Guild Wars 2

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

mahariel.4981:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

See, I find playing warrior to be boring. To me, it takes practically no skill to play. (That’s not intended as a slur at anyone, I realize there are people that enjoy playing the class, this is just my personal take on it.) I find it way too simple, and very much a spam-auto-attack-to-win type class. I kill too fast and take like no damage…and I’m only a 62. It’s a snoozefest for me.

Warrior is absolutely not spam autoattack to win. You need to maintain a rotation of vulnerability stacking, burst skills and completing axe autoattack chains in between times that these other things are on cooldown to maintain good DPS. If you just spam greatsword auto, your DPS plummets, and if you just spam axe auto you’ll have ~15% less DPS than a properly played warrior, plus you won’t be adding much vulnerability so it’s probably closer to ~20% less DPS.

Note this is for dungeons, in open world I can literally just do a hundred blades and everything melts, but open world is a giant pile of faceroll anyway unless you start soloing champions.

I don’t dungeon on my warrior (generally prefer my ele, or my mes depending on mood and need). Don’t run axe main hand either.

Well of course it’s going to be boring if you don’t make an effort to play it properly.

Axe 4 is much more spammable than FGJ if you want fury, and it opens up a slot for banner of discipline for soloing bosses so you can go 4sig + disc.

Come back to me about micromanagement when you’re using greatsword/axe+mace, have to go to your trait loadout, swap slashing power to axe mastery, forceful greatsword to deep strikes, open your inventory, swap greatsword for longbow, use signet of fury for adrenaline and then use F1 for a fire field, press 3 for blast finisher, swap in warhorn, press 5 for blast finisher, drop a banner of discipline and then press 3 to aggro Alphard to where you’re standing all in the period of a few seconds.

Got infracted in the ranger thread despite not saying anything disrespectful, GG.

“I don’t show people respect until they give me a reason to” does not equal a rude post, it’s a statement of fact.

Traiting properly?, you mean so they don’t die or so they do max damage?

For maximum damage. This means spotter and traited frost spirit.

dead equals 0 DPS

Incorrect. Being dead does not reset your damage per second to zero, what it instead does is allow the bad player in PVT who is “tanking” hits to actually catch up to the dead player’s DPS which is gradually dropping but is still higher than the PVT user. Depending on how long the zerker was up, the fight might even end and the PVT’er still didn’t catch up.

but i can survive far better than those “elitist” that i have to res every boss almost. Stop being elitist kittens.

And I survive far better than most useless pugs and end up soloing or duoing bosses because they either all died or can’t perform the skip so I just start without them.

The elitists among us would have us believe they’re doing us some great favor showing us how to play a game more efficiently. It’s funny, because in real life I’m very efficient, but when I stop to relax for the evening the very last thing I care about is efficiency. I believe more players are like this than are speed runners.
My advice to you OP is to find a nice casual guild, and enjoy dungeons without worrying about a small minority of elitists who think their way to play is “the” way to play.

Clearly, when I took a group yesterday through SE p2 (you know, the one nobody does? I took a group through it for their DM), took a friend through Arah p2 as a duo and took a whole group through Arah p2 a few weeks ago I wasn’t doing them any favours at all.

The point of greatsword is to use the 2/3/5 burst and then swap back axe mainhand to keep up steady DPS, don’t just camp greatsword.

Dual-wielding axes is fine when soloing easy champions because it allows you to stack fury, but for harder ones you want off-hand sword, and for group content you want the vuln stacking on off-hand mace.

Axe/mace + axe/warhorn or axe/mace + axe/sword might be a good choice for you, just roll the 30/25/0/10/5 build, swap out slashing power for axe mastery and forceful greatsword for deep strikes. Take empowered in tactics for X%+ damage boost.

Try fighting the COE golem without reflect or the Shoggroth (tar) in Arah p1, control is king there from saving party members from eating projectiles and getting knocked back.

In case you can’t be bothered to check, CC works through the golem’s defiant and stops him from using heavy attacks (ANet for the love of god don’t “fix” this, it makes it a legitimately interesting fight) and the tar goes back underground every 1/4 of its HP but if you chain immobilises you can continue to DPS it down.

I actually laughed a little at this entire thread. I don’t play a ranger, but do you people not see the problem with the fact that Rangers have to use a very specific weapon set and pet combo just to do a “decent” (which, apparently, is still pretty laughable compared to most other classes) amount of damage? AFAIK, no other class gets kittened this hard.

Is it also a problem that warriors are required to run at least a mainhand axe to do decent damage? Of course not, stop trying to make out rangers are the only class who are expected to be using certain weapons.

And the bolded word choices say volumes about you as a person.
While I have no issues with speed clearers running with speed clearers, and the more casual players playing with other casual players, it’s how you’ve repeatedly ‘offered’ your ‘advice’ that speaks to your intolerance and inflexibility.
Besides, the OP was discussing dungeoning in general, not speed clears specifically.

And I am telling them why rangers are booted. If you’re getting repeatedly kicked for being a bearbow, the answer is not to carry on being a bearbow, it’s to learn why and take the advice on board. If you’ve then decided you want to carry on running a leech build, just make sure to join casual runs or guild runs instead since they’ll either be oblivious or just not care.

Segregation is acceptable when people are not meeting the criteria of a speed run, which is generally experience and an efficient build.

Same again with casual runs, segregating speed clearers like myself from more relaxed players is perfectly acceptable, because the two groups are incompatible.

I am trying to tell you rangers can become more accepted in to the PUG meta, but you are all instead trying to justify your leeching playstyles, demonstrating that you must enjoy being discriminated against because of the lack of effort you are making to remedy the issue.

Personal attacks aside, in no way shape or form did I state I do not want to improve the Quality of Life (QoL) for players having troubles with the Ranger. I do howerver think they should be aware that there are many players out there who have also seen the issues, but have helpful solutions to help mitigate the issue at hand. This does not involve a “change it or get kicked” philosophy however, but moreso an explanation on how “x” works more efficiently than “y”.

tl;dr melee weapons are higher DPS, feline pets are higher DPS than bears, that is why you should use them.

I have told the OP why rangers are oppressed. I have now had mediocre players tell me how their [size]bow + [pet] build is good for groups despite it irrefutably dealing less damage than a sword/warhorn ranger with spotter and frost spirit.

Want to call me rude? Go ahead? Not interested in learning from me? Sure. But it’s the very people like yourselves who are responsible for rangers being hated. So clearly you’re not interested in improving the average player’s perception of your class and reducing the amount of discrimination directed at them.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

See, I find playing warrior to be boring. To me, it takes practically no skill to play. (That’s not intended as a slur at anyone, I realize there are people that enjoy playing the class, this is just my personal take on it.) I find it way too simple, and very much a spam-auto-attack-to-win type class. I kill too fast and take like no damage…and I’m only a 62. It’s a snoozefest for me.

Warrior is absolutely not spam autoattack to win. You need to maintain a rotation of vulnerability stacking, burst skills and completing axe autoattack chains in between times that these other things are on cooldown to maintain good DPS. If you just spam greatsword auto, your DPS plummets, and if you just spam axe auto you’ll have ~15% less DPS than a properly played warrior, plus you won’t be adding much vulnerability so it’s probably closer to ~20% less DPS.

Note this is for dungeons, in open world I can literally just do a hundred blades and everything melts, but open world is a giant pile of faceroll anyway unless you start soloing champions.

~600 DPS higher than my burst damage skill (as in, hundred blades, not the literal burst skill), and ~2,500 DPS higher than my axe auto.

And it cleaves.

And no banner of discipline.

But apparently warriors are OP.

Watch my solo here:

Take note of the lag and sloppy weapon rotations. When I watch it back I literally find myself cringing at how close some of the dodges are (seriously, screw having to connect to ****ing dallas to play).

Now are you honestly saying camping range and pewpewing is more interesting than living on the edge like that?

bielerad.7263:

I was and was too squishy and not doing as much damage as I do now as condition damage with a short bow. I do much more dmg with a short bow and am able to survive a lot better than if i do the zerker thing that everyone is so focused on.

this whole biased play style against rangers is absolutely ridiculous.

Sorry, but speed clearers aren’t interested in carrying bearbows, or any ranged player full stop. Bearbows get kicked from my groups as quickly as warriors with longbows.

So if you actually make an effort to be useful (spoiler alert – condition damage isn’t useful), welcome aboard.

Otherwise, stop wasting the time of speed clearers.

I actually find it kind of depressing nobody will ever be able to play that scale again (as if ANet are going to unlock it).

Quite fitting that it would happen in fractals of all places, levels above 50 now being lost to the mists.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/external?l=http%3A%2F%2Fyoutu.be%2FZFZwEBDaL2w

No zerkers. Full tanks and healers.

Not getting downed, soaking hits. Completely passive gameplay.

It’s entirely possible right now in this game, but watching that does that honestly look like stimulating gameplay? How many of you got hard over the big green numbers?

Not even going to bother reading that block of text, so I’ll just tell you up front ANet don’t have a dungeon team.

The reason there is a stigma towards rangers is because almost all of them are longbow/shortbow with bear pet, which is basically worst DPS weapon paired with worst DPS pet.

The more of you who start taking sword/warhorn and feline pets in to dungeons, the faster you’ll clear the ranger stigma.

As far as I’m aware, while some guys might pretend to be girls in game to get free stuff, from my last nine of years of using the internet, it’s not something that really happens on forums.

Dropping by to say I’m a guy who plays the game with girls who have all demonstrated they can play at a high level, so it’s not even like girls are just casuals (or w/e the stereotype is, I dunno).

Or they’ll just fill it with unskippable dialogue sequences, make the mobs spam their anti-meta skills (imagine – entire dungeon of elite gorillas) and make the reward bad so nobody will do it anyway.

How can you remove difficult mechanics when most bosses have zero mechanics anyway?

How carebear do you want this game to get when people blitz through almost every single dungeon already?

10/20 is trash, use 0/30/0/25/15 or 10/30/0/20/10.

Domination III, Dueling II, IV, XI (I think), Inspiration II, VIII, Illusions III. If you take 0/30, obviously you can’t take Domination III.

Swap out empowering mantras for duelist’s discipline if you need a full utility bar and are able to use off-hand pistol, otherwise, mantras is going to mostly be your trait of choice.

I suppose you can’t argue the PvF meta is stale, we’re always getting brand new bads coming along.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I agree. If they want to make people clear Arah instead of skip it, they should make the mobs in Arah more profitable. As soon as those mobs drop better loot, doing Arah also becomes more fun. Kind of like how mobs in Underworld dropped ectos, and mobs in FoW dropped Obsidian Shards back in GW1.

What? Arah isn’t fun anyway?

The risen elites have fun, interesting mechanics, and bosses like Balthazar, Lupicus, Alphard and Shoggroth add varying mechanics too, Alphard and Lupicus being my favourite by a mile because of the such small room for error.

But guess what? Casuals don’t run it. Interesting mob mechanics are too hard.

Fire phantasm, forget about it, that’s its role.

It doesn’t survive just as well, you’re just flat out lying.

Well if you want to clear the spider room of Arah p2, be my guest.

need a tl;dr

Stop using longbow/shortbow then you’ll begin to stop being useless.

You want sword/offhand

Robert.4197:

The guy that accused me of not doing enough DPS was the first to die. I’m pretty sure he was in zerker gear. Anyway, whatever, I think zerkers are bad and zerkers think PVT players are bad. Who’s right? Who’s wrong? I don’t know but if a zerker is lying on the ground dead, how much DPS is he contributing to the team? If he’s such a bad player and that is why he’s dying, than zerker gear is not for him. So in this case being zerker can actually make a dungeon run take longer.

A zerker can be in full defeated state for a fair amount of time before a PVT/Cleric’s DPS catches up.

NoTrigger.8396:

Aedil.1296:

Gw2 combat is amazing, no more trinity, everyone can do anything (is not ture but…lemme continue).
But, why remove the trinity to force everyone just go zerker?
Need more focus on supporters roles imho, and balance the dmg between classes (tone down war gs hunder blades or buff all the other classes as u like)
I kinda have enough to been asked to switch to war all the time, i don’t like war playstyle. Seriously. Thanks.

just because bads tell you warrior 100 swag es #1 huehuehue, it doesnt mean it is true.
tbh 100b is bad dps compared to pure axe or the dps of other professions.

Hundred blades is around ~10% better DPS than axe auto, but if you don’t use it as part of the proper rotation (so … GS auto spam + HB off cd) then your DPS will drop below just camping axe.

Kravick.4906:

maxinion.8396:

Too many rangers using bows and too many rangers that cannot control pets. If I was seeing spotter and frost spirit around, I would be ecstatic, but I have literally never run into a pug ranger using those

If I am not mistaken (I could very well be, I’m not well versed with rangers), I think the reason you don’t see them is because spirits are in the defense tree, and with the current “Everyone go balls to the wall max DPS!” meta when it comes to dungeons, it would be like a warrior putting points into Tactics or Defense and calling it a DPS build.

My god you really do have no idea what you’re talking about.

A 7%+ DPS increase is always worth traiting for, it’s why the meta DPS ranger build includes it.

Strange, I duo’d this a couple hours ago. And guess why (didn’t take us many attempts actually) we died each time? I got sloppy with my reflect. Place your reflect directly on her and you can just dps uninterrupted. The pull has both an animation and sound effect too do it’s very clearly choreographed.

I don’t think you understand. They didn’t dodge the entire run. Tanky players physically do not need to dodge.

Somebody please beat some sense in to this guy.

Rangers played properly are always a delight to have. The fact that almost all of them are bearbows is what creates a stigma, however. Then again I hate pugs of every class, tank guards and shout heal warriors included.

Auto attack is where most dps comes from if you knew how to play. And I’ve compared auto attacks and burst skills, and while warrior dps pulls ahead by about 1.5k with auto, guardian burst destroys warrior burst, unless we bring in wall whirlwind, in which case things even out a lot more, but that’s not always possible, while sitting in a hitbox and getting a full whirling wrath is always possible, even on asura character enemies. And I told them I don’t have engis, necros or rangers to test on, if you want to claim I’m full of it then whatever, but while I’ve actually tested the numbers myself, you have just been making baseless claims. Maybe tomorrow I can ask someone to buff me might, fury etc. and I can test full skill rotations on veterans.

Eles cleave, mesmers cleave, guards cleave, rangers cleave etc etc. I’ve already given you numbers now stop crying. Guardian sw/f + gs combat rotations will wipe the floor with warriors. Lightning hammer and staff eles have great dps, rangers have sword auto giving them solid cleave, mesmers have good sustained dps.

ANet explicitly stated that this game won’t have dedicated tanks and healers. Argue “play how you like” all you want, but these people are trying to stick a triangle in to a circle by trying to tank or heal.

Stacking is not exploiting.

Do you know how many times I’ve done AC and scrubs don’t pay attention to Kholer, get pulled in and melt to daggerstorm?

Have you tried stacking Alphard? Pugs die. Experienced players chain reflects.

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

mahariel.4981:

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

It’s the same mentality about WvW except WvW is a dynamic game type while PvE will continue to be static. Your fight with a zerg all the way down to a 1v1 will never be the same while the boss fight with Lupi will ALWAYS be the same, unless Anet makes a change to it. SPvP will always be different as well because your opponents are not on some cheese script. Ok, I’m fighting this warrior, he’s about to go phase 2 so I should expect him to pop bull’s charge, frenzy, and 100B me. Dodge!

I’d be glad to see how well a PvE carebear does in WvW. Probably like that thief a few posts up that somehow spent 100G+ on upgrades and repairs but never came back. If he spent the time to learn, he would get a grasp on how WvW works and then his encounters would never repeat themselves.

This PvE carebear joined a WvW guild, took part in guild raids and busted blobs.

So how about we go and see your Lupicus solo? You know, since it’s faceroll.

I have a terrible solo on my youtube profile without food, oil, stacks, proper rotations and I was lagging almost the entire time, so clearly it’s faceroll amirite?

Are you trying to prove the point that 1 player can beat a boss in PvE dungeon, built to challenge 5 players, lacking food, oil, stacks, executes proper rotations and lagging the entire time and still wins?

I think you basically answered your own question. When you know the phases, do you call it a challenge or a faceroll? If I knew how a player would react to every move I do, would you call it a challenge or a faceroll?

Props to you, you beat the scripted boss. If there wasn’t phases to Lupicus or any boss for that matter and it was all RNG and you never knew what to expect or who he would mostly be targeting then it would be a different story.

Still waiting for your solo video, broski.

Unless… there’s actually challenge? Just how there’s challenge in WvW? Sure, I didn’t find it overly skill intensive, but there are clearly challenging elements to it.

It makes me laugh when people say how faceroll it is but they’ve probably never left AC and COF, and probably don’t even run full berserker, and even if they do, they probably don’t even do it properly.

Or how about ANet don’t add more content that tears casual players in half, which the speed clearers will just treat as a speedbump and for them to stop annoying people with puzzle mechanics and obnoxious patches with changes nobody asked for?

15%+ damage modifier and eviscerating for extra endurance? I assure you, adrenaline is very important.

rogerwilko.6895:

mahariel.4981:

So I just did some quick testing

My greatsword chain did a total of 3,448 DPS
My axe chain did a total of 3,780 DPS.

I logged my guard and dealt the following:
2,916 DPS with sword autoattack chain
3,402 with greatsword autoattack chain.

Also, all weapons used are capable of cleave. So warrior DPS isn’t as overpowered as you think it is.

now do some tests with:
Ranger
Necro
Engineer

good luck.

If I had them, sure. But I don’t.

I thought we’d all moved on from warrior QQ, but it seems I’m just going to have to paste my posts every time someone cries about hundred blades being OP.

What I find funny is how it’s the PVT bads who are saying “zerk makes PvE faceroll QQ pls nerf” but what they don’t understand is that most zerkers are also bads using subpar rotations, utilities and weapons and have a poor understanding of encounters and faceplant themselves, getting carried by the experienced zerker. I’ve taken part in a number of “zerk only”, “exp only”, “melee lupicus” pugs, watched them all die and then finished him off myself.

The fact of the matter is, zerker IS high risk, high reward. If you try playing zerker like a scrub in Arah, you’ll just die. If you try scrubbing in CoF p1, using whirling axe and camping greatsword, your DPS carries you despite it sucking.

The tl;dr is – zerker does not need nerfing. Bad zerkers die. Good zerkers succeed. Risk. Reward. It’s right there.

Now if you would all stop watching speed videos or reading dungeon forum chat about how we all obliterate everything since we’re playing with likeminded individuals, you’d realise it’s a small minority who can blitz content in berserker, and your average pug zerk is just some casual bad trying to “fit in” with his “OP” zerk warrior despite their DPS being utterly average.

Inimicus.7162:

Wanna make it suck to zerk? More like teq, more like the tower of nightmares, more trash like undead in Arah, more snares, more immobilize, triple (or more) the mob density everywhere and BOOM! U CANT HAZ ZERK DO NOT PASS GO DO NOT COLLECT $200.

But seriously.. nothing will wipe out a mob of zerkers like an uncritable condition spammer with even more conditions caused by environment effects AKA Teq and Tower of Nightmares.

I agree though that the core mechanics of aggro, dps and other things need to remain as they are, and these changes be focused only on SOME new content in the future. Another step to properly dumb down the zerk fest would be to add more closed doors between bosses in instances, I know everyone hates this, but closing those doors and forcing people to deal with the things that do damage exactly as the OP said bosses should, will force people to take off the zerk for a few minutes to deal with things that require that extra bit of time, force you to pick your focus and accept that there will be some damage you’re just not going to be able to dodge out of.
For the above, fight mobs in arah in zerk gear vs something a bit more balanced (as opposed to just skipping past them willy-nilly as all the kids not worth a pack of kools do). This is where the closed doors and forced encounters will wear down the number of leet zerkers vs the ones who actually have enough skill to get away with it.

Honestly, I don’t want to see the “DPS is king of PvE” meta go away entirely, but if the dev’s so chose, the mechanics to make it happen already exist, and there are design features like forcing people to deal with mobs and not just run past them from boss to boss. These things exist, but nobody runs them because the balance of loot also needs to be shifted.

Said balance: The final dungeon reward box needs to contain less than 50% of the total loot for the dungeon… more like 30% or less, and the rest needs to be distributed such that skipping anything means a massive reduction in the quality of the overall run (skipping kholer in AC cause he doesn’t drop epic? nothing a shot at asc weapon/armor box wont fix) etc…

So yes, plenty of other things they can do to kill off zerking noobness without changing overall mechanics, and without punishing people who are actually good enough at what they do to NOT put anything towards defense.

Yes, please make all of the dungeons like Arah.

I love doing Arah, and pugs are terrible at it because their PVT can’t soak up Lupicus or Alphard’s attacks.

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

It’s the same mentality about WvW except WvW is a dynamic game type while PvE will continue to be static. Your fight with a zerg all the way down to a 1v1 will never be the same while the boss fight with Lupi will ALWAYS be the same, unless Anet makes a change to it. SPvP will always be different as well because your opponents are not on some cheese script. Ok, I’m fighting this warrior, he’s about to go phase 2 so I should expect him to pop bull’s charge, frenzy, and 100B me. Dodge!

I’d be glad to see how well a PvE carebear does in WvW. Probably like that thief a few posts up that somehow spent 100G+ on upgrades and repairs but never came back. If he spent the time to learn, he would get a grasp on how WvW works and then his encounters would never repeat themselves.

This PvE carebear joined a WvW guild, took part in guild raids and busted blobs.

So how about we go and see your Lupicus solo? You know, since it’s faceroll.

I have a terrible solo on my youtube profile without food, oil, stacks, proper rotations and I was lagging almost the entire time, so clearly it’s faceroll amirite?

Because one person has the skill to solo Lupi naked means PvE is mind numbing?

I know Lupicus like the back of my hand but I still can’t solo him consistently, would be nice to see these WvW kids have a crack at it themselves and then tell us all how easy PvE is.

You are only good as your competition is and the current iteration of pve is very very simple. There is a reason why zerker are seen as free kills in pvp while they are good in pve.

Then please tell me why there’s such a wide skill gap between a majority of the dungeon forum regulars and your average pug?

I’ve completed Arah p2 in ~12 1/2 minutes and Arah p3 in ~9 minutes, what about your average pug?

It’s entirely wrong. People don’t play pvt because they “can’t actively mitigate”.

Then please give an alternate reason.

This entire thought process is completely irrational. Having full PVT armor doesn’t mean a thing if you still don’t know how to dodge. I’ve been in parties where all the zerkers couldn’t dodge a kitten thing and died within 30 seconds yet the one person in PVT armor dodged all the heavy hitting skills, and ended up surviving long enough to kill the boss solo (4 minutes). Armor sets do not equal skill, and if they did we could reverse the thought process easily. The reverse would be that zerker players are so bad that they have to zerk because they don’t know how to play well enough to actually survive longer than 30 seconds.

If they were dodging all of the hard hitting skills then why wear PVT?

Yeah it’s happening more and more frequently. I’m not sure if there’s an influx of bad players or what but if if players can’t even survive 1 or 2 hits from a normal mob, I think it’s time for a gear change. As far as being a bad player because I run PVT, well, I admit I’m not the greatest player in the world but I’m usually alive after everyone else is dead. Also, I do not join groups that post zerker or fast runs, I start my own group but maybe my mistake is I don’t post casual or something similar. Sometimes I do post 80’s only because I’ve been in some bad runs where anyone less than 80 just can’t survive and brings the rest of the group down.

Now this is a perfectly reasonable opinion I can accept. “Yeah, I run PVT because maybe my reflexes aren’t as good as zerkers, but I tend to survive longer than most of them”. Maybe you should write “no rude people”, and then if you get a zerker telling you to get good just boot them because they clearly don’t fit the criteria of your group (that criteria being no rude people, not the negative implication everyone on here would jump on me for).

Because they can’t be healers or tanks, yes.

Funnily enough, ANet said we aren’t having dedicated healers or tanks. Yet people keep trying to stick the trinity cube in to the GW2 triangle slot.

a t s e.9614:

Are you stacked against the wall? No!> kick the elem and replace with a warrior.

You’re not funny.