Guild Wars 2

Make a dungeon as hard as you want.

Just give me the proper reward for doing it.

More like, I am going to be party leader from now on to hold power over you minions.

While I am vocally against the reward system of dungeons, you can dodge most things.

I think people are having problems, because they’re attempting to react to the visible circles on the ground. But by the time you see the red circle, it’s a bit too late. At that point, you do need ridiculously fast reaction speeds.

However, if you are looking at the attack animations of the enemy or boss, they will have a “tell” that will indicate which move they are doing for you to get out accordingly.

This is coming from a squishy mesmer, who uses primarily melee and has mediocre reaction time.

Dungeons -are- fun. They are definitely worth doing. Each and every one of them. They are worth experiencing. The bosses are worth seeing. The encounters aren’t too interesting, but the new experience makes up for it.

And then you decide that you want to get a set of armor.

That fun and interesting dungeon needs to be done 50+ times. While doing content for content’s sake is understandable on paper, when you do something 50+ times, you want to do it for a reward. I might sound greedy by saying that farming a dungeon 50+ times purely for an armor set is not enough to keep me farming that dungeon, but it isn’t, for me.

The money and experience tipped the balance. 1/50’ish of the tokens I needed, 26 silver, and 180k experience? I’ll take that. And I have been.

Now that I’m almost finished, the system of diminishing returns was added, and my resolve to get the final piece of my set is floundering. I am five runs away, but I’m going to wait until tomorrow.

That might sound downright reasonable, but the problem is that people that want to play are thinking twice about playing. That’s not good.

I thought of suggesting this, but the counterargument is that they want sets to mean something.

Someone in full Kodan gear means that they ran that instance a lot. Someone in full Arah gear means that they ran that instance a lot.

If tokens were shared, as was what I thought to propose, these armor sets would mean nothing. Everyone could get everything by running the easiest dungeons repeatedly until they saved up enough tokens to get the set that comes from the hardest dungeon.

These aren’t necessarily my views. I read somewhere that they designed the token system this way due to wanting armor to signify achievement.

Was this supposed to be the typical MMO grind?

You said it yourself in your original post. You like that Guild Wars is a departure. Are you now admitting that it is not as you say it is?

So you’re not defending your views. You’re just defending your game, for now. It is in your favor, for now, so you will defend it from any angle—even if the angle changes.

How disappointing.

I don’t mind challenge. I like difficult things.

I understand that you should be doing content for content’s sake. And yes, dungeons are enjoyable when you first experience them. They are worth doing. Each and every one of them, even though a lot of them are bugged in some way.

The problem comes when you are to do a dungeon 50+ times. At that point, it’s not doing content for content’s sake. You’ve seen all the bosses. You know what everything does. You know how to approach everything. You are now doing it for the reward.

Arena Net can make all the dungeons harder and more challenging. I will enjoy it. I’ll enjoy them a handful of times. But if I have to do the challenge 50+ times, I want just a bit more incentive than 2 silver and 17k experience.

Those are not exaggerations.

I get that you have had extensive experience in doing tedious things to get gear you want. I’m sure we all have that.

I am curious as to how much experience you’ve had with the current patch. Are you done getting a set? Are you in the process of getting a set? This might help illuminate how we’ve come to very different opinions of how this patch affects us.

15 minute experience spread over an hour, and let’s not forget the 2 silver you get at the end that could be gotten anywhere else in a minute or two without incurring a repair bill that it might not even put a very large dent in.

I understand that he did not mind the changes. His playstyle is supported by the patch, and the patch hurts those that do not share his playstyle.

However, he lost me when he said Guild Wars 2 was a departure from traditional MMOs.

Guild Wars 2 is starting to remind me very much of traditional MMOs, and not the casual WoW types. It is starting to remind me of federal pound you in the … Korean grind MMOs.

I do not like this patch.

I am very close to finishing what I want from Twilight Arbor, and I am choosing to not bother for the time being.

With the current changes, I will be only running the dungeon purely for tokens, because the money and experience isn’t there. While I do need the tokens, I am not willing to grind to that extent for them.

And yes, I have tried running multiple paths. It does not help with the diminishing returns.

I do not mind grinding. I’ve already gotten three of the four pieces of Nightmare that I wanted. However, the patch has made getting tokens from dungeons purely a grind for tokens. This makes the task of getting a set even more tedious than it was already.

Again, I do not mind having to do 50+ runs of a dungeon for a cosmetic set. However, if I get nothing but the set from it, it makes the process even more dull. And no, the drops do not add much to rewards.

A change was needed in CoF. Almost everyone agrees with this.

However, they made a change to how all dungeons and all runs work to address CoF being farmed too easily.

Twilight Arbor is not as easy and not as short, and yet I am feeling the effects of the patch. I even did another path, and it gave me very little reward for my time spent.

The group I did it with had not done this path before, so I led them through it. We approached it as any new group would approach a dungeon. We died on bosses. We took our time. And at the end, even though I had not run that path yet today, I received reduced silver and experience.

1. Reduced rewards for consecutive runs.

False. I had not run this path today. Unless they mean of a dungeon, which is awful, because in order to get one dungeon set, you need to farm two dungeons? That is a STUPID change. I very rarely call developers out on their changes, because I believe they know more than I do. However, I want to finish my Nightmare set. I should not have to go do two dungeons to get a set from one.

Unless you only want me to do Twilight Arbor once a day, which is fine. However, that leads me to play 20-30 minutes a day, and then log out. That seems silly.

2. Reduced rewards for runs within a certain period of time.

False. I ran the second path well after I stopped running the first.

This is funny, because you’re asking for an up in rewards on the same day they nerfed rewards for doing runs, even for non-farm/grinders.

At least before, you got 26 silver and 50-75% of a skill point out of it.

Now, even if you’re grinding non-CoF speedruns for tokens, you get next to nothing after 3-4 runs. 2.60 silver and 18k experience?

While I need 200 more tokens for my chest armor, I am not willing to do a dungeon ONLY for tokens.

I would like to pool together everyone’s experiences with the diminishing returns of the end reward of dungeons to see what it actually is.

I ran Twilight Arbor 3-4 times today.

- First run, I got the normal reward of 26 silver and 140-180k experience? I forget the actual number of the experience.
- Second or third run yielded 10-14 silver and 50-70k experience.
- My last run gave me 2 silver, 60 copper and around 18k experience.

These runs took maybe an hour or two.

When do these diminishing returns reset, if they do at all? Do they reset completely when you do another path or dungeon?

Pretty good.

While everyone has fun in different ways, I am definitely glad I was able to get a majority of my Nightmare set before the diminishing returns patch kicked in.

I just need to get my chestpiece now, and after doing it a couple of times, the rewards are down to 2.6 silver and 17,700 experience. Around there. While I do want the tokens, that is enough diminishing returns to make it not enjoyable.

This was recently added, I believe.

You used to be able to do some silly ferrying with Portal. Now, you have to pay attention, because there’s no range indicator to tell you if the portal will work or not.

Somewhat of a quick fix on their part.

I will settle for the abilities not going on cooldown when you are not in range for it to have any effect.

I think making them persist through enemy deaths would be dumbing the class down to a pet class, but the idea of clones and phantasms lasting an extra 1-2 seconds and able to be shattered in their current location, despite their target being dead, would be good.

Too many times has my target died with me spamming Shatter, hoping that it would Mind Wrack the multiple enemies still present, but I was sadly treated to my clone or phantasm simply disappearing.

Unfortunate, because that made this skill sound useful.

I love the idea of this skill on paper, and even used it despite hating how it works in reality, but le sigh. It’s not that good.