Guild Wars 2

I thought I’d post this just because maybe the devs will listen. There’s a lot to like about GW2. And I feel that trying the idea of no tank / healer / dps specific roles was worth a try. But, I’ve concluded it doesn’t work – at least the way it’s implemented here.

The problem now is on these larger bosses, without the traditional MMO roles, the gameplay is even more limiting than with the tank / healer / dps roles. Ultimately what ends up happening on just about all of these larger boss fights is the same thing – ranged DPS and a lot of kiting. Melee DPS is punished more severely in this game than any other I’ve played – and I’ve played an awful lot. Yeah, melee does a lot of DPS for the very limited time that melee DPS is actually alive.

But the problem isn’t the removal of roles though. The problem is the rest of the game is created as if those roles were in place. The first time I played GW2 I was ok with what AN tried to do. But I left and returned and the limitations of this game were more pronounced. Of course, all this is my opinion.

So my suggestion for whenever, a patch, GW3, I don’t know. You cannot simplify the roles, talents and abilities at the same time. Jack of all trades doesn’t work when the game forces you to try and be a master of one – ranged DPS.

The OP is mostly correct in that there is no competition PvE wise. WvW and TPvP there’s rankings but I don’t know how much that’s followed. It doesn’t even seen like a big deal. Whether this lack of competition is a good thing or not is subjective. As far as the famous players go, I’ve never wanted to play a game because I saw someone in a video do really well at PvP or PvE.

I do think though that there can be room for both casual and competitive players. I think it’s possible, but not sure how. For me, there’s 2 hurdles to overcome: the player’s sense of entitlement and coming up with a system that isn’t terrible.

WoW’s “system”, its way with handling this, is terrible: kill a boss or kill a more difficult version of the same boss for a touch better loot. I really don’t want to fight the same boss again – tougher version. It makes that game feel stale. There has to be a better way of catering to both casual and hardcore players. But I don’t know what it is – haven’t really thought about it much either.

The other part is this sense of entitlement that casual players have. Not all., but most. This is the player who sees a fantastic looking sword and wants one too. Well used to be that in order to get the fantastic sword, you had to meet a goal. If A then B (A being the goal and B being the fantastic sword). The casuals couldn’t do A for a number of reasons (time being a big one) but still wanted B. So the devs create multiple ways of getting B. Now everyone has B which makes makes Mr. Hardcore Gamer annoyed. The problem for Mr. Hardcore Gamer is there’s a lot more Casuals out there than you. So if game developers are smart they’re going to cater to the larger audience of course. That’s why WoW is the way it is now. That’s why Trammel was introduced in UO. The reason why this is a hurdle is because if ANet ever develops gear catered to Mr. Hardcore Gamer you’ll get the Casuals in an uproar (especially here) and linking whatever manifesto ANet released. As long as that sense of entitlement is there, whatever system ANet wants to put in to cater to both crowds won’t work.

To make it work the Causals need to remember the if A then B logic. If no A then no B. Instead there’s a lot of other b’s out there. But not B. Of course the B is the one they want – because it’s better. That smells of competition to me.

For the record, this is coming from a Causal who used to be somewhat Hardcore.

Yes. Always been this way in every game. Probably always will.

My warrior just turned 80. I may start to do fractals soon. I guess I’m level 1 fractal or whatever as I’ve never done one much less completed one.

So if I get into your group somehow, you’d probably need to just point out the basics of the fight. I don’t need much info, just what to sort of look out for. I raided as a rogue in “the game that shall not be named” for about 7 years. I’m rather good at avoiding things by now.

You may be making your gaming experience more difficult by assuming too much.

I’ll only include the PC online gaming as going further back may be irrelevant.

My first online game of any sort was Quake (QuakeWorld). My first MMO was Ultima Online. I played the Commodore 64 and Atari 2600 many moons ago.

MMO background: Ultima Online (4 yrs), Shadowbane (18 mos), City of Heroes (2 yrs), Star Wars Galaxies (3 mos), WoW (7 yrs), Champions Online (12 mos), Aion (2 mos), Rift (1 mo), The Old Republic (6 mos).

I like GW2 very much so far. I don’t think I can really like a MMO like I used to when the whole genre was new to me. I haven’t hit 80 yet but my warrior is 78 now. I obviously don’t mind gear treadmills because I played WoW for so long. Just as long as it’s fun. I didn’t read manifestos or much of anything before I bought the game.

So if there is to be a gear treadmill, then I will run it until I get tired of it. Then I’ll stop. But what I won’t do is complain here about something that I haven’t actually done in this game yet.

aliksyian.7642:

This is not a compelling reason why people with more free time should be given an advantage throughout the game. They already have more time to practice.

Gear doesn’t need to be a “reward”. It functions just fine as a choice, along side what weapon type to equip and what hair style you wear.

OK. See this is what I’m talking about. Do you expect to hit 80 and have the best gear just magically appear in your pack? Best gear implies there is a hierarchy of gear after 80, which there was even before this new gear treadmill patch.

Last time I checked, the look of your gear or hair had absolutely 0 influence on how effective you were in combat. Those are aesthetic changes only. Gear stats aren’t.

No. Getting the best gear should be an achievement or reward, not a given. My biggest pet peeve about gamers these days is they feel that just because they log into your game, everything should be handed to them on a silver platter. But actually put some effort into this? No. You can insert the typical reasons – lack of time, lack of desire to do what is required, etc. Sorry, that’s the way it goes – everywhere. Generally, you don’t get rewarded for doing nothing – unless you work for congress.

MMOs are based around character progression. I’ve yet to see an MMO where improving your character didn’t require a grind. The grind is why you log in. Good grinds don’t make you feel like it’s a grind – but it’s a grind none the less.

Holy crap, I’ve seen this so much it’s sickening. Basically it’s your group = your rules. Period. If someone else makes a group and they have some sort of rules then so be it. Don’t like it? Make a group of your own. This isn’t rocket surgery.

And as far as mindset goes, here’s the mindset that I see: People need to conform to me because <insert reason here>.

It’s a sore point with me because I’ve seen this so many times. Someone will complain that they don’t have the time to get the gear and people who are making their groups shouldn’t have gear score as a consideration. My real bone of contention is who the kitten are you to say what other people should and should not do with groups they are making? It’d be nice if they didn’t consider gear score but they have every right to play the way they want, just like you do.

Probably its “fans”. Because no matter what ANet does there will be a group of fans (large or small) who won’t like it – come to these forums and complain about it. But instead of constructively criticising the decision you’ll get a ton of posts about how the game is dying, etc.

I like the idea. I play this game to have fun, period. No philosophical reasons. No trying to stick it to the game that shall not be named. No breath of fresh air. It’s a game. Of course, my reasons for playing this game may be different than yours.

And, BTW, the amount of replies to this topic – even if they were all unique and all were in favor / disapprove of this topic – it’s still a fanstastically small percentage of the player base.

See I never felt the whole hero thing. Look around and you see heroes all over the place. In that sense I feel rather average.

I do think though MMOs have funneled into the quest / kill / XP structure too much. Back in UO many people had “mule” characters who had very limited combat skills and had many maxxed crafting skills. With those crafting skills you sold items in your house or a player run town or mall. SWG had it as well. I think it would be a nice addition here – the idea of making a non-conbatant character who is still useful.

2h axe definitely. I was rather surprised to see that there wasn’t one.

Well I didn’t have any expectations about this game at all. I decided to get it more or less last minute before launch. I only found out what classes were available 2 days before the launch. There’s still a lot I don’t know.

So far, yes, this is what I want in an MMO. I’m having fun. The aspect I enjoy the most (other than the graphics which are great) is the idea that I’m in world where things are happening all the time. Not just a stage for things to happen whenever I show up. I’ll see about end game when I get there. I’m enjoying leveling for now.

I haven’t learned anything new but more like re-enforce something I knew since leaving WoW almost a year ago:

I just cannot play these games in the same manner I used to.

I used to be able to raid 4 hours a night, 4 nights a week in hopes of getting my Sword of Pwnage or whatever. I cannot do that anymore. I’ve done that grind for years. I can’t anymore.

My ele plays staff exclusively so far (level 50). Because I use staff, I try to get as much range as possible and kite. Earth helps me do this very well.

Yeah we disagree. The humans there did nothing wrong and got caught in the crossfire. The Charr obviously have been stewing over this for 1000 years. Maybe that’s too long a time to hold a grudge. They obviously don’t think so. And unless the Charr live to be that old, this need to get revenge has been passed down among several generations. Were the humans living with that much grief? I don’t know, but I can guess.

Not really. Like you said, the land was the Charr’s and then the humans came in and drove them out. The Charr then return the favor. That makes it tough for me to feel sorry for them.

No no, that’s not for protection. That’s for cheapskates who don’t leave a tip.

Well I like exploring in every game. It probably is the cause of most my deaths while leveling because I tend to wander into zones that are way over my level. So I like the map completion idea. The way I level in this game is I’ll go to the next heart, then if I see an event in the area I’ll do it. Then complete the heart and get the POIs and Vistas last. Rinse and repeat.

The only real exception to this is if there’s a big event going on that I know of. Then I’ll try and get there.

I like the hundred blades comment. Every time I see this I think of the Austin Powers movie where the guy gets hit by the steam roller. The whole scene including leadup time. It just seems to fit.

I’m 40 and liking this game very much.

Mostly because I wanted something different / new.

When I first heard about this game I wasn’t interested. I was playing WOW and raiding and enjoying that. Come this past November I was tired of WOW. I had been playing that game since launch. Fortunately, TOR was being released in a month. I played in that beta and enjoyed it. So after TOR was released I cancelled WOW.

TOR held my interest for about 6 months. I canceled that and decided to give this a try when it was released. Kinda like, “why not?” I’d never played GW1 so didn’t know really much about either game at all. I think that my lack of knowledge of anything Guild Wars turned out to be good – I had no expectations about this game when it was released. I was just hoping I’d like it kinda.

Well I like it a lot. It’s been a pleasant surprise.

Not yet. I still enjoy the vistas and scenery. I’m sure I will at some point but not there yet.

Yeah, if I’m enjoying the game I usually go with the flow until I see something really glaring.

So far for this game it’s all flow. There’s a few things they can improve and obviously bugs to iron out but these things haven’t reduced my enjoyment of the game too much yet.

My first MMO was Ultima Online just for reference. I remember running around Britian for a good while before going to try and kill a wolf with my character. I got my butt kicked BTW. I also remember how big the game seemed. I was hooked.

I don’t see why I wouldn’t feel that again here if this were my first MMO.

It is a solution because if there’s less particles there’s less “mess” to obstruct what the OP is talking about. Unless this game works differently than what I’ve encountered in the past.

My male norn is a Warrior and female norn a Guardian. It just seems to fit I suppose.

Is there a particle density setting in this game? I just don’t recall seeing one but then I wasn’t really looking for it.

This has been an issue in every single MMO I’ve played. Now if there is a particle density setting, move the slider to the left or make the number smaller. If there isn’t then it’s a pretty big oversight by ANet.

I like the rifle quite a bit. I play GS / Rifle (cuz I’m unique) and basically when a champ or some event happens I start with the rifle and see if whatever i’m fighting is melee do-able. A good number of times it isn’t more or less so I’m content to do ranged DPS / rez.

It’s kinda funny so see a max height norn standing there with the smallest rifle I could find. But it’s all good.

I think it wouldn’t matter for me because I’d never see one.

However, it’s a good idea.

Favorite playable: Norn.
Least favorite playable: Asura. I just wanna drop kick these guys all over Tyria with my Norn.

Well yeah it depends on the gamer. I absolutely cannot stand grouping while doing typical quests. It just feels too restricting. Sometimes while leveling I’ll just decide to go exploring. Or I’ll just log because I feel like doing something else. Or maybe I’ll just craft for a while. I don’t really want to run all these decisions by a group of people no matter how friendly we are.

Group quests, dungeons, instances, etc no problem. Just regular questing or hearting or whatever it’s going to be called here – not so much.

It is more successful than I had hoped? I wasn’t even planning on getting this game. I was sure that SWTOR was going to be my post-WoW MMO.

Well that didn’t happen and about a month before this game was released I cancelled SWTOR also. I decided to give this a shot and, so far, It’s exceeded my expectations (there weren’t many).

I hope ANet wasn’t hoping that GW2 would “beat” WoW in terms of # of subscriptions worldwide. That’s silly and I don’t think we’ll see a single game do what WoW did again.

Well I think they should add classes in pairs. Sooo I’d add:

Zen Warrior – or something. Monkish but just don’t call it a monk. Light armor melee avoidance based.

Prelate – Think a caster version of the Guardian.

Yep! I’m enjoying myself in this game quite a bit,

Well I think innovative may be a strong word so long as the XP / Level / Questing system is in place. Maybe evolutionary? There’s a lot in this game which isn’t new but is done differently – for better or worse.

The irony is the real evolutionary MMO I’ve ever played was the first one for me – UO. No quests, no levels, no XP. You leveled skills and stats rather than leveling your character as a whole.

Yeah there’s a few mobs in this game that you remember more vividly.

I remember on my warrior doing an event in a cave with a whole bunch of these guys. I charge in doing pretty well – they don’t have many HP it seems and… what, what? I’m downed? I thought I was doing ok but maybe not checking my HP as closely as I should.

So go back and do the same thing again looking more closely at my HP – with the same result – 90% HP to 0 in maybe 2 seconds (fighting about 4 of them I think). Realized that the swoop attack was the reason and adjusted.

No worries though – tough lesson learned.

When I enter a few dungeons I’ll switch. Till then most of my fighting is solo or world events. I may try out other builds again. I leveled to 30 without the signet build switch to it at 30 when I found out about it and have done rather well.

I’m also rather good at dodging.

The part of raiding I miss is the sense of accomplishment after killing a particularly tough boss with guildmates. That has been lacking of late. The alternative isn’t worth the time to do.

I like that ANet is trying to be different and am happy they’re not in this game – for now.

I play like that sorta. I have 3 characters – level 60 warrior, 43 elementalist and 8 guardian. I must have rerolled the level warrior once (when he was maybe 20 something). I rerolled the level elementalist char a LOT and rerolled the guardian over the weekend. Small things I don’t like about my character kinda irk me.

But I’m not in any hurry to get to 80. I’ll get there eventually. I don’t know how much time I’ve played though. A bit I think.

I agree with the OP on most of his points, but specifically the Dungeons loot. As another poster said, tokens should be used to complete a set of armor, not as the only means to get that armor.

IMO, Part of the fun of group instances is after killing the boss mob, hoping if the weapon or armor piece you want drops. Looting drama aside it’s a key aspect of the whole dungeon experience. The tokens are there so that if the weapon doesn’t drop eventually, you can still buy it eventually.

That should be in place here.

I get some. I may have looted about 7 or 8. and opened boxes with them. I still have 40 boxes left. I’m not in a rush though.

I have a bank alt for stuff I want to hold onto just in case. I must have about 15 or so different stacks of the blue transformation potions alone.

Naw. Forum warrior from time to time but logging in would be tough.

So after looking at the general forum and replying to the Pink for breast cancer awareness thread, I had a suggestion:

Could we have the ability to add favorites to our dye selections? I come up with a decent dye combo for my armor – I’d like to be able to save that color scheme as a favorite somewhere which I can load on a click.

Obviously this isn’t a pressing issue but would be nice if you get the time. No rush though.

Yep. I’ll see what pink dyes I have and I’m in.

And this gives me an idea for the suggestion forum…

Well my ele is rather squishy (and prissy) so I want to keep the baddies at range as much as possible. So I use staff. I dabbled with the other weapon types a bit but for my play style staff seems to work pretty well.

Yes! Please add this.

Every MMO I know of has 1 underlying theme: character progression (gear, talent points, skills, etc.).

I want the end game to continue that. I’m not that picky in terms of how that happens. It just has to be fun. I used to be able to go into instances 3 or 4 times a week to try and get gear. I really am past that now as the only way to get any of these things.

So ANet, I’m not sure what you have in mind with this but mix it up. A little crafting, a little PvP, a little PvE. Maybe a massive event that occurs once a month or something. Want to redefine end game? Don’t get into a rut.

I won’t agree that it feels unfinished, but I think your suggestions are pretty good. IMO, adding things to character creation and customization should be ongoing, always. Maybe in major content releases only but ANet should keep adding to it.