Guild Wars 2

Does anyone else find it amusing that while Logan seems to get by far the most flack out of any of DE, he’s the most useful in terms of actual gameplay?

None of the other members of DE actually DO anything of note in the entire campaign or dungeon other than wack a few enemies with their paper machete weapons.

Logan at least is shown, again in game, to be a powerful enough Guardian to tank Gaheron Baelfire indefinitely.

No one else in DE does anything on that scale within the actual game, which to me is where the burden of story has to stay.

Found some more human tech, several of the turrets outside different Pact bases have the “barrel” turret design seen in Caudecus Manor.

“Outfought with the power of beings calling themselves gods. Without that direct power the Humans are a rather weak and pathetic race, as 250 years has shown.”

They are still one of the five “major” races of Tyria, far above the still tribal Grawl, Hylek, and even the Tengu exiles. This after losing two kingdoms, fighting an extended war the Charr, White Mantle, Mursaat and helping to cast down Abbadon. Let’s give a little credit here so we don’t sound too crazy.

“The fact Humans had to use power given to them by beings calling themselves gods pissed the Charr off, not that they were outfought. Hence why some of the Charr looked towards their own false gods. Once the playing field was even the Flame Legion caused the Searing and again taught the Human’s how weak they really are.”

Your bias here is almost laughable. So mass murder and killing of civilians is justified to “teach someone a lesson”? If the Charr had launched a simple war of conquest to retake their land, that would be one thing. But they didn’t. It’s funny you accuse humans of hiding behind the gods, when that’s exactly what the Charr did when they used the Cauldron of Searing and worshipped the Titans. They wouldn’t have defeated Ascalon, let alone Kryta or Orr without that aid.

T"he act of the Searing itself was not a regrettable act for the Charr, nor should it be. It was a magical retaliation for a magical war waged against them. Fighting fire with fire."

Let’s just say I’m glad you’re not involved in any foreign policy. Nuking a population center is horrible enough. But the Charr not only invaded Ascalon, they threw children into gladiatorial slave arenas to fight for the death for their amusement. It was disgusting, immoral, and totally unjustifiable.

“Letting the Flame Legion and false gods control them, now that is a regrettable choice.”

The other Legions aren’t absolved of guilt just because the Flame legion called the shots. They had no problem conquering and burning all that opposed them so long as they were winning. But then humans killed the gods of the Charr, which they to this day deny, and kick started a revolution in their own order.

The righteousness of the Charr has been horribly overestated by a few lore articles, while dozens of examples of brutality and conquest seen within the games themselves are all but ignored.

Humans aren’t blameless, but let’s be fair here when assigning blame over who was a kitten to who.

“I cheered when the seering happened in prophecies.”

Then you really don’t understand the lore that the Charr were conquering jerks well before humans ever declared war on them. They enslaved the grawl and tried to wipe out the Forgotten too.

What really burned the Charr was they were outfought, simple as that.

Also, I don’t see how you could possibly be in support of the slaughter of thousands of civilians, which the Charr did without mercy even after the initial Searing.

They also invaded Orr and Kryta, land that was certainly NOT theirs.

But people will always favorite their pet races I guess.

The alliance against the Dragons is a temporary thing from the perspective of the Legions. Charr like General Almorra are the exception.

When the Legions don’t have an enemy to unite them anymore, they WILL declare war on other races eventually. They have no interest in coexistence, only expansion of their sphere of influence, violently. You can hear this from dozens of NPCs, teaching their cubs that they are the ‘superior’ race, destined to rule, some even talk about attacking the Quaggans.

I like the wildcard theory. I’m looking forward to some powerful use of magic that doesn’t result in self destruction of a Kingdom though. :p

Stuff like the Hounds of Balthazar, Avatar of Melandru and Reaper of Grenth are all awesome. I just wish we got to see more magic usage of that kind from some of the game’s elite NPCs. Protecting a group of necromancers while they summon a giant undead ally, or using Storm Caller again or another artifact from the Pre Searing would all make for really fun events I think.

Seeing as how magic is supposedly one of the last few “ace in the holes” for the humans living on the Tyrian continent, I was surprised that more open, grand displays weren’t used in the war against Zhaitan. Queen Jennah for instance was capable of illusions on a massive scale, as was Koro Sagewind during the defense of Ebonhawke. Human Necromancers such as Galrath have enormous magical reserves and can literally create whole armies. And human undead spirits seem to be amongst the most virulent in Tyria, though their power seems to come from different sources (The Vizer, Shiro, Palawa Joko and Mad King Thom).

It’s easy to see in the Pact for instance Charr technology, Asuran weapons and power generation, and Slyvari undead resilience. Humans however seem suspiciously absent from making a grand impression other than contributing soldiers and supplies, large though they are.

I don’t believe for a second the absence of the Six Gods, or even their Treachery should Anet go the cliche story route, would deprive humans of magic. If the Charr can scrounge together Effigies and firestorms out of Titan scraps, surely humans can do the same.

Now that the first campaign, is out and the other races have had their chance to make their mark, what can we expect next from humans as the war against the Elder Dragons escalates? The best I can think of at this point is the reforging of Magdaer, a human crafted weapon, and possibly using Foefire against one of the Elder Dragons.

So no one wants Grenth armor ever again? :p

Not trying to be quote-unquote, entitled about this, but I would like a chance to get the armor I have legitimately earned by having access to a Temple of Grenth that isn’t broken. Even if it’s contested, that’s fine. I just want a chance to do the event legitimately.

Farming Tactician Footi’s phase. :\

I have enough karma for my set, lv 80, and I can’t get my armor. Not because of skill or teamwork, but because the only way to acquire the armor is broken.

It sounds like a good idea Anet, big player groups working together to unlock armor rewards. However, people are kitten, they will always be kitten, and because of that sad fact it is stupid to tie events into a method of gaining unique armor.

Right now, there is an army of bots farming tactician Footi’s event phase on Fort Aspenwood server. There is no NPC in sight, and the quest chain cannot progress. EVER.

Seeing as how the roving bot herds haven’t had so much of a dent put it them, it means I’m effectively locked out of end game content I did all the work of accomplishing legitimately. All because an armor-smith NPC isn’t made available as a permanent merchant.

This isn’t a question of skill, or timing, or luck, it’s a fundamental flaw in the way Temple armor is purchased. I have the karma, I have the lv 80 requirement, I have the skill to reach the Temple. The fact that the Temple vendor is not available is because people are deliberately exploiting, and breaking, your game.

This sucks, and you need to fix it.

Thank you for listening, I have enjoyed the rest of the game very much

I’ve noticed that NPCs vary greatly in strength. In some missions, they’re useless. In others, three or four of them can drop minions and tank champions all on their own.

Very interesting Jeff! If you know or had to speculate, what part of the Airship design came from human technology?

Also a good catch on the glowly blue vines, that’s definitely Slyvari.

I’d love to see future content that shows off how the different races combine their differing areas of expertise against the Dragons.

First of all, Wikipedia is not credible in it of itself as a source.

A Mary Sue is a type of fanfiction character, self inserted into a story, that has everyone love them, always succeeds, and in general is completely out of place in the story.

I’m not going to argue semantics, nor am I going to refute every last instance of T-Paine’s supposed glory hogging. I am going to post some images that show in the personal story, post T, you get an incredible amount of respect.

http://i.imgur.com/u5i1K.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2ZBZ0.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/oWt4G.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lLZEe.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/aj2EI.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/oUs9Y.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/IyrKG.jpg

I could go on, I have about another dozen or so examples, but that will have to do for now.

You feel what you feel about the personal story quest change. I can’t change your mind about that. But I believe my moutains out of molehills analogy still stands. Your personal character gets an incredible amount of respect from the most powerful people in Tyria.

Didn’t read the book, but I know the summary. I’m going based on the game which in theory should be a higher canon anyway. And again, the Dungeons are mostly DE being a bunch of spoiled children. The exception would be the final dungeon, and the Citadel of Flame since Logan and Rytlock do team up to take out Gaelron. The rest of DE in their dungeons are simply consumed by personal vendettas that have no bearing on the war with the Dragons.

Again, I feel like I’m being kind to DE. I don’t think they’re hateful individuals, but as a group of champions, they come up hilariously short.

Pretty much, I’d argue there are a few instances where your PC comes up short, mostly during the “can’t save everyone” missions, but other than that…

I was trying to nail down the design asthetics from each race in the very multicultral Pact military fortress and weapons.

The basic core of the Airship seems to be Charr, the weapons Asuran, and the human contribution seems to be either the propulsion or the balloons themselves.

For Fort Trinity, the secondary turrets are Charr, the power source and lasers are Asuran, and humans seem to be in charge of running the logistics train to keep the fort supplied.

Anything I missed? I don’t see much of a Slyvari or Norn influence on many of the designs.

That’s not what a Sue is, at all.

A Sue is someone who fixes every problem, does everything by themself, is constantly saving the ‘real’ heroes, and whom everyone, unquestionably, adores.

THAT is a Sue.

A Sue is not a competent leader who asks their subordinates for advice and suggestions, a Sue does not need the help of others to accomplish anything.

In no shape, model or form can T-Paine be considered a Sue.

Your definition is just wrong. Many characters can be unlikeable, or despised and not be Sues.

It’s pretty clear each weapon has a racial esthetic. The one handed sword looks Slyvari. The two handed sword, shield and mace have human wing and orb motifs. The rifle looks Charr, one of the undersea weapon is Krait, etc.

Again, I just don’t see any evidence for this in game beyond a few comments from peasants who don’t know the whole story.

Humans have infrastructure production, a functional professional military and a moderate amount of safety within the walls of Divinity’s Reach. They’re on par with the other races, and far above the tribal ones. Hyperbole from Anet aside, the humans aren’t in that bad of a situation tactically. If Divinity’s Reach gets obliterated by an Elder Dragon strike, that would be a game changer, but humans are quite resilient and haven’t given up yet.

The Norns you come to find have been totally driven from their ancestral homes and have no greater plan for dealing with the Dragons than forging some good l33t gear and throwing their champions at them.

Humans on the other hand are one of the three designers of the Pact Airships.

That’s taking a molehill and making it into a mountain if you ask me.

Again, where is tree-bro stealing your thunder? Bad memes aside? Because just about every compliment he gets, you get two.

Right, so Destiny’s Edge.

I am aware of Ghosts of Ascalon, but never read it. I came into Guild Wars 2 free of forums, Beta and books.

My initial reaction:

THESE yahoos are the folks who are supposed to save the world?

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t hate any of DE personally, maybe Rytlock. But nothing they do, in the entire game, lead me to believe they’re even half as effective as my player character.

I’ve seen Logan get dumped on endlessly for returning to save Jennah from the Branded. That was rough, but understandable. However, the responsibility of the failure to kill big K was solely on Eir, she was the squad leader, she thought they could do it, she authorized the strike. I’m going purely by game information here. The responsibility of the chain of command was hers alone. In personality, he’s fairly happy go lucky in the human storyline. Which means he irrates me the least along with…

Caithe, the only one who takes the Dragon seriously. While her personal baggage isn’t very interesting, at the least she cares about the Dragons and actually, you know, doing something instead of sulking in the Iron Citadel or trading love notes with the Queen.

Rytlock is a sociopathic idiot, and all things I hate in a Charr. Perhaps he gets more development from a Charr POV but his attitude exemplifies what I hate about their race. They never take responsibility for anything, and they never admit they were wrong. Rytlock danced on the graves of Ascalonians and it sounds like given a chance, he would perform the Searing all over again. There are other Charr who I feel are infinitely more heroic than Rytlock. General Almorra, Tybalt Leftpaw, Charr who left the mindless conquest of the Legions to help other races and their people. Rytlock is the past with his dumb human prejudices and refusal to look beyond the Legions.

Eir is just… Eir. She has guilt about failing the team as leader, perhaps rightfully so. I like that she’s not the traditional, “LET ME SING TALES OF MY GREAT HUNTING VICTORY WOLF WOLF BEAR” Norn. But she seems like a Debbie Downer.

For all of Zojja’s brilliance, she has the emotional maturity of a child. And once again demonstrations the unprofessional-ism of DE. The world is at stake and rather than accept that casualties are a part of war, she refuses to get back out on the frontlines.

Hopefully now that DE is back together they can do some actually inspiring feats. As it stands, my characters has defeated just as many Dragon champions as they have, been on the strike that killed Zhaitan just like them, and did ALL of the heavy lifting creating the Pact, protecting the Human/Charr treaty, leading military strikes against Zhaitan, gathering allies, and invading Orr while the rest of DE sulked like children. Those kids playing DE in Lion’s Arch nailed it.

As of now, DE. I am unimpressed. Hopefully they’ll actually show us next expansion why they’re the great heroes of the world. As of now, I personally have done more to defeat the Elder Dragons than they have, and that’s pretty sad.

Claw Island and Fort Trinity were both amazing. Much better in intensity and scale than anything in GW1.

I was surprised by how much I liked the vision mission with the Pale Tree. The otherworldliness of it all was well executed.

For the Vigil, I loved holding the line with the Ebon Vanguard against the Charr renegades with Forgal, that REALLY felt like a victory you were never able to accomplish before. In GW1, you kill the Charr’s gods, but you never finish your fight with them. Here, it felt like you were closing the book on the Ascalon/Charr war. As a Ascalonian vet, that felt pretty dang good.

A good point, and one I wish was emphasized by Anet a bit more. Humans have made tremendous sacrifices for the good of all races. There are evil humans, history is often tragic, but in the end hundreds and thousands of humans banded together to save the world from at least a half dozen major threats, and lost their influence and power as a result. Very Elf like in nobility.

In a way, I like that. I DON’T like how Anet has not-so-subtly pushed forth the idea, “lol, humans are boring and old news, play a Charr or Asura instead!”

I know a marketing line when I hear it. The last page in my “hero’s hand book” from Eye of the North was a blatant, “Yeah, humans aren’t so cool anymore” RIGHT AFTER the defeat of a general of Primordus.

Yeah Anet, we get it. You like the new races. That’s cool, some of us still like humans, and from the population census it seems new players are still overwhelmingly picking humans as the majority of their characters. So much for promotions!

I know it sounds like I’m being a tad bitter, but there’s plenty of room in the sun for ALL of the races to shine. There’s no need to bring down humanity to elevate the other races. Let them earn the street cred like humans did and are continuing to do in Guild Wars 2.

I think the opinion has been made quite vocal! :p No danger of Anet missing the point. I’m simply saying the evidence isn’t really there to support the idea that tree-bro is a Mary Sue. A term that has really lost all meaning from overuse.

If you need a quick refresher on how important your character was during the Claw Island campaign. Watch here.

2:00

8:27 on

“It’s the Warmaster, we’re saved!”

“Hail Warmaster! Good to see you!”

“Praise Wolf that you’re here Warmaster!”

“Warmaster! By the Alchemist’s Twisted Cogs!”

Later, A Norn herald praises you, an honor guard salutes you heading into battle, and after the fight, each Order does the same.

I can’t account for personal taste, but if it was any more blatant these soldiers would be making ME out to be a Gary Stu.

This was really a highlight of my personal story. As you charge to the front lines, each of the soldiers view you like Roland, or Hector or Beowulf taking to the field. The tide has turned, because you’re there.

I can’t help but think there’s a bit of circular thinking going on here. Trahearne sucks because he sucks? Why? Where is he stealing your thunder? Specifically what lines of dialog? What battles? All I’m hearing is generalities and “lol tree jesus”.

Ed, the other races are definitely stretched, even the proud Charr. Not only does each faction have their own, “destabilizing” element (flame legion, inquest, nightmare etc), you hear rumblings and discontent from each as well.

Some Norn wonder if they’ll ever retake their homeland, the hugely warlike Charr are stretched over too many battlefields, took a direct hit from the Dragon Brand, and are losing troops at a steady rate, the Slyvari are bogged down with undead. The Asura are under the least pressure, but if anything every went wrong with the Asura gates… (and we KNOW Elder dragons can mess with them on some level from Fort Trinity) well, they wouldn’t last long.

So, while humans have certainly lost power and influence, the other races aren’t quite as stable as they boast.

Don’t agree at all, some of the most fun I’ve had in GW2 has been from non-combat activities.

The combat is great, but that’s not ALL there is to GW2.

And while the personal quest wasn’t some new evolution in story telling, I enjoyed it a lot and had fun. That’s the most important thing right?

It’s been reduced to be sure, but even then you find a substantial military presence throughout Kryta. They may complain about being, “hard pressed” but so are the Slyvari, Charr, Norn and Asura.

It’s more of a flavor thing, but you do get totally separate missions. I’d say it’s worth careful consideration.

I chose the Vigil and don’t regret it. I wish I could do Whisper spy missions too, but you do get several more opportunities to assist/lead other Orders in their missions later on.

I can’t speak for others, but as a human guardian the personal story has been quite easy with only a few road bumps here and there.

I finished both instances of Claw Island solo, and on the first try with no checkpoints, and no walkthrough. I wasn’t over-leveled for either instance.

I can say that if you’re fighting more than five enemies or two champions at the same time, you’re doing something wrong. You’re either out of position or over agroing mobs. In the instances where you have to fight a dozen or so warriors, you usually have a dozen or NPCs you can use as meatshields while you nuke down the mobs with AOE.

I hate to say it, but it could just be that you need more practice at kiting/evading. That or you’re not changing your build/weapons to manage enemies effectively.

Trahearne is set up as a scholar who has spent 25 years researching the undead. He’s not a great warrior, but he’s respected for his expertise.

Claw Island is attacked and Zhaitan is slowed, but not stopped, your Order alone isn’t going to cut it anymore. Note that you get ALL the credit for slowing the hordes at Claw Island.

The three Orders are paralyzed by distrust, anyone who thinks this is ,‘unrealistic’ has never heard of the trouble of uniting rival factions. Look at Laurence of Arabia trying to unite disparate peoples to fight the Ottomans, or the CIA rivaling the FBI. That to me was completely plausible.

You go see the Pale tree and see a vision of the future. Trahearne isn’t glory hungry, and doesn’t really want the responsibly of forming and leading the Pact. You are the close friend who advises him to step up to the plate, for the good of Tyria. Again, you ARE influencing history.

All throughout your personal story, you are the hero getting stuff done.

Why people want to be FDR calling the shots and not General Patton out on the front lines is beyond me. Every major battle Trahearne is involved in is a MAJOR assault that is unavoidable. Even then, he only takes point on a few occasions to PROVE to the Pact he has what it takes to be a leader. All of the Orders doubt him, and you are the confidant who helps them take Trahearne seriously.

So yes, Trahearne does get credit for accomplishing some big stuff. Guess what?

So. Do. You.

When you retake Claw Island, I don’t see the besieged armies crying Trahearne! Trahearne! I hear them saying, "It’s the Warmaster! NOW we have a chance!’

Basically, I think this whole Trahearne hijacked my personal story stuff is a load of rubbish based on what we actually see in the story. It’s not even remotely close to Kormir in my opinion.

The reports of mankind’s “near extinction” are greatly exaggerated.

First of all, Kryta is functional with a decent army, although it’s been bogged down dealing with the Centaurs.

Second, Ebonhawke withstood 250 year of Charr attacks, I don’t care what anyone says, that’s not the act of a ‘dying’ race.

Cantha hasn’t been revealed yet, and while the xenophobic government isn’t really a good thing, humans on Cantha likely control the most powerful empire in the hemisphere.

If anyone has cause to be near ‘extinction’, it’s the Norn. Driven into exile, no modern infrastructure, no strategic plan beyond “get a bunch of heroes and throw them at the dragons.”

GW1 is heavily instanced based, and not technically an MMO in the traditional sense. You can have no more than 8 players active at a time in any group. As I said, I have played other MMOs, but not on a long term basis. Guild Wars and City of Heroes are the only ones I can say I’ve enjoyed. In general I stick with single player games. I hate dungeon raid crap, five hour task forces, and grinding. I avoid them like the plague.

I’m really at a total loss as to how Trahearne has been hyped into this horrible character that somehow ruins the accomplishments of the player.

That wasn’t my experience at all, even as a human guardian.

Nope.

1. Trahearne is not nearly as ‘over shadowing’ as you’re making him out to be. He’s a scholar and political figurehead, you’re the champion. As this complaint is everywhere, I point you to retaking Claw Island, one of the MOST important battles in the war. Every soldier there on the frontline ISN’T crying Trahearne Trahearne! They’re calling for YOU, the Warmaster.

1. I’d love for an opportunity as a human to smash the Flame legion’s face in for what they did to Ascalon. That’s not gonna happen though. Why? Because the story is about defeating Zhaitan. Do you seriously think the Norns will be safe as long as a single Elder Dragon still stands? Zhaitan is the first name to be crossed off the list, he won’t be the last.

1. Your complaint about picking your battles is silly. Each Order has drastically different missions available to them.

It sounds like you want Dragon Age, not an MMO that let’s you pick some key story moments. It’s not fair to judge GW2 by those standards.

Okay, the meat and potatoes.

Personal story.

My primary character is a human guardian, I don’t have any other race past level 5 or so. First of all, I’ve very impressed an MMO even attempted to have a branching mission system, and for the most part, I think it works.

The only real story complaint I have is the general vagueness behind what you’ll be doing when you join an Order. I don’t mean their methods, I meant what they’re actually working on. I nearly went Order of Whispers until I found out in the Vigil you were involved in helping Ebonhawke put down Charr renegades. That sold me right there, but I never would have picked it had I not known in advance.

Trahearne, the monkey on the back of discussion is… really not that big of a deal. I’ve heard soooo many complaints that he’s out to ‘steal’ the player’s thunder, when all he really is is a figure to rally behind. He’s not the greatest warrior and admits that. I’ve heard many claim he comes out of nowhere in the story for non Sylvari, and he really doesn’t anymore so than your Vigil mentor, or Logan, or anything else. The pacing to his reveal as the Order’s unifier happens over the space of six or so missions. That’s not “rushed” even by GW1 standards. He’s an honestly reluctant tree dude and your hero is the one that gives him the push he needs. As brought up in several missions, the other Orders DON’T suddenly all weak in the knees when he takes leadership control of the pact. They have serious doubts. This is not what a Mary Sue is.

Putting an MMO hero at the zenith of power of a political structure is restricting not only to the story but to the player as well. If you notice, Trahearne is only involved in a few major battles with the Dragon’s minions. You’re the champion out on the front lines, something I feel best personified during the recapture of Claw Island. The soldiers there aren’t clamoring for Trahearne, they’re clamoring for YOU. To use another comparison, Commander Shepard isn’t a big shot Admiral or power player, but he’s the biggest BA in the galaxy. In your personal story, the other Orders are counting on you to come through, and morale improves on whatever battlefield you show up on. That’s pretty dang, “personal” to me.

Destiny’s Edge. Soon to come.

Hey folks, first time post here, long time GW1 player. The funny thing is… I don’t play MMOs. World of Warcraft never tempted me for a second, and City of Heroes was fun, but I despised the subscription model.

Guild Wars was something special, an online game I could play at my own pace. I was part of a Guild but eventually left, striking out to solo content which I loved.

All this sounds like a traditional lead up to, GW2 sucks right?

Wrong.

Guild Wars 2 is a great game, and absolutely the most fun I’ve ever had in an MMO.

First of all, the art and world building of Guild Wars. As a casual project, every time I saw an awesome, jaw dropping piece of Guild Wars art, I saved it to a USB drive. That drive now has… around 400 pieces of art and getting bigger whenever Anet releases something new. It is everything glorious, cheesy and fun about high fantasy smashed together on an anvil of awesome. I make no claims that GW is a paragon of story telling, but I have grown attached the world over the past few years. I hate what the Charr did to Ascalon’s people, and seeing Ebonhawke still standing after 250 years of war filled my old Prophecies nostalgia with pride.

I love that Tyria has evolved. The Elder Dragons and their minions are well designed and fun to fight. I love the great efforts that have been made on keeping continuity relatively solid.

Second, the no subscription model. I loved in then, and I loved it now. I probably wouldn’t be playing if it wasn’t subscription free. I buy it, I own it, that’s how I feel about it.

Third, the combat is amazingly, amazingly fun. I feel like GW2 could have been a legitimate single player game if it had been retooled in some general areas. I can’t comment on others experience, but for me, combat has been fun with a minimum of frustration.

My next post will be on the highs and lows of the personal story, since I’ve seen that aspect been criticized most harshly, and somewhat unfairly in my view (and look, I know my Grenth from my Kormir if you get my drift). But I’m having a blast, and adventuring in Tyria is the most fun I’ve had online all year.