now preffered to lose 2 towers to jq than detach its zerg from a paper ogrewatch.
Need i say more?

I see you’ve figured out the design of the Borderlands maps.

Care to follow up on this? That joke must have gone over my head. When i was on yesterday jq as well as fa only managed to take ow when it was totally undefended. Our fault, alright. But even when you timed it with jq attacking mendons you lost out against 5 defending ow…but no worries jq did as well.

If we only get 5% of our zerg with knowledge to adopt a tower you`d have to bring a lot more than just numbers and warriors hitting 1 in the skill lag on the table.

See this is why i let the neighbour`s kids play for me this week (after they did math homework ofc). They go all giddy with pleasure because of all the golems and even tried to sit on a canon for a while in hopes of one turning up from the enemy side. If they did not wander off every few minutes just to come back and figure out their are dead we would probably have a few less mag golems (also i understand this does not even dent the blueprint armys so its all fine). Watching from the background tho i am happy i am not playing this week with all the pro skills flying around.

ExVoodoo.7586:

Slow down there tiger. I’m not sure about you, but no more than 5 minutes ago we were hitting SoS bay. We had 8 people and SoS had 10 defending and they were hugging their walls all day even built a few AC’s themselves. Wouldn’t even come out and play. >:

I guess them getting smoked earlier at ruins in a 4v5 would discourage anyone from trying to fight.

dont forget to mention the catas and trebs you build. Just saying.

Also the siege you see is there like most stuff to support na a little bit. It`s not like the golem rushes are any high skill in this game no matter who does them. It`s not like you guys knock to announce yourself to force a “fight” either.

Le Rooster.8715:

What i mean is our NA usually performs exceptionally well and doesn’t fairweather unlike many other servers (take a look at us facing some tougher matches you will find our relative strength quite consistent). all i meant is we are lacking in the numbers department this week and i’m pretty sure it’s because people are taking breaks because it’s an easy win. Hopefully next week when we get a tougher match our numbers will return which i’m sure it will we usually rise to the occasion.

err, so now…sorry, gotta deny you now the place of hero of the week kinda (also maybe not, a sudden increase of upgraded stuff and wp have been reported, also the new pve content might come in handy). We got enough people on the server, and i have said it like a hundred times its not only a numbers games (except maybe t1/t2, and its more the lag thats killing). Ever since I joined and we went down it was “we are not motivated”, “it`s an easy win dont bother”, “we will loose anyway, dont bother”, “oceanics will get it, dont bother” and if all fails “we dont have the numbers, dont bother”.
But on those occassions when na forgets about all that and actually work togehter they are very good. Also, on the pro -side, the number of times someone called a keep lost and we kept it anyway has increased. You got commanders on the map sometimes that are incredible good at working together with everyone, na have some as well but they are still rare. So what you are not lacking is people it`s leadership distributed on a lot more shoulders and not just a few, no matter if you play 20 mins or 2 hours.

Also, might i remind you kindly of the whining after weeks against t2/t1 matches (while ironically we had no problem destroying sbi for 10 weeks in a row in the old system)

Le Rooster.8715:

if only our oceanic force could replace our NA force and show you guys how it’s done.
In all honesty i have no idea why our NA is performing so badly this week, maybe they are taking a break or maybe because of other reasons usually we would have a queue in at least 1 bl during NA time today we couldn’t do anything because Yak’s had us outnumbered in our own borderlands.

oh, i know the reasons. Like Forzani said, na dont bother cause you guys will get it. It`s a great excuse even tho this match-up (being balanced for na time) would offer quite a few opportunities to actually do something to improve play game besides zerging. The problem is, there seems no motivation at all to improve. If it were not for other servers like these in this match-up it would give me an eye-brow raising impression of na.
.
But anyway, if you get oceanics and the zerg of pvgolemdoor to actually only once siege up that whole place while on it (it gives xp after all, i would even willing to chip in some stacks of siege blueprints) I will probably kiss your feet, take everything back i ever said about oceanics only karma training and being scared of ac and beg Ana to put a heart -shaped picture of you on the forum frontpage.
How about it? ^.^
So far its interesting that the further the match moves along now, the faster yaks and dh are taking over. While in the last few days we still had sm when i logged after you guys, now even sm (nevermind the wp) are gone.

elkirin.8534:

I thank both YB and DH for bringing the fun this week. I think SoS has played servers ranked 1-15 in the last few months and I see very little difference between individual player skill levels.

I would ask gamers to consider ignoring the troll/hate posters who drop in now and then, IMHO it is better to just deny them the attention they seek.

Maybe not between individual player skills but between servers one gotta admit both dh and yaks are better oganized than sos. And as opposed to sos – who will just wait for oceanics to turn up – i have seen quite a few impressive moves from dh.
Also, yaks had a wp in hills on sos bl ….a thing sos had not managed to do.

Of course the undefended borderland will be more tempting to karma train regardless of the hate for magswag… Meanwhile in EB its the reverse.

This is very true. If Yaks had the chance they would take the undefended bl as well if they had the power. As does SOS and Mags. Only the time shifts are different.
None is better than the other. It`s been ages when I have seen a run on a borderland where the enemy actually went there with the intention of actually allowing the other side to show up to defend for real fights…instead of just pvdooring.

There is absolutly no skill in golem rushing an undended bl but still everyone does it. On SOS it is afaik even activly promoted (the same as we will sacrify t3 towers just to pvdoor at the other end of eb), so i would not take the attacks on yak bl to heart.

In the olde age karma train was for the day before reset, now its done everyday. So much for overall sever morale standing.

Phedre Scion.1520:

There are many of us that try to tell the group not to spawn camp. I think you are seeing the result of many weeks of being the stomped group.

I doubt that.

tyvm, happens when you go on vacation while anet patches :P
all the more reason to kill yaks now ; )

JakobGW.5730:

Luvpie.8350:

So we bunker down the camps so you great players don’t deny our upgrading keeps supply. If you can’t understand a simple concept like upgrading camps/keeps eh.

I just wanted to point out something here. Did you realize that by “bunkering” down a supply camp, forcing the roamers to kill your yaks and not flipping the supply camp actually hurts your server? A havoc team, killing each dolyak each time it leaves a spawn (if there are two), will earn between 6 – 12 points per 15 minutes. When you “bunker” down the camp and fail to protect your dolyaks, you earn 5 points per 15 minutes. Ya’ll didn’t leave your camps to even fight 3 little ol’ CD enemies, let alone protect any yaks traveling. Your yaks never made it to their destination (thus upgrades were null), you earned less points than the enemy for that camp, and you hid behind siege when you outnumbered any threat.

Do you understand that simple concept?

Err…no. I might have misunderstod that but are you comparing ppt with wxp? I was not aware that killing yaks adds ppt.
If people bunker down for wxp you are totally right, its lower regarding wxp.
But what does it hurt me weather you have more wxp than me?
What indeed hurts me is the killed yaks for upgrades but we have always been bad protecting yaks, nothing new there.
Still, denying enemies access to a supply camp is valid and I doubt you would be hanging around for all yaks all the time.

Lakord.7435:

Chris.3290:

Lakord.7435:

SoS: You have the numbers.

I understand your talk of crayons by this statement, obviously you need to update your eyeglasses prescription.

Fun fact, did you know SoS had outmanned buff for the first 30 minutes tonight? Don’t roll up with your huge zergs and say we have the numbers.

To give TC credit though, we haven’t seen those big zergs as much tonight. Perhaps the rest of TC hates reruns as much as everyone else and are off playing other games because ArenaNet insists on poisoning the well.

SoS is listed as a Full server. Now, I could be wrong, but that would mean you have numbers. So, if you have numbers, but can’t get them to come out and play. Do something about it.

I like you. It really like you
looking forward to this match-up
Been saying this ever since we went down but a lot of people just think its easier to recruit from outside than working with the inside (reminds me of companies where consultants started running the business because own people were ignore).
Also, way too many people play for ppt and win intead of good fights and got no respect for the enemy.

dear,

Read the old match-up threads. No matter how you look at it there is a certain server representation in this match up that definitly does it way more than the others. Especially when it comes to fully upgraded towers.
Speaking frankly, even if you take the assumption that you get some on every server and i am agreeing that they dont represent the whole server, sos in this match-up realistically does not even need to bother. In any case we can simply wait for oceanics. Still, my experience has been a different one regarding those things. The enemy turned up with 6 golems, true, but almost never doing the nasty. If we dont adress it we accept it and it becomes “normal” and pugs will start running with those since they dont know in the first place.
But as someone said already, one week to go and things will change hopefully (and maybe some things get fixed as well). No use in getting worked up about it now.