Thought we were all dependant on the chains finishing. There is a hp right in the first map that you have to take the pact chopper to the canopy to get. There is one in the south of the city in the 2nd map that you need to wait out the event for/or is locked behind a mastery gate.
To the victors go the spoils. Our pets are no different.
You can walk into the first map with only updraft and get every single point without the completion of an event. You can get into the canopy extremely easy without the chopper.
Did this fix make it into this patch? Will it be coming soon if it hasn’t?
Yeah, have fun with that. Depending on how long and often you play your grenadier, I give you everything between a day to a month before you wish your thumb was made of metal and not flesh and bone.
I have a G600.
After a week or two you should be able to put in 10 hours or more without noticing (if you play games that much). I have been using mine for months and I have no problems playing for any extended period of time. The first couple of weeks I had to play through the pain but it was worth it lol.
Idk, if you guys are fine with staff then I am. I love seeing a staff ele against me. Thats always my first target because he isn’t getting away and his damage is laughable. I don’t even think their ground targeted attacks even hit for the first second it is down. I barely ever play with my ele but when I do the only weapon loadout I don’t use is staff. If I want to put out aoe damage, create combo fields, cc, aoe cleanse conditions and heal, I will get on my engi for that. 1500 range and the ability to fight 1vx is nice also.
Higher tier spvp teams? Do you mean tpvp teams and thats is 100% not true. Scepter maybe but not staff.
I do mean sPvP (structured player-versus-player) teams, and it is true. If you speak with some of the top-ranking players, watch streams of top-tier play, and get into the top-tiers too—-you will see organized groups with staff elementalists (usually full damage) all over.
Many low-ranked players, especially on these forums, seem to have a fixation on the staff as a “bad weapon”, or do not like it for sPvP. I am unsure as to whether this is because they feel that the staff is not a “cool enough” weapon in appearance, or if they do not know how to play it. A well-played staff elementalist IS challenging to play (especially if damage-focused, because one can die quickly), and it is likely that many low and mid-tier players simply do not put in the time necessary to master the weapon paired with an effective build. By “effective build,” I do not refer to anything even resembling the typical (for unorganized sPvP) and easily-countered, high water, super-high arcane builds.
That is not to say that the staff is useful all of the time, in every situation, against every team design. A good sPvP elementalist needs to know when to switch to a different weapon/build to beat a particular organized team. However, most organized teams run with staff elementalists by default because a staff elementalist can do better what most classes simply cannot do (i.e., lay down large AoE for heavy damage and some control—-essential for taking points from organized players).
My apologies, didn’t think you could possibly be talking about spvp. Its not organized or balanced so anything can do good there because you should never find yourself in a 1v1.
(edited by YourOwnFear.2743)
People play Staff Ele in sPvP?
I mean, I do. But that’s like a once a month reminder that I don’t really like sPvP.
Many, if not most, of the high-tier, organized sPvP teams prefer staff elementalists (sometimes scepter ones) focused on damage output.
Higher tier spvp teams? Do you mean tpvp teams and thats is 100% not true. Scepter maybe but not staff.
“For the first argument, let’s check virtually every single teleporting ability in the game”
There is also the necromancer spell Spectral Recall which teleports you back to where you have started. and has no limitations, goes through walls which stops shadowreturn at times. Surely this needs to be limited aswell?
That skill has a 60 second cd and isnt on a weapon. It also doesnt remove conditions and leaves a big green trail reminder instead of a small circle that can be hidden by terrain. Just saying.
That skill also provides 30 seconds of swiftness and grants you life force on damage taken, and can be traited to have a reduced cool down. Furthermore, its stunbreak is reliable and not buggy like ours is.
Furthermore, the fact that the utility isn’t on a weapon, IMO, can be reversed and actually claimed to be advantageous by the necro. I state in another post,
“… Furthermore, what makes the ability to teleport far away overpowered? IS/SR is one of the few- oh wait, the only mobility skill that sword has, unless you count FS, which doesn’t have a very long range anyhow. Thus, having it sit on our bar for a long time while we wait to use SReturn isn’t exactly advantageous, as we now have one important skill just sitting on our bar. Furthermore, if we’re trying to win the fight, teleporting halfway across a map is actually disadvantageous. The only time the skill, then, is any use for teleporting so far across a map is when you engage in a fight with the intention of escaping already in your mind; it’s not simply an “lol I can suddenly tele halfway across the map” kind of a deal, it requires planning, and, when not used correctly, can actually be very bad for a thief."
See, with infinite range, it is extremely rare to have to abuse that by going such a far distance, so having a 60 second cool down doesn’t really mean much. It’s like Shadow Refuge; we don’t need it enough to justify throwing it down whenever we want to, only when we absolutely need it. However, a weapon skill takes up a slot on your attack bar, the bar that you’re supposed to be using to the largest extent possible; having a button like SR that doesn’t change back to its original mobility skill for 15 seconds can actually be disadvantageous. Many professions often need one or two utilities on their bar, but it’s very rare for them to require three, and usually even when they do that’s because they run a very thematic build, like a venom thief for example. Thus, that third utility tends to be very situational, and SWalk is one of those types of situational utilities.
Comparing a utility and a weapon skill… Those are two very different things right there.
Take away the swiftness and put that sucker on any necro weapon with say a 10 second cd to compensate for no resource usage and I dont think you will hear 1 necro complain. A free utility and an infinate range stunbreak teleport with no to low cooldown sounds like a great day.
(edited by YourOwnFear.2743)
I think its balanced to have the teleport range be the average max range of most damaging skills. I mean think about it. An inf range teleport, stun break that removes a condition. Is that balanced?
“For the first argument, let’s check virtually every single teleporting ability in the game”
There is also the necromancer spell Spectral Recall which teleports you back to where you have started. and has no limitations, goes through walls which stops shadowreturn at times. Surely this needs to be limited aswell?
That skill has a 60 second cd and isnt on a weapon. It also doesnt remove conditions and leaves a big green trail reminder instead of a small circle that can be hidden by terrain. Just saying.
I’m so amused by the OP – none of his arguments are actually about whether this change is a ‘bug fix’ or not, except #1 and #3 (which is actually the same point, made twice in slightly different ways).
Everything else is just discussing whether the skill should be changed to be better or worse. That’s not really the point here, since this entire patch just fixed bugs (if you notice, there were no balance changes).
So let’s take a closer look at this argument – I’ll quote the post here:
1. Counterargument: “But the tooltip says that it has 1200 range!”
The tooltip also says that you “return to your original location”, so obviously the tooltip is contradictory. Furthermore, just because the tooltip says something does not make it theoretically correct in the first place, anyways.
Alright, what he is saying is that
1) The tooltip says “return to your original location” so obviously the intention was to return to the location, regardless of the actual distance in between
2) The tooltip is wrongFor the first argument, let’s check virtually every single teleporting ability in the game
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Judge%27s_Intervention
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blink
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flashing_Blade
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ride_the_LightningI think that’s enough abilities to get the point across. All of them say that they teleport you to the target/targeted area (I specifically chose skills that say that in the description, just to be very pedantic)
All of them also have a range stated in the description. When Shadow Return allows the Thief to teleport back from an infinite range, I expect to see all of the abilities above work at an infinite range as well.
As for your second argument, that makes even less sense. If the skill description isn’t ‘theoretically correct’ (whatever that means) then we can completely disregard them.
Personally I think that the Engineer Grenade Kit should summon a fotm lv 40 Jade Maw to smite all my enemies for 90 million damage. What’s that? It doesn’t say anything like that in the description? Ah, the description isn’t ‘theoretically correct’.
Good job OP, you posted a huge amount of stuff that is completely irrelevant.
Edit: In case I wasn’t exceedingly clear enough, the patch had only bug fixes.
Whether Shadow Return deserves a buff is another topic entirely, but to call this change not a bug fix is just silly.
Entirely too much sense being made in this post so it will be ignored, lol. Im glad you brought up rtl because its tool tip said 1200 but it was actually doing 1500 since launch and was corrected a couple patches ago. All the elementalists claimed unneeded nerf while every other class said much needed bug fix since it made them uncatchable. This whole thing reminds me of that.
The damage on Pistol Whip needs to be brought to a comparable level with a Warrior’s Hundred Blades. Maybe not as high, but something close, maybe 75% of the damage. The evade during the animation kind of equalizes us having less health and armor than a Warrior, but we are able to spam this ability, which is why I would say it shouldn’t be equal damage to HB, but it should be more than it is now.
It has a built in stun, evade, shorter animation and is spamable. It wont be 75% of hb but I hope it gets a good buff.
Arganthium.5638:
You have made such a valid comment, and obviously taken the time (as well know how to use the skill tactically within the game) to write a well, thought out, post on ArenaNet’s recent changes to this ability.
Today the game, and I have logged in and tried it, seems dull and uninteresting to me. When a Warrior can spam abilities to run away from me, a Greatsword on a Ranger = massive running away, catching up to players, and don’t get me started on Elemtals
If you are having problems catching someone I suggest using a short bow and specing into swiftness on dodge.
I want to point out to you that any Thief running up to me with a bow has died very quickly to my offset. I’m not going to burn Int left and right to catch someone. That’s not logical.
That isnt the situation you portrayed. Clearly if the target that is running from you can so easily burst you down, why is he running? You act like having a sb out leaves you defenseless or unable to spam 5k hits, cripple, poison and evade… I am confident that if you had them on the run with your main loadout then you should have no problem with the shortbow even after you gap close with it. Remember they just used their’s to get away while you can hit them 1200 out while they try to run back at you. If your still having problems with those pesky runners turning to kill you when you pull out sb then pm me and I will give you tips.
(edited by YourOwnFear.2743)
Up leveled light armor target with stacks of vulnerability below 50% health.
Ok guys lets just put opinions aside ok. lets look at it from a logistical approach. ok so shadowstep/return works as its supposed to right? so the same programming should have went into infiltrators as its the same skill/effect. they could have copy and pasted the coding with a target…… they didnt however…… even if they missed something it would be an easy quick fix to add it into the programming and would literally take minimal time. so if one works and the other doesnt and are the same thing……(supposedly) logic would suggest that it was purposefully done so. right?
Thinking logically I would realize that the weapon skill that can be spammed wasn’t supposed to be as versatile as the utility skill with a cd and programmed differently. Also I would look at the amount of bugs in the game that when working should be similar to other skills in the game that currently work fine. I would then realize that the problem would be more with the dev team not making bug fixes a priority until something becomes too widely used.
well u totally shirked what i said but w.e. ill try again….if both skills were supposed to be the same why is one different? same programming/coding…..so unless they decided to type something different……
I didn’t shirk it.. I answered with the fact that they arent the same skill and thus programmed different. Now the answer you want from me is why did they mess up the programming of one and not the other. I clearly dont work on the gw2 dev team so I don’t know why. It is easy to miss a 1 or 0 which can cause a bug. You are trying to make it sound way simpler than it is. Maybe a dev can come in here and explain how 2 totally seperate skills can end up with seperate issues….
It has happened to me 2 times in EB today. I have never crashed before that ever.
it also doesnt work underwater
You don’t have a rune in your breather so you only have 5 underwater. Put the run in and it works the same on as on land. I made that mistake after I got a new breather and forgot to put it in, lol.
I would like to see S/P get some buffs. Specifically in pistol whip.
Arganthium.5638:
You have made such a valid comment, and obviously taken the time (as well know how to use the skill tactically within the game) to write a well, thought out, post on ArenaNet’s recent changes to this ability.
Today the game, and I have logged in and tried it, seems dull and uninteresting to me. When a Warrior can spam abilities to run away from me, a Greatsword on a Ranger = massive running away, catching up to players, and don’t get me started on Elemtals
If you are having problems catching someone I suggest using a short bow and specing into swiftness on dodge.
Runes of vampirism anyone? Everyone can do it and you don’t even need to die in the process.
In addition, the above skill says “returns to starting location” yet it will only teleport a maximum of 1200 range (I think..?).
The phrase ‘starting location’ obviously refers to the fact that if you are within 1200 range, it will not teleport you 1200 range in the direction you came from, but rather to where you started (whether it is 0, 600, or 1200 range away).
…Edit: And if you really, really want to argue semantics, check this out
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Judge%27s_Intervention
“Teleport to your target”, “1200 range”. By all of the above arguments, this skill (and every teleport ability in the history of video games) is contradictory. Yet nobody has any problems with how it works.See, this guy understands. I don’t understand why you guys are emphasizing the fact that it says “Return to your starting location” even though you can clearly see that underneath it says that the range is 1200. Meaning that it will teleport back as long as you are within 1200 (metres?) of your original location.
Just like Sunflowers said, if a skill allowed you to “teleport to a target” and underneath that it had “Range: 1200”, are you expecting your character to teleport to an enemy that is on the other side of the map? That’s just plain stupid.
Way too much logic in this statement. It will be refuted to death though and if it can’t be refuted, then the post will be ignored and the thread will go on like it never happened.
Ok guys lets just put opinions aside ok. lets look at it from a logistical approach. ok so shadowstep/return works as its supposed to right? so the same programming should have went into infiltrators as its the same skill/effect. they could have copy and pasted the coding with a target…… they didnt however…… even if they missed something it would be an easy quick fix to add it into the programming and would literally take minimal time. so if one works and the other doesnt and are the same thing……(supposedly) logic would suggest that it was purposefully done so. right?
Thinking logically I would realize that the weapon skill that can be spammed wasn’t supposed to be as versatile as the utility skill with a cd and programmed differently. Also I would look at the amount of bugs in the game that when working should be similar to other skills in the game that currently work fine. I would then realize that the problem would be more with the dev team not making bug fixes a priority until something becomes too widely used.
It isn’t a nerf, lol. It is a bug fix. The skill was clearly labeled with a 1200 unit range and we have been able to use it to juke people well beyond 2000 unit range. It only affects trolls anyways. I never used it beyond 1200 units unless I was going to intentionally troll someone.
well in gw1 this is how it was supposed to work. so was under the impression it was the same here…. anyway that aside….none trolls use it all the time….its a zerg escaping tool…..kinda like the “non stealth” version……so normal players use it on a regular basis…. maybe u dont….maybe ur not a good / experienced thief i dont know. but i do know that ive used it so many times and left a zerg with the choice of chasing me or hoping that a few people can make me teleport back and if i dont i just stopped the zerg from catching me….if they do chase….even better.
I escaped just fine with cnd and shadow return in 1200 range. Funny thing is I am using it just fine right now. Guess I am better than you thought, huh. I don’t normally think someone is good when they need to abuse bugs just to get by.
The initial teleport was 1200 range limit, the return (unlimited range) worked as intended.
also this (‘high quality’ changes to skills by anet):
Smiter’s Boon (PvP)
Enchantment Spell. For 5 seconds, your Smiting Prayers have double the Divine Favor bonus.
Concise description
Enchantment Spell. (5 seconds.) Your Smiting Prayers have double Divine Favor healing bonus.This skill was modified in the August 21st, 2008 update to effectively remove it from PvP. In a Developer update, ArenaNet stated, “We recognize that the changes to this skill will essentially remove it from play. In the future, we may consider whether or not there is an incarnation of this skill that would be viable but balanced. For now, we do not expect it to see serious use.”
This skill is considered by most to be the paramount example of a nerf and thus, has given rise to a nickname known as Smiter’s Booning (or simply S-booning) or “[to] 25/90 <a skill>” (in reference to the new energy cost and recharge), or simply “booned.” (example- “The skill got booned!”) It is most often used when players cry out for the nerf of a particular problematic skill or when a skill has been made so underpowered it becomes unplayable in serious builds.
The teleport has been 600 range and the return 1200 range (labeled).
Obviously, those who are saying that this is a “bug fix” have not played GW1 at all and have no idea what they are talking about.
THIS IS NOT A BUG FIX!
That’s all I have to say about that.
Obviously anyone who sees this as anything more than a bug fix don’t know how to read. The skill CLEARLY stated it only had a 1,200 range (lol, “only”).
If you cannot justify why this is a bug, then it is not a bug.
If you think it is a broken skill because it’s too powerful, then say it as it is and not call it a bug.
It is insulting when their intention is to nerf it but hiding behind the pretense of a bug by calling it a bug. Don’t hide under the pretense that it is a bug, it only makes you dishonest.
Just call it as it is.
It is a NERF!
A bug fix is when Anet finds the time to fix our auto-attack timing — now that’s a bug fix worth praising.
Anet aren’t hiding under the pretense that it is a bug. WE are claiming it was a bug, and it has now been fixed. Anet did nothing to say their end but fix the bug at hand.
If this ultimately nerfs thieves, then it is a nerf that shouldn’t have happened in the first place (NOT in the favor for Thieves). Sorry if you have grown too comfortable with EZescape number 7 not working as intended for almost a year, but this is a fix thieves should have been getting ready for ever since it was made clear as day that the range to Shadow’s Return didn’t synch with it in practice.
So that’s all it takes now? To claim that it is a bug and it is so?
Like I said, you cannot justify it.
And you know what? NOW it is bugged and need fixing. When do you think they will fix that?
But hey, if it makes you superior over any thief whenever Anet nerfs us, then enjoy yourself….why are you even here?
I’ll start off by saying I am here because my main is in fact a Thief. Just because you “claim I don’t play a thief doesn’t make it so”.
lol, nice try but you’re the one making the claim here.
Second, I don’t need to claim that Shadow’s Return was bugged prior to the patch, it was proven by the skill itself.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Return_
1,200 range
Twelve
Hundred
RangeOh I see, then you might want to read this;
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Thief-Patch-Notes-28-5/first#post2108384If it did any more than that (which it OBVIOUSLY did), it was bugged and not working as intended. This isn’t even up for debate, it is fact. The skill prior to patch did NOT work as intended. It now works within the listed range, albeit with a new bug in its place (no one is arguing this needs to be addressed). However, the topic isn’t about Shadow’s Return being bugged, there is already a thread about that. The thread is about Shadow’s Return getting NERFED. It didn’t. It got fixed.
If your reason is based on the tooltip, then you completely lost your mind.
IT WAS WORKING AS INTENDED — THEY DECIDED TO NERF IT.
My only issue here is Anet’s consistency. If they want to base all changes on the tooltip, then make it so. Fix Trick shot and Vital shot and all other “bugs” based on the tooltip.
And don’t stop there. Roll back Basilisk Venom to its former functionality because the tooltip says that the target turns to stone…so why aren’t they immobilized? And don’t tell me that the tooltip is wrong because that’s shooting yourself on the foot.
The fact is, it has already happened many times in the past where changes are completely unjustified — and this is one of them.
I think you should loosen up the tin foil hat because its starting to suffocate your brain. The skill was bugged and has been known for a long time. The devs even mentioned it in a state of the game. Think about how many bugs still exist since launch. Then think about how it could just be possible that the tool tip was correct and it just took them so long to correct the bug. I’m sure it wasn’t high priority since S/x hasn’t been fotm for a while now. If you’re going to complain about anything complain about the fact that it takes so long to fix bugs.
I can already see how this will go, lol.
1st response: We will take a look at it and see if we can reproduce the bug.
2nd response: We have extensively tested this on a target dummy placed in an open field and can’t reproduce the bug.
After video evidence and 3 pages of formulas posted by the community: I see how the bug is produced and we have the dev team working on the fix. Thanks for your help and we will get the fix out for you as soon as possible.
6-8 months later: Shadow Return no longer gets users stuck in uneven terrain/walls.
At least it works fine in an open field.
(edited by YourOwnFear.2743)
Obviously, those who are saying that this is a “bug fix” have not played GW1 at all and have no idea what they are talking about.
THIS IS NOT A BUG FIX!
That’s all I have to say about that.
I believe the tool tip that has been on the shadow return skill proves it is a bug fix. Shadow return range has always said 1200 units. This isn’t GW1 and the skill was clearly labeled.
Is this a joke that I am not getting?
If you’re not getting the ego boost you need from playing at a disadvantage, then just unequip your offhand or something.
lol.
It’s not about ego, it is about challange.
Have you idea of what a competitive game is? Is a game where there isn’t a build when you can press 3-3-3-3 and win. And GW2 aims to become a competitive game.Or perhaps fight some opponents with half a brain. Anyone who dies to 3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3-3 from an S/D thief is either new or awful – anything was going to kill them.
That makes entirely too much sense. I have been wrecking people all day 1v1 with my lvl 37 necro, in a bleed spec. Does that mean it is op or does that mean my targets need some practice? I am sure some people in the class forums will say that a lvl 37 necro is op.
The title of the tread should be changed to bugs/nerfs since it implies your listing only nerfs. Like the shadow return bug that was fixed today wasn’t a nerf (i know you aren’t saying it is a nerf).
It isn’t a nerf, lol. It is a bug fix. The skill was clearly labeled with a 1200 unit range and we have been able to use it to juke people well beyond 2000 unit range. It only affects trolls anyways. I never used it beyond 1200 units unless I was going to intentionally troll someone.
Just tested it and it is still not fixed. This was the big bug fixing patch correct? I hope this wasn’t forgotten about since this is an important bug to fix for wvw mesmer, imo.
I don’t think there will be a balance patch next month. They said they want to wait a while and see what happens with the meta. Plus they said they want to do some bug fix patches before another balance patch and they still have 100s of skill and trait bugs to fix.
Personally I think they should be releasing bug patches weekly. I can’t keep friends playing the game since they get demoralized every patch from not seeing fixes they have been waiting months for not happening. Stuck in the same builds because certain weapon and trait bugs keep them from playing how they want competitively. I really can’t blame them.
That is what we call an Ambush then… they would of noticed him because he used Cloak and Dagger or Black Powder to stealth, he should expect burst. Be it backstab or this.
I said D/P because I can enter stealth without my target seeing me so he would have no clue this 20k was about to hit him in his face. Anyways it will never happen because it is way too powerful with all the tools we have.
Like I have said to you before, you should ask for more realistic changes because you seem recommend extremely op things for every class you play. I am not saying that to offend you. I am just trying to point out to you a pattern that I am seeing. Simple suggestions and bug fixes are all the dev team seems to respond to and take into consideration.
What if someone decides to combine stealth might stacking with d/p and charge from stealth? With basalisk venom preped this would be nasty. Mobile hb from stealth, with a shorter animation and target locked. The best we will see is unload damage getting buffed a little and if we are really lucky, piercing.
(edited by YourOwnFear.2743)
Don’t pop all your boons at the start of a fight vs a S/D thief. Pvp is meant to be like chess not checkers. Let him use initiative or bait the FS with a couple of short duration boons. You can’t expect to blind luck your way through every fight. You should strategize verse every opponent. Every damaging attack a S/D thief does is telegraphed and requires setup. If you are a boon reliant class then you are being countered and need to deal with it. That was the whole point of the buff. If you are not boon reliant then simply out play the S/D thief like you should have to with any class. If your condition heavy then grats you counter a S/D thief. They either melt or dump initiative into shadow return and cnd to cleans conditions while they run away from being resource starved and countered.
(edited by YourOwnFear.2743)
So does nobody use flanking strike, then wait for a clear opportunity to use larcenous strike? Because the 5(?) second window you have to use it sort of encourages that tactic, rather than just mashing 3 twice.
I ask because I’ve seen it implied a few times that LS is actually easy to dodge / bait because FS telegraphs it, but… Strictly speaking, it doesn’t. You can do a couple things between FS & LS.
Because LS takes the current duration of the boons on the target so the average thief tries to get as much out of those boons he is stripping as he can. When FS lands and you are in range to LS, why not use the unblockable attack? It runs the risk of being dodge but if it lands you’re rewarded with longer duration boons, hurting your target more. It is a gamble either way so when people say its easy to dodge they are referring to the people complaining about FS/LS spamming. If the thief isn’t stripping your boons right away and waiting almost 5 seconds then you’re getting to use those boons for most of its duration and its not that detrimental getting them stripped so there is nothing to complain about.
On top of that LS has a 1/2 second animation. Average reaction time is 1/4 second. You have double the average reaction time to dodge LS once you see the animation start.
It has the same damage as sword auto-attack.
Actually, I think it’s a bit more, although I am only comparing actual damage instead of DPS.
And that is my entire point. The skill is supposed to provide evasion and boon stealing, which is what the initiative cost is for. However, it will still give decent damage output at the same time. If it didn’t have quite as much damage, you could still rely on it just as much for utility, but you’d have to switch it up more often to ensure you killed someone.
As such, I’d say any balancing done to the skill (not that it warrants a ton of balancing anyways) is much better as a damage reduction instead of a utility reduction (i.e. only stealing one boon, evading for 1/4s instead of 1/2).
Its 1/2 second evade because that is the length of the animation. If they lowered the evade duration they would have to speed up the animation because you would be effectively ccing yourself for 1/4 sec. The whole weapon set is built around evading damage so giving someone an opening to do damage to you everytime you use FS would be dumb.
Anyways this whole thread needs to end because there is absolutely nothing overpowered about S/D. It was buffed solely to counter boon heavy bunkers and it doesn’t do a better job than D/x at fighting anyone else. I think everyone keeps forgetting that FS/LS is only 1/2 second of evading with another 1/2 animation to actually utilize LS (1 full second to actually get boons and do unblockable damage). If the thief managed to dodge an attack using the 1/2 second evade then I am 100% confident the intended target of LS can dodge LS or counter it with a quicker cc in that same time frame. I have 0 problems doing it.
If you need help fighting a S/D thief I can break it down for you. They are going to try and root you for 1 guaranteed FS/LS combo so I wait on my boons till after that. Once I pop boons it instantly baits the next FS/LS combo. I let the thief land the FS then I dodge the LS leaving them with only enough initiative to to do it 1 more time instantly. At this time I usually counter with a cc to force the shadow return, leaving them waiting for about 2 seconds just to use FS/LS combo again. At the same time I have only taken damage from maybe 2 fs and 1 lkitten (if i didn’t move during the 2nd fs animation). Then its time to put the pressure on which instantly baits the next FS/LS combo 2 seconds after the shadow return or a root slice/slash combo, followed by FS/LS combo 3 seconds later. After that they can only pop cds or run for 4 seconds leaving you with the advantage for the rest of the fight having only taken minor damage (unless your glass with no boons). I hope that helps those having problems with the easiest to counter thief weapon loadout.
Edit: Another hint, use conditions so you force initiative use on shadow returns or cnd.
(edited by YourOwnFear.2743)
Why would the damage need to be toned down? It hits for the same amount as the 3rd hit on the auto attack chain. No one uses it for damage unless your target has aegis up or another block up. Auto attack chain does more damage in about the same time. I would rather use the initiative on cnd/daze combo verse doing damage with LS. I might possibly use FS for the evade though depending on the circumstance.
(edited by YourOwnFear.2743)
You guys can cry all you want but FS/LS wont get nerfed. I play every class and I have 0 problems with a S/D thief. Spamming LS is only good vs boon reliant bunkers. Anet isn’t going to leave necros being the only heavy boon reliant bunker counter. If you see a S/D thief don’t spam boons to counter him at the start. Just kite him and make him dump initiative on roots and defensively using FS. Hint: dodging LS is as easy as dodging a ranger’s pet. He will either run or take a crap ton of damage. If you can’t handle a S/D thief then idk what you expect to do against a D/P thief that crits for 2x the damage when you can’t see it coming and does more with an auto attack rotation initiative free, on top of reduces healing by 33%, all while you’re blinded. Stealth 8k crit > 1/2 second evade 5k crit. I can infinitely stealth to reset a fight if I need to also. If I prep my escape with S/D I lose my root and my sole means to get my LS off on a target that isn’t kittened.
TLDR: FS/LS will get nerfed after every stealth build and every boon reliant bunker.
(edited by YourOwnFear.2743)
Flank strike isn’t going to be nerfed. They buffed it to let thieves do something else other than sit in stealth and burst people when they can’t see it coming. They aren’t going to make the load out less attractive. It is only good vs bunkers and that was the point of the patch, bunker busting.
I’m going to start this off by saying that you’re obviously a good player, and the below isn’t a personal attack.
That being said, what’s so impressive about this? As far as I can tell, this is what happens when you take a giant open space and fight in the middle of it rather than being forced to fight around objectives. Teleporting around a giant map where your escape vector is “any direction away from my opponent” rather than limited by map design and overall small size seems like common sense. The fact that you don’t have some point where you “have to be” (IE, a capture point) means your free to engage and disengage at will. The people chasing you (rather than splitting up between where you are and where your return circle is) are just wasting their time. There’s no penalty associated with spending 20s out of every minute running away so as to let your skills Cool down.
What it boils down to is you’re baiting people. They’re more interested in “not letting you get away” then playing intelligently. Like I said earlier, you’re clearly good at it, but it seems like anything a competent PvP S/D thief could pick up in an hour.
I don’t understand the indirect attack on the op. I understand you say you are not attacking him but in reality you are. He never tried to promote a build for spvp or tpvp. It was clearly a fun video of him trolling some people in wvw. I really don’t understand the point of your post. We all know that wvw and pvp are 2 different things and all builds don’t give mirrored results in one another.
Op keep the videos coming. It was very entertaining.
(edited by YourOwnFear.2743)
There isn’t enough shadow steps currently? Correct me if I am wrong but sword 2 has no cd and a ridiculous return range. Shortbow 5 also has no cd. There is also shadowstep and shadow trap but they do have cds. Steal can also blink you to a target and you can prep sword 2 before you do it for a return.
This guy loves playing like that:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Kronos-Outnumbered-Roaming-Video/first#post2064903
Should post your build and gear.
Nice video man. Thats a nice setup you got going there. There is one problem with the video though. It is clearly fake since you did so much damage and survived so well without stealth.
On a serious note, I just started using S/D and have been having a ball with it. I keep my krutch D/P with me though because I need to kitten out sometimes and perma stealth out of the area lol. I will work my way back to SB off though. I play too many classes to jump right into it. Keep the videos coming.
I named my mesmer TheBoogeyman because most people get scared and run when they see me coming.
The way turrets are right now make me think they were originally designed to be apart of a kit.
(edited by YourOwnFear.2743)
I get what you are saying. What I am saying is the damage you can do in a turret build isn’t on the same level as what you can do in a HGH build for example. It isn’t even on par with an SD build with nades. In both of those builds you get better damage and utility. Like better condition cleansing and stun breakers. To compensate for this I believe the damage should atleast be on par with those builds. In reality it should be better because your full potential is isolated to the area you drop your turrets in for up to 50 secs. That means if your target decides to leave your kill area and move the fight 1500 units away then you just lost any advantage you had for the duration of their cds.
So yes with my idea it would seem like a lot of damage but its extremely easy to predict and counter damage. The whole set up makes you extremely weak outside of your turret area and weak against conditions in it (every 20 secs). It could hardly be considered an op set up.
(edited by YourOwnFear.2743)
I don’t see how a stationary visible turret would be op if it did more damage. I am not asking them to give turrets 20k health and 2700 armor on top of increased damage. I want the damage they do to be threatening because If I run a full turret build I just gave up all my utility outside what those turrets can do. Also running turrets would be a damage build so the damage needs to be comparable to or exceed the current damage build choices. No one is going to drop 3 utility slots to do less damage and lose utility.
Turrets really should be doing the damage mesmer’s phantasms do and need more health to compensate for the fact that they take up a utility slot. I have actually been playing my mesmer with a phantasm build simply because its the closest I am going to get to the playstyle I thought I would get from my engi.
At what should I spam auto-attack if I need a target to hit are you kidding me?
You do realize that you don’t need a target to use and hit with your autoattack, do you? If a dagger thief stealths there is a 90-99% probability of him getting close to you to pull off a backstab. If you constantly spam your autoattack you will eventually hit him, or he will retreat without attacking.
I can’t think of a single auto attacks fist hit that would cause me to back off. If I am in range to get hit by an auto then I am in range to dodge roll backstab. Backstab > every first hit auto in the game. Besides that, if the person I am hunting is ranged its a free kill because they can’t do anything but run and use up endurance/defensive cds. Especially if I am D/P.