Guild Wars 2

DivineBeing.2086:

And you’re assuming everyone agrees that the dungeons are horrible.

Do you see his point now? It has always been true that people are more likely to criticize than to praise. That is just how it is. So what you see on the forums doesn’t necessarily correlate to what is believed by the whole.

Actually, there was no such assumption in my post, but I’ll leave it at that, as it was an understandably easy counter to grasp at.

As I stated in my previous post, there are people still doing dungeons out of enjoyment. You’ve related some of your experiences with such players. I will relate to you some of mine. My friends have quit playing Guild Wars 2, because dungeons are boring for them to do. The large PvE/PvP guild I joined have mostly PvPers left playing the game. The members are still there, but those that PvE’d have stopped coming on due to their dislike of the dungeon system.

I repeat. If you disagree with the contents of a post, feel free to argue. However, assuming that Arena Net will eventually learn about and fix everything on their own, telling people to stop being dramatic and being so negative, and asking them to just quit if they don’t like Guild Wars 2 or any other game helps no one.

Games don’t get great instantly. There’s a lot of give and take between the developers and the community. And when you field everything with, “It’s fine. Everything’s fine,” developers won’t find it necessary to make any changes, but you might really have been thinking, “It’s fine. They’ll get around to fixing the problems I have eventually.”

I have stated that I only have a problem with the dungeons (for more specifics, read my other posts). Let me ask you: Do you think everything is perfect?

If the answer is, “No, there are small things that I would like changed,” then state them. Help the developers make Guild Wars 2 a game you can play for years to come.

BrunoBRS.5178:

i just think that some people are exaggerating by making it sound like dungeons murdered their babies and that not a single soul likes them. i have my criticisms towards dungeons, but they’re pretty solid as a whole. on all games, there will always be parts you’ve enjoyed more and parts you’ve enjoyed less, sometimes parts you haven’t enjoyed at all.

picking another game with big focus on dungeons, zelda has plenty of them, and some you may like, some you may not, but you shouldn’t act like all of them are bad because a few of them were kinda boring.

You are assuming that others agree with you that dungeons are pretty solid as a whole. Some people actually do feel like all the dungeons are not very good, at least compared to other parts of the game or other games.

There are a couple of good dungeons, but for the most part, the rest are uninspired. They lack the polish of the other features you find in Guild Wars 2. It feels like a few of them were designed very well, and the rest were thrown together. Monsters here. Boss there. Give boss X ability. Done. Oh, and throw in some silly nonsense about one of the bosses is about to end the world with some devious plan after the fact.

I highly recommend Guild Wars 2 for most everything but the dungeons. For dungeons and rewards, I am turning to other games. That is my honest opinion. Oh, and their balancing things for PvP at the expense of PvE balance bothers me a bit, but that can be put on the back burner due to the fact that I am done with PvE anyway.

BrunoBRS.5178:

of course you hear a lot of people complaining, they’re the only people that will say anything. the vocal minority always sounds louder than the quiet, content majority.

now i won’t pretend that there aren’t some flaws with dungeons, and that some paths are boring, but there will always, no matter what game, be people trying to figure out ways to do the most stuff with the least effort, and once those methods become widely known, other people won’t want to be left behind and will follow suit.

I’ve heard that argument on Final Fantasy XIV, SW:TOR, and Diablo 3 forums as well when there were things that bugged players enough to give up on the title.

There are a lot of players who are happy playing Guild Wars 2, but there are also a lot of unhappy players who want Guild Wars 2 to do well and provide constructive feedback for the developers to help turn Guild Wars 2 into something many different types of players will enjoy.

If you don’t disagree with a post, don’t get in their way. You can assume that developers will get on things, but sometimes, they see things or fix things too late, and everyone’s already moved onto the next big thing.

Getting players to try your game for a month or two is the easy part. Keeping them is another thing entirely. This might make players sound fickle. It’s because they are fickle. And you might be thinking, “Well, we don’t want those players anyway,” but with players comes funding for content.

You might believe that you’re helping by keeping the forums positive, but you’re only quieting honest feedback. It’s not like reading your post will make people who have problems with Guild Wars 2 not have problems with the game. It just makes them leave unnoticed by developers, and that is partly what got the other big titles in the rut they are finding themselves in.

@They

That… is not how the more successful companies work, and even if they did work that way, publishers of free-to-play games would not work any differently.

It sounds as if you are incredibly biased, but all developers make games to make money (and to follow their dreams, sometimes). Free-to-play developers are no different.

You make your character, get your first non-starter medium armor piece, and wear coats until you die.

The dungeon system has a lot of potential due to the combat system. The dungeons do not really capitalize on the amazing combat system to provide a unique Guild Wars 2 dungeon experience.

Here, you have a great combat system, and you are pit against groups of monsters and bosses that have abilities and simply spam them over and over. It lacks structure, and I don’t mean 100% scripted encounters. A little structure is nice and makes encounters feel unique. Too much structure makes fights boring and repetitive after running the dungeon multiple times.

I’m sure it isn’t simple, but I feel like it’s one of the most basic feature of MMOs.

It seems weird to be such a problem.

If you want to do things your way, find other people who share your views. From the looks of this thread, there are many who want to clear everything.

Currently, there is no incentive for clearing everything, so people don’t do it. Those people feel that dungeons are tedious as it is, so they only want to get the reward—which is all… at the end… now.

There was one group that killed the first boss by using the safe spot in TA. I am melee, so I did not find this to be enjoyable. I thanked them for the group afterwards and found another group.

People will almost always find the most efficient route to their goals, provided the route does not conflict with their personal morals and values. Everyone plays for a different reason. Forcing everyone to play a certain way—like the Diminishing Returns system—is a poor excuse of an answer.

Although, this does not mean I approve of bosses not working properly. Arena Net should actually fix those.

Kudos if you do the dungeons for the content. I did them for the equipment. Someone asked, “What do these people do after they’ve farmed what they wanted?” Mists of Pandaria, Dark Souls, Borderlands 2, Vindictus—at least until Guild Wars 2 dungeons are on par with the other features of the game.

I’m rooting for Guild Wars 2, but their dungeons are simply not as nice as in other games. Just the dungeons. Not the combat system.

That implies the people who don’t find dungeons enjoyable are just the ones who can’t complete them.

Well, I give up.

They don’t even need a LFG system, like WoW’s, to automatically put us into groups. Having the LFG icon put you on a global list that allows you to say what dungeon, what dungeon type, and possibly what dungeon path you wanted to do would be all that’s needed.

The problem we currently have is that Guild Wars 2 is very new and Arena Net is having trouble fine-tuning. They did an amazing job in creating all these systems, but when it comes to balancing and fine-tuning, they’ve been overdoing things, or, in some cases, not doing enough.

It’s easy for us to say Story Mode should be accessible to everyone and train them to survive Explorable and there should be various difficulties of Explorables—including extremely difficult ones—to satisfy all types of players. In actuality, it’s a very difficult thing for Arena Net to do at the moment, because they suck at balancing right now.

It’s sad. I’m sure they’ll come into their stride a few months from now, though.

Most console games are trinity-free; some Action RPGs, some RPGs, and some MMOs (Vindictus) are, as well.

It comes down to balance. It’s much harder to balance eight classes with a large variety of abilities. The games in the list that I just made have the advantage of having fewer skill combinations and class combinations—most of the time—and the developers have a better grasp on the overall strength of the player(s) at the time of an encounter.

Guild Wars 2 has to balance around PvP, which makes PvE balance all over the place. Professions are, for the most part, in the same ballpark, but we have on way of knowing for sure without parses. And I have a distinct feeling that Arena Net did not do very extensive testing on group compositions and failed to gauge strengths and weaknesses before balancing their dungeons.

The result is players having very different experiences. Some find dungeons too hard. Some find them too easy. Individual player mindset makes a difference, but most players admit to balance being all over the place by relating their experiences. Many have recounted that they were doing a dungeon and found a boss or encounter impossible, wanting to report their experience as bugged. And then they switched things up and the boss or encounter became a breeze.

Impossibly difficult and cringe-worthily easy by changing a few skills around. I commend all of us for finding the correct skills to make Guild Wars 2 dungeons the cakewalks they can be, but that doesn’t say much about the dungeons’ balance.

I don’t want to run the risk of Arena Net watering down the encounters so that any skill combination can beat any boss, because the general response would be that that would be trivializing the content. No one wants that. Don’t do that. That’s the easy route to designing a no-Trinity game.

The much harder task you’ll want to take on is balancing and fine-tuning everything so that everything, despite all your possible variables, is perfect. Enjoy.

Gear does make a pretty big difference. The more gear you have, the more mistakes you can make. The less gear you have, the more you have to know a dungeon and the less forgiving it is to you.

When I was first doing dungeons, I had to be at my 100%. Now that I’m in exotics, I can phone it in, do more damage than others, and not die as often (and yes, I can tell damage by looking at the rate at which health bars go down).

Yes, you can enjoy the combat system if you adapt, because it’s a very good combat system. I personally love the combat system. I am usually a healer in games, but I am fine with not being able to heal. I would want to if they were to ever make it viable, but I respect their design decision.

In general, the dungeons, however, lack the polish found in the other parts of Guild Wars 2. They are poorly designed in the way that encounters are all over the place. There’s no fluidity, for lack of a better word on my part. You don’t feel anything while running them. They’re just instanced areas with monsters, boss, monsters. Some areas have dynamic events or things you have to do, which breaks up the monotony. But for the most part, the dungeons are very crudely designed.

Maybe I’m asking for too much, but I believe good dungeon design can make players feel excited or apprehensive or anything. As it stands, the Guild Wars 2 dungeons just have the feeling like you’re farming. Get past this. Kill this boss. Get reward. Next. It all feels generic.

There are some bosses and events and encounters that I do like. The last boss of Sorrow’s Embrace was a nice flashback for me of Sorrow’s Furnace. If they made more bosses like that and made them challenging, I would love dungeons. Right now, I feel like most bosses and dungeons are unmemorable.

To tie it in with the original topic, no-Trinity games have a harder time making interesting bosses or dungeons, because you have to balance and account for every group composition. This prevents you from doing certain things and implementing some interesting mechanics. It’s not impossible. You just have to be better at balancing bosses, monsters, and dungeons.

I’m sure Arena Net knew what they were getting into when they decided to not force players to be tanks, healers, or dps, but I feel like they did not put in the work to make dungeons their own and work well with their system.

It’s not about adapting and not sucking. There are pros and cons to both systems.

I’ve seen some games make the Trinity system interesting with encounters that require a lot of movement and have a lot of things going on. I’ve also seen some games make the no-Trinity system work. They too can be extremely fun and challenging. Heck, almost all console games can be good and have never heard of the Trinity.

Guild Wars 2 dungeons, as they are now, have a ways to go. Can you honestly take a look at the dungeons and say they are well-designed and have been painstakingly crafted to be the pinnacle of the no-Trinity system? If you can, I feel sorry for you, because you lack imagination—or at least the experience of games that do it well.

The system is not new. Stop making excuses for it. It can be better. A lot better. I’ve expected great things from Guild Wars 2 and have not been disappointed, except with the dungeons. If you make a no-Trinity system to get rid of the need for designated tanks/healers/dps, you should expect to spend a lot of time balancing numbers and encounters to perfection. Because in a no-Trinity system, if things aren’t well-balanced, the content feels like it’s slipshod and haphazardly thrown together.

And don’t give me that crap about it my needing to L2P. I’ve completed them most of them. I’ve streamlined some of them as Mesmer. I know my class, I know my abilities, and I still think dungeons could be a lot better.

This post makes me sound angry, so HAPPY FACE. :]

Interesting encounters can be designed using both systems.

It’s just much harder to balance games that don’t have the trinity. As you can see on the forums, everyone has very different experiences in dungeons.

It can be done. Arena Net just has to work much harder than the developers of trinity-based games. I’m sure they’re starting to realize that now.

The balance in GW1 was much better.

Things were difficult, but you would know when to expect it. When I was going through Prophecies with my friend, the missions slowly got harder and harder. At one point, we couldn’t progress any further without grouping with strangers, so we decided it was a good game but not for us due to the amount of time needed (I came back when HoM rewards were released and stomped everything with 7 heroes). And that’s fine.

The nice thing about GW1 was that it slowly prepared you for the difficulties ahead. It trained you. You weren’t surprised when you hit a wall. You knew, at the very least subconsciously, that it was coming. That’s the way I want Guild Wars 2 dungeons to be.

As it stands, a lot of people are disgruntled. Dungeons are too hard for players who are less skilled, dungeons are too easy for people who are, and there’s not a lot of middle ground.

That’s a problem.

I like that game companies are developing more and more content for casual players. It means I have to grind less to get the things that I might want and were out of reach before.

This doesn’t mean I dislike grind, because I did still farm an armor set despite the broken DR system. I just don’t mind if things were made faster, so that I could enjoy other aspects.

I also enjoy games due to a close-knit group of friends, and they do not like grind. So when they don’t play, I am less likely to as well.

I can understand how such games might be less appealing to those who would like their accomplishments and achievements within a game to mean something, but I kind of grew past that. Games come and go. There’s always a new shiny to get. While I do get a kick out of being able to say, “I did XYZ way back when,” who cares?

If you like challenging, there’s always challenging content. You can even self-impose challenges. If you want everyone to see and play games the way you do, you’re being a bit selfish.

I don’t see a problem with having some things for top tier players—and actually, it’s necessary—, but things should be balanced in a way so that no one is excluded. This doesn’t mean that developers should balance everything for everyone. It means that they should balance in a way to provide each type of player with their own comfortable niche.

Yeah, but you could also apply that argument to the “loud majority” comment.

Whenever someone disagrees with you, you can just call them the loud majority, inflicting terrible, terrible change on the game.

The “majority” is now an insult. It used to mean, “most people.”

The way I see it: Dungeons would be boring if the bosses were boring.

If an easy boss has interesting mechanics, I will have fun.
If a hard boss has interesting mechanics, I will have fun and feel more accomplished for beating the boss.

You also have to take into account that, when I say hard, I mean requiring more perfect execution and not requiring more time spent smashing it.

By balance, I think people—or at least I—mean that dungeons should be more consistent in their difficulty. Encounters shouldn’t be all over the place. Hard trash pull, then an easy boss. A hard boss that takes a lot of coordination, then a boss that requires no effort to kill.

If you wanted to defend the design, you could call the system quirky to keep you on your toes, but I don’t see rhyme or reason to their balancing. It just looks like they didn’t.

The games were fun first. Challenging second. There’s a fundamental difference between games that are fun but hard as hell and games that are just made hard in hopes that people will find fun in them. Guild Wars 2 is the latter.

I can only assume that most of your enjoyment came from the fact that you could do them and others could not, not because they were fun in themselves.

If they were fun encounters and dungeons in themselves, you would still enjoy doing them. You’d just feel like they ended too quickly, due to how easy they were.

I could do them before, and even though they’re easier, I still don’t find them enjoyable.

I think that most people would not mind if the dungeons were made hard AFTER they were made fun. I’m sorry, but Guild Wars 2 dungeons are not new and interesting. Unless you haven’t played many MMOs or video games, you know this to be true, even if just subconsciously.

I would rather they take their time and release a bug-free patch. Don’t rush them.

The past two Monday patches were busts. If we can’t have quality and speed, I am going to go with quality.

Take your time, Arena Net. I’m almost 90!

CoE and Arah are fine.

The other dungeons are lackluster, however. Which is a shame, because I really like their settings.

Settings, not layouts.

I had friends that played Guild Wars 2 once.

A lot of trash pulls are harder than bosses.

It’s kind of funny. And by funny, I mean sad and a little depressing.

Four hounds? Way harder than most of the bosses in Twilight Arbor.

Welcome to Free-to-Play.

While there are many nice people, there are way more not-so-nice people. You could say it’s just the internet and would probably be right, but F2P games generally have some of the worst people. I attribute this to them not caring as much because of the lack of subscription, but I also realize that F2P games are especially attractive to younger audiences.

This isn’t to say that all younger people are awful, but even those who might be offended by my comment have to admit that their age group has some unsavory elements.

My advice is to find a good guild.

And, yes, I understand that Guild Wars 2 has a entry fee and is, technically, not free. Pretty darn close, though.

Jiminy.8340:

I’m advocating a promotion for the man. I, and many members of my guild, enjoy the difficulty and the longer term aspect of dungeons. Kudos Anet!

Let’s not get ahead of ourselves.

Probably by applying and doing a good job in Guild Wars 1.

Guild Wars 2 dungeons feel a lot like Guild Wars 1 dungeons, so I assume the content development team focused on making veteran Guild Wars 1 players happy.

As Guild Wars 2 has more of a following than Guild Wars 1, it’s hard to please everyone. There’s no need for personal attacks. It demeans what the rest of us are trying to accomplish in our posts to incite change.

Be cool, man. Be cool.

They can do better.

These dungeons are designed under the pretense that difficulty is what makes things fun and interesting. This is a mistake. Boss fights, map layouts, and monster encounters that are fun and interesting make dungeons fun and interesting. And when you finally throw in difficulty to make it feel like you’ve accomplished something by completing the dungeon, it becomes perfect.

It’s fine if you enjoy dungeons as they currently are, but Arena Net can do better. They’ve made an amazing game so far. The dungeons can be a lot more interesting.

And there we have the Diablo 3 effect.

If the gem market were their primary reason for the DR system, they kind of messed things up for themselves by making dungeons not enjoyable for a lot of people as the majority just hit 80.

Happy customers have looser wallets.

I don’t think Riot is their main competitor. lol

They have much bigger to worry about.

Oh. I can do the dungeons.

I just believe the game should do a better job about bridging the skill gap.

They said dungeons aren’t for everyone, but it wouldn’t hurt them and us to help less experienced gamers learn the mechanics necessary to be successful in said dungeons.

I don’t think the vast majority wants to waltz in and do nothing and still get things. I’m sure everyone’s doing their best, but the best of a person who is not naturally gifted or practiced in video games is not the same as the best of a person who jumps from new title to new title.

Dungeons need to either come in a variety of difficulties to help players transition into the more challenging—and, hopefully, more rewarding—dungeons, or the game needs to do a better job of providing challenges throughout the leveling process that encourage players to experiment with their other skills.

It might sound stupid for some of you, but this is because you lack empathy. Not everything can be solved by you telling others, “L2P.” It’s funny the first few times, sure, but it just makes you a kitten after a while. Don’t be that guy.

A little something something would encourage me to help people out.

I am a very helpful person and like to help whenever I can. I also like dungeons. I love grouping. But when these dungeons take an upwards of an hour or two, I am hesitant to volunteer all the time. Especially when I get nothing out of it.

You heard me. I think of myself too. I will help if it’s something small, but when a lot of people ask for help in 1-2 hour dungeons, I would not mind getting a prize at the end. Think of it as me valuing my time.

There are various bugs in TA, but the things that you listed aren’t it.

The safe spot on the first boss where ranged can essentially solo the boss without being targeted. Several bosses regaining health while you fight them due to their trying to reset. The last boss’ ground target skill does not do damage. NPCs bugging out after the initial pull and letting you single pull them sometimes. The second wave of spiders not spawning in the room before the boss that turns into a spider at 25-50%.

Most dungeons have a list like this. Deal with it. Arena Net is too busy implementing the diminishing returns system to fix anything else at the moment.

I agree that Story Modes rewarding tokens would be a good idea.

It would have to be less than Explorable modes to promote people doing Explorables, but it shouldn’t be trivial either. You spend a lot of time in Story Modes, and they are quite possibly as hard if not sometimes harder than Explorable.

Vast oversight.

I’m sure it’ll be fixed in the future—eventually.

I believe there’s a suggestion section of the forums for things such as this.

And no. Stop forcing people to play your way. If you don’t like how a group runs things, leave. That is what I do.

The current system makes sense if you are balancing purely for exploiters and farmers and are ignoring the enjoyment of regular players.

Token. Guild Wars 2 was always advertised as a game that you could approach in any way you wanted, outside of exploiting.

The leveling process is extremely open. You can do a lot of things to level, and it felt like an adventure. You could literally step out your front door and wander around and level at a decent rate.

Then you get to 80 and might want to do dungeons. And instead of a system on par with the amazing leveling system or WvW system, etc, you have very primitively designed dungeons with bosses that aren’t so much as interesting most of the time but have high health and damage. In spite of this, players liked armor sets enough to farm a dungeon 50-100 times. I didn’t mind. I like grouping with people.

But, instead of fixing the exploits found and all the bugs that you see in dungeons, Arena Net decides to add a diminishing returns system to combat exploiting. Instead of fixing exploits, which is what developers normally do, they implemented a system that affects everyone, based on arbitrary rules about how dungeons should be run.

Upon implementing this system, it introduces bugs. It simply isn’t working. So, instead of working around the clock to fix it, they leave the system in for a week. They patch it on Monday. The patch is not successful and introduces more bugs. They leave the broken system in for another week.

Do you see how people could start becoming fed up with a company that, frankly, most people, including myself, loved at release? I am fond of Arena Net, but this experience has kind of ruined their image for me.

Many companies nowadays have chosen to actively combat exploiters, botters, and farmers and seem to have lost sight of making the experience fun for the normal player. I have no love for the the aforementioned groups—other than the normal players, I mean—but I would rather a game focus on people having fun than market balance.

It sounds selfish, but it’s true. Diablo 3 focused on market balance, and they made changes that made me leave. And I LOVED Diablo 2. In spite of their recent efforts to restore Diablo 3 to what it should have been, I don’t find myself returning to it, because the magic is lost.

Because of a lot of this dungeon badness—and I love dungeons and grouping—, the magic of Guild Wars 2 is starting to dwindle as well.

No, you aren’t the only one.

I would say it’s working properly for a good amount of players. Unfortunately, it’s also not working properly for a good amount of players.

MoA is good for areas that require stability, but you don’t have anyone to provide it. Instead of giving everyone stability to prevent them from being knocked down to kill a monster faster, you use MoA on the monster so that your party isn’t being knocked down and is able to focus the monster down more quickly.

And, yes. I agree. Currently, there are people who feel like dungeons are easy to execute, because they’ve already learned all the mechanics and ins and outs of the dungeons. There are also people on the other side of the spectrum who feel dungeons are impossible, because they don’t know the encounters. It also does not help that they are grouping with others who do not know the encounters as well.

Some people have taken it upon themselves to ferry players from inexperience regarding dungeons to being experienced at them. The majority, though—having already attained their dungeon prowess—, simply look down upon others who have trouble.

There’s no middle ground. You either know them, or you don’t. And, in order to know them, you either have to group with someone experienced or kind of run your face into them until you learn. I feel like there should be stepping stone dungeons to encourage new players to learn their professions without racking up huge repair bills in the process. I’m not suggesting anything to do with the repair bills themselves but a variety of difficulties for dungeons.

It would help ease players into the more challenging dungeons.

Though, I still don’t like how these dungeons are designed. Most of the “difficulty” comes from high health and damage. Technically, most bosses are fairly basic. There isn’t much variation in execution. You learn the boss timings and abilities, learn to dodge or survive them, and just beat on them for however long. I guess I’m oversimplifying.

Maybe this is the best we can do for now, until the next big thing.

If they could make heroes work in Guild Wars 2, I think I’d rather have them spend that time, effort, and ingenuity on dungeon and boss design.

I like Arena Net too, but I’m still going to tell them what things can be improved, including how they handle things.

It’s in my best interest, as well as their best interest, to be friendly but also professional. How they handled the implementation of the diminishing returns system was god awful, and I think they realize that as well.

So I’m very happy to hear that they are doing extensive testing on the next patch, and they are going to release on Monday additional information about where they are going to be taking Guild Wars 2 dungeons in the future.

I might come off as harsh, but I really want Guild Wars 2 to succeed. You might argue that Guild Wars 2 is already a success, but the MMO community is fickle—it’s true. Diablo 3 made a few bad decisions with their changes, and people jumped ship ridiculously quickly for a highly anticipated Blizzard title.

Guild Wars 2 can be taken further. Your comments about people being spoiled help no one.

They’re working on making the LFG system more expansive, but some of you should listen to yourselves.

Don’t add or improve upon this feature, because this will happen! Fear mongers.

There is -always- room for improvement.

Hayden

But many aussie gamers are high-school aged kids who abuse eachother over simple mistakes and have egos leaking out of their ears. That means even by luck if i could get a guild who just happened to have the exact same goals as me, it could be an unpleasant experience where as the players over seas in the US etc who i’d like to play with, are in time zones where it’s not often practical for us to play at the same time.

Aw, we love you too.

Probably.

Killing yourself isn’t the answer. Don’t do it.

Yes.

I am pleased to inform you that I need to write 15 letters* for this to actually post.

Broken systems should be fixed immediately or not left in the game until they are.

Ideally, the systems should be tested extensively before being implemented to avoid such problems in the first place. If you can’t test before releasing, you should be putting all your efforts into implementing it successfully. In the long run, it might not seem like it matters, but players have a long memory. They will remember when a company they know and love does stupid things.

A running gag among my friends is saying, “Why does Blizzard hate its customers?” Because this was a post that we found funny. Now, we use it for everything. “Why does NCSoft hate its customers?” “Why does Riot hate its customers?” When Guild Wars 2 came out, we absolutely loved it. It was enough to turn the gag into, “Why does Arena Net love its customers?”

We don’t say that anymore.