Showing Posts For evilcherry.1327:
this jump-doubleswitch is plainly unjustifiable. It is an abuse of game mechanics to a ridiculous degree.
If the thief is using heartseeker – aegis.
If the thief is trick shooting – switch to staff.
Wow, you are skewing words to an absurd level.
You cannot justify having a large number of strong boons, including fury, protection, ret, in a PVP scene at 40% uptime.
If guardian damage is, because of this nerf, put to an unacceptable level, then just increase baseline damage accordingly.
What I can never understand is people always want to have active abilities, active abilities, active abilities, and tons of cooldowns. I am happy with autoattacks as long as I got more tools to save everyone else’s kitten, while we already have better than average baseline damage.
If you are saying this is the definition of support class then I’d be happy to bite the bullet.
You’ve heard it hear from evilcherry and Brutaly who thinks he is spot on.
“Guardian…WAaaahhh… is supposed to be …..Support…Waahhh….Anet come to our rescue.”
Why bother posting if you don’t get your facts straight and cant even stay on topic..
Its a huge difference between being supportive and playing as support. if you haven’t figured that out then i understand the illiterate approach you show atm.
I agreed with him on the function of the shout, not the role of the guardian. In fact on that part i disagree, playing crithammer in all aspects of the game and always on the hunt for max crit with mighty blow.
The fact remains, we are a supportive class and shouts are ment to be support tools and SY is/was an exception since the supportive part (conditionremoval) wasn’t in balance with the personal gain, all boons for 17 seconds with 48s cd.
I never say I’m full-time support. I dps, crit, and provide needed support all the time.
I feel this is going back to the active vs passive gameplay discussion. some people just think guardians need some kind of active spike, which to me it is completely unnecessary for a successful guardian – our baseline is already more than enough enough to hold the line if we use our defensive capabilities effectively.
You’ve heard it hear from evilcherry and Brutaly who thinks he is spot on.
“Guardian…WAaaahhh… is supposed to be …..Support…Waahhh….Anet come to our rescue.”
as a 0/0/30/30/10 shout+occasional consec/crithammer I take pride in providing all kinds of support that I can offer. I personally do not care about the boons by SY except the fact that it provides altruistic healing.
Its really, really problematic when some of the playerbase wanted to take away a supportive skill and transform it into an iwin button. If you really need to play less support there are always spirit weapons (and in truth they feel really underwhelming now).
@Evilcherry and Lumines
You guys are spot on.If the groupsupport side (removal of conditions) isnt the mainusage something is very wrong indeed in a skill thats supposed to be supportive.
What it could/should do is lower the cd to 30s, remove all conditions on the team and convert them into two random boons per teammate and fury/quickness for the guardian.
During beta and bwe there were a lot of requests for an offensive shout and SY was (perhaps) arenanets answer but i think the above is a much better solution.
- Agree with lowering CD to 30s
- Remove 1 condition from each and and give the counterpart to the guardian(a la Well of Power)
- I’m extremely vary of quickness. Unless it needed something cleansed to power up it is opening another can of worms – take the history of pet swap+QZ/SB ranger instableed builds.
If you choose guardian and think it is able to actively pwn a fight you have got to the wrong class.
The guardian maxim is always react, defend, and outlast. Otherwise what would be the difference between them and warriors anyway…
Can people try to see the bigger picture and stop whining please. One buff and one nerf.
in Guardian
Posted by: evilcherry.1327
snip
Even though a fix its still a buff that affects balance and as such its an improvement.
I find somewhat pointless to discuss if you are just going to ignore 90% of my argumentation with a snip, anyway…
No I totally disagree with your opinion: a fix is made to a skill not working as intended, the game is balanced by the supposition that skills are working as intended; hence a fix is required and has nothing to do with game balance.
SY is not working as intended from day 1. In fact, when people mashed a buttons to increase a guardian’s own dps it is not working as intended. What we have is a plethora of tools to deal with a wide range of situations, combined with good but never bursty dps.
SY should be treated as ae cleanse and thus should be used in a reactive manner. When it is treated as a IWIN button something has gone wrong.
The direction of the nerf is good – the amount is up for discussion. Say, half cd, half duration (pve or pvp).
My opinion is that the reason for playing an mmorpg shifted at some point or another. Back in the day sure it was about the loot and mobs, but it was also about the community and making a place for yourself within it. Who was I in Ultima Online? That guy with a boat who fished stuff and had a guild castle. Who was I in WoW in vanilla/bc (before the community died)? The most annoying player ever, a rogue who caused wars in low level zones. Who am I in GW2? I’ve yet to figure it out but from a certain standpoint it doesn’t feel like the game is giving you any room to belong.
The player is merely a player within the world, they don’t have a place to claim for their own (not literally virtual ground lol). To some degree this also happened in WoW with the dungeon/raid finder and making questing all single, however, I might also argue that the game still allows you to have a place in it due to world pvp and guilds.
In any case, I think that GW2 needs to add in some more sandbox features, not necessarily change major things, but allow for players to make an identity right now such as something like visible WvW names or customizable homes….player stores etc. The only thing making an identity for yourself is legendaries, simply because they are easy to spot and nobody has them.
TLDR: Player needs to be able to make an identity/place in the world rather than simply walking through it.
I understand where you come from, but I doubt whether the ultimate themepark of GW2 has place for any sandboxy features which does have tangible effect on the game world.
But then if I were the devs I would just add in more shiny gear for people to grind for ad nauseaum.
WoW: Some classes were just unplayable unless slotted into its pigeonhole until 2.0. And I was a paladin.
Given BC is released a bit more than 2 years after the vanilla game I would take it as the measuring stick.
I think one group is talking about the party being an issue because not everyone is getting exp when everyone perform a hit on the same mobs. ( = glitch perhaps? )
and the other group thinks that because of the nerfed mesmer class the dmg dealt is the reason why the wife is falling behind and not the party system being the reason.
So, the issue is not trying to get the wife to said level, it is the possible glitch that not everyone i recieving proper exp. Since it has been tested it is now being SUGGESSTED in the forums.
So from this point of view I am seeing a couple being attacked because they want to suggest a fix or an investigation of some sort. And people are misunderstanding and in turn creating an argument; yes?
As I said I’m actually heavily against any kind of group exp sharing mechanism, with or without a multiplier.
Moot case here: 5 staff elementalists AEing farming on the opposite side of the Orr tunnel, versus a group of 5 players working together in the same area. If there is exp sharing the elementalist group would gain xp much faster; if loot is distributed (a la wow) the group would end up with more loot from 1x to 5x depending on the design.
Grouping is good; grouping because you are screwed for not grouping is bad.
You missed the point. For example, take kiting. Every class has some form of it, but while the ranger and thief are masters of it, with elementalists a close third; while on the other end of the spectrum, guardians and mesmers are seriously lacking in this department.
For another example, the thief has a very limited support option, though it could be a lifesaver if used correctly. A guardian has tons of support unless he specced especially to actually avoid them (zeal/radiance spirit builds, for example, but you still give blinds and vuln), but they seriously lack an panic button to actually prevent wipes.
Yes, everyone does damage and helps the party, just everyone does that differently and not that visibly. But I can’t see how visible if you want utilities to be, unless you want a flashy icon showing that “OMW this rangers does snare!!!!!!!”.
Just borrow someone’s psp and play a few games of Monster Hunter on coop. That’s how you can work together without forcing into a definite role.
Party does not work in your sense, if you truly want to insist this. You can say, on the other hand, everyone in the vicinity is partied, but you are credited if and only if you did considerable damage on a mob.
You may well say partying in the classic sense in this game is dead. OTOH IMHO MMOs are already drifting from partying for the sake of it. You aren’t given tangible benefits for partying, which is actually good, or else everyone is forced to party which is even worse – power levelling (and arguing about what is power levelling and what is not), exp leeching, and partying but not working together for a higher xp/loot multiplier being a few of such cases.
The benefit of partying is 1. a private chatroom 2. able to stay together in the same instance. As I said you are actually in good shape here – if you need a few more levels, dip into crafting to make that up.
(edited by evilcherry.1327)
The party system does not confer any advantage to anyone. Essentially everyone still plays for his own.
If you really need a few levels for your wife I suggest just let her toon do some crafting to catch up. You got the supply of 2 players and it would greatly help.
(edited by evilcherry.1327)
While I understand the reasoning behind all these, the problem lies at able to speed run.
Mobs should never be skipped, unless it is part of the design. That means bosses like Kohler must be meticulously beaten every run, howler trash should be pulled every one. Only when player skill has little bearing in clearing speed (save not wiping) speed runs would never be eliminated.
i agree with your argument, but Its question of proportions.
1 autoattack
1 fast cd attack with lower effect\lower control
8 slow cd with greather effect\greather controlwill be surely more action oriented, whitout compromise the guardians nature.
For now only hammer and scepter use this proportion, and i know that is for the slowest autoattack.
Once in vanilla wow people made a macro to one-key a rotation of say 5 abilities.
We should not move backwards. Give me a cookie-cutter key, and then make everything else situational anyday.
Nor ARPGs base their characters on 10 keys. They are based on 1 or 2.
I would advocate for the opposite: 9 reactive abilities, and leave us with an autoattack which is slow in DPS but perfectly spammable in any situation.
It is not boring, it is not static, it is just reactive.
This is more psychological warfare than anything else. You are not that damaging, but it works on the instinct of people kittening out when they got hit, but you press on and gain momentum.
That said it could be improved by a GS/Hammer warrior to lead the charge, hammer kb, fear, and move in the Guardian glassstaff to mop everything up.
@Relentliss
It is not undynamic. It is reactive: you can let the opponent play as he wants, you basically let him have his rhythm, but he can do anything if he don’t hurt you.
Both the Greek and the Spaniards won the Euro, but here people just accuse the Greek as playing poor football/having a poor style. They, as well as the guardian, have its way to win it, and if you do not appreciate there is always the Spain.
@op and a lot of posters in the forum
I just don’t see this as a problem.
The guardian playstyle is going to be highly reactive: you outwit your opponent, he can throw anything at you, but he cannot find a way to go through, since whenever he throws at you you just do not feel hurt/got out of it/made him a fool of it.
On the other hand the warrior playstyle is very proactive: I stun you here, interrupt you there, I just won’t let you play, and will blast you back to respawn before you can try this. But then you have few reactive ways to play a warrior, just like you have few proactive ways to play the guardian.
To me I just treat my class having one autoattack and 9 utilities.
Just make them all leash. Make players kill them: if you want to QQ, treat it as part of the boss encounter, and think again.
@Hezkore
On the other hand, what you are asking for is simply nonviable.
Just ask yourself how can a game introduce the concept of holy trinity to casual players within a dungeon setting. It won’t do itself: the transititon from a zerg to a trinitarian mode of execution does not manifest itself as dungeon difficulty increases, unless you are specifically told how you are supposed to build and play your character (which is, curiously, what wow 5.0 does today). Rather, it is the need to clear the dungeon itself pressing enough for players to read up and learn how to do encounters properly, and utilize a effective build. IMHO It is the job of the devs to communicate such concepts to the community, hoping it would pick up itself and be transmitted within as some collective knowledge.
I think rather than complaining dungeons are too hard, it would be better to try analyzing their play. Maybe you just stay back in LA and watch your family play; maybe the problem is in their builds; maybe they don’t help out everyone else properly; maybe they don’t try to dodge out of the way. As a seasoned player you are unfortunately burdened with this responsibility, and not to expect the game to help you out (unless, we want to dumb down builds to wow 5.0 standards.)
I think the maxim of the guardian is having very little direct control (We have only 2 interrupts: GS pull and Hammer KB), but have good options to avoid damage altogether.
Daze is really OP. Change back the symbol, give it shorter Retaliation (1sec or so), and remove Retaliation on SYS and SYG to compensate (which are the main source of near-infinite retaliation).
Autoattacking is just fine, considering most guardian abilities are situational, and we have very limited burst capability anyway. The staff, which you have to cycle between 4 abilities constantly, is already getting too clunky; 1 and 2 can be combined to a narrow cone or a something similar to a bouncing beam. I prefer a good spammable autoattack and 4 abilities which has its own situational use, over CD-watching, button mashing anytime.
Having every boss drop tokens is fine, as long as people cannot farm for the full set or the weapon without killing the last boss. This could be done with a two-token system: Minor bosses drop only mass-produced tokens and end bosses drop the “keystone part” which should be required for chest, leg and weapon pieces.
It might be even better for the end boss of each path to drop a different keystone part. Make people do all paths instead of deliberately doing only the easier paths.
I don’t think the current system is very different from what you see from visual novels.
Its more like a case of culture shock.
@Stobor
Because of the lack of trinity, everyone should expect to either tank for a few hits or kite for a bit.
A glass cannon build is just NOT suitable for dungeons.
Combat, Dynamic Events... what's the point if they're easy mode?
in Suggestions
Posted by: evilcherry.1327
I agree, but things should be done in a more gradual manner.
Just add in some area denial mechanics to dragon/large DEs and try to see the result.
(to be fair, plague carriers are very, very good area denials. Too bad people just rez those bots…)
Not much.
If you know how to use the spikes properly, and a few CCs/good DPS, the mobs should be down in no time.