Guild Wars 2

if Im ever accused of spamming, i usually just roll with it and tell them ill just spam more the next time i fight them, and you have to ALWAYS “lol” in /say after you down them , and spam said skill they accused you of spamming on their downed body.

This is the easiest way to induce rage upon someone who feels they must whisper you.

RedSpectrum.1975:

attrail.8613:

times have changed man, the state of the game is different. oh and btw the traits do mean a whole lot to the build…its what defines the build not the stats imo, back than you would have had way way less damage.

Traits are imporatant but not as much as you’re making them out to be. My example is in the form of the severely weakened (darn them) sister builds (balanced). They had the same stat spread but depending on the person a couple traits would be switched for others, yet people would still refer to it as the balanced build and not the exact build they ran.

in that instance you are correct, but one cant just pick any trait down the line, Venom share for example would completely define the rest of your build and what you’re aiming for. In the case presented, Strength runes with power of inertia is a vital part of what makes the 2/0/0/6/6 viable, and without that specific trait, its a very similar play style and one would have to judge if it would be optimal without it.

so in the end i think we are actually on the same page here. Several Traits are build defining. traits are important, power of inertia+strength runes+feorcity/ammy change imo is a pretty important part of what makes the specific build in question more viable today than it was a year ago.

times have changed man, the state of the game is different. oh and btw the traits do mean a whole lot to the build…its what defines the build not the stats imo, back than you would have had way way less damage.

Its not the best at any particular thing but you can beat people with it in wvw still probably. Id probably use withdraw over malic.

Does cruuk still use SA line really? Hes a good thief, the first time I fought him in pvp I didnt know who he was, I died and then I was quick to brush it off as a fluke…then I tried again and died! Needless to say it was cool to see some next level reaction times and was a rude awakening to what a top thief looks like.

Damage dealt is greater than any bunker and its obviously the case or nobody would die, but I do think a team of bunkers is better than a team of all zerkers.

Its just the way the mode is designed… to SURVIVE on a node. So builds that survive are probably pretty important whether its balanced or not I dont have an opinion.

Learning all the professions will make you a better player indeed. Especially the squish ones that require you to dodge or look for particular moves or die.

Static.9841:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

yes, i am being defensive, because of the words you all are using. it is rude, not polite. not nice etc.

Really? I’m not even trying to be rude and some people are speaking matter of factly with what’s presented.

Im pretty sure he mostly meant just me, to which I aplogized. Sometimes the truth hurts and it needs to be sugar coated. It is what it is.

5 of any burst is ridiculous…its kind of a dumb argument. 5 earth shakers ommmmggg, 5 zerker staff eles aoe ohmygod. You name it and its ridiculous.

Yup das meeee. And I completely agree that they are great, I never knocked good players. Im saying to never score any points is ridiculous. Ive been anywhere from 500’s to not even on the leaderboard in just a few games. Win and move up 100+ spots or lose and go down 100-. I agree solo queue doesnt mean much.

I do play tpvp, its just with very different groups, my rl friends (one likes to bring his bearbow girlfriend) or with a much better team that could at least score A SINGULAR POINT, and has (not an accomplishment you almost do it the second the game starts) against some of the best players in the game.

This whole things blown out of proportion, getting defensive for what? Play better and you will get more than 0 points thats the truth of the matter

Edit: after reading the post above, I want to aplogize for hurting your feelings and pouring salt on your wounds after a crushing blow to your morale. I usually learn a lot from losses im sure you did too

I often do. Almost everyday. Some are really great and some are only there temporarily. The leaderboards dont mean much when you see someone top 25 with less than 20 games, but some of them are truly great great players.

But to have zero points? Cmon man. Killing someone gives the team 5 points.

You guys were playing so terrible the system thought you were afk. I sometimes fight people who I thought were afk.

Would you wreck him with a 10k killshot? Or would you not use killshot at all?

Turning shadowshot into a two part skill, with backstab like damage on the latter half seems fair. This would make it so landing shadowshot doesnt just do tons of damage instantly but gives you an opportunity to have burst with the second part, which is justified as it can be dodged/blocked and you see it coming.

I can honestly say I like the idea. +1 for thinking of something not completely game breaking….. or maybe I like it because it would be…

The only thing I can say about all that is that d/p is not a problem whatsoever in pvp. I know you were aiming this at wvw, but changing something based on something as unbalanced and free as wvw is probably a bad decision.

Other than that I dont really see a problem with your suggestion assuming shadowshot was properly adusted

Turn black power into a dark field might mess up sword pistol (nobody cares about p/p).
Other than that it would be nice, turn 3 into amove that stealths you after it hits. It costs initiative, has to connect to stealth like cnd (which is so obviously weaker than d/p for that reason).

It might be the new op set, but to clarify I dont think regen is training wheels. A lot of classes have a ton of regen and they are not noob for having it. The main difference is in wvw a thief can just stealth and run away. Which is what any stealth class in any game has ever done lol

If they nerfed it I wouldnt be mad. Its a really long cast time and usually gets you killed jn a team fight, and against anecro Its only really good for getting them off of a node. People who want it nerfed will still die to the thief even if it was, and people who dont think it needs a nerf probably dont have much problems with it.

Its a troll weapon because you only lose to it if you dont see the 15k killshot coming. Its not that they bested you, or if they did best you they bested you while you were fighting someone else.

Its also troll because its all it can do. Its a gimmick. They rage because it takes no skill to one shot someone who is unaware

Youre right evade is broken on someone like a thief, because they have to either dodge everything and win or dodge 99% of everything and get hit by one burst and die. I cant even count how many times ive ACCIDENTLY killed a thief aoeing with my warrior or elementalist

Sartharina.3542:

ens.9854:

I should add that there is a very real possibility that the addition of more stat combos on amulets will be a massive hit to thieves. The real counter to a thief is damage, but currently there is no set between zerk which dies too fast and soldier which does too little damage.

Nothing’s forcing you to wear gear all sharing the same descriptor. Why not run a mix of Zerker and Soldier gear?

because in pvp all you can have is an amulet.

haha i was just teasing dalil, funny video.

scorpion wire spamming skyhammer noob

Honestly I dont see a problem with stealth, but I admit im biased to pvp where its useless but I have some ideas that could make it useful in pvp and also make stealth spam go away. Of course it would require a complete overhaul, tell me what you think carighan as its feeding off your idea of making stealth a class mechanic.

Okay so 1. Of course is to make stealth a class mechanic, it would have to be a long duration, 1-2 minutes. The next thing would be to make shadow refuge the only way to apply stealth while in combat. Make shadow refuge an elite, and turn basilik venom into a utility on a shorter cd with no cast time.

Imo the stun would be necessary to survival as you cant easily stealth anymore nor burst anymore. A few things would need to happen as well, shadow refuge would have to gain the shadows embrace trait as a reliable way to remove conditions, and possible take reduced dmg while in it (makes player try to push you out rather than just cleave you for half your health). You would also need to be able to take stealth off whenever you want too.

Of course this would break a lot of things. Hide in shadows, blinding powder, cloak and dagger, the entire shadow arts trait thats already only viable in one game mode, however ASSUMING its balanced correctly it would make stealth in pvp useful, sneaking to nodes without people seeing you run there or steal buffs etc etc. Cloak and dagger would need to change into a build defining ability or dagger dagger would be so weak.

Imo, avigoris has the easiest solution. Dagger / dagger thieves have an extremely counterable way to keep them unstealthed, and it would make it the single stealth set (I guess s/d has stealth too but youd usually be wasting initiative using it rather than flanking/larcenous and your infiltrator strike).

It would make dagger pistol have extremely low damage because there would be no reliable way to backstab, but meh. Id give that up if it helped bad players. Of course they would complain about something else but thats an entirely different subject

Thieves are op lol.

Thieves need a nerf! Probably need about 5k hp taken off and 20 seconds revealed! They should also move at -50% speed in stealth, afterall they are being sneaky. Going stealth should be their elite and should be broken by any aoe dmg too.

8 humans for pve and 8 asurans for pvp. Thnx anet for screwed up asuran animations/skill range indicators

Whenever I play my asura I get into the top 100..when I dont play my asura…..gg

For thief you have to use all utlity and defensive trait lines to be competitive. thief is an easier class to play with when you have a team, its harder in solo queue.

While warriors can be dealt with more easily than other classes I do agree on your assessment that tanky builds deal way way way too much damage in some situations OR tank way way too easily.

The absolute best d/d build for spvp is……to drop the dagger and add a sword. Kidding aside, I really enjoy d/d but youre going to find that youre just gimping yourself and yoir team.

You go for the standard d/p trait set up 2/6/0/06 and just use a dagger instead I suppose

I can agree with block breaking stealth, even an evade. That makes sense

Post some matches I wanna study thieves in spvp, their role the reasons for doing their actions etc etc. While the combat is exciting to me thats the easier part.

It wastes too much time. If youre stealthing youre not contributing. Pvp is a race against time, you have to down before he gets reinforcements to that node or of he has the node he will be getting points while you sit in stealth and you will have gained nothing

Ozzy Toxin.3074:

attrail.8613:

I think the max amount of stealth can be toned down, but I think the thief would need much more active defense outside of stealth. I play classes on both sides of the spectrum and I know that other thiefs know that at least in spvp going into a team fight mid is almlst a death sentence unless youre actively evading. Stealth doesnt really mean anything as mere aoe that every class is spamming would kill you alone.

Thief would need a couple of things. One would be an active way to clear conditions, right now we have signet of agility which cures one measly condi….on something like a 30 second cd. It could probably be buffed to two condis or maybe an extra condi per enemy in the vicinity up to 5.

Idk guys I guess you can say im biased to spvp. I feel like stealth is useless there so all these changes you guys are suggesting just seems outragous in that setting. Someone suggested for condis to break stealth? Several classes AUTO attacks add bleeds or can proc burning and even poison. Which would absolutely need to change. If a thief was given more ways to fight a condi bomb outside of 30 into shadow arts (a trait line only viable in wvw mind you) then I guess I dont see a problem with it. As of right now, you either go lyssa runes or die…

I have never seen a thief have a problem poping out of stealth and stabbing me to death while im in the middle of a team fight. its one of the reasons I have made this post because I cant turn around and focus my attention on the thief because I literally cant target/keep a target on them because of the frequent altho short bursts into stealth and my target wandering off onto someone else

I can pop wells but that forces me to stand within a small area and they don’t have a very long duration most thieves just wait it out or range me to keep up the damage,
if I am actually keeping one at bay they will just run away wait for cooldowns and it starts all over again

I actually had a 4 minute fight with a thief while I was on my wells build because of the lack of targeting and stealth evading attacks forcing anything that could do damage to be wasted as they stealth just as I cast it with the long and obvious animations -.-

Well I think you took my experiences out of context. As I was talking about specifically structured pvp. I only think that because if you fought a thief on a node for 4 minutes then you basically won the game. He cant cap anything in stealth and if stealths while youre on a node then you will start de capping it or he cant decap it.

Spvp is also different because he isnt going to back stab you for 8k dmg either, but I digress im pretty sure youre talking about wvw which I dont think the game should be balanced around. As it would break the other two game modes.

Can any of you guys point me to some recent actual matches played by an s/d thief pov. Some respected thieves possibly, amon, magic toker, I think coloxeus knows s/d quite well. There are plenty others but havent faced them, its not necessarily the build I am having trouble with, its the decision making, sometimes I feel like im wasting my time, or some classes are just impossible to kill in a reasonable time frame. I just want to see how a good player moves around the map or makes effecient use of their skill set.

While evading everything is cool I sometimes feel like in some particular situations the fight would have been over in seconds if I had just bursted him d/p style.

I think the max amount of stealth can be toned down, but I think the thief would need much more active defense outside of stealth. I play classes on both sides of the spectrum and I know that other thiefs know that at least in spvp going into a team fight mid is almlst a death sentence unless youre actively evading. Stealth doesnt really mean anything as mere aoe that every class is spamming would kill you alone.

Thief would need a couple of things. One would be an active way to clear conditions, right now we have signet of agility which cures one measly condi….on something like a 30 second cd. It could probably be buffed to two condis or maybe an extra condi per enemy in the vicinity up to 5.

Idk guys I guess you can say im biased to spvp. I feel like stealth is useless there so all these changes you guys are suggesting just seems outragous in that setting. Someone suggested for condis to break stealth? Several classes AUTO attacks add bleeds or can proc burning and even poison. Which would absolutely need to change. If a thief was given more ways to fight a condi bomb outside of 30 into shadow arts (a trait line only viable in wvw mind you) then I guess I dont see a problem with it. As of right now, you either go lyssa runes or die…

Guessing you play a ranger….

Depends on the setting. Pvp? Fear. Pve/wvw? Stealth

sigh, you guys continually talk about 1v1 in WvW and WvW is not 1v1. They do not base balance around 1v1’s in WvW guys. im sorry they dont, Stealth is pretty much UNDERPOWERED in PVP, so that goes to show how different two game modes can be. Thieves are not a problem, sorry to burst your bubble.

man my server suckkksss LOL. sorry for your lag man. i would not like that one bit

Even if it were a supposed 20 seconds thats 20 seconds of not decapping or backcapping anything. Waste of time

The kitten that has to do with thieves dude? stay on topic or go back to wow hahaha

Idkkkkk man. Stealth is pretty weak in pvp already

Ill add you today

Stealth is such a liability in spvp im not really sure why its still 4 seconds.

I feel for the aussies I really do. They never get good latency

So ezeriel, you mentioned thieves stealthing off of wild life so I could assume you arent talking about pvp where stealth is so blatantly worthless that you pretty much have to go sword dagger with nothing into the crit tree to be remotely viable.

I think this game should not be balanced around PVE wvw. Wvw is a war, its balanced around numbers not classes. If you died to a solo roaming class as a class better suited for zerging, then that IS balance.

What would win 15 thieves or a group of 15 hammer warriors? The class better suited for zerging thats who would win. Wvw is not 1v1, pvp is where they need to base their balance

Hmmm I think I can assume op doesnt play thief mesmer engi guardian . He either plays necro or ranger. Ele seems unbiased.

As for warrior, probably deal, its hard enough finding a spot for fear me on ones utlity bar anyway

Go ahead and nerf them to the ground, bad players will still be bad and bad players will still be dead alt tabbed complaining on here.

Rogues the best implemented stealth class? Lol not even defending the thief I just thought that was funny.