Showing Posts For grahf.7540:
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You type all that, and we still don’t know if the OP is talking PVE or PVP. If it’s PVP then I stand by the statement that air/fire/tempest is terrible. PVE, no idea.
d/f Tempest with air/fire/tempest is a weird build. You need to go air/water/tempest or probably better air/earth/tempest. Of course air/fire/tempest will be squishy.
I will post my full build soon, I haven’t perfected it. In the meantime a good starting point is the metabattle D/F build.
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Tempest_-_Celestial_Auramancer
For PVP I don’t think that Rune works very well. Basically the best Rune choices Runes IMO for a Bruiser cele Tempest (which I believe to be by FAR the strongest Tempest).
Rune of the Soldier
Rune of Leadership
Rune of Durability
IMO cele bruiser (which is a ‘hybrid’ build) is the best approach to Tempest. D/F. I find it good at 1v1s and in teamfights. In 1v1 it is a stalemate against ‘bunker’ classes, which is usually ok. But against any squishy class, DH, Thief, Ranger, you totally destroy 1v1. You have huge self-sustain. If you run Diamond skin, you will obliterate Reapers/Necros 1v1 too. I’ve had so much salt from Reapers lately… ("Anti-condi ele, soooo cheap… etc)
Maurader fresh air is playable but I don’t think it’s near optimal.
Loboling, I like your condi removal ideas for Overloads. I really doubt they will ever make 2 stacks of stability baseline though. Maybe 1 stack baseline, and trait for 2-3?
My 2 cents for basic changes Tempest really needs:
Water Overload needs a huge buff. As it is, it’s a deathtrap. Baseline stability a la Earth Overload would be nice (1 or 2 stacks?). And the bulk of the healing should come DURING the channel, not at the end. Even then, I’m not sure it’s enough to make me use it. I’ve heard of people talk of invulnerability during the channel. That’s probably too much but something serious needs to change with this skill.
Actually, how about chilling enemies during Water Overload? At least that way you aren’t totally helpless offensively during the channel. And it would be a better escape skill.
Secondly, Rebound needs attention. Higher healing numbers can fix this skill, really it isn’t that hard. I think the healing numbers could be 2x-3x more, easily. And you need to get a better payoff if the heal does not proc, maybe 50% healing + the aura?
I haven’t been killed by a DH in a LONG time. Part of it is all the reflects in the Tempest kit… But the big thing is using Focus 5 properly. DH sitting on/near a point – you can bet he’s trapped it (I know I do!). So just walk in with Focus 5 popped and you negate 100% of his trap damage and most of his utilities.
If he throws down a second round of traps you’ll have to mitigate that with dodges and/or Overload Earth. If you are playing a good Tempest build you have massively more sustain than any DH, so after his traps are down you just kill him with combined condi/power pressure. Honestly I think D/F Ele does extremely well against DH. Don’t run D/D, it doesn’t seem to fit well with the current meta.
Agreed and it needs way more than boonsharing Fire 4/ boonrip Fire 5 to be useful. Well, at least in PVP.
And for the love of god, please change the sounds for it! I still can’t believe they are not placeholder.
I don’t feel like it ever had a niche.
Got a link? I don’t see any Tempest w/ Cavalier/Scrapper on metabattle.
Phantaram has an interesting spvp tempest build that i think is on metabattle. Could probably adopt it for roaming wvw as well. Ele for roaming as tempest looks to be pretty good on paper because you can build to be somewhat tanky (cavalier’s + scrapper runes + huge protection uptime) yet still put out some good damage with overloads.
I am starting to warm to PVP Tempest. But Warhorn, nope. It’s simply terrible compared to other offhands, particularly Focus. Try your same build, again with Focus and you’ll just do better…
You just be banned IMO just for asking this. Ruining other’s experiences just because you are a bit kittened off about HoT is selfish, childish behaviour. Please take a step back and even just play a different game or do something else with your time.
Reaper is definitely one of the counters to DH, true. Tons of HP, can sustain through traps. AND can put out lots of different conditions, which is the main weakness of DH – no reliable condi cleanse.
That said, playing DH I’ve only extremely rarely been killed by Reaper. Most of them play GS and they just get dazed and kited to death. I think once people learn Reaper better, it will counter DH very well.
Am I misinterpreting here or are you saying WH is a good weapon for PVP? IMO it is by far the worst ele off-hand for PVP. It is so godkitten slow… The skills are only useful for hitting stationary targets. Actually I don’t think the devs ever intended it to be used in PVP. It’s the only logical conclusion.
Tempest isn’t bad for open world and warhorn isn’t bad for a support weapon. Is that simple of enough to understand?
Anyways, I don’t really care about PvE. For PvP and WvW, Tempest functions very well if you know how to think outside the box.
I 100% agree that Anet having poor patch notes and communication.
The last year I played a lot of Heroes of the Storm. Initially, Blizzard was very closed off with their communication, similar to Anet. But now, accompanying the patch notes is tons of explanation! It’s incredibly detailed and goes into their thinking for the balance changes and what they are hoping to promote/remove.
Check out what I mean.
http://us.battle.net/heroes/en/blog/19893628/heroes-of-the-storm-patch-notes-october-6-2015-10-6-2015
Look at that, and scroll down to the hero section. Most of them have ‘Developer Comments’, which goes in-depth on the changes.
Frankly this is very much needed by Anet, especially if they are serious about GW2 PVP esports…
I don’t think new players have any idea what hotjoin is.
It’s a good video. Not sure how people can say they learn nothing, well in that case you already knew most of the DH counters.
I think the main thing that the video misses is that it is very rare that you are fighting a DH 1v1 and he is only dropping 1 trap. In that scenario, yeah of course it is easy to dodge out of. But if he is placing traps intelligently, you can be smashed by 3-4 traps (dazed most of the time) in quick succession. During that time you are probably being bombed by his LB and maybe pulled by Justice. AND there is probably a big teamfight going on with lots of other kitten happening. Oh and if the DH had time to bunker up on the point, probably his traps are off CD now and you’ll have to deal with a 2nd wave of traps and you have no dodges or escapes left.
So while I am not discounting the validity of the counters in the video, I do think in real-world conditions it is never that easy.
watch this. you’ll feel a bit silly when you realise how easy the traps are to avoid.
Absolutely. I am in favor of more team DM maps. But this one is pure trash. Why can’t we have an interesting layout in a TDM map?
Just off the top of my head, imagine a TDM map with Temple of the Silent Storm mechanics. Some buffs would randomly appear in different parts of the map. Thus there would be goals which would move the fight around rather than have it cluster in the same area. I mean, the sky is the limit. Courtyard was basically the most simple possible TDM map implementation.
I am quite happy with this map being removed. It was a horribly designed map forcing people into tight spaces where whoever spammed the most AOE won. Ultimately the map just snowballed from there and it would virtually always be a blowout after that.
I like the idea of team DM, but it needs a more open map.
Where can I watch that? I did a search, couldn’t find anything on Youtube or ESL website or Twitch channel.
I take it you didn’t watch the ESL. Hint: Watch how Abjured handles the DH guards.
Other than fixing outright bugs or unintended functionality, I agree that the meta should settle for at least 1 month before balance changes come in. Otherwise Anet is actually setting the meta for us. Not good.
I think patchnotes have to be better. Otherwise we infer what they mean by ‘healthy gameplay’. Why not just tell us the exact reason the Runes and Amulet needed to go?
This is funny. Everyone said a few days ago no one would run Dragon’s Maw after it’s CD was just increased by 20%. Renewed Focus for sure, right? Turns out it’s still pretty good. That is a good nerf by Anet since now there are several competitive elites for Guardian (poor Ele doesn’t have a single one!)
I think all the idea that you should burn all your dodges/stunbreaks/teles against a single trap is pretty misguided. As a DH, that’s exactly what I’d like you to do. Then you have no dodges left for my Might-enhanced True Shot, and my Justice pull back into the traps.
The only counters to a GOOD DH trapper right now is to a. Kill them without triggering any traps (difficult but doable if you are careful and have numbers advantage). b. Ignore that point and concentrate on getting the other points. c. Send your pet/minions in there to trigger traps first.
There is no question DH is a top-tier build right now for Conquest. Whether it needs further nerfs is absolutely impossible to say without seeing metrics that only Anet has access to. Let’s just leave them to do their work.
(edited by grahf.7540)
That’s good to hear. Maybe at the same time you can increase the spread speed of Wildfire too? Like many of the WH skills, it’s just so slow.
FYI, this is something we’re aware of and do indeed want to fix. The issue with it is a bit more in-depth, however, so it’s taking a bit longer.
The build is absolutely not crap, regardless of how many scrubs you killed.
Purification is better than shelter.
Its an 11,865 heal on zerk specs.
Its a blind
Its a daze
Its on a 24s cd
You just need to know how to use it properly, because its strong as kitten.
Shelter doesn’t compete
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Dragonhunter_-_MeditrapperMeditrapper is plain crap, I killed so many meta scrubs yesterday it’s so laughable.
Absolutely great advice. One of the few things that can screw up my well-placed traps is if a pet runs in and sets them off. So Rangers and MM Necros as actually a pretty good counter to DH Trapper.
If there is a point being held by a particularly good DH, or even worse, two DH I’d just advise your team to ignore the point. Concede it and get the other two points. DH are not mobile and if they choose to leave their point they will lose much of their advantage from the pre-built trap setup.
You might try using an offensive melee pet (cats/pigs) to get in and trigger their traps, but once you do you’re gonna need to get right in there with them to clobber the DH before he runs off or resets them. Trying to pull a ranged duel with them will get you killed if its a typical DH longbow build. Your biggest hit has a telegraph that lets them know when to use their missile-canceling arrow to shut it down and hit you hard.
Like all Guards he’s got a short lifebar with lots of self-heal, so spike damage (power or condition) will really dig deep into their cooldowns. Watch for the ‘chicken hop’ with the glowing wings popping out of their back. When you see that their innate regeneration is gone and they’ve probably just blown their last heal so you’re getting real close at that point.
I do think it would be cool to explode traps on command, but let’s face it – anet is having serious problem balancing traps as it is. I wouldn’t want another huge new variable in there for them to deal with.
Auramancer isn’t even a very good build anyway so it is a very sad move to nerf it further.
The pet had nothing to do with why I chose the Rune set. I chose it for the stats. They could have just removed the pet and replaced that with more stats and I’d have been fine with it.
The pet was mostly useless anyway so I am not seeing any real reason to remove it though.
I don’t know about masteries in PVP but it would be really cool to have gliding be a ‘thing’ on new PVP maps.
I haven’t seen this Rune recommended in any meta builds… I was running it and getting pretty good results. But it didn’t seem OP in any way. Why remove it?
Purification is incredibly strong, agreed. I take it over Shelter. If you can set up a trap, wait 15 seconds or so until an enemy arrives to the point, as soon as they activate it you can drop another one. It makes you incredibly resilient, considering the enemy will be dazed/blinded so much – and you’ll be healed to full even if you are in a 1v2.
I like Shelter a lot too but I think right now Purification is a better fit for Conquest. I can’t speak for ESL high-level play, but where I’m at it’s performing very well.
Mitigating damage > healing. And shelter does both. You can block 100k damage in 2 seconds, but can’t take the hit, survive and heal back up from that.
Shelter is love. Shelter is life
For run of the mill spvp this trap is exceedingly strong because you are rarely facing high levels of coordinated burst where shelter shines the most.
I have been solo queuing with DH, Reaper and Revenant and having great success. Much less so with Tempest.
I’ll give your exact build a shot. But with the amount of chill Reapers, condi Scrappers out there I have been getting condition pressured a LOT. More than pre-HoT for sure.
Interesting build. I prefer sword/focus and I take virtues, not valor but otherwise it’s similar.
I kinda feel like one slot needs to be Contemplation of Purity for the condi cleanse though.
I switched to Renewed Focus last night but didn’t really like it. Without instant cast virtues, its hard to spam your virtues off before popping your elite for the recharge. And honestly as DH I have not been getting focused that much to need the invuln.
I went back to Dragon’s Maw and it’s still actually pretty good even with the increased CD. The might stacks are huge. And even if people dodge out of it, use a stunbreak or whatever – that usually means that my followup burst will hit them without issue.
Tonight I’m going to try GS instead of my usual offhand sword+focus. But I have a feeling I’ll miss the teleport too much…
The tooltip could use a rework. It shouldnt say"spread boons you have to allies", and then in the fine print say "well, actually only might and fury. Why not just say “spread might and fury to allies?”
I wasn’t aware of the condi cleanse on Jalis heal. That could make this more interesting for sure.
The Mallyx trait you mention though, that transfers conditions – I don’t really understand. The text says this:
“Chance when struck to copy all conditions currently on you to nearby foes for a few seconds.”
It sounds like this doesn’t actually cleanse you at all, it doesn’t transfer conditions. It just copies them. So it’s an offensive bonus to having condis on you, doesn’t really help you deal with the damage itself.
Good video and interesting build.
My concern is (correct me if I’m wrong) there doesn’t seem to be any condition cleanse in the build. So I feel like this might look much better on paper than in a real PVP match with Necros, Engis, burn Guards etc.
I do understand that anet has intentionally given Rev a general weakness with no easy condi cleanse, but there are a few options. From weakeast to strongest, 1 is a cleansing on F1 swap trait in Invocation, 2 is the Herald heal skill (condis heal you during it), 3 is running Mallyx. I am not super experienced at PVP Rev yet, but I feel like at least one of these is a must pick.
Jails heal is a Condi cleanse.
Plus if you trait corruption you can get a 3% dps bonus for every Condi on you and have a chance to transfer condis when you are hit.
Pretty sure it’s intentional. My Rev shield (you get upon unlocking your first point in Herald) has only 3 stat choices, and they are weird ones… Celestial and two more I forget.
Thanks for sharing the build. I did try it for 5 games last night…
Definitely it is extremely hard to die with this build. In teamfights if you concentrate on only using earth overload, you generally won’t be interrupted. The problem is this locks you out of earth for 20sec… So in general overloading still might not be worth it. I feel like the build might be most effective if you do not ever overload unless in a favorable situation (2v1, 3v1 in your favor). In that sense it’s a ‘win-more’ skill.
In terms of damage output it is quite low, as expected. It is hard to kill someone unless you can off an Overload Air without being interrupted (very rare).
I will reiterate what I said earlier in the thread: support Tempest can be fairly powerful and useful. But it requires good team coordination. I feel like this build could succeed in ESL where a pro team coordinates to benefit most from auras, shouts etc.
In solo queue I found it a very helpless situation where I felt like I had little effect on the outcome of the match. It’s like the opposite of being a carry. You can win with this build if the rest of your team is solid, but if they are somewhat weak, you are pretty much screwed. Personally I enjoy having a more active role in fights that can turn entire matches around.
Build Editor hasn’t been updated yet for Invigorating Torrents, but here is the Immortal Tempest build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQFAWn0XC9XiVYCOYCcYilNAzdv+XPsErgUwIY4BEAugA-TJRJwAAeAA02fg7FA4XZAAThe key thing about Staff Bunker Eles is that Earth gives near perma-weakness (it’s not permanent if they dodge) via auto-attack vs 1 enemy, on top of crit-immunity (which completely negates any Precision and Ferocity your opponent may have invested in). That perma-weakness is what lets you completely repel any single enemy, regardless of their skill level or build. I mean come on, you’re already immune to crits and (practically immune to) conditions – how does a single player stand any chance of forcing you off if they also have to deal with weakness? And they also have to worry about their own health – you still do pretty good damage even though you’re a bunker.
The key thing about Tempest that enhances Staff Bunker Ele is that Shouts are better than Cantrips: more heals, protection, cleansing, and Magnetic Aura while you’re camping Earth. And having Overload Earth without sacrificing any utility slots is very nice. And having protection reduce damage by 40% instead of 33% is also nice.
Pre-HoT Staff Bunker Eles needed to switch into Water and Fire regularly for additional heals, evades, and AOE pressure; Earth + Cantrips did not give you everything you needed.
It’s disappointing. I liked Dragon’s Maw but that is a pretty big nerf. So I’ll take Renewed Focus, fine.
The rest of the nerfs are fairly minor and I don’t think change the strength of DH too much.
I am not glass cannon, running Marauder and Ogre Runes… But I regularly crit from 7.5k-12k. I’m very satisfied with that, for this build.
Gravedigger is so slow… Easy to dodge. BUT in overloads you are discouraged from dodging.
Looking for this info too. Google searching provided nothing.
I’m looking for this as well, looks to be pretty amazing on a support revenant.
I’m struggling to understand how this couldn’t be fixed yet. But it doesn’t really matter, even if it was fixed who would run Warhorn?
Traps still do a kitten-ton of dmg. I played a bunch of PVP last night, which was apparently after these nerfs (didn’t know anything was nerfed) and I still did my usual 500k+ dmg and almost never died. I didn’t notice any changes…
Your analysis is spot-on. But this is the exact same analysis we were giving by the bucketful after BWE3 and still virtually nothing changed.
BTW I like the idea of Rebound just recharging your overload. Simple. Makes overloads more usable in a pinch as a stunbreak. It should probably have a lower cool-down too.
There has been some talk of a balance patch prior to the start of the PVP ranked season. So maybe they will consider fixing Tempest then? But make no mistake, there are big problems with the entire spec, not just overloads. Warhorn is one of the least effective weapons in the game and shouts in general are meh.
I play quite a lot of PVP and and finding 4-6 guardians in a single game is extremely rare. You may have just had a weird RNG string of games.
I think guardian has been quite strong for awhile, and it has been pretty kitten common. With the bunker and burn builds, being very solid and relatively easy to play, now the DH trap build is added to that.
I do think people will learn to counter it… Meta needs time to settle, as others have said. But yeah, thieves, staff eles and rangers have a really, really bad time against trap DH.
I don’t think that DH should be nerfed. I do not play DH. I play rev, staff ele and engi.
The amount of people who have just started playing guardian now though is absolutely ridiculous. In conquest there are always now at least 4 guardians in every game, sometimes 3 on a team which should normally be fairly rare rather than every second game.
Mind sharing your full build?
Tempest is a dream-come-true for Earth / Water / Arcana Bunker Support Celestial Staff Elementalists in sPVP. Replace Arcana with Tempest: no more wasting dodges to proc Evasive Arcana and constantly switching attunements to maximize benefit from Arcana.
With Shouts instead of Cantrips, you now remove 2 conditions (instead of 1) per utility slot. You also get Protection, burst heals, and Auras – all of which Cantrips lacked. You get an Armor of Earth 2.0 (Overload Earth) every 20 seconds, and it doesn’t even take up a slot! Vanilla Bunker Ele was always immune to crits in Earth attunement, but now your utilities give you enough healing, cleansing, and protection to pretty much never need to switch out of Earth! If you get grossly outnumbered, you still have the good old Unsteady Earth to cover your escape while you switch into Water to recover. Except now you also have Overload Earth to hasten your escape! (It is unfortunate that Lightning Flash must be sacrificed, but one cannot have everything.)
In a team fight, both Fire and Air have excellent damage options. And everything your Shouts give you can be SHARED TO 5 ALLIES! All that protection, heals, regen, vigor, condi-cleanses, etc.
And if you want swiftness, you have Earth 2 into Air 5, Air 4, and your Overloads.
Constant source of Regen, Vigor, Protection, and heals. Immune to crits. Practically immune to conditions. Respectable access to damage, swiftness, stability, and stun-break.
Field tested – pretty overpowered bunker! Just…no Lightning Flash.
Good video and interesting build.
My concern is (correct me if I’m wrong) there doesn’t seem to be any condition cleanse in the build. So I feel like this might look much better on paper than in a real PVP match with Necros, Engis, burn Guards etc.
I do understand that anet has intentionally given Rev a general weakness with no easy condi cleanse, but there are a few options. From weakeast to strongest, 1 is a cleansing on F1 swap trait in Invocation, 2 is the Herald heal skill (condis heal you during it), 3 is running Mallyx. I am not super experienced at PVP Rev yet, but I feel like at least one of these is a must pick.
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