Guild Wars 2

evilapprentice.6379:

YourOwnFear.2743:

evilapprentice.6379:

JeroenXP.5364:

A lot said the ranger should have an option too see stealth with a skill since they do need some love. But overall a thief should not be able to chain stealth, just now fighting a thief who is 75% in stealth in a 3-5 min fight. This is not being out played because a frigging 8 year old can chain stealth abilities.

Most thief players come with there poor excuse of “stealth is our only survival” well guess what that’s block and immunity for other classes but hey we can’t spam them where we can use them 75% in a fight. I hope one day Anet would just listen better and don’t come with silly solutions like a trap mostly specific used just for one class, that’s just poor game design and I know Anet can do better.

Hey guess what, Immunity is just that – absolute immunity from all attacks for a set amount of time. Block is the same (though there are a handful of abilities that hit through block, they are a very small % of overall attacks). Stealth on the other hand offer 0% damage mitigation. 0% damage mitigation. You cannot compare the 2 as if they were the same because they don’t do the same things.

Maybe he is a sb/lb ranger? He then can’t kill what he can’t target (unless the thief is dumb enough to stand in the big red circle 4-5x without healing). Stealth is just as effective damage mitigation as block. Stealth also allows me to reposition for an advantage. Now I am not against stealth because I play every class at max lvl but you can’t deny that stealth is the most effective defensive tool in the game right now. As long as the thief or mesmer isn’t dumb enough to stand in aoe.

This is all based on wvw since spvp/tpvp make stealth a lot less useful and a lot easier to counter.

Well than that’s the fault of his choices, isn’t it? No one forced him to go Lb/Sb. That would be like be complaining if a backstab thief 3 shot me because I run around with base toughness and 14k HP. I chose to be that glassy fully knowing that a D/D GC thief might 3 shot me.

If you haven’t learned to roughly guess where a thief might be based on his MH weapon, you aren’t trying. Hint, if he has a dagger or sword in his MH and stealths, he’s probably trying to get behind you. You can use that information to severely neuter how effective stealth is as an offensive tool, AND if you happen to not be running Lb/Sb, you can reduce the defensive abilities of stealth with this knowledge as well.

That was all a preface to my point. Which is stealth is the strongest defensive ability in wvw. If you are only using it to attack then you won’t get what I am saying. That guy’s point was that stealth can be used constantly where immunities and blocks can’t. Does stealth stop damage? No it doesn’t but it does allow a smart player to stop almost all damage to him indefinitely with the right spec and smart play. I myself run S/P and D/P. With that setup I don’t die unless someone bursts me down instantly. I can stealth and stay in the area, chipping away at my target, coming out to burst him down when I get my advantage back. While in stealth he only knows generally where I am when I drop my smoke field. Even if he lays down some aoe I barely take damage if any because I am not dumb enough to stay in it. If he is wildly turning around to swing I move to another area and dodge roll in to attack when I want. Its the easiest thing in the world to do and the hardest to counter (if the thief isn’t brain dead). To top it all off, at anytime I want I can leave and there is nothing you can do about it because you can’t see me.

I am not saying this is op or super powerful offensively. I am simply agreeing with him by saying that stealth is the best defensive ability in wvw/pve for anyone who can use it to its full potential.

On topic I don’t agree with adding a stealth trap since there aren’t traps that counter everyone elses defensive abilities. I don’t think its as game changing as everyone makes it out to be though because for the average player its not cheap. I just don’t like the idea that something was put in to specifically target 2 classes utility.

evilapprentice.6379:

JeroenXP.5364:

A lot said the ranger should have an option too see stealth with a skill since they do need some love. But overall a thief should not be able to chain stealth, just now fighting a thief who is 75% in stealth in a 3-5 min fight. This is not being out played because a frigging 8 year old can chain stealth abilities.

Most thief players come with there poor excuse of “stealth is our only survival” well guess what that’s block and immunity for other classes but hey we can’t spam them where we can use them 75% in a fight. I hope one day Anet would just listen better and don’t come with silly solutions like a trap mostly specific used just for one class, that’s just poor game design and I know Anet can do better.

Hey guess what, Immunity is just that – absolute immunity from all attacks for a set amount of time. Block is the same (though there are a handful of abilities that hit through block, they are a very small % of overall attacks). Stealth on the other hand offer 0% damage mitigation. 0% damage mitigation. You cannot compare the 2 as if they were the same because they don’t do the same things.

Maybe he is a sb/lb ranger? He then can’t kill what he can’t target (unless the thief is dumb enough to stand in the big red circle 4-5x without healing). Stealth is just as effective damage mitigation as block. Stealth also allows me to reposition for an advantage. Now I am not against stealth because I play every class at max lvl but you can’t deny that stealth is the most effective defensive tool in the game right now. As long as the thief or mesmer isn’t dumb enough to stand in aoe.

This is all based on wvw since spvp/tpvp make stealth a lot less useful and a lot easier to counter.

Personally I like to keep my ideas simple because I don’t think Anet is looking to script any big changes to a skill. If my idea doesn’t change the way the trait in place already functions and doesn’t change enough to make it feel mandatory, then its more likely to get looked at by the dev team.

I like your change but there is no way they are going to go that route. Gotta think minimal effort for maximum results when asking for change. Time is money.

Adrenal Health should tick as fast as regen. A warrior has to sacrifice damage to keep it going so I think it should do more defensively. It would make it more like protection but it would be better for conditions. I think this would be a good change for a warrior looking for a sustain boost.

Edit: I mean the warrior sacrifices burst damage. I know they get a damage buff for keeping it full but all the traits make it seem they are put to better use increasing the damage on burst skills.

You guys should look into adding this to increase your profits. Why am I recommending this? Well because I was talking with a friend the other day who was telling me how he wanted to purchase one of those new molten mining picks but he couldn’t justify making a purchase like that in a game at the time. He joked about how if this was LoL he would have just used the mobile payment thing to get the currency so he could just pay it with his bills when he would normally have extra cash.

I thought it was actually a good idea so I am posting it here. I am sure you guys aren’t hurting for money but I would like to see you guys do better so we can continue to get better quality content. It could maybe even help you guys get a bigger bug fixing team or a bigger team working on more cosmetic items for the shop (more items = more profit).

If you do end up using the idea hook me up by fixing Superior Runes of the Centaur as a thanks.

Retrospek.4583:

You’re right, absolutely right, AirWick…it’s a game. Last I checked, games were meant to be played, not bought to be the best.

I don’t understand this lazy mentality of “gamers” who want to buy their way to the top, rather than enjoy the journey there…

Not everyone plays the same way. I personally don’t care if someone can pay to get something I can earn in game. As long as the best items are left only achievable in game and everything that can be bought can be earned. It is just my personal feelings on the matter. I don’t hate anyone who pays to catch up. They will never be on par if they don’t put the same effort we put in to earn the extra bit not buyable.

Homing would be amazing. I would be happy with the speed if it had homing. That would actually fix the problem, while still leaving a slow easy to dodge/los projectile.

I am testing it now and there is no difference.

Guess they didn’t find the backspace or the 0 button this patch period.

Guess no one wanted to changed that 22% this patch.

Its exactly the same. Only the tooltip changed to add in the passive heal amount. The buff is now you know how much its going to heal you before you equip it.

Nahan.5043:

The 5th skill of gs warrior should have a 2 sec or more knockdown. I mean the attackanimation is ok too, it would fit the skill, and u could use your 100b better in pvp. Or the f1 skill of gs should have a knockdown animation would fit too, at least 1 more knockdown cuz we are warriors we need knockdowns bulls charge is not enough and its already kittenty so anet consider this pls. This is a good idea tough

I would like a knockdown on rush but then Anet would nerf 100b.

nicknamenick.2437:

I don’t think its over the top, if evade on rush than we also get a free ticket to get away
, just like other have it.
Also evade on burst skills like eviscerate is more so you can’t get stunned or fear durring your burst skill.. and that’s what a warrior is all about.
The others can still dodge/block your burst.

Other classes got also a “OP” thing like Aegis/protection/stealth etc. why can’t we warriors have some unique? and evade on “some” weapon skill would fit the style.

(Sorry about my bad english)

You can’t compare other classes damage mitigation sources to ours. Guardians have low base health so they get things like aegis. We have the highest base damage so our class is built around dealing burst damage. Now Anet is looking into increasing our sustained. Putting evade on our damage skills won’t help our sustained as much as you think it will. I would much rather get increased healing and better condition cleanse for damage builds. That way I don’t have to waste my burst and damage skills to avoid damage.

I would say like thieves but mesmers are pretty slow and easy to catch if you don’t get juked by a clone. Anet wants thieves to be the most mobile though so putting us on par with them isn’t going to happen. We already have great mobility as it is with the right weapon loadout. This would just put it over the top.

nicknamenick.2437:

Hey all,

What if we got more evade’s on our weapon skills?
Warrior is all about damage, but in pvp we often can’t place the damage..
Like whirlwind is very nice for gap closing (and dps ofc) and even got evade! if we got some more of this i really think we could be a real warrior again in pvp!
I was thinking that ALL burst attacks got a 3/4 sec evade (just like whirlwind)
And maby some on other skills like Rush or Salvage leap etc..

I dont think it would be too OP for warrior.. others also got of evade (mesmer: flurry) or other things like stealth / protection / Aegis.. etc we warrior dont have all of those..

I think this would give us a bit more sustain.

Putting evades on the skills you mentioned would make us uncatchable when leaving a fight. I do agree with a sustain buff but evades aren’t the way to go in my mind. That would actually hurt our damage because it would force the use of our damage skills for damage mitigation. Then we lose out on damage that took a good bit to set up to begin with and on top of that our fights would drag out longer, giving our target more chance to reset the fight or get an advantage. Essentially just dragging out our death.

I think our sustain should come from increased healing and not having our best condition cleansing being attached to a set of runes.

Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.

AlBundy.7851:

Absolutely agree when your fighting a warrior the warrior never has to aim the whirlwind attack and have proper positioning to get the most out of it. And lets not forget how during the cooldown of the warrior’s whirlwind attack the warrior still gets multiple whirlwind attacks going off!!! This is so absurd BUFF Mesmer’s now Arenanet!!!

You clearly didn’t read anything I said because you went straight into defensive mode. I said in the best case scenario for a whirl move (a stationary target) it can’t even hit for full damage but my warrior can. Also lets not forget that where a mesmer has no control over that phantasm once its released or even which direction it comes from while its released, my warrior does. To top it all off the izerker has next to no hps and runs after its target doing nothing in between whirl attacks. Anyways I find comparing classes stupid but since you’re going there I am. If you’re going to compare a weapon to the mesmers ranged weapon then you need to compare rifle to greatsword. I would not trade my rifle for the mesmers greatsword for any reason. 15k kill shots>2k crits from izerker.

Maybe if you love the izerker so much you should roll a mesmer and stop playing a warrior because the fixes we need over here are sustained fixes not damage. The more damage we get the less sustain we get and I don’t think thats what most of us want.

I think some of you need to make a mesmer and go to the mist to actually test the skill. On my warrior, if your standing still, my ww will hit you with ever hit. On that mesmer in the mist, that phatasm seems to only hit 1-2 hits on a sationary target. Usually doing like 1-2k damage. Ww is far superior damage wise then izerker. Also I would like to point out that izerker hits just as kittenty on any target not running away from it. If you wanna pick on a phatasm then choose the ones that actually work, like duelist and warlock. They do crazy damage for a set and forget skill.

Travlane.5948:

Okamakiri.8746:

Sebrent.3625:

If missing a single skill makes a class completely useless, then there is a massive issue in the design of the class.

For the first time in months of your trolling, we agree on something.

agreed. however getting people to admit there is reliance on stealth due many weaknesses is….well tough. :/ we need buffs…BEFORE ….they nerf (if they nerf us agin)

Anet’s policy is to nerf first buff 6 months later. Thats how build diversity is created so I wouldn’t give them any ideas if I was you.

Embolism.8106:

Sebrent.3625:

My problem with Mantra of Pain is I don’t really see a use for it in a condition build … only in power builds. That irks me.

Almost all skills are like that. It would however be nice if Mantra of Pain inflicts Confusion… its direct damage is low even in a Berserker build anyway.

It’s damage isn’t low for a berserker build. Especially when you can spam 3 instantly when traited. I know because I run it in my build and the damage is never something I thought needed to be changed.

If a trait like restorative mantras will become overpowered with 3/4 of a second shaved off the cast time then it is probably already overpowered and should be looked at. At the same time they can look into more ways to make mantras more attractive to build around, like the idea I gave of simply cutting a fraction of a second off the prep time. With builds being taken away every patch I would like new builds to have fun with while actually being on par with the top tier builds. Mantras are unique to mesmers so in my mind that is the perfect place to start.

I run a mantra build and I dont think any uniqueness of that build will be lost if 3/4 of a sec was shaved off the cast time. Its just hard to run a full mantra build against competent players. In a full mantra build you dont get stealth to prep a mantra. Maybe it could be stuck in the grand master trait. I hardly think dropping the cast to 2 secs from a grand master trait could lead to anything considered op. I honestly havent seen another mantra mesmer in person. Maybe this could make them more attractive.

Brutalistik.6473:

My original idea stays the same with healing signet receiving a healing buff with it’s passive regen / active and the more healing power the warrior have. The better the results you’ll receive and it would be nice if Adrenal Health scaled as well with Healing power.

Personally I would like to have the heal just be increased and the healing power contribution meaning more but Jon Peters said in his post he thinks the heal does fine in healing power builds already. I think he is just going to lightly buff the base heal of the passive and lower the healing power contribution to keep it close to where it is now in clerics builds. I don’t agree with this but haven’t seen many big changes and I don’t think we will see a big change with the signet. I’m thinking we might see a 300 heal base with the active staying the same. Possibly with an added stun breaker since he does mention a stun breaker in his post. I don’t think anyone will be using it still.

I am still crossing my fingers for it to be moved over into a utility slot.

Maugetarr.6823:

bhagwad.4281:

swinsk.6410:

I can’t believe people are feeding this kitten idea. This is probably the dumbest idea ever suggested.

If thieves get punished for failing a skill then so should every other class.

So if thief gets revealed for missing bs warriors should get a 4s cool down on thier auto attack when they miss. All classes should.

Besides, the fact that thieves can spam bs until it lands in no way makes then over powered or gives them any unfair advantage.

While in stealth, our unique stealth skill becomes our auto attack.

Why are so many noobs making kitten threads like this?

Wake me up when an “autoattack” like backstab does the same damage as all other autoattacks in the game.

Don’t call backstab an autoattack just because it’s in your first slot. There’s no comparison.

Actually, hitting a backstab on the front does mediocre damage at best, while hitting a backstab on the back does roughly the same as a warrior’s tripple chop. I realize triple chop has a longer channel time, but it is also broken into multiple attacks meaning that assingle block will only stop part of the damage and it also has no positional/conditional setup.

The conditional set up is getting through the first 2 attacks.

Koppartikus.2396:

Can we please get this topic back on the mark and talk about Healing Signet? The derailing’s gotten pretty out of hand.

The goal of Healing Signet is to have a means to provide substantial passive healing. This kind of healing is naturally suited towards sturdier builds where high levels of sustainable healing mesh well with the increased eHP durable builds provide.

To this effect, I’d like to see the scaling on Healing Signet improved such that those who are willing to build towards that sturdiness (and are willing to invest in Healing Power) should be rewarded with a skill that scales with the build appropriately. At this point, a coefficient of .033 is just too low to warrant an investment in Healing Power.

Some people have mentioned adding a stun break to the ability, but since this skill has a 16s cooldown when traited I don’t really think that’s the best idea. We already have several skills that break stun that tend to be on our bars as is (Shake It Off, Endure Pain, Balanced Stance, etc.)

I’m still not sure on how well the active should scale or be balanced – it should be low enough to encourage leaving the signed off cooldown to leverage the passive but not so low where activating it feels useless.

I personally think it should be moved to a utility skill and condition cleansing could be added to it instead of the active heal. Since the dev post did say they want to see it in more damage oriented builds, this should fit best. They can then add a heal that maybe blocks for a short duration while healing a small amount or a short cd heal that gives a couple boons, like protection and regen.

At the same time they should give dolyak’s active to stamina and then give dolyak protection as an active. Works in my mind.

I would like to see them get a 2 second flat cast time. I will still use them anyways because I like them but 2 seconds would help not get me interrupted as often.

Sebrent.3625:

laquito.5269:

Its kinda funny that your saying Thief rewards bad playing, and I partly agree on that as you don’t need to be a good thief to be somewhat successful, but in the same breath you’re mentioning D/D Ele’s, BM ranger and Phantasm Mesmers, which are just as easy to play and also reward bad playing, maybe even more than thieves.

Where are Phantasm Mesmers, D/D Ele’s, and BM Rangers being rewarded for bad play?

I’m currently unaware of any instance where one of their attacks is successfully countered by the foe but the result is the foe has a defense on cooldown and the Mesmer/Ele/Ranger doesn’t care because they can use that same skill again as if nothing had just happened. If you know of such, I’ll lead the charge to their subforum or at least PM a dev to ask about it with regards to that patch back in January 2013. Over in the Ranger forums we’ve learned that we’re sometimes aware of things that devs are not … as has also been illustrated multiple times in the State of the Game interviews.

laquito.5269:

Thief has been nerfed more than enough and the game finally hits a state, where I’d say that classes are all somewhat balanced, so theres no need for any more nerfs. Do you see me demanding nerfs for Guardians just because they got tons of blocks and mechanics to counter thieves? This nerf demanding has seriously reached a point of ridiculousness, cut it already.

I don’t see it as a nerf. I see it as a mechanic fix.

No one else says “I used big-hit-X and it was blocked, I’ll just use big-hit-X immediately again because it doesn’t matter”.

If it was done my way this would be a buff that rewarded good plays in pvp and a flat out buff in pve but everyone wants to have their cake and eat it too.

Honestly I never expected to get a response lol. This just made my day.

Daecollo.9578:

Leo G.4501:

Brutalistik.6473:

They just do not want to see a warrior become competitive / gain buffs.

..did…did you not read my other posts in the thread or something?

Leo G, you said before that Adrenal Health healed for 360 hp/s… I mean its obvious you don’t even play a warrior. I know you like ranger and they are very good, but rangers are in a VERY good place atm, please go back to the ranger forum.

None of my threads have anything to do with nerfing rangers, I just wanna buff warriors to be on-par with rangers.

Man I have been with you up till this post lol. Ranger is not in a good place. Thats like saying engi is in a good place because there is the HGH and SD build. Ranger does well in spvp and tpvp with traps and some bm builds but pve and wvw ranger is lacking. Some of the last changes helped out with pet aggro but not with them dying so quick and a good chunk of damage is rolled into thier pets. Spirits are still pointless to build around and ranged weapons are lacking. Now if you wanna say mesmer or guardian are in a good spot then I would have to agree with you.

With all that said I do hope the signet gets a good change or moved over to be a utility skill.

It is silly how everyone is missing how my proposal is a buff. Everyone cried after the mug nerf. My idea helps get the damage back. The cost of the damage being returned is that now you have to pay attention to where you’re standing and what buffs your target has up. If you are in a blind field do you spam 1 anyway? If you see an engi with a big gear in front of his face do you just spam 1? I know I don’t do this dumb kitten so I would have no problem with the change. In fact I would love it. I get more damage and I continue to play absolutely the same way I do now when I have a dagger in my main hand….

Shadowskill.9852:

Sebrent.3625:

Let me be clear because it’s obvious many of you aren’t reading.

I only think a thief should be revealed when:

• Their backstab hits, but is countered by a block, dodge, etc.

I do not think a thief should be revealed when:

• Their backstab (or any attack) is out of range when they use it
• They dodge
• They use a non-attack skill

What does this guarantee?

• A thief that doesn’t pay attention to their foe’s dodging, blocking, etc. will be punished just like anyone else that tries to attack when their foe is doing the same
• A thief will only be guaranteed a backstab if their opponent isn’t wise enough to use a counter

---

But hey, here’s an idea …

When a thief’s backstab is counted by being blocked, dodged, etc., backstab goes on cooldown until the thief leaves stealth.

This could be easy to implement:

• Backstab, Tactical Strike, etc. require 1 “charge” and being in stealth to use.
• You can not have more than 1 “charge”
• You gain 1 charge any time you transition from “not stealthed” to “stealthed”
• You only lose the charge if you use backstab, tactical strike, etc. and it is countered by a block, dodge, etc.
• Having your attack countered does not remove you from stealth and does not give you the revealed debuff

Also, everything your saying here goes against the title of the thread. You imply MISSING. Not blocking then revealed.

You should read more than the title because it has evolved since the thread started.

Thief is one of my many characters and the changes I proposed helps me as a thief. First It makes my pve thief more viable after the damage was taken out of mug. It also increases my pvp damage when I pay attention to what I am actually doing instead of just repeatedly trying to force my combo. Lastly it leaves every class with no excuses when they get outplayed (personal plus for me).

Sebrent.3625:

Let me be clear because it’s obvious many of you aren’t reading.

I only think a thief should be revealed when:

• Their backstab hits, but is countered by a block, dodge, etc.

I do not think a thief should be revealed when:

• Their backstab (or any attack) is out of range when they use it
• They dodge
• They use a non-attack skill

What does this guarantee?

• A thief that doesn’t pay attention to their foe’s dodging, blocking, etc. will be punished just like anyone else that tries to attack when their foe is doing the same
• A thief will only be guaranteed a backstab if their opponent isn’t wise enough to use a counter

---

But hey, here’s an idea …

When a thief’s backstab is counted by being blocked, dodged, etc., backstab goes on cooldown until the thief leaves stealth.

This could be easy to implement:

• Backstab, Tactical Strike, etc. require 1 “charge” and being in stealth to use.
• You can not have more than 1 “charge”
• You gain 1 charge any time you transition from “not stealthed” to “stealthed”
• You only lose the charge if you use backstab, tactical strike, etc. and it is countered by a block, dodge, etc.
• Having your attack countered does not remove you from stealth and does not give you the revealed debuff

If you guys dont like my idea this is another good one. Allows you time to reposition or increase your time in stealth to get a good position to try again. At the same time you just removed 1 method for you target to defend themselves.

Though my idea comes with a buff.

swinsk.6410:

I can’t believe people are feeding this kitten idea. This is probably the dumbest idea ever suggested.

If thieves get punished for failing a skill then so should every other class.

So if thief gets revealed for missing bs warriors should get a 4s cool down on thier auto attack when they miss. All classes should.

Besides, the fact that thieves can spam bs until it lands in no way makes then over powered or gives them any unfair advantage.

While in stealth, our unique stealth skill becomes our auto attack.

Why are so many noobs making kitten threads like this?

I would like to point out that the change I put out was to reveal if outplayed with an active block, evade or blind. Just like every other class. When a warrior uses 100 blades on a target that dodges does it go on cd? When a ranger uses a big attack while blinded does it not go on cd? We are talking about a big damage attack with no cd than has no punishment when used in a bad play.

I dont like using class comparisons but you did mention punishing other classes so I pointed out they are already punished.

Edit: would also like like to point out that I also said there should be a buff to the skill to reward better playing.

McFribble.2349:

YourOwnFear.2743:

I think his point is if you are doing nothing but using everything you have to counter backstab then that doesn’t prove backstabs effectiveness or lack thereof.

Well, I bring up a new point. If a thieve is changes to be revealed on a failed backstab attempt, what is stopping people from doing everything in their power to counter backstab by avoiding it at all costs (like people SHOULD be doing now), rendering the Thief completely useless?

What would stop the thief from using good play to set up backstab allowing it to get alittle buff like I mentioned before (to reward better play), instead of using it as their open, middle and endgame. The change I proposed only hurts bad players and if you think about it, you will force your target to use up his defenses early since everyone is used to, blow cds, mug, cnd , backstab, heart strike spam. Good play after the change will mean bigger rewards and the thief looking more skilled and less faceroll.

Is this going to get fixed in this big bug patch coming up? I can’t see this being more than a few minutes to fix.

I have a strong feeling turret changes will be coming after they finally fix traits and runes. I just wanted to post my idea because I like the idea of an entire build around turrets. Would really get me back into the game.

I think his point is if you are doing nothing but using everything you have to counter backstab then that doesn’t prove backstabs effectiveness or lack thereof. In a real fight you will be trying to kill the thief while he has ample resources to restealth and try to get his big damage hit off after getting you out of position.

Backstab isn’t the only thing you should be doing in a fight. Getting someone out of position or on the offensive then turning their effort against them to gain position to backstab is how I use it.

If your fail rate is so high then you’re probably trying to end a fight in a single combo or just plain old spamming backstab too much.

Sebrent.3625:

As I’ve pointed out before, Ranger’s opening strike requires them to get completely out of combat for a while for it to reset. A thief who has their backstab blocked, dodged, etc. is simply revealed for 3 seconds.

Who is punished? Only the Ranger.
If both were punished, who would be punished more still? The Ranger.

Come complain when it puts backstab on a 30+ second cooldown or requires you to get out of combat before you can use it again.

You do realize I brought up rangers as an example why there should be a revealed debuff on thieves who get out played right? I don’t know why you think I am complaining about rangers. I was complaining that thief is not getting punished enough for bad play.

Dasorine.1964:

YourOwnFear.2743:

Dasorine.1964:

Yeah, except for those that like playing backstab style in a game where your meant to be free to choose your build and style

Considering stuff like P/X needs buffing anyway, nerfing an “ok” weapon set in exchange for a buff to a set that already needs buffing is just exchanging a punch in the face for a kick to the head

What your not getting is this would only be a nerf to bads. Good players will adapt and play better. I also mentioned that the change should come with a damage buff so technically if you are a good player this should only be a buff.

It really depends, yes it would mostly hurt bads, but what about people who suffer from stuff like latency? what about sync issues that are invariably had in mmorpg pvp situations? the fact that those suffering from such issues have most likely already had to work around those issues once with the first skill sending them into stealth they now have to do so again with a far more constrained attack to land.

For what? To keep low level players happy because they think they should automatically counter what basically amounts to an auto attack with special mechanics simply because they stood near a guardian or they spammed V rather than avoid the initial approach?

Of course you can’t really balance the entire game around them, but you also shouldn’t punish them repeatedly for something they can’t control simply because bads are bad.

The fact that the general argument is “oh but other peoples attacks go onto cooldown” generally ignores the fact that those other moves don’t require positional orientation, don’t require utilizing a different ability first, aren’t based on auto-attacks and aren’t the unique stealth attack system which is always going to be fairly different from any other mechanic because its unique.

In my first post and outline I talked about the change not affecting misses. Since it isnt fair to punish someone with latency issues and miss judging distances. This change would only affect you if you were outplayed with an active block (not aegis), dodge, and blind.

Also with this change I think channeling attacks should break when you enter stealth no matter what. I find it stupid that I can’t be seen but I can still be channeled on.

Dasorine.1964:

Yeah, except for those that like playing backstab style in a game where your meant to be free to choose your build and style

Considering stuff like P/X needs buffing anyway, nerfing an “ok” weapon set in exchange for a buff to a set that already needs buffing is just exchanging a punch in the face for a kick to the head

What your not getting is this would only be a nerf to bads. Good players will adapt and play better. I also mentioned that the change should come with a damage buff so technically if you are a good player this should only be a buff.

On the flipside if other weapon sets did get buffed, wouldn’t that be great?

I would welcome the change because after that kind of change there would be 0 whining over backstab thief (or that person would be laughed off the forums by every class) and other weapon sets would get buffed so we can have more viable builds. As it stands right now I have 0 problems perma stealthing into position to engage with backstab. If you are engaging early enough to get countered (other than aegis) then you were outplayed and should be punished.

The thief should be about finesse and outplaying your opponent with our high mobility and how easy it is to change position without being tracked. I do think with that kind of change a damage boost would be in order to reward good play.

I do agree with reveal being added on evade, block, blind, ect but I don’t agree with the on miss thing. In places like wvw latency could be an issue for some people and I don’t think misjudging range should be punished. It doesn’t take away opening strike from a ranger when they miss but does on evade and block.

Every time I look at one of those videos it makes me think of an infomercial, making turrets look so amazing.

As Anet has been trying to not be like everyone else, I think this should be right up their alley.

When I started playing this game back in beta I always had my eye set on the engi. I had it in my head that I would play a role like the turret class in Global Agenda. Control an area with your turrets and punish anyone that comes in range of them. What I got was turrets that died in pve as soon as I dropped them and on the pvp side aoe made quick work of them, leaving me standing there twiddling my thumbs with almost no utility.

I have been reading some of the turret complaint threads and turret buff ideas and I got to thinking. Realistically what could the devs do in a short period with only traits since that seems to be the preferred method of change these days.

I would start with the grand master trait. As I hear it, the trait doesn’t work properly so that would be a good place to start. Scrap the trait and change it to instead give stacks of turrets. With this trait you would get 3 of each damage turret you equip and 2 of each cc turret you equip. The downside of taking this trait is you would lose your overcharge ability and ability to destroy your turret with F skills. You can still pick your turret up. The upside is you can now put down multiples of each type of turret and use your F skills you otherwise wouldn’t when turrets were deployed without the trait. The turrets would still be as vulnerable as they are currently with no added damage or armor (the damage decrease trait will remain). Also the cooldown of the turrets will be reduced but the cooldown will now be a recharge and wont start till the corresponding turret is destroyed or picked up. If it could work I would like to add a stack back if you pick your turret up. Since there is no overcharge I think it could be balanced.

To round out the build a new trait should be add to the second tier of the tools line. It will give your f1-f4 turret abilities increased potency. For every corresponding unused turret your F ability will gain 30% increased potency. It seems like a lot but to get the most out of it you’re forced to take 50 points and a utility slot up so you can’t really mix it into some of the already potent builds.

Taking both traits should get you a nice balanced build. You can be mobile and use your F skills increased damage so your not 100% kitten when you aren’t set up. When you are set up you get no increased damage on your F skills but you have multiple turrets down and control of your area. It might seem like a lot of damage but keep in mind if you fully utilize those traits you’re most likely not going to have a stun break or any utility outside your weapon. You will also be easy to take out with conditions. It seems very balanced in my opinion and would get people playing some turret builds, maybe.

Edited: Cleaned my drunk rambling up as best I could, lol.

I was gonna ask for a 12 second cd so it matched the swiftness duration but I figured the 0 is closer to the backspace key than the 2 was and I didn’t want to discourage any dev who read the request. It also saves them the time from pressing backspace 2 again for the rune description.

I searched before I made my thread but didn’t get this one in the list. Guess I didn’t need to make a new thread for this.

It is sad that something as simple as this still is not fixed. Can someone not take 30 seconds out of their day and change the 15 into a 10 in the cd line of the coding? I just can not believe no one has had the time in the past 4 months.

No, that would make too much sense. Guess that solves problem number 2. Now to get runes of the centaur internal cd fixed.