But we’ll probably get something that grants a bonus to Deceptions, and it will likely be more useful to thieves than it is for us.
Haha. What about Deception recharge on stealth or +15% crit damage on Ambushes?
I’m hoping for a useful Rune for Deceptions but somewhat doubt it. If the effect wasn’t gated by an ICD Jaunt will be a problem, not even considering the higher CDs on Thieves. I feel that a Vigor or on Evade Rune is more likely.
We want fast hands because it’s integral to warrior gameplay, which is the whole reason traits were made baseline in the first place. The most egregious example would be Illusionary Persona from mesmer, a grandmaster tier trait, being made baseline because it was so core to the mesmer gameplay to be able to panic shatter without any clones. As long as fast hands exists in discipline every warrior build practically mandates the discipline tree, as evidenced by i dunno, the last 5 years of warrior pvp builds.
While being a Mesmer – so people are likely to be triggered by my opinion – I’d like to point a pretty significant difference here: The core mechanic of Mesmers was invalidated completely when not having Illusions available. This was and still is the case very very frequently especially in large scale fights or in PvP/WvW where Illusions’ health remains low and Mesmers still have to incorporate some traits and/or skills to maintain a sufficient Illusion generation in many scenarios. Making IP baseline was a bandaid for that. We are talking about baseline viability and effecitiveness of a class mechanic.
Looking at Warrior, on one hand, I agree that Fast-Hands is a very powerful trait which most builds can benefit from – especially in a PvP scenario where flexibility is key. On the other hand, it is far from being mandatory for utilizing, for example, Burst skills. It just obviously makes them more accessible due to not-shared cooldowns. Most rotations (and I’m not talking smashing F1 as often as possible or raid benchmarks) can be performed without Fast-Hands even though admittedly sometimes at a slower pace.
People like to argue that this makes certain rotations unviable but that’s not true. They’re just less efficient (so maybe not meta) – not not effective at all. If this actually was the case one should discuss a specific rotation, not making Fast-Hands baseline. That’s also why I personally don’t share the opinion that Warriors were build around Fast-Hands. It is an ability which in this form is unique to Warriors but certainly is not an integral part to playing the class. I believe we would be less likely arguing this if Burst skills had shared cooldowns or Adrenal gain was slower but the skills themselves were more meaningful. The discussion about Fast-Hands is not about class and skill/mechanic viability or effectiveness but efficiency – and maybe a bit about convience.
To expand on that: Spellbreaker is less dependend on Fast-Hands than core Warrior or Berserker due to Full Counter not varying based on your weapon. Smart move by ANet and probably should have been done smiliarly for Berserker.
But I guess many Warrior mains don’t like SB. I’m for my part am looking forward to it.
Done. Discarded the 100 word limit as an illusion. Silly Gaile.
Posted by: Xaylin.1860
Tight limit. Won’t be able to make it. Not even remotely. Please have a look at the respective class forums. There is very great detailed feedback on their.
Overall, I like all eSpecs. Performance-wise…
Holosmith, Deadeye and Scource felt the most complete – but all of them were overtuned numberwise in some aspects. One more specific note on the Holosmith: Too few synergies with baseline traits and Sword feels very underwhelming when compared to Photon Forge.
The More Balanced
Firebrand, Soulbeast, Spellbreaker and Renegade felt the most balanced. Coming from a Mesmer I really enjoyed the Spellbreaker but some people seem not to get it’s niche and less ‘Bam, into your face!’ than baseline Warrior. The Renegade offers traits with great synergies while I’m not too exited about the Legend itself. The utilities are unique but I don’t like them being spirits and their visuals just fall short when compared to Shortbow.
More detailed feedback on Firebrand and Soulbeast.
- Axe: Pretty animations. #2 feels a bit too slow.
- Traits: Overall fine. Weighty Terms feels too much like Wrath of Justice. Stoic Demeanor feels a bit underhwelming for a GM trait.
- Tomes: Look interesting. Could have a slightly faster activition time. F2 needs at least better scaling with healing power. Cooldowns feel a bit too long.
- Mantras: Look interesting. Could need a wider cone and maybe slightly longer range. I disagree with others, though, that a 600 range or AoE is needed.
Firebrand offers some nice new things but needs some polish.
- Dagger: Okay but boring on its own. Feels like it requires specific traits to shine. The charge mechanic on a weapon skills is an interesting new option for skills.
- Traits: Are very versatile which I like. Other people seem to miss focuson them, though. Some traits could need slight buffs (number tweaking).
- Beastmode: Pretty cool mechanic. Aura seems a bit too flashy. I wished we had a bit more diverse animations based on your pet. No pet swap while in Beastmode feels like a bandaid to force players out of it which I dislike.
- Stances: All seem to serve a purpose. Looking forward to wether sharing them actually is worthit.
Looks pretty exciting while it doesn’t offer any new role per se.
- Axe: Okay, but condi is not my thing. Needs some polish.
- Traits: Have potential but some are blant or just plain garbage… Hello, Mirage Mantle and Speed of Sand! Additionally, Infinite Horizon kind of feels like an integral part of the identity of Mirage.
- Mirage Cloak: Nice idea, I personally like it. We somewhat lack additional sources of Endurance, though.
- Mirage Mirror: Nice idea but badly executed. Way too complicated to utilize for rather average results.
- Ambush attacks: Too weak and too limited access (e.g. why solely gained through MC and not stealth as well?). Desperately need a buff.
- Deceptions: Quite some redundancy among Jaunt, Mirage Advance and Illusionary Ambush.
While I really enjoy this kind of playstyle the Mirage currently hardly adds much more than new shiny animations to a playstyle Mesmers already got. I feel that this spec needs the most work when looking at traits, special mechanics and overall performance.
- Sword: Dang, that AA is slow. Regarding the range, yeah. It’s melee. Get over it. The other skills looked nice.
- Traits: The traits look rather boring on paper but I feel the major issue is that people aren’t used to playing Weaver yet. They clearly are meant to offer sustainability. In the end the numbers might have to be crunched.
- Double Attunements: Certainly different than baseline and Overcharges.
- Stances: I like them. Some people complain about Unravel or similar not being baseline. I feel they do add temporal versatility (Unravel = Baseline Elementalist, [Edit] I meant Weave Self = lower CD without Arcane) which however aren’t integral to the Weaver.
Personally, I like the concept. But I’m just not too good at playing Elementalist so I’ll probably have a hard time playing Weaver.
(edited by Xaylin.1860)
If you’re forced to stay in close-range and you don’t have mobility or some kind of self-defense, the build will not work. It’s a very basic concept that applies to every class, and the class in question being guardians doesn’t suddenly make that concept disappear. The firebrand keeps you in close-range even more so than a normal guardian (because of tomes), except with DH you actually have significant self-defense (and more range, and more mobility) and with the core guardian you have intant-cast virtues, which make a surprising amount of difference. The firebrand gives you almost melee-range tomes that make you a sitting duck unless you’re at long-range, at which point you can’t do anything because tomes aren’t ranged weapons anymore.
To get this out of the way: I’m aware you’re kinda disappointed with Tomes not being ranged. That’s fine. But jeeee… If you don’t want something to work…
Most of the survivability DH has over FB comes from their Virtues – where FB quite obviously is more support oriented. That’s it. Don’t even start with LB which few to no (condi) DH’s use. Sure, FB is probably worse solo than DH. But that’s not what we are discussing here, or is it? Tomes do need some polish but they do work. They are pretty great especially in group fights and there are plenty ways to make sure you can get them off. New ones (Mantras) and old ones (Meditations and Shouts).
The thing which maybe baffles me the most: Especially in large scale content people were fine with 600 range on their lootstick for ages. And suddenly Tomes aren’t viable because of their range.
Guardian was already a profession with limited mobility, and they dropped a purely melee spec on top of that, without any compensation.
You don’t get compensated for additions. Just… why does that need to be mentioned?
At least one sane person…
I think it is safe to say that you’re not supposed to be able to stay in Photon Forge too long. But just wondering… did you also use Elixir R?
I’d say it depends on your non-meta group composition.
Glint provides boon duration which is much more useful since they recently nerfed boon duration food. Also, the heal is great and on demand boons are always convenient (but less needed in raids, I guess?). The traits – from my point of view – are mediocre at best. The only noteworthy one for Ventari is Bolstered Fortification when spamming your #5 in Ventari (pairs nicely with Blinding Truths in Salvation). But you probably want to safe Energy for Alacrity.
Kalla has useful and unique buffs but I don’t like their drawbacks (stationary + killable). I see her strength in the F-skills – F3 can keep Alacrity up when not in Ventari – and the Fury-centered traits (Blood Fury, Endless Emnity and Brutal Momentum). Those basically buff any kind of damage (power + condi) and synergize very well with Invocation which is great for Ventari anyway. If you don’t care for Invocation you could also run a condi setup with Corruption + Mallyx to complement Ventari with Resistance.
So it’s actually like the devs said in the stream. Glint is more defensive support while Kalla provides offensive support. Neither of them innately support a healing build or Ventari.
You miss the point I was making. Firebrand is entirely melee focused, when guardian is not. So, the mobility is not worse, but the necessity for mobility is higher.
How is this going to be a reasonable comparison if you’re taking 5 traitlines and x weapons versus ONE elite specialization?
If the necessity was higher, what is wrong with taking the respective utilities or weapons which are already available? Again, what you seem to be asking is to have the mobility be included in the Firebrand.
How is this a downside of the Firebrand rather than baseline Guardian? It is a trade-off when compared to DH. It is not a limitation when compared to core Guardian because Firebrand got access to just the same stuff. Instead of saying ‘Those additional skills require me to be close… I need mobility.’ why not say ‘I got more options when being close!’?
If you’re looking for a mobile class Guardian just isn’t the thing. Firebrand obviously doesn’t change this. However, gaining more close combat capabilities doesn’t innately dictate the necessity for more mobility.
It’s also about sacrifice vs reward. Firebrand doesn’t reward you with superior damage or superior support if you manage to pull it off.
The healing of F2 on its own sucks. I think nobody is arguing that. But beside that Firebrand does offer support baseline Guardian doesn’t offer. Wether it will be enough will have to be seen.
It competes with both guardian and DH at its own game, let alone other specs that don’t have the same limitations. Hence my druid comparison.
So in the end you just don’t feel that Firebrand is enough of an ‘upgrade’ when compared to core Guardian? I guess I personally just disagree.
Regarding Druid: It does have ‘limitations’ – although I feel that ‘trade-offs’ is a less misleading term. Just not in the areas you’ve mentioned. But sure… there are many elite specs which offer more benefits than trade-offs. I’m quite happy that this has partly changed since HoT launch.
The means that were nerfed? That you said they were necessary to be nerfed?
Do you think other classes spam 1 for their condi output? They have other utilities and profession mechanics that apply conditions, too.
As for how necessary the nerf was, if the devs couldn’t balance a new mechanic like Tome of Justice based on the existing parameters the class sets, it just shows their incompetence.
I said that I think F1 was nerfed because of Tomes, not because of Axe. Because it doesn’t offer too many conditions while there are classes which do apply a major amount of their conditions through weapons.
Condi bombs with F1 + Loremaster obviously were going to be an issue with Permeating Wrath. They had two options here. A fire Tome with lackluster Burning which requires you to also trait Virtues to be somewhat sufficent. Or nerfing core Guardian to make a more sufficient fire Tome and giving Firebrand a more defined identity. They decided for the latter. Notably, they left Radiance alone – smart move, because Virtues clearly got enough other synergies with Firebrand anyway.
Now, you call this incompetence. Sure, maybe there could have been a different solution. Wether the effort for such solution could be justified is a different topic. However, I feel that they picked a reasonable and straightforward solution this time. It’s not like they salvaged a whole traitline (‘cough’ Acrobatics). And it’s not like they totally wrecked baseline condition Guard.
There’s a huge range difference, especially with DH. DH gives access to our only 1200 range weapon, and F1 is another tool to help you keep your opponent in range. […]
…and worse than druid that has both mobility as base ranger, has range on Celestial Avatar and another 1200 dash+evade on staff. As for our damage, core burn guardian can keep up.
For the first paragraph we’re not talking about mobility, though, aren’t we? We are talking about range. Let’s leave aside how many DHs actually do not use Longbow, we still got Scepter. It’s not 900 but it’s the next best thing. And again: It’s the same core Guardian got. No sacrifice to be made here.
If you want to keep it Firebrand only: Axe does have a pull. It might not be as sexy as DH F1. But seriously, people… If we are start arguing something like this it becomes an ‘I want it all!’ discussion.
My point remains: The mobility isn’t worse than core and core does just fine frontline. Neither is the range. Therefore, I don’t really get that Druid argument. It’s like you are arguing that Soulbeast healing is supbar to Druid, not Ranger vs. Soulbeast.
I personally do see Firebrand offering something new and different options to play Guardian. Maybe you don’t? Or maybe that’s not what we are talking about? I feel like you are looking more for a ‘Spec A always is best for X’ and ‘B is always best for Y’ scenario? I can see how Firebrand is not satisfying that mindset.
Only that they nerfed the condi output of all our weapons by nerfing the VoJ passive. At that point, if you are to use another weapon, base guardian is better for condi, and DH is better for power.
Yeah, they did. But it was kind of necessary due to F1 Tome and really is nothing new. Similar stuff happened to other classes. It simply is needed for balance even though people like to make it about gating skills or pay to win. Needless to say that the devs miserably failed on the balance part for the HoT launch…
Regarding Axe I’m not too suprised it is not the revelation of condition weapons some people were hoping for. It can’t be too efficient when it comes to condi application because Guardians – in contrast to most other classes – are designed to apply their condition(s) through other means. I mainly see it as a way to get some damaging cover conditions.
Wether core Guardian is better for condi (assuming Radiance + Virtues) than Firebrand… I doubt they will be too different overall but there will be differences depending on the game mode. I imagine core condi Guardian (or DH) being more suitable for solo or 1vs1 scenarios while Firebrand surpassing it in group scenarios. That would be a reasonable trade-off.
How about Essence of Speed makes Quickness 50% more effective?
That would be a much better effect than the current version, but you would still need to run quickness in your build.
Dagger 3, Zephyrs Speed, QZ, Live Fast, Sigil of Agility etc… OR, you know, when playing with a chrono or firebrand.
It might be the least versatile Master trait… but it sure is sexy with traited Sword.
It’s a base heal of 182 I believe. However, what makes the trait good is that it has no ICD and triggers per stack of poison.
Take the trap Viper’s Nest for example. Each second the trap is active, it deals 3 stacks of poison to up to 5 enemies. You will siphon health three times from each of the five enemies. 3×5 = 15, 15×182 = 2730 HP gained per second.
That is an optimistic scenario, provided we assume five targets will stay in the AoE long enough. Nonetheless, it shows it’s potential, and it works on every skill which causes poison.
Then you can use Whirling Defenses to finish the poison field as well.
It’s a decent trait, but soulbeast needs another way to apply poison. Unless you build
around poison completely, it’s lacklustre and situational. Moving Fresh Reinforsement to a minor and then adding a trait that applies poison to Adept would improve the spec and give synergy imo.
Honestly, I think the trait from the start should’ve worked with every condition. To compensate, Nerf it’s lifesteal by ~50%. That right there would be a kitten good trait that is super useful for condition builds and remains somewhat useful for power.
Predator’s Cunning works much better on power or even hybrid builds than Parasitic Contagion, though. Because it is ‘on application’ rather than based on your stats. That’s something I like about Soulbeast: It’s very versatile and the traits can be useful for almost any playstyle.
Shield #4 has 600 range and is a wider cone, Mantras are 300. I don’t see the point of your argument, if mantras had the same hitbox as shield #4 they would be fine, but they don’t, they are half that.
Sure, the range is different, I’ll give you that. But people are complaining about ‘I have to turn around, that’s just not right!’ just as much. That’s just silly. The mechanic is the same.
It’s not mid-range either, it’s full melee range with no defences or mobility. And they are not rewarded in any way for putting themselves at risk.
Maybe I wasn’t clear here. I was talking about playing in a mid-range position. Not about mid-range range. If that makes sense? Playing mid-range doesn’t necessarily mean all your skills have to be 450 – 600 range. You can drop in and out. Even without blinks if it’s not an A chases B situation. By foot.
The mobility of Firebrands is brought up quite frequently and I really don’t get it. You – I think it was you – made a very reasonable post showing off the subpar healing values for F2. Let’s do the same for mobility. Firebrand vs. Core Guardian: No difference. Firebrand vs. DH: Wings of Resolve. That’s it!
If you feel you lack mobility, take Meditations and/or Sword.
I did like the suggestion I read somewhere about giving Mantra of Flame a short Blink, though. Not 600 or longer, mind you. But 450 range could work. The Flame Burst just feels like a second offensive vehicle to transport the Immobilze provided by the Mantra trait.
Axe is 130 range so the only teammates you hit are dagger players when they stack in you. Every other meele is behind you.
So you need to turn around or attack the enemy from the back lonely.
Almost all melee weapons are at 130 range. People make it sound like this is an unbearable situation on frequent occasions (on all classes) but it never kept melee weapons from being relevant. Using a melee weapon doesn’t automatically mean you are the first in line in large scale. And in small scale it doesn’t mean you can’t turn around or about face.
If you don’t like the Axe or feel it is undertuned, fair point. There might have to be adjustments. But good news for you: It is not the only weapon a Firebrand has access to. It’s the same on the Warrior forum where people get stuck on not liking Daggers while neglecting all the other weapons they already got.
Well they did delete Venom Might stacking completely from Core Thief so they could give Deadeye a better version of it as well as whatever Peripheral Vision wants to do. It’s pretty good support for allies. …
Plus Fire for Effect. It’s a lot of fun with Sword + X for PvE. I’m pooping out boons left and right without trying too hard. It feels much more fluent than Venoms (or self-only Signets) and has close to no ramp up time for 25 stacks party-wide Might plus the boons from the random stolen skills.
I’m not seeing it being too exciting for PvP or roaming (at least not Periphal Vision). But it could work for large scale WvW (not talking Flame Gun or harassing stragglers) when paired with, for example, Invigorating Precision and some party back up.
I’m not a big fan of the Legend itself (the utilities, I don’t mind the lore discussion about Bow vs. GS on Kalla too much) but the F-skills and traits are just awesome and very versatile.
My favourite parts about the spec:
- Synergy between Brutal Momentum, Endless Emnity and Roiling Mists. Works well for both condition and power builds.
- F3 with or without Ventari for Alacrity support.
What I’d like:
- Overall CDs slightly reduced
- Traits that recharge Virtues should at least reduce the CD of Tomes when triggered.
- Stowing Tomes reduces the recharge by 5-10% per spare page by default.
- The AA should not cost a page or pages have to slowly regenerate.
- Increase the healing coefficients of F2 – not the base healing.
Those would be huge quality of life changes from my point of view which don’t include reworking the whole mechanic.
All the arguing about range on Tomes and Mantras: It’s a design choice, really. Saying those don’t work att all is like saying Shield #4 has no application in the game. It just isn’t true. And as others said: Making Mantras AoE or too long ranged would harm Shouts. The effects are just fine and some are pretty powerful.
Firebrand obviously wasn’t designed to be a full range caster – even though it would have fit the theme of Tomes, no debate there – nor to be the one leading the charge. It is best somewhere inbetween. You either like it or you don’t.
Coming from a Mesmer, I personally enjoy the Spellbreaker even though it might be more appealing for PvP and WvW. For PvE, I really like the synergy between Magebane Tether since I dislike using GS just for Might stacking. This set up is way more flexible. Probably not going to turn out to be meta but certainly usable.
Accidently posted my feedback here and don’t want to repost it.
Long post short: I do like the concept but it is pretty rough around the edges and many numbers are undertuned. Additionally, some mechanics or traits should be changed/improved to make the spec more appealing to non-condition Mesmers.
Time for some feedback.
I personally enjoy the playstyle of the Mirage considering I never liked shatter builds too much and prefer a more thiefy way of playing Mesmers. Since interrupt builds haven’t been that feasable for a longer time this feels very refreshing.
So yeah, I do like the approach to the spec. However, many things are very clunky or simply undertuned. And while Mirage is obviously more condition focussed the alternatives to condi feel pretty lackluster. Furthermore, it doesn’t seem to cater any new ‘role’ as long as the damage isn’t there.
Just for reference: I mainly played PvP with Sw/Sw and Staff and either Dom/Duel/Mir or Duel/Chaos/Mir with a power focus. I ended up running mostly baseline utilities (Mirror, Blink, MoR, MoP and Jaunt). I enjoyed it although the damage didn’t feel that great. Hardly meta-material but viable.
I guess it is supposed to be Mirage Cloak and Ambush. I personally like Mirage Cloak but it hardly makes a specialization. It sometimes feels like Daredevil without the GM traits or not enough Endurance. Like others said, I feel that Infinite Horizon is the ‘real’ new mechanic and should be baseline to the spec (meaning: Minor trait).
Ambushs, again, are great in concept but poor in execution. The frame for Ambush attacks got to at least be 3s to not result in brainless #1 smashing. Additionally, many attacks have too long cast times. Even worse, the power based ones are either not working with traits (e.g. Sword with interrupt or on daze traits) or they are just garbage like the one for GS. The power based attack desperately need a review.
Honorable mention: Mirrors. I hate ‘to collect’ stuff in GW2. It’s a pitty those are such a great source for Mirror Cloak but I guess you can’t have it all. However: Those need waaay longer durations.
Two things to add:
- Phantasms should as well gain some benefit from Mirage cloak. I have seen people mention Alacrity for the Phantasms. 1s reduced recharge for their attack when cloaked would work as well.
- Ambush attacks should be available on stealth just like on Thieves. This would increase the synergy with the base class and lessen the disconnect between already existing traits and skills and the Mirage.
I don’t like conditions too much so I didn’t test it too extensively. As others mentioned: The concept is nice. But it needs some adjustments.
Okay but needs a lower CD or better healing.
Not my cup of tea and has trouble with terrain. But I can see its appeal.
Illusionary Ambush and Mirage Advance
As others mentioned, the redundancy is pretty large especially when also taking Jaunt into account. My suggestion: Scrap Mirage Advance. Illusionary Ambush becomes instant but with a reduced range of 900 and places you closer to your target. Castable retreat like MA but without Endurance gain.
Sand Through Glass
Can’t compete with other Stunbreaks this way. Might need a cooldown reduction or Mirrors have to be improved. I’m also torn on wether I’d like the Mirror at my original position or at the end of the evade.
Really not sure. Too sleep deprived.
This desperately needs an increased range of at least 600. I’d also like to see it be a bit more defensive considering we got Crystal Sands and Illusionary Ambush. I think removing the damaging portion and adding the blind from Mirage Advance plus increasing the number of cleansed conditions to 2 would make it way more versatile.
Not much to say. Speed of Sand should be merged with this.
Too situational. What about increased cooldown recovery when affected by Vigor and regaining x Endurance when using a Deception (ICD so Jaunt can’t be abused)?
Default option. Okay in my book. Doesn’t list Poison. An oversight?
Riddle of Sand
Considering I’m not into condi Mesmers pretty uninteresting. But I guess it’s okay especially when paired with Scepter and Illusions.
Only benefits condition builds. Make it Expertise or add Power.
Shards of Glass
This feels way too difficult to utilize appropriately. Why not actually make Mirrors useful and, for example, make them pulse something to allies while not broken or make them absorb (so there is still a difference to Duelling and Glamours) projectiles while not broken.
Personally, I find the duration of the protection somewhat insulting. Make it grant a reasonable benefit when attacked while affected by Mirage Cloak or make it Blind and Weaken foes for a short period of time when the cloak expires. Or: Grant yourself and nearby allies 1s of Blurr when Mirage Cloak expires (ICD). Or: Distortion has a reduced cooldown and is recharged for small amount everytime you gain Mirage Cloak.
Okay by me.
Speed of Sand
This should never ever be a seperate trait, it is ridiculous. It clearly is placed here to make up for the missing distance from the new dodge. So, add it to Mirage Cloak. Put Infinite Horizon here.
A bit blant but gets the job done. I used it in the end because Infinite Horizon doesn’t really do much for power builds.
Feels okay but didn’t test it too extensively.
Speed of Sand (new)
Vigor on you is more effective and lasts longer. Gain Swiftness when you gain Vigor.
[Edit]: Whoups… Meant to post it into the feedback thread.
(edited by Xaylin.1860)
Which every other class can do better and/or more reliable.
Yeah… sure… not. First, this simply isn’t even remotely true. There are some classes which are good at providing specific boons. Others certainly aren’t. Second, Thief wasn’t good at it before but now can be when not going down the sniper route.
But I guess it is easier to see the bad if other stuff with potential doesn’t float ones boat, eh?
I’m not much into sniping so I didn’t look into that so far. But am I seriously the only one interested in the amount of Might and other boons Deadeye can provide regardless of weapon choice?
Sure… it’s not unique. But it certainly is something Thieves couldn’t do before.
I personally like the on charge effects and I don’t miss Harmonious Mantras. But I wished we’d still have a meaningful Mantra trait. Restorative Mantras harldy counts as that. Additionally, Duelling now is the only traitline without a trait associated to a utility group. Not that this is bad per se. But it feels off.
How neat would it be if Jaunt also worked like Axe3, detargets and moves all illusions to closest enemy. Then even power builds could use it.
Nah. Sword #3 please…
Imagine if sword 3 detargets you from all opponents, forces your targeted opponent to retarget the clone and gives the clone 1s blur on spawning. :o
Maybe a bit crazy but kitten that would be sweet.
Detarget is a mirage thing and should stay that way, but sword 3 definitely should gain the ability to retarget illusions.
I guess I was a bit sleepy. I indeed meant the retarget part not the detarget part. Would just make so much sense for this skill and would help baseline Mesmer a lot.
How neat would it be if Jaunt also worked like Axe3, detargets and moves all illusions to closest enemy. Then even power builds could use it.
Nah. Sword #3 please…
And mantra of resolve got buffed to 3 condition cleansed?
This will be a good skill to take for mesmers who don’t take inspiration.
So… what about Menders Purity? Cast a “Lesser Mantra of Resolve”? I doubt they will buff it up to 3 conditions cleansed. It’s already way too convenient.
Mirage looks so cool…
I’m not a condi fan but I love the playstyle. Maybe it’s even viable with Sword… we’ll see.
The more you talk, the more you prove you don’t know a thing about Mesmers. I just pity your pugs.
In the same breath, you say Honor is fine, but picking 1 single trait in a trait line you’d be normally using is an “investment”.
This is a joke.
You probably should reread the part about picking a trait and the related investment. You listed options on other classes which aren’t any better or feasible while making them sound oh so great. Ultimatively, your whole rant boils down to not liking Retreat + PoV (or Staff) – presumably because it doesn’t fit your dream build – even though it is perfectly fine as is. In contrast to you, me, the pitty pug can live with the hardship of making choices.
As I said, if anything, we should discuss (new) options aside from something centered around Retreat. But sure… go on throwing a tantrum. I can take it in my blissful ignorance.
(edited by Xaylin.1860)
The duration is long enough to make skipping possible, but short enough to not be absolutely brainless. Saying only 2 options is pretty misleading, when every signet use, and summoning a phantasm every 18 seconds, triggers it.
It is not misleading because all other options make it rather unreliable when it comes to avoiding damage spikes or saving someones life – unless it is heavily telegraphed. Which basically only applies to certain PvE and boss encounters. Which is why it isn’t too attractive in other scenarios.
18s? Meaning traited for the gods and perma Alacrity I guess? You sure pick convenient set ups when trying to make an argument for your point of view.
It’s used in raids extensively.
I’m aware of the raid meta. That’s one game mode…
As I said: If it was better it would be used more extensively. Gamewide. It gets even more obvious when realizing that people just started using it – even though Signets didn’t receive any buffs at that time – after everything else on Chrono was nerfed.
(edited by Xaylin.1860)
I don’t think invulnerability should be this accesible. I think mesmer should get a nerf on how often they can share distort. Having a class make 5 people skip mechanics on a 5s cooldown is game-warping. Having that class be the only one that can do it is just terrible design.
It is a 1s Distortion whereas you got only two options to instantly trigger it. This is a pretty significant draw back… Sure, the cooldown on the trait is low. But if it was that great way more people would run it.
Really? How are guardians options more attractive in pve? Honor, Retreat and the staff are all but useless in that game mode.
Meanwhile, mesmer already uses Focus and SoI in their regualr builds. Ele’s Air traitline is amazing, it comes with a minor trait for +25%, and since they already use Glyph as their selfish heal of choice, they can just change from Aeromancer’s Training/Tempest Defense to Inscription when they want swiftness. Necromancer already uses Soul Reaping, so they just change 1 trait, and Spectral Walk is a much better skill than Retreat.
You are literally wrong about all of them, except warrior. And even for warrior, I would rather change skills and weapons than mess with my traitlines.
Am I? You make it sound like taking Honor is that aweful. It is not. Sure, no damage modifiers yadda yadda. But in scenarios where you aim for them you don’t need perma Swiftness anyway.
Retreat + Pure of Voice is very flexible when it comes to creating builds. Removing conditions and being able to more frequently negate a fatal blow on your party is never useless. You don’t even need Staff for that.
Meanwhile, you suggestion is picking a Glyph plus the related trait to get perma Swiftness. Why would any Elementalist ever make such an investment? You said it yourself: There is a way less expensive Minor for movement speed. However, what about all the Elementalists not picking Air? Why is Air okay, but Honor isn’t? Why is it okay for other classes to switch traits or utilities, but it is too much of a bother on Guardian?
Mesmers regularly picking Focus? When? Where? I’m not talking meta build but even on none meta this is debatable. You won’t want SoI on your bar unless you are playing boonshare or a Distortion build which both usually are only used in game modes where you don’t need them for the Swiftness to begin with.
Why is it okay for a Necro to pick Spectral Mastery and Spectral Walk? Although the trait competes with one which is pretty important for your shroud? While not getting perma Swiftness? How is this okay, while it is not for Guardians? And why is this set up better although it doesn’t offer any group utility? Since we ar at it: How do you feel about two other mobility options being stuck in the same traitline while WH will put you in combat all the time?
My point being: This is a very subjective discussion. However, ‘mathematically’ Retreat + Pure Voice or boon duration isn’t any worse than options on other classes. Maybe you don’t like this option. But again, that’s subjective. Focus + SoI (Mes), Spectral Walk + Spectral Mastery (Nec), WH + weapon trait (War) etc. are not universally better.
Your issue seems to be that you don’t want to pick Honor for movement speed. That’s a fair point. It’s also a fair point that other classes might have more options. However, it doesn’t mean that they are more attractive in general. And it doesn’t mean that Retreat sucks and needs to be buffed. It just doesn’t suit you.
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Ah, I see. I guess you’re right about that.
To be honest… I still feel Well of Precognition could easily be unnerfed. All it needed probably was a CD increase. The reason why it got nerfed was the amount of survivability and utility Chronomancer brought at launch. Which includes quickness rezzes and unnerfed Alacrity. This is long gone.
Regarding Guardin I got to agree, that Invulernability when Aegis is destroyed would be a bit too convenient. Because it would be triggered when you actually need it. A more reasonable suggestion would be Invulnerability when applying Aegis since it at least requires some effort.
However, even this could be too strong. We got to remember Communal Defenses and that Mace/Sh or Fc is already pretty durable.
… Necro wells (which are now usable underwater, but only as PBAoE).
This always makes me so sad…
But yeah… Glint and Jalis should work with some light tweaking. They probably just ran out of time and never bothered again. The spear makes it even more obvious.
Having scepter mainhand always means 20% faster casts for everything (including recharging the mantra).
Uh… It actually works that way? Didn’t know that…
The block on the shield is great for surviving and generating phantasms (and combined with chronophantasma and persistence of memory, that means faster recharge on iMage who’s actually one of the most damaging parts of the build). I also find Tides of Time very handy when fighting thieves.
I played with Sw/Sw last season because I was sick of Chronomancer and won’t touch condi for PvP either. It got a lot better with the added evade on block. Most people don’t seem to have internalized this change. I even dared playing without Illusion (Dom/Duel/Chaos or Duel/Chaos/Ill). I felt I was more versatile when picking Domination (mainly do to Shattered Concentration), but the low cooldowns with Illusions were pretty fun.
That being said, playtime and muscle memory wise I’m more of a casual and the build probably wasn’t meta enough to carry anyone. Enjoyed playing it regardless.
When ever an aegis shatters, a unicorn flies out and poops a bomb for aoe damage.
Make it happen Karl.
Add: Everyone without at least one pink armour piece instantly dies.
Funny thing is that OP’s suggestion would actually be a mesmer buff.
It’s aweful on Mesmers because they can’t trait Aegis. It’s that easy.
Ideas I like:
- Stacking Aegis. However: Scared people might want stacking Blind as well. Might need a cap as low as 3-5 or something like that.
- Gain Protection when Aegis expires/is destroyed. Why not?
Elementalist has perma-swiftness with Glyph of Elemental Harmony (air attune) + the Glyph trait. Necromancer does the same with Spectral Walk + the Spectral trait. Mesmer does it with Signet of Inspiration + focus’ Temporal Curtain. Warrior makes a slightly bigger investment, using the Signet of Rage elite + warhorn’s Charge.
Besides the generic gearing options, guardian can maintain swiftness by having 3 things, Retreat, Pure of Voice and the staff. My change reduces that to 2, so you don’t have to dedicate your build into going faster.
What the… how do you feel those are justifiable options when complaining about the options Guardians have?
Yes, Guardians lack a passive perma-speed trait or utility. But the options we got in combination with Retreat are way more attractive and less situational than the options you’ve listed above. By the way, Runes of the Pack + Retreat work out nicely as well.
I’m not against additional options. For example, Zeal could offer mobility with some trait reworks. But I just don’t see how the options we currently have are lacking. If anything, Retreat needs a buff not related to Swiftness.
Please don’t take away my loot wave. I love it combined with traited F1.
For Staff suggestions (mentioned similar stuff elsewhere):
- Make AA heal for a small amount when your ally is affected by Might. Wouldn’t be too overpowered and required at least some work to function. However, I feel that Mace should be the go to for close combat healing.
- Blast finisher on #2.2 would be great. If that’s too much, a Blind on the orb would be very helpful as well and give the Staff some more soft CC/defense.
- #3 should move with the Guardian or get the Temporal Curtain treatment as mentioned above. We know they got the tec for moving fields and it makes sense for Symbol of Swiftness.
- The trait needs to be reworked and boon duration put somewhere else. As I see it, they could easily merge Empowering Might with Honorable Staff. The trait on its own is more of a filler since even with heavy investment in boon duration it’s rather underwhelming. Plus, merging it would marry well with my AA suggestion.
I agree. The additional boon duration shouldn’t be tied to Staff.
Axes are quite frequently associated with Ferocity in GW2. Even on Guardian (s. Retributive Armor). So maybe it’s referring to that instead of the weapon itself.
I didn’t even realize that was an axe until you mentioned it. That makes sense, although I’m not sure if it’s actually the case since ferocity in a condition or support build doesn’t seem too helpful. Either way, as you implied, it’s probably damage related.
Yeah, Ferocity doesn’t make too much sense when assuming a class suitable for the seraph combo. But sure… could just be something damage or Precision (which would fit seraph) related. The other icon which comes close to it is for Pure of Heart but I’d say it’s just by coincidence.
Adept – Flying diamond thing: At first I couldn’t tell what this was a picture of, but it’s definitely a picture of the diamond-shaped initiative-like resource next to tomes. So it’s most certainly a trait for generating whatever that resource is.
Or a flying book. Not that this made more sense. Accio tome!
Master – Hand: No idea. I suppose hands are usually associated with utility. Perhaps it has something to do with weapon/tome swapping or quickness?
I’d associate it with ‘lay on hands’. So either supportive, healing, or removing something.
Master – Axe and silhouette: Another axe related trait possibly? I suspect otherwise since there’s already an axe trait in the spec’s master traits.
Axes are quite frequently associated with Ferocity in GW2. Even on Guardian (s. Retributive Armor). So maybe it’s referring to that instead of the weapon itself.
Grandmaster – Crown: Not sure. The symbolism isn’t really used anywhere else afaik. It could be an aura since crowns are obviously associated with leadership.
It reminded me of the personality system. Can’t really draw any functionality from it. But the traits name could be ‘Noble…’, ‘Honorable…’ or ‘Dignified …’ sth.
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For Med Kit I’d still want something more like https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Med-Kit/first#post6142479.
Some comments on other suggestions:
-Now a blast finisher
-CD increased to 20s from 18s
I’d rather see the Confusion being removed and Concussion Bomb Daze enemies for 1-2s. Yeah, boohoo, condi Engi nerf. But we still need a better distinction between Grenades and Bombs and I hate that Bomb Kit is more about AA for Power while just rotating through 2-4 for Condi. I’m also not a big fan of Shrapnel because it clearly favours Grenades but oh well…
Additionally, I’d reduce the Burning on #2 and instead make it pulse more frequently to increase the physical damage and Vulnerability application.
-Evasive Powder Keg CD reduced to 5s
-Aim Assisted Rocket is now a blast finisher
-Thermobaric Detonation CD reduced to 5s
A blast finisher on AAR is nice but you won’t be able to control it. Additionally, the bigger issue I got with Explosives when it comes to blast finishers is that EPK forces you to sacrifice a dodge plus TD competing with Siege Rounds which also provides a blast finisher.
I’d rather see EPK being removed/reworked and do something completely different. Maybe strip Boons or whatever.
-Soothing Detonation reworked.
-Now creates water field blast finishers when blasting non-water fields.
-Blasting a water field increases your outgoing healing by 10% for 10s.
Besides adding the outgoing healing you didn’t really change much?
-Medical Dispersion Field
-Now also creates a water field that follows you for 2s when starting a heal skill. Has a CD of 10s.
-Radius of 360
This just turns all heals into pseudo Healing Turrets. I’d rather see the value of the shared healing increased to a more reasonable amount.
Since we’re at it… Bunker Down should lose those bandages. It’s just weird. Maybe add a very short amount of Protection (1s) if within the blast radius?
-Stimulant Supplier reworked.
-Re-introduce Acidic Elixirs
-Elixirs become unblockable, removes boons when they land, and have larger radius.
-Boons removed: 2
-Radius increase from 180 to 360.
Yet another Elixir trait? Why?
-No longer applies vulnerability. Converts Protection boons into vulnerability from enemies instead.
This sounds very cool!
AA and BF are mainhand skills, they have nothing to do with offhand weapon skills.
I’m aware of that but, of course, they do have to do with each other. Most classic dual whielded weapons were initially designed as pairs which still is quite apparent when looking at (partly reworked) weapon traits.
I’m not saying that this has always been successful on ANets part or that they can’t be combined in other ways. But it’s a very obvious design decision they made. Even if this wasn’t the case, how would you evaluate a melee OH without taking the only melee MH into account?
My personal opinion on Sword OH is that there has never (or at least very rarely, e.g. #4.2 interrupt) been a good reason to play it close combat in the past. In this context, the new attack feels counterintuitive. I’d rather have an at least medium range attack.
I mean Veil technically would make sense as a deception skill for mirage. I guess they will balance it out somehow if at least one of the new utilities ends up having a stealth aspect and phantasm casts do help with that balance.
Since they gave up on Glamours (compared to Wells) and Manipulations (AT, Mimic) a while ago, I’ll just hope for the best. I really enjoy evasive Duelist-ish gameplay but we don’t really have the appropriate utilities to properly do so.
So I welcome an actual melee attack on an offhand weapon, especially since it didn’t really change one of our pre-existing attacks. But it is definitely an odd skill nonetheless.
We alread got AA and BF as melee attacks. And I doubt the current bonus is worth it to get into melee range for. Having to be in 130 range just makes it unecessarily hard to benefit.
Sure, the range on Torch isn’t great either, but considering Prestige Torch is way more close combat than OH Sword already (#4 = 900 range, #5 = 1200 range). Personally, I’d rather make sure I don’t get interrupted when casting my iSwordsman or get a nice combo leap finisher out of it.
That happened right before HoT, when the trait system was reworked.
Prior to that, both spirit weapons and turrets had multiple traits, now they only get 1. But minions have multiple traits, and got more support with the addition of “Rise”.
So, yes, they are set differently, but that’s because it was a deliberate decision on anet’s part to push minions as a core component of Necromancer, while spirit weapons were left to gather dust.
I wasn’t talking about having more than 1 trait or the HoT trait rework. I was talking about the available traits clearly proposing different playstyles or what they provide to the class. When you look at it that way, Gyros are the closest to Spirit weapons.
And of course, it’s a decision ANet made. What isn’t.
It seems to be a given that Phantasm skills are supposed to reveal us nowadays. So no reason to discuss that. I don’t have an opinion on underwater weapons, either. Torch, Focus and Staff are fine in my book. But the other Phantasms need to be adressed.
- Sword OH isn’t that much of a melee weapon so the attack is a bit weird. Not going to discuss the Might. But I feel a frontal/diagonal slash which causes a wave that removes boons from enemies in front of you (think GS#5 but a bit smaller) would be way more appropriate and can also justify it not dealing damage. It would also cater Sword MH AA.
- GS#4 needs its damage to be increased, or the applied stacks of Vulnerability has to be bigger. Regardless, it has to last significantly longer. I also feel that it doesn’t need a projectile and the damage could be dealt by the whirl when casting instead.
- Pistol#4. Please… it’s a bad joke. At least make it a fast(er) projectile which bounces and also applies Slow (e.g. more time to interrupt stuff). And when we’re add it: Add something useful to #5 instead of 1 stack of Confusion. Chill. Cripple. Slow. Weakness. Make a pick.
All summons should be permanent until killed, like minions are.
Really got to disagree with this. Minions are just set up too differently (traits etc.).
Personally, I feel that Spirit Weapons could easily be reworked to work similar to Gyros. Not that those are the optimal solution but that’s more due to them being AIs as well. However, considering Engineers got Toolbelt skills, Spirit Weapons probably should be more of a mixture of Gyros and Spirits.
Example for a rework:
- Reduce the cooldowns (s. Gyros + Spirits)
- Remove the AA
- Rework the trait
- Spirit weapons are reworked to work like Gyros (pulse or on cast effect). Summoning them grants you a command skill which can be triggered until they expire.
Example for new the trait
- Summoning Spirit weapons grants you x (e.g. Boon). Spirit weapons blind and burn nearby foes when destroyed (synergy with Binding Jeapordy and Fiery Wrath)
- Summoning Spirit weapons blinds nearby foes. Spirit weapons create a Symbol when being destroyed (yeah… I’m aware of Symbolic Avenger… but it’s so boring).
Example for new utilities
- Sword of Justice – Pulses Vulnerability to nearby foes. Command it to whirl at a location (ground target), weakening foes it hits.
- Hammer of Wisdom – Summoning it recharges your Symbol skills (sorry Mace). Command it to charge to a location, damaging enemies in its path, executing a blast finisher at it’s destination and knocking down foes.
- Bow of Truth – Pulses a condition cleanse on yourself and nearby allies. Command it to barrage (ground target) to heal allies and reveal foes.
- Shield of the Avenger – Breaks stun and pulses Aegis on yourself (low frequency). Command it to cast a reflective dome at a location (ground target) in its reach (pathing).
Like I said, it’s really because we’re always the last one in their thoughts. Scrapper was the last elite spec in HoT, and it was clearly rushed:
- There’s no real synergy with the core skills. Scrapper is almost like an entire class apart from engineer, and not in a good way.
- Scrapper is only really useful in PvP or WvW. In PvE, it severely underperforms compared to core. And when compared against other elite specs, it’s a joke in PvE.
- They never even bothered to follow up with our feedback in the forum. It wasn’t until last month that Gaile un-pinned the BWE3 thread.
- The traits are a broken mess because they rushed out a nerf to gyros. I guess they’re consistent about making sure our traits are broken, because the meta is always more important than a vision when it comes to engineers.
While agree that the Scrapper quite obviously was rushed and the recent nerf to Gyros left the traits in a mess, I really gotta disagree with your first two points. There are quite a few traits which have a beautiful synergy with baseline Engineer when it comes to power and tanky builds.
The issue with this is that Engineers could already sustain itself quite well and – despite not having a proper power AA – also had quite a few power builds (not talking meta… talking ‘viable’). As a result, Scrapper didn’t add too much especially since tanking is more of a niche role in PvE.
Sure, after some nerfs which mainly affected PvP and WvW didn’t turn out to be that popular in endgame PvE mainly because of the rise of condition damage – which the spec indeed doesn’t cater. Not that is too big of an issue considering Engineers were quite good at dealing condition damage to begin with. However, it’s a pitty they didn’t pick Mace instead of Hammer (poor Shield…) and didn’t introduce a proper new mechanic aside from F-Gyro.
Scrapper isn’t completely useless. It’s just kitten boring.
The Light is still generated by a machine so most likely it involves modifying the circuits of the thing that generates the light in specific ways such as increase intensity and adjustment to focus.
Could be true considering we can see a sun/moon, clouds with wind and a lightning bolt within the circuits. I’m pretty excited for the elite spec.
Give might to thing, thing hits harder.
The big problems are the traits “Illusionary Retribution” and “Maim the Disillusioned”.
This is only true for condi Mesmer. Every Mesmer can spam Shatters to gain additional effects like Boons, heals, cleanses and Alacrity, though. It still remains an issue.
Regarding condi Shatter Mesmers I still think tying those traits to F2 and making it more bursty and more frequent like F1 would help balancing the class overall. However, this would, of course, alter the playstyle quite significantly.
Ya know like the clone death we used to have before they removed it and created all these problems.
Did Ithilwen put a spell on you?
‘On death’ traits are very debatable. I personally don’t like them. However, I’d argue removing them certainly didn’t cause any issues the class didn’t have to begin with.